Touhou: Awareness of Color Mafia. Day 3.

[Bardiche]

lmao

I'm making an ITP in my game and handing it out to whoever wants the free win and rng everyone else off that cause it won't matter.

This.

In fact, I'm also an ITP, and I'm responsible for Night 2 disappearing. My wincon is reached when all Scum die, also I'm Bulletproof. No night visits plzkthx.

[Conqueror]

People always say this, but MOTK has never lynched a claimed ITP. They always lose to ITPs as well, when it turns out the ITP was lying.

Not that I'm implying anything here, of course. NNR is completely honest and truthful. ITP whose wincon completely aligns with Town and is completely anti-Scum is obviously very believable, and it's what I'd claim if I were ITP. Or Scum. In fact, I think all ITPs always claim their wincon aligns with Town. For all that Townies can lie and Scum can lie, ITP are the faultless gods of Mafia who are guaranteed 100% honest about their wincon.  :wikipedia:

NNR could outright claim Serial Killer and I couldn't care less, unless he started killing townie people. I mean, yes you do have a point about ITP's having a glorious time on MotK, but consider that most of those ITPs were forced to claim under threat of lynch while NNR basically threw himself into a 1v1. Bard fakeclaiming the scum nightkill on UK in Zombies is abnormal and doesn't count. :V

Even if a potential vig claiming would be useful in figuring out the setup I'm against it for obvious reasons.

[Serela]

...actually, now that I think about it, NNR crumbing it at very game start -is- kinda convincing.

Thinking about this more, I dunno, maybe Bard's right and scum/itp making a miller crumb no one is likely to notice (because no one ever notices crumbs as far as I can tell, even with NNR's being one of the more possibly detectable ones) is very possible. But, that's combatted by Dorian claiming miller first, which makes crumbing it really weird.

AUGH SHENANIGANS oh my god you people are pumping out posts faster than I can respond to them plz slow

[Serela]

While I assume Bard is kidding about being an ITP (or at least would say so even if he is) are you serious about claiming you made n2 go away?

[Bardiche]

While I assume Bard is kidding about being an ITP (or at least would say so even if he is) are you serious about claiming you made n2 go away?

No, I'm definitely ITP, I want the free win.

[Bardiche]

That aside, I am responsible for eating Night 2. And I am also going to be responsible for whatever happens to Raikaria tonight. Hint: it involves his action. Double hint: he won't like it.

[Serela]

Do we lynch itp a, itp b, or someone who might be scum but might be town?

This is a conundrum and while I'm partially kidding this is really weird.

[Conqueror]

Well, golly, with so many claimed ITPs, it looks like we can ignore roles and go back to using play to measure scumminess. Fancy that!

[Conqueror]

Seriously though, all ITPs in previous games could have been dealt with if people looked past the claims dangling in front of them and lynched people based off of play.

[Serela]

If we start concentrating on claimplay instead of gameplay this game is gonna go downhill very fast D;

[Bardiche]

Well, golly, with so many claimed ITPs, it looks like we can ignore roles and go back to using play to measure scumminess. Fancy that!

But I'm ITP. Like the Moriya Shrine Avatar in Moriya Shrine Revolution, my wincon completely aligns with Town.

Vig claiming could be nice, but we have Dorian's confirmation that NNR targeted him N1. Unless NNR can double-target, we can abandon the SK strain of thought. Scum may also have been redirected unto one of their own.

Zakeri is still scummy for reasons I should have thought Shadoweh as being scummy, which all relate to terrible low-quality participation. Voting Serela for being too competent is a minor form of panic mongering, and honestly I agree that Serela being competent is surprising but we can't yell at Serela for being incompetent and then lynch him when he suddenly becomes competent (because listening to us is scummy). That's not how things work.

I also don't mind lynching Raikaria for perpetuating a lie or spreading one, at least, and having an inconsistent ability that dual-targets and then single-targets every subsequent night, alongside with nightmares of Dormio's Scum QT where Serela happily let Dormio feed him a lot of lies and deceit.

[Bardiche]

Seriously though, all ITPs in previous games could have been dealt with if people looked past the claims dangling in front of them and lynched people based off of play.

I'm saying NNR is scummy for faking a Miller claim, lying about being Town-aligned (on Day 1 and 2) and then using his fakeclaim of Miller to get the actual Town Miller lynched. And if Raikaria knew about this claim, why the fuck did he use those arguments to get Dorian lynched?

