Author Topic: Touhou Bitching/Whining Thread mk. 7  (Read 189693 times)

Re: Touhou Bitching/Whining Thread mk. 7
« Reply #930 on: June 22, 2010, 04:59:37 AM »
What I'm saying in short is that everybody who's playing on the Lunatic level and has gotten a few 1cc's under their belt should be able to get a UFO Lunatic 1cc.

Well, surely even you would agree that the difficulty is quite a bit higher than the earlier games? I mean, I've 1cc'd the first 4 windows games on lunatic, and UFO lunatic still destroys me (SA still does a fair bit, too)

Nothing in the game has necessarily struck me as unfair, of course. In fact, I don't really think that anything in any of the games has. Some attacks are more annoying than others, certainly. Some are downright mean. But they've never seemed unfair.

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Re: Touhou Bitching/Whining Thread mk. 7
« Reply #931 on: June 22, 2010, 05:10:29 AM »
http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=9214
Spoiler:
FUCK!!!
[/size]
*Hits Alt+F4 & posts on MoTK, then runs SA again*

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Re: Touhou Bitching/Whining Thread mk. 7
« Reply #932 on: June 22, 2010, 05:17:46 AM »
Well, surely even you would agree that the difficulty is quite a bit higher than the earlier games? I mean, I've 1cc'd the first 4 windows games on lunatic, and UFO lunatic still destroys me (SA still does a fair bit, too)
No, believe it or not. I will admit the following. In comparison, Stages 1 and 2 are harder but not to the point where they override the difficulty present in the later stages. Stages 3-6 in my honest opinion, are around the same as the other games, with a few obvious exceptions like IN Stage 5.

Also, results now that I'm not getting any more responses. (~150 KB and 720x3600 or something like that)
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Re: Touhou Bitching/Whining Thread mk. 7
« Reply #933 on: June 22, 2010, 05:22:55 AM »

Re: Touhou Bitching/Whining Thread mk. 7
« Reply #934 on: June 22, 2010, 05:35:34 AM »
No, believe it or not. I will admit the following. In comparison, Stages 1 and 2 are harder but not to the point where they override the difficulty present in the later stages. Stages 3-6 in my honest opinion, are around the same as the other games, with a few obvious exceptions like IN Stage 5.

Hmmm... I've often wondered how much of a person's difficulty ranking is individual, and based on particular playing habits and strengths/weaknesses. I've always found the post-IN games to be significantly more difficult, overall, than the earlier ones, even though MoF often seems to be considered one of the easiest lunatics by many people. My 1cc of that was pretty much a fluke, as it was, I think.

Also, I think some of the survey questions were too loaded to really give good data. I mean, who really wants to say, essentially that  "I assume my death is rarely my own fault"

I find it interesting (though perhaps unsurprising) that the number of lunatic players is not only so much higher than the other difficulties, but so much higher than the relative percentages of people who have 1cc'd hard or higher in that giant survey, a while back. Presumably, this is just because the people who read this sub-forum are better players, on average, than the general Touhou community.

Also, oddly, despite how much complaining UFO gets, it received a higher rating than any other game except PCB. I wonder if some people thought they were rating the game's difficulty, and not how good they thought it was? Wait, we WERE rating how good we thought they were, weren't we?
« Last Edit: June 22, 2010, 05:44:12 AM by DracoOmega »

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Re: Touhou Bitching/Whining Thread mk. 7
« Reply #935 on: June 22, 2010, 06:02:06 AM »
Hmmm... I've often wondered how much of a person's difficulty ranking is individual, and based on particular playing habits and strengths/weaknesses. I've always found the post-IN games to be significantly more difficult, overall, than the earlier ones, even though MoF often seems to be considered one of the easiest lunatics by many people. My 1cc of that was pretty much a fluke, as it was, I think.
The MoF / SA / UFO bullet and control systems are all consistent, whereas all the other games follow their own unique controls; though to be on the "general" side of things, I group PCB and IN together as well.

Also, I think some of the survey questions were too loaded to really give good data. I mean, who really wants to say, essentially that  "I assume my death is rarely my own fault"
Quite. However, that question basically boils down to "I blame the game for killing me more, or I blame myself for killing myself in the process of dodging (or doing whatever)". If this isn't the case, I could always ask the question again; I'm technically free at this point to write up another survey.

