A Balanced Game of Mafia (Over; town wins)

[ActionDan]

Sect:

First, your opinions might have been valid day one, and that's a big maybe, but they have absolutely no place after Dormio's flip.

I'll get into your first post later, but your 2nd post is even more damning than your failed oppurtunity to hammer last night (look at Dormio's fake rage posts after D2 DTB mafia:  AT least Helepolis hammered). 

Your point about UK: atrocious.  Unless she's super bussing Dormio and that was her plan all along in the wee time they had to talk about it, she's confirmed town. 

Unless you think Scum wanted to go into a scum/scum wagon D1, I'm confirmed town right after UK, the first person to Call out Dormio. 

on Shadow: the 2nd to attack dormio, is town. (barring bussing)

ON bard and polaris: LOL you attack Polaris WHEN he was the decider to switch wagons and lynch SCUM.  You Waffle on Bard for lurking!!!!!

You are SCUM, I have to go or I'd add more

[WHMZakeri]

Let's get the easy one out of the way first.

Sect:

I want Dan gone more than I want Dormio gone, and I want this game to end more than I want Dormio gone.

You have 24 hours to justify why any townie would ever say this and mean it. After that, I will give you the rest of the 72 hour period to justify why you would say this about someone who flipped scum.

[WHMZakeri]

To clearify, Sect, please focus on the part that I bolded for emphasis in the quote.

[Kiro]

With how prominent the Dan wagon was early on and the difficulty in getting the vote switches from Dan to Dormio, I'd say the people who were on Dan long term deserve the closest looks today. Particularly those who didn't switch after Dormio's 195.

Hourai was posting during UK's and Shadoweh's switch to Dormio and passes over Dormio pretty lightly in #198. Then it's straight back to Dan on #205, #211, and somewhat #218. Definitely feels like a push to keep Dan at the top.

Feeling a bit off on Polaris. His #207 pretty much prioritizes Dan over Dormio. And the reason for the switch to Dormio in #263 feels weird. Why did you feel you were having doubts about getting a majority on Dan when it was even?

I think those are my top 2 at the moment. A little confused on Sect's insistence to push against Dan on Day 2, but I'm not really feeling him as Scum.

##Vote Hanged Hourai

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

FWIW, had I been around to post earlier on D1 I would have probably switched to Omba as I decided he was scummier than Shadoweh, and I also would have said that I prefered Dan over Dormio, since Dormio was attacking my second pick for scum. Except then Dormio flipped scum so I'm a retard. <___<

Okay, sooo, opinions relating to Dormio's flip:

• Despite how much I bitched about her play yesterday, UK is definitely town. Had it not been for her, I doubt the Dormio wagon would have ever gotten off the ground, and scum had no reason to do a last minute bus either.
• I can't see Kiro as scum at all now either, since if he were scum he probably would have been able to keep the Shadoweh wagon afloat.
• Shadoweh looks better in light of how much Dormio tunneled on her D1, and she is another person who helped the Dormio wagon start up. Her position isn't as ~super townie~ Kiro's and UK's, but I'm willing to stop pursuing her regardless.
• Dan is probably town too, considering that he was Dormio's rival wagon.

Anyway, Omba's D1 was bad. I've already mentioned how much I dislike him chainsawing against the people on the Shadoweh wagon, considering that Shadoweh could have defended herself easily. It truly seems like he was buddying up with somebody he knew to be town for ~sweet cred~. It's also amusing how much he copied UK all day, first on my own wagon and then a switch on to the Dormio wagon. Omba's vote on the Dormio wagon seems like a possible bus, too - it was timed late on to the wagon after Dormio already seemed like a highly possible loss for the scum team, and Omba's case on Dormio was significantly weaker than his case on me. However, it does at least have the saving grace of being the vote to break the tie and make Dormio the more likely lynch, so I'm less interested in lynching Omba in comparision to my other suspect for now.

