Author Topic: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers  (Read 520177 times)

she came to gensokyo in one of the mangas, so... ;)

ugh, imagine if hecatia was also playable and they'll pair up together, just like they did in LoLK. what a missed opportunity...

if doremy is actually gonna be the only LoLK character in the game, i'll be pissed. LoLK has by far the best cast of characters, why not fuckin' use them?

I feel like not having Hecatia pair up with one of her copies would be a bigger missed opportunity

junko
Hecatia
You forgot about the main theme of the 15.5 incident. I think, the probability of such a powerful beings like Junko and Hecatia being affected by the Perfect Possession is extremely low. Same with the residents of the Lunar Capital.

she came to gensokyo in one of the mangas, so... ;)

ugh, imagine if hecatia was also playable and they'll pair up together, just like they did in LoLK. what a missed opportunity...

if doremy is actually gonna be the only LoLK character in the game, i'll be pissed. LoLK has by far the best cast of characters, why not fuckin' use them?
Junko came to Gensokyo? I only remember her doing that in one of LoLK's endings.

Also I think you should be prepared to be pissed.

OrbOrigin

  • "The galaxy of light is calling me!"
if doremy is actually gonna be the only LoLK character in the game, i'll be pissed. LoLK has by far the best cast of characters, why not fuckin' use them?

If anyone wants another LoLK representatives appear in AoCF, Sagume is the possible candidate to fill the roster. Junko is out of question because she is the one and only final boss in main games who never got a chance to sit down and talk to incident resolvers for 5 minutes or so, thanks to her vengeful nature.

Sagume is the possible candidate to fill the roster
Actually, lunarians are the last ones, who will help resolving Gensokyo's problems.

Touhou 15.5 is the first Touhou game to ever use a newer version of DirectX than 9. More specifically, DirectX11. I hope that with the upcoming Wine 3.0 you will still be able to run Touhou 15.5 on Linux, since it is the first version of Wine with out of the box DirectX11 support.
Not that a signature matters.

#JUNKO4TH15.5

  • 見えない満月
  • [LoLK is best touhou]
okay, y'all are making me doubt queen J is gonna be in the game. ugh. it's annoying how she's gonna be the ONLY stage 6 boss that isn't in a fighter... ZUN needs to get it together.  :wat:
normal 1cc: every game, shitton of times
hard 1cc: legacy of lunatic kingdom
extra: flandre, ran, yukari, mokou, suwako, mamizou, hecatia, okina

CyberAngel

  • Retired
okay, y'all are making me doubt queen J is gonna be in the game. ugh. it's annoying how she's gonna be the ONLY stage 6 boss that isn't in a fighter... ZUN needs to get it together.  :wat:

Eirin, Kaguya and Kanako said hi.

#JUNKO4TH15.5

  • 見えない満月
  • [LoLK is best touhou]
Eirin, Kaguya and Kanako said hi.

and i say bye because kanako is in 12.3, eirin isn't the real final boss of IN, and kaguya was gonna be in 12.3 along with mokou (who made it into a fighter, which means kaguya will soon follow) so neither of them really count!

junko's the one that's truly getting snubbed here. :'(
normal 1cc: every game, shitton of times
hard 1cc: legacy of lunatic kingdom
extra: flandre, ran, yukari, mokou, suwako, mamizou, hecatia, okina

Calm down, 16.5 probs will start a new trilogy of fighters, and anyway remember that the UFO group didn't appear in 12.3.
Je pense, donc je suis.

WishMakers

  • Myouren's IT Guy
  • printf("h*ck");
Quote
junko's the one that's truly getting snubbed here. :'(

Think about the many people that want their favorite character in a fighter but haven't had it.  Think about the people who want PC-98 to return.
Trust me, Junko is not the first character that hasn't made her appearance in a fighter, nor is she the last.  I think you set your expectations too high.

Quote
Touhou 15.5 is the first Touhou game to ever use a newer version of DirectX than 9. More specifically, DirectX11. I hope that with the upcoming Wine 3.0 you will still be able to run Touhou 15.5 on Linux, since it is the first version of Wine with out of the box DirectX11 support.