Some of the questions were intentionally made obscure, just to see where everybody subjectively put themselves as players. In terms of being objective, I myself would have no idea where everybody would be placed, but it's a good way of finding out the proportion of players who think they put in adequate effort, and those who don't for instance.

I find it interesting (though perhaps unsurprising) that the number of lunatic players is not only so much higher than the other difficulties, but so much higher than the relative percentages of people who have 1cc'd hard or higher in that giant survey, a while back. Presumably, this is just because the people who read this sub-forum are better players, on average, than the general Touhou community.
This can be explained by the fact that I only appealed to HME, where the players are the ones who actively play the games to improve. I ended up doing this because I'm using a free account, thus the number of responses that I could receive were limited. If you know of any service that gives me the chance to collect unlimited responses and is free with "no strings attached", by all means suggest it.

Also, oddly, despite how much complaining UFO gets, it received a higher rating than any other game except PCB. I wonder if some people thought they were rating the game's difficulty, and not how good they thought it was? Wait, we WERE rating how good we thought they were, weren't we?
If we were talking about difficulties, I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't be seeing SoEW down there. StB got bad numbers as well, so this basically cements that everybody who took the survey knew that the question was asking how good do they think the game was.

That said, if I'm going to continue surveying, I'm better off splitting it off to another thread.
Spoiler:
Regardless of whether or not people are actually taking it seriously; hey it beats using my prediction model
.
Also, you're more than welcome to add questions of your own; it's generally better and easier to organize and do other things if one person keeps hosting the surveys.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2010, 06:14:58 AM by Baitikkuri »
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Bananamatic

Re: Touhou Bitching/Whining Thread mk. 7
« Reply #936 on: June 22, 2010, 10:16:21 AM »
I was the only one on question 6 because lol toohoo scoring :V

Re: Touhou Bitching/Whining Thread mk. 7
« Reply #937 on: June 22, 2010, 11:32:20 AM »
Okay, this turned out to be long. Hope people will sit through this wall.

Murasa is the easiest fourth stage boss in the series, which is unfortunate. Yes, Kogasa is hard. For somebody who always complains about how boring the earlier parts of these games are, you sure have some interesting opinions about the more... Entertaining stage two and three bosses.

Murasa being the easiest is quite debateable. Personally i manage Murasa quite well but then again, i manage pretty much any S4 boss quite well. Marisa would be a candidate for the easiest though. Only one actually difficult spellcard and some rather difficult non-spells. Murasa has one difficult non-spell and and her 3rd card. I don't know what is with that card but sometimes it seems easy and other times there is this little bullet that randomly gets spawned where i need to be and suddenly she gets harder than Marisa because Marisa doesn't do that.

As for my problem with S2 and S3:

Stage 3 is probably my greatest grudge against UFO. Take that out and i'd rate it 4/5 (rated it 3/5 in survey). The stage is long, its boring to play and there is too much you just have to learn.

Then you might argue that there is things you need to learn in IN and SA Stage 3 as well but that single part in those two stages that call for memorization are easily disposed of with a bomb. In UFO stage 3 you basically have to be perfect throughout the entire stage to make it through. Add to that the worst S3 boss of the entire series and i get a headache.

I'm even being told that Ichirin is easier than Alice but i'm almost consistently perfect on Alice outside of the occasional tapped a bit too hard on Spring Kyoto Dolls that might occur.

Stage 2 i wouldn't have such a big problem with if Kogasa's 1st spellcard didn't cheat so much. The best i have done is capturing it with ReimuA at 3xx power because i got lucky. It still often rapes me with 4 power and i don't stand a chance if i get there with 2xx or less.

And oh, mid-boss attack that isn't difficult by any means. Impossible to fail. Unless you hit that movement key a bit too hard. Not a valid complaint i know but still annoying as other stage 2 mid-bosses doesn't have that. (Here Chen or Hina would probably be best as they have some pretty fine (although easy) spellcards for their mid-boss appearance.

The problem with hard stage 2 and 3 bosses is simply that it will make 1cc'ing tedious like all hell.


