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Adorable Game of Mafia
AGoM is an open setup. If you're town, lynch the mafia to win. If you're mafia, kill the townies to win.
1 Mafia Godfather (Returns cop results as Town)
1 Mafia Rolecop (May target a player at night to learn their role)
1 Mafia Strongman Assassin Sniper Hitman Ninja Vigilante Executioner (is actually a goon)
1 Tracker (May target a player every night to learn if they targeted someone else with an ability)
1 Rogue Cop (May target a player on odd nights to learn their alignment; may use this ability on Even nights but loses the ability thereafter)
1 Confused Innocent Child (Thinks they're vanilla town until Day 2 begins, and are then revealed to the game as confirmed town)
1 Voyeur (May target a player at night to determine what actions, if any, were taken against them)
5 Vanilla Townies (May form Voltron, the ultimate townie voting block)
Rules
1) Day 1 will last 72 hours (3 days). Days 2 and onward will last 48 hours (2 days). Nights will last up to 24 hours, and less if everyone sends in their stuff on time. LYLO will last 72 hours. (THIS WAS HERE THE WHOLE GAME I SWEAR)
2) No extensions will be permitted.
3) Thou Shalt Not Edit Thine Posts. Thou Shalt Not Change Thy Username During The Game. Thou Shalt Not Delete Thine Posts. I can tell who edits, deletes, or changes what, and I will enact swift vengeance upon defilers of this sacred rule.
4) Don't bully No Lynch-chan. Voting to No Lynch is not allowed, and a majority MUST be reached by the end of each day or Rocks Fall And You Will Die.
5) Dead players may "Bah!" post once. This post may be amusing, but must also be utterly useless in relevance to all players from an in-game perspective. Keep your opinions to yourself after you're dead.
6) Players may not contact any other player by any means other than in the game thread unless their role permits them to do so. Dead players may talk in the Dead QT, which I will provide to you when you die.
7) Players are expected to post a significant contribution at least once every 24 hours. Failure to do so will result in a prod PM asking you to show up in-game. Two prods is grounds for a forced replacement or modkill.
8) Conversation is permitted in Twilight (after a hammer but before I show up to lock the thread), but no one may talk at night. Mafia may use their QT to discuss the game whenever they wish.
9) This game will have daily posting restrictions that vary depending on the day. They should be mostly harmless in nature, but a player may ##takeiteasy once during the game to gain an immunity from the day's restriction.
11) Being a jerk is NOT an acceptable strategy for either alignment in this game. Please play nice and be respectful of your fellow players - this extends to the QTs as well. I will replace and/or modkill you if I call you out on this and you do not change your habits.
12) All living players must send me a PM at night, whether they have an ability to use or not. Once I have a PM from every player, I may choose to end the night early.
13) I may edit these rules as necessary. I will notify everyone in thread if this occurs.
PLAYER LIST
A) Affinity, Town Tracker
B) BT
C) Serela, Mafia Rolecop
D) Omba, Town Voyeur
E) Raitaki
F) Pesco, Innocent Child
G) NekoNekoRex, Praline Town
H) huh what
I) IHNN, Rogue Cop
J) Shadoweh
K) Kilgamayan, Orange Sherbet Town
L) PX, Mafia Strongman Assassin Sniper Hitman Ninja Vigilante Executioner
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/get
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confirmang
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Kanata ha Minna no Kakukaku Tenshi!
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I'm not K. I actually bowl in the correct lane.
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WOOF~
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PM GET
6) Players may not contact any other player by any means other than in the game thread unless their role permits them to do so. Dead players may talk in the Dead QT, which I will provide to you when you die.
D'aaaaaaaaaw
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Secret miller reporting for duty!
I.. have no idea what I am acutally. Some kinda skull girl?
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##Vote: Shadoweh
Skulls are not cute, obv scumclaim
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/conform
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Kilga, since when have skull girls not been cute?
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Kilga how can you hate skull chicks? (http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110709050809/megaman/images/thumb/9/95/MMBNMiyu.png/110px-MMBNMiyu.png)
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YOU'RE ALL SCUM!
AHHAHAAAHAAHAAAHAAHA
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GUYS I DELETED MY ROLE PM WITHOUT LOOKING AT IT
I dare anyone to lynch me before I use my action (if any) on somebody to discover my role ;o
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Raitaki: Serious?
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That deserves a modkill. Outright disrespect for the game.
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Yup.
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Or in case it was a joke, write the mod a PM containing your alignment and role. Then never do that shit again. Ever.
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Hmm ok ;o
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I'd rather a replacement than a mod kill.
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Omba must be scum and Raitaki town for wanting a modkill.
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Dear New Guy: Don't joke about that kind of thing. We don't currently know anything about you and will assume you're serious. If you are serious, :| Don't delete your role pm. How would you use an action you didn't know you had anyways?
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The newbie was kidding, let's move on.
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Sry everyone :3c Just...something I wanted to try doing :P
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Who are we missing? HW? Let's get this show on the road or something.
Enough nonsense. And overreacting to silly propositions. Nobody is losing their role PM or getting modkilled pregame.
(even if someone did delete by accident it they would request a resend)
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Also MotK literally emails you the content of PMs anyway. You'd have to fuck up twice to miss a role PM. Although my corresponding email was blank, so I dunno. Probably BBCode Shenanigans.
lol edited pregame posts
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Sample Role PMs in first post?
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confirming that i need to stop sleep in to 12:30
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sleeping*
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Omba must be scum and Raitaki town for wanting a modkill.
Serious?
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Oooookay, if you have already confirmed, please refrain from posting until the game starts.
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confirmed
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confirmed
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DAY 1 START
A cute plot is afoot! You should ##vote the person you think is causing trouble!
(http://i.imgur.com/nXdHt.png)
Tiny kitty in tiny chair wishes for you to not have walls of text!
There is a 350 word limit to all posts Day 1! In addition, you may not post consecutively except to EBWOP, which counts against your word limit!
With 12 adorable things playing, it requires 7 votes to remove an adorable thing from play.
Presently, there are no votes. You have 72 hours remaining.
Frolic!
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##Vote: PX
Most likely liability.
Joke phase is over, srs phase is now.
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##Vote PX
You betrayed Kanata. How could you, you bastard?
No name: How does that make me scum? And assuming it would, where does Pesco fit into the equation?
The new guy: What did you hope to get out of that stunt?
Mod: What constitues an EBWOP here?
--cut by no, RVS is over -now-. :V
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Pesco I'm invoking this :P (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.ph...tml#msg839982)
##Vote: Pesco
You can't trust the bunnies gaize
Serious?
No more serious than an RVS vote. Perhaps I should have added a :V to the end of the original post?
-cut-
Fine. I'm keeping my pre-prepared post though.
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no, RVS ends 2 posts from now :V
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##Vote Kilga
Koromo hates you too
---cut
Koromo didn't really like that avatar. Also, screw pre-game stuff, we are not having a NotV repeat
====cut
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##Unvote
##Vote Raitaki
-This- is the most likely liability.
No name: Ah, I see. Ok.
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I think Bardiche is the cop.
Oh wait he's not in this game.
##Vote: Raitaki (L-5)
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Pesco I'm invoking this :P (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,11711.msg839982.html#msg839982)
EBWOP because my link was broken :V
I'm inclined to agree on Raitaki right now if only because of the...gambit?...he pulled pre-game. I'm not voting him until he's made a statement though.
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What sort of statement do you want him to make?
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##Vote huhwhat
Because that Drawcia is too cute for this game.
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Serela: Do you have more than just :RVS:?
huhwhat: That vote serious?
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##Vote huhwhat
Because that Drawcia is too cute for this game.
Bitch I'm kawaii as fuck.
Also token questioning because we have serious posts here.
huhwhat: That vote serious?
Yes.
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Perfect. D1 policy lynch, we can make it happen.
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What sort of statement do you want him to make?
Something, anything really. Outside of my first vote I don't like voting people who haven't said anything, unless my first vote has said something...it makes sense in my head.
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Outside of my first vote I don't like voting people who haven't said anything, unless my first vote has said something
Explain the bolded part, please.
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Unless the first person I voted says something that makes me tentatively believe them to be town.
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Since I'm new round those parts, I'll abstain until a reasonable bandwagon starts.
I pulled that little bluff right there because I've seen people making absurd lies that still are believed/worked to their advantage so I tried that. /teenlogic
But anyway the main reason is to see reactions. I reasoned that any townies wanting to lynch me would be somewhat hesitant because I might turn out to be a town power role, while scum would become more aggressive if the next day I pretend to have tried using an ability and succeed because they already know I'm not scum :V
ofc I had to forget about replacements :facepalm:
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Also token questioning because we have serious posts here.
I don't care how "serious" the posts are, there isn't actually much serious for me to do with them. If you haven't noticed, I've rarely been the questioning type in the first place, and I don't really feel like "seriously" pursuing something that's in actuality nothing. While acting like that is sure to help RVS end quick, I'm not good at faking conviction. If you don't believe me look at the last couple of times I was scum. >.>
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@Raitaki
The difference between then and now is that it wasn't an open setup. Additionally reaction testing before the game even begins is striking the wrong chord with me. Oh the irony of banning LLD only to get a player that, so far, seems to play exactly like her.
In the meantime, ##FoS Raitaki.
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##Unvote
##Vote Serela
Liking this policy lynch better now.
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@mod: Does the PR only apply to consecutive posts or is it cumulative over the whole day?
Hopefully it's not the latter, this game would be quite aggrieving otherwise.
##Vote: Raitaki
Stance on outside posting already has me on edge. Trying to make a deal out of pregame bullshit after the fact only it makes it worse.
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@mod: Does the PR only apply to consecutive posts or is it cumulative over the whole day?
Consecutive posts.
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Mod: What counts as EBWOP here?
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Mod: What counts as EBWOP here?
HA HA HA WHOOPS
It is what you think it is. If you make a typo or leave out a word or something, you may Edit By Way Of Post but only if it stays within the 350 word limitation. As further clarifcation, quotes do not count towards the limit.
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Raitaki: Abstain = you won't participate until participation by other people gets something going?
And what constitutes a reasonable bandwagon in your view?
Mod: Ah, I see. That means no adding new content in double posts, basically.
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/teenlogic
stop
I'm cool leaving my vote down on the new guy. Avoiding chipping in until bandwagons form is a scummy stance, and if he was reaction testing then he should have actual thoughts on the reactions. Lazy approaches to D1 are scummy approaches.
I don't agree Serela is a better policy lynch since while they're both scummy for similiar reasons, Serela isn't trying to drop fake towntells.
In the meantime, ##FoS Raitaki.
Not only are FoSes weak, but you're electing to vote the dude you randomvoted over the dude you suspect. Right after stating that you don't like having early votes on people who haven't posted. What?
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Also my bad in advance if I end up making some incoherent post within these first few hours, I'm running on empty in terms of sleep and it hasn't been easy progress trying to rectify.
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So it's better for a completely new guy who hasn't gotten anything to work with to just cover his eyes and pick one lynch victim besides himself at random? k.
Also, as I said, I forgot about replacements. All the reaction people had were talking about whether to modkill me or not, and it's perfectly normal for just about anyone to want a more competent player in play.
Random.org time: ##Vote: IHNN.
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##Unvote
##Vote Raitaki
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##Unvote
Vote Raitaki
Appeasement
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Vote Count: KAWAII DESU UGUU edition
PX (1): Kilgamayan
Raitaki (4): huh what, NekoNekoRex, Omba, PX
huh what (1): Serela
You have some large amount of hours remaining. With 12 in play, it takes 7 votes to launch.
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##Great Content Guys: Omba, PX
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Explain.
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@Omba: Here's an example of "not making a vote-only post and contributing actual content"
@Raitaki
We're kind of mid RVS, but that's no reason to blatantly point it out and and pull another random vote out of your ass while sounding serious.
Also drop the "pregame reaction" thing already. Nobody cares.
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More geared/reactionary towards PX then Omba (who's had other posts, looking back), the "lol unexplained vote swtitch" by Omba just jumped out at me and I wanted to note it out.
[edible]Strike 1. <3[/edible]
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In addition, you may not post consecutively except to EBWOP, which counts against your word limit!
herp
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ffff
I thought that it only meant it counted against the post count, not that Post Trains were banned
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EBWOP
*word count
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I see.
##FoS NekoNekoRex
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I see.
##FoS NekoNekoRex
You hear the studio audience applaud!
Any reason?
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Yup. PX gave a solid reason for his vote and my reason should be very obvious from the context.
Which makes your corresponding post very urgh.
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Random.org time: ##Vote: IHNN.
What have I done to warrant this vote? Was it completely at random? If so, why not random.org among the players you disagree with/haven't posted?
I know this is your first game and all, but you're really not making a good first impression >.>
Notice to town: we are NOT lynching until there are less than 24 hours left. We don't want to start D2 as an extension of D1 down 2 players.
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Why did you feel the need to point this out?
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Because we have an L-3 wagon already with several players yet to show up.
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I'd think L-3 is not that uncommon ED1. Have you ever seen a D1 wagon go to lynch this early here?
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I was a bit too accustomed to having a few players standing around saying little I guess. And atm I don't see anyone worth disagreeing, I can see why I'm being bandwagon'd.
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##Vote IHNN
#74 is off what with the concern over the one vote and the wagon (at the same time, no less). All the while you're still not using your vote.
Agree that NNR's #64 is out of place. At worst, it's an attempt to derail the wagon. At best, it's a weird jab (do consider that we're only on the third page).
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##Vote IHNN
#74 is off what with the concern over the one vote and the wagon (at the same time, no less). All the while you're still not using your vote.
I was trying to find out of there was any reason for the vote other than randomness, I don't see a problem with not wanting D1 to end after <6 hours, if you read everything you'd see my vote is still on Pesco (who hasn't shown up yet but I assume that's because timezones).
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'Using' your vote figuratively, as in pursuing your suspects with it. We're out of RVS, why are you holding onto your RVS vote?
What made you think the day would end after 6 hours?
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Because I've never seen a wagon that large form that early.
I haven't switched votes because of the aforementioned not wanting to see the day end early, and also because Pesco has done nothing to warrant moving the vote (he's also done nothing to warrant keeping it there, and nothing at all)
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I've seen a wagon blow to L-1 quicker than this wagon. Funny enough, it was mine :/
That said, if you didn't want the wagon to grow larger you could have looked at other people and look there for someone to vote instead of hanging on your RVS vote.
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##Vote: Pesco
I have discovered the things in my hair are actually dead rabbit heads. First PM Mind Hax I'M ONTO YOU EDIBLE!
The difference between then and now is that it wasn't an open setup. Additionally reaction testing before the game even begins is striking the wrong chord with me. Oh the irony of banning LLD only to get a player that, so far, seems to play exactly like her.
This kind of thing is emotionally hateful. He doesn't even know who LLD is, why would you bring this up other then to affect everyone else's mob lynch globes? Why does reaction testing before the game begins strike a 'wrong chord' with you? Is it scummy? How? ..And why would you ask someone who said 'random.org' if his vote was random come on. :V
I don't care how "serious" the posts are, there isn't actually much serious for me to do with them. If you haven't noticed, I've rarely been the questioning type in the first place, and I don't really feel like "seriously" pursuing something that's in actuality nothing. While acting like that is sure to help RVS end quick, I'm not good at faking conviction. If you don't believe me look at the last couple of times I was scum. >.>
This is :goodposting: especially for a Serela.
##Unvote
##Vote Serela
Liking this policy lynch better now.
..Or it's terrible? Why would you want to policy lynch Serela for that?
@Raitaki
We're kind of mid RVS, but that's no reason to blatantly point it out and and pull another random vote out of your ass while sounding serious.
Also drop the "pregame reaction" thing already. Nobody cares.
If nobody cares then why are you voting him for it? Do you think his insistance on talking about it is scummy or bad?
For once we have a longer Day 1, so I'm gonna enjoy the questioning stage again. B| Be nice to each other. Remember we're looking for scumbags but most of the people here are our colleagues. Voting new people for being new and weird isn't cool.
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That said, if you didn't want the wagon to grow larger you could have looked at other people and look there for someone to vote instead of hanging on your RVS vote.
At the time 3 other people had really been posting a I didn't find anything scummy there.
This kind of thing is emotionally hateful. He doesn't even know who LLD is, why would you bring this up other then to affect everyone else's mob lynch globes? Why does reaction testing before the game begins strike a 'wrong chord' with you? Is it scummy? How? ..And why would you ask someone who said 'random.org' if his vote was random come on. :V
If it comes across that way it wasn't meant that way at all. The reaction testing in itself isn't inherently scummy, but the way it was went about does feel a bit so. I'm still willing to chalk it up to noob inexperience/hyperactive play-just wanting to do something big in a "no risk" situation.
The input for random.org-was it between everyone? Just the people who posted? Just the people he doesn't find town? etc. etc. etc.
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If it comes across that way it wasn't meant that way at all. The reaction testing in itself isn't inherently scummy, but the way it was went about does feel a bit so. I'm still willing to chalk it up to noob inexperience/hyperactive play-just wanting to do something big in a "no risk" situation.
The input for random.org-was it between everyone? Just the people who posted? Just the people he doesn't find town? etc. etc. etc.
I agree with the assessment it was noob inexperience/hyperactive play-just wanting to do something big. The thing is scum aren't the ones who get excited in that way. I think, postulate even, that if he were scum he would have been too busy posting excitedly in his FIRST EVAR QT to reaction test in the pre-game, just after receiving his role pm.
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Raitaki has yet to produce any reads on other players.
IHNN, is Raitaki scum or not? Instead of why Pesco isn't worth unvoting, tell us why Raitaki isn't worth voting over Pesco.
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Yup. PX gave a solid reason for his vote and my reason should be very obvious from the context.
Which makes your corresponding post very urgh.
Agree that NNR's #64 is out of place. At worst, it's an attempt to derail the wagon. At best, it's a weird jab (do consider that we're only on the third page).
This is why we're having a problem with Mafia. "Context" reasoning is bullshit. If you're going to put a serious vote down, put down some actual reasons on why the player is scummy. The post looks bad, yes, but HOW does it look bad? What makes it scummy? What is the player doing wrong?
Rai is pretty obviously a newb but he's not going to learn any more then we are if you're putting down empty votes.
If nobody cares then why are you voting him for it? Do you think his insistance on talking about it is scummy or bad?
It's pregame garbage and trying to justify or defend it is not worth the hole he'd dig himself into. He'd be better off trying to scumhunt at this point and get in the game.
The difference between then and now is that it wasn't an open setup. Additionally reaction testing before the game even begins is striking the wrong chord with me. Oh the irony of banning LLD only to get a player that, so far, seems to play exactly like her.
I agree with Shadoweh that this is pretty awful comparison. There's no need to slander LLD or compare a newbie to her.
I think, postulate even, that if he were scum he would have been too busy posting excitedly in his FIRST EVAR QT to reaction test in the pre-game, just after receiving his role pm.
There's no need to make excuses to get Rai off the hook either, you guys.
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It's pregame garbage and trying to justify or defend it is not worth the hole he'd dig himself into. He'd be better off trying to scumhunt at this point and get in the game.
Yes but how is that scummy? It sounds like he made a mistake and is being stubborn about sticking to it. I'm trying to understand where the transition is between 'it's terrible' and 'it's scummy'. At least the advice is sound. Scumhunting instead of silly gambits and random.org would make people less likely to lynch him for being strange.
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Yes but how is that scummy? It sounds like he made a mistake and is being stubborn about sticking to it. I'm trying to understand where the transition is between 'it's terrible' and 'it's scummy'. At least the advice is sound. Scumhunting instead of silly gambits and random.org would make people less likely to lynch him for being strange.
It's not all that scummy that he's trying to defend it, I just think he needs to drop it now that it was resolved/clarified/done with and he should focus on doing something more useful with his posts.
I'm not voting him right now so much that he did it or that he's defending it so much as he's not doing anything else.
As someone watching a newbie get accustomed to MotK Mafia I'd rather he be playing in the present rather than defending a dumb post that wasn't even part of when the game started. Helping him get in gear will also give better insight to if he's newbtown or newbscum.
Also wanted to adress this fine point but forgot
Yup. PX gave a solid reason for his vote
>Solid reason
>One Word Post
This is why people think PX is scum half the time. Out of his three posts so far "Appeasement" is the only contributory word that he's put out. One post is a jokepost and the other is peanut gallery commentating.
Make some actually concise posts, please.
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##Vote IHNN
HW asked a good question. The way you explained yourself so far, it can be used as a throwaway reason to keep your vote on anyone that hasn't shown up. Specifically that you don't see a reason to unvote me, who is scummier between me, Affinity and Kilga?
To IHNN and NNR, what's the difference between putting a player at L-3 and L-2? If you are a player who only knows your own alignment, what reason is there to not press someone who is being suspicious?
I don't find anything wrong with PX's vote at this stage. The point is Raitaki made the vote because he was asked to. That's appeasement. No further words necessary.
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I don't find anything wrong with PX's vote at this stage. The point is Raitaki made the vote because he was asked to. That's appeasement. No further words necessary.
Why does it need to take another member justifying his post to make it okay?
To IHNN and NNR, what's the difference between putting a player at L-3 and L-2? If you are a player who only knows your own alignment, what reason is there to not press someone who is being suspicious?
L-2 means it takes one more person to vote before you can hammer yourself. I'd take it as a point in which you need to claim.
Although that would be kind of ridiculous this early in the day/game to need to clalim to get people off your back unless you did something incredibly scumtell.
I AM pressing Raikari for being suspicious but I don't see why I can't give him a shove in the right direction. It would be stupid to lynch a newb for stupid reasons.
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EBWOP
*Raitaki
I think I'm just going to call him Rai if he doesn't mind.
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Townies do scummy things on occasion. What else to differentiate town and scum than by context?
##Vote: BT
For avoiding talking about Rai. Says IHNN is scummy for dancing on Rai. A link seems to be missing.
The idea that he can 'votepark' for the half a day before pesco posts is huh when he could simply not post at all. Not sure why people can't take IHNN's explanations (e.g wagon size, function of random vote) at face value, and BT seems to be the most egregious of these people.
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I am not sure I like the tone of your :words: there Affinity. IHNN was voted randomly by the newbie and to all appearances seemed quite unsettled by it, even used AtE to imply it was an offense to be voting him. The post is more then enough 'proof' of something possibly being off with the guy with no name. No one is taking his explanation at face value because it came out sounding like he was terrified. People who get scared tend to be scum
or beloved doctor informed commuter princess-chans. What in specific is wrong with the points BT brings up against IHNN?
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Really? That post seemed to me more inquisitive than anything. No one shouldn't be playing mafia if you're terrified of a single vote as scum (why should you be regarding a random.org vote which could go anywhere later)?
Nothing is wrong with BT's case (how could it be when it's so simple?). I'm just going by what isn't there, since his opinion on Nameless wasn't accompanied with one on Rai, and Nameless voted the latter.
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I'm just going by what isn't there, since his opinion on Nameless wasn't accompanied with one on Rai, and Nameless voted the latter.
Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm no he didn't. That was part of BT's point.
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HW asked a good question. The way you explained yourself so far, it can be used as a throwaway reason to keep your vote on anyone that hasn't shown up. Specifically that you don't see a reason to unvote me, who is scummier between me, Affinity and Kilga?
To IHNN and NNR, what's the difference between putting a player at L-3 and L-2? If you are a player who only knows your own alignment, what reason is there to not press someone who is being suspicious?
The bolded part is technically true I guess, however it only takes effect D1 and with everyone posting within 24 hours the vote can only stay then. Does D1 ever end within 24 hours? Since for all intents and purposes it's a random vote, is it really that big of a deal? Additionally, you and Affinity had done nothing in the game as of yet.
The difference between L-3 and L-2 is 1 vote. It's also 33% of what else is needed to lynch, and right now 1 less scum player who needs to be on the wagon to hammer. It's probably just paranoia, but it's better to be safe right?
Overall though I like this post, so I see no reason not to ##Unvote
IHNN, is Raitaki scum or not?
Raitaki is still at the point where any slips could be considered getting a feel for the game.
I will admit to overreacting to the vote, but only because there were serious votes at the time and openly random.org-ing seems like coasting.
##Vote: BT
I get a "skim thread that looks like a slip-up throw together quick case vote the easy target" vibe from #79.
Not only are FoSes weak, but you're electing to vote the dude you randomvoted over the dude you suspect. Right after stating that you don't like having early votes on people who haven't posted. What?
Also I never responded to this. An FoS is weak? That's what I intended, because though I suspected it wasn't at the point of "k you die NOW" it wass "would lynch in lieu of a better one". Additionally I think I explained my stance on voting those who haven't posted-my first vote is the exception and, in my eyes, no one had done anything warranting a vote. It's just a playstyle thing.
I counted the non-quoted words and it's ~285.
If the previous post is incoherent in any way, I apologize, as I wrote it over the course of a half hour.
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Shadoweh, is your Pesco vote serious?
Serela eloquently stated his reason for doing nothing. Discarding his nice choice of words, he's saying "yeah I'll be in that corner over there doing nothing, don't mind me, it's what I always do". How is that :goodposting:? He'd make a great policy lynch for not doing anything (and saying as much) and the waffles yet to come I could feel from that post.
I agree with the assessment it was noob inexperience/hyperactive play-just wanting to do something big. The thing is scum aren't the ones who get excited in that way. I think, postulate even, that if he were scum he would have been too busy posting excitedly in his FIRST EVAR QT to reaction test in the pre-game, just after receiving his role pm.
This is not his first time playing mafia, and I'd wager a guess it wouldn't be his first time as scum, either. Does that change anything?
This is why we're having a problem with Mafia. "Context" reasoning is bullshit.[...]
Bullshit. Use your brain. If the reason is obvious I don't necessarily need to state it and if it isn't and you want to know, push me on it. That simple.
For PX - it didn't take someone else's explanation to make his post "okay", it was fine exactly because the explanation Pesco gave for it naturally comes from his one word reason + context.
Reasons for my switch here: Excuses, appeasement vote, tone of post (AtE feel), still did nothing.
There's a pretty awful amount of overjustification of your New guy vote in your posts.
The new guy still hasn't done anything. Vote stays on him.
Kilga, Serela. Get your asses in here.
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This is why we're having a problem with Mafia. "Context" reasoning is bullshit. If you're going to put a serious vote down, put down some actual reasons on why the player is scummy. The post looks bad, yes, but HOW does it look bad? What makes it scummy? What is the player doing wrong?
Read "worst case". Your post was plausibly scum-motivated so I noted as much. Throwing away two votes (Omba's and PX's) to the dump with a simple comment about content (when low-to-gut(no) content votes are nothing special during ed1) is pretty handy for scum.
Nothing is wrong with BT's case (how could it be when it's so simple?). I'm just going by what isn't there, since his opinion on Nameless wasn't accompanied with one on Rai, and Nameless voted the latter.
If I didn't comment on something, either I missed it or it's not worth the comment. Obviously I couldn't miss it, which means I didn't draw anything conclusive from Rai's posting to point at.
Thanks for proving my point, though. Judging by his posts you'd think IHNN had already voted Rai, but he never did. Also, wagon size is a pretty bad point to justify lack of :vote: with. Not to mention one could just vote someone else meanwhile instead of sticking to the RVS vote.
...And his latest post is OMGUS. You could get similar "vibes" from any vote on Rai at this stage. Of course, the votes are reasonable, and so is mine. Too bad "vibes" lets you get away with that, though.
Rereading to see if there's something wrong with the other fellers.
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##Unvote
##Vote: BT
After perusing the thread, I can only say that BT was the first to attempt to derail the bandwagon on me by pressing on IHNN. He also didn't appear to be paying much attention.
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I can only say that BT was the first to attempt to derail the bandwagon on me by pressing on IHNN.
Derailing = scummy because?
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Having to wait for someone to post without being able to ask for someone to post is pretty annoying, just throwing that out there.
I am not sure I like the tone of your :words: there Affinity. IHNN was voted randomly by the newbie and to all appearances seemed quite unsettled by it, even used AtE to imply it was an offense to be voting him. The post is more then enough 'proof' of something possibly being off with the guy with no name. No one is taking his explanation at face value because it came out sounding like he was terrified. People who get scared tend to be scum or beloved doctor informed commuter princess-chans. What in specific is wrong with the points BT brings up against IHNN?
So why aren't you voting IHNN yet?
##Unvote
##Vote: BT
After perusing the thread, I can only say that BT was the first to attempt to derail the bandwagon on me by pressing on IHNN. He also didn't appear to be paying much attention.
Words. What makes it seem like I wasn't paying attention and why is it scummy? Also... you're accusing me of being scum for derailing your wagon?
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Having to wait for someone to post without being able to ask for someone to post is pretty annoying, just throwing that out there.
You could just ##takeiteasy (@mod: no, I'm not doing that right now)
What makes it seem like I wasn't paying attention
I also felt you weren't paying attention to the thread, as evidenced by not knowing I'd voted.
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I also felt you weren't paying attention to the thread, as evidenced by not knowing I'd voted.
Que? You never voted anyone outside of myself and Pesco. My posts mentioned both votes.
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##Unvote
Vote:IHNN
That last vote looks like Omgus mixed with a bullshit reason thrown after someone else voted the same person. His post contains more details to everyone else and slaps a one line "Gut! :D" to the person he's voting.
Also, Affinity seems to believe that not talking about Raitaki = scum. How does that make sense without a flip to go by? Also, calling you out since you haven't taken an opinion on Raitaki either.
And Raitaki's last vote is still blarhgjdg.
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@BT and Omba: I think mafia scum would prefer to lynch good townie players over bad townie players.
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Mafia prefer to lynch any town player. If town manages to lynch a good player on top, the scum be dancing in their top hats and monocles.
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Que? You never voted anyone outside of myself and Pesco. My posts mentioned both votes.
I thought you said I wasn't voting [anyone] in your first post addressing me?
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@BT and Omba: I think mafia scum would prefer to lynch good townie players over bad townie players.
Good players are generally harder to lynch and since there's no doc, scum are free to shoot whomever at night.
This doesn't cut it.
I also felt you weren't paying attention to the thread, as evidenced by not knowing I'd voted.
What made you feel the need to answer the question directed at Raitaki for him?
huh what, Affinity: Broaden your view please.
The same goes for more players than just these two.
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What made you feel the need to answer the question directed at Raitaki for him?
To show that someone else agreed.
Additionally, if I just said it, then I'd be sheeping or something, so I gave my reasoning as well.
That last vote looks like Omgus mixed with a bullshit reason thrown after someone else voted the same person. His post contains more details to everyone else and slaps a one line "Gut! :D" to the person he's voting.
Did you consider that I have more details for everyone else and gut for the person I'm voting? I can't exactly point out what in the post gives me that, but I can point out the post does.
Additionally, Shadoweh voted before I did but that doesn't mean I wasn't going to voteswitch to BT anyway, and even though BT's voteswitch was to me the way it was went about is rather scummy to me, again I don't know exactly why.
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Vote Count: Only One Number One (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UM1r2FeF5LA) edition
PX (1): Kilgamayan
Raitaki (3): huh what, NekoNekoRex, Omba
huh what (1): Serela
IHNN (3): BT, Pesco, PX
BT(3): Affinity, IHNN, Raitaki
Pesco (1): Shadoweh
Not voting: Nobody!
You have ~54.5 hours remaining. With 12 in play, it takes 7 votes to launch.
Edit: General reminder to play nice. Bunch of people are skirting the line; cool it.
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No, my Pesco vote is not serious. I agree with what little he's said so far.
Serela eloquently stated his reason for doing nothing. Discarding his nice choice of words, he's saying "yeah I'll be in that corner over there doing nothing, don't mind me, it's what I always do". How is that :goodposting:? He'd make a great policy lynch for not doing anything (and saying as much) and the waffles yet to come I could feel from that post.
As opposed to the people who are literally just not posting while they wait for 'something' to happen? I don't think there's anything wrong with saying you're not going to try and fake something out of nothing when it's true that we were still in RVS. I'm pretty sure he's here now though and there's about a day of srsbsns going on.
This is not his first time playing mafia, and I'd wager a guess it wouldn't be his first time as scum, either. Does that change anything?
Not really. Having spent some time on MS I have gotten used to all kinds of people who have played mafia before and need those 'don't catch chainsaw with your genitalia' warnings. He sounds pretty new.
##Unvote
##Vote: BT
After perusing the thread, I can only say that BT was the first to attempt to derail the bandwagon on me by pressing on IHNN. He also didn't appear to be paying much attention.
After the amount of attention you've already gotten this isn't sufficient. How is derailing a bandwagon (on town from your perspective) onto someone unknown scummy? Do you think IHNN is town? Why? Considering his post was factual and it's other people that have been misrepresenting him, why do you think he wasn't paying attention? It looks like you made a vote by sheeping Affinity without checking to see if he was right. :|
A question to you: So far, who seems like a Good Townie Player to you?
