Author Topic: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II  (Read 212085 times)

Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #30 on: March 15, 2011, 10:19:11 PM »
Yes phoenix wings is awesome.... also kappa pistol someone needs to test if it effects spell or not to see if its awesome. If it does, its awesome, if not not worth 1.1k unless you're one of those heros with bad attack animations like mino or yuyuko.

Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #31 on: March 15, 2011, 10:26:41 PM »
Kappa pistol seems good on item-dependent carries like Flan or Sakuya who needs to farm alot for their build.
It's a bit of agi, and almost +5 armor, so it seems good for jungling. (gogo jungle flan)

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Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #32 on: March 15, 2011, 11:11:19 PM »
I would think a carry would want something that makes better use of their attack speed.

Carries also tend to be very squishy as well... So it's a toss-up

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Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #33 on: March 16, 2011, 03:00:21 AM »
good guide hele btw i suggest for getting blue card for remi (more useful at mid game btw) because ramboing with ult+hax ms seems nice to me.....while yellow ones only slows one girl
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Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #34 on: March 16, 2011, 06:43:21 AM »
Am I the only one hyping over the Enoch item just because its El Shaddai?
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Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #35 on: March 16, 2011, 06:50:57 AM »
Yes. :V
Anyway, derpgame.

Hakurei
Stuffman (Yuuka)
Panda (Meiling)
Rizock (Sakuya)
DollS (Utsuho)

Moriya
Whitewish (Letty)
BrownBeta (Patchouli)
Murasaki (Kogasa)
Dormio (Shikieiki)

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Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #36 on: March 16, 2011, 07:37:07 AM »
Hmm, I think I'll write a serious guide for new people to the game, as I'm quite-ishsomewhatkindamaybenot new myself and new people need some general advice..I think..

                                                                               In other words, it's the don't make the same mistake as me guide.-By DollS

1. Get a easy hero to start with. Don't try for complicated ones like Alice or someone where you need good map awareness (Like someone squishy) etc.. I recommend choosing Tenshi as a beginner as she was recommended to me to play after I flopped badly with Alice and she's quite good and easy to play if I say so. Cirno was also recommended and definitely easy to play, so you can choose her as well.

2. Don't be afraid to ask for help when your in a bad situation. I still make this mistake sometimes, taking on heroes that I couldn't really handle.

3. Not sure if others will like it but lane with someone if your not sure you can handle them by yourself. You can survive better and won't feed your opponents much.

4. Listen to your teammates, if they say back, go back, even if you think you can kill one of your opponents. You may just kill them but that's not likely.

5. Run if the situation looks bad. These situation include: Your creeps are dead and the enemy creeps are coming. Your health is red and you can't heal and there's a enemy girl coming for you. All teammates died when you were all trying to push etc. There are more I think but I can't think of anything now.

6. Don't Rambo. No ramboing. Nope. Nadar.

And these are the advice for new players that I can think of right now. Now, these advice are recommended if your new but you can start being loose on some of them when you get a hang of the game but you should still listen to them even if you become the No.1 DotS player....I think.

So, tell my if guide helped you cause I'm not sure if this is good or not...





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Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #37 on: March 16, 2011, 07:54:59 AM »
That seems more like a tips/suggestions post than an actual guide, but I have to give it a lot of credit for some really solid advice.

I agree with it.

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Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #38 on: March 16, 2011, 10:22:31 AM »
Am I the only one hyping over the Enoch item just because its El Shaddai?
We discovered later on it was Enoch but kept naming him Blonde_dude :V And we used to hype as well until they made it expensive as hell.

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Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #39 on: March 16, 2011, 11:27:41 AM »
Nice Alice guide! I've been having problems with controlling Alice. The hotkeys tip is really useful 'cause I usually clicked on a creep or other stuff instead of her dolls

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Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #40 on: March 16, 2011, 01:47:26 PM »
Modified guide on Remilia as well as on the wiki to clarify the bug on the bats. The skill is simply bugged.