Re: Touhou Bitching/Whining Thread mk. 7
« Reply #938 on: June 22, 2010, 12:33:18 PM »
IN Hard with Magic Team, I get to 6B with a good (for me) 1.35 billion and 7/0 despite a pretty bad stage 5... and proceed to fail/bomb nearly everything Kaguya has, and I'm down 4/0 I follow up by failing all her last spells with more than 10 seconds on the clock (that takes some skill) and barely hit 2 billion  :ohdear:

And thank you Baity! I've only uploaded a SP-9 replay to Royalflare back when there was a mysterious lack of good scores for it, but I'm otherwise not quite up to the level where I'd like to show my replays yet (see above!)
« Last Edit: June 22, 2010, 12:40:30 PM by Angel on the Steps »

Re: Touhou Bitching/Whining Thread mk. 7
« Reply #939 on: June 22, 2010, 03:57:03 PM »
Wasn't paying attention during the nonspell before Charming Siege so I get killed by it. A few more derps on nonspells. Timed out Unilateral Contact, holy shit. Die on survival with 1 second left. Enter Izuna Gongen with a spare life. Fuck up where I was when the timeout phase started so the misdirection failed. Die twice.

That was almost a true pacifist clear of Ran. Forgot to save the replay as well so I can't even upload that one timeout mentioned.

Re: Touhou Bitching/Whining Thread mk. 7
« Reply #940 on: June 22, 2010, 04:50:46 PM »
Also, results now that I'm not getting any more responses. (~150 KB and 720x3600 or something like that)

I find it hilarious that everyone complains about UFO, yet it was the only game on the list to get a 5 rating.

Iryan

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Re: Touhou Bitching/Whining Thread mk. 7
« Reply #941 on: June 22, 2010, 05:05:26 PM »
I find it hilarious that everyone complains about UFO, yet it was the only game on the list to get a 5 rating.
Meh, that is only the median. On average it comes second place after PCB. But yeah, I agree wholeheartedly.  :D
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Re: Touhou Bitching/Whining Thread mk. 7
« Reply #942 on: June 22, 2010, 05:24:01 PM »
Because UFO is an awesome game, it's just that it's hard as fuck.

brb 20 ragequits on S1 Lunatic, why do I suck at Gold Detector of all things.
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Re: Touhou Bitching/Whining Thread mk. 7
« Reply #943 on: June 22, 2010, 05:44:43 PM »
Holy crap, I beat Lunatic Murasa with 4 extra lives still left! I could actually 1cc this! I even capped Kogasa's second card, and Ichirin's first and last cards!

...and then the game crashes! Oh joy! ;_;
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

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Re: Touhou Bitching/Whining Thread mk. 7
« Reply #944 on: June 22, 2010, 06:03:48 PM »
Quote from: NeoSerela link=topic=5779.msg368924#msg368924   date=1277228683
Holy crap, I beat Lunatic Murasa with 4 extra lives   still left! I could actually 1cc this! I even capped Kogasa's second   card, and Ichirin's first and last cards!

...and then the game   crashes! Oh joy! ;_;

Because UFO is an awesome game
I think UFO is an awesome game too, er, vomits extends and doesn't afraid of anything...
*pichun.wav*

Got max lives, just to lose them all to FF in the end... =[

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Re: Touhou Bitching/Whining Thread mk. 7
« Reply #945 on: June 22, 2010, 08:01:34 PM »
I find it hilarious that everyone complains about UFO, yet it was the only game on the list to get a 5 rating.

Its very odd that there is only 4 that rates UFO below 4. I gave it 3 of 5 as the only person which means there is only three people who thinks lower of it. That is simply not consistent with the amount of people hating on it.

And how can anyone possibly give IN 1/5? I respect a persons opinion but this really weirds me out. (To be honest, how any of the windows games, ufo included, can get 1/5 mystifies me)

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Re: Touhou Bitching/Whining Thread mk. 7
« Reply #946 on: June 22, 2010, 08:44:13 PM »
5 derps again.

I can totally 1cc SA Lunatic if I just STOP DERPING.

Almost no-power capped Catwalk (or timed it out, at least) but I derped into the last bullet in the pattern.  Retarded.