BT: I'm trying not to bias myself before interogations. I'm deciding between IHNN and Affinity. It's possible that Affinity didn't notice he was incorrect because IHNN's posts are written so loosely. Borrowing free words:
That last vote looks like Omgus mixed with a bullshit reason thrown after someone else voted the same person. His post contains more details to everyone else and slaps a one line "Gut! :D" to the person he's voting.
Also.
The bolded part is technically true I guess, however it only takes effect D1 and with everyone posting within 24 hours the vote can only stay then. Does D1 ever end within 24 hours? Since for all intents and purposes it's a random vote, is it really that big of a deal? Additionally, you and Affinity had done nothing in the game as of yet.
This is your response to Pesco saying your random vote is bad. After your reaction to Rai's random vote on you it's unsettling that you try to write off responsibility for your own. Then you decide that you're okay with Pesco after all for no discernable reason. Pesco is trying to lynch you for something you think isn't a big deal. Why is he good? BT also proved your reason for voting him is wrong. You're ignoring it to keep the new wagon going.
##Vote: I have no name
Having to wait for someone to post without being able to ask for someone to post is pretty annoying, just throwing that out there.
Edible is a genius. I wish I'd thought of it first.
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Additionally, Shadoweh voted before I did
EBWOP: Affinity
@mod: do your own posts count as breaking consecutive posts?
[Edible]Yes. :3[/edible]
This is your response to Pesco saying your random vote is bad. After your reaction to Rai's random vote on you it's unsettling that you try to write off responsibility for your own. Then you decide that you're okay with Pesco after all for no discernable reason. Pesco is trying to lynch you for something you think isn't a big deal. Why is he good? BT also proved your reason for voting him is wrong. You're ignoring it to keep the new wagon going.
Context, context, context. My random vote was in my first post of the game, Raitaki's wasn't in his first post. Pesco posted and though he came to the wrong conclusion, the way he went about it seemed fine so I saw no reason to keep my vote there. Though I don't think it's a big deal, obviously other people do. Reading BT's post again, he said:
Of course, the votes are reasonable, and so is mine.
So I'm not ignoring any proof that my reason for voting him is wrong because, as far as I can tell, said proof doesn't exist.
Leaving now, be back in roughly an hour. I'll answer any questions and hopefully be able to ask some then.
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Why does it need to take another member justifying his post to make it okay?
L-2 means it takes one more person to vote before you can hammer yourself. I'd take it as a point in which you need to claim.
Although that would be kind of ridiculous this early in the day/game to need to clalim to get people off your back unless you did something incredibly scumtell.
I AM pressing Raikari for being suspicious but I don't see why I can't give him a shove in the right direction. It would be stupid to lynch a newb for stupid reasons.
I'm leaving a clear trail of my stances with regards to things that people have mentioned during the day. Transparency is a good thing for all.
Why would anyone want to hammer themselves if they got wagoned to L-2/L-1 before half the day is over? Panicked and inexperienced scum maybe, but then it's a good thing to have put them into that position. Myself as a townie in that position I'd just ignore it because I know there's enough people that will pull out before something stupid happens. You sound like you understand how such a scenario would play out, why worry that much?
I asked a very general version of events, not specific to Raitaki. Someone who is suspicious and is still suspicious after being pressed gets upgraded to likely scum. Town puts faith in their scumhunting and lynches the guy. If scum, yay. If not, reread and look harder. What are these stupid reasons to lynch him for since you call them as such?
b]##Vote: BT[/b]
For avoiding talking about Rai. Says IHNN is scummy for dancing on Rai. A link seems to be missing.
The idea that he can 'votepark' for the half a day before pesco posts is huh when he could simply not post at all. Not sure why people can't take IHNN's explanations (e.g wagon size, function of random vote) at face value, and BT seems to be the most egregious of these people.
Nothing is wrong with BT's case (how could it be when it's so simple?). I'm just going by what isn't there, since his opinion on Nameless wasn't accompanied with one on Rai, and Nameless voted the latter.
I can't make any sense of why you're voting BT for things that sound like they apply to IHNN.
##Unvote
##Vote: BT
After perusing the thread, I can only say that BT was the first to attempt to derail the bandwagon on me by pressing on IHNN. He also didn't appear to be paying much attention.
Needs more visible scumhunting from you. Maybe I'm splitting hairs here but there's two parts to this that I'd like to hear explanations for. How is derailing the wagon on you scummy? How is pressing on IHNN scummy? If it's a combination of both, how was that conclusion reached?
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Context, context, context. My random vote was in my first post of the game, Raitaki's wasn't in his first post. Pesco posted and though he came to the wrong conclusion, the way he went about it seemed fine so I saw no reason to keep my vote there. Though I don't think it's a big deal, obviously other people do.
"The way he went about it" doesn't tell me anything. What in particular did he do that stood out to you? As it stands I'm taking it to mean "I know he has a town role pm".
Reading BT's post again, he said:
Of course, the votes are reasonable, and so is mine.
So I'm not ignoring any proof that my reason for voting him is wrong because, as far as I can tell, said proof doesn't exist.
This is called cherry picking. This is what BT actually said in relation to voting you.
Thanks for proving my point, though. Judging by his posts you'd think IHNN had already voted Rai, but he never did. Also, wagon size is a pretty bad point to justify lack of :vote: with. Not to mention one could just vote someone else meanwhile instead of sticking to the RVS vote.
...And his latest post is OMGUS. You could get similar "vibes" from any vote on Rai at this stage. Of course, the votes are reasonable, and so is mine. Too bad "vibes" lets you get away with that, though.
His line is referencing the votes on Rai's wagon. By quoting it out of context you're making it sound like he's saying yours and Rai's random votes are the same. That's blatant misrepresentation.
As for the reason you voted for him, you didn't give a reason at first. It took a second post for you to say:
I also felt you weren't paying attention to the thread, as evidenced by not knowing I'd voted.
BT then says that he did in fact mention both your votes.
I thought you said I wasn't voting [anyone] in your first post addressing me?
In his first post addressing you, he said you weren't using your vote. In his very next post he clarifies to you that an RVS vote is not using your vote. (it's not). You're not going back and checking to see if you're voting your suspect for the right reasons. If you had you would realize you were wrong. As I am now bringing this to your attention I expect you to explain why you're voting based on word semantics.
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That's blatant misrepresentation.
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You're not going back and checking to see if you're voting your suspect for the right reasons. If you had you would realize you were wrong. As I am now bringing this to your attention I expect you to explain why you're voting based on word semantics.
The problem here is it's operating under the assumption that I was misrepresenting. I was actually misinterpreting-I know there's no proof either way, but I honestly misinterpreted BT's posts.
...
I did go back, several times, but off the misinterpretations. As you have now pointed out, I was clearly mistaken, and so I will ##Unvote
I guess now I need to go back over everything and see if I want to put my vote back on BT and see if there's anyone I overlooked.
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@Pesco: I placed my vote on BT because I reasoned that scum would prefer to get a good townie player lynched. There aren't many players here that openly expressed an opinion that I should not be lynched, so scum can still attempt to drive the bandwagon back into me if they so wanted, they still have the time to do so.
As for pressing on IHNN, I'd guess that (assuming BT is scum) was an attempt to use IHNN's reaction to my random vote to build up momentum for a bandwagon by having another scum player later join in. I'm not saying at least one of the players poking at IHNN must be scum though.
So anyways, that's my reasoning for the vote, although I'm not completely sure of it myself.
@Shadoweh: I'd say you're a fairly good player, and I can see that you try to keep being involved and...uh...analytic? I'm not a good judge of behavior though, so I can't say with certainty that you're a townie.
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Both your reasoning and explanation give me the vibe that you don't want to call IHNN scum.
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Actually, when I came to this reasoning I concluded that if it was correct then IHNN would not be scum.
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Yup that's me. Analytic and precise and all serious business. I'm not asking if you think -I'm- a good player though. I'm asking who you think is being a good townie by your definition and why. Do you think IHNN is a good townie? What about Pesco, Kilgamayan, BT, NekoNekoRex etc?
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As I said, I'm a terrible judge of character/behavior. I can't even tell who's a likely townie yet in this stage of the game.
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Actually, when I came to this reasoning I concluded that if it was correct then IHNN would not be scum.
And here we reach the heart of the matter: is IHNN town? Clearing people because your scumreads are lynching them is a mistake you don't want to make. In fact, you're not even sure of your vote. If this isn't your cue I don't know what is: go read IHNN and tell me if anything miraculously changed.
General impression is that there is a lack of scum in the building. Eagerly awaiting reading HW/Serela/Kilga once they actually show up. <_<
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I still don't like BT very much after re-reading but I can't figure out why.
There's something funny about Omba though in general I find myself agreeing.
So, with my gut already saying "these 2 are scum!!!11!one" at this point...I don't know. I always seem to have 2 gut votes D1.
Moving on to everyone else, Kilga needs to post more, Pesco needs to post more, huh what needs to post more, Serela needs to post more and PX could stand to post a little more.
Continuing, Shadoweh, though she's voting me, she has reasons for it that make sense. Would not lynch.
Neko has been absent for a while but from what he posted I don't see any problems.
Affinity I agree with on pretty much everything that's been said. Would not lynch.
and that leaves Raitaki. In hindsight he looks worse than I thought, seems to be making excuses for everything, though does seem to be using some logic. But, logic is null so... ##Vote: Raitaki (L-3)
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Vote Count: Only One Number One (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UM1r2FeF5LA) edition
edible pls stop enabling nnr
huh what, Affinity: Broaden your view please.
The same goes for more players than just these two.
How, by throwing out "kilga serela please respond" at the end of every post I make? 1 - 2 strong scum reads are good enough for D1 if you're not giving everybody else a pass.
General impression is that there is a lack of scum in the building. Eagerly awaiting reading HW/Serela/Kilga once they actually show up. <_<
My last post was at 10PM my time. Pretty sure the only thing I'm guilty of is sleeping in
.
Dislike Raitaki's BT vote. How is Raitaki not guilty of the same "wagon derailment" by tying BT with IHNN? BT's vote wasn't even guaranteed to start a wagon, Raitaki's was guaranteed to contribute to one. It's hypocritical and for a wait-and-see wagon hop the vote doesn't look very thought out. Does he have any scum reads or even just nitpicky comments on the people who aren't already targets?
Rex is overjustifying and it really really looks like he's setting himself up to turn around and vote somebody who was on the Raitaki wagon after Raitaki posts real content. He's spending more time bickering about people voting Raitaki for the wrong reasons than pressing Raitaki for being scum. Makes his vote seem false. Want to hear his thoughts on Raitaki's recent posts.
The BT wagon looks weak to me, only vote on it with substance is Affinity's and I still find that questionable; there's no need to fluff up your posts talking about somebody if your read on them isn't relevant.
IHNN has read more Silly than Scummy to me but there are enough plays I have actual issues with - the voteparking, being overreactive wrt Raitaki's vote, folding over the BT vote to go "WHOOPS EMPTY UNVOTE I NEED TO RE-READ" - that I wouldn't be sad to see him go.
Shadoweh, why does it matter who Raitaki is reading as town halfway into day 1?
--
IHNN cut: Uhhhhh that's a lot of fluff points and some questionable PoE. Why do we need to know that you wouldn't lynch Shadoweh/Affinity if we're not currently wagoning them? Also Pesco has said more of worth than PX and both have posted reasonably.
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"I NEED TO RE-READ" - that I wouldn't be sad to see him go.
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IHNN cut: Uhhhhh that's a lot of fluff points and some questionable PoE. Why do we need to know that you wouldn't lynch Shadoweh/Affinity if we're not currently wagoning them? Also Pesco has said more of worth than PX and both have posted reasonably.
Haven't I done that every game?
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I was giving an opinion on everyone and the people I have a null read on I said should post a little more.
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I'd frownface at Omba for attacking me over doing a random vote in RVS and saying I'm not going to be contributing to imaginary scumhunting, but then I also didn't do anything for a significant amount of time after, so I guess it eventually became a legitimate point, and it's not like he was sitting his vote on me for a long time before the point became legitimate either.
Rai is argh, but since this is his first game here, I'm not terribly surprised at such, so, as usual, leaving that for later in the game where there's more things to look at then "his posts are weird", which anyone could guess would happen since before the game started.
IHNN is posting a bunch, and it feels like he's at least trying, even if it's coming out sort of weird, so I'm not interested in him as a D1 lynch.
cut while I was doing more rereads on people to figure out who I think is scum and okay nevermind.
##Unvote ##Vote IHNN
He goes through all that only for him to chicken out and go back to voting Raitaki. Okay, well, I guess he never -was- voting Raitaki, but it almost feels like he has been, considering how he's been talking about him during the day so far. IHNN's BT vote only felt like an afterthought given the amount of attention he gave it in his post compared to everything else, and he was easily talked out of it. He barely even sounds convinced in his Raitaki vote, saying "Well he looks worse in hindsight" and moreso in "...but he's using logic! But logic is null, soooooo..."
It feels like he's scum going "Man, I don't know who to vote anymore, well I can totally get away with voting Raitaki" and just shoving his vote on while adding in inconsequential babbles on everyone else.
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IHNN is posting a bunch, and it feels like he's at least trying, even if it's coming out sort of weird
...
It feels like he's town going "Man, I don't know who to vote anymore why I want to vote BT, well I can totally get away with voting Raitaki at least I have someone else I found scummy" and just shoving his vote on while adding in inconsequential babbles trying to give opinions on everyone else.
Fixed that for you.
If being confused is scummy then I'm number 1 scum. Compare this game to Shadoweh's game though-my play is nothing alike.
Also I'm at L-2 now. Would the (by gut) 4 townies on me please unvote?
I honestly feel like Serela is another person voting the guy with the most posts because more posts=more opportunities to do something someone construes as scummy.
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Actually, when I came to this reasoning I concluded that if it was correct then IHNN would not be scum.
@Pesco: I placed my vote on BT because I reasoned that scum would prefer to get a good townie player lynched. There aren't many players here that openly expressed an opinion that I should not be lynched, so scum can still attempt to drive the bandwagon back into me if they so wanted, they still have the time to do so.
As for pressing on IHNN, I'd guess that (assuming BT is scum) was an attempt to use IHNN's reaction to my random vote to build up momentum for a bandwagon by having another scum player later join in. I'm not saying at least one of the players poking at IHNN must be scum though.
@BT and Omba: I think mafia scum would prefer to lynch good townie players over bad townie players.
As I said, I'm a terrible judge of character/behavior. I can't even tell who's a likely townie yet in this stage of the game.
If I'm following this right, you would have to assume that IHNN is a good player, such that scumBT wanted to try lynch them. Considering that you take this as expected scum play, I would reason that you as scum, following this same play could see BT as a good player that you want to get lynched.
You still haven't given a clear explanation as to why derailing your wagon was a scummy thing to do.
There's just a whole lot of assumption and disconnect here that I don't see you scumhunting. People who don't scumhunt are scum.
##Unvote
##Vote Raitaki
HW asked more good questions about your vote placement.
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Present.
(http://i50.tinypic.com/j11rty.jpg) - [Edible][/edible]
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Read "worst case". Your post was plausibly scum-motivated so I noted as much. Throwing away two votes (Omba's and PX's) to the dump with a simple comment about content (when low-to-gut(no) content votes are nothing special during ed1) is pretty handy for scum.
I never said I thought they were scum, I just think that if we're trying to recover from a game where half the people were sheep, then a lack of post content should be something worth calling out.
Bullshit. Use your brain. If the reason is obvious I don't necessarily need to state it and if it isn't and you want to know, push me on it. That simple.
For PX - it didn't take someone else's explanation to make his post "okay", it was fine exactly because the explanation Pesco gave for it naturally comes from his one word reason + context.
Reasons for my switch here: Excuses, appeasement vote, tone of post (AtE feel), still did nothing.
There's a pretty awful amount of overjustification of your New guy vote in your posts.
You know what, I'm just going to drop this if you can't just admit your vote had basically no content behind it and that it was just as likely to be a sheep vote then a vote with any reasons attached. PX seems to be ignoring me but at least he's putting out content now too so it's not even important.
I'll just wait and continue reading before I make some more comments. Better then letting this sit here unposted.
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Way too many words for first 24 hours of game. Not behavior we should be teaching/encouraging/enabling.
Uninterested in Ihnnaba or Raitalky lynch at present, both games scream "inexperienced townie with little clue what they're doing".
Shadoweh, why did you ask Raitaki to judge my play so far?
##Unvote, ##Vote: Omba
Lots of questions that only go somewhere sometimes, recall more empty townie fluff than anyone else other than Ihnnaba (whose behavior in this regard can be chalked up to being super-excitable). Empty question in #47 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg866796.html#msg866796) (answer should have been contextually obvious), empty call for activity (and needless antagonistic aggression) in #99 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg867033.html#msg867033), empty townie fluff at end of #110 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg867069.html#msg867069), things like that. Also disagree with early Serela assessment, explanation in #99 puts rather nasty spin on early Serela post and citing "the waffles yet to come I could feel from that post" in particular cannot possibly accomplish anything but discouragement. Also also get overall sense of attempt to remind people he exists with each post, as well as encourage noise, both probably at least in part from glut of questions. Purpose of game being to encourage good play makes asking newbies lots of questions good show of activity/:goodposting:, so glut of questions are null on their own and can be interpreted as I have done in light of other issues.
Fake Edit: Frowny face at end of NNR's most recent post. :| Comes after mod put out call to play nice - if there were any lingering personal issue they should have been put to bed then - and tone does little else but to antagonize and dull the intended point.
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Man this PR is annoying, didn't think I'd have to wait that long to post.
Anyway reading up to this point nothing has really jumped out at me as bad, the case on IHNN looks like a lot of arm-flailing so far and doesn't seem very strong. Serela's post seems to be the exception to this, her reasoning for voting NoName comes off as forced and it looks backed up with a bunch of fluff.
##Unvote
##Vote: Serela
Rai's wagon still hasn't convinced me he's scum instead of newbplay, but I'll hop back on if he starts showing some actual scum tendencies.
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Nothing is wrong with BT's case (how could it be when it's so simple?). I'm just going by what isn't there, since his opinion on Nameless wasn't accompanied with one on Rai, and Nameless FoS'ed the latter.
Correcting myself. Point stands that one should consider IHNN's actions in context of Rai before forming an opinion on him as scummy, given that Rai is so polarizing. BT and Serela are quite guilty of this, I think, though BT's responses have appeased me a bit.
I simply don't see what Nameless staying stalwart on pesco for half a day has accomplished from a scum perspective. So that he could vote Rai much later? Yes, his opinions are sadly neutral and sheep-ish, but I think he's town. Same goes for Rai.
It feels like he's scum going "Man, I don't know who to vote anymore, well I can totally get away with voting Raitaki"
@Serela: Why is IHNN's late vote on Rai scummy when he could have done so much earlier and more naturally early D1? There were abundant reasons to 'appear strong'.
===
##Unvote
##Vote: Omba
I agree with Kilga on Omba, actually. Omba's posts are mostly about staying on Rai, while going on side-tangents with other people through questioning which have not shown their real use. The fact that he's not asking the people he thinks are scum those questions (e.g Serela, Nameless), seems like the opposite of good, flexible, scumhunting.
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The fact that he's not asking the people he thinks are scum those questions (e.g Serela, Nameless), seems like the opposite of good, flexible, scumhunting.
Where did I state that I think of No name as scum and how was I supposed to ask Serela questions when he hadn't posted -at all- outside of his one post where he told us he won't post for a while?
Moreover, how is asking people other than current scumreads questions the opposite of -flexible- scumhunting?
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Okay, fine, not Nameless but Rai. Pardon the rhetoric. Compared to people like pesco and huhwhat you seem more kosher about leaving your vote there without questioning him, waiting for him to magically sprout 'good content'. Why is this so?
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*sigh*
and again, more experienced players come in and put into words what I'm thinking far more eloquently/convincingly than I've been able to.
There's something funny about Omba though in general I find myself agreeing [with him].
click the above green text for casewall
Kilga's post pretty much exactly sums it up, with more words and more reasons than I would have.
Neko, what are your thoughts on Omba?
Omba, what are your thoughts on BT?
BT, what are your thoughts on me?
@mod, can we get a votecount?
Likely going offline for the night. Won't be around much tomorrow, what with driving practice+lesson and DSDQ recording.
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Vote Count: meow meow meow meow meow (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJhXJ3kifkw) edition
Raitaki (4): huh what, Omba, IHNN, Pesco
IHNN (4): BT, PX, Shadoweh, Serela
Omba (2): Kilgamayan, Affinity
BT(1): Raitaki
Serela (1): NekoNekoRex
Not voting: Nobody!
You have ~45 hours remaining. With 12 in play, it takes 7 votes to launch.
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Affinity what was your BT case in the first place when all I could make out was you sounding like IHNN was the scummier one?
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Seconding huhwhat's comments on Neko, indeed seems like a lot of talk to get people off the Raitaki wagon while keeping his vote fairly planted on it. Would like to see his comments on Raitaki's current play.
Still don't like Affinity's first post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg866987.html#msg866987), he condemned people for not commenting on Raitaki, yet didn't comment on Raitaki himself.
IHNN's 124 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg867144.html#msg867144) and 137 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg867289.html#msg867289) still feel pretty blarghghgh to me. If you feel Kilga's case sums up your feelings, why aren't you following it with a vote instead of planting your vote on Raitaki, who doesn't seem like you see as scum. And that post 124 felt more like fluff to excuse a bad vote.
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PX, Neko is currently voting Serela though. Do you think his vote switch is legit?
For the people asking why I asked Rai about who he thinks is town: :| Because I was trying to walk him through figuring out his town reads. I threw out a bunch of random names in case he wasn't going to answer me if I didn't. His answer was disapointing.
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Koromo can't determine if his switch is legit or genuine or not because he never really expressed his opinion on his previous vote.
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Townies hunt scum. Why are you looking for townies Shadoweh? Finding town reads is not in the win condition of town.
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Shadoweh: Uninterested in hearing general purpose of list, since I could figure that out on my own. Interested in why I was included. Particularly interested in what answer you expected him to give about me, given I had said a grand total of one non-serious word outside very first post of game.
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I'm not looking for townies. I'm looking to understand the way people think.
Kilga: Honestly, because when I think of 'good townies' you're one of the first names to come to my mind. It occured to me he wouldn't know that on his own. I didn't expect him to say anything about you.
I'm satisfied with IHNN's response at the moment. More importantly in my mind, he was voted right after by this.
I'd frownface at Omba for attacking me over doing a random vote in RVS and saying I'm not going to be contributing to imaginary scumhunting, but then I also didn't do anything for a significant amount of time after, so I guess it eventually became a legitimate point, and it's not like he was sitting his vote on me for a long time before the point became legitimate either.
Rai is argh, but since this is his first game here, I'm not terribly surprised at such, so, as usual, leaving that for later in the game where there's more things to look at then "his posts are weird", which anyone could guess would happen since before the game started.
IHNN is posting a bunch, and it feels like he's at least trying, even if it's coming out sort of weird, so I'm not interested in him as a D1 lynch.
Information instead of analysis. Three people mentioned and no indication of how Serela actually feels about any of them. He's also making excuses for people's actions when he should have no reason to assume people are acting in good faith.
##Unvote ##Vote IHNN
He goes through all that only for him to chicken out and go back to voting Raitaki. Okay, well, I guess he never -was- voting Raitaki, but it almost feels like he has been, considering how he's been talking about him during the day so far. IHNN's BT vote only felt like an afterthought given the amount of attention he gave it in his post compared to everything else, and he was easily talked out of it. He barely even sounds convinced in his Raitaki vote, saying "Well he looks worse in hindsight" and moreso in "...but he's using logic! But logic is null, soooooo..."
I wouldn't say IHNN was easily talked out of his vote. He conceded an argument when he was shown he was wrong. Being wrong doesn't make you scum. You don't explain why it matters that he 'went back' to Raitaki despite fluffing your argument by reminding us how much he was talking about him. If he was already suspicious of Raitaki, and was confronted with the notion that his current suspicions were incorrect, doesn't it make sense that he voted for someone he's been suspicious of for awhile? I think this is just more information instead of analysis. You're telling us what IHNN did and adding "and that's scummy" to the end.
So let's go over the checklist.
- Has posted all of twice in the last 24 hours? Check.
- Has not posted any town or scumreads? Check.
- Jumped onto an alreadymade bandwagon without any original points? Check.
- Sounds like he's trying to convince himself he hates people, not other people? Check.
In short Serela:
It feels like he's scum going "Man, I don't know who to vote anymore, well I can totally get away with voting RaitakiI have no name" and just shoving his vote on while adding in inconsequential babbles on everyone else.
##Unvote
##VOTE: SERELA
You judge a lurker by the few things they do post. When a person turns up infrequently to add nothing, that lurker is likely scum. I highly doubt Serela is going to rush to post more in his defense if he's scum, so I'd appreciate if people don't give out free passes for not posting.
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o_O Who is giving out free passes for not posting? I hold that D1 is too early for LAL because extenuating circumstances are entirely possible, but I don't automatically think D1 lurkers are town, and I don't recall anyone in this game positing that lurkers should get a free ride outside of maybe Ihnnaba really early on (and that was under conditionals that don't apply at present anyway). It's possible I missed someone varbally giving lurkers a free pass but I don't recall it.
How do you propose we not give lurkers a free pass, anyway? Should we only vote lurkers or what? Or should we attach empty lurker calls to our posts?
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Affinity what was your BT case in the first place when all I could make out was you sounding like IHNN was the scummier one?
BT did not give an opinion on Rai while voting IHNN for FoS'ing instead of voting Rai, making it seem contextless. Thus it seems most like a jump compared to that of others, which seem more well-meaning and complete.
Still don't like Affinity's first post, he condemned people for not commenting on Raitaki, yet didn't comment on Raitaki himself.
If you find Nameless scummy, surely you must have an opinion on Rai given that the vote on Nameless is due to him dancing on Rai.
I don't agree with the case on Nameless thus I find him exempt.
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o_O Who is giving out free passes for not posting? I hold that D1 is too early for LAL because extenuating circumstances are entirely possible, but I don't automatically think D1 lurkers are town, and I don't recall anyone in this game positing that lurkers should get a free ride outside of maybe Ihnnaba really early on (and that was under conditionals that don't apply at present anyway). It's possible I missed someone varbally giving lurkers a free pass but I don't recall it.
How do you propose we not give lurkers a free pass, anyway? Should we only vote lurkers or what? Or should we attach empty lurker calls to our posts?
It's been my experience that this happens every game when a lurker is put forward as a lynching option. Regardless I'd prefer if you address the case I made and tell me if you agree with me instead of making it sound like I'm calling for a lurker hunt.
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Shadoweh: Case is neat, but I prefer the dude with a solid stance over the dude that blames his lack of a solid stance on meta. What in particular made you satisfied with IHNN's response?
Not seeing the Omba case so much. Continuous fluff would be a problem but so far he voiced his opinions passably at worst.
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Reread from the very beginning
Notice to town: we are NOT lynching until there are less than 24 hours left. We don't want to start D2 as an extension of D1 down 2 players.
Notice to town: There's no need to drag the game out to the last minute if there's an obvious lynch and nobody has anything new to say.
I agree with the assessment it was noob inexperience/hyperactive play-just wanting to do something big. The thing is scum aren't the ones who get excited in that way. I think, postulate even, that if he were scum he would have been too busy posting excitedly in his FIRST EVAR QT to reaction test in the pre-game, just after receiving his role pm.
What do scum do after that? This post is one of those instances of making excuses for suspect play. Zero scumhunting worth.
##Vote: Raitaki
Stance on outside posting already has me on edge. Trying to make a deal out of pregame bullshit after the fact only it makes it worse.
I'm not voting him [Raitaki] right now so much that he did it or that he's defending it so much as he's not doing anything else.
There was no new information from Raitaki between the two posts. Your reason doesn't quite sound the same from the two points in time.
Neko has been absent for a while but from what he posted I don't see any problems.
Affinity I agree with on pretty much everything that's been said. Would not lynch.
and that leaves Raitaki. In hindsight he looks worse than I thought, seems to be making excuses for everything, though does seem to be using some logic. But, logic is null so... ##Vote: Raitaki (L-3)
Explain these 2 clears. The vote here is just an empty action. You don't really want to lynch Raitaki.
##Unvote ##Vote IHNN
He goes through all that only for him to chicken out and go back to voting Raitaki. Okay, well, I guess he never -was- voting Raitaki, but it almost feels like he has been, considering how he's been talking about him during the day so far. IHNN's BT vote only felt like an afterthought given the amount of attention he gave it in his post compared to everything else, and he was easily talked out of it. He barely even sounds convinced in his Raitaki vote, saying "Well he looks worse in hindsight" and moreso in "...but he's using logic! But logic is null, soooooo..."
It feels like he's scum going "Man, I don't know who to vote anymore, well I can totally get away with voting Raitaki" and just shoving his vote on while adding in inconsequential babbles on everyone else.
This actually looks opportunistic. You weren't done rereading but saw a votable opening. Jump on and forget about reading the rest of the game?
##Unvote
##Vote: Serela
Rai's wagon still hasn't convinced me he's scum instead of newbplay, but I'll hop back on if he starts showing some actual scum tendencies.
Look back up at my question of your motivation to vote Raitaki. Back there the focus was on his not doing anything. Here it's about his wagon that's dictating your scumread?
I hear the case on Omba for hit-and-run voting. I'd like to see some more back and forth between him and Kilga if I'm going to have a read on this.
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There was no new information from Raitaki between the two posts. Your reason doesn't quite sound the same from the two points in time.
Explain these 2 clears. The vote here is just an empty action. You don't really want to lynch Raitaki.
Look back up at my question of your motivation to vote Raitaki. Back there the focus was on his not doing anything. Here it's about his wagon that's dictating your scumread?
The first post was neck deep in RVS. There was literally nothing else to go on and the game was in a state where RVS was full of serious votes.
The second (which WAS after he had posted more) was after a change in perspective when it became readily apparent he was too newby to determine exactly how scummy he really was, but still bad enough to warrant pressure.
Since empty unvoting is bad and I didn't take a note of anything scummy enough to warrant attention to switch my vote had been on him until that point.
His scumhunting is flawed and his effort is sub-par, which are both scummy traits, but also newby ones. It's difficult to determine if he's newbscum at the moment.
Anyways time to reread Omba.
Perfect. D1 policy lynch, we can make it happen.
##Unvote
##Vote Serela
Liking this policy lynch better now.
He'd make a great policy lynch for not doing anything
Sensing a pattern here
Omba's posts seem kind of paranoid and over-reactive. Plus the above pattern makes him seem pretty suspicious to me.
I'd vote him, yeah.
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Shadoweh: If you want townreads, mine would be you and Pesco. As for the rest of your complaints, while I disagree with some of them, I also see where you're coming from. :T I generally struggle to get anything done D1, which is why I generally also lurk the hell out of it.
Pesco:I should have elaborated on that, in hindsight it does look pretty bad >_> I had already reread the game once or twice, but I couldn't figure out who I wanted to vote out of anyone, which is the only reason I was still going at it more. I stopped afterwords because it seemed pointless to do a third or fourth reread when I hadn't gotten much out of the first couple times, since I had managed to get a scumread.
...I just noticed Raitaki is less then an hour away from a prod :/ Considering his BT case is ??? (For being the first to try to "derail the wagon by voting IHNN", which... I'm not sure how this is supposed to be indicative of alignment at all), and being under heavy fire, him suddenly turning towards lurking it up isn't very good. Still reluctant about actually lynching him just off sketchy play because new players are easily capable of all this as town, but, I have to admit it's starting to look sort of... yeah.
Neko:My reasoning looks forced? Eh, Pesco seems to at least agree on the "IHNN doesn't look like he really wants to lynch Raitaki" part according to the post right before this one. :Shrug: IHNN's Raitaki vote post just looks to me like throwaway babble and making up excuses to vote someone he doesn't really think is scum.
Affinity:See above. It may have been strong ed1, but the way he came back to it looks like he's falling back on the only vote he can justify due to his BT case falling through.
Huh. I reread to see what the hubbub was about Omba and most of his posts are null responses about stuff (Which isn't bad in itself, but does
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Neko:My reasoning looks forced? Eh, Pesco seems to at least agree on the "IHNN doesn't look like he really wants to lynch Raitaki" part according to the post right before this one. :Shrug: IHNN's Raitaki vote post just looks to me like throwaway babble and making up excuses to vote someone he doesn't really think is scum.
It looks like a wagon hop with fluff thrown in for cover. Your reasons for voting don't convince me much like other votes in IHNN
Plus what Shadoweh said about IioA
Even that post looks like a wall of commentating.
