Author Topic: Official Touhou Project Magazine 2016: w/ Uni Akiyama and ZUN's music CD  (Read 167684 times)

Here's my final version of the chart, for the record: http://imgur.com/a/wKW2N

I'm sure there are still some problems with it, but it's just a fun little side project until the wiki's translation goes up.

Wasn't it already? In CiLR Yuyuko sees a big lunarian banquet and Youmu says "not even you (Yuyuko) could eat that much", meaning that, at least to Youmu's eyes, Yuyuko actually eats a lot.
Not to mention her dialogue in IN.

Youmu's comments on the chart were pretty much just references to Yuyuko's IN dialog anyway.

Tengukami

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Here's my final version of the chart, for the record: http://imgur.com/a/wKW2N

I'm sure there are still some problems with it, but it's just a fun little side project until the wiki's translation goes up.

Excellent stuff. This totally made my morning.

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

PK

  • Border of Whatever
In other magazine news, Vol. 6 of the semi-annual Comiket Plus will commemorate Touhou Project's 20th anniversary. It will publish a special interview with ZUN.
-

Comiket Plus is a magazine primarily aimed at Comiket beginners. Vol. 6 will come out on July 14.
Any news about this one?

_dk

Re: Official Touhou Project Magazine 2016: w/ Uni Akiyama and ZUN's music CD
« Reply #125 on: September 13, 2016, 08:10:42 AM »
The new interview with ZUN and Iruka Unabara (Tasogare Frontier) has been translated. Includes surprisingly frank discussion of how difficult it was to work with each other at first, minor complaints about the finished games, could-have-been characters, quick changes of topics, and ZUN's philosophical ramblings:

https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Strange_Creators_of_Outer_World/Iruka_Unabara_x_ZUN_interview

PK

  • Border of Whatever
Re: Official Touhou Project Magazine 2016: w/ Uni Akiyama and ZUN's music CD
« Reply #126 on: September 13, 2016, 02:08:00 PM »
Quote
The PC version of ULiL is complete by itself, the story ends there. There are no plans to add more stories to that.
(╯?□?)╯︵ ┻━┻

Re: Official Touhou Project Magazine 2016: w/ Uni Akiyama and ZUN's music CD
« Reply #127 on: September 13, 2016, 03:55:18 PM »
(╯?□?)╯︵ ┻━┻

Well, Im done then  \(_ _  ')/

Sophilia

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Re: Official Touhou Project Magazine 2016: w/ Uni Akiyama and ZUN's music CD
« Reply #128 on: September 13, 2016, 03:56:19 PM »
Actually, this intrigues me even more.  If the plot is an entirely new one, but still working within the frame of the urban legends, I'm wondering where they're headed.  More Lunarian trouble?  Youkai Kosuzu?  The long awaited Wriggle appearance?
Life and death are without purpose.  Our attempts to give them one are quite presumptuous of us.  But in the end, we exist, and that is enough.

Current status: Dissuading deliberately choking for imagined fame.

Re: Official Touhou Project Magazine 2016: w/ Uni Akiyama and ZUN's music CD
« Reply #129 on: September 14, 2016, 05:01:51 AM »
(╯?□?)╯︵ ┻━┻
And there you have it, folks. Tasofro figuratively punching everyone who supported them and bought the game right in the gut, face, and wherever else that has nerves and can hurt. Literal sellout and completely contrary to doujin principles. Lock new character, stage, music, story behind a console and call it a day. I really wonder how ZUN sleeps at night knowing this happened. To have his franchise monetized and exploited like this. No, I'm not pissed at the fact that an official touhou game has a console port. If they kept the PC version on parity with the PS4 version nobody would have or need a reason to complain. It's the exclusivity and the obvious cash grab that every fan of the series should be aware of and be at least slightly worried about.

I fear for the future of the touhou doujin scene. I really do.

FearNagae

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Re: Official Touhou Project Magazine 2016: w/ Uni Akiyama and ZUN's music CD
« Reply #130 on: September 14, 2016, 05:23:32 AM »
Can -we- sleep at night knowing that this might happen again in the future? Things are looking really bleak, do people not complain about this? Or do we just have no power to change the decision?

Abandoning the ULiL ship is fine, but man if there's any future release on PS4 the gaming community is done for.

N-Forza

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Re: Official Touhou Project Magazine 2016: w/ Uni Akiyama and ZUN's music CD
« Reply #131 on: September 14, 2016, 07:40:30 AM »
I'm not sure how having console-exclusive features equates to a slap in the face. This isn't exactly a new thing either, since pretty much every other Vita/PS4 port under PlayDoujin has been modified or enhanced in some way compared to the original PC version. Even the release of Bunny Must Die was redone to fit widescreens. Do they need to go back and add that material in for the PC version as well? Genso Wanderer got a new version released at Comiket that mirrors the console release, but that wasn't free because it still required work to adapt the new content.

