Author Topic: Official Touhou Project Magazine 2016: w/ Uni Akiyama and ZUN's music CD  (Read 167771 times)

Drake

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Re: Official Touhou Project Magazine 2016: w/ Uni Akiyama and ZUN's music CD
« Reply #150 on: September 16, 2016, 09:01:58 AM »
i'm so mad that i'm never gonna buy any of tasofro's future games, unlike the existing games that i totally bought

A Colorful Calculating Creative and Cuddly Crafty Callipygous Clever Commander
- original art by Aiけん | ウサホリ -

Re: Official Touhou Project Magazine 2016: w/ Uni Akiyama and ZUN's music CD
« Reply #151 on: September 16, 2016, 10:28:52 AM »
I still don't think what they did constitutes this much melodrama, to be honest.

And I'm sure that Tasogare certainly going to miss your continued patronage, assuming you even purchased a physical copy of ULiL in the first place.

Just exactly what I thought. I don't think this whole PS4 exclusive content drama should happened in the first place, but it happened.

All this makes it seems like it's the developers fault which I don't think that's the case.

They just want to expand the reach of touhou games and since Zun doesn't want the completely same game in the console, he just added something, there.



Still, the bottom-line of the story is that you're going to pay if you want to experience the story beyond reading it on a wiki, something that should be normal on every game.

Yet this whole drama says like it should not be like that. Go figure.

Critz

  • Heartwarming ★ Miracle
Re: Official Touhou Project Magazine 2016: w/ Uni Akiyama and ZUN's music CD
« Reply #152 on: September 16, 2016, 05:30:21 PM »
Well, I'm not as mad at not getting Reisen herself - I already got my fix of her in a superior fighter.  :V

What *does* irk me is the lack of crossplay. ULiL doesn't really have the player base to spare for another version that is incompatible with the more easily accessible one.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2016, 05:32:05 PM by Critz »

FearNagae

  • Hisouten/soku Enthusiast
Re: Official Touhou Project Magazine 2016: w/ Uni Akiyama and ZUN's music CD
« Reply #153 on: September 16, 2016, 06:39:29 PM »
Can I trade one of my ULiL CD with a PS4 one?

Damn, even if I bought a PS4 just for this, PS4 is still very hard to setup for meetups and we'd not be able to play anyways.

Quote
What *does* irk me is the lack of crossplay. ULiL doesn't really have the player base to spare for another version that is incompatible with the more easily accessible one.
Yeah I mentioned this is one of my biggest issue with this. As a side effect nobody would be bothered to play the previous version as well.
Though well, I guess stick to soku as always.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2016, 06:45:26 PM by FearNagae »

Drake

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Re: Official Touhou Project Magazine 2016: w/ Uni Akiyama and ZUN's music CD
« Reply #154 on: September 16, 2016, 06:44:38 PM »
That still kind of suggests that Tasofro somehow doesn't have their own interest in keeping as much of their playerbase as possible. Like as if they never thought no crossplay would be a problem and then whoops turns out one of the most obvious decisions ever cripples their game how did that happen. I doubt that's the case.

A Colorful Calculating Creative and Cuddly Crafty Callipygous Clever Commander
- original art by Aiけん | ウサホリ -

FearNagae

  • Hisouten/soku Enthusiast
Re: Official Touhou Project Magazine 2016: w/ Uni Akiyama and ZUN's music CD
« Reply #155 on: September 16, 2016, 06:48:35 PM »
That still kind of suggests that Tasofro somehow doesn't have their own interest in keeping as much of their playerbase as possible. Like as if they never thought no crossplay would be a problem and then whoops turns out one of the most obvious decisions ever cripples their game how did that happen. I doubt that's the case.

iirc it was implied they couldn't make it. But in the first place, ULiL playerbase is very tiny to begin with, so maybe they just decide to sacrifice this or even went to PS4 to cover their deficit. And I wouldn't say that is wrong, but still...
They usually their playerbase quite fine, but I guess shit happens.

Though of course this is just one of the assumption. They obviously do not harbor ill intentions or trying to ignore their playerbase, so this could be one of their attempt at grabbing more players (which went wrong).
« Last Edit: September 16, 2016, 06:54:31 PM by FearNagae »

Critz

  • Heartwarming ★ Miracle
Re: Official Touhou Project Magazine 2016: w/ Uni Akiyama and ZUN's music CD
« Reply #156 on: September 16, 2016, 08:46:04 PM »
That still kind of suggests that Tasofro somehow doesn't have their own interest in keeping as much of their playerbase as possible. Like as if they never thought no crossplay would be a problem and then whoops turns out one of the most obvious decisions ever cripples their game how did that happen. I doubt that's the case.
Obviously, I was saying that it sucks from the perspective of the fans. If this port ends up making them money despite the lack of crossplay, good for them. Especially if it helps them make a proper next game for their main fanbase. If not, it's not like they lost too many manhours programming and spiriting a single character to begin with.