Quote from: #dots-meido
[14:39:58] <Helepolis> TranceHime
[14:39:59] <Helepolis> http://i54.tinypic.com/m9rclh.jpg
[14:40:04] <Helepolis> could you tl please what it says
[14:41:40] <TranceHime> Remilia splits into 7 bats which fly and attack. Bats are capable of attacking, and their power increases with each level. They can also Lifesteal if you took levels in it. After the duration, Remi takes the place of the bat with the absolute highest HP. Remi dies if all the bats die.
[14:42:14] <Helepolis> ok so tooltip confirms it as TranceHime says
[14:42:17] <Helepolis> basically it is a bug

=.=

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Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #41 on: March 16, 2011, 09:30:00 PM »
Hour long 4v4 that involves stuns, Scythes, flowers, UFOs, HP stats and Butterflys

Hakurei
Cirno (rizock)
Yuugi (Rikter)
Yuyuko (Dular)
Loolicon (Tenshi)

Moriya
Momiji (BrownBeta)
Nue (WhiteWish)
Yuuka (Sodium)
Kisume (Hero999)

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Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #42 on: March 16, 2011, 11:13:39 PM »
When you think Hakurei was winning, shit becomes serious and the game turns. Then again few were spiking and lagging making it harder to play.

Hakurei Pesco (Satori), WhiteFish(Mokou), Rikter(Yugi), Stuffman(Reimu)

Moriya Dolls(Tenshi), Rizock(Komachi), BrownBeta(Sanae), Helepolis(Remilia)

Chat contains me shouting and typing now and then complaining. But eventually our team succeeded in playing correctly. I was amazed by the teamplay. In fact, I myself died 2x because I farmed bit too much like a rambo. orz. Also game contains girls with awesome builds. Tenshi with mods :V Komachi with Phoenix etc :V

[attach=1]
« Last Edit: March 16, 2011, 11:16:21 PM by Helepolis »

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Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #43 on: March 17, 2011, 12:36:42 AM »
hurr why u guys posted all replays where i'm lose  :(
btw that mokou x tenshi bug happens to me in that replay lol
« Last Edit: March 17, 2011, 01:08:03 AM by akurou »
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Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #44 on: March 17, 2011, 01:05:54 AM »
'cuz u sux fishdish. (jk)

Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #45 on: March 17, 2011, 03:25:28 AM »
general advice/thoughts/opinions/suggestions/etc:

early game:
- melee heroines which don't benefit from spending their mp on their enemies (for example, trying to lane as Tenshi, vs Minoriko) can alternatively buy two cakes for their regen, so you can stay in the lane for a longer time (if you play carefully enough) and avoiding losing exp from healing at the base (one of the cakes can either be turned into Bento/Reitaisai ticket later, or Scythe)
- you can start with bento if you feel you can harass your opponents (Tenshi feels better off with two cakes, though, if you start with Fissure and masochism passive) with your mp
- blue (movespeed up) cards are useful if you feel you're a squishy, gankable heroine, or if you want to be able to chase better for a low price (enemy heroines running towards their towers may not expect you to use one)
- if you're having difficulties to farm and lane exchange options aren't seemingly viable either, think about surviving for long enough for your team members to farm well enough without the other heroines on your lane feeding on you. You may die a couple times as a support heroine, but if your teammate manages to have more kills/levels/money than the person laning against you, you increase your team's chances in most cases
- sometimes purposefully not killing heroines early (around lvl 3, 4, somewhere) but effectively denying them exp from your damage potential threat is more effective. If they leave you no choice (regarding you denying them exp) and you can kill them.. check the minimap quickly for the other enemies :D
- when you're at the side lanes, you can buy tickets and the small/large hp/mp regen items (not consumables) -- cakes, provided that you're not against a nuker or against a dps or against a disabler+someone else, can make you stay in the lane for longer
- when you're at the mid lane, you can (with proper timing) bring the neutral creeps near the middle tower towards the middle tower (they don't stay at the middle tower, though). Like in DotA's scourge side, this earns you early exp and gold, and brings the enemy creep line towards your tower, which is good in early game since it keeps the laning opponent from trying to deny creeps, under the risk of a disable or being attacked by the tower if they attack your heroine (or if the tower's target dies and then the opponent's the nearest target). Speaking of bringing enemy creep lines nearer to your towers, you can try to block creeps while you go along with them to delay them (like in DotA, as well)
- if both you and your opponent are melee heroines (and neither of you are dual-laning), you can sometimes bait your opponent into hitting you if this will cause the allied creeps near him/her to aggro him and do more damage than the single attack you've taken
- watch out for heroines which are in the mid lane, since at times she has the mobility/disables/damage (which goes well if the one you're laning with is a disabler, for example) to try to assist the person at the nearest lane
- keep in mind how much damage the heroine laning against you can do, and also mind the extra safety hp you'll need if Tenshi's on the opponent team, or if you're laning against Komachi (over 50%) or Yugi (at least over 25% if she doesn't proc the horn; timing out her ult will still guarantee 25% damage, though)
- also keep in mind the opponent heroine's mp, if they can't combo and kill you, you can deny and last hit better
- heroines with escape mechanisms (blinks, movespeed, stuns, slows, etc) are safer to start learning how to play, though you still can die from ganks (being outdisabled, for example). For example, Alice, Reisen and Tewi are riskier to play in this aspect.
- finally, get used to spending money with Bus Tickets, not only can you switch lanes quickly for helping minimize damage on the towers there, but they can save you if you're caught far from your tower (against enemies who can't withstand tower damage well enough for killing you and getting out alive) if you try to use them while the opponent's disable is on cooldown, for example. (this also means that, if you and the opponent are in an inverse situation, you can wait for the opponent heroine to start teleporting and then use your disable to cancel it)