It's easy to write this all off as being driven by greed but there's probably a lot going on behind the scenes we don't know about, so moaning and groaning about the "future of doujin culture" like this just comes off as entitled. (Protip: no one is forcing devs of Touhou games to go with this against their will). Besides, ZUN has already said he's not going to release a game on the PS4, so there won't be anything remotely official unless it has Tasogare's backing like this.

Also, I'm sure ZUN would sleep well knowing he can provide for his family. I'm not even sure why he needs to feel guilty about breaking totally arbitrary standards. It's not like Comiket or Reitaisai will start to flounder as a result of this flagrant "cash grab". Why not blame Nasu Kinoko for the money drain that is FGO?

I'm not saying "shut up and appreciate what you're getting" but don't assume so much just because you don't like the outcome.

_dk

Re: Official Touhou Project Magazine 2016: w/ Uni Akiyama and ZUN's music CD
« Reply #132 on: September 14, 2016, 07:44:11 AM »
The context for that line, if I didn't make that clear, was about the story as presented on the PC version of ULiL. Iruka is saying the extra PS4 story is not going to be adding to the PC story since that's considered complete. In my opinion, he makes no suggestion about whether the PS4 content will come to the PC version.

Re: Official Touhou Project Magazine 2016: w/ Uni Akiyama and ZUN's music CD
« Reply #133 on: September 14, 2016, 07:50:55 AM »
Actually, this intrigues me even more.  If the plot is an entirely new one, but still working within the frame of the urban legends, I'm wondering where they're headed.  More Lunarian trouble?  Youkai Kosuzu?  The long awaited Wriggle appearance?

You misunderstand. ZUN is saying that the new content wont be on the pc. Only the PS.

Which is FUCKING BULLSHIT.
My old avatars: Old ass turtle, Unzan - Second and Current Avatar by the talented Aoshi-shi

N-Forza

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Re: Official Touhou Project Magazine 2016: w/ Uni Akiyama and ZUN's music CD
« Reply #134 on: September 14, 2016, 08:25:45 AM »
?_(ツ)_/?

FearNagae

  • Hisouten/soku Enthusiast
Re: Official Touhou Project Magazine 2016: w/ Uni Akiyama and ZUN's music CD
« Reply #135 on: September 14, 2016, 08:27:41 AM »
I'm not sure how having console-exclusive features equates to a slap in the face. This isn't exactly a new thing either, since pretty much every other Vita/PS4 port under PlayDoujin has been modified or enhanced in some way compared to the original PC version. Even the release of Bunny Must Die was redone to fit widescreens. Do they need to go back and add that material in for the PC version as well? Genso Wanderer got a new version released at Comiket that mirrors the console release, but that wasn't free because it still required work to adapt the new content.

It's easy to write this all off as being driven by greed but there's probably a lot going on behind the scenes we don't know about, so moaning and groaning about the "future of doujin culture" like this just comes off as entitled. (Protip: no one is forcing devs of Touhou games to go with this against their will). Besides, ZUN has already said he's not going to release a game on the PS4, so there won't be anything remotely official unless it has Tasogare's backing like this.

Also, I'm sure ZUN would sleep well knowing he can provide for his family. I'm not even sure why he needs to feel guilty about breaking totally arbitrary standards. It's not like Comiket or Reitaisai will start to flounder as a result of this flagrant "cash grab". Why not blame Nasu Kinoko for the money drain that is FGO?

I'm not saying "shut up and appreciate what you're getting" but don't assume so much just because you don't like the outcome.

I'm not even calling this anything like greed. This is however very worrying for several communities, including mine. The effect is already there in that nobody even feels like playing ULiL anymore because why would someone play an incomplete abandoned game competitively? A more realistic comparison would be BlazBlue; nobody is really bothered to take seriously anyone who are only playing the outdated games.

Whether ZUN could sleep well or not was not the problem; I'm happy he could net more cash but sacrificing a storyline and character equates to abandoning the PC version of ULiL. The best outcome would obviously to release at both PC and PS4 without abandoning either one.

And I'm not assuming an outcome, I am already witnessing an effect. And I fear the future. In fact ZUN's games are the ones that people probably won't mind being ported to PS4, because they are supposed to be played alone. Tasofro's games are not the same, not everyone has a PS4 and yet we need to play it with someone else who also has a PS4. What are the chances that you and your friend you usually play soku with both has a PS4?

