Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread

[Tamer Anode/Cathode]

I've been wanting to start playing Pauper (the Magic format where you can only play commons) lately, although no place around here runs it regularly that I'm aware of. Does anyone have much experience with it?

I kind of want to try a Pestilence deck but I'm not clear on how it matches up against most of the metagame. Burn seems like it would be very common given the high-quality burn spells and lack of Kor Firewalkers and I can't really easily envision how Pestilence beats burn. I guess most of the sideboard could probably be dedicated to that matchup.

Monored has a lot of options going for it, especially since Thermo-Alchemist got printed in the summer. Apparently the main advantage Pestilence can get over burn is a lot of incidental lifegain to last into the long game. If you're doing the W/B build, you get access to Prismatic Strands which lets you nullify damage for a turn.

I've been wanting to tune my old modern stompy deck into a pauper deck for a while since I already have the expensive pieces like Rancor already.

[MatsuriSakuragi]

I play Pauper! It's actually one of my favorite formats because there's a surprising amount of versatility at the common level (especially when you have access to cards that are considered super broken by today's standards).

If you'd believe it, Burn isn't actually one of the most common decks, relatively speaking. That honor goes to Stompy (definitely a good choice, TAC), Delver (that's what I play!), Tron, and Affinity.

I suspect the reason why Burn isn't a super prevalent deck in Pauper is because Blue is actually a strong color in Pauper with access to Counterspell, Hydroblast, Force Spike, and so on. White also has Circles of Protection-- so Red is actually pretty poorly placed in the meta if not combined with another color to support it.

If I ever get a chance to play competitively, I'd be playing Delver, but I also have Selesnya Soul Sisters (which revolves around tokens and the Midnight Guard/Presence of Gond combo), Izzet Blitz, and a Golgari pseudo-Dredge deck as well (basically, use Stinkweed Imp for dredge and take advantage of that with Delve cards like Gurmag Angler-- having beasts like that out on turn 2 is crazy).


Meanwhile, MM17 spoilers started today and it may be the thing that gets me back into competitive Magic. It's only the first day and WotC is swinging for the fences, announcing reprints of Goblin Guide, Damnation, and the motherfucking enemy fetch lands all at rare level. Holy shit, are those prices gonna drop. I may finally be able to build the 8-whack deck I've been wanting to build, and be able to spice up some of my other decks now that fetch land prices are going to be less idiotic.

From Wizards:

Modern Masters 2017 is a bit different from previous Masters sets. Modern Masters, Modern Masters 2015, and Eternal Masters were set up with ten color pairs, with archetypes (Black-Green Elves and White-Blue Artifacts, for example) built into those color pairs.

The biggest difference with Modern Masters 2017 is that it's a heavily multicolor set. Specifically, the set is built around the five ally color pairs, each with their own strategy:

White-Blue Blink?Use creatures with enter-the-battlefield abilities and ways to reuse these abilities
Blue-Black Instant Control?Use lots of instants and counterspells to control the board
Black-Red Unearth?An aggressive deck that uses creatures with unearth to keep attacking
Red-Green Go Wide?Make tokens and use cards that make them all bigger
Green-White Populate?Take advantage of the populate mechanic from Return to Ravnica

yessssss my Azorius Blink strategies gettin' some love

[commandercool]

Yeah, a monoblack or W/B Pestilence deck seems like it's worth trying. I think I already own a lot of it, so it shouldn't be expensive. Just not sure when I'd get a chance to play it.

Those metagame numbers are actually really really good. No single dominant deck by a long stretch. Not even really a dominant strategy.

[MatsuriSakuragi]

Mono-black Control used to be *huge* for a while. It seems to have dipped in popularity ever since that god-awful Peregrine Drake was banned, though. I dunno why it has, because it's a fantastic deck.

What are your plans for a Pestilence deck? I'm not very familiar with it.

[commandercool]

Most Pestilence decks seem like they go all-in on keeping Pestilence around with pro-black creatures and walls, and try to win with Pestilence burn combined with Corrupt (which then lets you burn even more by helping race against the symmetrical damage from your own Pestilence).

That seems sketchy as hell to me since it seems slow and doesn't really have a way to win if your Pestilence never shows up or gets countered. I'm considering more of a hybrid mono-black control with Pestilence support (walls and lifegain), maybe even with more of a focus on Crypt Rats. Basically repeatable sweepers seem too good not to play in a creature-heavy format, but hinging a whole strategy around Pestilence seems unreliable.

