Touhou: Awareness of Color Mafia. Day 3.

[Schezo]

God bless the "muh scum never getting an nightkill gg la )ry"

[Bardiche]

[Raikaria]

OK so I'm gonna explain NNR's role now because obviously it is required at this juncture seeing as Dorian flipped town... with that role... somehow.

Sorry NNR but I'm full outing you because Dorian did flip town and I'm afraid of a potential flashwagon.

NNR's listed alignment is Red. However, he loses if the Red win. He shows up Red due to cops because of this.

NNR wins if he is the last red player alive, although it is not announced and he does not leave the game. He has simply fulfilled his wincon. He remains in the game until the Green wincon is achieved.

These may or may not be muturally exclusive.

However; NNR also says that his role informs him that there are 5 players of the red alignment including himself. This means a 4 man scumteam. Which is about what is expected in a 16 player game; and is also why if Dorian had said his alignment is red but his wincon green; it would have been near-cerain proof that he is scum.

I highly doubt NNR would claim this to me and even less so to the 3rd member of my quicktopic if he was lying. Especially with a miller claim already existing.

NNR also has 2 night actions. The first is evident from what Dorian stole. He explained it to me as 'basically a rolecop' but it appears he's an action-name cop or something.

The second night action is that he can exorcise stumps and remove them from the game. Which is fitting; because NNR is Reimu. This probobly also explains the whole red/green thing. Reimu is the RED miko. And seeing as things seem to be lining up with flavor; what with Dorian being Seija and me being Toyosatomimi... it adds up.

===

The night phase ending early meant that I did not take an action.

Since Dorian flipped town his wagon is a good place to look for scum; in my opinion.

Moreso the people who rode the wagon than the ones who pushed it:

Dorian (9 ): NNR, BT, Raikaria, Just/Bard, Moridin84, Zakeri, ActionDan, O4rfish, SB

I know NNR and myself are town. So I've bolded the others.

SB hammered and it was near deadline so we can probobly drop him as a votecount suspect

After the Day 1 fiasco I doubt ActionDan is scum so we can drop him.

Dorian (9 ): NNR, BT, Raikaria, Just/Bard, Moridin84, Zakeri, ActionDan, O4rfish, SB

Lo and Behold there's Zakeri on the wagon by the way.

Out of the people remaining I'd say the scummiest are Zakeri and O4rfish. Zakeri by a lot more than the latter. Mordin has been unimpressive but I don't get scum vibes, Bard is probobly town and so's BT.

#Vote: Zakeri

Also someone is voting Conq. An anon vote. I have no clue what to think about this at this time, especially since I don't think many night actions were exactly taken. Might be tied into the early end?

[Raikaria]

These may or may not be muturally exclusive.

This is awful phrasing. Green and NNR both win if all threats to green are dead and NNR met his wincon.

I mean the PM is worded in a way that it's ambiguous if the two happen at the same time or not. In other words it is worded so that there may be a party that is neither Green or Red. Green; after all; wins when all threats to it are gone. NNR wins if he is the last red left, but the game does not end.

NNR's role also means it is in his interest to help us lynch scum. Since has has to be the last red remaining to fufill his wincon.

I guess technically he's a harmless 3rd party who joint wins with town, but might also win if there's anther 3rd party and they win. It doesn't matter if NNR dies after he meets his wincon; he just has to live until then.

[Raikaria]

Also obviously NNR's role helps him find people who kill people which therefor helps him find the reds he needs gone to win.

[Schezo]

NNR confirmed 3rd party

[Bardiche]

Dorian's power involving him dying to protection seems like something that'd be fine to claim but whatever. Does that mean the other Miller is a fake? Clarifications required.

##Vote: Zakeri
Scum by virtue of laziness.


@Raik: Anon-vote is Dormio's claimed hated condition. Since we skipped N2, it proves that it wasn't self-imposed.
NNR does sound pretty ITP.