Please do not assume everyone is unhappy he's making more profit. I certainly am glad for it, but the side-effect of this is what I'm concerned. It should have been avoided by not giving PS4 only material, or at least, let us have the character.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2016, 08:42:20 AM by FearNagae »

Leon゠Helsing

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Re: Official Touhou Project Magazine 2016: w/ Uni Akiyama and ZUN's music CD
« Reply #136 on: September 14, 2016, 08:34:39 AM »
The context for that line, if I didn't make that clear, was about the story as presented on the PC version of ULiL. Iruka is saying the extra PS4 story is not going to be adding to the PC story since that's considered complete. In my opinion, he makes no suggestion about whether the PS4 content will come to the PC version.
For all our sakes, I hope it really is a misunderstanding as you said.

N-Forza

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Re: Official Touhou Project Magazine 2016: w/ Uni Akiyama and ZUN's music CD
« Reply #137 on: September 14, 2016, 09:19:09 AM »
I'm not even calling this anything like greed. This is however very worrying for several communities, including mine. The effect is already there in that nobody even feels like playing ULiL anymore because why would someone play an incomplete abandoned game competitively? A more realistic comparison would be BlazBlue; nobody is really bothered to take seriously anyone who are only playing the outdated games.
Why does ZUN/Tasogare have a responsibility to foster a competitive community, particularly in countries their games aren't officially sold in? If you're concerned about playing games just to have a scene, stick to SF5 or Melee. And nothing's stopping you from importing.

Whether ZUN could sleep well or not was not the problem; I'm happy he could net more cash but sacrificing a storyline and character equates to abandoning the PC version of ULiL. The best outcome would obviously to release at both PC and PS4 without abandoning either one.
So how long would they have to wait before you would be OK with them "abandoning" a game? And while it would be nice if they were to transfer the new stuff to PC, that probably takes more effort than is feasible for them at the moment. They're still indie studios for all intents and purposes, so they can't always work on projects in tandem. Maybe they just don't want to announce anything either way until the game is released, for whatever reason. Game dev can be a strange thing.

And I'm not assuming an outcome, I am already witnessing an effect. And I fear the future. In fact ZUN's games are the ones that people probably won't mind being ported to PS4, because they are supposed to be played alone. Tasofro's games are not the same, not everyone has a PS4 and yet we need to play it with someone else who also has a PS4. What are the chances that you and your friend you usually play soku with both has a PS4?
There is no effect because the game isn't even out yet. And I could rephrase that question to say "What are the chances that you and your friend you usually play Monster Hunter with both have a PC?" Remember, they have Japan's market in mind first and foremost, so they have to account for the fact that gaming-capable PCs are much less common than consoles.

Please do not assume everyone is unhappy he's making more profit. I certainly am glad for it, but the side-effect of this is what I'm concerned. It should have been avoided by not giving PS4 only material, or at least, let us have the character.
I was mostly upset that others were calling him greedy, not you. I admit I also think at least adding Reisen to the PC version could be within their purview, but I have no idea what's going on behind the scenes. This perceived exclusivity could even be something stipulated by Sony for all we know.

FearNagae

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Re: Official Touhou Project Magazine 2016: w/ Uni Akiyama and ZUN's music CD
« Reply #138 on: September 14, 2016, 09:51:58 AM »
Why does ZUN/Tasogare have a responsibility to foster a competitive community, particularly in countries their games aren't officially sold in? If you're concerned about playing games just to have a scene, stick to SF5 or Melee. And nothing's stopping you from importing.
I do not have enough information however I recall this is a problem in japan as well. Anyway I am not implying they have the responsiblity to take care of a community. It should be in their interest to keep people from getting pissed, but that is another thing. However assuming people can just move into another game is silly. You can't just tell someone playing X game to play another franchise of the same genre. That's like saying people who are mad at LoL should move to DotA because they're the same anyway.

The problem here is not scene or whatever, but the game is updated and we are locked from the new version. Obviously, I don't see people going to like playing an outdated game.

Quote
So how long would they have to wait before you would be OK with them "abandoning" a game? And while it would be nice if they were to transfer the new stuff to PC, that probably takes more effort than is feasible for them at the moment. They're still indie studios for all intents and purposes, so they can't always work on projects in tandem. Maybe they just don't want to announce anything either way until the game is released, for whatever reason. Game dev can be a strange thing.
Perhaps abandon was not the right word to use. Had they made a soku expansion for PS4, people would still be mad. There's no time limit, that is not the problem.
I sure hope they're just not announcing it and were in doubts.