Drake

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Re: Official Touhou Project Magazine 2016: w/ Uni Akiyama and ZUN's music CD
« Reply #157 on: September 16, 2016, 09:00:10 PM »
Both of you are still assuming that they're losing players at all. Obviously from our standpoint where PS4 ownership isn't that great and a JP PSN account would be required, a lot of overseas players won't end up playing for one reason or another, which is where 90% of this drama is even coming from. But the console situation is different in Japan, and this should be immediately apparent from the decision to publish towards console releases as opposed to the west whose trend has largely been towards moving traditionally-console games onto the PC, where specs have a high ceiling and average, and centralization of users is a major factor. If the climate were the same as in the US, PlayDoujin's model wouldn't be what it is. It is entirely possible that there could even be a net gain in players, and yet people seem to be convinced that this was a losing decision right out of the gate.

A Colorful Calculating Creative and Cuddly Crafty Callipygous Clever Commander
- original art by Aiけん | ウサホリ -

Re: Official Touhou Project Magazine 2016: w/ Uni Akiyama and ZUN's music CD
« Reply #158 on: September 16, 2016, 10:57:27 PM »
To be fair, the PS4 isn't exactly doing hot in Japan either, and I'd imagine at least half the point of the Play Doujin push is to get more people to buy PS4s.

If not, it's not like they lost too many manhours programming and spiriting a single character to begin with.
In regards to the workload though, porting a game isn't easy at all for a small group that's never done it before. Unless they specifically coded it in a way designed to be easily ported, which I doubt they did, then they basically have to start from scratch. And to top it off they have to get used to whatever programming idiosyncrasies the PS4 almost certainly has, that again none of them would be familiar with. It's a huge project on their part that marks a desire to expand their horizons and skillsets.

This is kind of exactly why ZUN said he'd never consider doing it on his own. It's just an awful lot of work that isn't as visible to the audience, that he'd much rather spend making something entirely new.

Drake

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Re: Official Touhou Project Magazine 2016: w/ Uni Akiyama and ZUN's music CD
« Reply #159 on: September 17, 2016, 12:10:45 AM »
To be fair, the PS4 isn't exactly doing hot in Japan either, and I'd imagine at least half the point of the Play Doujin push is to get more people to buy PS4s.
Sure, but the fairness is in not assuming the playerbase will be decimated from poor ownership when the only complaints I've seen of that is from our side.

A Colorful Calculating Creative and Cuddly Crafty Callipygous Clever Commander
- original art by Aiけん | ウサホリ -

FearNagae

  • Hisouten/soku Enthusiast
Re: Official Touhou Project Magazine 2016: w/ Uni Akiyama and ZUN's music CD
« Reply #160 on: September 17, 2016, 01:39:35 AM »
Well, the game is already dead in Japan. I didn't mention poor ownership of PS4 as a reason to the game dying. But I'll stop here because it isn't really a big deal anyways.

_dk

Re: Official Touhou Project Magazine 2016: w/ Uni Akiyama and ZUN's music CD
« Reply #161 on: September 20, 2016, 08:04:18 AM »
There's a lot of confusion and negativity about Tasofro for some reason. So I translated their interview from the first issue of the magazine in 2015:

https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Strange_Creators_of_Outer_World/Urban_Legend_in_Limbo_interview_with_Iruka_Unabara

N-Forza

  • Information Superhighway Robbery
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  • I said it was a steal, but not for whom
Re: Official Touhou Project Magazine 2016: w/ Uni Akiyama and ZUN's music CD
« Reply #162 on: September 20, 2016, 09:56:22 AM »
Well, the game is already dead in Japan. I didn't mention poor ownership of PS4 as a reason to the game dying.
"The things you call dead haven't yet had the chance to be born." -- Scatman John

Drake

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Re: Official Touhou Project Magazine 2016: w/ Uni Akiyama and ZUN's music CD
« Reply #163 on: September 28, 2016, 01:36:33 PM »
So, today's Nikenme Radio might be more interesting than I expected.

