Mirai Nikki Mafia Second Thread (Game Over)

[BT]

I did invite you to my QT. My action failed. I am not afraid of what is in the QT BECAUSE IT SUPPORTS THE CONCLUSION THAT I AM TOWN.

I wanted him in the QT too for the same reasons so nice one? I actually changed my action mid-night just so we could have more people around and I was right in doing that.

(i originally targeted serela what is wrong with me)

[BT]

Part 1:

I have no doubt BT is going to make a big fuss about how I was defending Dormio in the game thread and in the QT. Yeah, I admit it, I defended Dormio. Big whoop. I thought he was town. I had (I thought) pretty decent reasons for Dormio town which people didn't appear to disagree with. So yeah, I thought he was a scum mislynch especially after Paperblade flipped scum.

But look at how BT interacted with Dormio, and not just in the QT (which bard can't see because he's not in it but serela can summarize for him I guess). Sure, BT calls Dormio scum in the QT but for really flimsy reasons that wouldn't convince anyone, and the rest of the time he just assumes Dormio is scum because ? And in the thread? We have stuff like:
"I'd look at Dormio for scum if we reach this far down."
"I need to think more about Dormio I think because initially I thought he was town for one of the reasons Conq brought up (why would he not just post a conclusion after some of his walls as scum?) but I can't really shoot down the cases on him or at least not comletely."

Yeah, bullshit. It's a light hedge in the case that Dormio flips scum but it's not an actual stance on him. I took a stance that I believed in on Dormio. What did BT do? Light distancing?

And then when LYLO comes he throws away this Dormio scumread he's been holding on to for a large portion of the game to go for a BardXConq pairing with logic that doesn't even make sense? Yeah.

(if we're going to go into dormio's opinion on bt, well he never has one and avoided my query to him about him once. yes, i know dormio never mentioned me before but that's probably because i was obvtown)

Why the precaution? Guess I'll look deeper if that's what you think. I also think you made a mess here chronologically.

Anyway what should be the general argument wrt Dormio is that I did actually attempt to read Dormio while you had a nothing opinion on him on D1 and then established he was town and moved on. Strength of stance is really in this case. I also explained why I changed my mind (see other post) and it was a rash decision on my part, and Serela coming in with DORMIO IS SUPER TOWN GUYS was going to influence my decision. It's not that striking when you take it all into account.

[BT]

And then it happens that most of the two pages is Conq harping on my disgusting flipflop and apparently that's enough to form a bias. COME ON GUYS. Read the rest of the game too. I could argue that there's no way I would've changed my opinion that sharply and without substance as scum and poof goes that argument.

The bias is bad enough that, SERELA, that LD2 Conq post you quoted is him going "i'm unsure BUT we all need a flip 2013, go go lynch" like how does that look town at all. Basically makes him look town while not actually unvoting, actually the opposite.

Gonna make actual posts lest I start making short rhetorical replies like Conqy.

[BT]

Anyway just look at stuff like D4. BT says he defended CF7 in the QT. That's true, but for flimsy reasons and for all his "defense" when D4 came around and I made a play-based case on CF7 and he claimed, BT just spent the rest of the day poking at CF7's role and his reads on CF7 from earlier were seemingly forgotten.

http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15570.msg1024400.html#msg1024400
This is where I started on CF7. Decide for yourself if it's fake. My read was forgotten because apathy is stupid, let's talk about this scummy role instead, no retort there. I don't think anyone is proud of their D4 here.

Serela can also confirm that there's a point where BT said "SCUM IN THE QT" which feels really fake (and Dormio replies with something lulzy)

It was a joke because I was going on about how the QT had no scum in it for a while. Of course it felt fake.

didn't huhwhat say something like if raikaria flips town dormio is scum at the end of d1 anyway? could have been for dormio's sake.

in any case he was a claimed mason and a strong voice so...

He didn't push Dormio anywhere near as hard as he pushed you. Your scumteam had the most motivation to kill huhwhat and if Dormio was bus fodder my scumteam would practically have no reason to.