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Whoops. I never noticed >_>;
At the moment, I've noticed that my call on BT was a bad call, so I've been trying to reread everyone separately (I've just remembered that I could do that by clicking on someone's profile and click "Show Posts"...) while reading general MS wiki stuff and the previous game's D1. I'm not yet confident enough to make another call though.
@Pesco: About the reason I think derailing my wagon was scummy...maybe you've already read and discarded it, but it was because I assumed that scum would levitate towards lynching more competent townies if they think they can.
@HW: ...Good point. I never considered that.
As for gut feelings, I'd say Serela's posts look a bit awkward, but I'm not one to judge >_>; Also considering how Shadoweh declared that Kilga is the first person that comes to her mind as a good townie, Kilga hasn't posted a lot, although the posts he did make don't look scummy or strange, and I'd know better than to meta.
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Explain these 2 clears. The vote here is just an empty action. You don't really want to lynch Raitaki.
The 2 clears mentioned are for exactly the reasons I gave. The vote on Raitaki was because I didn't see anyone else scummy for any reasons I could pin down. He's not the worst possible lynch I'd say, but you're right about not being my first choice any more.
##Unvote
Will re-vote after re-reading the current not-me wagons.
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The 2 clears mentioned are for exactly the reasons I gave. The vote on Raitaki was because I didn't see anyone else scummy for any reasons I could pin down. He's not the worst possible lynch I'd say, but you're right about not being my first choice any more.
The reasons you gave are not clear. What was fine about NNR's posts and what are you agreeing with from Affinity?
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Raitaki: Considering you're not a new mafia player, I'm hard pressed to believe you're completely unable to do any scumhunting. Promises to do it at some later point do not cut it. Among other things, you're currently getting voted for not contributing anything useful. Even the worst case you can make is better than none at all. I will not listen to your excuses.
No name: How do you already know Raitaki is not your first choice anymore when you haven't done your re-read to determine your first choice yet?
Affinity: I'll give you a few hours to find the flaws in your case on me and produce a better one. As it stands, I'm inclined to believe you wanted to follow Kilga's vote on me and needed to find any sort of original reasoning to justify your own vote so you don't look like you're just sheeping him.
Serela's posts show exactly what I meant with the waffling yet to come.
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Raitaki: Considering you're not a new mafia player, I'm hard pressed to believe you're completely unable to do any scumhunting. Promises to do it at some later point do not cut it. Among other things, you're currently getting voted for not contributing anything useful. Even the worst case you can make is better than none at all. I will not listen to your excuses.
Well it didn't help that in all the games I played D1 lynchings were based on N1 action results and stuff like this (http://www.staredit.net/313385/).
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Shadoweh: Case is neat, but I prefer the dude with a solid stance over the dude that blames his lack of a solid stance on meta. What in particular made you satisfied with IHNN's response?
Who is this guy with the solid stance you're referring to? Serela can't agree on his feelings for the person he's voting for in the same post.
To name something in particular. I did answer the question somewhat when outlining what I thought of Serela's vote.
I wouldn't say IHNN was easily talked out of his vote. He conceded an argument when he was shown he was wrong. Being wrong doesn't make you scum. You don't explain why it matters that he 'went back' to Raitaki despite fluffing your argument by reminding us how much he was talking about him. If he was already suspicious of Raitaki, and was confronted with the notion that his current suspicions were incorrect, doesn't it make sense that he voted for someone he's been suspicious of for awhile?
I think his thoughts follow a natural progression. Where do I go from here -----> Looking over people and what you think of them ----> Vote person you still find suspicious.
I agree with the assessment it was noob inexperience/hyperactive play-just wanting to do something big. The thing is scum aren't the ones who get excited in that way. I think, postulate even, that if he were scum he would have been too busy posting excitedly in his FIRST EVAR QT to reaction test in the pre-game, just after receiving his role pm.
What do scum do after that? This post is one of those instances of making excuses for suspect play. Zero scumhunting worth.
I'm not sure what you're asking here. Afterwards they would post during the RVS? Pesco, are you scum or just trying to 'prove' that I don't scumhunt again? I'll say it again. I'm trying to understand people.
Shadoweh: If you want townreads, mine would be you and Pesco. As for the rest of your complaints, while I disagree with some of them, I also see where you're coming from. :T I generally struggle to get anything done D1, which is why I generally also lurk the hell out of it.
Why? What have Pesco and I done to seem town to you? I was commenting on your lack of scumreads.
Pesco:I should have elaborated on that, in hindsight it does look pretty bad >_> I had already reread the game once or twice, but I couldn't figure out who I wanted to vote out of anyone, which is the only reason I was still going at it more. I stopped afterwords because it seemed pointless to do a third or fourth reread when I hadn't gotten much out of the first couple times, since I had managed to get a scumread.
This is an excuse that only works as fluff to tell us you read the game four times without getting any stances on anyone. The implication in your post was that you literally only got a 'scum read' when you were cut by I have no name.
...I just noticed Raitaki is less then an hour away from a prod :/ Considering his BT case is ??? (For being the first to try to "derail the wagon by voting IHNN", which... I'm not sure how this is supposed to be indicative of alignment at all), and being under heavy fire, him suddenly turning towards lurking it up isn't very good. Still reluctant about actually lynching him just off sketchy play because new players are easily capable of all this as town, but, I have to admit it's starting to look sort of... yeah.
You're willing to possibly lynch the newbie not because of anything he's done, but because he almost got prodded. You can't convince yourself he's done anything deserving of being lynched in the end. This is your version of a scum read.
Neko:My reasoning looks forced? Eh, Pesco seems to at least agree on the "IHNN doesn't look like he really wants to lynch Raitaki" part according to the post right before this one. :Shrug: IHNN's Raitaki vote post just looks to me like throwaway babble and making up excuses to vote someone he doesn't really think is scum.
Affinity:See above. It may have been strong ed1, but the way he came back to it looks like he's falling back on the only vote he can justify due to his BT case falling through.
Why do we care if Pesco agrees with your reasoning? It doesn't suddenly make your post valid. Why as scum would he be looking for a real reason to justify a vote?
Huh. I reread to see what the hubbub was about Omba and most of his posts are null responses about stuff (Which isn't bad in itself, but does mean I was off in thinking "Oh Omba's been posting a lot of stuff" and not really looking at him much in terms of is-this-person-scum etc). Now that I look again, his votes look opportunistic (Serela makes excuse to not do something in rvs, Vote Serela, new guy uses random.org a bit after the point it's acceptable, vote and since he never really does anything great can just coast by on him while throwing in comments here and there, etc), I can see the case on him.
This looks almost exactly like your case on I have no name. You're describing what Omba has done and adding 'I can see a case on him', which isn't even going as far as to say 'I think he's scummy'. Because you don't. Because you're just repeating what other people are saying and hoping it sounds good enough to get you through to the next day.
To recap.
Number of people mentioned in this post: 7
Number of people Serela is willing to admit he thinks are scum: 0
##Confirm Vote: Stayin' Right Here.
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No name: How do you already know Raitaki is not your first choice anymore when you haven't done your re-read to determine your first choice yet?
Because, due to re-reading, I no longer have a first choice.
The reasons you gave are not clear. What was fine about NNR's posts and what are you agreeing with from Affinity?
I didn't see any problems with NNR, he seems to be playing the same way he always does and they didn't raise any red flags. I didn't disagree with anything Affinity had put down at the time of those tentative clears.
Omba:
Lots of short posts, votes the new guy, wants him policy lynched (???! I thought this game was supposed to not do stuff like that.) huh what voted Raitaki as well, but had a reason. Lots of back and forth with me either not understanding what I'm saying or trying to make me scumslip (not gonna happen). Switches to Serela, also for policy lynch reasons? Last game Serela played very well, not sure how that's policy-lynch worthy...except from a scum perspective. #61 switches back to Raitaki with no text. #65 is 1 word in response to Neko. FoS's Neko for not getting the "obvious reason" for his no-content votepost. #99 finally explains why Serela would be a good policy lynch...for having a bad D1? Criticizes Neko for the same reason of the FoS, 'prods' 2 players. #110 is a call for content and a critique of me answering a question. #157 attempts to discredit Raitaki, myself, Affinity and Serela, as well as validate several of his own points made earlier.
Verdict: Likely scum.
Raitaki:
Pre-game reaction test seems overeager, overall seems to be playing somewhat similarly to myself in hindsight. #49 is a bit of a derpy post, reads noobnull IMO. #60 pure randomvotes during srs phase. Votes BT for a ??? reason in #101. #107 seems like trying to outguess scum, which at that point is not the best method. #118 is waffling and a tentative clear of me based on BT!scum. #122 is a way of backing out of anything later due to "being a horrible judge of character". Nearly gets prodded, then admits to making a mistake on BT.
Verdict: Likely confused town.
Will need words to finish case!post, vote will be there.
-double cut-
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number of people shadoweh doesn't care I think are scummy: omba and ihnn
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Serela:
RVS vote
I don't care how "serious" the posts are, there isn't actually much serious for me to do with them. If you haven't noticed, I've rarely been the questioning type in the first place, and I don't really feel like "seriously" pursuing something that's in actuality nothing. While acting like that is sure to help RVS end quick, I'm not good at faking conviction. If you don't believe me look at the last couple of times I was scum. >.>
Tries to self-meta clear? Also lots of fluffy excuses for not doing anything.
#127 I addressed in my #128, the feel I get from that post is coasting scum-the rest of Serela's posts also feel like trying to coast.
Shadoweh: If you want townreads, mine would be you and Pesco. As for the rest of your complaints, while I disagree with some of them, I also see where you're coming from. :T I generally struggle to get anything done D1, which is why I generally also lurk the hell out of it.
Fluff/excuses/appeasement
Pesco:I should have elaborated on that, in hindsight it does look pretty bad >_> I had already reread the game once or twice, but I couldn't figure out who I wanted to vote out of anyone, which is the only reason I was still going at it more. I stopped afterwords because it seemed pointless to do a third or fourth reread when I hadn't gotten much out of the first couple times, since I had managed to get a scumread.
Fluff/excuses/appeasement
...I just noticed Raitaki is less then an hour away from a prod :/ Considering his BT case is ??? (For being the first to try to "derail the wagon by voting IHNN", which... I'm not sure how this is supposed to be indicative of alignment at all), and being under heavy fire, him suddenly turning towards lurking it up isn't very good. Still reluctant about actually lynching him just off sketchy play because new players are easily capable of all this as town, but, I have to admit it's starting to look sort of... yeah.
/Fluff/re-stating things that have already been said/waffling on Raitaki
Neko:My reasoning looks forced? Eh, Pesco seems to at least agree on the "IHNN doesn't look like he really wants to lynch Raitaki" part according to the post right before this one. :Shrug: IHNN's Raitaki vote post just looks to me like throwaway babble and making up excuses to vote someone he doesn't really think is scum.
Restating things that have already been said/validating own vote despite the reasons for voting me being the reason why I'm being voted (I can't think of a better phrasing but it's hypocritical at best and scummy at worst)
Affinity:See above. It may have been strong ed1, but the way he came back to it looks like he's falling back on the only vote he can justify due to his BT case falling through.
Further validations of the vote on me. I think you're trying to convince yourself that I'm scum knowing I'm not.
Huh. I reread to see what the hubbub was about Omba and most of his posts are null responses about stuff (Which isn't bad in itself, but does mean I was off in thinking "Oh Omba's been posting a lot of stuff" and not really looking at him much in terms of is-this-person-scum etc). Now that I look again, his votes look opportunistic (Serela makes excuse to not do something in rvs, Vote Serela, new guy uses random.org a bit after the point it's acceptable, vote and since he never really does anything great can just coast by on him while throwing in comments here and there, etc), I can see the case on him.
As Shadoweh said, commentating without opinions other than opportunistic Omba votes...which IIRC was already said earlier.
In short, Serela has had no real opinions of his own other than the over-validated vote on me.
Vote: Serela
Would also vote Omba due to case!post part 1.
Oh btw Serela thanks for the words for the case/comments on you :V
number of people shadoweh doesn't care I think are scummy: omba and ihnn
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZkouut-9RQ
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Increasing irritation toward Neko. You dropped your Raitaki vote without actually evaluating his content, so that pretty much was a votepark like I said. How is his play only newb instead of scummy? Right now it seems like you're not bothering to look into his posts beyond the surface even though they actually contain scummy and inconsistent thought processes.
Raitaki himself should have at least formulated basic thoughts on the wagons by now, which for newbtown typically isn't too hard to do on this forum if they have a basic understanding of mafia. Lurking out only to say "Serela is kinda weird" (which is kinda duh) doesn't make me want to move my vote.
I like Shadoweh's "Serela is making excuses for people's actions" point because I find that legit scummy. If a townie can justify another player's actions and proceeds to do so without questioning the player first then there's no point in bringing those actions up. I also agree that him dropping his re-reads isn't a townie effort, the defense doesn't satisfy me because "I couldn't develop scum reads" can be substituted for "I'm scum and can't figure out who to mislynch if not my buddies" pretty easily without making the story sound any less realistic. Also the "PESCO AGREES" line to defend his own case (not Pesco's) is lol. Would support this lynch.
Finally, not seeing the Omba case as is. Seconding Pesco that more back-and-forth between him/Kilga would be nice. Rex, explain this "pattern" that makes Omba look scummy? Given the talk of policy lynches pregame those posts were pretty much what I expected to pop up from at least one person regardless of alignment.
Also nudeposting to make up for the lack of drrawr in this game.
FOUR HUGE CUTS none of it is related to the players I'm addressing so I'm not reading that shit sorry.
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EBWOP: I'm not reading that shit until after I post
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number of people shadoweh doesn't care I think are scummy: omba and ihnn
Can you possibly make a case on them that involves why you think what they're doing is scummy? (the answer to this is no because you're scum).
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I didn't see any problems with NNR, he seems to be playing the same way he always does and they didn't raise any red flags. I didn't disagree with anything Affinity had put down at the time of those tentative clears.
That still doesn't tell me anything. For one, Affinity's posts don't make sense to me, so I can't agree with any of them. What then are YOU agreeing with? I haven't liked NNR's posts since his vote reason seems pretty flimsy, how is that not a problem to you?
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Well it didn't help that in all the games I played D1 lynchings were based on N1 action results and stuff like this (http://www.staredit.net/313385/).
Also. What even is this. Are those all mod-posts giving you subtle clues who the scum are? >_> You win mafia games by solving the mod's riddles?
[edible]FIND THE LEFT HALF OF THE RABBIT AMULET UNDERNEATH THE GIANT ROOK[/edible]
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Also. What even is this. Are those all mod-posts giving you subtle clues who the scum are? >_> You win mafia games by solving the mod's riddles?
(http://i.imgur.com/nXdHt.png)
k4u is confirmed scum
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IHNN Bandwagon: Serela's post doesn't have me convinced at all. He didn't mention IHNN's prior bouncing around trying to scumread, as well as how justified his vote on me was considering my behaviour. BT seems to vote IHNN only because of the reaction to my vote (which has been somewhat explained by IHNN) and the votepark. PX's "he OMGUS -> VOTE" doesn't cut it for me. For my part I'd say IHNN's posts don't strike me as scum and I can see the cause and effect motivation behind many of them, so I wouldn't mark IHNN as scum just yet.
Serela Bandwagon: This bandwagon seems justified, given Serela's stance of appearing to be participating while posting neutral remarks (let's just cut it short and say I mostly agree with the way other players view Serela). His stance seems somewhat like mine so far (with less self-defense of course), so I'm not entirely sure if he's scum or new like me (as I don't know how long he has been playing MotK mafia, and his motivation strikes me to be leaning towards the self-preservation side, but not very active or enthusiastic). ##Tentative FoS
Omba case: Kilga's vote seems justified, as Omba hadn't done any serious scumhunting either, except for pressing a few people some mostly ineffective questions. Aside from that, he/she only hopped on my bandwagon early on, and at that point some might think that I was in a precarious situation with a high probability of being lynched, which I'd say can be seen as an attempt for an easy lynch. Aside from these, there isn't much else to read on.
Because it seems me scumreading based on anything aside from lack of contribution is futile, tentative vote...
*ahem* OMGUS ##Vote Omba
-cut- @Shadoweh: Well, when Mafia was introduced to SEN most of the active members have never played MS Mafia, so mods had to plant clues in modposts to provide something other than action results and slip-ups for lynchers to work with, and because most SEN mafia players never were willing to play Mafia outside that method stuck.
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Shadowert: Case is fine, now that I can sit at home and digest it in full. Agree with it much, in fact. Just blurb at end very shocking inclusion. Notice part of my Omba vote is for fluff. Your lurker talk at end of vote post also fluff as far as I'm concerned. I find fluff scummy, hence questioning. Find your response questionable in its apparent attempt to divert my attention elsewhere. Serela case stays major suspicion, but still not 100% pleased.
Other things: Omba #157 carries air of disrespect for fellow players. No need for town to post like this. Willing to vote Serela should need arise or Omba gets markedly better, Shadoweh case very solid. Also willing to vote NNR, huh what had said things about him I agree with (particularly about NNR pretty much trying to slink away from his Raitalky vote). Also don't like needless antagonistic attitude in #131 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg867186.html#msg867186) as said before (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg867204.html#msg867204). Also also agrees with case on Omba and...cites three posts before the third page as reason? When my case mostly revolved around more recent and relevant (and scummy) things? Really? Lazy lazy lazy. Looks like effortless suspicion toss onto guy whose case was spearheaded by someone most players hold in high regard (if I may :toot: for a moment) so possible attempt to curry favor.
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while reading general MS wiki stuff and the previous game's D1.
Did you read previous games in MotK's archives?
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Yeah, but why does that have to do with anything?
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EBWOP
**what
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regarding Serela I'm not entirely sure if he's scum or new like me (as I don't know how long he has been playing MotK mafia
If you read the archives, you'd have seen Serela has been playing for a very long time - he's been in pretty much all of the recent games, I think. So there's a disconnect here.
Kilga: What does the antagonistic attitude you mentioned tell you about the player's alignment?
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If you read the archives, you'd have seen Serela has been playing for a very long time - he's been in pretty much all of the recent games, I think. So there's a disconnect here.
Every game for the past year, so. But the reason I'm quoting is because I think this is a -really- silly thing to try to paint as some kind of scummy disconnect >.>;
I like how IHNN is apparently complaining that I'm responding to questions people ask me. :T
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If you read the archives, you'd have seen Serela has been playing for a very long time - he's been in pretty much all of the recent games, I think. So there's a disconnect here.
I see. I've only been reading the previous game (how long do you think it takes for a human being trying to learn can read through 35+ pages >_>).
This changes things. ##Unvote
##Vote Serela
In retrospect, I should have put an ##unvote in that long post back there. Derp :V
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I like how IHNN is apparently complaining that I'm responding to questions people ask me. :T
I wrote my impressions of your post, and the conclusions I drew from your posts.
Anyways, dinnertime. Probably be back later. When exactly is deadline?
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I think around 23.5 hours from now?
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Omba: Antagonism and disrespect tells me antagonistic, disrespectful player is scum.
First thing antagonism and disrespect do is cloud judgment. Players get heated heads, are more liable to take things personally, respond to things personally, generally lose focus from task at hand. Good for scum. Townies want clear judgment, scum want clouded judgment.
Second thing is make game unenjoyable. Players get depressed, lose interest and motivation. Stop caring, stop playing. Very bad for town, very good for scum.
Summary: antagonism and disrespect impede town wincon and assist scum wincon, ergo they are scummy, ergo you are scum.
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Clouded jugdement tells me much more about the alignment of the player in question than a calmly composed post ever could.
Quite contrary to what you're saying, playing nice makes it easier for scum to hide and harder to get reads on people. It also eliminates a lot of possible plays from the game. The simpler the game, the easier it is for scum to blend in.
As a side note, ever since Edible told us to play nicely I've been composing my posts as neutrally as possible without cutting out intended meaning. But I'm not about to start lying as town outside of :gambits:.
Serela: Why did you think my point about his disconnect was silly? Verbose explanation, please.
Raitaki, you did say you were reading the D1 of previous games specifically, though. Did you change your mind?
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I never said that I ever finished staring at the first one moved on to the next. So yeah atm I'm still on the previous round. I think instead of reading through multiple D1's I'd just go ahead and analyze the entirety of the previous round, since there's only about a third of D1 left, and I'm going to have to sleep through about 10 hours of it.
I did change my vote, as I no longer consider being new as a possible explanation for Serela's motives and stance. As for changing my mind, I now think Serela is an even more likely scum candidate than before, but your position stays the same. I'm assuming that's what you meant by changing my mind.
One side remark though, you seem quite interested in whether or not I move my vote, even though it used to be both tentative and an OMGUS. Any particular reason? ;o
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> Clouded judgment and illogical thinking are good for town
> People not caring is good for town
Sounds like the time Scum Serpentarius told us all to ignore scumflips when scumhunting.
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Kilga: We both know very well what we're arguing about here, so let's drop this. Because it hasn't told me anything about your alignment and I foresee it won't even if we continue.
If you want to do policy lynches to enforce a particular style of play, feel free to try. You know exactly where I stand on this, I'm not going to regurgitate all the arguments that have been made about this.
Raitaki: Changing your mind referred to changing your mind about only reading the D1 of previous games - the impression I got was that you'd read over them rather quickly to specifically see how D1 is generally handled here.
Yes, I'm interested in when/how/why you change your vote. What you do with your vote is the one thing that tells the most about your alignment in the end. Still wondering why you didn't quickly check whether Serela was a new player or not if it evidently was a big factor in deciding whom you were you going to vote.
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Affinity: I'll give you a few hours to find the flaws in your case on me and produce a better one.
@Omba: That's pithy and smug talk, and decidedly anti-town. Give it to me straight so that we can discuss it or something without dragging out things for half a day.
Rai has given his 'worst case' and analysis on the IHNN bandwagon and related stuff, based on false premises. Your case about him 'not scumhunting' is really no longer valid and seemingly outdated. Your previous questioning (prompted by his mistake on Serela rather than anything he's putting forward), sounds like you are shifting the goalposts on Rai, really.
@Serela: Why is IHNN's late vote on Rai scummy when he could have done so much earlier and more naturally early D1? There were abundant reasons to 'appear strong'.
Affinity:See above. It may have been strong ed1, but the way he came back to it looks like he's falling back on the only vote he can justify due to his BT case falling through.
@Serela: You are not answering my question at all, you're just repeating what you said in the first place... :( Well, I don't get your Rai/IHNN dichotomy at all. If you are clearing the earlier for being new, why not the latter too for being relatively new as well? Townies do fall back on votes they can justify on occasion when their case falls through.
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@mod: Are you actually doing word counts on these posts, because I've seen a few that are definitely breaking the limit
#152 (Serela)
#159 (Shadoweh)
#169 (Raitaki)
(Word Counts done through Google Docs)
[edible]I have been, yes (though mostly eyeballing; I wordcount when it looks close). Keep in mind that text in quotes does not count.[/edible]
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Huh. Pretty sure I copied pasted the whole post raw into Word and it said 349 words. And unless I'm off by 100 words the PR is 350 words right?
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Might be google docs shenanigans, then, if you're counting. Same would go for Shadoweh.
I know for a fact Serela's post is some 400+ words.
Anyways reading through these walls is tough business, I thought some of the walls might have been cutting a little too big :V
Still reading this stuff.
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Little rushed right now. G2g soon so Koromo will post another later tonight.
NNR, don't like for his votepark on Raitaki for half of D1, on top of the reasons why he stayed on him look more like observation and waffling.
Affinity, who is scum and why. And on top of that, WHAT ARE YOUR OPINIONS ON RAITAKI??? You say he's polarizing, but haven't said a word on what you think of him.
Rai actually scumhunting looks better.
IHNN, Komoro will throw him to the side for now. Like to see more interaction from him and Pesco to get a better read on him. And there's other things Koromo would like to press.
Serela, the cases on him do make sense, but Koromo don't see him as scum. Koromo can provide a defense later on, but not now.
Omba, will have to read later to get a conclusion.
##Unvote
Vote: NekoNekoRex
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@PX: Omba, and perhaps BT. And I already said why.
I think of Rai as newbtown putting in effort. I notice that he's prone to going with the flow lately, but how significant that is remains to be seem. Same goes with IHNN, really.
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Affinity: Ok then, here you go.
I agree with Kilga on Omba, actually. Omba's posts are mostly about staying on Rai, while going on side-tangents with other people through questioning which have not shown their real use.
Okay, fine, not Nameless but Rai. Pardon the rhetoric. Compared to people like pesco and huhwhat you seem more kosher about leaving your vote there without questioning him, waiting for him to magically sprout 'good content'. Why is this so?
Raitaki did not post much I could inquire or press him about - the amount of questions I directed at him corresponds to that. If the biggest reason for voting someone is "does not scumhunt", there simply aren't that many things to ask about that would tell me anything more about his alignment. This should be plainly obvious.
As for the things I asked other people - you call them side-tangents. Instead of, say, trying to get something out of other people that I can use to read them. Whenever I saw something I could poke at, I did so. Re-reading my posts now should show you as much.
Now tell me how either of this is scummy. There's also still this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg867243.html#msg867243), you conceding that point notwithstanding.
Lastly, about Raitaki now scumhunting: Where. What he had said about Serela is little more than a repeat of what other people said about him + some waffling in the post where he voted me, which he later conceded once I pointed out to him that Serela was not actually a new player, which he could easily have checked himself if he was already reading in the archives and really as hard-pressed to decide on who he thinks is scum as his posts appear to say.
The same goes for the reasoning for his vote on me, the only part I'm not completely sure hasn't been said before is the "he was an easy lynch at that point" thing. Which is... yeah.
The statements about IHNN are pretty waffly, but I think there might be some original thought in there - but if there is, none of it translates into any reads.
So no, still doesn't cut it as actual scumhunting.
To be sure, if he wasn't there I'd be voting Serela, but he is, so I'm not.
--cut cut
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Finally, not seeing the Omba case as is. Seconding Pesco that more back-and-forth between him/Kilga would be nice. Rex, explain this "pattern" that makes Omba look scummy? Given the talk of policy lynches pregame those posts were pretty much what I expected to pop up from at least one person regardless of alignment.
It was the policy lynch talk. He seemed real bent on it, especially when he kept pinning random players as "policy lynchable". It's not my main reason, but it is one.
Kilga's 179 sums up my reasons handily.
Posts like Omba's 157 are overly combative an jump on every little thing to make a big deal out of it. Stuff like this:
Serela's posts show exactly what I meant with the waffling yet to come.
is setting people up for failure so he can jump on it.
Raitaki is improving his play from "completely worthless" to "making decent effort to scumhunt" which at least shows some town intent. His posts look like a struggling newb instead of totalnewbtown and I find it argh that I can't change my read on him without people endlessly questioning it.
Also don't like needless antagonistic attitude in #131
Looking back I noticed he isn't actually trying to justify his own post rather then defend PX, so is it okay if I take that statement I made earlier about it back? I was more annoyed with the blatant lack of :words: then anything else.
inb4 appeasment
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If Omba feels the need to press the point that I didn't take the effort to check the archives to see if Serela was new or not, I'm going to say as I typed the post I was reading up all the posts people made to justify their votes as well as what the victim posted to possibly deserve the vote while keeping track of votes while trying to rate the posters, all at the same time. This repeated shift in the object of my attention made it really hard to focus on anything at all, so I forgot to consider checking the archives. Also I wasn't hard-pressed to determine whether Serela was a likely scum at the moment, as I literally still had a whole day to think about it and by that point I've already narrowed my sight to the two of you.
As for your questioning of people, while admittedly I was barely posting and gave anyone little to work with, your questions to other players didn't yield any significant results either, except for the ones you made as replies to people complaining about you. Actually, if I just read all your questions without knowing the context, it'd sound like you're only asking people to elaborate their points.
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he kept pinning random players as "policy lynchable".
Unless my memory is completely borked, I named exactly two players as policy lynches - Raitaki and Serela. Now tell me how this is random.
Stuff like this:[...]is setting people up for failure so he can jump on it.
"Serela is going to waffle" is a statement with a very high chance of being true. What about this tells you that I'm scum?
Raitaki is improving his play from "completely worthless" to "making decent effort to scumhunt" which at least shows some town intent. His posts look like a struggling newb instead of totalnewbtown and I find it argh that I can't change my read on him without people endlessly questioning it.
Twitch
--cut No, actually they did. A significant part of them went nowhere and some of the results I got aren't noted in my posts. Nevertheless, you'll find that some of them did yield something - and that was the whole purpose of asking. Doesn't matter if part of the questions ends up being useless as long as part of them nets something useful.
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Vote Count: DAIJI NA MEMORY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqT0iFZifgw) edition
Serela (4): NekoNekoRex, Shadoweh, IHNN, Raitaki
Raitaki (3): huh what, Omba, Pesco
IHNN (2): BT, Serela
Omba (2): Kilgamayan, Affinity
NekoNekoRex (1): PX
Not voting: Nobody!
You have ~21 hours remaining. With 12 in play, it takes 7 votes to launch.
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"Serela is going to waffle" is a statement with a very high chance of being true. What about this tells you that I'm scum?
It means you're using meta as a reason to make her look bad before he even uses said meta. You're lining it up.
Poor defense only makes you look worse, and you're cherry picking my arguments while hoping nobody notices my primary reason for suspecting you is your aggressive and disrespectiful play.
--cut No, actually they did. A significant part of them went nowhere and some of the results I got aren't noted in my posts. Nevertheless, you'll find that some of them did yield something - and that was the whole purpose of asking. Doesn't matter if part of the questions ends up being useless as long as part of them nets something useful.
So basically you're shooting until something sticks? Isn't that a scumtell?
Very tempted to switch off Serela right now. Both players look very poor in terms of reads for me.
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It means you're using meta as a reason to make her look bad before he even uses said meta. You're lining it up.
Why yes, I was expecting Serela would waffle and that I'd probably still want to vote him once he starts the waffles, after he already made an abject refusal to participate in ED1. Still doesn't tell me why you think that's scummy.
Poor defense only makes you look worse, and you're cherry picking my arguments while hoping nobody notices my primary reason for suspecting you is your aggressive and disrespectiful play.
I find it hard to keep this up, but... let me get this straight. You got modkilled for not playing nice last game, you also got called out for the same this game. Last game you were town. And you're now suspecting me because... I'm not nice? Disconnect if I ever saw one.
And hey, I just did a quick re-read - you know where you picked up the "is overly combative" point? In your #191 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg867628.html#msg867628), long after Kilga started going down that road and also long after your first major voicing of suspicion regarding me in your #151 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg867493.html#msg867493). Where I don't see a single word about me being aggressive as a scumtell. Uh...
Yes, that FoS on you was completely justified. Needs rope.
So basically you're shooting until something sticks? Isn't that a scumtell?
It's a scumtell if you're either flinging -accusations- or painting responses as scummy that actually aren't. Show me where I did either.
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Yeah what the hell NNR.
@Omba: You are not taking the effort to differentiate newbtown and newbscum, both of which might conceivably not be able to 'scumhunt correctly'. For example, this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg867110.html#msg867110) shows scumhunting intent and logic being used, and despite it not being 'correct', it warrants some investigation which you did not go into.
Rai's choice to think of IHNN as town and Serela and you as scum is already a decision that people will read him by on future days, which constitutes as some form of scumhunting despite it not being solid or anything.
I find it hard to believe that you would be blind to all of the above. You deciding to question Rai solely on his mistake in assuming Serela as new and not his failings at scumhunting (which you posted much later, not directed at him) already tell me that your priorities are not straight. Same goes for your questioning on others and not your primary scumreads.
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Why yes, I was expecting Serela would waffle and that I'd probably still want to vote him once he starts the waffles, after he already made an abject refusal to participate in ED1. Still doesn't tell me why you think that's scummy.
Because you're trying to paint him as scummy without him actually doing anything.
I find it hard to keep this up, but... let me get this straight. You got modkilled for not playing nice last game, you also got called out for the same this game. Last game you were town. And you're now suspecting me because... I'm not nice? Disconnect if I ever saw one.
Hold up there cowboy, don't try to go down that road invalidating my points because I got modkilled last game. Antagonizing a player =/= combative and disrespectful.
And hey, I just did a quick re-read - you know where you picked up the "is overly combative" point? In your #191, long after Kilga started going down that road and also long after your first major voicing of suspicion regarding me in your #151. Where I don't see a single word about me being aggressive as a scumtell. Uh...
Let me sum it up in more simple terms
The tone of your posts is very negative and reactionary, which is scummy, therefore I think you are scum.
Show me where I did either.
#157
--cut
Yeah what the hell NNR.
???
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You are not taking the effort to differentiate newbtown and newbscum
That's actually precisely it. I'm completely foregoing any sort of clears for D1, be it meta, newbie or anything else. I said as much pre-game and I'm following through on it. If it reads as scum unless I say it's not because the player is ___, then it -is- scum.
I suppose I'll have to concede that I did not question him about every point I could have.
