So You Want To Be The Townest Mafia (Thread 1)

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

somebody pls post :fail: :wikipedia:

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

My computer is exploding.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

THANK YOU
okay, so

• Dormio - I'm starting to worry he's not reading the thread, for providing no concrete opinions on lynches other than Dan's and generally brushing aside the people poking at him. I believe the only time he posted and explained a serious suspicion of a player recently was when he talked about BT, but he hasn't mentioned that since, and he hasn't expanded on his Dan case or attempted to refute the reasons people are clearing Dan (I know I posted mine). Still waiting on that Affinity case.
• Nameless - His suspicions on Bob and rawr were never pushed further he initially posted them, so they're starting to look more like posts he can point to when people say he isn't scumhunting rather than actual reads. Would vote him because it doesn't look like he's truly paying attention to scumhunting, just that he's handing out minor, waffly comments on what's popular when asked for opinions.
• Omba - Though he gets points for backing down against me with a reasonable explanation, there's still reason for scum to do the same thing, so it doesn't put him in the clear just yet. I still believe his D1 - D2 inconsistencies are suspicious enough that he's a good lynch target. I'd like him to explain his priorities between BT and Nameless while he's here - the Nameless vote is rather surprising since a lot of his earlier focus has been on BT.
• Serela - After Dan's claim, I thought his D1 strongly leaned townie, but this D2 has been bad. Serela's management of his Affinity case is totally spineless; giving up on trying to push Affinity's lynch due to a lack of support less than 48 hours into the day is unnecessarily defeatist and not how town get their scum reads lynched. If anything, it gives me the impression he didn't want to be accused of tunneling on a mislynch he couldn't obtain. The Bob votepark is totally unimpressive - this especially stands given his most recent post, where he dropped Bob as one of the worst players while keeping his Bob vote down, and yet still neglected to respond to my request for him to expand on his Affinity case. It just looks like he's completely apathetic about finding scum and getting them lynched.

##Vote Serela

[Shadoweh]

The Twenty-Eight Votecount Is Exploding

Action Dan (1): Dormio
Lady Lambdadelta (2): Action Dan, BT
BT (1): Lady Lambdadelta
Mr. Bob (2): I have no name, Serela
huh what (0):
Omba (2): Affinity,  Chaore
I have no name (2): Dr. Rawr, Omba
Dormio (1): capt.h
Serela (1): Huh what

Proxy on: Omba

Not voting: No one!

Boxes Opened: Serela, Action Dan, Lady Lambdadelta, I have no name

Tarred and Feathered: Dr. Rawr

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

There are 40 hours remaining.
Day End Countdown

Mod Note:  The time between 12:00 am and 11:59 pm of Sunday the 8th will not be counted for prodvig actions.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Warning - while you were reading 49 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
I totally haven't been sitting on this post for a day.

how he could still think Dan scum despite being the main counterwagon to an anti-cult vig

I don't see how this would change my opinion.

I echo the need for Dormio to give out reads on people who aren't Dan

I'll just make an opinion post.

capth - Don't dislike him.

Affinity - First of all, there's that whole Serela vote that I always thought was a bit off. I know Affinity says later that he thought it sufficed for a D1 case but he also states in #158 that he isn't convinced in his own opinion of Serela due to the amount of noise Serela is making. In #207 Affinity continues to snipe at Serela whilst unvoting him. From this point on, despite having never given a clear opinion in regards to Serela, Affinity seems to just forget about Serela which makes me wonder how genuine his feelings were.
There's also how Affinity handled the whole DorianDan thing. Something about the way that he follows up the next day in #643 about how any movement between the wagons is WIFOM, but his movement, voting Dorian can't fit the scum agenda. Isn't that just more WIFOM he's invoking?
I also find Affinity dropping his BT case to be very curious. I mean there was nothing to suggest that Affinity wanted to drop his BT case and, in fact, Affinity talks about how he feels that BT is exaggerating in his case against Chaore yet Affinity seems to forget completely about BT when the second day begins.
Later into the day, he's questioned about this drop on BT and Serela to which he responds with nothing conclusive.

Serela - Thought something felt off, didn't find anything I particularly disliked.

DrRawr - Kind of a thing but I like him.

ActionDan - Scumzorz. Upon several reconsiderations, whatever.
##Unvote
I will assert that he's being bad and should post or something but whatever. In particular his behaviour with the whole Dorian thing and him not voting for Dorian since he thought Dorian was town despite being the counterwagon thing whatever.

Omba&Chaore - Haven't read.

ConqHW - Don't dislike.

IHNN - Don't think I like him. Will reread in depth later.