In fact I suggest people read LD1. It's pretty much required reading. Link below.
http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15570.360.html

And thereafter disappearing for the rest of the day, yes.

The rest of D5? I was sleeping?

[BT]

Meh. What I come out with from reading D6/QT is just "BT left a bunch of holes, let's exploit it all the way to 11". My endplay is really fucking sloppy for scum!me and I was scumhunting the whole way through so for Conq to just brush it off as "flimsy reasons that wouldn't convince anyone" is convenient. I wouldn't be able to fake most of this shit as scum. If I wanted to coast I would have at least stayed consistent instead of blatantly ignoring my own content and letting people point it out later - I would have been aware of that as scum but as town I just didn't care.

Conq's play is a lot more calculated. He takes every opportunity to use bad play to his advantage and lunges onto town!dormio points when they show up. It isn't apparent unless you think he's scum and then it's hard not to notice. His play just makes a lot more sense as scum. He barely had to waffle on his points and when he did it was intentional (Zak and SB because of role developments, Paper because of cred).

[BT]

Serela if you continue reading the QT just look at my posts from the pov of me just plopping in with whatever I had in mind at the time. The posts wouldn't have to be convincing because I just wanted to get my natural thoughts in there.

[BT]

Conq claiming that he just ended up reading me as town in the QT off the bat should be an indicator tbh. He probably didn't even want to try pushing me as scum because it was all too much. Or he wouldn't have tried painting me as scum in there in the first place because his objective was to ignore me for a while, which is what I think he was trying to do. Yeah, that works. -_-

[BT]

I also think I can safely say that Conq latched onto holes and coincidences because my actual non-apathetic play is just fine.

[BT]

Vote Conq.

[BT]

Hey Conq, you said in the QT that it's scummy that my role wasn't vanillized when Bard brought it up on D4, but how would Dormio do it? Bard never specified what my role was and the roleblocker query wasn't necessarily my action just because he linked it to my action. Here's a better question: why wasn't YOUR role vanillized? Dormio entered the QT on D4 and I knew about your role all along. I could have told him to shut you down on N4 so that no one else gets in and then say it was a gambit on your part if it came down to you vs me. It would have been an objectively good move - you claim that the QT was inconvenient for me, after all.

[Serela]

BT why can't you make this easy for me </3

Waiting on Bard's opinions because I haven't gotten to see what he thinks yet still

[BT]

You could always tell me what you think right now so we can make progress. Bard said he thought I was the scum but that was before all this and who knows when he'll show up.

[Serela]

I still only see a few small blips IIRC on why I would vote Conq but you're making me waffle about actually voting you. >:T

But I don't want to think about it right now and I'd really like to see what the other townie here has to say, too.

[Serela]

But I don't want to think about it right now and I'd really like to see what the other townie here has to say, too.

aka THE PERSON I CAN RELY ON NOT TO LIE TO ME </3 DORMIO WHY

[Bardiche]

Hey Conq, you said in the QT that it's scummy that my role wasn't vanillized when Bard brought it up on D4, but how would Dormio do it? Bard never specified what my role was and the roleblocker query wasn't necessarily my action just because he linked it to my action. Here's a better question: why wasn't YOUR role vanillized? Dormio entered the QT on D4 and I knew about your role all along. I could have told him to shut you down on N4 so that no one else gets in and then say it was a gambit on your part if it came down to you vs me. It would have been an objectively good move - you claim that the QT was inconvenient for me, after all.

In what world would scum prioritise turning a mostly harmless role into a vanilla (according to popular opinion) over screwing around with dead people's roles?

BT, can you explain why you wrote up the Bard x Conq scumteam dream stating that Dormio is Town because "Serela townreads him"?

These sort of theories are interesting as always, since the first line doesn't support that I could be scum but you raise it anyway in a context where most thought I was scum. (Kilga yoinked your power N1 and I softclaimed it D2, leaving no opportunity to have "clopped" (Wtf) Zakeri.)