[ActionDan]

So like... nnr lying about how his win con there works is the first thing that immediately pops into my mind.  Because as it stands he's basically town Miller with an name/ability cop who personally gets screwed if he dies.  Seems sctech to me that he's basically a town survivor.   Survivors generally have the option to survive with scum so they actually have options to meet their wincon. 

[Bardiche]

I've long given up on my crusade against ITPs, MOTK loves them too much.

[Massaca]

Oh come on ;_; I'm really tired right now.

Where'd BT go day 2?

[Schezo]

I agree.  Let him win after you busted him night 1. 

Do not.  I repeat do not.  lynch NNR

[BT]

Hi, I've been following the thread but that's it. There's an ugly exam I have tomorrow and I figured I'd be able to catch up once N2 ends. Not anymore.

Sunshine Dude, the guy who canceled N2 (at least I'm assuming it was an activated role), is probably town and should claim if they're bound to be a wagon topic for today. Otherwise I guess you can keep quiet about it.

The main issue about NNR is that if pro-town he basically has too much in common with Dorian. Another point of interest is the spirit stump thing, which seems pointless right now. Either NNR's wincon has something to do with stump removal or maybe it has something to do with the role that's making the spirits, or none of that. We don't really have any way of knowing unless we hear from someone who knows. In any case, NNR genuinely going off to CC a town miller claim implies he's actually red and not scum and thought it'd be silly if town had a miller on top of that.

Currently voting.
Conqueror (1): Animosity
ActionDan (1): Dr Rawr
Dorian (3): NNR, BT, Polaris
NNR (1): Dorian
Zakeri (6): Conqueror, SB, Raikaria, Serela, Moridin84, Just/Bard    L-2
Dr Rawr (1): Zakeri,
Raikaria (1): O4rfish

On the topic of Zak wagon erryday, this votecount interests me. Mainly how it was probably possible to swing a wagon on rawr or Dorian but everyone ended up piling on Zak. Zak is town -> scum were at liberty to jump on the wagon or do whatever else they want. Zak is scum -> he was most likely being bussed or left for dead. In both of these cases rawr avoided having a leading wagon on him and stuck to trying to nail Dan, which fits the scum MO. If I'm going on wagon analysis alone I'd probably vote rawr first.

Today is a very sad day, for zakeri has finally lost it. On 8/27 zakeri has voted serela for playing competently and with 90% less waffles. look at how crazy CF7 game has made him to vote good play and excellent posts instead of voting people based on bad posts and things that are scummy. From this day on we shall look back at this mistake and think "wow what was zakeri smoking" and then proceed to actually find scum.

##Unvote
##Votes: zakeri

anyways i dont believe NNR is scum so if zakeris wagon some how disappears id probably move my vote to dorian. antitown role -> guilty result with cop -> tells people not to target him(except cops?). i would like to think dorians role is just that unfortunate but if i add 2 and 2 i get 4 soooo

Going back to rawr D2 posts shows this belated "ah yes, Zakeri wagon" post which feels like rawr thought it'd be a good idea to try and get on those opposing wagons finally. There's not much else going on between this and the posts before this which were about the Dan-Schezo gut suspicion, so it's really out of the blue.

Maybe if Zak gets back with more posts like the vote on Serela (which I only skimmed) it'd be more clear where the vote should be going today, but for now I'll point this out.

##Vote rawr

This is probably the only reading you'll get from me until after that smelly exam I was talking about.

Also a note about voteblocker shenanigans, if it wasn't clear, people should actually end the day voting someone if I targeted them, until further notice. There's more to it than me just confirming my power. I'll decide on a target later.

[NekoNekoRex]

I didn't really think I'd need to claim after that Dorian lamery and his stupidly anti-town role, but I guess the QT isn't a democracy.

 I wouldn't have gone through the trouble to counterclaim Dorian and have Raikaria out my role if I were fakeclaiming either.

Based on Schezo's reaction I'm not scum either, so there's that (not that I would really trust his reaction, and I was going to unstump him N2 anyway)

[NekoNekoRex]

I am officially an ITP who has similar goals to Town, whether or not Town wins the game isn't my concern (Raikaria got this wrong in the claim), but I do have to kill all the scum to win the game.