--cut by Neko
That doesn't even warrant a response.
Oh, except one. Which parts of #157 qualifies as being scummy? Tell me straight out.
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It strikes me as interesting that you immediately asked me if I read the archives after seeing the disconnection in my long post, but you never bothered to try to ask me about my skill level at mafia, which I never claimed to be high, then using the fact that I quoted 2 mafia games I participated in to at least twice say that I'm not new to Mafia games and should engage in scumhunt (which you didn't do a really good job at either, especially at that), what with my pregame stunt and all.
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Raitaki: Considering you're not a new mafia player, I'm hard pressed to believe you're completely unable to do any scumhunting. Promises to do it at some later point do not cut it. Among other things, you're currently getting voted for not contributing anything useful. Even the worst case you can make is better than none at all. I will not listen to your excuses.
Discouraging, unhelpful, contributes little other then to say "you're bad, try harder"
Affinity: I'll give you a few hours to find the flaws in your case on me and produce a better one. As it stands, I'm inclined to believe you wanted to follow Kilga's vote on me and needed to find any sort of original reasoning to justify your own vote so you don't look like you're just sheeping him.
Passive-agressive, basically says "you're bad but it's up to you to figure out why"
Serela's posts show exactly what I meant with the waffling yet to come.
I already went over this
--cut by Neko
That doesn't even warrant a response.
Out of ammo or are you trying to pick a fight?
Just because I have a card doesn't mean you're allowed to hold it over my head and paint me as a hypocrite every time I want to vote a player for negative post tones. I'm making an effort to play nice, I even went back on my 131 after I realized I was wrong about it.
I think I'm going to reread what's down on Serela and then I'll decide if I'm going to switch to Omba based on this 1v1
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##Unvote
##Vote NNR
Too much fluff. Post later.
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##Unvote
Raitaki's wagon is falling apart and his recent scumhunting has been dynamic enough to be satisfying. Would like to know where this content was earlier in the day, however, since stuff like his vote on Omba was possible with the amount of posts he had to work with previously.
I'm still uninterested @Ombawagon even after the back-and-forth, it reads to me more like Kilga is frustrated with Omba because :character:. I didn't take Omba's #180 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg867591.html#msg867591) as "Clouded judgment and illogical thinking are good for town" or "People not caring is good for town", just "Emotional posts made under clouded judgment are easier to read". Also, Affinity claiming Omba isn't taking the effort to differentiate between newbtown and newbscum seems questionable - how does that apply to Omba more than the rest of the Raitaki wagon? Still believe IHNN is more silly than scummy, so wouldn't prefer that either.
##Vote: NekoNekoRex (L-4)
Dude has spent most of his time sniping other players while voteparking. Rex, if Omba looked bad to you early on for the Raitaki vote, and looked bad to you later in hindsight, why's your vote been on Serela this whole time? Seems opportunistic given that you haven't followed your Serela stance up with anything. Additionally,
Discouraging, unhelpful, contributes little other then to say "you're bad, try harder"
How was this worse than your Raitaki vote, which was the same sort of "try harder" prodvote? You also referred to Raitaki's ED1 as "completely worthless". Given how much focus you've put on how bad Raitaki attacks look, it seems like your Raitaki vote wasn't something you actually believed in. I'm not saying it looks bad that you changed your read, it looks like you never had the initial read in the first place.
Also, when Raitaki improved himself to you, why did you immediately go for the rising wagon instead of attempting to re-read Omba and PX before voting, when they both previously irked you?
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Or HW can just post for me. I'm also disliking NNR's Appeal to Victim(?) as a defense against Omba.
My reread of Omba gets a few things from early (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg866860.html#msg866860) on (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg867033.html#msg867033) that I agree with. Where next for Omba now that Raitaki is picking up the game?
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##Unvote
Raitaki's wagon is falling apart and his recent scumhunting has been dynamic enough to be satisfying. Would like to know where this content was earlier in the day, however, since stuff like his vote on Omba was possible with the amount of posts he had to work with previously.
This kind of language sounds really odd from you. It's the kind of parsing I would expect Affinity to write. What do you mean by 'dynamic enough to be satisfying'? I also dislike how you use the vote on NNR to sidestep commenting on Serela. At all. He's a p. big wagon right now but you give an opinion on everyone but? Earlier you said you agreed with the case on him but right now it looks like you wouldn't touch it.
Pesco blanket agreeing with something that sounds so weird is also off. Pesco, what you've managed to point out in those links is that Omba vs NNR is an emotional slapfight that's been going on since ED1.
On the topic of voteparking, BT has been sitting on his vote since ED1 on IHNN. (Actually he hasn't posted for awhile). His original reason for voting hasn't been valid since IHNN changed his vote, but there's been no follow up with his opinions. He has one more scum suspect then Serela, that is, one. Since the IHNN wagon doesn't look like it's going anywhere I find his silence both for pushing his suspect or finding a new one extremely suspicious and expect him to have something for us soon. (I can see you around dragon boy.)
I think I'm going to reread what's down on Serela and then I'll decide if I'm going to switch to Omba based on this 1v1
THERE ARE NO 1 VS 1'S GOING ON HERE. YOU SIT YOUR ASS DOWN AND STAY ON THIS WAGON OR I SWEAR TO GOD I WILL TURN THIS CAR AROUND. You are like a pair of kids slapfighting in the backseat going I'm not touching you I'm not touching you! Voting based on emotion is the antithesis to playing mafia.
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I warned I'll be busy, Shadoweh. Thankfully weekend is now.
Vote stays on IHNN. Handwaving play as silly needs to stop.
Will elaborate on my point in #149: gut stances are throwaways and vote on Rai was waffle. Then he pleads confusion with no effort to improve, instead agreeing with cases because he admittedly couldn't make them.
Town acknowledge their faults and work to do their best regardless.
Scum acknowledge their faults and let them be known so that everyone else can do the same.
Recent cases seal the deal. Case on Serela is a restatement of Shadoweh's and case on Omba in particular is a collection and something he could have done earlier (proving my point that he wasn't trying). Recent switch to Serela is bad considering he gutted him as town in #128. Smells like jump.
Who is this guy with the solid stance you're referring to? Serela can't agree on his feelings for the person he's voting for in the same post.
Vote on IHNN was a solid stance. Not ideal execution, waffle on everything else in the world, but seems like he's trying (and failing). Not sold his scummy is scum, sold on IHNN more.
I think his thoughts follow a natural progression. Where do I go from here -----> Looking over people and what you think of them ----> Vote person you still find suspicious.
Was this referring to his switch to Rai? <_< In which case he literally voted him off of PoE.
NNR needs further reading. Still uninterested in Omba lynch.
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Was this referring to his switch to Rai? <_< In which case he literally voted him off of PoE.
Yeah, that's what I was referring to. He was PoEing people he might have found suspicious. Regardless, I don't think you can get an IHNN wagon off the ground again at this point. Your argument is that he was claiming to be confused and acknowledging cases he thought were good and that's scummy. I think it would be scummier if he just pretended they never happened, which wouldn't have left him 'looking weak' in the first place. What do you mean by the case on Omba being something he could have done earlier though?
Vote on IHNN was a solid stance. Not ideal execution, waffle on everything else in the world, but seems like he's trying (and failing). Not sold his scummy is scum, sold on IHNN more.
No it wasn't. He literally says he thinks IHNN isn't votable earlier in the same post. Serela hasn't made a solid stance in a single post he's made. And instead of ramping up his activity trying to post more to figure these people out he's going for a tactical Serela Day 1 Lurk It Out (TM).
Look, if your main reason for not wanting to look at Serela is because your suspect is voting him (and this goes out to everyone), remember two things. One, you don't know your suspects alignment yet. You could be calling a wagon of 3-4 bonafide townies riding on scum the scummiest thing you've ever seen. Two, scum are the best at catching other scum and Serela is like a scum pony, everyone wants a ride. Maybe they thought their buddy was doomed with all the support he was getting and wanted in on the early cred. Either way, judge based on the person, not just on who's attacking them. And then vote for Serela so we can bring this baby home. Shadoweh wants a scum lunch.
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Your argument is that he was claiming to be confused and acknowledging cases he thought were good and that's scummy. I think it would be scummier if he just pretended they never happened, which wouldn't have left him 'looking weak' in the first place.
My argument is that he was (arguably still is) essentially active lurking by contributing nothing, and "that's okay because he's always like that". I'll be damned if the vote on Rai wasn't a premature jump. In fact, all his votes were easy in one way or another, and his opinions have been nonexistent / easily swayed (which is often a result of them never being authentic).
What do you mean by the case on Omba being something he could have done earlier though?
The following:
There's something funny about Omba though in general I find myself agreeing.
*sigh*
and again, more experienced players come in and put into words what I'm thinking far more eloquently/convincingly than I've been able to.
Kilga's post pretty much exactly sums it up, with more words and more reasons than I would have.
Omba:
<stuff that existed during the former post was made>
Verdict: Likely scum.
No it wasn't. He literally says he thinks IHNN isn't votable earlier in the same post. Serela hasn't made a solid stance in a single post he's made.
Oh, that's why. I read his post as "don't wanna lynch IHNN, oh wait this post changes my mind, now I want him dead".
Look, if your main reason for not wanting to look at Serela is because your suspect is voting him (and this goes out to everyone), remember two things. One, you don't know your suspects alignment yet. You could be calling a wagon of 3-4 bonafide townies riding on scum the scummiest thing you've ever seen. Two, scum are the best at catching other scum and Serela is like a scum pony, everyone wants a ride. Maybe they thought their buddy was doomed with all the support he was getting and wanted in on the early cred. Either way, judge based on the person, not just on who's attacking them. And then vote for Serela so we can bring this baby home. Shadoweh wants a scum lunch.
I'm the one that called people out for clearing people because their scumread is voting them in #123. :V Scum/Scum is actually a possibility I'm considering plenty. Both would be seen by scum as meaningful (and easy) wagons at time of voting (Serela on IHNN, IHNN on Serela). Notice that I never said I disagree with Serela's lynch; IHNN's jump could easily be a bus, also considering the inconsistency. I guess I just prefer IHNN if it happens that one of them are town.
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@huhwhat:
pesco's questioning of Rai was on the ball regarding his scumhunting and elicited useful responses from him. If I remember right you made a judgement on the newbtown/scum thing here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg867541.html#msg867541), and you acknowledged Rai's improving content.
Omba seems rather fixated on him however, and his questions have been more of pointing out mistakes (e.g Serela not being a new player), rather than trying to get a better idea of his views on wagons and such.
===
Tentatively, I would like to say that I prefer the Serela wagon to Rai's and IHNN's; I pretty much agree with the many points against him in general, and I don't think his response to my line of questioning is very impressive. His IHNN and Omba suspicions do indeed look insincere.
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Erg, NekoRex as a D1 wagon was inevitable as always, I suppose.
Dude has spent most of his time sniping other players while voteparking. Rex, if Omba looked bad to you early on for the Raitaki vote, and looked bad to you later in hindsight, why's your vote been on Serela this whole time? Seems opportunistic given that you haven't followed your Serela stance up with anything. Additionally,
I've had a reason for this! Serela hasn't contributed anything recently, and it's a fallacy that I should vote Omba for having more recent and scummy content.
How was this worse than your Raitaki vote, which was the same sort of "try harder" prodvote? You also referred to Raitaki's ED1 as "completely worthless".
I throw around a LOT of hyperboles, okay? Also my posts towards Raitaki have been constructive, while Omba's comment was just plain negative.
Also, when Raitaki improved himself to you, why did you immediately go for the rising wagon instead of attempting to re-read Omba and PX before voting, when they both previously irked you?
I don't have a problem with PX at the moment? Omba's aggression wasn't clear until later on. Also you may notice I was the first one to vote Serela. His wagon started with me.
Would I really switch off my own wagon so easily?
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Doesn't change the fact that both your Raitaki and Serela votes are flimsy.
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Doesn't change the fact that both your Raitaki and Serela votes are flimsy.
Raitaki was an Early Day 1 vote, of course it's flimsy.
I think Serela is opportunistic scum jumping on IHNN's wagon and trying to cover and defend herself with walls of fluff, and furthermore I agree with Shadoweh's writeup(s) on Serela.
My Serela vote looks flimsy because Serela has only posted a few large text walls today, and not had a very active participation in the rest of the thread affairs.
This is the same fallacies that were complained about pregame, with people only wanting to lynch active folks.
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Vote Count: SHOPPING (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhX_YmV2cKk) edition
Serela (4): NekoNekoRex, Shadoweh, IHNN, Raitaki
NekoNekoRex (3): PX, Pesco, huh what
IHNN (2): BT, Serela
Omba (2): Kilgamayan, Affinity
Raitaki (1): Omba
Not voting: Nobody!
You have ~6 hours remaining. With 12 in play, it takes 7 votes to launch.
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Don't know about the NNR case yet. Agree that Neko's been sniping on various people through D1, however to me at least this line of action reads null. Also this Omba-Neko tennis match needs to stop. IMO it's distracting Neko from scumhunting other people, and makes a lot of Omba's post just retaliations at NNR's posts :\ This activity surely isn't making either player more productive.
There is only around 6 hours remaining, I suggest Omba, BT and Serela drop their current votes (@BT: It's pointless to keep your vote their atm, the case on IHNN is dying and Serela certainly isn't helping) and choose one of the current bandwagons to go with. Unless we flip scum there'd be at least 2 deaths a night due to lack of protective roles, so NLs won't do.
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Unless we flip scum there'd be at least 2 deaths a night due to lack of protective roles, so NLs won't do.
4) Don't bully No Lynch-chan. Voting to No Lynch is not allowed, and a majority MUST be reached by the end of each day or Rocks Fall And You Will Die.
There'd only be 1 death per night though, the scum faction as a whole gets 1 NK.
I'm here for now but will be away for an hour soon. I'll be around for deadline though.
I can see where the case on Neko is coming from and the steps taken to reach it, but I don't entirely agree with it, Neko seems sincere in his opinions and seems to be trying. I don't have time to take a closer look right now but that's my opinion on it at a glance.
Handwaving play as silly needs to stop.
:ohdear:
The following:
Quote from: I have no name on August 01, 2012, 04:58:50 pm
There's something funny about Omba though in general I find myself agreeing. Scum can be right about stuff and at the time something felt off
Quote from: I have no name on August 01, 2012, 10:29:11 pm
*sigh*
and again, more experienced players come in and put into words what I'm thinking far more eloquently/convincingly than I've been able to. This holds despite the EBWOP due to my inexperience at writing casewalls
Kilga's post pretty much exactly sums it up, with more words and more reasons than I would have.
Quote from: I have no name on August 02, 2012, 04:34:51 pm
Omba:
<stuff that existed during the former post was made>
Verdict: Likely scum. Opinion changing is scummy? Being away then coming to the same conclusions as several others is scummy?
EBWOP to the bolded part: before having to go to bed for the night.
Additionally, the first and last posts of those 3 are separated by 24 hours; you expect me to have the same opinions on everyone 24 hours later? Most of my opinions didn't change, so IMO seizing on the only tentative town read that I later thought was scum is scummy.
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I want to reactionvote Raitaki for claiming there'd be 2 deaths.
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That's fine.
If I may though, I blame SEN mafia :P
Half jokes aside, I'll reiterate the point that we should start deciding between the current top 3 wagons unless someone brings a case strong enough to convince people to quicklynch someone else. Atm the minor cases aren't getting much attention, so votes on those are about as likely to get a lynch as voteparks.
I myself is torn between Omba and Serela. Unless convinced otherwise I'd support a lynch on those two over the others.
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I want to reactionvote Raitaki for claiming there'd be 2 deaths.
But we're in an open setup with no vigilantes...
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But we're in an open setup with no vigilantes...
Think it's time for clarity. When I read the MS wiki, the part where they said all scum can use the factional nk made me misunderstand that each can nk once.
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Don't know about the NNR case yet. Agree that Neko's been sniping on various people through D1, however to me at least this line of action reads null. Also this Omba-Neko tennis match needs to stop. IMO it's distracting Neko from scumhunting other people, and makes a lot of Omba's post just retaliations at NNR's posts :\ This activity surely isn't making either player more productive.
I myself is torn between Omba and Serela. Unless convinced otherwise I'd support a lynch on those two over the others.
Soft dissuading from a NNR lynch makes me want to stay on it even more.
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I don't think Raitaki has improved that much. Would still be up for lynching him.
That said, Neko and Serela both read as scum. As much as it pains me not go through with the lurker policy lynch I wanted, Neko needs the rope more than Serela.
There've simply been too many inconsistencies in his cases, starting with his one on Raitaki. I find it very hard to believe that what he's posting is the result of actually trying to find scum.
##Unvote
##Vote NekoNekoRex
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This kind of language sounds really odd from you. It's the kind of parsing I would expect Affinity to write. What do you mean by 'dynamic enough to be satisfying'? I also dislike how you use the vote on NNR to sidestep commenting on Serela. At all. He's a p. big wagon right now but you give an opinion on everyone but? Earlier you said you agreed with the case on him but right now it looks like you wouldn't touch it.
Right now it looks like he's actually trying and has insight. I still find his early-day play scummy and would like him explain why it took him so long to come up with anything good like I said (he pretty much ignored my unvoting paragraph), but more pressing matters etc. He was starting to look better and keeping my vote down on him wasn't going to do much with the wagon crumbling.
I only have so many words. I didn't express disapproval with the Serela lynch, so I'm still fine wth it but think Rex is more likely to flip scum. Would switch to Serela for deadline though.
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I don't think Raitaki has improved that much. Would still be up for lynching him.
That said, Neko and Serela both read as scum. As much as it pains me not go through with the lurker policy lynch I wanted, Neko needs the rope more than Serela.
There've simply been too many inconsistencies in his cases, starting with his one on Raitaki. I find it very hard to believe that what he's posting is the result of actually trying to find scum.
##Unvote
##Vote NekoNekoRex
Care to point out any inconsistencies besides my ED1 vote?
I find it hard to believe the major case on me here is that I'm waffling on a vote on a newbie that I put down in the middle of RVS. This is Angel Beats D1 levels of bad.
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IHNN. That part of my post accused you of waiting on writing an Omba case. Nothing else. Why are you accusing me of accusing you of changing reads when I did nothing of the sort?
Raitaki: Fair enough. I fully expect everyone to take a good look at IHNN's game today.
##Unvote
##Vote Serela (L-2)
The only things I find crooked about NNR- I already mentioned, nothing else screams at me after several rereads. Would lynch Serela over NNR, would lynch NNR over Omba.
cuts. Omba, what inconsistencies? I'm rather satisfied with how NNR explained his Raitaki vote era.
more cuts
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@HW: I was struggling and you said I should at least comment on the wagons, so I decided to that instead, as that doesn't require as much scumhunting as...pure scumhunting. At that point I decided I wasn't going very far with trying to outguess scum intents etc so I decided to just scumread based on motivation and weight of contributed content.
-cuts-
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I've had a reason for this! Serela hasn't contributed anything recently, and it's a fallacy that I should vote Omba for having more recent and scummy content
Why is Serela scummier than Omba from your point of view, though? Your case on Serela was basically a couple of buzzwords - "looks forced" and "backed up with fluff" doesn't cite specific examples.
I don't have a problem with PX at the moment? Omba's aggression wasn't clear until later on. Also you may notice I was the first one to vote Serela. His wagon started with me.
The point was more that Serela's post was pretty bad and likely to gain him some votes for being Serela. I'm not asking about your current reads - why did you not give a fuck about PX and Omba when you went to vote Serela?
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I want to shoot Pesco with my vigilante kill for trying to throw suspicion on the newbie for thinking there'd be two kills at night but that doesn't seem to be happening either.
HEY SERELA YOU GOT TWO HOURS LEFT HERE'S YOUR CHANCE TO CLAIM WATCHER VOYEUR!That said, Neko and Serela both read as scum. As much as it pains me not go through with the lurker policy lynch I wanted, Neko needs the rope more than Serela.
Then do it because he's a scummy guy doing some scummy stuff. The reason you're voting for Neko applies to Serela as soon as I do this:
There've simply been too many inconsistencies in his cases, starting with his one on Raitaki. I find it very hard to believe that what he's posting is the result of actually trying to find scum.
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Have no problem with either Serela lynch or NNR lynch should I not get Omba lynch, find them both scummy as previously stated. Will not support Raitaki lynch should he become a numerically viable candidate.
Not having had chance to do more than skim-read developments since I left for work, head slightly prefers a Serela lynch to an NNR lynch due to recalled differences in effort.
Cut by 4 posts, reading now, but break almost over.
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IHNN. That part of my post accused you of waiting on writing an Omba case. Nothing else. Why are you accusing me of accusing you of changing reads when I did nothing of the sort?
Because I misunderstood.
Writing a case takes time, time that I didn't really have until I wrote it.
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Why is Serela scummier than Omba from your point of view, though? Your case on Serela was basically a couple of buzzwords - "looks forced" and "backed up with fluff" doesn't cite specific examples.
Already mentioned this. Serela's vote on IHNN looked like a cheap wagon hop that wasn't backed up by very much evidence. It stuck out because it was a late vote in the wagon and the post wasn't very convincingly written, like scum trying to make a cheap excuse to add momentum to the wagon.
IHNN is posting a bunch, and it feels like he's at least trying, even if it's coming out sort of weird, so I'm not interested in him as a D1 lynch.
Serela says this, but then goes back to waffle on it with a subpar reason.He goes through all that only for him to chicken out and go back to voting Raitaki. Okay, well, I guess he never -was- voting Raitaki, but it almost feels like he has been, considering how he's been talking about him during the day so far. IHNN's BT vote only felt like an afterthought given the amount of attention he gave it in his post compared to everything else, and he was easily talked out of it. He barely even sounds convinced in his Raitaki vote, saying "Well he looks worse in hindsight" and moreso in "...but he's using logic! But logic is null, soooooo..."
I basically read this as "I'm voting IHNN because his posts sound like he doesn't care". It's not convincing and doesn't explain very well why IHNN is scummy.
The point was more that Serela's post was pretty bad and likely to gain him some votes for being Serela. I'm not asking about your current reads - why did you not give a fuck about PX and Omba when you went to vote Serela?
BREAKING NEWS
Player rereads game, gets different opinions
Story at 3
I called out PX early in the day (again, middle of RVS) but I didn't see anything else about him that stuck out since then. Not a reason to switch votes.
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Serela, question. You said that IHNN looked like he was trying right before you got cut by him, and that was your justification for not originally supporting his lynch. Why did this cut suddenly make it look like he wasn't trying?
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Care to point out any inconsistencies besides my ED1 vote?
The way you spent many words to point out what was -not- a reason for your vote on Raitaki is a big point.
But the most egregious example by far is your main point in the case on me.
You stated in #201 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg867678.html#msg867678) that you're making an effort to play nice.
This means you need to consciously word your posts to read nicely - i.e. you aren't nice. Let's be perfectly clear here for a moment. If Edible wasn't there holding this huge modhammer over our heads, we'd be flaming each other into oblivion right about now. I know that. You know that.
But yet, you openly stated that your main reason for thinking me scum is that I read as aggressive and disrespectful. Nevermind the modkill last game - if you were town this game, you would -know- that you yourself as town aren't a nice player and need to make an effort to fake it. There's simply no way you can go from there to confidently stating that someone else who's not so nice, too, has to be scum because of it.
tl;dr you're an ass, I'm an ass, thinking I'm scum because I'm an ass doesn't make sense if you're town.
BT: Re-read the reasoning Neko gave for voting Raitaki at that point. It's long-winded and contains more about what's -not- included in his case than what is. Overspecification in that way is a clear sign he didn't actually believe in the case at the time he was voting him.
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Blargh I have to go somewhere really soon. Trying to make an actual post in the time I've got.
First off, obligatory not-me-over-me for obvious reasons.
##Unvote ##Vote NekoNekoRex
TBH I don't really think Neko is scum, but obv would prefer it over self, and I haven't had time to really look at his more recent stuff in-depth either. Agree that Raitaki looks a lot better now, still think IHNN/Omba are scummy, etc. Ahhhh what else is there. I can't think of anything other then case elaborations that I don't have time to reread and make. Will be back in time for deadline and able to claim then if needed, etc. If you ask me questions before then I'll totally answer them and stuff too!
Oh look, there's one now. HW:Because he went and voted Raitaki for reasons that felt empty and lazy, and it felt like a sudden big step backwards to me.
Actually, in hindsight, I'm not quite sure how I still feel about IHNN after his more recent stuff, but I haven't had time today to actually read it; it's been one of my rare busy days so I'm really falling behind on this game right now.
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Serela this is now ad-libs fill in the blank.
"I claim that I am a _____."
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We only have about an hour and a half. Claiming now seems like a good idea.
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Now it'd be easier for everyone if those last 2 posts were made before Serela claimed to going out :P
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EBWOP
**'d be would have been
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Vote Count: quack (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WL-8x_1MJpU) edition
Serela (5): NekoNekoRex, Shadoweh, IHNN, Raitaki, BT
NekoNekoRex (5): PX, Pesco, huh what, Omba, Serela
Omba (2): Kilgamayan, Affinity
Not voting: Nobody!
You have ~3.5 hours remaining. With 12 in play, it takes 7 votes to launch.
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Unfortunately I am not a psychic. I believe I made my wish for Serela to claim already quite clear. If he doesn't think it's important, he can also feel free to die.
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Shadoweh. Do you still think the Neko thing is just a slapfight between the two of us based on :rage:?
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Nevermind, I forgot how to count hours.
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Pretty much. It used to be a common thing that the lynch would be between two townies that tunneled on each other, with people picking sides and throwing off the loser. Although I can't exactly read your alignments from it I do think raeg is a bad reason to have wagons going on between you.
I'm pretty sure the time changed somehow. Like the magic of ABGoM >:<
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Interesting. In response to Pesco earlier stating that he found things in my earlier posts he agreed with, you said you only saw the slapfight. I invite you to take another look, because there are reasons there that clearly -aren't- a part of what you think is just a slapfight.
Besides, if I was going to lynch the player that pissed me off the most, I'd be going after someone else entirely. Seriously, read over his "Omba is scum because he's not being nice" again and tell me that makes logical sense. Tell me that is his him actually trying to find the player he thinks is most likely to be scum.
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First of all let me address this major point I'd like to bring up
This means you need to consciously word your posts to read nicely - i.e. you aren't nice. Let's be perfectly clear here for a moment. If Edible wasn't there holding this huge modhammer over our heads, we'd be flaming each other into oblivion right about now. I know that. You know that.
you aren't nice.
All of my rage. All of my rage, Omba.
I'm doing my darnedest here not to be a complete fucking asshole, and you're just crushing me beneath your boot about it. I don't try to be a gigantic, flaming jerk when I play Mafia or do anything else. Sometimes my posts come off more inflammatory then I would like, but I always try to step back and apologize when I realize it's crossing the line. I don't appreciate you bringing it back up every time I try to bury the hatchet.
Calling my efforts to not make my fate the same as last game a sham or scum gambit is way below the belt. You're going too far.
Second of all I claim Sukusuku Hakutaku (http://i.imgur.com/bpBNz.jpg), Praline Town (which I take means Vanilla)
Due to my role flavor (Sukusuku is Keine, a were-hakutaku) I suspect I might be the Innocent Child.
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*blinks*
Either I was wrong to not expect Edible to put a lot of variance into our PMs and his/her modposts, or that claim looks very, very off to me.
Are you sure you posted everything? Goal, alignment, correct picture linked (instead of one you googled to demonstrate what the name of your role meant assuming you did that), correct font color, everything?
[edible]A word of warning since you're new - quoting a role PM or asking someone to quote a role PM is punishable by modkill.[/edible]
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I'm town, that picture is from the PM, I win when all the Mafia are defeated, etc
Obviously I can't quote it or else I'd be modkilled.
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Neko: If that came off as insulting, that was not intended. I know I don't actually give a shit about how anyone feels because of things I say, but word my posts in as neutral a way as possible because that's the rule Edible made. The point is: If you need to make an effort to not read like an ass in what you post, then you -know- that being an ass can't be a scumtell.
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That's not entirely true. I said that he'd proved you two had started a feud as early as the posts he'd pointed out. It seems natural to me that after the first two wagons (IHNN and Raitaki) were losing speed, attention was drawn to your argument and taking sides on it. My current theory is that as the running counterwagon to scum Neko is likely town so..
oh my god that is the cutest thing ever eeeeeeee
Calm down there kitty. Even I have to admit lines like 'All of my rage' sound fake. But you have to realize trust comes from actions, you can't just tell us you're trying not to be an asshole and hold it over us like you're doing us a favor. That's how it comes across from your tone. It only makes people more likely to be mad at you for being condescending. Less talk about how much of a douche Omba is and more talk about who's the scumteam. Come sing sweet songs into the air about how we're on scum today.
And I doubt Edible would be that obvious with the flavor.
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Even I have to admit lines like 'All of my rage' sound fake.
Well it was originally was going to be "Fuck you" but I decided that was against my better judgment
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>.> Well that does sound more like you, yes.
Are you sure you posted everything? Goal, alignment, correct picture linked (instead of one you googled to demonstrate what the name of your role meant assuming you did that), correct font color, everything?
Also jesus christ you guys directly quote your role pm's too, don't you? Does the mod leave you secret codes in your roles that people can put together to decrypt all the scum names too? Edible, If the five VT's use their powers combined does it form Captain Planet?
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Then your claim is highly suspect. Judging from some of his modposts and modedits, it's fairly obvious that this Mafia game is centered around cats. All pictures I've seen Edible post in relation to this game (including my role PM) are real photos of cats. Edible even stuck a cat picture into Kilga's post (unless I'm mistaken). And here, you claim that not only your rolename is Touhou-related (my googles and wiki searches on "sukusuku" and "sukusuku hakutaku" failed to turn up anything but EX Keine references), but also your role picture.
Also, while in my role PM my role reads exactly how it was posted in the OP (for example if my role was Voyeur, I received a role PM stating I was "Voyeur" instead of "Watcher" or something). However, YOUR claim gave a role description that a) didn't match any of the posted roles and b) had nothing to do with actually describing the role aside from stating that you're a townie, the descriptor "Praline" seems to have been put there just to attempt to follow the cat/pet theme of the game >_>;
##Unvote
##Vote NekoNekoRex
Now this is one lynch I will NOT hop off from unless at least 2 other players can vouch that the role picture they received is not a real photo of an animal, and that their role as written in the role PM is different (aside from the addition of the word "Townie" in the front, if any) from the one posted in the OP of this thread (I'm not asking anyone to post either of those).
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Vanilla claim doesn't affect my opinion one way or another, scum should have been given fake VT PMs. Waiting for Serela.
Cut: "Praline" is a type of sweet. The picture in my role PM is not a cat. So uh.
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That's not entirely true. I said that he'd proved you two had started a feud as early as the posts he'd pointed out.
I see. It read to me like that was the -only- thing you got from the posts he quoted, rather than -one- thing you got from them. Might be my mistake then.
My current theory is that as the running counterwagon to scum Neko is likely town so..
That requires assuming that Serela definitely is scum, though. Which given that the current choice is between Serela and Neko, is kind of :V
Neko: More to the point, you've shown how you think my reasoning is unfair and pisses you off and all. But you still haven't shown how it's not actually true. Lots of AtE, but no actual counter-arguments makes me even more sure you need the rope.
--cut by Raitaki
Uh...... what in all hell.
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Also my role PM is different from the synopysis in the OP. So.
I can only imagine this train of thought being harmful to town since it could imply shit about power roles to the scum. It's pretty obvious the only consistent theme is "cute".
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What.
No, seriously, what.
that reasoning might be valid on the other site, but here it's just...bleh.
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@HW: Still, it's a different format from my role PM. I didn't get any descriptors of the sort.
@Shadoweh: Yep. The only thing forbidden was screenshotting the role PM or swapping account passwords. However there is always at least one paragraph of flavor text in each role PM, and those are usually unique for each player (quite a few mods go as far to writing entire backgrounds), so if you're fabricating good luck making an authentic one. And no, no sekrit codez in the role PMs.
@Everyone: Sorry for my sudden jump. But coming from a community where role PM fabricators thrived, I just had to jump at it :V And my point still stands, so unless enough individuals can vouch for the validity of that claim (again, not asking anyone to claim anything but that their role PM follows the same format), then I'll back down from NNR vote.
-cut-
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Edible, If the five VT's use their powers combined does it form Captain Planet?
Edible stated they form Voltron, Town Voting Block, in the setup notes :V
more talk about who's the scumteam. Come sing sweet songs into the air about how we're on scum today.
If Serela flips scum I'd likely persue HW and Pesco since they pretty much avoided the Serela wagon all day. More HW then Pesco, though.
I only have so many words. I didn't express disapproval with the Serela lynch, so I'm still fine wth it but think Rex is more likely to flip scum. Would switch to Serela for deadline though.