Sect really needs to explain himself. Like, now. I was passing him off as newb!town on D1 and I still do believe his reluctance to vote is a nulltell coming from him, but that does not change how horrible he looks in light of Dormio's flip. Not only are there instances of Dormio himself buddying up with Sect or otherwiise supporting Sect's actions, but Sect's placement on the wagon of Shadoweh (who now looks quite townie) seems like a definite attempt to help a mislynch wagon take off, and considering that his reasons for voting her were initially vague and reactory, it seems more likely that he was a scum struggling to figure out how to push a townie mislynch than simply a townie targeting the wrong person. Also of note is his reluctance to switch to Dormio and end the day in Dormio's lynch, which is just plain awful. I can't think of anybody else I would want lynched more than him at this point.

##Vote Sect

In other news, Bard has been forgettable this game and I need to look over him again. I'm not sure whether or not that's a good thing. I recall him being on both the Shadoweh and Dan wagons for little reason, so hmm.

...~500 words. Okay, I'm never joining a game with wordcounts ever again. :x I'm too wordy of a person to be able to get around these things. Ah well.

[Edible]

...~500 words. Okay, I'm never joining a game with wordcounts ever again. :x I'm too wordy of a person to be able to get around these things. Ah well.

I haven't enforced them yet, but please try to achieve brevity for future posts. <3

[Omba]

Just a short post for now.

• I can't see Kiro as scum at all now either, since if he were scum he probably would have been able to keep the Shadoweh wagon afloat.

&

Anyway, Omba's D1 was bad. I've already mentioned how much I dislike him chainsawing against the people on the Shadoweh wagon, considering that Shadoweh could have defended herself easily. It truly seems like he was buddying up with somebody he knew to be town for ~sweet cred~.

So, how exactly does this fit together? And why are you brushing over the fact that I did not attack anyone on the Shadoweh wagon, with the exception of you? I pointed that out already in my #228.

Anyway. HW and after Kiro's #303 also HH and Polaris are going to be my main focus for D2. Sect still seems pissed at Dan, like he already was early in D1. Going to view his vote as not more than that for now.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

So, how exactly does this fit together?

I don't see how the bolded things are correlated, unless you're misinterpreting me.

And why are you brushing over the fact that I did not attack anyone on the Shadoweh wagon, with the exception of you? I pointed that out already in my #228.

Dormio was on the Shadoweh wagon.
It seemed like you were exclusively going after people who were going after Shadoweh. But this might just be because if you made cases on people other than me and Dormio they weren't strong enough for me to remember them. <_<

[Omba]

I don't see how the bolded things are correlated, unless you're misinterpreting me.

Relation: Shadoweh was at L-2 at the time of my post about her wagon. If you're saying Kiro could have easily kept the wagon going, why would I not have been able to sink it? My vote would have placed it at L-1.
Disregarding the fact that this kind of argument leads pretty much nowhere, in both directions.

Dormio was on the Shadoweh wagon.
It seemed like you were exclusively going after people who were going after Shadoweh. But this might just be because if you made cases on people other than me and Dormio they weren't strong enough for me to remember them. <_<

Yes, he was. Only, well, the Shadoweh wagon was already long dead when I attacked Dormio.
But yes, both of the people I really attacked yesterday where on the Shadoweh wagon at some point, that much is correct. If you meant that as "attacking on D1", rather than "attacking when she might have been lynched" as I understood it, then your point stands. In this case, what I wrote above (Relation:...) is irrelevant.
The "considering Shadoweh could have defended herself easily" part you had added makes me doubt that, though.

Also, before I forget about it:

##Vote: huh what

My opinion of him has not changed, so until I have time to read up on HH & Polaris and see who looks scummier, I want him dead today. From what I remember, I'll probably still lean towards HW after reading.

