Touhou: Awareness of Color Mafia. Day 3.

[NekoNekoRex]

Did you seriously forget Massaca's name as 'Morison'?
Oh my god that's hilarious

[Serela]

We have MASSACA
and MORIDIN

;_;

[Schezo]

Moridin. You know what I mean. Don't be a dick

[NekoNekoRex]

You mentioned Moridin and Morison as two different people in the same post, Schezo

[Schezo]

Yes.
And you think I would call Massaca Morison or Moridin Morison

[Massaca]

He means me with the Morrison/vote bit.

[Schezo]

Then n1ce on him

[NekoNekoRex]

Well when you mention "Morison" as a seperate person from "Moridin" I'm inclined to believe the former.
Either that or your post with the vote is confusing as fuck.

Who are you voting, Schezo?

[Massaca]

I meant that you meant me with that. This:

Morrison on the other hand almost has a joke like: inb4 quicklynched over empty unvote scumtell but it's true.  Like it feels gross for no reason and I like this better now that Serela has content and isn't just a bandwagon jumper anymore.
##Unvote:
##Vote: Morrison

You meant me.

[Schezo]

##Vote: Macassa

[Dorian White]

@Serela: Mhmm, that makes at least a bit more sense but still, you consider that Raikaria overreacts a lot and excuse it. But you vote Zakeri for doing nothing, cause we all know what a whirlwind of activity he usually is day one, ? oh wait, he isn't.
So why is it better to ?vote Zakeri for being Zakeri? than to vote Raikaria for the same reason?
Why is it so scummy if someone comes in late with a joke vote when we have player like Dan and SB who are still siting on their joke votes?

...
Morrison on the other hand almost has a joke like: inb4 quicklynched over empty unvote scumtell but it's true.  Like it feels gross for no reason and I like this better now that Serela has content and isn't just a bandwagon jumper anymore.
...

Sorry but I have to disagree here, all I see is that he jumped from one wagon to the next best with a reason that I find kinda qestionable.

[Sky_Paladin]

Zakeri (5): Chaore, SB, Dormio, Serela, NekoNekoRex
Dormio (4): Anonimosity, Dr Rawr, moridin84, BT
Serela (2): Raikaria, Dorian
Massaca (2): Zakeri, Schezo
Chaore (1): ActionDan
moridin (1): Just
ActionDan (1): Oarfish

Not voting:
Massaca

With sixteen players, it takes nine for a hammer. 

Timer.  Approximately two days remaining. 

[Serela]

Active lurking is worse than passive lurking, because it's trying to look like doing something without actually doing anything.

As for the "but after people have jokevotes too", these accusations really cannot be taken seriously, because we're not even 24 hours into the game and obviously a significant portion of the players are still going to be on the jokevotes they made at the start (and likely haven't made a significant post far enough into the game to warrant having anything better). Continuing to make jokevotes after the game has gotten further is worse, though, because it means you COULD make somewhat of a contribution (regardless of how small) but you instead just opted to putz about and make humor.

Your accusation against me is basically twisting meta to make my stuff look worse; you accuse me of voting Zakeri's jokevote later in the game without pointing fingers at anyone who hasn't posted far enough in to warrant needing a better vote, which is silly, and try to compare Zakeri doing nothing to Raikaria doing things but being overreactionary and silly, which are not equal regardless of meta.

[Serela]

Active lurking is worse than passive lurking, because it's trying to look like doing something without actually doing anything.

well there's also the very notable part where it's totally not far in enough to accuse anyone of passive lurking

[Dorian White]

Oh, now I'm twisting meta?
Then take a look at this and tell me, what had Zakeri to work with that SB didn't had?
And sure, Raikaria talked a lot more then Zakeri but there is in both cases nothing of consequence so far, so what was so constructive in Raikarias contribution that it can't be seen as active lurking as well?

[O4rfish]

I should mention that I have a post restriction that isn't part of my role as far as I can tell.  It's not 100% cosmetic either and doesn't seem pro-town.

!

Let me try to explain why I don't like this post.
First off, the flavor and mechanics for MY role are perfectly aligned. I have a difficult time believing CF7 would write a mechanic into a role which was both obvious to other players and not related to the flavor. It's like you're accusing CF7 of trolling the other players into falsely suspecting you for a liar, for having such an obvious mechanic which, should your flavor be revealed or claimed, wouldn't fit.

Secondly, I stated I don't like the early claim of a PR period. Upon further reflection, that isn't true. I think the early claim of a PR which is easy, harmless, and constantly present (as opposed to a word/day or post/day limit) is not pro-town, and only serves to distract from what Town is trying to do. If someone, such as SB/Monobear in VA2, had a PR which wouldn't be apparent until the point at which they would be unable to defend themselves, of course they should claim it as early as possible. If someone had an actual PR which was as harmless as this one, there would be NO NEED to claim it, especially early in the game.
At best, an early claim of a PR such as what ActionDan claims, a PR which doesn't seem to hinder his posts at all and which wouldn't prevent him from defending himself and which doesn't have any connection to his flavor, would only distract us and take energy away from scumhunting. At worst, an entirely fictional PR which is claimed early in the game can mask a scum player or disguise how abilities are granted. For an example of something similar, see BBM/Norman Bates in VA2 disguising the source of his daytime abilities.
ActionDan claims his role doesn't seem pro-town. The PR itself is completely neutral. This implies he will claim to have "unlocked" abilities which seem anti-town.