I would think you would be able to, but any Touhou using newer than DX9 is news to me.  I'm surprised Wine didn't support DX11 until now.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2017, 01:59:49 AM by WishMakers »
Return of Eastern Wonderland! Made by a PC-98 fan FOR fans!
1ccs: SoEW (N), LLS (N), MS (N), EoSD (N, H), PCB (N), IN (N, H), PoFV (N, 5 char), MoF (N), SA (N), UFO (N), TD (N), DDC (N), LoLK (N), HSiFS (E, N, L), WBaWC (N)
Extra: EoSD, PCB, IN, PoFV, MoF, HSiFS, WBaWC
Scoring: HSiFS Easy (PB: 1.1b), Barrage Musical Hard (PB: 28.?b)

(Eiki doesn't count as a final boss). It actually kind of makes sense that ZUN wouldn't use Junko much after her debut. Characters like Remilia and Yuyuko are whimsical enough to get involved in stuff that has nothing to do with them, and all the other final bosses only show up in situations that directly pertain to them (or when their assets are reused from the previous game). Junko, like Eiki, doesn't really have a reason to get involved in any of Gensokyo's politics, and with her one track, Chang'e murdering mindset she doesn't seem like the type to just do stuff for the sake of doing it. Same goes for Sagume. If anyone else from LoLK shows up I'd expect it to be Hecatia, who just plays around, or Clownpiece, who is now a Gensokyo resident. If anyone from LoLK shows up.
My name is Tres. It sounds like "Tray". Tressert is "Tray-zurt"; like Tres dessert.
I've cleared every touhou game on Lunatic, and beaten every extra except SoEW.
NMNB: MoF Hard, SA Extra, UFO Extra

PapilLionesskort

  • "Perfectly Immoral Moral Person"
  • Pretty much just lurking innocently
Um, yes Eiki does. She is the last opponent you face in every scenario but her own, and her battle serves as the climax for the game.  ???
Write or fight, same thing. You might as well come out swinging either way.<3 Just not too hard, as that's no fun.

I often see people ask about Steam netplay support, but... would that change anything?
Sure, the Shift+Tab->Right click->play with him is more convenient than google for a tuto->select "enable UPnP"->send IP, but I read many people talking about the bad Tasofro netcode, how sokuroll need to happen for the HM series, etc. And I read all the hype about potential Steam netplay support because it's on Steam. So I guess people people are hyped because they think Steam netplay support means better networking code. But does Steam netplay support really means better networking code? It's not like a Steam employee will join the Tasofro team and write the netcode for them. They provide an API (https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features/multiplayer/networking), and the developers send and receive bytes using this API. The current Tasofro netcode uses a direct connection between the computers, and the Steam API does the same, it won't magically make the ping disappear. The Steam API doesn't control the game engine, it won't add any rollback. The only thing I can see it do is setting the QoS byte in the IP packet. And maybe recover lost packets, but recovering lost packets is usually something you don't want to do in a real-time game.

Am I wrong? If just using the Steam Networking API is such a life saver, and the game doesn't use it, I could think about adding it in thcrap.

ToyoRai

  • Head But No Tail
  • I am still here. Sometimes.
As much I want Junko to be in the game, I sort of have accepted the fact that she has been forgotten completely. Outside of few "Hey, that game just happened" group shot in the mangas, she hasn't appeared in anything. Heck, she didn't have anything written about her in AFiEU. Only others characters who didn't appear in it from recent games were Seija and Sumireko, and both of them has had time to be in the spotlight outside of their debut games.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2017, 03:52:32 PM by ToyoRai »

I often see people ask about Steam netplay support, but... would that change anything?
Sure, the Shift+Tab->Right click->play with him is more convenient than google for a tuto->select "enable UPnP"->send IP, but I read many people talking about the bad Tasofro netcode, how sokuroll need to happen for the HM series, etc. And I read all the hype about potential Steam netplay support because it's on Steam. So I guess people people are hyped because they think Steam netplay support means better networking code. But does Steam netplay support really means better networking code? It's not like a Steam employee will join the Tasofro team and write the netcode for them. They provide an API (https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features/multiplayer/networking), and the developers send and receive bytes using this API. The current Tasofro netcode uses a direct connection between the computers, and the Steam API does the same, it won't magically make the ping disappear. The Steam API doesn't control the game engine, it won't add any rollback. The only thing I can see it do is setting the QoS byte in the IP packet. And maybe recover lost packets, but recovering lost packets is usually something you don't want to do in a real-time game.