EDIT: Moved to new thread! https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,19900.0/topicseen.html
« Last Edit: October 16, 2016, 02:58:15 AM by Drake »

A Colorful Calculating Creative and Cuddly Crafty Callipygous Clever Commander
- original art by Aiけん | ウサホリ -

PK

  • Border of Whatever
Re: Official Touhou Project Magazine 2016: w/ Uni Akiyama and ZUN's music CD
« Reply #164 on: December 26, 2016, 08:55:30 PM »
Since i don't see this anywhere here, have some info from TH Project Archival about Dec 23 Nikenme Radio.
Quote
Just a quick report for now. Summary of an offline event "Nikenme Radio VR" that ZUN participated in on the 23rd.

1. Volume 3 of Strange Creators of Outer World is scheduled to be released on March 2nd next year.
2. The cover art features Reimu and Kasen
3. Based on ZUN's words during the event, apparently there'll be a new game from him before AoCF comes out. He's currently working on both games in parallel.
4. He also mentioned that he'll be releasing new stuffs on a faster pace for 2017

More informations about this will probably be revealed on the next Nikenme Radio event.

Source: https://twitter.com/korindo/status/812204212431900672

-CurrentlyBusy,SoSorryForTheMinimalDetails-Monhan

Good to know!

ZM

  • Overly Eager
  • Sanae~
Re: Official Touhou Project Magazine 2016: w/ Uni Akiyama and ZUN's music CD
« Reply #165 on: December 26, 2016, 09:24:40 PM »
Considering ZUN hasn't worked on two sidegames at once since 2010, and there's already a two year gap between main games (LoLK in 2015, and now the new game coming in 2017), it's safe to assume that this game he's working on alongside AoCF is th16!

Failure McFailFace

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Re: Official Touhou Project Magazine 2016: w/ Uni Akiyama and ZUN's music CD
« Reply #166 on: December 27, 2016, 05:31:05 AM »
Quote
3. Based on ZUN's words during the event, apparently there'll be a new game from him before AoCF comes out. He's currently working on both games in parallel.
FINALLY
something that's not a fighting game or a ludicrously hard shooter
ddc is still pretty hard
1cc Easy: DDC (all) | 1cc Normal: UFO (SanA autobomb),  DDC (ReiA, SakA) , LoLK (Sanae PD)| EX clears: DDC (MarB Ultra) | Puzzle Games: StB: 10-X, DS: Hatate unlock, ISC: All clear

Camilo113

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Re: Official Touhou Project Magazine 2016: w/ Uni Akiyama and ZUN's music CD
« Reply #167 on: December 27, 2016, 06:17:45 PM »
FINALLY
something that's not a fighting game or a ludicrously hard shooter
ddc is still pretty hard
Curious how you assumed the game was not going to be hard based on the information.

Failure McFailFace

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Re: Official Touhou Project Magazine 2016: w/ Uni Akiyama and ZUN's music CD
« Reply #168 on: December 27, 2016, 06:28:21 PM »
Curious how you assumed the game was not going to be hard based on the information.
At this point, it's just wishful thinking for an easier Touhou game.
1cc Easy: DDC (all) | 1cc Normal: UFO (SanA autobomb),  DDC (ReiA, SakA) , LoLK (Sanae PD)| EX clears: DDC (MarB Ultra) | Puzzle Games: StB: 10-X, DS: Hatate unlock, ISC: All clear

Re: Official Touhou Project Magazine 2016: w/ Uni Akiyama and ZUN's music CD
« Reply #169 on: December 29, 2016, 10:57:43 PM »
Curious how you assumed the game was not going to be hard based on the information.

While we don't know anything for certain, based on interviews with ZUN it seems likely that LoLK's difficulty level was specific to that game, rather than something that he is likely to pursue more generally.

Failure McFailFace

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Re: Official Touhou Project Magazine 2016: w/ Uni Akiyama and ZUN's music CD
« Reply #170 on: December 30, 2016, 02:56:22 AM »
While we don't know anything for certain, based on interviews with ZUN it seems likely that LoLK's difficulty level was specific to that game, rather than something that he is likely to pursue more generally.
Well, then again, SA to TD were leaning heavily to the "hard" side of difficulty, dialed back for DDC, then back to hard for LoLK.