This sounds like HW's trying to sweep Serela under the rug or sit on the fence about it so he doesn't get scrutinized later.
Then your claim is highly suspect. Judging from some of his modposts and modedits, it's fairly obvious that this Mafia game is centered around cats
The game is "Adorable Mafia" not "Kittens Mafia". Word of advice: Setup speculation is only going to get you bulldozed once I flip town. If you're relying on modhints you're on the wrong Mafia forum.
cut
Neko: More to the point, you've shown how you think my reasoning is unfair and pisses you off and all.
Last game =/= this game. My behavior last game also wasn't "agressive" it was "antagonistic". I got modkilled because I was trolling Schezo nonstop, then gloating about it later.
ENOUGH CUTS
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I can safely say my role PM contains no cats. There -is- something really cute and Touhou related there, though. <3
This being Adorable Game of Mafia and all.
--cut
Neko: Still no actual reasoning.
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peeked in when I had a minute and oh
baby penguin brigade (link included) (http://i.imgur.com/XYNW7.jpg), rogue cop
Also yeah as this implies my role is not actually a cat nor do I think that the "animal" neko actually claimed is suspect in itself. I didn't claim right away because... well, yeah. :T
I think Rai's complete silliness with that post is pretty much a towntell. I'm pretty sure he'd have at least mentioned this to his scumbuddies before he did it, and that they'd tell him "Hell no".
I didn't receive any descriptor like "praline" or something like that, if it matters.
Will be fully back before a terribly long time.
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Vote Count: Karkat (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdROu4LlR1E) edition
NekoNekoRex (6): PX, Pesco, huh what, Omba, Serela, Raitaki
Serela (4): NekoNekoRex, Shadoweh, IHNN, BT
Omba (2): Kilgamayan, Affinity
Not voting: Nobody!
NekoNekoRex is at L-1!
You have ~2.5 hours remaining. With 12 in play, it takes 7 votes to launch.
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I think Serela is
fakeclaiming
the cop to draw out the real cop
##Vote: Serela
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Rai, I suggest you rethink your vote. You've had 2 people claim non-real animals, and I'm also vouching for having something in my role PM that is not a real animal.
I think Serela is fakeclaiming
the cop to draw out the real cop
##Vote: Serela
My thoughts exactly.
I think I can break this setup actually... :ohdear:
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##Unvote
##Vote: Serela (L-2)
Yeah uh. Any breadcrumbs?
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I think I can break this setup actually... :ohdear:
How? Explain.
I'm inclined to believe Serela's claim.
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@HW: I wouldn't say that scum wouldn't get any useful info from this about power roles. If my push here reveals that power roles (assuming NNR ever turns out to be Innocent Child), any townie fakeclaiming can just adjust their fakeclaim to fit the criteria as well. Also it doesn't matter if your role PM is different. I'm only asking for anyone to claim that a) their role picture is anything aside from a real photo of an animal, and b) their role has some sort of descriptor not listed in OP in it. And at least 2 people each.
If anyone sees any possible harm in me pushing for this (aside from the fact that it makes me assume NNR is scum and vote him for each), then state it, and I'll try my best to answer. Otherwise, there's no harm, so what's wrong with humoring me a little to make me change vote from NNR?
-cut-
Also, double L-1 now. Don't worry guise, if you hammer Serela I'd just continue this D2 unless NNR's role PM is shown valid.
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How? Explain.
I'm inclined to believe Serela's claim.
I have a hunch about the role PM pictures.
Town=Touhou characters, scum=non-Touhous.
If my hunch is correct, then this incriminates Raitaki and Serela.
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How about a last minute wagon on Shadoweh?
I'm more inclined to believe NNR's claim right now.
##Unvote
##Vote Serela
L-1~
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Serela's claim looks awful to me because seriously, he rolled a very strong power role 100% guaranteed to be in the game and somehow managed not to breadcrumb this at all when it would be a near-instant out of any lynch if he did. He didn't even crumb after people started piling on him.
Given that he's up against a VT claim I strongly suspect an attempt to out a counterclaim.
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I have a hunch about the role PM pictures.
Town=Touhou characters, scum=non-Touhous.
If my hunch is correct, then this incriminates Raitaki and Serela.
Half-serious reply. Edible likes to post pictures he associates with scum in the thread. ;o
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I'll be away for ~40 minutes. Please don't hammer before I'm back.
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I'm pretty sure that the role PM pictures mean absolutely nothing and that we should stop speculating. How is this not obvious?
Pesco, why'd you drop Nameless / later vote NNR over him?
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You clearly don't know Edible well enough to be making those kinds of ass-pulls.
Have a peek at what Praline looks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praline) like.
I reread the setup. Voyeur is way stronger than the cop.
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;_;
Well this is going to be a good reminder to me that next time I roll a power role I should make some kind of obscure crumb at the start.
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Pesco, why'd you drop Nameless / later vote NNR over him?
I forgot about IHNN as NNR made himself clearly terrible. Part of it may be due to Kilga being adamant that IHNN wasn't getting lynched today.
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If Serela flips scum I'd likely persue HW and Pesco since they pretty much avoided the Serela wagon all day. More HW then Pesco, though.
Wait, you'd shoot for Pesco and I but not the guy you've been attacking recently who has arguably been ignoring the Serela wagon more? Read inconsistent.
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Wait, you'd shoot for Pesco and I but not the guy you've been attacking recently who has arguably been ignoring the Serela wagon more? Read inconsistent.
Those were two names that immediately jumped to mind when I considered who'd make decent scumbuddies to Serela, and that quote popped up when I considered it.
It's not like I didn't consider Omba but as a scumbuddy he didn't instantly click into place as well. I'd have to do a reread and I'm not going to be around much longer and don't have time
I'm not just tunneling on Serela and Omba you know. I read other posts.
I'm not going to be around for deadline. In fact I have stuff to do starting in 20 minutes.
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##Unvote
##Vote: NekoNekoRex (L-2)
Checked past Serela games and realized that he basically never crumbs his role (including the last time he rolled cop) unless something that prompts him to softclaim comes up, so it's entirely possible he's just being Dumb and very likely that my point about breadcrumbs doesn't mean anything.
Rex's claim doesn't mean anything since scum should've been given fake VT PMs and I'd be quite surprised if they weren't.
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*sigh* Upon closer inspection, NNR's picture appears to be posted on imgur about 3 days ago, which was around when this thread came up. It's hard to think NNR uploaded that pic 3 days ago just for this game, so I'll clear any suspicions on his claim for now.
##Unvote
Now let me reread on Serela to see if he deserves an instant hammer.
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Okay so I figured since I -don't- want to die and I'm back and stuff I should totes reread Neko and try to pick out scummy stuff. So I'ma be doin' that in a minute.
But yeah, crumbing has never actually occurred to me as a thing to do in a mafia game before :T I should fix that.
cut and Raitaki if you hammer I'm going to hurt you, seriously. Pretty sure plenty of other people will frown at you for that too on D2. There's still discussion and stuff going on here and we've got time.
-
we've got time.
2 hours left is time enough?
-
##Unvote
##Vote: NekoNekoRex (L-2)
Checked past Serela games and realized that he basically never crumbs his role (including the last time he rolled cop) unless something that prompts him to softclaim comes up, so it's entirely possible he's just being Dumb and very likely that my point about breadcrumbs doesn't mean anything.
Rex's claim doesn't mean anything since scum should've been given fake VT PMs and I'd be quite surprised if they weren't.
Well I might as well lay down and die with that logic, seeing as I'm against the fucking cop.
Might as well lynch me and lynch the cop if he isn't NK'd tonight with that reasoning
Clearly that's within my Wincon to say that, right?
I have literally no defense here if you're going to pull this bullshit.
-
Present.
-
If Serela never crumbs roles then he could feasibly claim anything and have it be believed.
Therefore I'm going to be skeptical of any Serela claim.
Neko: do not give up.
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Okay I reread Neko but I still don't think he's scum afterwords :T
It would be totally cool to quickwagon Omba instead but I know that's not going to happen at all.
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I asked about quickwagoning Shadoweh. No particular reason, just a feeling.
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If you want to quickwagon Shadoweh, why're you voting the player she's been pushing all day? Also, why is Rex's claim better than Serela's from your point of view?
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Well I've got to go for my Dungeons and Dragons meetup right now.
That just leaves two hours in which I will be completely unable to defend myself, right?
I assume I'll just get put down humanely or something since I won't be here and I'm against an Open Setup Cop in a game with two other Cop-type roles.
Let's just recap, shall we?
NekoRex rolls Vanilla Town
NekoRex starts ED1 making an ~unpopular opinion~
NekoRex draws the ire of Town mid D1
NekoRex gets wagoned
NekoRex manages to stave off the wagon late in the day (at least temporarily)
Oh wait, that only sums up literally every game I've played
NekoRex, MotkTown Miller
"What scum meta?"
BRB having fun with IRL friends as RANCOR THE AMAZING DWARF KNIGHT
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If you want to quickwagon Shadoweh, why're you voting the player she's been pushing all day? Also, why is Rex's claim better than Serela's from your point of view?
Praline
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Again, what makes you think scum didn't just receive safe VT PMs?
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Bleh.
Still would vote Serela over NNR. Serela scummier than NNR on play. Claim throws wrench into works, but subsequent play has come off as depending entirely on claim to carry him through rest of day. Get no sense of urgency from him. Don't see the final set of opinions any townie should be putting forth when this close to the noose. Makes claim look very much like "let me live!" instead of something genuine.
Fake Edit: Goddamn, NNR is doing himself no favors. Basically throwing a tantrum at this point. Not providing last-minute opinions. This is also not how town goes down. :| Wish either of them would step up and do something townie.
/r/ votecount/timer update
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The amount of effort Edible put into writing them.
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We have until 7:30ish EST.
Neko has IRL stuff until deadline, putting together an opinion post takes time, which Neko may not have had.
Serela, it's you or Neko. Based off of play only, why should we lynch Neko over you?
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As I said, I reread Neko just now, and I don't even think he's scum :T So I'm kind of moot on any points there.
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Vote Count: Yuyuko playing IIDX (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaCL1z5cbVA) edition
Serela (5): NekoNekoRex, Shadoweh, IHNN, BT, Pesco
NekoNekoRex (4): PX, Omba, Serela, huh what
Omba (2): Kilgamayan, Affinity
Not voting: Raitaki
You have ~1.5 hours remaining. With 12 in play, it takes 7 votes to launch.
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Not inclined to take Serela's role claim at face value at the moment. Feels like a last-ditch sink-or-swim, and if it was me I'd have tried harder to defend and reinforce this claim, seeing how rogue cop is a fairly vital role to town, especially later on when townies start to dwindle and it becomes harder to secure lynches because of scum interference. Also he seems pretty uncaring to me.
If after vote count Serela is not L-1 I'll vote him.
@Mod: Also, question of interest, if rogue cop decides not to use his NK on an odd night for example N1, can he still use his NK on N2 without consequence and skip N3 NK?
-multicut-
Eh, he's not L-1. ##Vote Serela
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@Mod: Also, question of interest, if rogue cop decides not to use his NK on an odd night for example N1, can he still use his NK on N2 without consequence and skip N3 NK?
Night Action. The cop doesn't kill.
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The rolecop does :V
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Serela. Dude. If you are an actual town cop, then put some damn effort into not getting lynched. Seriously.
Anyway. I think a counter-claim would be worth it if Serela really is not the cop. Unless I'm seeing one, I will not budge on my Neko vote. He still needs desperately needs the rope.
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I'm not even going to ask what all those posts before Serela's claim are about.
Comparison to Magical Girl Serela-Cop says last time Serela was a cop he freaked out and went into panic mode (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10806.msg716176.html#msg716176) when he was a wagon, about 5 hours before lynch. Currently Serela looks pretty eh about his own lynch and the claim feels like an after-thought. He didn't think it was important enough to say before he left. (Scum buddy deciding if he was salvagable or not?)
Also penguins are card carrying mafiosos. Look at those tux's.
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Anyway. I think a counter-claim would be worth it if Serela really is not the cop. Unless I'm seeing one, I will not budge on my Neko vote. He still needs desperately needs the rope.
How are you weighing up the worth for a counterclaim if there are already people who don't buy the claim?
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...Ouch.
I should stop making myself stand out with all these derps ;_;
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He didn't think it was important enough to say before he left.
Because I didn't want to claim before I left! I was going to be back with hours left in the day, and hopefully wouldn't -have- to claim. Keep in mind there is no doctor here. The cop getting lynched d1 really, really sucks.
But then again, I'm gonna be nk'd even if I'm not lynched! Now that's just awesome. I don't even think my counterwagon is scum. I'm not motivated because even not getting lynched will barely get me anywhere, I'll still end up dead and the other person up for lynch is IMO town.
Magical girl mafia was almost an entire year ago. I've changed since then.
As for Omba, there's a reason I generally lurk out D1. I can barely get anything out of it until... generally about halfway through d2.
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Keep in mind there is no doctor here. The cop getting lynched d1 really, really sucks.
the cop claiming d1*
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Yeah, would still vote Serela. Still no trace of townie-on-the-ropes attitude.
(Or everyone could switch to Omba for suggesting a counterclaim when the claim hasn't done Serela a ton of good.)
Fake Edit: Well Serela taking the same AtE approach that NNR was guilty of makes me feel even better about this decision.
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How are you weighing up the worth for a counterclaim if there are already people who don't buy the claim?
I'm weighing it up against me buying the claim to a degree and me thinking Neko is scum.
--cut cut cut
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I can get behind an Omba lynch in light of that.
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I can get behind an Omba lynch in light of that.
As said before I'm still totes up for Omba lynch. Unlike Neko, I can probably even -make a case- on Omba! Actually that's a really cool idea. Since, unlike Neko, I actually think Omba is SCUM, this is actually sort of uplifting :D Okay I'm gonna go make that right now hell yes.
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Omba asking for a counter-claim is only scummy if Serela is his buddy.
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Then we lynch Serela and when Serela flips scum we lynch Omba D2 by association.
Since we can't do the opposite.
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To make it more clear: I want a counter-claim if Serela is not the cop, because if Serela is the cop I want to lynch Neko.
Yeah Serela, go ahead and make a case.
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I'm weighing it up against me buying the claim to a degree and me thinking Neko is scum.
The scum benefit of what you're wanting is more than the town benefit. While the cop this game isn't town's best power, it's not worth throwing away like that.
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That or we just don't line up lynches.
I still want to lynch Rex. I don't think Serela's AtE is on the same level as his since Serela is explaining where his discouraged thought process came from. Rex is just smokescreening via :rage:.
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In theory claiming makes you confirmed town so it would suck much more if you just let yourself die. If you're really a confirmed town cop then why would you not be screaming at people? The worst that happens is a real suspect dies and you take the nightkill.
Everyone always says they've changed. >_> They are usually wrong. People's attitudes don't change that much. I'd be really disapointed if you'd forgotten how to have a will to live as town suddenly.
Also fyi I have already said I have rabbit heads in my hair so I'm probably not a cat. Yeah.
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Omba asking for a counter-claim is only scummy if Serela is his buddy.
Granted.
Not really in a position to switch to Serela right now, though.
Fake Edit: Omba, please understand that, assuming Serela is fakeclaiming and the real rogue cop is floating around out there somewhere, they are not going to throw themselves away to secure a lynch that has a very real chance of happening without a counterclaim.
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I'm not even going to ask what all those posts before Serela's claim are about.
Comparison to Magical Girl Serela-Cop says last time Serela was a cop he freaked out and went into panic mode (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10806.msg716176.html#msg716176) when he was a wagon, about 5 hours before lynch. Currently Serela looks pretty eh about his own lynch and the claim feels like an after-thought. He didn't think it was important enough to say before he left. (Scum buddy deciding if he was salvagable or not?)
Also penguins are card carrying mafiosos. Look at those tux's.
I'd like to point out that if Serela had given up and were trying to out a counterclaim it actually benefits him to claim earlier, because then there's more time in which the real cop could see his claim, panic and decide to out. If he claims after the cop checks out for the day then he fails to out a counterclaim, and a cop claim alone evidently isn't enough to save him from a lynch.
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In theory claiming makes you confirmed town
claiming makes you confirmed town
confirmed town
You're using very ~*~*~MotKTown~*~*~ words with no evidence to back it up.
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The scum benefit of what you're wanting is more than the town benefit. While the cop this game isn't town's best power, it's not worth throwing away like that.
It is in my view because after the claims I'm more inclined to believe Serela's than Neko's.
Kilga: If push comes to shove, we could lynch Serela D2 if he doesn't get shot. Even I would have qualms about letting the cop live if I was scum with no way of counter-acting him save for hoping he hits the godfather.
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It depends on how likely his buddies thought it was that the NNR wagon would pull ahead though. Before he left they were neck in neck and it looked like Neko was probably going to pull ahead. It would have been more beneficial if he hadn't had to claim at all.
Pesco, this is an Open Setup. There is one Guarenteed Cop. If no one counterclaims you, you are in theory Confirmed Townie Obvtown 5000(TM) We don't usually play open setups, this isn't the same as another game's claim.
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HW:For that matter, I was sort of afraid the same thing would happen that actually did; e.g., suddenly I gain a ton of suspicion for claiming cop. Since it's an open setup and stuff... well, yeah.
As soon as I saw Neko claimed Praline Town as vanilla, I knew it'd be even riskier to fakeclaim vanilla though, plus the mounting desire for me to claim, so I went and did it.
Also yeah I like the line of thought where we don't lynch me because I'm about to get nk'd anyway. Even if I would get turbolynched d2 for living, I'd be confirmed after death, and I'd have cleared someone as prob-town or as scum. The voyeur can even target me to see who nks me! Win/win :D Oh wait... the voyeur only sees the power they got targetted by, huh? :T Actually I guess I'm not sure.
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Pesco, this is an Open Setup. There is one Guarenteed Cop. If no one counterclaims you, you are in theory Confirmed Townie Obvtown 5000(TM) We don't usually play open setups, this isn't the same as another game's claim.
You must have missed me and Kilga saying that a counterclaim, if it existed, was not worth revealing.
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Wtf Serela.
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Claiming with a result is as close as you can get in this game, short of either the Innocent Child or a dead cop having said you were town with the godfather dead.
I would not vote Neko. If people would rather vote Omba over Serela then I guess I would switch to secure a lynch, but right now I think Serela is scummy and needs to die now.
-Omba cut-
It is in my view because after the claims I'm more inclined to believe Serela's [/s my scumbbudy's ]than Neko's the townie's.
FTFY
-cuts cuts cuts-
You must have missed me and Kilga saying that a counterclaim, if it existed, was not worth revealing.
Counterclaiming scum claiming cop means the cop dies N1, without any results. Wouldn't this want to be avoided?
-cut-
Omba: if that's so "wtf" then vote him.
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It depends on how likely his buddies thought it was that the NNR wagon would pull ahead though. Before he left they were neck in neck and it looked like Neko was probably going to pull ahead. It would have been more beneficial if he hadn't had to claim at all.
Uh, not really. Serela's voteswitch tied the wagons and a few players on the Rex wagon (me, Omba) had expressed interest in lynching Serela earlier on, while there was not quite as much interest in NNR. Kilga had also mentioned support toward your case. At the time Serela delayed his claim it looked like he was about to get consolidated on.
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I'm not arguing that they should. If I didn't think he was faking I wouldn't still be pushing for his lynch. It doesn't make sense from the point of view of someone who could claim and be ~*~Confirmed Town~*~ that they'd be so worried about people not believing them. I also have no reason to trust that you and Kilga are acting in town's best interests.
Serela when you start sharing your fakeclaiming strategy with the thread it's a good time to just admit you're scum and hammer yourself so you can eat your brains the zombie way for real reals.
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Oh screwdamnit.
Serela, give us reads on who you think is scum. I don't even care about great cases or anything. Just reads. ANYTHING.
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wait
As soon as I saw Neko claimed Praline Town as vanilla, I knew it'd be even riskier to fakeclaim vanilla though, plus the mounting desire for me to claim, so I went and did it.
xfd what
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Okay I couldn't come up with any points on Omba other then the ones me and everyone else suspecting Omba have already said to death.
...well -that- enthusiasm was short-lived.
My :care: is vanishing fast since I'm most likely about to be lynched, and will die n1 even if I'm not.
Omba:Okay, well, I can do that, it's simple and quick enough. Gonna use the bathroom and then I'll make a post of that.
HW:CLAIMING COP IS SCARY KAY D: It means instant nk target n1! If I lived as vanilla though...! Also the previous sentence being "I was afraid claiming cop would make people even more suspicious", which turned out to be entirely true.
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... Faith in Serela's claim: Vanishing rapidly. Still want to see those reads, though.
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My reads are... well, for starters. I think Serela is the cop. ##Vote Serela
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:rolleyes:
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lollll
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Cool. =)
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SCUM LYNCH SCUM LYNCH SCUM LUUUUNCH *-*
THERE BETTER BE AN ADORABLE ZOMBIE PENGUIN SCENE HERE EDIBLE
-
You all knew it was gonna happen. :T
I knew I should have claimed rainbow sherbet townie instead.
Shadoweh I'm not luuuuunch D: Unless you're into vore or something.
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I'm totally into vore. Please turn yourself into a female beforehand, though.
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wahahahahahah
Hammer, shut up. I love you guys. All of you.
-
The penguins were discovered to have been engaging in deceptive marketing practices by the heroic adorable cute brigade!
As punishment, they were ROUNDED UP AND GIVEN A PAID VACATION TO THE HALL OF RETIRED ADORABLE THINGS via Travel Cannon!
Serela, playing a baby penguin brigade (http://i.imgur.com/XYNW7.jpg), Mafia Rolecop, has been launched!
It is now Night 1. You have 24 hours to send me a PM with your night action (regardless of whether or not you have one).
Final votecount:
Serela (7): NekoNekoRex, Shadoweh, IHNN, BT, Pesco, Raitaki, Serela
NekoNekoRex (3): PX, Omba, huh what
Omba (2): Kilgamayan, Affinity
Not voting: Nobody!
-
When all the cute things came back the next day, they learned that an especially adorable yamabiko was not among their number, as she was yesterday!
"Oh no!" They said. "Where did she go? She was so cute and innocent, there's no way she was one of the mean exploitative cute things!"
Unfortunately, Kyouko had run out of vacation days and returned to Myouren Temple, where she swept the pathways and greeted everyone cheerfully.
"Yahoo~" was all the assembled creatures heard from the distant mountain.
...
...
Pesco, playing Kyouko Kasodani (http://i.imgur.com/e2VqK.jpg), Mint Town Innocent Child, went back home to her chores and her Byakuren!
//
It is now Day 2.
You have 48 hours to reach a consensus vote. With 10 in play, it takes 6 votes to launch. Good luck!
POSTING RESTRICTION OF THE DAY
All posts over 200 words must also contain a haiku!
This will be the standard contemporary English haiku, I.E. 5-7-5 spacing.
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Urk. There goes the would-be confirmed town ;_;
Let's get on with the game. Next up in my list, ##Vote Omba
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Well, that's some bad luck.
Let's see here, ##Vote: Omba for trying to out the cop D1. No matter how I look at it, I can't see a townie motivation behind that action. Further reasons for this vote can be found in the first half of my case!post.
-cut-
-
##Vote: Omba (L-3)
Obvious explanation for Serela's irrational, unjustified hate toward Omba. When the wagons were set at Serela - 5, Rex - 4, Omba - 2 with Raitaki considering voting Serela (#294 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg868046.html#msg868046)), town!Serela's best bet of lynching scum was to tie Rex/Omba then attempt to promote an Omba lynch. This was also scum!Serela's best bet at looking town. Instead taking a survival ploy of giving up implies that he didn't want to fight for another lynch, because the only lynch he could reasonably fight for was his buddy. Also, Omba's posts addressing Serela look like buddy frustration given that Omba didn't prioritize Serela over other targets and the comments weren't actually constructive or inquisitive - note #298 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg868051.html#msg868051), #99 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg867033.html#msg867033) -> #157 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg867528.html#msg867528). Him hanging onto the Rex vote despite considering the possibility of infighting (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg867962.html#msg867962) resembles an excuse to avoid Serela switch.
Suspect Affinity - he never posted why IHNN and Rai were townie, just why certain attacks on them were null, so explicitly saying "I think [IHNN is] town" and going out of his way to attack people based on faulty stances on IHNN is a bit of a stretch given that they should have been neutral reads. See also stance on Rai, he said that Omba wasn't trying to differentiate between newbscum / newbtown, but how was Affinity seperating newbtown / newbscum when his justification for Rai being town was that Rai was "using effort"? His D1 scumhunting basically followed a pattern of "assume newbies are town because -> target people attacking those newbies", which is questionable when there was no solid reason to lean town on IHNN or Rai until Serela flipped.
Serela, the cases on him do make sense, but Koromo don't see him as scum. Koromo can provide a defense later on, but not now.
pls explain
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:ohdear: :ohdear: :ohdear: :ohdear:
meep
@mod: Is there a posting restriction today?
---
Last two posts + Yesterday's antics make me want to immediately vote Omba but I'm afraid if I do that someone will call me out because yesterday I said I thought HW/Pesco were Serela's scumbuddies (which might not apply considering ~deadline antics~, and also Pesco being dead)
(pls dont redcard me)
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OH RIGHT I TOTALLY FORGOT ABOUT TODAY'S POSTING RESTRICTION WHOOPS
One moment.
POSTING RESTRICTION OF THE DAY
All posts over 200 words must also contain a haiku!
This will be the standard contemporary English haiku, I.E. 5-7-5 spacing.
This takes effect from this post until the end of the day.
-
Last two posts + Yesterday's antics make me want to immediately vote Omba but I'm afraid if I do that someone will call me out because yesterday I said I thought HW/Pesco were Serela's scumbuddies (which might not apply considering ~deadline antics~, and also Pesco being dead)
I wouldn't. Your scumteam guess (made a bit sooner than you should probably be making full team guesses) was proven wrong.
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Oh god.
So there ARE times literature can be applied even if I'm not going to be a writer ;_;
-cut-
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@mod: can the 200 words per post limit to force a haiku be evaded by consecutively posting? Do votes count towards the 200 words?
[edible]1) No
2) Yes (because I'm not going to remove them in a wordcount thing, and it's only one word :V)[/edible]
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Neko: How about instead of sounding so scared you explain why you changed your mind in detail? You look pretty good after yesterday, so don't worry about appearances. Just get it all out.
I am mildly busy for now but will look over things. Huh what, Kilga, I want to hear from both of you why you so carefully sounded support for lynching Serela while managing to avoid ever being on his wagon. IHNN is probably town based on Serela's :effort:. I'm not sure if Omba's a good target for the same reason.
I totally can't write haikus so this is karma for abusing quote walls yesterday
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Huh what, Kilga, I want to hear from both of you why you so carefully sounded support for lynching Serela while managing to avoid ever being on his wagon.
I liked the Rex lynch more, done.
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just because you are
town does not mean that you can
be a jerk to me
I can't tell if that's really 5-7-5 :S
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I don't actually have a legit reason for preferring the Rex lynch after comparing the two beyond "feelings", I'd just chalk it up to personal bias since I was on him earlier in the day and it was a case I made.
Near the end of the day I thought Serela's reactions were legit and Rex's scumteam guess looked contrived / inconsistent, which is why I checked Serela's past games for breadcrumbs and switched back to Serela.
Also Affinity did the same thing as Kilga and I so I dunno why he's exempt.
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I tend to forget Affinity exists. I agree with your assessment though. The cheerleading (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg867664.html#msg867664) for NNR along with a tentative thumbs up for Serela while lounging is suspicious. Pesco was suspicious of him as well, though I'm more inclined to believe Pesco was offed for looking like he counter-claimed Serela. Either way it will earn a:
##Vote Affinity
from me.
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Shadoweh, that haiku is so bratz. And what the hell, what the hell NNR was not a value judgement whatsoever, but shock and dismay at his borderline hypocrisy. And I fell asleep before the deadline due to my time zone, what did you expect? >_>
General consensus is that Rai was bad at the start and improved towards the end. In my cases against BT (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg866987.html#msg866987) and Omba I have made clear my stances against IHNN and Rai anyway, as town -weighted sides of the WIFOM.
Serela being on IHNN as the lynch-to-go feels scum-town. Guess IHNN can be cleared to some degree. And certainly, what huhwhat says fits their meta, and I'm in agreement with the myriad reasons available to lynch Omba. Omba even flirts with him D1, and I never liked his Rai push after some time.
Let me 'reread'.
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Phone post. Plan to vote Omba when I get home unless vote count gives me a reason not to.
Shadoweh: Kept vote on Omba because I thought him scummier. I did say I prefered Serela lynch to NNR lynch; I would have had to do fancy word dancing to change my vote to NNR (or not change it at all) if Serela didn't self-hammer, wouldn't I?
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(http://i.imgur.com/JGjhn.png)
Neko: How about instead of sounding so scared you explain why you changed your mind in detail? You look pretty good after yesterday, so don't worry about appearances. Just get it all out.
Yesterday had alot of mounting pressure when I woke up to find I was building up to the main wagon for the day, along with the looming thought my inevitable D&D meeting would leave me defenseless for two hours. The Pesco/HW call was literally off the top of my head with almost no readback, I was getting desperate around that point. Mostly mild gut with the thoughts that Pesco and HW were doing quite a bit of sidelining up to that point and were basically ignoring Serela to push my lynch.
Like I said, I want Omba dead, but didn't have the time to find any connections yesterday, and I was pushing for a Serela lynch. It should be obvious I find Omba extremely scum considering yesterday's antics, and #340 / #341 is a pretty secure scumbuddy connection in my opinion.
##Vote:Omba (L-2)
In a fit of rage
I stormed out of thread
Thinking I was dead
And that's terrible
(pls don't redcard me)
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Vote Affinity
His posts D1 show very little scumhunting. He rather avoided both main wagons, and only showed support of Serela at the end of D1. His vote was on Omba the entire day, but didn't try pushing his lynch
@Huhwhat
I thought he was Town, and NNR was scum >_>
Need I post a defense on someone who flipped scum?
Omba's later posts do indeed look like he's Serela's buddy and trying to get him to look better/draw out the cop before he tried to bus him, but the one part that doesn't make sense to me is why Serela would self hammer instead of letting Omba hammer?
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Won't be home for a while due to car issues.
Shadoweh: Why not
ask Omba why he did not
vote for Serela?
Serela his second choice in #190, but then he chose NNR over Serela in #221 at fairly important juncture. With fairly weak explanation You asked him to explain his differentiation in I think #227 and I don't recall him ever addressing that.
You want someone trying to actively avoid the Serela wagon while still looking like they supported it? There you go.
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EBWOP: Should read "...fairly important juncture with fairly weak reasoning. You asked him to explain..."
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Crap, forgot.
I'm heading on a trip tomorrow and completely forgot about it, so I'll lose computer access. Koromo will still follow on phone, but that might not be possible. Koromo shall still be more active than ActionDan, but if Koromo can't then Koromo shall replace out.
CUT: Kilga
Might as well throw out a Haiku
Serela flipped Scum
Pesco flipped Innocent Child
It is now Day Two
Cut Kilga again >_>
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Also @Shadoweh: Where did Serela put in :effort: against Omba? His suspicions of Omba were one sentence that he didn't even finish (and no one ever asked him to elaborate upon) and he never further explained his suspicions, only reaffirmed that they were there. Serela pursuit of Omba crazy weak, don't know why you think it strong enough to consider them unlikely scumpair.
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PX: Wasn't Omba a main lynch, and didn't I question him thoroughly and stuff? What makes you think this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg867664.html#msg867664) and this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg867609.html#msg867609) isn't scumhunting, or the very least, 'not showing interest in Serela' until end of D1? The verbosity?
Rarrrgh!
##Vote: PX
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The first link doesn't explain how that makes him scum, while the second link shows more like you're trying to disprove his case and less trying to find out if he's scum or not.
And the vote does not impress.
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Home now, but I think I've basically laid out the important parts of what I had typed up beforehand (and the weather was so nice as to knock my power out for several hours so I lost my writeup anyway).
Summary of Omba would-be vote if he weren't already on L-2 are a combination of the Day 1 case stuff (fluff in posts, antagonistic/disrespectful words), trying to root up the rogue cop counterclaim, and the way he avoided jumping on the Serela wagon despite Serela being his second-strongest suspect in #190. On top of the fact that his vote tied the Serela/NNR wagons and he never addressed Shadowert's #227, the fact that his switch to NNR came after pesco and HW switched to NNR makes it look like possible attempt to curry favor with generally-accepted-as-quality players by falling in line behind them.
but the one part that doesn't make sense to me is why Serela would self hammer instead of letting Omba hammer?
Why would Omba hammering have gained him any town credit after Serela dun goofed?