[Shadoweh]

huh whatty: Try to use a wordcounter first, then edit out lines that aren't needed to get your point across. Not that I know anything about being wordy >.>

So what the freaking hell happened last morning? I hope everyone that wasn't here realizes that at the actual deadline it was impossible for us to swing a Dormio lynch. But it's okay, it's not like Dormio was SCUM or anything. THE ONLY REASON WE GOT A SCUM LYNCH YESTERDAY WAS BY BENDING TIME AND PRAYING TO EDIBLE FOR BENEVOLENCE. We can't let this happen again. If people can't be here in the morning we need to hammer before that becomes a problem.

Sect looks awful after yesterday, and I don't mean as a scum, I mean as a fucking awful player. The ONLY reason I'm still leaning towards 'can't play Mafia' instead of 'scummy as all getout' is I don't see why he would post that fit and refuse to vote to end the bloody Day instead of just pretending he wasn't here. If you're going to vote to kill Mafia and just leave at the beginning of the next day when it's pretty damn obvious people are going to have questions for you then replace out and don't play Mafia again.

I tried reading over Hourai and Dan's argument and I still have no idea what either of them were talking about. You spent the entire Day 1 arguing about arguing about arguing over something that happened in ED1. Hourai's "Sorry bro you kinda scummy" to Dormio followed by more ~*Tunneling*~ was unimpressive.

Bardiche doesn't exist after the first 24 hours of Day 1. He gave Dan some advice on how to play Mafia, Attacked UK but it was just pre~tend~ing. He got onto my wagon well after it was formed, said he would look at my responses to him later, hopped onto Dan after his wagon picked up and poof. Bardykins, I want to hear your melodic voice telling me who you think is scum today so we can keep honeymooning together.

##Vote: Bardiche

[ActionDan]

Before a HW and Omba standoff becomes more than what it is right now, I would like to give some quick opinions.

To Kiro and Omba about Polaris:  I thought his D1 was bad as well, however, I see no reason for Scum!Polaris to switch his vote at 5-5.  There is a good reason Town!Polaris to switch at 5-5:  The sense that no one was switching from Dormio over to me, so he placed town interests over his own.  Scum!Polaris would not do such a thing. Scum!Polaris would lurk and wait for Dormio's wagon to switch by force.  He would at least wait for someone on my Wagon to switch and put Dormio at L-1, so then he could hammer.  The reason Huh What's hammer is not suspicious in this way is because he was on neither wagon to begin with (although I would have prefered him to wake up earlier and put one of us at L-1 himself)

To HW:  I think your points against Omba are only conspiracy theories at this point, as Omba was speculating on a good many people if I can recall.

I've reread all of Sect, and still think he looks like ObvScum at this point. I will berate him in my next post.  I also think Town should at least concentrate on HH, Bard, and Sect pretty much exclusively at this point, and one of them should definitely be Today's lynch.  And yes, I think both Scum were on wagon at the end of the day.

cut-cut

[ActionDan]

O yeah, ##Vote Sect

[UncertainJakutten]

So, I haven't read yet, partially expecting to eat a kill. I'm pleased I didn't! I'll state right now, at first blush, I want Sect and HH dead. I'm pretty much going to assume Dan is town unless he starts claiming scum for some reason. I'll be working off of that.

I'm going to read today's proceedings and see who I feel like rereading, if anyone.

[UncertainJakutten]

Sect opens today with a terrible vote for Dan. He was the counter wagon to scum. We nearly missed Dormio's lynch because of the pants on head wagon on Dan. This does not bode well for Sect. His "case" on Dan is, paraphrased
1) Dan is a noob
2) Dan is a noob
3) Dan is a noob
4) Dan is a capt. h alt.

Sorry! I could easily tell you why everyone in this game is scum! You'll have to try harder than that.

No. Full stop.

It's not a very good thing, though, if when you're playing as scum you look like scum and if you're playing as town you look like town.

So, you're telling me. That it's bad. To look town? When I'm town? Are you on drugs? Can I get some? Because I think I'll need them if I'm going to at all understand the rest of your post.