I thought this was harmless at first, but looking back it might also have been scum avoiding to claim because they weren't sure what I knew. Then there's the weird conclusion at the end here about Dormio targeting himself to confirm his back-up. Using a role on yourself doesn't confirm anything, suggesting that this was the case only supports that "Dormio isn't lying", which is obviously helping scum. You were also suggesting that Dormio wouldn't need to claim.

AND I WILL NOW STOP GAMING THE SETUP

LYNCH ME IMMEDIATELY IF I DON'T

We can't do without setup talk, of course. If Conq is town, town has both a masonry and a permanent linker with unlimited capacity, not to mention an absorber who could make another link. If I am scum, scum have two interfering utilities (hijacker, jailer) and two protective utilities (bulletproof vest via ascetic, jailer). That's TWO protective utilities to handle one theoretical compulsive vig (and one bomb, but jailer would rb the killer). The kicker is that the hijack stops kills too (I had to check the flip myself) which means they could have hijacked Yuno's compulsive kills (wtf). Along with unlimited strongman vanillizer backup it's way too strong - so town were given the jailer and scum the "vanilla" linker role.

##Vote: BT

##Unvote



Day 4 has a lot of waffling on CF7, interestingly no vote despite suggesting multiple times that his role could be scum?

Review Paperblade/Dormio, but never reviews Dormio. Ever.

Yeah I'm pretty happy to lob off BT here.


Wait for me to come with some fun stuff.

[Bardiche]

BARDICHE IS AN ASSHOLE

Let's have that as our opening here. I just had a revelation.

Serela, we do not need to think about this whatsoever.

I actually lied; I targeted BT last night. I am now a Jailer for the coming night. What does that mean? It means if we lynch BT now, I can Jail Conqueror tonight if the game doesn't end. Then we lynch him tomorrow.

Consider it. If BT is Town, then he correctly roleblocked Scum!Conqueror tonight evidencing that Conqueror cannot halt that block.

Shadoweh has announced today as MYLO. Considering we HAVE to lynch it's impossible to actually be in MYLO, but I assume she means that a non-zero chance exists wherein mislynching today will not end the game. In the scenario above, a 100% chance exists of a Day 7 if I act tonight. (Assuming Scum!Conq would not be a bus, as per action resolution chart.)

The one thing that actually stops me for now is Shadoweh clarifying the conditions of MYLO because we're not allowed to No Lynch.

@Mod: please clarify the conditions for MYLO.

If I'm right on the above let's turbo-lynch BT and then turbo-lynch Conqueror tomorrow. <(￣︶￣)>

[Bardiche]

"Bard, why did you lie?" before anyone asks. It was just in case my target was going to claim something silly like not acting or whatever. I don't know what I was thinking since there's a zero percent chance of all surviving without a protective role being in play, but them's the apples.

So yeah. The only reason I wouldn't go Conq->BT is because I know for a fact both roles have components they claimed to have (given I copied both at some time), but BT has already proven his role functions on Conqueror. The Mafia redirector is dead, making a busser highly unlikely. And I don't want to get into scuffles of two jailers targeting each other, which resolves first?

Honestly, both Conq and BT give me a headache right now and I still think BT is the most likely scum, but so long as Shadi can confirm MYLO means the game need not end with a mislynch today, we should be fine with lynching both.

[Serela]

rofl bard ilu

[Bardiche]

Let's not act hasty before Shadoweh actually clarifies the conditions for MYLO because YOU NEVER KNOW SOME SILLY SHIT MIGHT BE IN PLAY.

[Serela]

Considering we HAVE to lynch it's impossible to actually be in MYLO, but I assume she means that a non-zero chance exists wherein mislynching today will not end the game.

Even in a game where no-lynch is not allowed mylo/lylo can still be used for their normal definitions IMO, but that still doesn't disqualify the chance of pseudo-mylo, which mods don't all announce and occasionally might forget or something

since if you're a jailer tonight then yeah

Since we both think BT is more likely scum then Conq anyway I don't see much of a real reason in waiting for Shadoweh to clarify, though; unless it means you're going to go through them both with a fine-toothed comb more just in case or somethin'.