Ideally I want singleton utility packages at three and four mana to go with Dimir House Guard and Dimir Machinations, which can search up Crypt Rats and Pestilence. Thinking general mono-black stuff (removal, discard) but with a focus on incidental lifegain, the ability to sweep and grind out with Pestilence effects, and that's built to take advantage of rituals since there are several good ones in the format.

[MatsuriSakuragi]

Snapcaster reprint confirmed. Also looks like the Command and the Miracle cycles are also coming back (with Cryptic Command and Entreat the Angels not spoiled yet but I feel they will be).

Ranger of Eos reprints are cool, they were one of the most expensive pieces of Soul Sisters, but I have a playset already

Path to Exile and Inquisition of Kozilek reprints. That is all.

Grafdigger's Cage also getting a much-needed reprint as well.

Hot damn, MM17 makes me actually want to play again.

EDIT: Stony Silence, too. Hot damn.

EDIT 2: HOLY SHIT LINVALA, KEEPER OF SILENCE REPRINT my god this set is just insane, hardly anything so far is irrelevant to the current meta-- it's either spot-on VERY MUCH NEEDED reprints of extremely expensive cards, or good reprints that fit well within the meta. Very few pointless ones so far.

[commandercool]

It's probably in their best interest to put the very best stuff up front. There will be plenty of pointless filler I'm sure, it's just going to be a matter of how much of it, and how good the good stuff is (so far looks very good).

Ideally the filler rares would be at least mid-value Commander stuff. Darksteel Plate, Cyclonic Rift, Contagion Engine, maybe Lightning Greaves in a rare slot, and some popular older commanders just to get a few more foil copies out there.

[MatsuriSakuragi]

I have to wonder. WotC got slammed pretty hard over MM15 being full of useless bulk and pointless filler and valueless uncommons/commons, so I'm optimistic that they'll be learning from that mistake. I fully expect to see some decent stuff in the uncommons and commons, and I really hope Pauper gets some nice stuff rarity-shifted to common to give the format a nice kick in the ass.

As far as Commander goes... well, Zur the Enchanter is getting a reprint?

EDIT: Seance and Entreat the Angels is in. Called it lol

Phantasmal Image, too! Nice.

[Tamer Anode/Cathode]

on the topic of "Commander stuff" getting reprinted they put in Craterhoof Behemoth in a mythic slot sooooooooo

Death's Shadow is a pretty exciting reprint, that's a fairly relevant card right now.

Given the shard focus in this set I will be extremely, extremely surprised if we don't see Nacatl as a later reveal

[commandercool]

Craterhoof sees play in literally all formats, doesn't it?

What is the state of Death's Shadow right now? I know people said Shadow Zoo was dead after Gitaxian Probe got banned, but I hear Death's Shadow Midrange is a thing since then.

[MatsuriSakuragi]

I'm a little disappointed to see staples of Death's Shadow Zoo and Storm decks being reprinted since they're both rather unfair and unfun decks to face, but eh.

Meanwhile, Lili is back, to no one's surprise. I'd like to have her too.

I'm honestly surprised to not see any reprints of Affinity and Merfolk deck staples yet. Inkmoth Nexus, Mox Opal, Glimmervoid, Arcbound Ravager, Aether Vial (I'm gonna be so pissed if this gets a reprint at uncommon after spending so much on my playset), Cavern of Souls, etc. Scapeshift is inevitable, as is Ad Nauseam. I also would not be surprised to see Fulminator Mage and everyone's favorite chase rare Tarmogoyf too.

I would not be surprised to see Blood Moon and Ensnaring Bridge as well, but fuck those cards.

[commandercool]

Can we get Chromatic Star and Mishra's Bauble in there?

Did Mortician Beetle get downgraded all thexway from rare to common? Christ. That's probably Pauper-relevant. Burning-Tree Emissary and Magma Jet down to common too? Those are both super relevant.

[MatsuriSakuragi]

I think there's already something like Mortician Beetle at common, but I'm not entirely sure. Similar, at least.

Burning Tree Emissary might be nice for some Pauper Combo decks. Storm's not as broken in pauper due to Grapeshot being banned, so it'd be interesting to see it work there.

[commandercool]

Are there even any common Storm win conditions left? Empty The Warrens and Temporal Rift are banned too. All that's left is weird stuff like Reaping The Graves.

That said, Burning-Tree Emissary is still totally playable as a fair card.