AH! Thank you for reminding me, Sect! HW needs to hang today! I started a case on him and everything before losing interest! I'll be rereading him to get the choice interactions with Dormio that makes him scum! I have one quote already~

@Dan 300: *headdesk*

You know, I was about ready to accept that logic. Until you had to fucking ASSUME it was true. You ARE aware of how much that makes it look like you intentionally set it up, right? You know, like how I worked with Serela/Schezo last game? Nevermind, erase my conf. town read on Dan. He fucked it up. (To clarify, I still think he's town. But I'm not going to turn a blind eye to him like I initially was)

Also, Kiro was the first to call out to Dormio. Then Shadoweh and I were tag teaming him. I had the second vote on Dormio. Kiro is bleeding so much god damn town his skin is green.

@Zak 301: Oh, hey, guess Sect hangs today after all!

HW's posts...are actually decent today, shit. I *definitely* need to reread him to confirm what I thought I had.

[UncertainJakutten]

OK.

This post makes me feel leery of HW. It feels like he's coaching Dormio while trying to see if he can manipulate a Dan or Shadoweh lynch out of things. Or really, any lynch that's not on a scum buddy. IIRC Dan was becoming a popular wagon then though.

That said...I don't want to lynch HW first. I want to lynch Sect first. If Sect is scum, HW is his buddy. There's a lot of connection between them that reads really badly, throughout HW's ISO. You do start D2 voting Sect but it's fairly obvious that he's the lynch today given how he was yesterday. I'll do an ISO of him to just in case, but yeah.

So, HW does *not* die today. I can really only see him as scum with Sect.

[UncertainJakutten]

OK. Yes. Sect's ISO continues to confirm that they're pretty tied together. If one is scum, the other almost certainly is.

This post in particular makes me feel like we want to look at associative tells from Sect. He's thinking about them. Recall what K4U said was wrong with my scum game last game. I was accusing people of doing *the exact same things I was*

This post is pretty bad in light of the flip.

So, overall underwhelmed with Sect, leaning heavily scum on him. His contributions boil down to protecting HW, hating Dan, and jumping on Shadoweh and UK. And complaining.

[ActionDan]

UK: Sorry about #300, I had like 3 min to say something.  I'm still pressed for time now anyway.  I could have sworn Kiro was the thrid vote after you and shadow.  So yes, Kiro is towniest in my book followed by you UK, because I guessed that your "2nd scum" was in fact Dormio (unless It wasn't? I really wasn't paying much attention to the Dormio case besides the general feeling that he was lurking and not acting like a VT). I mean I still feel I should look like townie mctownerson to everybody, and the Neo.S/Schezo thing was D2 when sacing an ally is far more common.  Anyway I think Sect is tied to Bard more than HW, and I can support that with this quote:

Dan! Why am I the focal point behind your attack on Bardiche and your defense against HH?

I think Sect tried way too hard to make this question make sense.  And It's weird how he assumes there is a connection between him and Bard when I saw none.. and didn't even attack Bard with Sect in mind at all.  I think, finally, that I might have found a true scumslip.
(The second part of the question is just unfathomable to me,  What did we get into a fight over again?!?!?)

Once More: Sect accuses Polaris and Bard of lurking, but only Polaris is "2nd scum pick"

  I think Sect is using HH as a lifeline to be honest, but to me, if Bard/Sect is not the Scum team, then I'd go for HH first, then HW.  Everyone else is way more town.

cut by UK. OK I see your point.  She even throws dirt on Omba.  However this could be Sect trying to rile up a fight between HW and Omba. a.k.a it feels like too obvious defense of a known town kinda thing.

[ActionDan]

Edit to above post: "known town" as in: Sect knows he is town, so Sect thinks nothing could go wrong by defending him.