Mr. Bob - A thing, but I don't particularly dislike him.

BT - Reread indepth later.

LLD - Reread yesterday. Didn't dislike.

Whatever.
##Vote Affinity


Firetruck Firetruck

[Affinity]

@Dormio:

1) Serela did not post anything of importance in D1 from the time we had our exchanges until the switches at the end of day wagons.  You can't possibly expect me to hold onto the Serela vote through the Dorian-Dan-BT fiasco for my original ED1 reasons, or even form a concrete opinion after that.  I doubt most of the playerbase D1 had a solid read on him in the first place, including you.
2) In #643, I said they were more than WIFOM due to the presence of the anti-cult vig, and scum not wanting to lynch him if possible; this is precisely why I voted Omba.  I don't think you have read my case (or many of my posts deeply for that matter).
3) I talked about BT extensively D2 here and here as my second scumpick.  It's not as if BT has done anything of note other than return LLD's favour and go on V/LA anyways, and all that's left is to judge him by his D1 actions, which I still don't feel to be good.

In any case, I'm not impressed with your lack of currency on the current cases (which you had 24 hours to read), your refusal to answer my question here for the fourth MARMALADE time, or your case on me, which contain's major inaccuracies.

===

I don't know if I'm supposed to be impressed about Omba's sudden attainment of Nirvanna in the form of his lackluster IHNM case when I, huhwhat, and even Serela (!) had already pointed out stuff wrong with his case a long time ago!  The story of capt.h (of all people) descending from the heavens to lead Omba to the light (summarize your case!) may be somewhat touching in some circles, but I call VEGEMITE and will remain steadfast with my vote. 

Oh, but what if the Omba lynch doesn't come into frution?  LLD, Dan, BT and rawr aren't here and have not done anything of use!  Chaore came in to jump on the Omba wagon, discarding all his previous reads!  Dormio tunneled for 80% of the game and has not read it since!  Serela is useless! This game is full of people who are impossible to read and don't give two BOVRIL about the game; it pisses me off and town might as well go die in a fire at this rate.

##Open the Box

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

your refusal to answer my question here for the fourth licking time

What the firetruck do you want from me?
I've said that I do not understand how being the counterwagon to the anti-cult vig clears Dan.

I'll address the rest later when it's not midnight.

[Dr Rawr]

Not sure what to think of yesterday's wagons, but Dorian's claim makes the movements between wagons more than WIFOM.  I'm quite sure scum would have wanted the anti-cult vig to live over other townies, which partially explains the sudden swelling of the Dan wagon to L-1 as at least half of them shifted to the Dan wagon.  I think this is pretty strong evidence that Dan is town, and that people who suddenly came in to vote for Dan without much prior reasoning, such as Serela (though that LLD vote makes me feel a bit better), rawr, Omba, deserve scrutiny. 

Will be back with a vote soon.

3) Those who unvoted and persisted in doing so after Dan got to L-1 are probably town (rawr, maybe Serela but he's confusing and was waffly over his position on Dan)

Really now?

@Everyone: What do you think of the current cases on Omba, BT, huhwhat, now?  Do you disagree or agree with them?  Because seriously, everyone's trapped in their own box and are impossible to read.

The amount of buddying up with huhwhat and trying to create noise about omba/bt seem really scummy to me.

[BT]

Since town is lacking in motivation right now I might want to note that

we're almost 24 hours to deadline and not consolidated as MILKSHAKE.

##Unvote since I pushed for this lynch for TOO long now and no one is looking past their cute little towntells (or even worse - "uhh i don't dislike?" or "uhh idk?" waffles) and I want a wagon that isn't on town and will actually WORK this time around.

HW is town because Conq was town, especially after that exit. Dormio is ye olde tunneltown. Dan is town. Capt.h was "lol obvtown" but I honestly don't know anymore, same goes with Rawr, but they're definitely better than some others and I'm leaning town. IHNN is also leaning town because his play doesn't match what I'd expect from IHNN newbscum and I already went over this. Mr. Bob is leaning town and his proxy vote helps this opinion I guess?? And Chaore's latest posts leave me with a pretty good vibe, can't really explain it, not in a hurry to lynch him like before.