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Re: Touhou Bitching/Whining Thread mk. 7
« Reply #947 on: June 22, 2010, 09:01:17 PM »
And how can anyone possibly give IN 1/5? I respect a persons opinion but this really weirds me out. (To be honest, how any of the windows games, ufo included, can get 1/5 mystifies me)

I haven't seen this survey, but for one, if it's a survey of what you think of the Touhou series, if we were all being a bunch of rabid Touhou fans and saying "BEST SERIES EVER 5/5!" for every game, it wouldn't give us any information on how the fanbase thinks about each game in comparison with one another.  In this sense, it makes sense that some games should be rated 1/5, not because they're the worst games ever, but because they're some of the worst within theTouhou series specifically.

That said, if I had to pick one of the Windows games to score 1/5, IN would easily be it.  It kinda feels to me like it lacks some of the inspiration of the other games.  Stages seem to be "here's a bunch of bullets now familiarcancel them".  Keine and Marisa are static bosses.  Reisen is a Stage 3 boss in Stage 5, though I have to give her credit for the "wow factor" that made her really awesome when I first started playing.  The game has Spell Practice, which is a definite plus, but the game lacks one of those "VoWG" masterpieces that I would really want to spam Spell Practice on (best I can think of would be SFN, but that's really a PCB card, which brings me back my "lack of inspiration" point).  And speaking of the lost potential for a new masterpiece, the final spellcard, Hourai Jewel.  Fucking Hourai Jewel.  Memorize this or die.  Worst final card ever.  (I suppose you could argue that LFO is another micromemorizable final card, but it's not necessary in that case, as it's plenty possible to survive LFO with on-the-fly dodging.)
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Bananamatic

Re: Touhou Bitching/Whining Thread mk. 7
« Reply #948 on: June 22, 2010, 09:23:29 PM »
then fight Eirin :V

Re: Touhou Bitching/Whining Thread mk. 7
« Reply #949 on: June 22, 2010, 09:41:49 PM »
Eirin also has a crappy memorize card as well. The fight is mostly fair, though not as fair as Kaguya's. Buddhist Diamond is more worthy of final card status than Hourai Jewel is though(though the HP would need to be increased for that). Though none of Kaguya's cards really deserve it. Maybe Rising World if it was changed from a survival, given a big health bar, and a longer timer.

Oh, and Eirin has a crappy final too as it can be trivialized and is still pretty easy to capture even without destroying familiars and is much easier than Hourai Jewel is. It flips in terms of timeouts though with Hourai Jewel being the easier timeout and Astronomical Entombing being the harder one.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2010, 09:44:07 PM by Enigma »

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Re: Touhou Bitching/Whining Thread mk. 7
« Reply #950 on: June 22, 2010, 09:45:15 PM »
imo Eirin lunatic has some stupid cards as well. Omoikane's Brain and Apollo 13 comes to mind.
Rising World is not survival - it's just that the timer is short.
I have trouble reading the huge shower of contaminated rice in Astronomical Entombment
It's probably because I'm not very good at dodging stuff though
« Last Edit: June 22, 2010, 09:47:45 PM by jsonchiu »

Bananamatic

Re: Touhou Bitching/Whining Thread mk. 7
« Reply #951 on: June 22, 2010, 09:49:56 PM »
Brain takes only one bomb. Same for Apollo if you do it correctly.

Can't memorize Hourai Jewel? Bomb. Again. And again.
It's much better when the stupid card isn't immune to bombs.

Re: Touhou Bitching/Whining Thread mk. 7
« Reply #952 on: June 22, 2010, 09:51:35 PM »
Omoikane is the memorize card in that fight. Even if you had it memorized, it's easier to screw up than Hourai Jewel is.

Apollo 13 is completely fair, just extremely hard.

And how is Rising World not survival? You can't even hurt her, plus your shot doesn't reach her anyway, and the only way to clear the spell is to time it out. It would be a crazy spell though with a longer timer + having to actually kill it if the phases lasted longer or were changed.

Re: Touhou Bitching/Whining Thread mk. 7
« Reply #953 on: June 22, 2010, 09:58:46 PM »
What Krim said.

Even if you had to give ratings based on Touhou specifically i would bundle up IN together with SoEW. I would probably rate UFO lower though.