character specific advice:
- if you're using Tewi, it's very likely that someone on the opponent team will pick Tenshi for her harassment (fissure and ult), given Tewi's low hp. Have your team decide how to deal with this (by trying to babysit Tewi or by switching lanes on sight), or if Tewi is really worth picking in this scenario.
- same case with Kanako, where someone on the opponent team will likely try to pick Letty for outranging MoF and thus evening both team's siege potential (or likely shifting it towards Letty's side -- haven't seen Kanako's side trying to use Soy Sauce in this scenario, though)
- if you plan on using Cirno so that your ult disables your opponents' front line, keep in mind that Tenshi's passive rock will interrupt the chanelling
- Hina's ult is countered by Sanae's or Reimu's, and alternatively, Hina herself can be focused if she uses ult (so to minimize the amount of damage she reflects), but generally, if she's collecting damage done to creeps/summons/allies, especially through AoEs from your team, RUN.
- if you're using Rumia, the opponent team has the option to pick either Momiji or Wriggle since their anti-invisibility skills can make Rumia more disable-able (Momiji herself can reveal+shieldbash Rumia, for assisting or running away, until Rumia decides to switch lanes for easier heroines to kill, at least :p)

mid game:
- if you need to farm neutrals, you can try to farm neutrals which are near to the opponent's base for the sake of denying the opponent team; make sure that the opponents are visible on the minimap first, though, since being ganked can lead to a situation where not only you die, but some players trying to save you also do die by being outnumbered by the opposite team if they regroup first
- when enough players of the opponent team have died, your team has an opportunity to push. Don't try to inflict heavy damage to double towers, though, unless your team really can reach them with a good amount of hp/mp and has means of getting away alive (in some cases, teamfights at the towers don't occur, just the damage to towers before the defending team is regrouped)
- when enough players of the opponent team have died but your team's hp isn't enough to attempt a push, farm the lane or neutrals while pushing forward, you can even farm neutrals but try to stay near your teammates so that you can help them if the opponent team try to start a teamfight; leaving your team to be outnumbered is disadvantageous. Think of the exp and gold (equipments) the opponent heroines will gain faster, and the level gaps.
- start discussing with your teammates about who's getting which item (for example, if someone's getting Phoenix, you can try to get Parasol, or Reitaisai, or Moderators, or Myon, or ZUN glasses, or Inaba Stick if you have aspd, among other options)