Quote
There is no effect because the game isn't even out yet. And I could rephrase that question to say "What are the chances that you and your friend you usually play Monster Hunter with both have a PC?" Remember, they have Japan's market in mind first and foremost, so they have to account for the fact that gaming-capable PCs are much less common than consoles.
A single line of confirmation that they had no intention to update the PC version was enough for people to drop the game.
The problem here is we are playing at one console and then both of us are expected to have another console if we want to play the new version. I might have failed to understand the Monster Hunter example but I don't think that is the case.

Quote
I was mostly upset that others were calling him greedy, not you. I admit I also think at least adding Reisen to the PC version could be within their purview, but I have no idea what's going on behind the scenes. This perceived exclusivity could even be something stipulated by Sony for all we know.
It is somewhat inevitable that people would be pissed. Some people bought the game, and now a huge portion of the playerbase doesn't feel like playing it anymore because again, who would willingly play a game that is supposed to be played competitively without even having the latest version? You would be playing a game that you're supposed to play with someone else, but the other players aren't actually playing the same game with you anymore.

An expansion disk would help.

I honestly don't mind not being able to play anyone with the two ULiL CD I have, but man things are looking bleak. The worst part is I could just buy a PS4 and I'd still have no one to play with.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2016, 10:17:22 AM by FearNagae »

Sophilia

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Re: Official Touhou Project Magazine 2016: w/ Uni Akiyama and ZUN's music CD
« Reply #139 on: September 14, 2016, 11:03:02 AM »
Well, from what I'm seeing, it seems kind of clear that they're considering this an entirely separate game from PC ULiL.  It's not like it's just slap in Reisen character and story mode, and move on.  It's its own thing, even though they're retaining the name.
And yeah, I agree that the probable result will be that play moves to the new game. That's just how fighting games are in general.  But to me at least, it seems less of "the other version of Street Fighter with Dan in it," and more "the new Street Fighter game."
In short, keeping the same name has really got us all making some dumb assumptions.
Life and death are without purpose.  Our attempts to give them one are quite presumptuous of us.  But in the end, we exist, and that is enough.

Current status: Dissuading deliberately choking for imagined fame.

Re: Official Touhou Project Magazine 2016: w/ Uni Akiyama and ZUN's music CD
« Reply #140 on: September 14, 2016, 11:29:52 AM »
Well, from what I'm seeing, it seems kind of clear that they're considering this an entirely separate game from PC ULiL.  It's not like it's just slap in Reisen character and story mode, and move on.  It's its own thing, even though they're retaining the name.

But, again, if it still has everything from PC ULiL, then it's still PC ULiL 
Plus the other contents that the PC wont have

PK

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Re: Official Touhou Project Magazine 2016: w/ Uni Akiyama and ZUN's music CD
« Reply #141 on: September 14, 2016, 04:19:40 PM »
The context for that line, if I didn't make that clear, was about the story as presented on the PC version of ULiL. Iruka is saying the extra PS4 story is not going to be adding to the PC story since that's considered complete. In my opinion, he makes no suggestion about whether the PS4 content will come to the PC version.
Ah, that's another way to read it, let's hope you're right then :q

Re: Official Touhou Project Magazine 2016: w/ Uni Akiyama and ZUN's music CD
« Reply #142 on: September 14, 2016, 08:49:37 PM »
I really wonder how ZUN sleeps at night knowing this happened. To have his franchise monetized and exploited like this.

I think ZUN is perfectly aware of what's happening and he's most likely the one that greenlit the "dude let's keep all the new shit in the ps4" idea in the first place. I don't like this any more than you do, but let's not act like ZUN is not involved with it.

Re: Official Touhou Project Magazine 2016: w/ Uni Akiyama and ZUN's music CD
« Reply #143 on: September 14, 2016, 09:48:53 PM »
It's entirely in keeping with ZUN's MO - he'd rather make something new rather than just porting it over to another platform. Which is why he's never felt the need to port his games to console (and he has been asked) or to localise the games. But when Touhou doujin games are coming out in new avenues he does feel the need to have the official games represented (e.g the Playism release of TH14, and its "international" release).

So here we have Touhou games coming out on Playstation, where the conversation will have been something like:

Sony: We'd like to start a programme for doujin games on Playstation, and would like Touhou games to be a part of that.
ZUN: Do I have to do anything?
Sony: Well, you don't have to, but...
ZUN: *Thumbs Up*

But he ultimately does want an official Touhou presence on there, and ULiL is the natural candidate. And there will be new content, because that's what keeps it interesting if additional work is necessary (and it is definitely necessary), but it won't necessarily be backported, because that's boring and there are other things that ZUN (and presumably Tasofro) would rather be doing.