Directed at Baity: Do i then miss the point of the give-ratings part of the survey? Was it meant to be interpreted as rating the games compared to the other Touhou games or was it supposed to be rating the games compared to games in general? I went with the latter (comes with being a controversial critic of video games on danish gaming sites: :] )

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Re: Touhou Bitching/Whining Thread mk. 7
« Reply #954 on: June 22, 2010, 10:28:09 PM »
Meh, that is only the median mode. On average it comes second place after PCB. But yeah, I agree wholeheartedly.  :D
Fixed. The median is still 4 for both PCB and UFO. The mode's are different, and the mean values make it so that PCB is the better rated between that and UFO.

then fight Eirin :V
AstroHa ha, old chap!ical Entombing is a pretty anti-climatic Spell Card to finish things off outside of the Last Spells.

Quote
"Hourai Jewel"
Spell Practice exists for cards such as these. Just a note if Spell Practice comes back, you can certainly expect a lot more Spell Cards such as these to appear. Just a thought that occurred; it's the reason why Spell Practice was introduced for IN in the first place.

And thank you Baity! I've only uploaded a SP-9 replay to Royalflare back when there was a mysterious lack of good scores for it, but I'm otherwise not quite up to the level where I'd like to show my replays yet (see above!)
Well, it's understandable. As a sidenote, the mysterious lack of scores earlier on is because SP-9 required quite a bit of luck to get a fairly high score. And probably the fact that the other Scenes were being filled up first.

Directed at Baity: Do i then miss the point of the give-ratings part of the survey? Was it meant to be interpreted as rating the games compared to the other Touhou games or was it supposed to be rating the games compared to games in general? I went with the latter (comes with being a controversial critic of video games on danish gaming sites: :] )
I was aiming more for the latter; but in this case it wouldn't matter because I appealed to the players who know how to critique to an extent, so I wouldn't get those useless hurf durf 5/5 everything because it's Touhou.

On that note, I would like to vent about my terrible playing skills yesterday. Across multiple games too.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2010, 10:30:17 PM by Baitikkuri »
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<>
[07:59] <Sapz> ベーティさんは馬鹿っぽいだろう、この「っぽい」好き者

Re: Touhou Bitching/Whining Thread mk. 7
« Reply #955 on: June 22, 2010, 10:32:52 PM »
On that note, I would like to vent about my terrible playing skills yesterday. Across multiple games too.

applies for me today

this is absolutely garbage, worst playing in weeks

Re: Touhou Bitching/Whining Thread mk. 7
« Reply #956 on: June 22, 2010, 11:48:25 PM »
I was aiming more for the latter; but in this case it wouldn't matter because I appealed to the players who know how to critique to an extent, so I wouldn't get those useless hurf durf 5/5 everything because it's Touhou.

Okay. Its still hard to imagine a Touhou game getting 1/5 though. Even SoEW. And all the PC games do have a certain level of quality. Maybe some people haven't been completely fair with their ratings but i dunno.

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Re: Touhou Bitching/Whining Thread mk. 7
« Reply #957 on: June 22, 2010, 11:50:39 PM »
I gave PoFV a 1/5 because I truly do dislike the game. The only saving grace is Shikieiki's badass dialogue, but you have to go through the entire story mode for that. :[

Speaking of whcih, guess what I foolishly played today (normal, Medicine, 1cc'd just barely).
nintendonut888: Hey Baity. I beat the high score for Sanae B hard on the score.dat you sent me. X3
Baity: For a moment, I thought you broke 1.1billion. Upon looking at my score.dat, I can assume that you destroyed the score that is my failed (first!) 1cc attempt on my first day of playing. Congratulations.

[19:42] <Sapz> I think that's the only time I've ever seen a suicide bullet shoot its own suicide bullet

ebarrett

Re: Touhou Bitching/Whining Thread mk. 7
« Reply #958 on: June 23, 2010, 01:02:46 AM »
"Guilty" of giving 4/5 to UFO despite being completely inept at it

I like UFO a lot more than it likes me, honest

MTSranger

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Re: Touhou Bitching/Whining Thread mk. 7
« Reply #959 on: June 23, 2010, 02:39:51 AM »
Damn it. Almost beat the 3rd phase of subterranean rose.
Somehow feel so claustrophobic when facing those long chain of roses and *derp* death with 4 bombs in stock.
Maybe I should try timing it out on the first phase... 190 seconds = so freaking long.
On the bright side, I killed Genetics in 40 seconds! No more stupid 99-second time out.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2010, 02:44:13 AM by jsonchiu »