[MatsuriSakuragi]

Yes, using Sprouting Vines. Basically combo off with storm staples and build up your mana pool with Inner Fire, storm in Sprouting Vines and Tolarian Winds it away to hopefully get more Inner Fire and a Kaervek's Torch to be the finishing blow. It's clunky, but neat because Storm isn't the win condition, it's a combo piece. Build up your mana, fill up your hand, trade it away, then skyrocket your mana to be within kill range.

[MatsuriSakuragi]

Terminus, Gifts Ungiven, Scavenging Ooze, and Lingering Souls added.

To be real honest, I kind of want to draft MM17. My god, it's like they literally poured everyone's favorite high demand cards into one set.

EDIT: Voice of Resurgence now, too. Good god.

I'm kind of pondering if it's possible to make Miracles a thing in Modern. Sure, it's super hard because we don't have Sensei's Divining Top or Brainstorm to work with, but surely there has to be some way to make it work, right?

EDIT 2: Blood Moon confirmed. Fuck, just let that card die already. And it's at *normal rare* level too.

...well, at the very least, if the price drops enough, I may pick up some and join in because I'm spiteful like that and if I have to suffer through it, I should be able to make others suffer through it too.

[commandercool]

I'm kind of pondering if it's possible to make Miracles a thing in Modern. Sure, it's super hard because we don't have Sensei's Divining Top or Brainstorm to work with, but surely there has to be some way to make it work, right?

You could definitely do a version of it. No idea if it would be good, but you've got a lot of Scry effects, albeit less powerful ones. Serum Visions, Preordain, Crystal Ball. And stuff like... uh, Leashling..? Lapse Of Certainty your own Entreat The Angels for 0 from hand?

[MatsuriSakuragi]

Hmm, possibly.

Also, called it. Tarmogoyf is in, as is Cavern of Souls and a bunch of other good shit. We haven't seen many artifacts yet, though... Affinity stuff is bound to happen. All the other tier 1 decks have got their chase rares except it.

[Tamer Anode/Cathode]

Wondering if MM17's print run is going to be significant enough that Tarmogoyf's price is going to go below triple digits. Ah, I can hope. At least we have Fatal Push now to challenge its dominance of the meta.

[commandercool]

Goyf hasn't been dominant in a long time, has it? I watch quite a bit of Modern gameplay and it's been a long time since I've seen much of it at all.

I've heard people theorize that it's only expensive because "investors" are price fixing it because they paid a lot to stockpile copies back when it was a big deal. Based on actual usage and number of reprints it should, by all accounts, cost considerably less.

[MatsuriSakuragi]

Goyf's already dipping below triple digits on tcgplayer right now.

I'm currently watching Rogue Deckbuilder's analysis on the set right now and he's saying that it's rumored that WotC is printing this 5x more than they did MM15-- and honestly, I'm very okay with that. I know it causes a lot of alarm for people who don't want the price of their cards to tank (kind of how I mentioned the same for Aether Vial), but honestly at this point? Fuck it.  I want everything to tank so Modern is accessible. I mean for god's sake we're talking pieces of cardboard here. There's no reason why cards should cost so damn much.

Meanwhile, Serum Visions reprint in a more constructed-relevant set? Yes please.

God, I need to start figuring out what I'm going to be investing in. The price of boxes are skyrocketing right now so I don't think I'm gonna bother buying a box or anything random besides maybe a few packs for funsies. But singles? That's where it's gonna be at. The hype train is making the boxes super pricey, but if the rumor that they're printing the everloving fuck out of this set is true, then there's going to be a lot of dropping prices on singles.

My current wishlist so far in no particular order

The fetch lands in general
Snapcaster Mage (if this dude drops below $20 I'm tempted to just get a playset because he's a staple in so many control/tempo decks)
Restoration Angel (she's not too expensive as it is, but I'd like to see her drop more)
Path to Exile (I already have a playset, but I play so damn many white decks that I'd like to have more so I don't have to keep swapping them around)
Phantasmal Image (It'd be nice in my Spirits deck)
Venser, Shaper Savant (Might be cool in a UW Death and Taxes deck so I can flicker the hell out of him)
Blood Moon (if you can't beat 'em, join 'em)
Goblin Guide (oh god yes-- and I really hope Goblin Bushwhacker gets a reprint at common here so I can do Pauper 8-whack too)
Inquisition of Kozilek (why not? It's already getting cheaper)
Cavern of Souls (for 8-whack and Merfolk and such)
Linvala, Keeper of Silence (what a gorgeous hate card)

And of course, Lili of the Veil and Tarmogoyf are always great to have, but I dunno if I'd keep them if I pulled them. Goodstuff decks just really aren't my style (I prefer disruptive meta-hatedecks and aggro-control like Faeries (Bitterblossom reprint where?)), though the option would be nice.