Which leaves Omba, Serela, Affinity. And LLD but I don't see potential for a LLD wagon anywhere now do I? Seriously half the town isn't interested and I can't explain it without "they're lazy". Can't really blame them but honestly. -_-

Next post I make will have opinions on those last three. And if I can't find scum there then I might as well trash all my reads and start over. !_! Or I just force people like Capt.h and Rawr to stop being so goddamn forgettable. I mean seriously Rawr is STILL going on about IHNN scum despite this getting absolutely nowhere and all he's been doing aside from that is pointing out contradictions without reaching any deep conclusions, which means he's mentioning them for the sake of mentioning them and letting other people reach the conclusions he didn't bother voicing. And you know what? This is scummy. But if I look into other people I'm sure I can reach similar conclusions. IN FACT I'm pretty sure I can relate some of this to my own actions, which means Rawr may be an unmotivated townie just like myself and half the game.

I'm with Affinity. This game is unreadable.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

...~~~'''~~TOWNIE MOTIVATION~~'''~~~...

have a video of shadoweh irl if it helps

I'm trying to play the game! It's just VERY DIFFICULT to get reads when only a select few people are posting coherently or talking about players other than their pet cases. I wish Serela wouldn't make scummy posts before going to bed.

BT, why is Dormio's tunneling townie?

Affinity, out of the people who are terrible and not Omba, which do you actually think make good lynches / are likely to flip scum, if any? Same question I gave Serela.

[BT]

Ey, you're definitely not included in the lazy townie town half.

The kind of disconnect of "I'm going to stay on my vote although it's probably going NOWHERE" (in this case, pretty much everyone thinks Dan is town), which he very recently tried fixing, is what he did in pretty much every game I recall playing here. Except for Imp, in which he was mafia, and in which instead of Dormiotunneling he was a lot more passive, something I do not see in this game.

It's strange, I really feel like procrastinating RIGHT AFTER I POSTED A *MOTIVATION* POST.  :wat: :wat:

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

It's strange, I really feel like procrastinating RIGHT AFTER I POSTED A *MOTIVATION* POST.  :wat: :wat:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxGRhd_iWuE

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

I think the difference between that and the other games where Dormio has done this is that here it doesn't seem like he's actually doing anything to try to convince the other players when they question him on his case and attitude. He just kind of brushes them aside, and I find this suspicious.

[capt. h]

Hi again. Got some time now.

First off, BT and Serela should not be things today. If we're gonna consolidate wagons, let's start there.

Second, I am NOT happy with most of the wagons. I'd like Dormio dead, and I can get behind an Affinity lynch. But I'm having a hard time seeing the scum behind LLD, No Name, Omba, and Bob. LLD I can kind of understand because I admit she's a tough cookie to read, but I can't say I find the other three particularly scummy. Maybe its gut, But No Name and Omba don't know how to SHUT UP at all when they're pressured which is a KINDA REALLY BAD QUALITY FOR SCUM (i.e. wrap around to townieness Affinity mentioned.) And then there's Bob, who clearly has a reason for the worst of his play and is NOT subtle about it.

But I don't mind lynching Affinity AT ALL because of lots of reasons. For one, it feels like Affinity is judging people as scummy not for their overall behavior, but primarily based on single instances of HERP DERP that even I'm having trouble seeing as scummy. His day 1 Serela case? That wanting to minimize the chance the box gets into scum hands and wanting to pass the box to the towniest person was a logical contradiction. His Omba case's primary tenant is that Omba didn't like Action Dan's claim but liked Dorian's claim, which is a position that is scummy.

I THINK HE'S VOTING BAD LOGIC OVER EVERYTHING ELSE. There are other things that annoyed me about his play, specifically asking me about my read on Bob when the day before I already told him I had a town read on Bob, (although I can understand thinking that might have changed), and putting words into my mouth when he said I thought Conq was town day 1 (he similarly put words into No Name's mouth, which No Name calls him out on) but the primary issue I have with him is he's using MURDER THE BAD LOGIC as a proxy for scum hunting.

ANYWAY, I'm totally cool with lynching Affinity, but I'm not super happy with Dormio after his "I Don't Dislike Anybody except Dan and Affinity" reads. Why? It's basically "Affinity did something scummy! But I don't have any thoughts on anyone else." There was no reason for him to mention me, Serela, Rawr, Omba, Chaore, Huh What, No Name, Bob, BT, OR LLD except MAYBE to fill up space on the page.