Am I wrong? If just using the Steam Networking API is such a life saver, and the game doesn't use it, I could think about adding it in thcrap.
Probably won't use the steam api. the comiket and steam versions were said by tasofro to be identical and interplayable, and i dunno if steam api works  with non-steam games.
Je pense, donc je suis.

WishMakers

  • Myouren's IT Guy
  • printf("h*ck");
I often see people ask about Steam netplay support, but... would that change anything?
Sure, the Shift+Tab->Right click->play with him is more convenient than google for a tuto->select "enable UPnP"->send IP, but I read many people talking about the bad Tasofro netcode, how sokuroll need to happen for the HM series, etc. And I read all the hype about potential Steam netplay support because it's on Steam. So I guess people people are hyped because they think Steam netplay support means better networking code. But does Steam netplay support really means better networking code? It's not like a Steam employee will join the Tasofro team and write the netcode for them. They provide an API (https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features/multiplayer/networking), and the developers send and receive bytes using this API. The current Tasofro netcode uses a direct connection between the computers, and the Steam API does the same, it won't magically make the ping disappear. The Steam API doesn't control the game engine, it won't add any rollback. The only thing I can see it do is setting the QoS byte in the IP packet. And maybe recover lost packets, but recovering lost packets is usually something you don't want to do in a real-time game.

Am I wrong? If just using the Steam Networking API is such a life saver, and the game doesn't use it, I could think about adding it in thcrap.

Something about HM and ULiL's netcode is just far worse than other games I've played.  I haven't played Soku online much at all so I personally don't recall how much better it is/was.  I'm not 100% that Steam API would fix it, but if it was implemented partially or at least tested (and maybe compared to how the old Tasofro engine was), in theory I think it could be used to improve the netcode at least a little bit.  I'm not sure I expect them to put in that effort, I'm really just hoping it's better than ULiL was, because having better connectivity would make it a lot more accessible.  I recall playing with a friend that was within 10 miles of me and the game running at around 5 fps, and I just don't want to see that kind of bad connection again (I've played PoFV recently with Adonis2 and even THAT was better)
« Last Edit: December 11, 2017, 04:43:38 PM by WishMakers »
Return of Eastern Wonderland! Made by a PC-98 fan FOR fans!
1ccs: SoEW (N), LLS (N), MS (N), EoSD (N, H), PCB (N), IN (N, H), PoFV (N, 5 char), MoF (N), SA (N), UFO (N), TD (N), DDC (N), LoLK (N), HSiFS (E, N, L), WBaWC (N)
Extra: EoSD, PCB, IN, PoFV, MoF, HSiFS, WBaWC
Scoring: HSiFS Easy (PB: 1.1b), Barrage Musical Hard (PB: 28.?b)

#JUNKO4TH15.5

  • 見えない満月
  • [LoLK is best touhou]
As much I want Junko to be in the game, I sort of have accepted the fact that she has been forgotten completely. Outside of few "Hey, that game just happened" group shot in the mangas, she hasn't appeared in anything. Heck, she didn't have anything written about her in AFiEU. Only others characters who didn't appear in it from recent games were Seija and Sumireko, and both of them has had time to be in the spotlight outside of their debut games.

ugh, i need to accept the fact too or else i'll just set myself up for unnecessary disappointment. but maybe the reason that junko hasn't appeared anywhere is because she's making a comeback in this game.  :blush:

honestly tho, i'm hella excited for this game. like, i'm literally counting down the days, the wait is starting to get to me. i've had two dreams about this game so far. 14.5 was AMAZING af, so i can tell that 15.5 is gonna follow in it's footsteps, quality wise. the newer fighters are better than the old ones, IMO. hopeless masquerade gets a lot of flack, but i don't think it's deserved. it's the very first game they made with the aerial engine, so obvious the game won't be perfect... but with urban legend in limbo, they looked at their mistakes from HM and fixed all of them and genuinely made a great game this time. ULiL is my second favorite touhou game with LoLK being the first. so yeah, while ULiL is amazing, i can admit HM isn't perfect, but it's sort of understandable. but overall, the newer fighters are way more enjoyable to me.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2017, 04:59:05 PM by david15 »
normal 1cc: every game, shitton of times
hard 1cc: legacy of lunatic kingdom
extra: flandre, ran, yukari, mokou, suwako, mamizou, hecatia, okina