character choices:
- think of how much disables you and the opponent team have (consider AoE disables such as stuns, slows, as well as single-target ones); having too much tankers on your team may mean they can't get in to the other team without taking severe damage, plus being outdisabled means it's safer for the opponent team to try to push, as well as saving themselves and punishing your teammembers for trying to attack them
- if the opponent team has strong magic damage potential, make use of healing skills and other support skills such as Nazrin's pendulum and magic-invincibility skills (Koakuma and Remilia are special cases, in which it's disadvantageous to try to get many people to try to attack them at once. Still, Sanae's ult, for example, can allow your team to fight without taking Koa's massive bouncing damage, provided that your team can kill someone before Sanae's ult ends)
- think of the opponent team's push potential (for example, heroines who can deal heavy damage against towers and heroines who can kill creeps faster). For example, Letty can blizzard creeps while Yuuka can ult and then melee towers while she casts sunflowers around herself. Rin can bring flaming zombies which both remove creeps and converts them into more flaming zombies which in turn deal damage to towers, Alice can rush towers, Kanako can defend towers, Hina can use her ult emergencially to help kill creeps while her teammates are arriving (or waiting for respawn). Reimu can duplex tanks being attacked by the towers, Nazrin can cast pendulum too.
- there are certain heroines which rely more on teamplay than others, and those using them should consider the teammates' character picks (examples that come to mind now are: Letty, Flandre and Alice. There are characters which are relatively safe to use due to defensive resources but don't have as much teamplay potential or their potential doesn't change much inside and outside teamfights, examples being imho Suika, Marisa and Kaguya)
neku: now for something important.
Translations.
How much time do you guys think it will take for HM to be translated? Besides everyone's story modes and the whole menus, there's also the fact that the way HM's programmed is different from all other games. I bet it'll take two months.

lusvik: I don't mind about playing HM in japanese. The language of punching other people is international.

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Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #46 on: March 17, 2011, 10:28:08 AM »
Quote
- melee heroines which don't benefit from spending their mp on their enemies (for example, trying to lane as Tenshi, vs Minoriko) can alternatively buy two cakes for their regen, so you can stay in the lane for a longer time (if you play carefully enough) and avoiding losing exp from healing at the base (one of the cakes can either be turned into Bento/Reitaisai ticket later, or Scythe)
Like I was discussing in IRC, unless you are positive you are going to rush scythe I don't get the point of a second cake; why not buy teas instead? It takes over three minutes for a cake to regen as much HP as one tea. If you're at critical HP with double cake you still need to go heal, with tea you don't.

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Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #47 on: March 17, 2011, 11:43:37 AM »
Green tea is risking. It can get dispelled if you get hit by anything, wasting 100 points. You cannot wander among the creeps to risk getting hit. This is why double cake + bra is much more beneficial on the longer term. I would get lover card for emergency cases and keep sending your yukkuri forth and back for additional healing. Leaving the lane is something you should not be doing.

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Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #48 on: March 17, 2011, 12:23:40 PM »
I warned you about that team composition bro.

Hakurei
TranceHime (Minoriko)
Dormio (Tenshi)
Infinity (Komachi)
Rikter (Utsuho)

Moriya
WhiteWish (Hina)
DollS (Shikieiki)
Reverie (Shizuha)
Necrodesu (Flandre)

trancehime

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Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #49 on: March 17, 2011, 12:26:13 PM »
Next time I am literally going to bark out orders on which heroes people should use.

Seriously. :fail:

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Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #50 on: March 17, 2011, 02:48:38 PM »
I kinda felt like trying some carry or something that game but that would have been a bad idea due to lag and lol me playing a carry.

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Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #51 on: March 18, 2011, 11:48:50 AM »
Spiders take over the world, and then some.
Also, Hakurei jerks Kuriboh by going on TeamSpeak and not typing at all.

Hakurei
TranceHime (Meiling)
Dormio (Mokou)
Amraphenson (Yamame)
Kuribohlv9 (Suwako)

Moriya
ApharmdB (Reisen)
Infinity (Wriggle)
DollS (Utsuho)
Reverie (Nue)

Reverie

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Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #52 on: March 18, 2011, 12:54:05 PM »
Spiders take over the world, and then some.
Also, Hakurei jerks Kuriboh by going on TeamSpeak and not typing at all.