None of which is setting any kind of "precedent", of course. ZUN clearly has no intention of developing primarily for consoles himself, and if Tasofro did then... well, presumably the releases would either be contemporaneous or there would only be one release so there'd be no split. Unless doujin developers started using the comiket release as a staging ground for the later console release, and I can see that backfiring quite quickly.

Sophilia

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Re: Official Touhou Project Magazine 2016: w/ Uni Akiyama and ZUN's music CD
« Reply #144 on: September 14, 2016, 11:10:36 PM »
But, again, if it still has everything from PC ULiL

That's the assumption I was talking about.  When neither ZUN nor his collaborations with Tasofro have ever worked that way, and ZUN has spoken against just reissuing old content many times.
When transitioning from SWR to Soku, within the same engine, it wasn't just adding in the new girls.  Spells were replaced, the old stories were left in the old game, bosses had a different mechanic, and the deck system itself was retooled.
Even within this interview, they talk about stratifying the games with different mechanics and gameplay, so the player can play what appeals to them.
So when ZUN follows up with "it won't just be a simple port," and "There's a chance you won't understand it without playing LoLK," I don't think he's just talking about the Reisen stuff.  In short, expect some big changes.
Life and death are without purpose.  Our attempts to give them one are quite presumptuous of us.  But in the end, we exist, and that is enough.

Current status: Dissuading deliberately choking for imagined fame.

Re: Official Touhou Project Magazine 2016: w/ Uni Akiyama and ZUN's music CD
« Reply #145 on: September 15, 2016, 07:23:40 AM »
When he says ULiL is "complete" on the PC he's clearly talking about the story. In other words, Sumireko's storyline is complete and Reisen's PS4 story isn't a direct continuation of that. Which is basically saying you don't need to buy the PS4 version to have a complete version of the game. Reisen's storyline will be a weird standalone thing like Hisoutensoku, and you won't be missing any part of ULiL by not playing it. That's all he was saying.

Re: Official Touhou Project Magazine 2016: w/ Uni Akiyama and ZUN's music CD
« Reply #146 on: September 15, 2016, 01:29:16 PM »
When he says ULiL is "complete" on the PC he's clearly talking about the story. In other words, Sumireko's storyline is complete and Reisen's PS4 story isn't a direct continuation of that. Which is basically saying you don't need to buy the PS4 version to have a complete version of the game. Reisen's storyline will be a weird standalone thing like Hisoutensoku, and you won't be missing any part of ULiL by not playing it. That's all he was saying.

Which doesnt solve the issue: If one still want to experience the new contents, they'll basicly have to move to another platform, or go suicide watch
And dont compare it to Soku, it's nothing like that at all (With Soku at least you can still get to play the thing without spending extra money for a cash-grab console)

Re: Official Touhou Project Magazine 2016: w/ Uni Akiyama and ZUN's music CD
« Reply #147 on: September 16, 2016, 05:26:57 AM »
Touhou has always been split up onto lots of different things. If you want to follow all the manga and whatnot, you'd need to subscribe to at least three different magazines.

As for Hisoutensoku, I was comparing the story content but apparently you don't actually care about the story? So what are you complaining about? If you really absolutely must see the story, but can't afford a PS4, then you can just watch an LP on youtube or something. Like practically every other game in existence. Heck, the script itself will definitely be uploaded onto the wiki, where I'd imagine a lot of people experience the stories anyway.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2016, 05:29:51 AM by Clarste »

Re: Official Touhou Project Magazine 2016: w/ Uni Akiyama and ZUN's music CD
« Reply #148 on: September 16, 2016, 07:46:48 AM »
Sure you can find the story if you want to, I was talking about actually playing throught the story, and yeah, there's really no workaround for that by now
And not just the story, but the character herself, too (If ZUN doesnt want to add her to PC either, which likely to happen)
...
I mean, I move on, but, really ? Next time I see ZUN working with Tasofro, I'd rather shut myself in agony rather than guessing what content they will and will not bring in the game, so they can re-release it later on -_-

N-Forza

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Re: Official Touhou Project Magazine 2016: w/ Uni Akiyama and ZUN's music CD
« Reply #149 on: September 16, 2016, 08:27:33 AM »
I still don't think what they did constitutes this much melodrama, to be honest.

And I'm sure that Tasogare certainly going to miss your continued patronage, assuming you even purchased a physical copy of ULiL in the first place.