Lebon14

  • 椛ちゃん、助けてぇぇぇぇぇ!
I recall playing with a friend that was within 10 miles of me and the game running at around 5 fps, and I just don't want to see that kind of bad connection again (I've played PoFV recently with Adonis2 and even THAT was better)

It's because it's devlopped to be played by Japanese playing in Japan with other Japanese. So, the server is in Japan and you play from North America (or wherever you live), the lag is gonna be insane. As much as using Steam's API could alleviate this a bit, I don't see it happening.

It's because it's devlopped to be played by Japanese playing in Japan with other Japanese. So, the server is in Japan and you play from North America (or wherever you live), the lag is gonna be insane. As much as using Steam's API could alleviate this a bit, I don't see it happening.
AFAIK, servers aren't in Japan. There aren't any servers (except for updates check, and maybe for the IP given with "Use UPnP"). Well... actually, the server is the computer of one of the 2 players: the one who selected "Create battle server" in the "VS Network" menu. That's why, when you don't use "Use UPnP", you need to setup port forwarding on your router.

And yeah, I know Steam netplay isn't likely to be built into the game, I was thinking about hacking it into the game. But I feel like it wouldn't change anything. I just don't see how it could change anything, the netcode behind will be the same.

Drake

  • *
I agree. I'm not sure where the assumption came from; I think people just heard Steam has a multiplayer networking API and assume this means magic different netplay implementation.

If anything the lobby/matchmaking capability would be something actually useful.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2017, 12:37:19 AM by Drake »

A Colorful Calculating Creative and Cuddly Crafty Callipygous Clever Commander
- original art by Aiけん | ウサホリ -

Lt Colonel Summers

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • Do not mess with a soldier
So, any speculation on who else might be appearing in AoCF (aside from the ULiL cast, Doremy Sweet and the 2 newhus)?

In my own guess, I decided to narrow down the candidates by factoring in these points (characters that don't meet either one of these criteria are eliminated):
1. Not playable in any previous fighters except ULiL. This eliminates Cirno, Meiling, Patchouli, Sakuya, Remilia, Alice, Youmu, Yuyuko, Yukari, Suika, Iku, Tenshi, Momiji, Aya,, Sanae, Kanako, Suwako and Utsuho.
2. Character has something to do with dreams, possession and/or being ghostly. I don't consider flowers because the "flower" in "Antinomy of Common Flowers" might be metaphorical. This eliminates Rumia, Flandre, Letty, Chen, Ran, Wriggle, Mystia, Keine, Kaguya, Shizuha, Minoriko, Hina, Yamame, Kisume, Parsee, Yuugi, Satori, Kogasa, Nazrin, Shou, Kyouko, Yoshika, Seiga, Wakasagihime, Kagerou, Benben, Yatsuhashi, Seija, Seiran, Ringo, Clownpiece, Sunny, Luna, Star, Akyuu, Tokiko and Rinnosuke.
3. Character is the kind that might be interested in the events of AoCF. This eliminates the Prismrivers, Sagume, Junko, Hecatia, Rei'Sen, Yorihime and Toyohime, but it also puts Kaguya back on the list of possible characters.
4. Character's being present in AoCF should be logical. This eliminates Renko and Maribel.

PC-98 2hus are NOT eliminated, but since ZUN is pretty much ignoring PC-98 by this point, I'll have to assume that they are...

And so, the only characters not eliminated by this point are (in order of debut appearance): Ran, Eirin, Kaguya, Rin, Tojiko and Kosuzu. That's not a lot of candidates, is it?
There's nothing inscribed on the dog tag...

Lebon14

  • 椛ちゃん、助けてぇぇぇぇぇ!
Momiji has never been playable in a fighting game. If she would, she would probably have a portrait, yet, she still doesn't.