[Shadoweh]

Shadoweh's Gourmet Race Twenty-Ninth Votecount

Action Dan (0):
Lady Lambdadelta (1): Action Dan
BT (1): Lady Lambdadelta
Mr. Bob (2): I have no name, Serela
huh what (0):
Omba (2): Affinity,  Chaore
I have no name (2): Dr. Rawr, Omba
Dormio (1): capt.h
Serela (1): Huh what
Affinity (1): Dormio

Proxy on: Omba

Not voting: BT

Boxes Opened: Serela, Action Dan, Lady Lambdadelta, I have no name, Affinity

Tarred and Feathered: Dr. Rawr

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

There are 25 hours remaining.
Day End Countdown

Mod Note:  The time between 12:00 am and 11:59 pm of Sunday the 8th will not be counted for prodvig actions. At least 6 people are confirmed absent today.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

1) Serela did not post anything of importance in D1 from the time we had our exchanges until the switches at the end of day wagons.  You can't possibly expect me to hold onto the Serela vote through the Dorian-Dan-BT fiasco for my original ED1 reasons, or even form a concrete opinion after that.  I doubt most of the playerbase D1 had a solid read on him in the first place, including you.

His reactions to my case in the form of OMGUS however, isn't encouraging, and cemented my scumread on him.

I dunno about you, but that looks like a pretty solid opinion.

2) In #643, I said they were more than WIFOM due to the presence of the anti-cult vig, and scum not wanting to lynch him if possible; this is precisely why I voted Omba.  I don't think you have read my case (or many of my posts deeply for that matter).

Whatever. Doesn't change the fact that I don't particularly like how you paint your own actions in the townie light. Why Omba over Serela?

3) I talked about BT extensively D2 here and here as my second scumpick.  It's not as if BT has done anything of note other than return LLD's favour and go on V/LA anyways, and all that's left is to judge him by his D1 actions, which I still don't feel to be good.

I don't know about BT; the beef I had with him D1 still stands, though not as pressing as it was then due to the wagon thing.  I'm reading his completely useless LLD counterwagon attempt to be a nulltell, and I'll have to see further content from him. 

Will just say that if I had to go for one of them in their 1v1, I would go for BT.

I don't see how these are explaining how BT is your second scumpick. In the first one, you basically reserved judgement on both BT and Serela. And in the second one, all you said that BT was a better lynch than LLD and it's also implied that you wouldn't go for either outside of the 1v1 being forced or something.

Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck Firetruck

[I have no name]

Which leaves Omba, Serela, Affinity. And LLD but I don't see potential for a LLD wagon anywhere now do I? Seriously half the town isn't interested and I can't explain it without "they're lazy". Can't really blame them but honestly. -_-

I'd be behind an LLD wagon.  In fact I'd be fine with a lynch on any of them.

Bob's proxy being an official thing is interesting.  I think he's playing Donald Trump which means absolutely nothing.  Still want to see him lynched but I'd be willing to move him back on the priority queue.

In other news, I'm back for all of ten minutes before disappearing for at least 12 hours.

[Affinity]

@Dormio:

1) You can't possibly expect me to hold onto the Serela vote through the entirety of D1 based on a logic contradiction and OMGUS (I switched to Conq).  You quoted a post from ED1.
2) Where did that come from?  You have got to be kitten me about choosing Omba over Serela.  See 1).
3) ... granted, but I still feel BT to be scummy due to his D1.

You can't answer a "Why X?" question with "because I don't!", either, Dormio.

@rawr: I can change my opinion and the latter one is one I stand by.  And noise about Omba/BT?  It's a case you have to address, and you aren't even making a single f***ing sound!  Answer the question.

@capt.h:  You are not reading my Omba case, which is not based on bad logic and which is based on scum intent.  Just look at the four preambles I made in this Omba case of mine.  If you want to disagree with them, do so directly, don't put me under the giant shade of 'trying to lynch people for logic contradictions'.  There's also a reason why I dropped the Serela case for the Conq case in D1; precisely because I realized it was outdated.  I don't think I particularly wanted him lynched by the end of the day.

@IHNM: I think Omba had already posted 3 posts on HW by then.

===

@huhwhat: This is a puzzle.  Chaore stands out to me as scum!coasting with his token opinions and his Omba jump late in the day; I think he stands a good chance of flipping scum if we can get behind him.  Dormio's escape from his tunnelvision with a case on me does not comfort me, and his ignorance of issues with the Dan case back at the start of D2 and his lack of scope is an issue.  BT is also scummy as I said before in D1, but my opinion will change according to his new posts.  So it would be something like Omba > Chaore > Dormio for me.  Bob and capt.h have become better, and I still believe in rawr despite that awkward change onto me.  LLD is still an enigma and I have no idea what to think of her; though I wouldn't want to lynch her today.

[Dr Rawr]

what question?

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

You can't answer a "Why X?" question with "because I don't!", either, Dormio.

First off, I still have no idea what you're expecting from me.
You're asking why I thought that Dan was scum, despite him being the counterwagon to an anti-cult vig, and I'm telling you that I have no idea how being the counterwagon to an anti-cult vig even excludes him from being scum in the first place.
So what the firetruck do you want from me in regards to this?