After forwarding many questions to the mod, my wincon isn't announced in-thread once I reach it, and technically once I reach if I can fuck off and stop playing if I want to (getting lynched past my wincon only hurts town, not me), but it's heavily implied there are more ITP roles and "I might as well keep playing to help town stop them, being Reimu"

Anyway get out of my shrine, jerks, I need to think on who is scum.

[Bardiche]

I am officially an ITP

##Unvote
##Vote: NekoNekoRex

Obligatory "I want to lynch the non-Town MightBeThreatToTown entities" vote.

[Conqueror]

With NNR's revealed claim and the night results so far I can already tell this is going to be goty. I don't even have the energy to gloat over Dorian flipping town.

Also someone is voting Conq. An anon vote. I have no clue what to think about this at this time, especially since I don't think many night actions were exactly taken. Might be tied into the early end?

I'm hated, if you recall.

NNR is ITP by definition but the kind that only wins by having all the mafia die off. I'm fine with keeping him around. Survivors usually don't counterclaim other people, also.

Nice to know there are 3 scum left though?

Cut by ITP claim expected/10.

Need some time to find 3 scumspects that make sense together. rawr and Zak remain good targets for lynches.

##Vote rawr since he marginally makes more sense than Zak given lack of insight like I usually see from him as town, but Zak isn't far behind honestly.

So Bard why vote NNR if his wincon can only be achieved with town's?

[NekoNekoRex]

##Unvote
##Vote: NekoNekoRex

Obligatory "I want to lynch the non-Town MightBeThreatToTown entities" vote.

I would be totally fine with you doing this after all the scum are dead, being lynched doesn't negate my wincon once I reach it B)

[Conqueror]

The game would end before he'd get to do that

[Raikaria]

##Unvote
##Vote: NekoNekoRex

Obligatory "I want to lynch the non-Town MightBeThreatToTown entities" vote.

He's non-harmful to town from what he has claimed and such.

I do not see reason to lynch him; all it does is bring us one lynch closer to losing.

Look for someone who stops our wincon.

[Bardiche]

Yeah, I knew it'd be pointless. After all, there's no way an ITP could ever lie about their wincondition, and it makes perfect sense that an ITP is always aligned with the Town. That's sarcasm, by the way; I know MOTK has a raging hard-on for ITPs, and believes ITP is just another way to write "Town". Even if their alignment is red. I fail to see the reason we should believe him and not just lynch him, but I also don't care to argue my case much. It's the same every game.

##Vote: Zakeri

[Schezo]

I know this is gonna be a shock but nnr makes everyone lose when he wins. 

gg I lost getting night 1'd

[Moridin]

I assume that someone has an ability to cut the night phase early. I think everyone's actions were blocked as well. Though I didn't do any so I can't confirm that.

@Raikeria
It seems a bit odd to state that people who voted for Dorion have a good chance of being MAFIA because he ended up as TOWN. Is it so shocking that people actually listened to your arguments and agreed with him?

That said. There's 14 players, 3 MAFIA (excluding NNR and the dead one) and there are 9 players voted for Dorion. Every MAFIA pilling onto him would be stupid so there is at least 1 MAFIA who voted for him and 1 MAFIA who didn't. I'm not sure where the third voted.

I'm totally still suspicious of Zakeri. Just Dorion is more suspicious.

You'll note that already I stated near the start of Day 2 that I was suspicious of Dorion and Zakeri. I just can't nail down the reasons why.

As stated above,  I changed my lynch from Dorion to Zakeri because he seemed even more suspicious than Zakeri.

##vote Zakeri

[Conqueror]

That reminds me. If NNR can only remove stumps, who is making the stumps?

But hell if we need to remove NNR we can do so later in the game. I'm pretty confident that at least one of Zak/rawr is scum and that it's better to lynch there for today.