Dorian was counter-claimed by an ITP and I think it is partially to blame for his death. As such, NNR/Raikaria has demonstrably steered us towards a mislynch on Day 2 by pretending NNR was a Town!Miller when at least one of the two knew he wasn't.

[Bardiche]

And this isn't DNA where you can excuse lying on being DNA, this is NNR and/or Raikaria using a fakeclaim to get Dorian lynched. That's anti-Town regardless of alignment.

[Serela]

I'unno, like, if you take NNR's claim at face value he's basically a Town Miller Survivor with powers.

That being said taking it at face value is certainly a questionable thing to do. Weird situation >.>

[Bardiche]

Back to Serela waffles.

;_; It could've been so nice.

[Conqueror]

I'm saying NNR is scummy for faking a Miller claim, lying about being Town-aligned (on Day 1 and 2) and then using his fakeclaim of Miller to get the actual Town Miller lynched. And if Raikaria knew about this claim, why the fuck did he use those arguments to get Dorian lynched?

See, now this makes more sense than what you were saying earlier. I'm still against an NNR lynch but I'm interested in hearing his response to this.

nightmares of Dormio's Scum QT where Serela happily let Dormio feed him a lot of lies and deceit.

Two QTs you were locked out of Bard. :V It was extremely amusing at the time.

[Raikaria]

Raikaria, ITPs fakeclaim. That's what they do. He fakeclaimed Miller before, didn't he?

No; but his role functions like one.

A miller is a Green who appears as a red to investigations.

He is a red who for all intents and purposes has a wincon like Green's.

For excuse me for being under the impression that he was effectively a miller. Because he is.

And if you think I was lying; you are mistaken. I have contact with someone who has a role incredibly similar to a miller. There is a miller claim already. The miller claim gave NNR a blank result when NNR used his role on it. The miller claim is stealing information from other people. The miller claim is hardly actually contributing to town. The miller claim expresses desire for no-one to visit him.

Put yourself in that position and tell yourself that it would not be reasonable to push for a lynch on Dorian. Especially when you already came out of Day 1 with a negative opinion on him like I did.

We lynched Town. That sucks. But at least of all the townies we lynched it was one with a HORRIBLY Anti=Town role that was liable to spontaneously die anyway.

If I was scum I certainly would not be putting all my chips on the table like this. Especially not after losing Schenzo.

And inviting 2 people to a QT every night would be OP. I get 2 on Night 1; 1 every night thereafter. Except N2 it seems; since the night ended before I got any action. If you think I'm scum for a role balancing factor then I don't even know how to argue with you Bard.

Besides; I still have a useful thing up my sleeve for town. Remember; I am aware of something happens Day 3. Something that would have proven Dorian but will instead be used on someone else now for obvious reasons.

I'unno, like, if you take NNR's claim at face value he's basically a Town Miller Survivor with powers.

That being said taking it at face value is certainly a questionable thing to do. Weird situation >.>

It's also strange enough that I'm inclined to believe it simply because of that.

[Conqueror]

An ITP is not a miller, even if their wincon aligns with town. They're ITP. The third person in the QT seriously went along with this logic as well?

[Raikaria]

Also it fits the Reimu flavour.

But anyway we know there is a type of Vig. If you're so worried? Just Vig NNR and turn him into a stump. Go do that Yuyuko; whoever you are. NNR is confirmed ITP. But wasteing a lynch is something altogether different.

The third person basically treated the role as miller too.

[Serela]

I'm sorry ;_;

It's just weird to say "Based on what NNR claimed, he must be anti-town!" when, if you're going on what NNR claimed, lying about being town and a miller is... actually pretty much equivalent to his role and not a significant lie.

Getting Dorian lynched -sounds- really anti-town, but, since NNR is practically equivalent to a town miller survivor, it makes sense to think that the other miller claim is probably not actually a miller.

The flip side is NNR could quite easily just be lying about stuff (like, for example, not actually joint-winning with town even if he IS itp) so yeah.

Cut four times and not reading them yet because I like actually posting.

[Conqueror]

such logic, but whatever

the vig shouldn't waste time targeting reimu as I have a hunch reimu would be immune anyway.

[Conqueror]

*and there are better targets imo

[Serela]

But anyway we know there is a type of Vig. If you're so worried? Just Vig NNR and turn him into a stump. Go do that Yuyuko; whoever you are. NNR is confirmed ITP. But wasteing a lynch is something altogether different.

This is assuming a lot of things. Like, a -lot-.

[Bardiche]

Two QTs you were locked out of Bard. :V It was extremely amusing at the time.