I have some problems with the methods of selection, Lt.

Isn't part of the incident that people are being possessed against against their own will? I don't think having interest in the incident will be a factor in if a character shows up or not, they probably won't have any choice in the matter.

Narrowing down characters based on theme falls apart when you remember that ULIL did nothing like that. It was about the occult and urban legends, but none of the new playable characters there other than Sumireko had any thematic ties to that outside of their occult balls.

HM was like this too. It was themed around religion and, i guess emotions? But it included a couple of characters without much relationship to religion, let alone emotions, like Nitori (who's only relationship with religion is being an atheist, which is a very minor part of her character), Mamizou (Who's only there because she was in 10D, and she hangs out with the Buddhists). Plus it strangely left out the Moriyas, despite them being the most obvious choice for a religious themed game. Koishi is a parallel to Kokoro, and fits the emotion themes, so she kinda fits in. A little.

Reisen was playable in a previous fighter, but yet she showed up in ULIL. Why are you assuming it will be different here? Also, Kanako wasn't playable in a fighter, she was just a spellcard.

Just my 0.02. I don't think the second returning character will be based on anything but if ZUN/Twilight Frontier thinks their inclusion would be cool. The only tend i notice in the choice of characters in the fighting games lately, is that they tend to be characters that have showed up in games recently, if not necessarily introduced there. Reisen was just in LOLK before the PS4 version of ULIL. Other then that, it's pretty much a gamble.
My old avatars: Old ass turtle, Unzan - Second and Current Avatar by the talented Aoshi-shi

#JUNKO4TH15.5

  • 見えない満月
  • [LoLK is best touhou]
i have a feeling it might be hatate.
normal 1cc: every game, shitton of times
hard 1cc: legacy of lunatic kingdom
extra: flandre, ran, yukari, mokou, suwako, mamizou, hecatia, okina

Quote from: ZUN
Actually I just forgot about Hatate

(I was also being sarcastic about Eiki not being a final boss.)
My name is Tres. It sounds like "Tray". Tressert is "Tray-zurt"; like Tres dessert.
I've cleared every touhou game on Lunatic, and beaten every extra except SoEW.
NMNB: MoF Hard, SA Extra, UFO Extra

#JUNKO4TH15.5

  • 見えない満月
  • [LoLK is best touhou]
then maybe kaguya? or somebody totally new like iku... nue is also likely.
normal 1cc: every game, shitton of times
hard 1cc: legacy of lunatic kingdom
extra: flandre, ran, yukari, mokou, suwako, mamizou, hecatia, okina

Suwako Moriya

  • Hey you with the pretty face
  • *
  • Welcome to the human race!
'Tater is in Aya's HSiFS ending, so who knows! (It's still not likely.)
The only thing this dimension does well is show its ass. We might as well applaud it! - Albert Burneko

Well, this game happened.

#JUNKO4TH15.5

  • 見えない満月
  • [LoLK is best touhou]
omg wait, maybe eiki appearing isn?t that much of a stretch, because the description of the game says the two final bosses joined forces to become unstoppable... it also says the game is gonna have a ?bittersweet story? about them (the final bosses), so maybe eiki is gonna wanna, like, judge them or smth?

the mystery playable character could be anyone, tbh... i wish they would just announce who it?s gonna be already. when does twilight frontier usually announce stuff like this? i?m assuming we?re gonna find out, like, a week before the game comes out maybe?
normal 1cc: every game, shitton of times
hard 1cc: legacy of lunatic kingdom
extra: flandre, ran, yukari, mokou, suwako, mamizou, hecatia, okina

PK

  • Border of Whatever
omg wait, maybe eiki appearing isn?t that much of a stretch, because the description of the game says the two final bosses joined forces to become unstoppable... it also says the game is gonna have a ?bittersweet story? about them (the final bosses), so maybe eiki is gonna wanna, like, judge them or smth?


Are you sure? My take on the plot premise is that the "strongest two" aren't the final bosses, but the teams trying to stop them since nobody alone could defeat the final boss/bosses (according to the villagers' rumors). Also that the "bittersweet story" is about the teams mistakenly thinking they are themselves the strongest two, not the final bosses.