[ActionDan]

The game would end before he'd get to do that

Which is why something is fucked up about the claim as presented.  I don't think there's a specification for "kill all scum I win can lynch me after whatever"

[Raikaria]

It is a simple fact. When there is a mislynch there are often people riding the wagon. Yes, me and NNR pushed it; but we had darn good reasons to do so. Dorian and NNR are both in effect millers, Dorian stole NNR's night result, and he was acting very suspicious [Bad cases; refusing to claim when CC'ed; the whole 'don't visit me' deal]

Worth noting that O4rfish was also voting to lynch ActionDan on Day 1; who is almost certainly town. This makes me very suspicious of O4rfish on votecounts alone.

I highly doubt there is a role in this game which punishes town for looking for scum. Especially when said role wins by the scum being dead. That would fall under the premise of a bastard mod I'm fairly sure.

I mean seriously: 'OH HEY YOU KILLED THE SCUM LIKE YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO. ITP WINS WHO'S WINCON WAS KILL THE SCUM'. That's bastard. That's worse than a Jester; it's a role that actively punishes town for playing to it's wincon.

Also I don't think this is the sort of role that someone would fakeclaim.

[Bardiche]

But hell if we need to remove NNR we can do so later in the game.

People always say this, but MOTK has never lynched a claimed ITP. They always lose to ITPs as well, when it turns out the ITP was lying.

Not that I'm implying anything here, of course. NNR is completely honest and truthful. ITP whose wincon completely aligns with Town and is completely anti-Scum is obviously very believable, and it's what I'd claim if I were ITP. Or Scum. In fact, I think all ITPs always claim their wincon aligns with Town. For all that Townies can lie and Scum can lie, ITP are the faultless gods of Mafia who are guaranteed 100% honest about their wincon.  :wikipedia:

[ActionDan]

Though maybe there's also a serial killer lol.   In fact if schezo was vigged claim now or forever hold your piece

[Bardiche]

Raikaria, ITPs fakeclaim. That's what they do. He fakeclaimed Miller before, didn't he? Because his claim is that he shows up as an Anti-Town entity to Cop investigations. He lied in the QT to you (or you grossly misrepresented him) by claiming his alignment is red but wincon is green, and now it turns out that's a lie and part of the case against Dorian (two millers? counter-claimed miller!) falls apart because of your private QT and the lies that came from it.

There's already evidence that NNR hasn't been truthful about his claim, and yet now you submit that it must be truthful. Why the fuck even bother arguing? Your ilk are all convinced ITPs would never lie about their roles, and it's your type that always loses to ITPs.

MOTK fucking sucks when it comes to handling ITPs, because they always believe that the Scum in front of them is too good to be lynched.

So saying, I'm going to cockblock Raikaria's actions tonight because fuck if I'll let more of this bullshit go on in his QT where it can't be publicly scrutinised.

[Schezo]

lmao

I'm making an ITP in my game and handing it out to whoever wants the free win and rng everyone else off that cause it won't matter.

[Serela]

Bard does seriously have a point, lying about being ITP is kinda like a free ticket to be ignored if you do it convincingly. He did it in Zombie Apoc himself with flying colors. I realized it only after self-hammering in pseudo-lylo (as it was practically confirmed by roles if you knew/assumed me to be town) BUT LET'S NOT TALK ABOUT THAT

NNR's claim should be treated as null probably, scum rolecop would not be unusual in the least and IMO there's very good reason for scum to believe this gambit would work out gloriously, because MotK really does have a hard on for ITPs. (If he's an actual ITP this is a really sucky turn of events for him because he's outed to scum, whether he's actually town-cooperative or not, which he very well could be lying about for his best interests) ...actually, now that I think about it, NNR crumbing it at very game start -is- kinda convincing.

Whatever, I'll think about it more later. :T I'm all on board for a Rawr lynch, I'm interested in what Zak's going to do today, "let's vote serela for being competent" is a weird move from scum but maybe he was just desperate? But, like, if he was desperate scum it seems like he'd just vote Rawr instead :T

Actually yeah, I'd rather lynch Rawr than Zak.
##Vote DrRawr

cut by lots of posts from Bard talking about itp stuff for good reason :V