Goyf hasn't been dominant in a long time, has it? I watch quite a bit of Modern gameplay and it's been a long time since I've seen much of it at all.

I've heard people theorize that it's only expensive because "investors" are price fixing it because they paid a lot to stockpile copies back when it was a big deal. Based on actual usage and number of reprints it should, by all accounts, cost considerably less.

It hasn't been super-dominant simply because everyone who knows what they're doing is ready to sideboard against Jund/Abzan, I feel. I don't think Tarmogoyf is ever going to not be relevant in the format, because it's a genuinely stupid strong card, but it's also so easily hated out that I feel it has lost some of its dominance, especially since you're more or less fucked if you're playing against any white or black decks. It has no evasion, Fatal Push shrugs it off, and Rest in Peace completely nerfs it. And since Rest in Peace is in pretty much every white sideboard BECAUSE of Jund and Dredge and Snapcaster/Tasigur decks, it's not a card I worry too much about as someone who plays white.

[Tamer Anode/Cathode]

Goyf's already dipping below triple digits on tcgplayer right now.

I'm currently watching Rogue Deckbuilder's analysis on the set right now and he's saying that it's rumored that WotC is printing this 5x more than they did MM15-- and honestly, I'm very okay with that. I know it causes a lot of alarm for people who don't want the price of their cards to tank (kind of how I mentioned the same for Aether Vial), but honestly at this point? Fuck it.  I want everything to tank so Modern is accessible. I mean for god's sake we're talking pieces of cardboard here. There's no reason why cards should cost so damn much.

Honestly my dream would be for Masters sets to get the same kind of print run a Conspiracy set does but that's kind of a lofty dream

My hopes for stuff to open:
-Craterhoof Behemoth (for Commander funtimes)
-Goblin Guide (so I can try building mono-red or zoo)
-Abrubt Decay
-The signets
-The enemy fetches
-Might of Old Krosa (so I can work towards building Infect at some point)
-Mortician Beetle (Mazirek's gonna love this guy)
-Scavenging Ooze

[commandercool]

This is virtually off-topic, but as someone whi plays Mazirek a lot I don't think he gives a shit about Mortician Beetle. If you have some kind of engine going you should have enormous power and toughness across the board, and if not then you should be putting one together, which Mortician Beetle doesn't help with at all. Run Reassembling Skeleton sorts of effects, token generators, or sacrifice outlets in that slot instead.

That said, really interested to try it alongside Carrion Feeder and friends in Pauper.

[Tamer Anode/Cathode]

This is virtually off-topic, but as someone whi plays Mazirek a lot I don't think he gives a shit about Mortician Beetle. If you have some kind of engine going you should have enormous power and toughness across the board, and if not then you should be putting one together, which Mortician Beetle doesn't help with at all. Run Reassembling Skeleton sorts of effects, token generators, or sacrifice outlets in that slot instead.

That said, really interested to try it alongside Carrion Feeder and friends in Pauper.

I'm honestly thinking of moving away from Mazirek because one of the Commander groups I play with runs Meren and our lists are 50% the same. Thinking of building a Ghave deck around exploiting Undying/Persist to build some sort of perpetual motion machine.

What would be good fodder for Carrion Feeder/Mortician Beetle at the common level?

[MatsuriSakuragi]

Anything that has decent "dies/leaves the battlefield" effects, I would assume. Can't think of anything immediately offhand.

[commandercool]

Generally anything that can die twice. Undying, Persist, Blisterpod, Nest Invader, Brindle Shoat.  Maybe Asylum Skeleton types of effects, token generators, and yeah, any kind of utility on a stick.

[MatsuriSakuragi]

Gonna add Doomed Traveler as well. Sac it and get a flying spirit token for hitting in the air! (Or sac it too.)

[commandercool]

Yeah, depends on which direction you want go with it, color-wise. I think there are a few less good white options, but black/white could definitely work. Access to Triplicate Spirits and (if you're online) Battle Screech seems nice.

[MatsuriSakuragi]

If you're rolling white or green, Safehold Elite is a 2/2 for 2 with Persist, too.

[commandercool]

Arguably much worse than Young Wolf as the inverse creature for less mana. Safehold Elite is an elf which is nice, but probably not relevant here.

Edit: I really like the idea of an Auramancer removal package with Dead Weight and friends  in Pauper, and that seems like a nice fit for W/B Aristocrats. I might look into that a bit further.