[UncertainJakutten]

I'm leaning town, but that doesn't mean you can slack off, Dan. Ideally you shouldn't slack off even as confirmed town, but people do, really. Anyway, actually, my second scum when I was being cryptic was Sect. I only noticed Dormio after he started attacking me with terrible logic. Then I started reading him more strictly and noticing he kind of had a lot wrong with him, eventually leading to me pushing the wagon. Kiro did the work.

As for Sect/HW. I feel HW has been matching Sect's wavelengths in a scummy fashion, and they've both been feeding each other. The associative tells are strong. I'd put Sect as individually scummier though.

[UncertainJakutten]

So you know what's awesome? Noticing you forgot to

##Vote Sect :VVVVVV

[ActionDan]

Ah, OK gotcha.  I was about to post anyway saying I just caught HW saying I had a definite stance on "Sect, the easy target" in the first post you linked too (the leery one  ).  In actuallity I had just posted prior that I thought perhaps Sect misunderstood me.  Now it's quite clear that Sect simply and intentionally just tried to act confused.

@Sect: it was not "blatantly" obvious that your first prod was a joke.  I thought it was serious, and it was worded seriously.  You basically led me on without clarifying at all!  Your attack on me D2 boils down to, "you should have known better Dan, now look what you've done."  If you mislynched me D1, no one would have been the wiser, but that wasn't to be.

[ActionDan]

Also, @mod votecount if you are willing?  this is my last post for the day, might be back in 12~ish hours.

[Edible]

Also, @mod votecount if you are willing?

NO I REFUSE

Votecount - I Ate All Of My Mentos Last Night

Action Dan (1) - Sect
Hanged Hourai (1) - Kiro
Sect (3) - huh what, Action Dan, UncertainKitten
huh what (1) - Omba
Bardiche (1) - Shadoweh

A whole bunch of hours remain.  11 alive takes 6 to lynch.

[Shadoweh]

I've never seen someone that was new and playing horribly actually flip scum yet. As much as I dislike the concept, if Sect isn't going to contribute anyways we have an excellent buffer to lynch someone who isn't going to help town win and he's done enough suspicious things to be a decent choice. Maybe this will be The One! I only ask that people not get caught up in his offensiveness and don't forget there are still 10 other players to look over.

It sure would be nice if the people I named would show up and say something, along with Polaris. Stop hiding and add your voices to the crowd! We want to hear your sekrets @_@

[Polaris]

Kiro: At that point I was seeing "only a fraction of the people wants to lynch Dan" as opposed to "pretty much everybody wants to lynch Dormio", and thus had doubts about getting a majority on Dan. Maybe I should've said "a willing majority".

For the record, I'm reluctantly clearing Dan thanks to being the counter to a scum wagon.

UK: Do you mind if I ask what about my points exactly gives you a headache :ohdear: Also, is huhwhat voting Sect relevant at all to their association?

Regarding Sect:
- Hating Dan is understandable, but it shouldn't be detrimental to scumhunting. Your second pick for scum is apparently me, but do you have any reason other than "lurking"? If you think Dan is scum, do you think I could be scumpartners with him?
I don't mind seeing Sect lynched if he's going to let his emotions get the better of him and not do anything for the rest of the game, but I've decided to give him a chance to respond to me and the others.

Regarding Hourai:
- This post is weird about how he interacts with Dormio. He apologizes for thinking of Dormio as his second scumpick, and says "I'm not saying your vote is bad" and asks some questions that look like he's trying to help Dormio further his opinions as opposed to criticizing them.
##Vote: Hanged Hourai

Regarding other people:
- Omba is weird because of this post where he criticizes me for... not attacking him because there's apparently other things that I could've talked about.
- Bard really hasn't done much in this game. His votes were more bandwagoning/pressure votes than "I think this person is scum" votes, which is really lame.

Wanted to put forth an opinion on huhwhat but he's still pretty uninteresting so I'll just post this since Shadoweh is prompting me to instead of delaying it for another few hours.

[UncertainJakutten]

@Shadoweh: You pretty much halved your town read right there.