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It seems SEN is hosting mafia again ;o In a few days I'll start to play 2 mafia games at once, in addition to possibly working at school, so I won't post as much, but I'll still keep an eye on this and try to take part. Just a heads up.
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As a heads up, I'll be on a train during most of tomorrow, meaning limited chances to post. I'll also be at my grandmother's for a few days following but should still have consistent internet.
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I don't want to provide Omba with a defense before he's had much of a chance to defend himself, but I do think the attacks on IHNN and Omba were similar. I will give an opinion on the end of day stuff laters when i have had a chance to sleep
Rai I am pretty sure you can play this game and your secret decoder puzzle game just fine. Tell us more about scum reads please.
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A few days from now, not now. Now I'm going to sleip as I wait for Omba to post something that makes the probability of me voting him double digits.
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@PX: Didn't I say many many times that I found Omba's dragging out his Rai case too far to the point of voteparking? Which is enough of a scummy thing?
Isn't questioning the validity and sincerity of cases the first step to scumhunting? There are many examples of this anywhere, anyway, and I don't think you're thinking this through properly.
===
BT's later-D1 IHNN case yesterday was probably the best of its kind, and feels reasonable in hindsight given that he explained his preferences on the main wagons. The amicable way in which he approached the people voting him seems disarming as well, making him probably the best non-Serela voter D1.
Didn't have an opinion on NNR yesterday, but his early position on the Serela wagon does give him points. Would like to ask him: NNR, why did you rather vote Serela than Omba, despite you 'pressing' the later more?
I doubt that Serela would vote scum so early in the day, and thus IHNN gets a tentative clear for now. Same goes with Shadoweh, whose vote was the defining vote on the wagon which everyone agreed with.
With this, well, there's HW, Kilga, Rai and PX, who I'm willing to look at today, all of them cryptic. PX D1 just feels a bit passive, asking a few alright questions here and there, taking care to talk about the main wagons, but his total abstinence from all Serela discussion is suspicious. Goes after NNR (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg867622.html#msg867622) for 'observation and waffling', while handwaving Serela for doing the same? Something's there, hence my vote.
-
Mafia oft runs one's
tempers amok, indignant.
Still, stay as you are.
-
Didn't have an opinion on NNR yesterday, but his early position on the Serela wagon does give him points. Would like to ask him: NNR, why did you rather vote Serela than Omba, despite you 'pressing' the later more?
Serela was virtually nonexistent during MidD1, so pressing her was impossible. I noted several times that voting Omba because he was more active was a fallacy I wasn't going to fall into.
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I do think the attacks on IHNN and Omba were similar
Why? IHNN got a vote and some attempt at a case, Omba got literally less than a sentence.
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Next up in my list, ##Vote Omba
Now I'm going to sleip as I wait for Omba to post something that makes the probability of me voting him double digits.
What? You're already voting him, are you saying you're waiting for him to dissuade you?
Anyway, I'll re-read the game a little later and see if that changes my opinions on anyone.
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@IHNN: At the moment my stance is getting Omba lynched no matter what. If he manages to dissuade me a little then I might consider other options if at any point an Omba lynch seems nonviable (but that seems pretty unlikely considering the early L-2)
Rereading everyone from scratch to try to decide the next candidate after Omba.
-
Call me a hipster
but I think this lynch is off
Post will come later
Or maybe it'll come now.
His D1 scumhunting basically followed a pattern of "assume newbies are town because -> target people attacking those newbies", which is questionable when there was no solid reason to lean town on IHNN or Rai until Serela flipped.
no
IHNN is probably town based on Serela's :effort:.
nono
Serela being on IHNN as the lynch-to-go feels scum-town. Guess IHNN can be cleared to some degree.
nonono
Serela was an easy bus. IHNN was an easy bus. Serela's only legitimate push was on IHNN. IHNN's only legitimate push was on Serela, bar Omba. ED1 IHNN was a case of cautious scum, LD1 IHNN was Die Serela Die with Omba on the backburner. His Serela jump remains the most likely bus, what with the inconsistent read and the need to get a stance ASAP. Now there's this:
Well, that's some bad luck.
Let's see here, ##Vote: Omba for trying to out the cop D1. No matter how I look at it, I can't see a townie motivation behind that action. Further reasons for this vote can be found in the first half of my case!post.
Trying to out the cop as an absolute, lack of townie motivation as an absolute. This is an unnaturally strong stance, especially considering the basis is a lackluster case which has yet to address Omba's LD1 squabble with NNR.
##Vote IHNN
As for the Omba wagon--I don't want to provide Omba with a defense before he's had much of a chance to defend himself
... aghdfaga okay
I was going to go full-on white knight mode, but I'll hold back for now. All I'll say is that the only vote on the Omba wagon I would support is HW's. Seriously.
I'd need to read more to find out if I agree with Shadoweh on Affinity, but gut answer right now is "no". If you want another wagon to rival this monstrosity in a 48hr D2 (and won't vote IHNN with me) you'd have to go into more detail. PX too. Pointing at things is nice, but I want to see how they are scummy. In detail.
Gutjerk right now is at Kilga, mostly for the vote (similar reasons to IHNN's) and unmemorable D1. Uses the word fluff a lot considering he's had a few pointless pokes at Shadoweh himself (it goes to show you if that's what I remember from him of all things), and push on Omba at the moment reads bad considering the problems I have with the wagon. Who not named Omba is scum?
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Vote Count: quack quack quack (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwNdDHEhm2g) edition
Omba (4): Raitaki, IHNN, huh what, NekoNekoRex
Affinity (1): Shadoweh
PX (1): Affinity
IHNN (1): BT
Not voting: Omba, Kilgamayan, PX
You have ~30 hours remaining. With 10 in play, it takes 6 votes to launch.
-
For the sake of being accurate: not Kilga's "vote", because he doesn't have one yet, but you know what I mean.
-
So because I gave a reason you don't like that's scummier than, say, Raitaki's "next on the list"?
Now there's this: Trying to out the cop as an absolute, lack of townie motivation as an absolute. This is an unnaturally strong stance, especially considering the basis is a lackluster case which has yet to address Omba's LD1 squabble with NNR.
Omba explained his reasons for it, I disagree and think they're BS thought up on the spot to avoid flak.
Serela was an easy bus. IHNN was an easy bus mislynch. Serela's only legitimate push was on IHNN. IHNN's only legitimate push case was on Serela, bar Omba. ED1 IHNN was a case of cautious scum town, LD1 IHNN was Die Serela Die with Omba on the backburner. His Serela jump remains the most likely bus chance to hit scum, what with the inconsistent nonexistant read and the need to get a stance ASAP until the fakeclaim.
Funny how my impression of events is pretty much the same as yours except for alignment.
*moves BT up the list of players to re-read...after lunch
Right now I need food.
Be back in a little bit.
I want fried chicken.
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So because I gave a reason you don't like that's scummier than, say, Raitaki's "next on the list"?
I'm voting you for more than one reason.
Omba explained his reasons for it, I disagree and think they're BS thought up on the spot to avoid flak.
That's nice, but my point is that you're rather adamant about it, much like how Confirmation Bias is expected to affect your reads.
Funny how my impression of events is pretty much the same as yours except for alignment.
Stop doing this. In future games too. This is the other sort of Confirmation Bias, only that I don't think you really are town (unfortunately town are guilty of doing this too). Also, what do you mean by 'nonexistent read until the fakeclaim'?
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IIRC I didn't really have a read on Serela until the claim, at which point I went from "none maybe leaning town" to "scum".
I'm voting you for more than one reason.
Stop doing this. In future games too.
Pretty sure I explained my side of all of your reasons. Stop defending myself by giving my version of events?
Confirmation Bias
Part of why you find me scum is you think Serela and I were double bussing. Part of why I find Omba scum is I think he was defending his scumbuddy.
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Pretty sure I explained my side of all of your reasons. Stop defending myself by giving my version of events?
Simply explaining 'your side' does nothing, because the one earns votes is because people believe 'his side' isn't the reality. A defense would be explaining why your side is dominant, not explaining your side.
Part of why you find me scum is you think Serela and I were double bussing. Part of why I find Omba scum is I think he was defending his scumbuddy.
Are you going anywhere with this?
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EBWOP: ... since one earns votes because people believe that 'their side' isn't the reality. ...
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BT: Third scum is most likely one of you and PX. Leaning PX due to his question about the Omba wagon coming off more as an attempt to cast doubt on the wagon than being a legitimate question (see my response in #362) and his case on Affinity containing points I disagree with (I thought Affinity was a good deal more proactive on D1 than PX seems to be giving credit for). Came out of D1 with a town read on everyone else.
-
Third scum is most likely one of you and PX.
...
(I thought Affinity was a good deal more proactive on D1 than PX seems to be giving credit for).
I'm halfway through D1 and agreeing with this so far. Affinity was fairly active as well- with a lot more posts than BT/PX at the point I'm at.
BT, I'm typing up a response to you as well. I'll address the Omba/Neko LD1 then.
-
Simply explaining 'your side' does nothing, because the one earns votes is because people believe 'his side' isn't the reality. A defense would be explaining why your side is dominant, not explaining your side.
The way you saw it, I was bussing. The way I see it, if I were scum I would have "believed" the claim and switched to probably Omba for "scummy intent in outing a counterclaim". But I don't know what I would have done as the other alignment because I'm not the other alignment.
Furthermore, Omba was on the backburner because I was more confident Serela would flip scum than Omba would. When I linked "Another One Rides the bus" in response to Serela finding me and Omba scummy, I was referring to Serela [kind of] bussing Omba.
Are you going anywhere with this?
I'm pointing out that your reason for voting me is partially based off a connection to the flipped scum, like part of my reason for voting Omba.
Omba/Neko interactions mid D1 feel town/scum to me, I don't find Neko scummy, I find Omba scummy. Neko's #151 specifically feels like a townie post with good reasons for suspecting Omba. The LD1 interactions feel almost like a townie slapfight, but Omba seemed to be trying to make Neko slip up somehow to get people to switch off Serela.
BT case next post
PX was a huge lurker.
We should lynch Omba.
(also there was no rule about no consecutive posting today)
-
Now that I reread all of PX's posts in a row, I'm not getting a good impression from him. He used quite a few self-contradicting arguments. Repeatedly attacked Affinity for not commenting much about me, while all he said about me was pretty much "Raitaki's last vote is still blarhgjdg" and "Rai actually scumhunting looks better". His #188 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg867622.html#msg867622) is pretty meh, basically free shrugs for nearly all the bandwagons that time, telling Affinity to comment on me (again, for some reason), then....tossed IHNN aside because "there's other things Koromo would like to press", voted NNR for vague reasons then vanished for almost a full day? Huh?
PX's stream of posts doesn't make me very happy.
Kilga looking fine so far. So does HW. NNR's read is still mostly null, but given Pesco's reply to my suspicions against Neko's claim (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg868013.html#msg868013) I'd say his claim is legit. Same for Shadoweh minus the claim.
BT doesn't look too bad. He's pretty insistent on pushing an IHNN vote, but I don't find that scummy in particular. Didn't comment a lot on the major ED1 bandwagons though (Omba/Serela/NNR), and although disagreeing with the Omba and NNR wagons he didn't say much about the cases against them. I would FoS BT if Omba (or Neko, if he happens to be lynched) flips scum.
So that leaves...IHNN and Affinity. I'll reread on those two later.
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Agree that NNR's #64 is out of place. At worst, it's an attempt to derail the wagon. At best, it's a weird jab (do consider that we're only on the third page).
Read "worst case". Your post was plausibly scum-motivated so I noted as much. Throwing away two votes (Omba's and PX's) to the dump with a simple comment about content (when low-to-gut(no) content votes are nothing special during ed1) is pretty handy for scum.
Early suspicion on NNR.
...And his [IHNN] latest post is OMGUS. You could get similar "vibes" from any vote on Rai at this stage. Of course, the votes are reasonable, and so is mine. Too bad "vibes" lets you get away with that, though.
Casually dismisses my vote in the same way as he said NNR was dismissing Omba?s and PX?s.
General impression is that there is a lack of scum in the building. Eagerly awaiting reading HW/Serela /Kilga once they actually show up. <_<
This could be explained by a lucky guess, as the odds aren?t too out there. Not mentioning PX here though is a bit strange.
Case is neat, but I prefer the dude with a solid stance over the dude that blames his lack of a solid stance on meta. What in particular made you satisfied with IHNN's response?
Not seeing the Omba case so much. Continuous fluff would be a problem but so far he voiced his opinions passably at worst.
Handwaves Omba, continues pushing for me, gives Serela a temporary clear.
Vote stays on IHNN. Handwaving play as silly needs to stop.
This is a little interesting. Ignores meta on me showing the way I play is this way, but uses Serela?s meta as a temp-clear. What?s the difference? Alignment.
Will elaborate on my point in #149: gut stances are throwaways and vote on Rai was waffle. Then he pleads confusion with no effort to improve, instead agreeing with cases because he admittedly couldn't make them.
Town acknowledge their faults and work to do their best regardless.
Scum acknowledge their faults and let them be known so that everyone else can do the same.
Recent cases seal the deal. Case on Serela is a restatement of Shadoweh's and case on Omba in particular is a collection and something he could have done earlier (proving my point that he wasn't trying). Recent switch to Serela is bad considering he gutted him as town in #128. Smells like jump.Vote on IHNN was a solid stance. Not ideal execution, waffle on everything else in the world, but seems like he's trying (and failing). Not sold his scummy is scum, sold on IHNN more.
NNR needs further reading. Still uninterested in Omba lynch.
I acknowledged my faults so everyone would know that I actually am trying my best regardless. I did waffle on Rai but I don?t see the problem with that really. I was typing the Serela case before Shadoweh posted hers >.> . As mentioned earlier, I didn?t have time to put together a case on Omba until I did due to IRL stuff. Passes off Serela?s actions as meta, continues to read NNR. Retains a town read on Omba.
My argument is that he was (arguably still is) essentially active lurking by contributing nothing, and "that's okay because he's always like that". I'll be damned if the vote on Rai wasn't a premature jump. In fact, all his votes were easy in one way or another, and his opinions have been nonexistent / easily swayed (which is often a result of them never being authentic).
k.
I was trying to contribute, I switched to Rai due to finding him scummier at the time, my votes have been easy because I switched to people who had just done something scummy, I don?t get strong opinions really fast.
So far BT?s play has been handwave Omba and scum!Serela, discredit me and NNR.
Oh, that's why. I read his post as "don't wanna lynch IHNN, oh wait this post changes my mind, now I want him dead".
*finally* starts finding Serela scummy?
I'm the one that called people out for clearing people because their scumread is voting them in #123. :V Scum/Scum is actually a possibility I'm considering plenty. Both would be seen by scum as meaningful (and easy) wagons at time of voting (Serela on IHNN, IHNN on Serela). Notice that I never said I disagree with Serela's lynch; IHNN's jump could easily be a bus, also considering the inconsistency. I guess I just prefer IHNN if it happens that one of them are town.
?only to remind people he exists and continue pushing for my lynch.
Raitaki: Fair enough. I fully expect everyone to take a good look at IHNN's game today.
##Unvote
##Vote Serela (L-2)
The only things I find crooked about NNR- I already mentioned, nothing else screams at me after several rereads. Would lynch Serela over NNR, would lynch NNR over Omba.
cuts. Omba, what inconsistencies? I'm rather satisfied with how NNR explained his Raitaki vote era.
His last post of D1 FINALLY votes Serela, conveniently never having to weigh in on the cop claim. Somewhat clears NNR only to be willing to vote him over Omba. Discredits me again.
BT?s play through the entire game has been based on tunneling me, commenting on NNR, handwaving Serela until voting with the bandwagon and dismissing Omba.
If Omba flips scum I wouldn?t be surprised if BT is the last one.
PX re-read next.
This post is simply massive.
Who likes walls of text?
While waiting for someone else to post I re-read PX. Didn't take very long. Not my priority to lynch at all, a distant third, though my opinion could easily be overturned by more posts. His arguments are hypocritical in places and by his own measures he'd be really scummy, but overall inconsistency isn't inherently scummy. A distant third. Right now no one else jumped out at me as "needs rope" after re-reading everything.
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EBWOP forgot the haiku
Go go Zergling rush
"Spawn more Overlords", I hear
Ouch. good game no re
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I still exist, yes, I've been heavily analyzing Late D1
There's a few things that stick out alot, mostly Omba points that have already been addressed. Deadline Omba looked pretty much like a scumbuddy pressing Serela to DO SOMETHING and avoid the lunch. I could bring up some post #s but it's pretty much all of them pre-hammer.
Shadoweh's confirmed town theory looked weird in light of him sticking to (and clearly supporting) the Serela vote. He should explain his PoV with that.
HW seemed weird after Serela started talking about :giving up: and fakeclaims, kind of odd that didn't push him to switch but I can forgive it I guess since Serela seemed doomed at that point anyway
Kilga comes off as very townie, would not support any votes on him whatsoever
IHNN leans town as well, would not lynch
BT and PX weren't at deadline so I'll read them later
Post is a bit long
Not sure if two hundred words
Wrote haiku anyway
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Alright, I've slept, eaten
been kidnapped when I started typing this four hours ago and am no longer falling over dead, let's get this show back on the road. Dissecting Serela time.
I'd frownface at Omba for attacking me over doing a random vote in RVS and saying I'm not going to be contributing to imaginary scumhunting, but then I also didn't do anything for a significant amount of time after, so I guess it eventually became a legitimate point, and it's not like he was sitting his vote on me for a long time before the point became legitimate either.
Rai is argh, but since this is his first game here, I'm not terribly surprised at such, so, as usual, leaving that for later in the game where there's more things to look at then "his posts are weird", which anyone could guess would happen since before the game started.
IHNN is posting a bunch, and it feels like he's at least trying, even if it's coming out sort of weird, so I'm not interested in him as a D1 lynch.
This is what I mean by the attacks being the same. Serela picked three random 'bad people' to have a problem with. He then basically talks himself out of being able to vote for them because he is horrible at being able to suspect town. Ilu Serela. His later additions to his Omba case are:
Huh. I reread to see what the hubbub was about Omba and most of his posts are null responses about stuff (Which isn't bad in itself, but does
Where it looks like he fell asleep mid-post and...
Every game for the past year, so. But the reason I'm quoting is because I think this is a -really- silly thing to try to paint as some kind of scummy disconnect >.>;
I like how IHNN is apparently complaining that I'm responding to questions people ask me. :T
Omba is doing something really -silly-. Not scummy, silly. This is not how he talks about someone he knows is scum. This is how you talk about some townie who is doing a really funny thing you're watching.
I guess I'm not going to wait for Omba since it doesn't look like I can afford to. I don't think Omba's actions at the end of day are as 100% bonafide scummy as everyone's making them out to be. Like I said, Serela is the scum ponymobile. I don't believe that he as scum would tie himself so much to Serela's flip, knowing that Serela was 100% no doubt about it not going to be shot in the nightphase as a cop because Serela was the red cop. It seems like he's being used as a scapegoat for everyone's rage at opposing the scumwagon.
Naturally just saying that Omba is town isn't going to do anymore. I've realized the best defense is a good offense. So who does make a good lynch based on the Serela waffle house? It seems like the little bugger was alot more careful about calling people scum for reals this time around. I am currently looking to see who he never mentioned.
Kilgamayan: blank
huh what: He doesn't mention huh what but takes time to answer his questions at least twice.
Affinity: Answers one question about why he's voting IHNN, no opinion.
BT: He doesn't make a direct opinion on him, but one of his 'points' against IHNN was his vote on BT. Here in particular:
...I just noticed Raitaki is less then an hour away from a prod :/ Considering his BT case is ??? (For being the first to try to "derail the wagon by voting IHNN", which... I'm not sure how this is supposed to be indicative of alignment at all), and being under heavy fire, him suddenly turning towards lurking it up isn't very good.
I'm not actually sure if this soft defense is scummy or not, but I'll be looking more into BT in a minute.
PX: blank
Who would spend over
ten hours writing one post
only Shadoweh
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Wait shit hours is two syllables right? >_>
Serela was an easy bus. IHNN was an easy bus. Serela's only legitimate push was on IHNN. IHNN's only legitimate push was on Serela, bar Omba. ED1 IHNN was a case of cautious scum, LD1 IHNN was Die Serela Die with Omba on the backburner. His Serela jump remains the most likely bus, what with the inconsistent read and the need to get a stance ASAP. Now there's this:Trying to out the cop as an absolute, lack of townie motivation as an absolute. This is an unnaturally strong stance, especially considering the basis is a lackluster case which has yet to address Omba's LD1 squabble with NNR.
This implies that Serela ever legitimately pushed anything. His vote I would describe as opportunistic, and other scum wagons aren't really opportunities. Have you considered that you're driving a huge confirmation bias bus? You were clearing Serela earlier in Day 1 because he wasn't as bad as your scumread.
Shadoweh: Case is neat, but I prefer the dude with a solid stance over the dude that blames his lack of a solid stance on meta. What in particular made you satisfied with IHNN's response?
Then outright because his case on IHNN was good and IHNN's case on him was bad.
Recent cases seal the deal. Case on Serela is a restatement of Shadoweh's and case on Omba in particular is a collection and something he could have done earlier (proving my point that he wasn't trying). Recent switch to Serela is bad considering he gutted him as town in #128. Smells like jump. Vote on IHNN was a solid stance.
Not ideal execution, waffle on everything else in the world, but seems like he's trying (and failing). Not sold his scummy is scum, sold on IHNN more.
You can't have it both ways. Your stated reason for changing to Serela was because you believed suddenly it was scum/scum bussing, when this point of view literally makes no sense from how you thought they weren't treating each other the same. I actually like your content but your viewpoints haven't changed in two days. You don't need my permission to fight a lynch you think is wrong, but you need to get your head out of the clouds. If not IHNN who else is scum?
oh good golly me
look at all those words out there
word counts don't scare me
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hi i am writing this post riding a train whoooaaaa :o #yukariswag
this laptop is dumb
can't control plus c or v
kinda annoying
Omba disappearing is remniscient of his reaction to the D3 wagon on him from Townest. Where is he? Shadoweh's post doesn't dissuade me, it's not impossible for Serela to break his meta and the vote patterns still point toward them as scum.
IHNN's BT attack seens shotgunny and shallow to me since it fails to consider that BT was a swing vote for the Serela wagon, basically guaranteeing it as the day's lynch since BT wouldn't be around to switch off. I don't think IHNN makes sense as scum either, though, for similiar votal analysis - there is little reason to bus early D1, and Serela's IHNN vote was the vote that put IHNN at L-2. There was a chance of IHNN's wagon falling apart, no reason for scum!Serela to push his buddy that much. This looks like infighting to me, pls stop etc
I'm bugged by people throwing out "Wouldn't lynch <person who isn't under pressure at all>", not a huge scumtell but totally useless -> fluffy and a bad habit.
In my cases against BT (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg866987.html#msg866987) and Omba I have made clear my stances against IHNN and Rai anyway, as town -weighted sides of the WIFOM.
Having trouble parsing this due to flowery rhetoric. Accepting his defense is reasonable but doesn't actually make him townie, so it's odd for you to just assume IHNN and Rai as town instead of null. Giving newer players free passes and scumhunting based on people attacking them looks awkward when there's no reason to clear them.
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Omba disappearing is remniscient of his reaction to the D3 wagon on him from Townest. Where is he? Shadoweh's post doesn't dissuade me, it's not impossible for Serela to break his meta and the vote patterns still point toward them as scum.
You know, Serela said he was a changed man too. :V People don't really change. I'll have to take your word for the first thing though, I was too busy giggling and drawing Macho Cop pictures to notice him disappear. I can think of another swing vote that happened the other way round though that no one seems to think is worth bringing up.
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##Vote Kilgamayan
Has been on me all of D1, but only starts actually pushing people to vote me D2 - now that there's already a lot of them willing to vote me, anyway.
#381 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg868768.html#msg868768) says he has a town read on everyone but two people he presumably sees as being related to me (can't tell for sure why he suspects BT). Pray tell where that sudden influx of town reads is coming from?
More elaborate case in a bit because :prod:.
Other things. Neko needs to die at some point before LyLo, possibility of scum acting is there, although I'm willing to give him pass based on being the counter-wagon for now.
Oh right, some defense.
Wanting a counter-claim: I was damn sure Neko was scum and wanted to secure his lynch. The only thing that would have convinced -me- to vote Serela at that point would have been a counter-claim. Hence I asked. Possible things that could happen: Counter-claim -> scum lynch (counter-claim by scum would not happen). No counter-claim -> scum lynch if I was right about Neko, otherwise scum lynch on D2.
Him hanging onto the Rex vote despite considering the possibility of infighting (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg867962.html#msg867962) resembles an excuse to avoid Serela switch.
That I ask does not mean I consider it likely (or at all). I asked because I wanted Shadoweh to reconsider (and ideally switch her vote to Neko).
Pondering over things has taken a long while, but I should be mostly back on track now.
More Alcohol
Demanded the brain grimly
The liver cursed
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BT was a swing vote for the Serela wagon, basically guaranteeing it as the day's lynch since BT wouldn't be around to switch off.
Townie motivation: scummiest person at the time
Scum motivation: Look at all the town cred I could get BV
I don't see that as either a towntell or a scumtell, so I didn't include it.
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Other things. Neko needs to die at some point before LyLo, possibility of scum acting is there, although I'm willing to give him pass based on being the counter-wagon for now.
X
I hope your more thurough post makes me feel more vilified in defending you because seriously.
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The fates do not want
Me at the comp on Day 2.
Thanks, power outage.
Shadoweh: I am fundamentally more interested in what suspects say about flipped scum than what flipped scum say about suspects. (Before you ask, I do care about discussing what Serela said about Omba, but only insofar as to convince people that what Serela said does not make them impossible as a scum pair.) On the subject of suspects discussing flipped scum, I will say that Omba having Serela as a second suspect behind Raitaki before changing his vote to having Serela as a second scum suspect behind NNR is extremely similar to how Scum HW handled discussing Scum Zakeri in Dorf Fort Mafia. (Can't really link while on the phone, but I discuss it in my opening Day 2 case, so feel free to check back in the archives for it.) I will again point out that your #227 went unanswered (as far as I can tell; rereading to be sure doesn't really work on the phone.)
I will also say that my case on Omba is as feuled by rage over the way he handled the end of the day just as much as your defense of him is feuled by feelings that he is town combined withjudgment-clouding arrogance from being correct about Serela. As I am sure you will claim the latter is completely untrue, let us try to avoid such rude handwaves of cases people have put meaningful effort into in the future, please.
---
I don't think I'm in an appropriate position to really call Omba's vote an OMGUS, but I will at least point out that his initial explanation for it makes zero effort to tie in the scum flip. For the record, I am pushing this case harder now because (a) it is Day 2 and not Day 1 and I allow myself more words and posts on Day 2, and (b) Shadoweh has been a vocal opponent of tye wagon while using reasoning I think is flawed (with PX similarly so).
As for where my reads came from, I spent my Night 2 reread realizing I had completely forgotten PX and BT were even playing the game, and I always find such people suspicious whenever I realize that about them. NNR is town due to being the D1 counterwagon to a flipped scum. IHNN and Raitaki are probably town because of how quintessentially newbie they are; they're not as grass-green as Vhaltz's Irene was, but they're still both pretty green. Shadoweh is probably town (despite the number of things she's said throughout the game that have irked me) because scum would be suicidally moronic to slam their rolecop on D1 with such a good case in this setup. They now have zero defense for the voyeur that isn't a dumb luck kill and the instant the voyeur spots Scum Shadoweh killing someone all her town credit goes up in smoke. HW and Affinity are my weakest town reads, but I still believe them town due to agreeable words and effort (HW more so for this, but Affinity gets bonus points for continuing to pursue someone I'm almost dead sure is scum when one scum has died already).
I would address how bad the suggestion that NNR needs to die before LYLO is but Shadoweh's reaction tells me I don't really need to go into detail. Let's just say NNR should be near/at the bottom of everyone's scum lists and tack this onto the Omba case.
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The voyeur says what actions were taken against someone, not what actions they took. I honestly don't see the usefulness of the role other than validating claims.
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If the voyeur targets someone, see that only one other person targetted them, and the target die, what do you think the voyeur will conclude?
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If the voyeur targets someone, see that only one other person targetted them, and the target die, what do you think the voyeur will conclude?
Does the voyeur give the players who targeted? My understanding was just the actions taken on a person.
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Or wait, the descripton doesn't match my normal definition of the voyeur.
@Mod: Does the voyeur see who targeted their target?
[edible]The voyeur only sees what abilities targeted someone. It is not a watcher.[/edible]
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It's kinda weird that Serela wouldn't even make a jab at PX. It's possible he forgot PX was playing.
PX, considering the situation with you never telling us why Serela was town and your vote being in the wrong place, I would like an explanation why you thought he was town at the time.
Also stop posting haikus in the signup thread instead of posting in the mafia. >:< AND STOP IDEAING ME!
Cut: I hope you will note I did not include any 'he's town because I say he is' statements in that post. My judgement today is based on reading what people say and what the most likely conclusion is based on that. Both Serela's flailing poking and the way that Omba drew attention to himself at the last minute point towards someone else being guilty. I will admit I'm not as sure of it as I was of Serela being guilty.
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Yes, I don't actually think you're letting being right about Serela go to your head. I just don't appreciate you posting that particular perspective of the Omba case, because it makes me feel like you're not reading my posts.
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[edible]The voyeur only sees what abilities targeted someone. It is not a watcher.[/edible]
Then you need a better name for it, Edibutt, becuase the Voyeur is the Werewolf Watcher equivalent. >:[
This changes things a bit, though I still don't think Shadoweh is scum because her case was really solid.
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Townie motivation: scummiest person at the time
Scum motivation: Look at all the town cred I could get BV
I don't see that as either a towntell or a scumtell, so I didn't include it.
Scum want to avoid scum lynches whenever possible, especially in a set-up so full of info roles as this one. There was a possibility of the Serela wagon dissipating, BT placed himself in a position where he couldn't help it do so and was basically helping scum get lynched for the rest of the phase. Damning the rolecop to a D1 lynch would probably not be worth the cred since it's liable to wear off later on in the game depending on how people approach it.
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I can think of another swing vote that happened the other way round though that no one seems to think is worth bringing up.
Also, what are you referring to here? I'm not getting the implications.
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I don't think I'm in an appropriate position to really call Omba's vote an OMGUS, but I will at least point out that his initial explanation for it makes zero effort to tie in the scum flip.
The fact that Serela completely ignored you was already mentioned. The fact that you had him has your 2nd place suspect pretty much all day is there, but the same goes for me, so I can hardly see that aspect as pointing to you being scum.
Shadoweh: Just remember it later, if it becomes necessary. Ok? Great.
Anyway. Still not done with pondering over stuff, but I very much doubt this day will end without me claiming in any case, so have a claim at least.
Flavour name is Kisume hopping in her bucket; role is Town Voyeur. Have a picture (http://i.imgur.com/Wp69r.png).
I did not crumb this role at any point.
I targeted Kilga N1, no actions were performed on him.
With the rolecop gone, the Voyeur's only use is breaking claims, so I think claiming early here is a good trade-off.
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I am pretty sure you know exactly what I'm referring to and implying there, Mr. Swing Vote.
Cut by uhm, if there is a 'real' Voyeur they should claim, a guarenteed scum lynch would be tech. If not it looks like shit just got derailed.
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Giving newer players free passes and scumhunting based on people attacking them looks awkward when there's no reason to clear them.
It was the way people (omba) were pushing them and advancing things that were not there; he handwaved Rai's scumhunting attempt without considering it, with him being his vote? That counts for something I hope.
Serela was an easy bus. IHNN was an easy bus. Serela's only legitimate push was on IHNN. IHNN's only legitimate push was on Serela, bar Omba. ED1 IHNN was a case of cautious scum, LD1 IHNN was Die Serela Die with Omba on the backburner. His Serela jump remains the most likely bus, what with the inconsistent read and the need to get a stance ASAP.
BT sounds like he spent too much time at a bus despot. Not fond of this case full of non-sequiturs and effect without cause. Voting your fellow scumbuddy on page 5, D1, when there are valid competing wagons and without a plan to switch off, is extremely rude and suicidal even from me. I don't know why you are automatically assuming this when scum can fight the good fight a better way.
Really nothing to add. If Kilga or huhwhat are scum, they aren't making any mistakes thus far.
ninja'ed by claim
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The fact that you had him has your 2nd place suspect pretty much all day is there, but the same goes for me, so I can hardly see that aspect as pointing to you being scum.
For me, Serela was second to you, but ahead of NNR. For you, Serela was second to NNR. I preferred the scum lynch, you preferred the town lynch. This is why the two are different. That and I didn't switch from Person X with Serela as my second choice to Person Y with Serela as my second with an inadequate explanation as to why Person Y overtook Serela.