Hakurei
TranceHime (Meiling)
Dormio (Mokou)
Amraphenson (Yamame)
Kuribohlv9 (Suwako)

Moriya
ApharmdB (Reisen)
Infinity (Wriggle)
DollS (Utsuho)
Reverie (Nue)

that was a depressing game.its as if your team was telling us to piss off

Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #53 on: March 18, 2011, 01:46:19 PM »
Well that's what happens when one team has TS and the other doesn't :V

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Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #54 on: March 18, 2011, 02:27:33 PM »
The targeting on the Spiderman ult is really awkward. I'd like it to attack enemies it latches onto rather than targeting something else. Other than that, I think this is a nice guide.

Reverie

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Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #55 on: March 18, 2011, 06:27:52 PM »
dular 1hp escape

hakurei
dular (okuu)
amraphenson (yamame)
tapsa (mystia)
reverie (cirno)

moriya
sodium (suika)
magical_loolicon(nue)
brownbeta(patchy)
rikter(shizuha)

Dular

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Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #56 on: March 18, 2011, 10:39:45 PM »
That was my most glorious moment in Dots to date.

Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #57 on: March 19, 2011, 01:01:26 AM »
Quote
Sanae is a cocky goddess
lol i see what you did there

Quote
I am sure there will be plenty of disagreements like "Go full kebabs only" etc. But yea, opinions.
who ever took that srsly should jump off a cliff... a really high cliff

Quote
. I would either get four kebabs then built additional items and sell kebabs
better to just consume them, unless you cant farm for crap. swr and such should get you enough money for anything, especially with the KS
« Last Edit: March 19, 2011, 01:07:07 AM by Dr Rawr »

Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #58 on: March 19, 2011, 01:39:07 AM »
opinions:
- nice guide, though I prefer to use Tenshi as a "tank who has two disables" and occasionally can harass with fissure :p
- I usually play her counting on regen item for her masochism skill (two cakes give the same regen one bun gives, and are cheaper and also lead to her farming well enough for bun which means you're closer to Reitaisai if your team doesn't have one or needs one but is having problems getting money/not getting killed before finishing it), don't like to pick keystone early because in most cases it's less useful (low str at beginning and how enemy heroines aren't as easily harassed by it, at least not more than they can harass you too) -- I'd say more situational
- haven't tried bra+cake yet, maybe this will also lead to bra+two cakes if I'm using Tenshi on a side lane against someone who doesn't deal a lot of damage in a short time
- Tenshi has a situational combination which hardly kills people but it's good to know: if you don't have the MP for fissure+ult, you can melee your laning opponent as if you were just meaning to harass her to deny last hits/denies, then stun her with fissure then TP to fountain, refill MP and then ult before she has the time to realize your goal. Ult is useful if some of your teammates have been killed and thus giving the opponent team an opportunity to push your towers. Just lowering their health a bit can spare your towers from being damaged too much, plus ults don't take too much time to cast again imho; another situation where ult can be used, is right after one of your teammates have been killed; you can do this unless you really want to spend it on the laning opponent.. (it's not like not getting kills is harmful to your team, if you can also send some enemy heroines in other lanes to heal at the fountain)
- Scythe is good but I usually skip it (for Myon/Reitaisai/Phoenix) unless the team has someone else to tank towers (or some sort of support skill for that purpose)
- gonna try parasol and/or mask for tank supportness someday :p
neku: now for something important.
Translations.
How much time do you guys think it will take for HM to be translated? Besides everyone's story modes and the whole menus, there's also the fact that the way HM's programmed is different from all other games. I bet it'll take two months.

lusvik: I don't mind about playing HM in japanese. The language of punching other people is international.

Hero999

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Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #59 on: March 19, 2011, 02:11:14 AM »
who ever took that srsly should jump off a cliff... a really high cliff
better to just consume them, unless you cant farm for crap. swr and such should get you enough money for anything, especially with the KS

going full kebobs for awhile works pretty well early game, you just gotta get better items afterwards... since kebobs are mostly meant to help you farm better or use empty spaces.