NNR: I'm not rolefishing. I was accusing ActionDan of lying about how his PR related to his flavor role, and asking him to reveal flavor. I guess since he's claimed that they ARE NOT related, he doesn't have any reason to do so.
In any case, my role is (obviously) Cirno. I was also thinking this game might be more fun if we were roleplaying our characters, but that would probably just make things more difficult.

TL;DR -- ActionDan is lying about his PR, and plans to use anti-town abilities. Let's lynch him.

[Massaca]

And if he is town then he appears to be painting a night kill target on his back which isn't too exactly a useful thing to be doing at this stage either >_>
Anyway, I quite like that second paragraph on so yeah.
##Vote: ActionDan

Though I really don't think you should have claimed you character since there's absolutely no need for it and who knows if it could have a negative outcome at this stage.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

I'd like Dormio to talk some more. Be more active. Post in mafia you nerd.

Fuck you.

I'll post in a bit after I read whatever the fuck happened while I was gone.

[Chaore]

Woah nelly that's a wall there.

I'm gonna confirm my role fits my flavor pretty well too atleast, though the rest of that feels uh.

Kinda efforty for what amounts for a single line of post and a mistaked reading (The anti-town was probably in response to his restriction, though that's really not the case.).

I'm unsure if giving our names out is entirely smart either, though obviously anyone who wants them probably won't tell us. (Not like two of us haven't already given it freely.) I'm not going to say much, but something would make me kind of suggest treating character names with some level of import at the moment.

Catto- No, fuck you Dormio.

I want you talking. Give me what you've got you damn nerd.

[Massaca]

Furthermore on O4rfish' "At worst[...]" point, Dan's claiming of "I unlock powers for not breaking my restriction like Pokemon last game", if not town asking for an NK could well be scum asking to live on easier with promises of (presumably better) abilities coming.
It just doesn't make sense to me for him to have claimed all that when it all could have easily been kept hidden.
(And no, it didn't occur to me until O4rfish brought that up)

[Dr Rawr]

TL;DR -- ActionDan is lying about his PR, and plans to use anti-town abilities. Let's lynch him.

ignoring the fact that actiondan may or may not have a post restriction. why would i lynch action dan for having claimed anti town powers he obtains at some point? im pretty sure scum arnt that ballsy

on a kinda related note obtaining powers at a later point isnt that weird the same thing can happen to me two

[BT]

This first.

TL;DR -- ActionDan is lying about his PR, and plans to use anti-town abilities. Let's lynch him.

Wait, what? There's some serious jumping to conclusions going on here. The best motivation for claiming a flimsy post restriction (PR) like that would be that it actually exists, not "because scum wanted to set up a claim from D1". Didn't he say the PR had no relation to his role anyway?

[BT]

So the first thing that comes to mind is that this reading into Dan's PR is way far-fetched.

And if he is town then he appears to be painting a night kill target on his back which isn't too exactly a useful thing to be doing at this stage either >_>

Dan's restriction holds for now so nothing on that but I was thinking on Dormio's SB vote. [...]

I can buy that Oarfish would have made you look more into the post restriction, but first quote is an unrelated remark that feels a lot more like a "by the way...!" adding-fuel-to-the-fire sort of thing, which means you went from the mindset displayed in second quote to "oh yes" pretty fast, if you see what I mean. Consult Bard's "opportunity" post for more information.

[BT]

Dorian's case. It bothers me because the whole double standards thing isn't really relevant. It would be pointless pressing Raikaria over taking someone too seriously, but it isn't-so-pointless to press Zak for skimping on content.

Then take a look at this and tell me, what had Zakeri to work with that SB didn't had?

Then there's this transition into "but why did you ignore other active lurkers".. which wasn't the point. By that logic, you could be voting anyone on the Zak wagon, or probably most wagons at this stage.

[BT]

Well, I definitely dislike Moridin's "me too" attitude in following Serela's logic of voting the biggest wagon, but even so you're suddenly distancing yourself from it with no content besides.
[/quote]This part. Where? If it's the little blurb Schezo said he liked, that's not "suddenly distancing" at all.

[BT]

Well, I definitely dislike Moridin's "me too" attitude in following Serela's logic of voting the biggest wagon, but even so you're suddenly distancing yourself from it with no content besides.

This part. Where? If it's the little blurb Schezo said he liked, that's not "suddenly distancing" at all.

[BT]

Fuck, in my efforts to change my posting style for the worst I forgot I might want to vote.

##Unvote
##Vote Massaca

That behavioral gap is probably the most immediately offending thing to me, so I'll be pressing it.

[Massaca]

"Holds for now" as in he hasn't broken it so there wasn't reason to doubt it. But you're right about the opportunistic part. First time I played it was insisted on me that I find somewhere for my vote to go, even if it were weak, I have pretty much nothing so far and O4rfish bringing it up got me into agreeing with it. It feels like the best place to start.