I'd prioritize asking "if we mislynch today will the game just immediately end or do we go through n6" over "definition of mylo", though

Shadoweh you can take that as me effectively asking this question plz

[BT]

In what world would scum prioritise turning a mostly harmless role into a vanilla (according to popular opinion) over screwing around with dead people's roles?

From what I'm getting off of Dormio's flip he had no problem using both abilities on the same night.

BT, can you explain why you wrote up the Bard x Conq scumteam dream stating that Dormio is Town because "Serela townreads him"?

That was one of the reasons. What do you need explained?

These sort of theories are interesting as always, since the first line doesn't support that I could be scum but you raise it anyway in a context where most thought I was scum. (Kilga yoinked your power N1 and I softclaimed it D2, leaving no opportunity to have "clopped" (Wtf) Zakeri.)

I didn't catch that at the time and thought you targeted me on N3. I brought it up because it did support it so I don't know what you're saying there.

I thought this was harmless at first, but looking back it might also have been scum avoiding to claim because they weren't sure what I knew. Then there's the weird conclusion at the end here about Dormio targeting himself to confirm his back-up. Using a role on yourself doesn't confirm anything, suggesting that this was the case only supports that "Dormio isn't lying", which is obviously helping scum. You were also suggesting that Dormio wouldn't need to claim.

First link IS harmless because my reaction as town was to want to see what you knew without me helping by claiming. Second link: I did think he targeted himself so I said so. Third link was actually a hopeful test to see if you'd agree with it, which would have made you scum who got the information from the other buddy.

Day 4 has a lot of waffling on CF7, interestingly no vote despite suggesting multiple times that his role could be scum?

I wasn't sure. After that Conq said in the QT that CF7 probably made the whole Tenth thing up and I said "fuck it"because I'm an idiot.

Review Paperblade/Dormio, but never reviews Dormio. Ever.

Also because I'm an idiot.

cut by fuck yes
granted i won't have the moral victory of winning a slapfight with conq but this sounds like it will work

[BT]

Like I'm 100% sure Conq failed his action because he HAD to link Bard tonight in case I targeted someone not him. The other option is that he didn't because he sent a kill on Bard but I blocked the kill so there.

[Bardiche]

If Conq is scum he really worked hard for the win.

[BT]

Well yes he did. He always does actually. I was kind of sorry we got a second chance via Dormio but I wasn't about to waste it all the same.

[Serela]

Yeah if Conq is scum then goddamn

[Conqueror]

Meh. What I come out with from reading D6/QT is just "BT left a bunch of holes, let's exploit it all the way to 11". My endplay is really fucking sloppy for scum!me and I was scumhunting the whole way through so for Conq to just brush it off as "flimsy reasons that wouldn't convince anyone" is convenient. I wouldn't be able to fake most of this shit as scum. If I wanted to coast I would have at least stayed consistent instead of blatantly ignoring my own content and letting people point it out later - I would have been aware of that as scum but as town I just didn't care.

Conq's play is a lot more calculated. He takes every opportunity to use bad play to his advantage and lunges onto town!dormio points when they show up. It isn't apparent unless you think he's scum and then it's hard not to notice. His play just makes a lot more sense as scum. He barely had to waffle on his points and when he did it was intentional (Zak and SB because of role developments, Paper because of cred).

BT defense here is that his play is too sloppy to be scum.

As for the latter, I read this as "Conq looks like scum if you assume he's scum first and read everything through that lens." Seriously, man?


Have only skimmed the rest but anyway, it was good that I checked this just before I went off for the day. Bardiche's claim makes this easy for all you paranoid freaks. So, can we lynch BT now?

[Conqueror]

I'm not scum, by the way. Am I really that hard to read? 

[Bardiche]

Both of them agreeing so readily to the plan. It's almost frightening.

[Serela]

I know right?

But, regardless of Shadoweh's answer, we're probably lynching BT, aren't we?

Soooooooo ##Vote BT

[Bardiche]

Yeah but I still want answers!!