For all that this may be irrelevant given the claim.
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EBWOP: Uhhh... 'when there are very likely competing wagons'
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Would Omba really let Serela go do all that utterly stupid stuff if they were scum buddies? You'd think he'd either coordinate it better or just lynched him off on the spot? I do not believe Omba is scum. On top of that, i dont see how asking for the cop Counter claim is that much if a scumtell, especially since with a godmother still alive Cop isnt too powerful. I'll go post more stuff soon because phone reading is a pain.
Cuts: >_> Shadoweh that'll take a while because screw phone posting.
More cuts: Omba claimed what. I believe his claim, as trying to out a Voyeur is absolutely stupid for scum, and nothing short of a counter claim wi(ry.
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Would Omba really let Serela go do all that utterly stupid stuff if they were scum buddies?
This rationale is incongruous with your vote on Affinity.
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Would Omba really let Serela go do all that utterly stupid stuff if they were scum buddies? You'd think he'd either coordinate it better or just lynched him off on the spot? I do not believe Omba is scum. On top of that, i dont see how asking for the cop Counter claim is that much if a scumtell, especially since with a godmother still alive Cop isnt too powerful. I'll go post more stuff soon because phone reading is a pain.
Cuts: >_> Shadoweh that'll take a while because screw phone posting.
More cuts: Omba claimed what. I believe his claim, as trying to out a Voyeur is absolutely stupid for scum, and nothing short of a counter claim wi(ry.
A player who becomes an easy target because of doing scummy stuff has brought the lynch upon themselves for doing said scummy things. If someone is being scummy, they should be lynched. The current meta would rather make an excuse for the player as being 'an easy target' or 'does it every game, ignore'. If your normal play is scummy, then you will be shown it by being lynched every time.
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Care to explain the relation between these two quotes with a few words of your own, Neko?
Kilga: The reason I gave was for why I did not make use of the scumflip in the case on you. It was not a defense against the case on me.
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I feel like Omba's scumminess is attributed to him being scum, blowing it off as "But would a scumbuddy REALLY do that?" Is WIFOM and also a bad reason to toss the giant mound of suspicion to the wayside.
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I feel like Omba's scumminess is attributed to him being scum, blowing it off as "But would a scumbuddy REALLY do that?" Is WIFOM and also a bad reason to toss the giant mound of suspicion to the wayside.
You know that thing you asked me before about 'confirmed town theory'? There is guarenteed to be at least one Voyeur in this setup. If no one counterclaims Omba, Omba is guarenteed to be a Town Voyeur, as in confirmed town by default. Like PX said, the voyeur isn't as useful as the other roles right now for scum to out (I'd out the tracker personally). So Omba probably ain't gettin lynched no more.
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##Unvote
No one seems to be counterclaiming, therefore Omba is 99.99% town with scummy play LD1.
##Vote: PX
Hypocritical arguments/cases+what Kilga said+what I said after the BT wall. Would write more but don't really have time.
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no crumbs, Voyuering the player he wants lynched because ??? I'm sure your top scumpick will definitely get lynched SOMEHOW, if not targeted by the cop who'll confirm if he's scum anyway
sounds real legit to me
I suppose Ill be forced to reread though if nobody counterclaims.
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##Unvote
In the middle of DnD right now, so I'll only be reading along, not much posting.
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no crumbs, Voyuering the player he wants lynched because ??? I'm sure your top scumpick will definitely get lynched SOMEHOW, if not targeted by the cop who'll confirm if he's scum anyway
With the scum rolecop dead, the sole use of the voyeur is targeting a player that gets copped and/or tracked. To either break a claim if someone claims to be either and I know he -didn't- target that player on a night he claims to have done so.
Or to make someone somewhat more likely to be town if he gets targeted and there's no claim of a scum result afterwards. (Pretty weak because there's a 50/50 chance of a false negative for both roles currently).
Hence I needed to pick someone I thought was likely to get targeted and unlikely to get nightkilled (because getting tracked to the dude that gets killed -> pretty much definite lynch; incidentally I picked Pesco at first, good thing I changed my mind).
So yes, you are forced to re-read.
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I am pretty sure you know exactly what I'm referring to and implying there, Mr. Swing Vote.
If you're referring to something from a past game then I don't get it. Pretty sure I haven't made any swing votes this game either.
Anyway I'm off my train, will re-read later, but trusting of Omba's claim so far because no counterclaims.
##Unvote
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PX is the easy answer for a D2 lynch, but... well...
The more I look at BT the more irritated I am with his IHNN case.
Also, although he says here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg867419.html#msg867419) and here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg868742.html#msg868742) that he doesn't like the Omba case and 'takes issue with the wagon', he made no effort to defend a townread nearing a lynch.
He also didn't pass any judgement on the people on the Omba wagon, except for a passive gutjerk on Kilga, even to the point of disagreeing with Shadoweh's point on me.
While I'm okay with his switch to Serela yesterday, all the above makes me think that he's scum trying to distance himself from the Omba wagon and stuff, with a constant vote on IHNN.
##Unvote
##Vote: BT
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If you're referring to something from a past game then I don't get it. Pretty sure I haven't made any swing votes this game either.
Noooo, I'm refering to your behaviour at the end of Day 1. It's attention grabbing in the same vein as Omba but it's still weird and swingy.
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##Unvote
Will review PX and BT when I get home.
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Vote Count: Scarlet Devil Mansion In The Early Afternoon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcaGlb9krN8&feature=player_detailpage) edition
Affinity (2): Shadoweh, PX
BT (1): Affinity
Omba (1): NekoNekoRex
PX (1): IHNN
IHNN (1): BT
Kilgamayan (1): Omba
Not voting: Kilgamayan, huh what
You have ~10 hours remaining. With 10 in play, it takes 6 votes to launch.
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I might have to stay at school the next 8 hours or so. Dunno if I can get back home before the deadline.
I guess I'll just ##Vote PX for now.
-
Avoiding a prod
A post will come in due time
Ridiculously
busy
-
~5 hours remain.
-
Where does the time go O.O
I want to see either a BT or a PX lynch. Reasons have been given in older posts. I'm willing to vote either, but right now I'd prefer a PX lynch.
BT, I'm not getting lynched today. You should switch to PX since I know you're not voting yourself.
Neko: switch off Omba. No one has counterclaimed and it's been this long. Omba is not being lynched today.
Omba: Kilga is not being lynched today. Decide between BT and PX.
Shadoweh, PX: Affinity is probably not being lynched today. I don't think Affinity is the scum right now.
Kilga, HW: decide between PX/BT. We need a lynch.
-
Oh Christ, I don't think I'm going to be back home for deadline. This is what I get for assuming we'd have as much time to work with the actually important days as we did on Day 1.
I'll have to do a pseudo-reread in the car on the way home, I guess.
-
Still don't support BT lynch. Will read and compare PX and Affinity.
-
As it so happens I've had the time to read the thread once or twice. No joke. Have things to say on points made against me but that'll have to wait for a later date.
##Unvote
Fine, I'll concede that, after some more thought, bussing the rolecop instead of pushing for Omba's lynch during the ~5th page isn't the most logical scum thing out there. ... <_<
If it were up to me I'd vote Kilga right now. I stand behind "Omba's connection wagon had scum on it" and what I said earlier. Townclears here are easier to fathom than in IHNN's case, but that's because he's admittedly playing fine, so much that this vote would be in no small part based on gut.
Guess it's PX and Affinity. Former is nullurk and latter is guttown, but never read any of them in-depth. Fun. Preference at the moment is PX lynch, unsurprisingly. Let's see if I can whip anything up in less than an available one hour.
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Since Omba is unlikely to be scum, my read on BT stays on null for now. Currently PX is the only remaining suspect, so vote stays there until I see something that catches my attention.
-cut-
-
~3 hours remain.
-
Yeah, yeah, fine.
##Unvote
Ugh, so I have to choose between three wagons all with nonexistent posters. Lovely.
PX's reason for voting me is blegh, could see it as scum trying to make an easy counterwagon to attempt to ward off the wagon on Serela gaining steam, easily bought by people who rely less on :postfeelings: and more on :tangiblethings: ie Huhwhat, Pesco.
Affinity is eh for her support for my wagon based mostly on "offended by my hypocrisy" but considering she sat on Omba the whole time.
Can't support a BT lynch, his vote on Serela was vital to getting her lynched, can't see it being a bus when getting me lynched could have been decidedly easier.
I'll ##Vote: PX for now but I'm still not too sure yet.
Somehow this turned into a self-centered post. Huh.
-
PX #188: You said you would make another post. Where was this other post?
Why were you willing to throw IHNN to the side?
You still need to explain your townread of Serela. "I thought Neko was the scum" doesn't cut it since you said you could provide a defense of him. Since we're dealing with a scumflip it's important to know your thought process.
There are blips in his thought process here and there but my main two issues with PX are (a) his refusal to explain his Serela defense and (b) he completely disappeared after promising another post when his vote was on the counterwagon to scum. However, I don't actually think his initial Neko vote looks like an attempt to start a counterwagon, since there was no indication anybody but me would switch.
For now, I will ##Vote: Affinity (L-3). Earlier suspicions on him aren't quelled, interactions with Serela read a lot like weak distancing / prodding of scumbuddy (lots of questioning but Affinity never outright declares Serela scummy until it's clear he can't ignore the wagon) and the recent BT vote looks like an attempt to gain hipster cred by swaying away from the obvious targets. It doesn't make much sense from a town PoV - Affinity had called BT the "best non-Serela voter D1" (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg868568.html#msg868568), and had actual content related to Serela's scumflip in his PX vote, only now he's completely ignoring BT's position on the Serela wagon. Why was the PX vote worth dropping for a case that ignores flips entirely? We're not on D1 anymore, this reads as disconnect to me.
I read Kilga too
Small nitpicks here and there, but
Prefer Affinity
Biggest issue is that this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg867572.html#msg867572) let him later hop on any rising wagon, but he then put himself in a position where he couldn't vote Serela over Rex even after claim, so it's hard to hold against him. Nitpick 2: #182 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg867596.html#msg867596) bugs me because it's a misrep and the Invasion callback is an appeal to... something, when the comparision didn't really apply. I feel like Omba's D1 wasn't actually awful enough to deserve the amount of tunneling Kilga had on him, and that the antagonisms points were exaggerated (see what I said about Invasion reference). Nitpick 3: Excess town reads don't fully make sense, PX's effort is hard to gauge due to his posting style but how are Affinity and I putting in more effort than BT?
-
... Yeah. Not the kind of prosperous reading I thought it would be, but whatever. PX's D1 felt fine, but D2 is made up of nil but the half-arsed Affinity case and... what Affinity said about me distancing myself from the Omba wagon, only more extreme. (not that I agree with the accusation, hey) For instance, when I did it, it was because I thought the wagon was scum-motivated. PX has literally no reason for it.
Affinity's latest case on me is slightly detached from everything, what with "PX is easy but" and a psyduck.jpg worthy point about not defending my Omba townread when I clearly did while holding back, but yeah, aside from personal oddities he's better than PX.
##Vote PX
cut
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Town has reason to distance from the Omba wagon if they don't want to support it. Also half-arsed is a buzzword in this case since there's nothing really half-arsed about PX's Affinity case from what I can tell. Don't actually see why PX > Affinity for you.
-
Still prefer Kilga lynch, but since that's not happening... please take another look at him tomorrow. K?
##Unvote
##Vote Affinity (L-2)
Will be back before deadline.
-
Rereading PX and Affinity now. Will address things HW mentioned about me tomorrow: no time today.
-
Worth noting that PX is at L-1 by my count.
-
Worth noting that PX is at L-1 by my count.
L-2 by mine.
-
Vote Count: Emergency Kitty (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDbIYTPaSqA) edition
Affinity (4): Shadoweh, PX, huh what, Omba
PX (4): IHNN, NNR, BT, Raitaki
BT (1): Affinity
Not voting: Kilgamayan
You have ~2 hours remaining. With 10 in play, it takes 6 votes to launch.
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Too many blanket unvotes, not enough actually voting. I'm honestly not sure how I feel about the overwhelming support to lynch PX. It doesn't seem like anyone has actually made a case for it beyond 'it's PX and he lurks'. Even if he is scum I think people need to put more omph into it. (I also realize this is hypocritical since I haven't made a case on Affinity but etc)
I don't -think- Kilga is playing like scum at the moment, he seems to have a love for text walls of pretty as scum, but I do find some of his actions questionable. I'm not sure why he keeps trying to turn disagreements with me into dismissive acts of emotion, and when it's 2 for 2 so far I start to wonder if it's a scum dismissive tactic. Conq proved not too long ago that AtE attacks work just as well as a huge paragraph of :words:
Actually talking about Affinity: I hate being unsure, it seriously affects my case skills. I'm.. also not sure if he has any chance of being here to claim, which is worrying. I have at least found something I can present as a curiousity.
General consensus is that Rai was bad at the start and improved towards the end. In my cases against BT (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg866987.html#msg866987) and Omba I have made clear my stances against IHNN and Rai anyway, as town -weighted sides of the WIFOM.
Serela being on IHNN as the lynch-to-go feels scum-town. Guess IHNN can be cleared to some degree. And certainly, what huhwhat says fits their meta, and I'm in agreement with the myriad reasons available to lynch Omba. Omba even flirts with him D1, and I never liked his Rai push after some time.
Let me 'reread'.
It's pretty clear here that he seems to agree with the Omba lynch before rereading, so he goes to reread.
PX: Wasn't Omba a main lynch, and didn't I question him thoroughly and stuff? What makes you think this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg867664.html#msg867664) and this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg867609.html#msg867609) isn't scumhunting, or the very least, 'not showing interest in Serela' until end of D1? The verbosity?
Rarrrgh!
##Vote: PX
So he's voting for PX because.. PX voted him for not pushing Omba hard enough? How exactly did this make PX scum? This is visible OMGuS in the works and in retrospect it's hilarious that a wagon on PX got attention like this.
@PX: Didn't I say many many times that I found Omba's dragging out his Rai case too far to the point of voteparking? Which is enough of a scummy thing?
Isn't questioning the validity and sincerity of cases the first step to scumhunting? There are many examples of this anywhere, anyway, and I don't think you're thinking this through properly.
He's still voting PX as an indignant affront for suggesting that he's not scumhunting. The problem is it doesn't answer why he's not voting for Omba in the first place! He even says later that he's giving the newbies passes because of the way people (Omba) are pushing him. His vote off of PX makes very little sense either. Did PX improve? Does he not like being on wagons with other people? Earlier he was all over Omba, but he doesn't miss a beat in attacking BT for defending the Omba wagon and not pushing hard enough for a counterwagon.
I think my main problem is I still can't tell if this is Affinity being scummy or being adorable. I can't understand what he could be thinking, and in review his votes make no sense. I'm still willing to lynch.
-
...
...
<_<
The term half-arsed isn't one you can measure and define, but I probably did misuse it. I'm sure my reaction to PX's case was to say that, but now that I actually take a good look at it, it's more fair than I gave it credit for.
As for defending the wagon, there's usually motivation behind such an act. I can't find his. Saying he simply wanted to avoid a mislynch isn't wrong per-se, but in that case he didn't do anything to contribute to the discussion aside from trying to halt the wagon. I guess there's this too.
Omba's later posts do indeed look like he's Serela's buddy and trying to get him to look better/draw out the cop before he tried to bus him, but the one part that doesn't make sense to me is why Serela would self hammer instead of letting Omba hammer?
The question is kind of out of place. Also an example of bringing up a point against the wagon without any followup.
Although... <_< Judging from a few lines above, I need pillow. Going to try reading one last time to see if I missed anything else.
##Unvote
oh boy humongous cut
-
ohshit my haiku uhm
Oversleeping is
Really nice but you should not
sleep through deadline votes
-
If that one was directed at me, I nearly called it a day too. It's past midnight and I wake up in less than 7 hours. ^_^
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Whyyyy am I doing this to myself
have a haiku
I'm reading the thread
it's pretty damn boring hey
but I'm still awake
-
It's about Affinity actually! So it relates to the subject and stuff. It's totally hip and cool and doesn't show off my inability to make poems at all.
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Oh god fuck waking up early for long road trips. Koromo is here, and still on the van >_>
Reeeaaaaaadddddd
Cut and OH GOD IT'S DEADLINE
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:matsurismirk: was I the only one who noticed the day started with 48 hours?
-
PX less fake sounding freaking out more telling us why people shouldn't vote you.
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:matsurismirk: was I the only one who noticed the day started with 48 hours?
Neko except for D1 each day is only 48 hours as stated in the OP :hurr:
-
First, claim. Amae Koromo, Chocolate Townie (Vanilla). [Koromo loves you Edible] No link because phone
Serela, his post 152 he keeps his vote on IHNN even though he was getting voted for it, instead of jumping on the emerging Omba wagon that was happening. Okay, he kind of supported it but still tried to push for IHNN scum. That I saw as town motivated as I thought that scum would stop trying to push a case that earned nothing but votes on them.
As for that post that didn't happen, I was too tired for Logical Mafia when I got back <_<
More cuts ahhhhhh
-
Caught up, real post incoming.
MULTI-WINDOW ACTION WHEE
-
##Vote Affinity
Yes, this is that one day in which I flip my reads at least twice.
PX just feels a lot more solid now and meanwhile there are some points being made. In particular, the stance on the Omba wagon between D1 and D2. Let's just say I feel inspired and stuff, because I honestly lack the time and this is where my gut is heading now.
Bed.
or not bed because PX posts
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Oh right, throwing IHNN vote off. He was posting cases and reads and looked less interesting to lynch, and his interactions with Pesco were getting good reads so I wanted more between the two.
-
Hmmm ok. I'll let PX off for now. ##Unvote
Haven't done proper rereads on IHNN and Affinity yet because of interruptions from DnD and then sleep and then school and then math and whatnot >_> Let me finish all this messath real quick and I'll consider the Affinity wagon.
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Vote Count: ONE FLIPPER ROLL (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96vnlEMbscs) edition
Affinity (5): Shadoweh, PX, huh what, Omba, BT
PX (2): IHNN, NNR
BT (1): Affinity
Affinity is at L-1!
Not voting: Kilgamayan, Raitaki
You have less than 1 hour remaining. With 10 in play, it takes 6 votes to launch.
-
Reading from my phone
Not the optimal method
But it's all I've got
So I still like Affinity's Day 1, though I admit this may be because of how closely it mirrored mine. Still, he had a stated preference for the Serela wagon over the NNR wagon.
PX/Serela Day 1 stuff has been discussed and does indeed look bad. Affinity's observation at the end of his #367 is a particularly noteworthy point against PX.
As for Day 2, I find the thread of PX question "why would Serela self-hammer instead of letting Omba hammer" -> my response question "What town credit would Omba have gained from hammering Serela after Serela goofed" -> PX response(?) question "Would Omba really let Serela do all that stupid stuff if they were buddies" very unimpressive. The second question is faulty on its own because his Affinity vote meant he believed Affinity WOULD let Serela do all that stupid stuff and I don't think there's any reason to believe that's the case. In addition, if the second question was indeed a follow-up to the first, then it's a non-sequitur, and if it isn't, then it means PX jettisoned a bad justification for another bad justification. Either way, it reads strongly as someone that knew Omba was town and was trying to get creit for claiming Omba was town while Omba was under heavy fire.
Affinity's BT vote seems completely out of left field, in that I can't figure out what kind of motivation is behind it. I do not fault him too much for his PX vote, though; Omba was at L-2 already at that point, so I can understand not actually voting Omba then even if he wanted to. That it was a vote apparently entirely founded on PX's most recent post and not D1 stuff is bizarre and makes it look OMGUSy, but there's OMGUS and then there's OMGUS, if that makes any sense.
I don't think either are perfectly clean but I think PX's approach to Serela and Omba are scummier than anything Affinity has done.
##Vote: PX
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Hmmm ok. I'll let PX off for now. ##Unvote
Haven't done proper rereads on IHNN and Affinity yet because of interruptions from DnD and then sleep and then school and then math and whatnot >_> Let me finish all this messath real quick and I'll consider the Affinity wagon.
In all seriousness. Why. Why are you letting him off. What are YOUR thoughts on this? You need to actually tell us what you're thinking. Otherwise you are eventually going to get lynched when people realize they can push a case on you just because you're not saying anything.
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As for Affinity, his D1 feels just a bit passive, he asks a few alright questions here and there, and takes care to talk about the main wagons, but his total abstinence from all NNR discussion is suspicious. /copypasta
In all seriousness, I did address his D1 earlier. His D2 consists of throwing out town clears to everyone and then going to the two people not at deadline by what seems to be PoE. His case on me, which is worded above, comes after an OMGuS vote on me, which he then discards for a BT case. Even though he's telling people to vote me. Overall, he's not really trying to push scum and shows passive scum hunting.
And Haiku
Koromo loved you
After the setting hellball
My full moon rises
Cuts, phone posting sucks
-
EBWOP: Koromo loves you
Stupid auto correct
-
[mathdelay]
@Shadoweh: Because the major quirk I saw in him was the lack of a post for almost a full day further elaborating on his opinions on the bandwagons present at the time in #188 (think that's the number) after dropping his case against IHNN, claiming he had "other things to press" and promising to reread and post later. He claims irl stuff, I can't really counter that and I don't feel that the manner he questioned other players is not incriminating enough by themselves, so I'm dropping my vote against him for now.
Can anyone spare the time to explain to me (or link an explanation to) what benefit whatsoever there is to claim VT? It only serves to help scum narrow down the possible town power roles, and TBH I don't think a VT claim is very good at convincing other players from lynching you. I myself just shrug off VT claims and press on with my vote unless a better case appears against another person or whatever suspicions I had are sufficiently cleared.
-
If a VT fakeclaims a power role it risks drawing a counterclaim out of the woodwork, which gives scum info without scum having to trade one of their own for it.
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Townies can't counterclaim Vanilla
-
Also fakeclaiming is for teh scums
Lynch All Liars
-
20 minutes.
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If a VT fakeclaims a power role it risks drawing a counterclaim out of the woodwork, which gives scum info without scum having to trade one of their own for it.
imo it's still better for VT to not claim at all and try to dissuade their wagon or get someone else lynched first. Even if that fails. Except if said townie is a fairly competent player and is adept at hunting people that actually are scum. But even in that case there is still nothing making their claim credible.
-doubleNekocut-
No my main point is a VT claim is both easy to make and almost impossible to prove, so the way I see it it doesn't really have credibility. Then what is the utility in claiming if you're a VT?
Also you know what, gonna continue this in the other mafia thread.
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Aaargh damn got distracted from rereading Affinity D: QUICK SOMEONE POST SOMETHING FAST TO MAKE ME DECIDE WHETHER TO HAMMER HIM (or just hammer him if you feel it's right...)
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You claim as a VT as town to let us know you aren't a power role.
You claim as a VT as scum because you're risking being able to turn the lynch around.
We have 20 minutes, please don't get distracted by semantics when we need to know if you gonna vote Affinity or if we're kicking PX off a cliff.
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lulz cut.
YOUR CHOICES ARE PX OR AFFINITY. VOTE ONE OF THEM. THE POWER IS YOURS.
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Shadoweh plz thoughts on PX's attempts to push Town Omba position today as outlined in my #459?
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Not sure how I feel about PX now. He doesn't give off much o a Townie On The Ropes attitude but his attempt as scumhunting seems sincere enough. Phone posting may inhibit the former.
BT trying to fall asleep on deadline is weird, but not worth more then a remark.
Would be nice to see an Affinity claim but he's disappeared too.
Technically I have the power too since I never came to a decent conclusion on who's scum, Shadoweh
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I ALREADY SAID I'M LETTING PX OFF FOR NOW. AND BEsIDES I DOUBT ANY OTHER WAGON CAN REACH HAMMER BEFORE 20 MINS.
You know what, YOU GUYS HAMMER IF YOU WANT I'M NOT GONNA. Unless...
@modquestion: What happens if no hammer is reached by end of Day? And what does Rocks Fall And You Will Die Entail?
[edible]If a majority lynch is not reached by the end of the day, the game ends immediately and everyone loses.
Have a nice day~[/edible]
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Herk, well then.
-
As for Day 2, I find the thread of PX question "why would Serela self-hammer instead of letting Omba hammer" -> my response question "What town credit would Omba have gained from hammering Serela after Serela goofed" -> PX response(?) question "Would Omba really let Serela do all that stupid stuff if they were buddies" very unimpressive. The second question is faulty on its own because his Affinity vote meant he believed Affinity WOULD let Serela do all that stupid stuff and I don't think there's any reason to believe that's the case. In addition, if the second question was indeed a follow-up to the first, then it's a non-sequitur, and if it isn't, then it means PX jettisoned a bad justification for another bad justification. Either way, it reads strongly as someone that knew Omba was town and was trying to get creit for claiming Omba was town while Omba was under heavy fire.
I thought the question about why Serela wouldn't let Omba hammer was a good one. Even if we don't think it gives much town cred the hammerer does tend to get a little boost. Affinity is from what I've seen a pretty hands off scumbuddy. He probably would let Serela do all that stupid stuff. Omba would have bee more staring in the QT. I'm also not sure if PX would have so fiercely avoided going after Serela if he thought he was being that terrible.
-
Gak.
why do i suddenly have the feeling px waited before claiming to force us to nom affinity or die
Edible was that srs D:
-
10 minutes~
Edible was that srs D:
Yes. Don't bully No Lynch-tan.
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Maybe under normal circumstances, but do you really think the hammerer would be any townier after the lynched scum claimed their fakeclaiming strategy?
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Gak.
why do i suddenly have the feeling px waited before claiming to force us to nom affinity or die
Edible was that srs D:
ON THE POST TRAIN
TO IDIOT TOWN
CHOOOOO CHOOOOO!!!!
[edible]Last warning.[/edible]
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I was making a refrence to myself,
Nobody take that as directed towards them
-
Frankly I think anyone snap-voting him at that instant would have gotten applause.
If you have that feeling Raitaki then Vote for PX. If you aren't going to then we can't lynch PX and arguing about it is pointless. Otherwise it's STOP HAMMER TIME
-
5 minutes~
-
FIEN
##VOTE PX
Not like it matters
-
How does voting a claimed scum give anyone town credit? I seriously cannot fathom where you are coming from on this. Do we expect scum to not vote for claimed scum?
-
votecount?
I was AFK until now.
-
Uh, that still only puts PX at 3 votes, doesn't it?
Still prefer Affinity lynch.
-
Not seeing Affinity as scummy but obviously that's better than auto-game over.
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Vote Count: No time to look up an adorable video edition
Affinity (5): Shadoweh, PX, huh what, Omba, BT
PX (4): IHNN, NNR, Kilgamayan, Raitaki
BT (1): Affinity
Affinity is at L-1!
PX is at L-2!
Not voting: Nobody!
You have less than 4 minutes remaining. With 10 in play, it takes 6 votes to launch.
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Also just saying that I'm satisfied with PX's responses to my questioning and his Vanilla claim.
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k at 6:51 I'll switch to Affinity to secure a lynch if necessary.
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3 minutes. Vote Affinity.
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He didn't techncally claim scum, as much as he might as well have. You could still write it off as Serela.
If huh what isn't going to jump we don't have the votes to push the other way.
-
I feel like more of an idiot now then ever
I'll switch too if I have to
-
2 MINUTES UNTIL GROUND ZERO
HURRY
-
Someone JUST DO IT
YOU COULD DO IT YOURSELF YOU FRICKIN GOOFBALL
-
##Unvote
##Vote: Affinity
I think this will hit town but we can recover from a mislynch. Not so much Rocks Fall Everyone Dies.
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hammershutup
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"That squirrel is adorable!"
"I think it deserves a vacation!"
"But all it's been doing is shivering..."
"IT'S SO CUTE IT'S SUSPICIOUSLY IN NEED OF A VACATION"
"Okay ;_;"
Affinity, playing a baby flying squirrel trying to keep warm (http://i.imgur.com/WeI4q.jpg), Town Tracker, has been given an all-expenses-paid vacation to the Hall Of Retired Adorable Things!
It is now Night 2. Don't forget, everyone still in play needs to send me a PM! You have 24 hours to do so~
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MIIIIIDNIIIIIGHT
NOT A SOUND FROM THE NO-NAME
HAS THE COP LOST HIS MEEEEMORYYYYY
HE IS VACATIONING ALONE
IN THE LAMPLIGHT
THE ONE-WAY BUS TICKETS COLLECT AT MY FEET
AND THE TOWN
BEGINS TO MOOOAN
I have no name, playing a pile of kappas (http://i.imgur.com/OZNDS.jpg), Town Rogue Cop, was given a permanent leave of absence!
It is now Day 3. You have 48 hours to choose a majority launch target.
With 8 alive, it takes 5 to launch.
//
POST RESTRICTION OF THE DAY
Each time you ##vote or ##unvote in thread, your post must include one MotK emoticon for each ##vote/##unvote. They may be placed anywhere in the post.
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:3
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Bah. (http://i.imgur.com/sMgei.jpg)
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Bleh, rereading
Have some gut on HW at the moment but won't vote until I get done with this reread
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Haven't re-read yet, but it'd be pretty cool if Raitaki could explain why the fuck he implied a lack of a VT PM when he wasn't a power role.
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Rereading because purple haze floated all through my brain overnight and made me rethink some things. Recent flips have also given me pause for thought.
While we wait, a little easy-to-cook-up something for my (and everyone else's) reference:
Serela (7): NekoNekoRex, Shadoweh, IHNN, BT, Pesco, Raitaki, Serela
NekoNekoRex (3): PX, Omba, huh what
Omba (2): Kilgamayan, Affinity
Affinity (6): Shadoweh, PX, huh what, Omba, BT, IHNN
PX (3): NNR, Kilgamayan, Raitaki
BT (1): Affinity
Particularly curious what huh what thinks of this chart, if it makes him think anything meaningful. (Not a trick question or anything, I promise)
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Haven't re-read yet, but it'd be pretty cool if Raitaki could explain why the fuck he implied a lack of a VT PM when he wasn't a power role.
I implied nothing.
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EBWOP: **of the sort.
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Rereading because purple haze floated all through my brain overnight and made me rethink some things. Recent flips have also given me pause for thought.
While we wait, a little easy-to-cook-up something for my (and everyone else's) reference:
Serela (7): NekoNekoRex, Shadoweh, IHNN, BT, Pesco, Raitaki, Serela
NekoNekoRex (3): PX, Omba, huh what
Omba (2): Kilgamayan, Affinity
Affinity (6): Shadoweh, PX, huh what, Omba, BT, IHNN
PX (3): NNR, Kilgamayan, Raitaki
BT (1): Affinity
Particularly curious what huh what thinks of this chart, if it makes him think anything meaningful. (Not a trick question or anything, I promise)
The obvious thing I note is that HW and PX both have votes on townie wagons
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Gutjerk reaction is to either assume Kilga/PX or bussing. I've been curious about Shadoweh bussing for a while but didn't have anything too concrete so never brought it up. It'd explain the Pesco kill if the kills aren't just RNG'd. I also definitely want to give Rai another lookover given that he basically claimed he didn't have a VT PM and used this as an excuse to not vote Serela.
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And would you still assume myself/PX given how yesterday played out?
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Particularly curious what huh what thinks of this chart, if it makes him think anything meaningful. (Not a trick question or anything, I promise)
But you don't want to know what the person who stares at votecounts thinks? Jerk. (I was in the middle of making one of these too)
I do have a question relating to them. By studying the votecounts, and sheerly the votecounts, what's your opinion on Raitaki?
The idea that I would have found Pesco scary enough to kill Day 1 is insulting. >_>
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I also definitely want to give Rai another lookover given that he basically claimed he didn't have a VT PM and used this as an excuse to not vote Serela.
You mean the vs. Neko's claim thing?
That lasted like 30 minutes.
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@Kilga: Not too certain, since I haven't re-read yet and I'm pre-occupied at the moment. I don't think it's particularly unlikely, though, since after BT switched it would've been pretty hard to make the PX lynch actually happen. I wouldn't be surprised if there was scum on the PX wagon just to distance themself from Affinity's flip, regardless of PX's alignment.
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Shadowert: That's a hard question to answer because in what little re-reading I had been able to do before the day began (and what I've done since), part of it was looking through Raitaki's posts, so my judgment is already colored by that (not to mention we both know there's more to this sort of decision-making than that). To answer your question as best I can, being on Serela Day 1 and PX Day 2 suggests a townie.
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Not your end-day only votecounts. The actual stream of consciousness movement votecounts. We don't know if PX is town or not so being on him could be just as guilty as being on Affinity. There are currently no flipped scum on Serela besides himself.
This might seem like a semantic question but I'm curious. Why did you color NNR as green but yourself as blue?
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I made myself blue because the chart was half for me and half for everyone else, so while I wanted to mark myself to myself I thought coloring myself green in a chart I intended to post would be uncouth.