It's about 30 hours in and there's nothing else sticking out to me. He claimed all this less than a day in, including the power gaining part. The restriction is really weak so I highly doubt he's getting anything decent from it so then come day 2 it'll be "guys i get XXX words today dont lynch me thnx" and then day 3... Conspiracy theory sure, but it's a good excuse for Scum Dan to lurk out.

[BT]

Then we should... judge what happens when it happens. Usually if I suspect player X of "doing this first and doing THAT later" I won't say it until THAT happens, because now it probably won't happen even if you're right.

Anyway, I think the first thing that bothered me was that you could have said "Dan claiming power is putting a target on his back, why would he do that" earlier but only did so after Oarfish posted the wall. If it comes to you that easily, surely you can find something else to say on someone?

[Raikaria]

I'm back and unlike last game *STUFF HAPPENED* while I slept!

@ ActionDan wagon

So; wait, now people decide it's weird? After I already pointed this out a while ago?

Still, I'm in the same camp as Dr.Rawr. Scum wouldn't come out and say 'hey guys my role is anti-town!'. Some perfectly fine town roles can be seen as anti-town in some situations. Like a roleblocker; especially in role madness early in the game [You're more likely to hit town], or a Vigilante [Again; good chance of shooting the fellow townies which is an anti-town result]

And why are people claiming their role names? Since from what myself, O4rfish and Chaore said about the role mechanics and role names being aligned, it is possible that giving out our role names/characters is giving the mafia more information that is required of us.

===

The whole Massaca thing with Schezo is both hilarious and confusing at the same time. I'm not even sure if it is worth me listening to that discussion is the confusion of player names there makes it difficult to decipher.

However, I must admit bailing an RVS wagon at 4 out of fear of a hammer when the requirement to lynch is 9 is a very strange thing to do. However, I also feel that it is non-indicative.

===

2nd Massaca part; the more recent stuff:

And if he is town then he appears to be painting a night kill target on his back which isn't too exactly a useful thing to be doing at this stage either >_>
Anyway, I quite like that second paragraph on so yeah.
##Vote: ActionDan

Painting a nightkill target on your back can be a perfectly acceptable thing to do if your role is actually unimportant; or even detrimental for the scum to kill, such as a Bomb.

@ BT: I take it the behavioural gap is the two quotes you have in #142

===

Serela I missed you and your waffleing. It appears your waffle has become even more glorious to listen to since you took a break.

You don't deserve my vote anymore:
#Unvote
===

I don't really like Dorian pushing Serela for claiming he turned around in his vote on Zakeri when the reason he voted Zakeri was completely different to the reason he 'almost-voted' me. I was over-reacting to the 'case' itself [When in actuality I was just doing my normal 'press for info thing]. Serela voted Zakeri for jokevoting in the first place.

Also claiming Serela is wagonhopping when most of the Zak votes have been there for a long time [SB and Chaore's votes were from RVS], and Dormio's was basically for the same reason as why Serela voted him. I would hardly accuse Serela of just jumping onto the best looking wagon. Especially not when Serela has only voted twice so far, one being RVS. If a more sustained pattern develops then that accusation may be valid. Otherwise...

But you vote Zakeri for doing nothing, cause we all know what a whirlwind of activity he usually is day one, ? oh wait, he isn't.
So why is it better to ?vote Zakeri for being Zakeri? than to vote Raikaria for the same reason?
Why is it so scummy if someone comes in late with a joke vote when we have player like Dan and SB who are still siting on their joke votes?

Wait, so you accuse Serela of voting Zakeri for being Zakeri [Because he is 'doing nothing'] and then you acknowledge his jokevote, and try to correlate it to RVS votes? I was still sitting on my RVS vote until now too. The difference is Zakeri made this 'jokevote' after RVS had ended. It's not good that you say within sentences of each other than Serela is voting Zakeri for 'doing nothing' and then talk about the 'jokevote' which is not 'doing nothing'.

I really don't like the way you are pushing Serela. I think pretty much every main point you have thrown at Serela is pretty weak. The fact this is literally your only content as well makes me have the worst opinion of you out of everyone right now.

#Vote: Dorian

On that matter I don't like the fact Zakeri said:

Don't worry SB, the best reads so far are the ones on Serela and the other guy for bandwagon hoping.

How can one be wagon 'hopping' when one has only placed a single vote? Accusing Serela of jumping on the wagon, which was nowhere near the edge and was clearly a jokevote in RVS is one thing, but accusing someone of hopping around wagons is quite another.

Also worth mentioning that Dorian is voting Serela for voting Zakeri, and both Dorian and Zakeri seem to be using the really bad wagon hopping case against Serela. [Zakeri's use being even worse but he's not actually voting on it.]. Not saying they're scumbuddies but it's still an interesting sign.

===

Other people other than Dorian I don't read well include Zakeri [That should be pretty obvious from my Dorian vote], SB [What happened when we didn't lynch the lurkers last game?] and Massaca is kinda on the borderline so I need to think about this one and re-read the events last night. The fact the people pushing him have not actually made a fully explained case dosen't help.

I also have a few townreads. Not sharing those.