I'm just hoping fro a game that I can 1cc normal easily eventually.
1cc Easy: DDC (all) | 1cc Normal: UFO (SanA autobomb),  DDC (ReiA, SakA) , LoLK (Sanae PD)| EX clears: DDC (MarB Ultra) | Puzzle Games: StB: 10-X, DS: Hatate unlock, ISC: All clear

Helepolis

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Re: Official Touhou Project Magazine 2016: w/ Uni Akiyama and ZUN's music CD
« Reply #171 on: December 30, 2016, 08:20:14 AM »
I'm just hoping fro a game that I can 1cc normal easily eventually.
Imagine if you had to effort to beat a challenging game.

What is it with people these days who want to beat every game quickly with minimum effort. So does beating a ~30min on your first try give you that satisfaction? Unlocking Extra and beating Extra also on the first try? The complaints will never end because everybody is a critic and a better game designer.

Marron

  • Ordinary crow
Re: Official Touhou Project Magazine 2016: w/ Uni Akiyama and ZUN's music CD
« Reply #172 on: December 30, 2016, 10:18:01 AM »
I think a game that has a balanced difficulty would be what I would like the most. I mean, imo TD was cool because you weren't "forced" to abuse some sort of game mechanism like DDC's bomb, LOLK's life, UFOS'...ufo. I mean, okay, you could play those games on hard, sure but you can hardly 1CC them on luna without spamming the game mechanisms. It's not new, actually it was already the case with PCB and the supernatural border, but it was less active and clearing the game on luna without supernatural border is not impossible.

I love MS, EOSD and SA because you mostly have to rely on your skills and memory of the paterns, not game mechanisms.

Drake

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Re: Official Touhou Project Magazine 2016: w/ Uni Akiyama and ZUN's music CD
« Reply #173 on: December 30, 2016, 12:03:08 PM »
In TD you get basically twice the resource parts with Trance and you have to know where to use it. In DDC you can get 2.0s all day without bombs perfectly fine, even if you still have to be able to get around the patterns (which is what you're advocating for?). MS you have to run all over to grab all the point items (as also in PCB), plus you have rank. EoSD has literally no mechanic to even consider besides rank because regular play gets you all the resources. SA does little besides having a pool of resources for you and taking away those resources for dying. UFO showers you with resources if you can game it and even conservatively gives you resources comparable to other games, plus screen clears; you just have to not kill yourself when being aggressive (which again, is what you want?)

You always have to play to the mechanics. All of these mechanics force you to play to them to some degree (besides EoSD). I'm not sure if you're really talking about the mechanics or the games' raw difficulties or what but this doesn't seem right to me at all.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2016, 12:06:34 PM by Drake »

A Colorful Calculating Creative and Cuddly Crafty Callipygous Clever Commander
- original art by Aiけん | ウサホリ -

Serela

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Re: Official Touhou Project Magazine 2016: w/ Uni Akiyama and ZUN's music CD
« Reply #174 on: December 30, 2016, 03:26:16 PM »
No, I get that. Collecting falling point items is, sure, playing to the mechanic, but it doesn't get in the way much.. DDC on the other hand wants you to jump into PoC every 10 seconds even though the screen is flooded with bullets. Often it's a choice of using a bomb to get that life piece, making a very dangerous dodge, or just watching your potential life piece sink down the drain- wheras in the score/item based games the points you can't pick up due to safety generally don't even result in any missed resources. Even UFO doesn't take much dangerous play in comparison.

TBH DDC's is the only one that bothers me much though. I liked LoLK's graze system and my issue with UFO isn't the system so much as it's INSANELY HARD "balanced" by DROWNING IN A MILLION RESOURCES. I love UFO, it's got really neat/fun spellcards and stuff, but dang is it hard. MarisaB where you can't kill everything with a bomb makes it clear.
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Marron

  • Ordinary crow
Re: Official Touhou Project Magazine 2016: w/ Uni Akiyama and ZUN's music CD
« Reply #175 on: December 30, 2016, 04:26:00 PM »
Yeah Serela, that's what I was trying to say. So, as for the next game, I would really appreciate a game that reuse the simple "falling items" thing, or if there should be a new system of collecting bonuses, something like TD(yeah, the mechanics of that game didn't really disturb me).

As much as I would like to get a Phantasmagoria, it would be asking too much since Zun doesn't seem to be intetested by these kind of games anymore.

ZM

  • Overly Eager
  • Sanae~
Re: Official Touhou Project Magazine 2016: w/ Uni Akiyama and ZUN's music CD
« Reply #176 on: December 30, 2016, 04:55:07 PM »
Imagine if you had to effort to beat a challenging game.