I'm really more bitter about people claiming Scum deserved that victory after I foiled it. Why won't anyone acknowledge all the effort I put into poring over Dormio's posts, filled with seething rage, hate and conviction? ;_;

I've been rolling it around in my head, and at least for now I'm not willing to lynch NNR after all. I think the duo is suspect, and Raikaria doesn't come out rose-coloured here. But the example PM in the sign-up thread showed two non-Town entities fighting each other, and here we have a Scum killed N1, and someone whose role apparently combats the spiritifying. Until we find NNR's opposite, I guess we can leave him alone for now, although I vaguely worry about a theoretical second ITP winning by killing NNR (repeatedly).

I still find Zakeri worthy of a lynch today. I interfered with Chaore's action N1 and saw a disappearing NK so I suspected him, but I guess it's possible that, since Dorian dies on being protected, there's a Doc out there somewhere.



Raikaria, it's Day 3. Where is this "proving"?

[Conqueror]

I interfered with Chaore's action N1 and saw a disappearing NK so I suspected him

Hmm. Let me ask the mod something.

[Bardiche]

No; but his role functions like one.

That just means you pushed a fakeclaim in order to get Dorian lynched. Do you not know how incredibly scummy that is? "Hey this role kind of functions like a Miller so let's lie to everyone that it IS a Miller and get Dorian lynched by fake-counter-claiming." If you're Town, that's incredibly bad play and you should be ashamed of yourself.


The QT implication is clearly that you're Scum with this mysterious third person.

Hmm. Let me ask the mod something.

Yes, they are informed.

[Raikaria]

This is assuming a lot of things. Like, a -lot-.

A scum got turned into a stump night 1.

Unless scum deprived itself of a vote I think it's safe to say it's a soft-vig.

The proving I am not sure when exactly it happens in the timespan. If it is like previously the proving will not happen until much later in the day; unfortunately. We may not even be able to actually follow up on it until D4. At the time of me talking about it in relation to Dorian D2 I was not aware; nor was the player; of the exact time his role took effect.

And seriously. He's red but doesn't win with red. His wincon is 'all other reds are dead'. That is for all intents and purposes a miller; or similar enough that is casts doubt.

And people were not even voting for Dorian that hard at that point. It was the stealing of NNR's night result that was the sealant. Which; however you look at it; is a very anti-town and suspect role.

[Conqueror]

Yes, they are informed.

Wasn't the question I was going to ask but mod gave me an ~*I dunno*~ to my question so welp. :V It'll become clear eventually I guess.

[Conqueror]

It was the stealing of NNR's night result that was the sealant. Which; however you look at it; is a very anti-town and suspect role.

I don't really want to continue this tangent, but I had to respond to this. I'm fairly certain people found the miller counterclaim more suspicious than the role-stealing aspect, given that the role stealing does have utility (can reveal results remotely for townies, deny results from scum) and like I said, negative utility roles are nothing new for town.

[Raikaria]

Am I happy I lynched town? Heck no. I made a judgement error that NNR's role was similar enough to a miller to cast reasonable doubt on the miller claim. Especially with NNR's night result being blank because Dorian stole it.

Which is why I also claimed NNR's full role at the start of today. Because Dorian's town flip obviously paints NNR is a much worse light. I am openly co-operating with town.

That's also why I'm still looking for scum. In case you haven't noticed.

I'm not quite sure where I sit on Rawr yet it just feels like a lurker lynch there; but I certainly want to see Zakeri get lynched; and I think O4rfish is suspicious due to a combination of various minor factors. [D1 voting Actiondan; D2 jumped on the Dorian wagon somewhat late; not exactly too active in the grand scheme of things or contributing much; there was something else D1 I recall not liking from O4rfish but I cannot remember exactly what that was off the top of my head]

I don't really want to continue this tangent, but I had to respond to this. I'm fairly certain people found the miller counterclaim more suspicious than the role-stealing aspect, given that the role stealing does have utility (can reveal results remotely for townies, deny results from scum) and like I said, negative utility roles are nothing new for town.

A lot of people did not express much reaction to the miller counter-claim; or commented on it and then voted other people.

I believe the primary swing factor in Dorian's lynch was him stealing NNR's role. There was more than enough time between the two for several people to have voted.

At the time I outed NNR's blank result there were 4 votes on Dorian. 2 of which were myself and NNR.

9 votes were present when Dorian was lynched.

Also in hindsight O4rfish voted Dorian more to test out the voteblock's legitimacy. My bad there forgot that. Still not keen on O4rfish however.