[capt. h]

...ARG.

Alright, I now understand Affinity's case.

I don't like your preambles very much, to be honest. First, I'm not convinced scum particularly cared that Dorian was an anti-cult vig. Second, I'm not convinced scum had anything to do with the swell on Dan's wagon. And the reason for that is simply because I looked at Rawr, Serela, and Omba individually, and I'm not convinced any of them are scum or particularly scummy. To use an Umineko reference, one of us is looking at the chessboard, and the other flipped the chessboard.

I admit, part of the problem I have with Dormio and part of the reason I think he's scum is that he isn't able to see Dan in a town perspective. I don't mean your reason:

2) Dan is probably town due to claim and because the Dan wagon swelled to L-1 after I tied it 4-4, implying that scum may be behind the move.

I mean Dan was playing in blatant disregard for his own survival. For him to be scum he would have to be insane. I would expect scum to have a hard time seeing it though.

Anyway, I don't think I agree with two of your preambles, namely, that the vote surge on Dan was scum motivated, and that Dan should be cleared because of it. Dan should be cleared because his play in response to his wagon makes no sense for scum, not because of the surge.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Why is Serela unlynchable? Yes, his D1 looked pretty town at the start of today but it's like nobody is reading his incredibly scummy D2 because of that.

[capt. h]

WELL, I suppose you COULD lynch him. I would just be about it because I don't think he's scum, and he hasn't done anything I wouldn't expect from town Serela. EXCEPT MAYBE POST COHERENTLY ON DAY 1.

ANYWAYS, IF A PLAYER ALWAYS LOOKS SCUMMY FOR THE SAME REASON, THAT TELL NO LONG APPLIES TO HIM. Because Serela is ALWAYS KING OF THE WAFFLES, and because he ALWAYS catches suspicion for it, I can't use his waffly behavior as a tell. So he had a really awesome day 1 and a Serela day 2. I need something non-Serela and scummy before I consider him a good lynch idea.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

I hate that mindset because it encourages people not to improve their play. If you want to play meta, then go read Serela's D2 town play from last game, which is completely different from the way he's been handling his Affinity case today. Being Serela doesn't make him not scummy. Him waffling isn't even the reason I suspect him. Read my posts.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

I admit, part of the problem I have with Dormio and part of the reason I think he's scum is that he isn't able to see Dan in a town perspective. I don't mean your reason:

I mean Dan was playing in blatant disregard for his own survival. For him to be scum he would have to be insane. I would expect scum to have a hard time seeing it though.

ActionDan - Scumzorz. Upon several reconsiderations, whatever.
##Unvote
I will assert that he's being bad and should post or something but whatever. In particular his behaviour with the whole Dorian thing and him not voting for Dorian since he thought Dorian was town despite being the counterwagon thing whatever.

Where whatever means that I'm dropping my suspicion of him. Well, could have been phrased much better, but whatever.

[capt. h]

I hate that mindset because it encourages people not to improve their play. If you want to play meta, then go read Serela's D2 town play from last game, which is completely different from the way he's been handling his Affinity case today. Being Serela doesn't make him not scummy. Him waffling isn't even the reason I suspect him. Read my posts.

You do remember that he had Dorian hydraing with him, right?

I'm all for encouraging people to improve their play WHENEVER I think it will further my win condition.

Although... I'm rereading Serela's day 2 and it's making me cry. Because I really don't think his day 1 was scummy at all, so much so that I hadn't seriously CONSIDERED that he could change his mind and become totally... his day 2. BECAUSE HE WAS ON MY FIRETRUCKING TOWN LIST. HEY SERELA, WHY THE FIRETRUCK DID YOU WAIT 2 DAYS TO VOTE BOB WHEN AFFINITY WAS SCUM?

Sorry about that, it seems there was a bit of miscommunication between the point you were trying to make and the point I understood. AND I CAN'T MAKE HEADS OR TAILS OF WHETHER I'M READING SCUM OR SUPER DERP TOWN.

[capt. h]

Right, I forgot.

This is why NeoSerela is probably town.

Still immensely annoyed at him after the reread of his day 2, but I think he's town.

[capt. h]

And no, I do NOT consider Serela a viable lynch.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

I don't find his switch as amazingly townie as Rawr's because of how quick he was to withdraw it. Serela's didn't actually force him to commit to a fakeclaim.

[capt. h]

It's not about whether he withdrew it or not, it's about the fact that Serela immediately and reflexively unvoted Dan.