What is it with people these days who want to beat every game quickly with minimum effort. So does beating a ~30min on your first try give you that satisfaction? Unlocking Extra and beating Extra also on the first try? The complaints will never end because everybody is a critic and a better game designer.

Not like LoLK is difficult to clear, anyway. Reisen's bomb is insanely good for tanking and Sanae bombskips everything in the game with ease. Pattern-wise it's the toughest, but the game gives you a plethora of resources that it's one of the simplest clears.

th16 should be easier than LoLK pattern-wise, though.

I liked LoLK's graze system and my issue with UFO isn't the system so much as it's INSANELY HARD "balanced" by DROWNING IN A MILLION RESOURCES. I love UFO, it's got really neat/fun spellcards and stuff, but dang is it hard. MarisaB where you can't kill everything with a bomb makes it clear.

UFO is pretty difficult, yes. MarisaB's bomb, though, is more of a resource bomb than a bombskipping one. That's why it's insanely good on stages and really poor against bosses.

Mino ☆

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Re: Official Touhou Project Magazine 2016: w/ Uni Akiyama and ZUN's music CD
« Reply #177 on: December 30, 2016, 05:22:31 PM »
No, I get that. Collecting falling point items is, sure, playing to the mechanic, but it doesn't get in the way much.. DDC on the other hand wants you to jump into PoC every 10 seconds even though the screen is flooded with bullets. Often it's a choice of using a bomb to get that life piece, making a very dangerous dodge, or just watching your potential life piece sink down the drain- wheras in the score/item based games the points you can't pick up due to safety generally don't even result in any missed resources. Even UFO doesn't take much dangerous play in comparison.

Part of the fun in DDC is learning the routes to get better resources. A lot of those dangerous bonuses aren't dangerous once you go into practice, watch replays, and really learn the tricks to get them. Some of them are meant to be bombed, yes (for example, the spam section in stage 4), but even then, there are shottypes who can reasonably collect many 2.0s even without bombing (ReimuA). If you're still having trouble, DDC spoils the player with utterly broken shottypes like SakuyaA who can cheese bosses by slowing them down and making them fire at a lesser rate. And MarisaB who can basically completely destroy to game by getting endless 2.0s.

I think that DDC's system was a very unique idea and it was clear that ZUN was trying new things. The whole "number of items" you collect during PoCs can be very interesting especially when you can chain multiple bonuses for lots of resources (like getting back to back 2.0s and such). It even shows its brilliance in scoreplay with chains like the stage 5 post-midboss 2.0 chain with ReimuA.

If anything, I'd complain that DDC is too generous with the resources, as it can turn into a bombspammy broken mess very easily. But alas, such is the way.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2016, 05:25:01 PM by Mino ☆ »

Re: Official Touhou Project Magazine 2016: w/ Uni Akiyama and ZUN's music CD
« Reply #178 on: December 30, 2016, 05:40:42 PM »
Honestly, I said the same thing shortly after LoLK came out. "I hope the next game is a breather from the insane difficulty". I don't think anyone wants a game that they can beat in 30 minutes. I think what they're saying is, "I want a game like MS/EoSD/SA. A game that you can beat without resource abuse."

In UFO/DDC/LoLK, unless you're a *super player*, you're really forced to bombspam/ufo spam if you want to have any hope of clearing the game. Actually capturing some patterns is way beyond the skill level of most people. In comparison, SA/EoSD/MS have easier patterns but have less of a focus on resource spam.

Granted LoLK is a super fun game imo, it'd just be nice to have a more straightforward game that most people can beat without having to bomb every pattern for a change. Just for a breath of fresh air.
My name is Tres. It sounds like "Tray". Tressert is "Tray-zurt"; like Tres dessert.
I've cleared every touhou game on Lunatic, and beaten every extra except SoEW.
NMNB: MoF Hard, SA Extra, UFO Extra

Chill Observer

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Re: Official Touhou Project Magazine 2016: w/ Uni Akiyama and ZUN's music CD
« Reply #179 on: December 30, 2016, 05:45:58 PM »
I have to agree. Bullet hells aren't even bullet hells if all you do is just bombspam everything and 1cc anyway. Nowadays I can 1cc normal in 1 try, bombspam or not, and I can't even do lunatic yet.

Most games do give enough resources to let you do that, keep that in mind! I want to rely less on resources and more on dodging since that's where the fun lies.

There's a reason people love to do things like no bomb, or no miss, or both at the same time.
Retired Touhou player. Not involved with anything Touhou anymore.