@Polly: You phrase things confusingly and annoyingly. You also tend to IIoA. HW voting Sect more needs to be explained because on the surface it seems counter to association. And to be honest, it's pretty damaging to the case. I just think the rest of the events stand up to it.

Polly is quickly eroding any sympathy I have for him for the cute "We should lynch Sect anyway" thing. To be honest, the fact that so many people are advocating a Sect policy lynch makes me want to reconsider my suspects.

The post linked from Hourai makes me Hmm a lot. Very Hmm. Particularly coupled with how people are reacting to Sect...

[Shadoweh]

UK: You pretty much just said it yourself, it's more of a policy lynch then anything. I don't have a good enough gut feeling to fight for the survival of someone who might be scum, especially if he's not going to fight for himself. Townies should never surrender until the end. I'm more worried about suspicious people getting lost in the background because of the pursuit of 'obvious newbscum'.

I'm going to point out something that should be obvious at this point. huh what hammered Dormio at the last minute. If he hadn't showed up and just slept in we would still be talking about how bad Dormio is today. Why are you still considering huh what as a suspect?

[UncertainJakutten]

Because if he hadn't hammered we'd be considering Huh What as a suspect, Shadoweh.

[Hanged Hourai]

Happy Easter! :toot:
O yea, i has Mafias to play. K.

I had a long day, so this is going to be a quick thing making a vote and explaining my vote. More stuff on others in the morning.

##Vote: Bardiche
Bard only mentioned Dormio to ask for an elaboration on observations, with an apparent goal of trying to help him make his make a point stronger, not actually putting pressure on Dormio.

His jump on Dan, putting him into the lead wagon with little explanation is also suspect to me.

And all Dormio had to say about him was that he was inactive, but townie-looking.

I would like content from Bard, like, now plz.

Now please excuse me while I tend to some important business.
ZZZzzzzzz

[Shadoweh]

UK: So we should ignore that HW secured our scum lynch like you've been doing and go after him based on Day 1 content? You brought up a link between him and Dormio without acknowledging this vote happened. At all. What are you suggesting, that he appeared to hammer scum that he didn't have to and we would never have known he was here to do for townie cred he didn't claim? This is an obvious town action with town intent.

Even after acknowledging his posts today look better, you connect him with today's 'obvious lynch' in #314 and #315,  setting HW up for tomorrow as Sect's buddy if Sect flips scum. I don't believe there's another way to interpret "If Sect = scum then HW = scumbuddy". Your reasoning in #325 for wanting to reconsider a Sect lynch at this point is weird. You said yourself in #314 that Sect was 'fairly obviously the lynch today'. Why would multiple people expressing their wishes to lynch him make you change your mind or make them scummy?

You Day 1 isn't much better then HW barring the Dormio lynch. Let's do some ~*POST ANANYSIS*~. #56 you defend me from HW, declaring his post the worst thing. You then spend #63, #68 and #73 continuing to defend me and trolling HW. In #95 you finally state what your case on HW is, well after he's become a wagon. #118 is your first interaction with Dormio, in which you ask opinions, #129 showing you don't suspect him yet. In #153 you talk to Dormio again after he attacks you (without vote-switching), telling him he's doing it wrong and starting to sound a little scummy. In #171 you tell Dormio he's terrible for his hugely terrible post where he says he's willing to vote for you (again without switching), asking him to explain his terrible lack of case. In #193 you throw suspicion on Dan, the only notable wagon considering noone was switching to HW. It's not until #196, after Dormio's terrifriggingawful post where he switches his vote to you that you switch your vote over to him. By now four different players besides Kiro expressed how Dormio is sailing the Scum Titanic into an iceberg.

I'm proposing a possibility. I think it's possible you as scum would superbus an obvious liability and coast on townie cred. You've cast doubt on The Hammer, The Other Wagon, and the person Dormio started a case on and camped on while attacking you.

##Unvote
##Vote: UncertainKitten