Also blue is the best color.
NNR is green because he's town.
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The answer to the other question is more pertinent to my interests, not just from the standpoint of questioning you. I simply find it curious that you would consider someone else unflipped more town then you. I consider it a curiousity for now.
Gutjerk reaction is to either assume Kilga/PX or bussing. I've been curious about Shadoweh bussing for a while but didn't have anything too concrete so never brought it up. It'd explain the Pesco kill if the kills aren't just RNG'd. I also definitely want to give Rai another lookover given that he basically claimed he didn't have a VT PM and used this as an excuse to not vote Serela.
So which are you assuming? A quick look over the votecount says that Kilga/PX from your standpoint is the only option besides bussing. Why did you make the distinction without saying which option you prefer?
Why does Kilgamayan bussing PX on Day 2 but not Serela on Day 1 make sense?
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The answer to your other question involves going back and checking all the votecounts throughout both days, which I don't have time for as I am presently preoccupied with rereading and writing something else. I am curious why you think I think NNR is townier than me, though. I know I'm town better than everyone else in the game, but the rest of the game has more reason to think NNR town than they do to think me town.
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If you had doubts about him you would have put him in blue like yourself.
Here, this is the particular votecount area that I'm thinking about.
Vote Count: Karkat (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdROu4LlR1E) edition
NekoNekoRex (6): PX, Pesco, huh what, Omba, Serela, Raitaki
Serela (4): NekoNekoRex, Shadoweh, IHNN, BT
Omba (2): Kilgamayan, Affinity
NekoNekoRex is at L-1!
You have ~2.5 hours remaining. With 12 in play, it takes 7 votes to launch.
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I think Kilga put his name in blue to identify he was, in fact, Kilga
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What? No I wouldn't. I explained why blue was reserved for me. I gave it to myself for reasons that are not applicable to NNR (or anyone else) because I and not NNR (or anyone else) have access to my role PM.
Looking back at when that vote count came and recall which vote of his put NNR there, I had brushed that vote aside as overeager newbie who thought he had caught something damning. I still believe that was the case for that vote. The sentiment behind the vote at least somewhat matches the style of play he's accustomed to, if those other games he's linked are any indication. Are you trying to suggest it was a failed attempt at some sort of bizarre scum-rushed lynch, given Serela was the vote right before his? Off the top of my head, I can't think of anything that can be gleaned from the L-1 vote for a townie in a vacuum.
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Why did you make the distinction without saying which option you prefer?
Because I haven't re-read to figure this out yet? <_< When I say something is a GUTJERK REACTION it is a GUTJERK REACTION, not my final stance.
Why does Kilgamayan bussing PX on Day 2 but not Serela on Day 1 make sense?
PX lynch wasn't actually too likely to go through at that point.
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I'm pretty stumped right now. Don't really read anyone as scum ;_; Well except Omba, but since nobody counter-claimed I'd have to assume he's really town for now.
NNR is pretty much confirmed town by this point, as he was the first to claim VT and provide flavor that appears to be different from every other role's, then had his flavor approved by Pesco, the only flipped VT/CIC to this point. It's highly unlikely that NNR made up the flavor descriptor, and near impossible that he was able to obtain information about VT's flavor descriptors.
Also we only have 1 power role left. Things have stopped looking good for town.
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All right, so here's the deal.
Position: At least one of Shadoweh and huh what is scum.
Evidence: The combination of the nature of the setup, D1 being a scum lynch, the two NKs so far, and the black names in that vote tally
Disclaimer 1: I am fully aware that people may believe the following is applicable to myself as well.
Disclaimer 2: This whole post might ramble a bit, things are mostly not organized any really special way and it's been hard to stay this focused for this long.
Disclaimer 3: None of this is intended to insult anyone.
The combination of the nature of the setup and the D1 scum lynch tells me RNG kills are out. Even forgetting that they almost never happen anyway, Day 1 ended with scum a man down and one all-but-confirmed townie in NNR, and due to the open nature of the setup we already have a second such person in Omba. That's two unlynchable living players in two days; scum simply can't afford to NK willy-nilly because it greatly increases the risk of getting caught via PoE. (Also, I don't think a remaining scum team comprised of two non-Shadoweh non-HW black names would think to try RNGing anyway.)
Of particular note is the IHNN kill; with the unlynchables in play in addition to a few generically quality players still alive, there's no way in hell IHNN gets offed because he's a threat as a player. He wasn't at the top of many (if any) scum lists, but he wasn't as unlynchable as others and he was not the greatest case-maker. The conclusion is thus that scum figured out he was the rogue cop without the benefit of the roleclop. And, again, looking at that list, I don't see two non-Shadoweh non-HW black names reaching that conclusion with such confidence that they'd kill him.
Main case next post; it is super long and even I get bored reading it but it's one of those "multitude of lesser things" cases and I wanted to cover everything I can think of.
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##Vote: Shadoweh :o
(Time to play to Shadoweh's scum meta of me!!!)
~The Pesco Kill~
Contrary to her statement in #511, I would be fully unsurprised by Shadoweh NKing Pesco N1. Shadoweh can play the logic game but she plays it less than, say, huh what or myself. She plays more of a feeling game, which can actually prey on the logic game if done well enough (as the logic game is abusable by opponents to a degree). Pesco, however, is the hardest player on MotK to bullshit. If there was anyone in this game that would catch onto Scum Shadoweh antics it would be him. Taking him out and playing the remaining players like violins was/is a very viable Scum Shadoweh strategy, given her playstyle and the playstyles of the remaining players allowed for it.
~"Curiosities"/Affinity case~
This part of Shadoweh's Serela-based assessment of why Omba was likely town is worth highlighting:
Omba is doing something really -silly-. Not scummy, silly. This is not how he talks about someone he knows is scum. This is how you talk about some townie who is doing a really funny thing you're watching.
Shadoweh has now not once but twice highlighted something and called it a "curiosity". In both cases it appears to be highlighted in an attempt to cast a negative light on the player in question and in both cases I don't see the argument. Seems very much like how Scum Shadoweh might talk about a townie who is doing a really funny thing.
The first "curiosity" (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg869277.html#msg869277) was Affinity voting PX because PX said Affinity didn't try pushing the Omba lynch. I had no problem with Affinity's countervote here because I thought Affinity did more pushing of Omba than anything else on Day 1, and being attacked with a garbage cases is a legitimate reason for a countervote. Painting the vote as OMGUS was downright wrong. The next part criticized Affinity for not explaining why he wasn't voting Omba to begin with, with is an unfair criticism because Omba was at L-2 at the time so it should have been obvious why Affinity wasn't voting him. Then the switch off of PX to BT is brought up and said to "make no sense", which I agreed with at the time but ultimately didn't decide was scummy because I couldn't find the scum motivation behind it either. There's basically mention of why it's scummy, though, only that it makes no sense. There's a couple of questions tacked on that don't imply Affinity's actions are scummy by themselves. The addition to the Affinity case is effectively that he's being weird and therefore he's scummy.
The second curiosity just happened about ten posts ago and I think anyone that read my explanation of the blue (or even stopped to consider why the colorings would even matter that much) can see how well it fits the criteria of "some townie who is doing a really funny thing you're watching".
But speaking of the Affinity case, it's worth pointing out that it didn't appear to be very strong to begin with and she needed to be reminded Affinity existed before she even cast the vote (one would think a townie that had brutalized Serela would have spent some part of the night rereading how the wagons shook down and finding a reasonable suspect to open Day 2 with). She also doesn't push him at all the entire day until #443, which barely counts anyway. The entire Affinity "case" was Shadoweh coasting on D1 cred instead of trying to scumhunt.
~Serela The Ponymobile Except Not Serelly?~
This turned out to be less of a point than I originally imagined since my reread of the stuff surrounding it didn't match what I remembered, but it is worth noting that Shadoweh calls Serela the scum pony more than once (once D1, once D2) but still spends all of Day 2 looking at people that he avoided and/or people that avoided him. Not earth-shattering, but still an incongruity I wouldn't expect from a townie thought process. I'd have figured Town Shadoweh with a Serelapony mentality would have gone into Day 2 at least with a mind to also inspect the Serela wagon for weaker votes that could have been busses, if not investigating such things overnight. Especially given the first reference to Serelapony, in #207, unironically includes "scum are the best at catching other scum". (How true a sentiment, should Shadoweh flip scum.)
~Other Things~
I've noticed Shadoweh say a couple things that, like the whole "curiosities" bit, seem more oriented to convey a sense of negativity toward their target than actually argue the ideas. Examples:
You must have missed me and Kilga saying that a counterclaim, if it existed, was not worth revealing.
I'm not arguing that they should. If I didn't think he was faking I wouldn't still be pushing for his lynch. It doesn't make sense from the point of view of someone who could claim and be ~*~Confirmed Town~*~ that they'd be so worried about people not believing them. I also have no reason to trust that you and Kilga are acting in town's best interests.
Bolding mine. What is the purpose of this? If Pesco and I had simply said "A counterclaim is not worth revealing" and left it at that, then yes, the bolded is applicable. When we (or at least I) explained why it was not worth revealing, though? Town doesn't handwave "why"s on the grounds that the source(s) is/are not 100% reliable, it addresses what's wrong with the reasoning, which Shadoweh did not do here.
In reference to the Omba cases:
It seems like he's being used as a scapegoat for everyone's rage at opposing the scumwagon.
I've already brought this up in regards to my case, but it equally did not apply to huh what's case, at the very least. (Go back and reread #341 and find the part of his case that's based on "rage at opposing the scumwagon".) It's a needless blanket dismissal of all the Omba cases based on the construction of some of them (the argument could easily be made that it did apply to IHNN's vote and NNR's vote).
And just from today:
The idea that I would have found Pesco scary enough to kill Day 1 is insulting. >_>
I've already gone over why Scum Shadoweh killing Pesco N1 is a very possible course of action. This response to the idea when it was first proposed is designed to dissuade the idea on emotion more than on logic.
There is also the end of Day 2 stuff, where I honestly don't think Shadoweh seriously believes someone would receive town credit for hammering scum after the scum posted their fake claiming strategy and was probably arguing the point just to rile me up and disrupt the logic game further after the Omba case I felt really strongly about blew up so spectacularly (see earlier references to how the feelings came can abuse the logic game - this is one of those instances).
tl;dr there is no tl;dr to this case because it's a fuckton of little things, sorry. It is now past my bedtime so I will have to address the things that were addressed at me on Day 2 tomorrow (sorry!). Want to give town maximum time to digest all this.
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The conclusion is thus that scum figured out he was the rogue cop without the benefit of the roleclop.
Propose we use this typo to refer to Serelapony for the rest of the game.
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Actually before I go to bed there is one thing that was brought up against me that I should address, since it is relevant to my case.
Nitpick 2: #182 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg867596.html#msg867596) bugs me because it's a misrep and the Invasion callback is an appeal to... something, when the comparision didn't really apply. I feel like Omba's D1 wasn't actually awful enough to deserve the amount of tunneling Kilga had on him, and that the antagonisms points were exaggerated (see what I said about Invasion reference).
This was bad and a mistake on my part, one to which I will readily admit. At the time I only really half-read Omba's post because I was frustrated that I had to explain those concepts at all and then further frustrated that someone argued them because I think they should be one of the foundations of Mafia (somewhat in terms of gameplay, but mostly out of common courtesy that people should simply not actively be dicks to each other). It is true that Omba was not saying those things were good for town as my post implied they did, but good for him as an individual player.* So yes, this was a fuckup on my part, and I have no excuse for not reading it and responding to it with a clear mind.
*(Even ignoring the general common courtesy of not being dicks to each other, I would argue that any personal benefit he nets is outweighed by the damage done to his faction, because if town loses no individual townies lose more or less than other townies based on being more right or wrong. But such a discussion is better served for postgame.)
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Oh yeah, before we forgot Omba post the results of your last night's action. You've already claimed the last townie power role alive, it's unlikely you'll survive another night anyways.
Also HW why did you assume I claimed to have a power role?
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::) Will address text wall later. Did you at least answer my question?
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I'm pretty sure I don't want Kilga lynched anymore, got an explanation for a lot of things that bugged me about him.
Also Shadoweh #529 is telling me to vote her. I know that pattern, although not from you. :V
Shadoweh, better get to addressing it.
Raitaki: No result again. Doesn't matter anyway because the cop is dead. (There are no more roles with active abilities in the game, so I'm now in essence a VT).
Also, scum are generally given safeclaims (a claim that is guarenteed not to be in the game); in an open setup, that would be a VT one with corresponding original flavor.
NNR's likely town anyway because counter-wagon to flipped scum.
Mod: Can we use the same emoticons in multiple posts? (Mainly asking because otherwise we can only vote/unvote a limited number of times).
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My name is not Conqueror. I do actually try to get to things. (I'm still cooking though)
Kilga you dope, I kill the person I think is townest Day 1. Considering what I said about you, who do you think I would have killed?
And I see you did answer the question. I'm asking because I thought it looked strange and wanted a second opinion on it. Rereading the 'omg cats' logic you're probably right and he's probably town. I'm just getting flashbacks to this one time I dismissed a newbie's 'stupidity' and we lost because of it.
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I'm suffering from some serious sleep deprivation so I apologize if this doesn't sound well thought out. I don't think there's enough time to wait to respond and go ahead with my own day plan. I shall accept your invitation to duel and determine your alignment through riposte.
I already addressed ~The Pesco Kill~ in my previous post. Your argument implies that you think you would be weaker to my feelings then Pesco would, is this correct? In you assertation that only I or huh what (or yourself) would think to use an RNG, why do you forget that PX exists? PX has been on every scumteam bar the last one that used RNG kills since I've been playing. There isn't much I can do to refute this since it's based around the theory that I'm a psychic vampire.
I will offer a counter-theory. IHNN could have been killed because he was pursuing scum. The fact that he was a cop could have been as lucky a shot as the Innocent Child.
~"Curiosities"/Affinity case~
Shadoweh has now not once but twice highlighted something and called it a "curiosity". In both cases it appears to be highlighted in an attempt to cast a negative light on the player in question and in both cases I don't see the argument. Seems very much like how Scum Shadoweh might talk about a townie who is doing a really funny thing.
For the record, it's highlighted because it's something I find suspicious but can't quite reason out why. Weird is a good word for it. I don't think I point out 'funny things townies do' in thread as scum.
The first "curiosity" (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg869277.html#msg869277) was Affinity voting PX because PX said Affinity didn't try pushing the Omba lynch. I had no problem with Affinity's countervote here because I thought Affinity did more pushing of Omba than anything else on Day 1, and being attacked with a garbage cases is a legitimate reason for a countervote. Painting the vote as OMGUS was downright wrong. The next part criticized Affinity for not explaining why he wasn't voting Omba to begin with, with is an unfair criticism because Omba was at L-2 at the time so it should have been obvious why Affinity wasn't voting him. Then the switch off of PX to BT is brought up and said to "make no sense", which I agreed with at the time but ultimately didn't decide was scummy because I couldn't find the scum motivation behind it either. There's basically mention of why it's scummy, though, only that it makes no sense. There's a couple of questions tacked on that don't imply Affinity's actions are scummy by themselves. The addition to the Affinity case is effectively that he's being weird and therefore he's scummy.
Though we know he was being legitimate now, I still think Affinity's vote was OMGUS based. It's easy for town to be over-defensive, especially when you're a power role. His entire case against PX was that Affinity was hunting legitimately so PX shouldn't have been voting him. He didn't go into what PX had done that was scummy other then this one act. If that's not OMGUS then what is exactly? My observation about how Affinity should have been voting Omba ..admittedly didn't take that into account. I didn't realize he would have been putting Omba at L-1 at the time. As for the third, you're repeating my own observation. I wasn't sure if it was scummy or not. But it was something strange enough for me to pursue. Ultimately I should have realized him not being here to claim at all would have made running PX up a better lynch regardless.
The second curiosity just happened about ten posts ago and I think anyone that read my explanation of the blue (or even stopped to consider why the colorings would even matter that much) can see how well it fits the criteria of "some townie who is doing a really funny thing you're watching".
It's not a matter of amusement. I find it strange that you would go out of your way not to mark yourself as confirmed town but mark your near-100% town read as confirmed town. It's like you're downplaying yourself. Let me put it another way. Why aren't you obvtown? Your play is alot like when you were the tracker last game, but you're just some vanilla, so why does it feel like you've been holding back?
But speaking of the Affinity case, it's worth pointing out that it didn't appear to be very strong to begin with and she needed to be reminded Affinity existed before she even cast the vote (one would think a townie that had brutalized Serela would have spent some part of the night rereading how the wagons shook down and finding a reasonable suspect to open Day 2 with). She also doesn't push him at all the entire day until #443, which barely counts anyway. The entire Affinity "case" was Shadoweh coasting on D1 cred instead of trying to scumhunt.
Is it really so hard to think I was hoping that maybe, just maybe, ramming a scum lynch and being obviously town for it might earn me a Night 1 kill? Do you know how absolutely maddening it is that they killed fucking Pesco instead? There is literally nothing I can do that comes off threatening. I've been refraining from commenting about my feelings this game. But I'm already getting tangental thinking about it. I did reread the wagons overnight though, and I'll explain my thoughts on that in the next paragraph. Affinity was someone I suspected in part because of his pursual of Omba to the exclusion of all else and because despite how you agree with it, his PX vote was really, really strange.
~Serela The Ponymobile Except Not Serelly?~
This turned out to be less of a point than I originally imagined since my reread of the stuff surrounding it didn't match what I remembered, but it is worth noting that Shadoweh calls Serela the scum pony more than once (once D1, once D2) but still spends all of Day 2 looking at people that he avoided and/or people that avoided him. Not earth-shattering, but still an incongruity I wouldn't expect from a townie thought process. I'd have figured Town Shadoweh with a Serelapony mentality would have gone into Day 2 at least with a mind to also inspect the Serela wagon for weaker votes that could have been busses, if not investigating such things overnight. Especially given the first reference to Serelapony, in #207, unironically includes "scum are the best at catching other scum". (How true a sentiment, should Shadoweh flip scum.)
I spent the night looking over the Serela wagon to figure out who was at the rodeo, but.. well look at it from my perspective.
Serela (7): NekoNekoRex, Shadoweh, IHNN, BT, Pesco, Raitaki, Serela
The three original people who jumped Serela after my case came out various degrees of obvtown. Neko for the push, IHNN for Serela trying to push him like a donkey, and Raitaki for CATS. Pesco died. And I'm the town that sent that wagon off the cliff for you naysayers so suck it. Literally the only person on here to make sense as scum is the guy who made sure it happened in the end, so I thought perhaps it would be better to pursue off-wagon. On top of that, going into today, the scum aren't afraid to kill on-wagon. Either BT didn't think about it or the only scum on the wagon is Serela and they froze the wagon to get us hunting for bussing scum that doesn't exist.
~Other Things~ AKA sniping at Pesco
I am not sure how much clearer I can make this. I thought Pesco was scummy. I thought him borrowing you as credit in an argument with me was scummy. My statement at the time stands, I had no reason to assume either of you were thinking of the town instead of hoping we would lynch the cop for being Serela. Because even if I believed in my case I couldn't be sure I was -right- until the flip.
In reference to the Omba cases:
Huh what's case on Omba in #341 is bad. Serela didn't have any irrational, unjustified hate of Omba. I'm surprised you didn't call this out considering your comment that Serela barely said two lines about Omba. Serela's best bet of survival was ignoring the Omba wagon and concentrating on getting the people on it to switch over to the guy he was immediately competing with, not to split voters who weren't taking the Serela option. Saying the dismissal was 'needless' when it was both true and correct is just denying what happened. It was the truth and I only regret that I didn't dismiss it hard enough.
There is also the end of Day 2 stuff, where I honestly don't think Shadoweh seriously believes someone would receive town credit for hammering scum after the scum posted their fake claiming strategy and was probably arguing the point just to rile me up and disrupt the logic game further after the Omba case I felt really strongly about blew up so spectacularly (see earlier references to how the feelings came can abuse the logic game - this is one of those instances).
Riling up someone who is likely to write a giant wall post detailing why they hate you and want you to die is bad scum strategy. If you can explain how I benefit from making you want to vote for me I'll buy this as evidence.
This game is slowly running out of suspects. It's hard for me to suspect you after all this because of how eereily similar our thinking is. (Especially the part about who would kill IHNN. If it was for being a cop, I'd guess it was for the line about how Serela's claim turned him "from null-town to scum to me".) Just from the wagons you posted I surmise
PX / Kilga or huh what / BT or Kilga / BT or Kilga / huh what <--- This would be the worst one.
It's probably not BT / PX due to infighting or PX / huh what due to wagon location. I have doubts that it's BT at all, which makes your position as the only relatively unconfirmed person on PX as well as the only outlier vote on Day 1 suspect. I look forward to hearing your reply. Sincerely, I can write just as many words as you can.
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"sniping" sounds like a scum buzzword
Why is it wrong to challenge the towniness of players while sitting on a vote you're confident is on a scum player?
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you know if we're going to have a Shadoweh vs Huhwhat let me be the first to get on Huhwhat's case
##Vote: Huhwhat :smokedcheese:
Let's start with D1!
Huhwhat starts the say off by setting himself up to jump on me in an ironic fashion (#125)
He completely avoids talking about Serela. (This is important later)
Huhwhat gets on the ball Mid D1 by making a case on me in #201, awful by Huhwhat standards. He accuses me of voteparking on Serela and calls it oppurtunistic because I hadn't commented on it in a few pages (despite Serela being inactive the entire time)
Also, when Raitaki improved himself to you, why did you immediately go for the rising wagon instead of attempting to re-read Omba and PX before voting, when they both previously irked you?
Why DID I go for the "rising wagon" I was the FIRST ONE TO VOTE ON, Huhwhat?
Later HW gives some reasons he's not voting Raitaki in #222 (which are all the reasons I unvoted him that the major case on me is about)I only have so many words. I didn't express disapproval with the Serela lynch, so I'm still fine wth it but think Rex is more likely to flip scum. Would switch to Serela for deadline though.
This is baffling considering he's not mentioned Serela up to this point, and leaves hin in a comfortable position of "I can be on any wagon I want"
...while defending Serela "for being Serela" a few posts later. (#226)
Once the claims are out HW bashes mine because it's easy to forge. He ontinues this line of thought for the rest of the day, despite VT claims being generally null and not worth the setup speculation. Of note he tries to convert Pesco using this reasoning but leaves it cold when Pesco gives a reasonable explanation refuting it.
He makes a quick hop on Serela when her claim is obviously fake but backs off a few posts later because "Serela doesn't breadcrumb" then goes back onto his "my PM is forged" stance.
His final D1 post of note is his #323
Uh, not really. Serela's voteswitch tied the wagons and a few players on the Rex wagon (me, Omba) had expressed interest in lynching Serela earlier on, while there was not quite as much interest in NNR
Just a reminder, his first post on Serela was after my wagon was at 4 votes.
This is only D1, too. I don't think Serela's wagon had any bussers. Just scum trying REALLY HARD to get me lynched.
I'll make another post later when I get into D2 again.
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I'll make another post later when I get into D2 again.
**which will probably not be for a good deal of time since I need sleep and I'l probably be busy when I wake up
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**which will probably not be for a good deal of time since I need sleep and I'll probably be busy when I wake up
:dealwithit:
b4 anyone complains
CHOO CHOO
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Not to defend huh what, but since a fair amount of NNR's case seems based around the alleged scant amount of time huh what spent talking about Serela, I will point out he did spend a paragraph of #163 talking about Serela.
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Also I will address Shadowert's response to my case when I get home, I knew when I wrote alll that shit that the response was going tto be too large to address over the phone. :V
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HW is referring to this:
Also, while in my role PM my role reads exactly how it was posted in the OP (for example if my role was Voyeur, I received a role PM stating I was "Voyeur" instead of "Watcher" or something). However, YOUR claim gave a role description that a) didn't match any of the posted roles and b) had nothing to do with actually describing the role aside from stating that you're a townie, the descriptor "Praline" seems to have been put there just to attempt to follow the cat/pet theme of the game >_>;
I moved Raitaki to the Town Corner for similar reasons to others, but this is a thing.
(1) He's not a PR. They're all either dead or Omba.
(2) He's not dead.
Assuming Town!Raitaki, a scumteam hunting for PRs would take this as a blatant PR claim. Hell, it's barely even bizarre because he's used to a different sort of games. Despite this, he wasn't NK'd. IHNN was NK'd instead. The Pesco NK is easier to fathom because it's Pesco, but... yeah.
It could be a set-up, but even when considering a deliberately faulty NK, (1) doesn't make sense.
Leaving this here for now for people to respond to and consider at their own pace. I've yet to parse the Gigantic Walls of Text, let alone take a good look at people for myself, so action shall wait.
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Koromo's back/shoulders are probably burnt, hurt like hell, and just woke up to post walls. It'll be hard to read through these and reread but Koromo shall try my best.
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@BT: About that...my role PM said I was a Vanilla Townie. At the point I thought the Vanilla part was part of the role name, not the flavor descriptor. The wording was because I didn't want to claim VT outright and wanted to pretend to be a PR to bait NKs. At this point there's no longer a point in doing that though :\
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frumg dork we are experiencing technical difficulties
Rai was counterclaiming a Vanilla Town claim. I do not understand how that could parse as a PR.
I'm also not sure if I want this to be 'huh what vs Shadoweh' because there are three just as suspicious people. Want to see what PX and BT have to say. Also rereading Midnight Crew to see how huh what treats baby buddy Serela
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It could parse as a PR if it looked like he was confused at <custom> as opposed to "Vanilla". Which, he was, but that makes sense if his flavor is actually "Vanilla".
Reading and such.
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Regarding the post walls:
Kilga, stop watching detective shows :V
All in all, pretty good case on Shadoweh and much of it makes sense to me. Also, it reminded me of Case Closed and was a fun read :V
Shadoweh's response was likewise good, but Kilga's was better. Still need to check out people to see who are the scums.
Neko: Your wall is more information instead of analysis. It doesn't do much convincing, and doesn't really explain why he is scum. Try analysis his posts and say why it makes sense for him to do it as scum.
All in all, a little convinced of Shadoweh scum. Looking for Kilga's read of huh what, Shadoweh's reads, huh what's reads, and BT.
Also, incoming 8 hour van ride driven by Wahaha so do not expect much of me until tomorrow or later tonight. No computer really sucks. Also, still reading.
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Okay, yeah, I misunderstood Rai's vote on Rex. With that in mind the switch actually reflects on him as eager newbtown.
Can we massclaim Vanilla names just because? I'm a pile of baby otters, Cookies & Cream Townie.
So I obviously don't buy into a HW/Shadowh false dichotomy. I'm not sure where scum would have gotten the impression IHNN is the cop, and the kill would still make sense for a scumpair that realized he couldn't be lynched and found him a threat - BT/PX, for example. It's also possible that while scum didn't suspect cop-Nameless with such confidence they'd kill him on that along, it was a combination of power role hunting and him being an actual threat for whatever reason. As for why Shadoweh and I are alive, I obviously wouldn't have been killed either night because I looked lynchable after the end-of-day wagons. No explanation for Shadoweh though, but it's possible scum has been looking for PRs the most since PRs are basically unlynchable if they claim before LYLO. Also, I'm not sure why Kilga is completely dropping PX in favor of this.
##Vote: PX (L-4) :)
Last two days, he's been in positions where he can coast on (presumable) town wagons near deadline because he was on them early, then let other people take the heat.
D1 Rex rises up as a counterwagon to Serela. PX comes back, but avoids posting and taking a stance when it mattered the most because he's "too tired". I believe this excuse is legitimate, but based on my past experiences as scum I also think scum are more likely to take advantage of physical state to not bother attempting to post at all. Also interesting: Neko vote comes right as IHNN wagon is falling apart, possibility of leaving sinking ship that had no chance of becoming a counterwagon.
D2 PX doesn't pursue any lynches or consider options other than Affinity. As scum there's no reason for him to if he thinks he can get by on minimal content - Affinity was the counterwagon to him so obviously he can't switch to anybody else.
His D2 looks really awful in hindsight, though. He had multiple suspects D1 (Rai, IHNN) who he dropped completely without a word so he could tunnel on Affinity. It's as if he decided they weren't lynchable anymore after Serela's flip, but the rest of the people Serela's flip made lynchable were either difficult for him to attack (Kilga and I) or a quickwagon he wanted to oppose for towncred (PX).
Re-reading D1: I'm realizing that Shadoweh bussing Serela doesn't actually look too probable, since she had a solid case on IHNN which she could have kept pushing even after his unvote if he wanted to. Had she left Serela alone it was entirely possible people would give him a pass on "well, it's Serela". Basically see what Kilga said about scum having to be suicidally moronic to slam their rolecop with such a good case in this set-up, only make it "suicidally moronic to slam their rolecop with such a good case in this set-up when they had a townie they could push easily with little retribution".
Affinity vote looks subliminally telegraphed from her D1 posts where she talks about him too, but not in the blatant "My thought process is linear and consistent, please don't vote me" scum way either. I don't find the "scum pony" point very strong, either - I get the impression it was just rhetoric to convince BT to switch. After Serela flipped scum a townie would want to re-assess whether they thought he was being bussed or not instead of just assuming.
So I'm not as sold on a Shadoweh wagon as I thought I'd be. At the moment I'd be more interested in lynching Kilga for ~PUSHING A FALSE DICHOTOMY~ while failing to consider options that would make it invalid, and other oddities like giving Rai towncred for being on the PX wagon when we don't have PX's flip. The false dichotomy just looks too much like a bullshit saving throw for scum coming out of a day where they were likely to get PoE'd for me to buy into it. If Shadoweh is town and scum!Kilga gets her and I mislynched back to back, he wins.
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a quickwagon he wanted to oppose for towncred (PX).
lolll
*Omba
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Also, if Kilga's town reads were legit, I'm curious how the Omba case getting shot down and Affinity flipping scum made him jump from "PX and BT both look bad on process of elimination" to "the scums are between HW / Shadoweh" when the IHNN kill makes sense for PX/BT and Kilga was on PX at the end of D2.
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Affinity flipping town*
I really cannot into words today I guess.
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Vote Count: Yakko's World (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x88Z5txBc7w) edition
Shadoweh (1): Kilgamayan
huh what (1): NekoNekoRex
PX (1): huh what
Not voting: BT, Omba, Raitaki, Shadoweh, PX
You have ~28 hours remaining. With 8 in play, it takes 5 votes to launch.
Mod: Can we use the same emoticons in multiple posts?
Feel free.
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Vote BT :comedycentral:
His D2 mostly consisted of mostly of fighting with IHNN and defending of Omba. However, nobody bites the case and he is forced to throw it away towards the end of D2 and jump on one of the two town wagons at the end of the day. At the end of the day, he starts waffling between the two wagons, and jumps on the Affinity wagon AFTER I claimed vanilla. This is a good spot for scum as he couldnt decide which wagon to stick on until after I claimed, thus making the Affinity lynch much better as he is usually regarded as a better player and scum hunter than me, as well of odds of being a PR compared to my vanilla. On top of this, his position on Serela is perfect for bussing scum, as he gains massive credit if Serela was lynched, and there was still opportunity for NNR or Omba to get lynched as well. To top it off, the IHNN NK makes perfect sense coming from him regardless of if he suspected PR or not.
Cut by huh what, I'll get to that next.
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Okay. Omba is town. Raitaki is town. NNR isn't shining town but his lynch isn't happening either way, and for good enough reason. Would like him to name his reasons for voting HW in a way that isn't post-by-post evaluation, though.
>_> It isn't Kilga/Shadoweh, that's safe enough. Aside from huge amount of effort, basically makes the day center around them which would be nonsensical.
Hrm. Shadoweh. Bussing allows for super-strong cases, and that's what her Serela case was, but throwing your rolecop buddy off a cliff after half of D1 is over like that doesn't sound like a worthwhile gambit at all.
PX paid no attention to the Serela wagon in LD1. He did say he was going to defend Serela but that never happened. Sole push on Affinity D2 looks worse after the flip and the Omba wagon distancing remains relevant. Latest post is "Shadoweh is good, Kilga is better, therefore Scum Shadoweh". Could be more convinced, liked parts of D1, but would support this lynch.
... I'm actually not done, because I was going to make a big post-summary hybrid and literally ran out of time in the process. Stuff about HW and Kilga tomorrow, because there are things I want to say. Technically I'm not done reading those two, but I can get behind my reasons regarding PX so
##Vote PX :wat:
cut by "scum motivation for Affinity lynch, therefore BT scum" >_>
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##Vote huh what :getdown:
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I did take a stance on Serela when his wagon was rising, as I declared him as a town read. I went on NNR because I legitimately thought he was scum, as well IHNN was looking better for me as well as Rai, I'm sure I've brought that up before. Next point, can't refute that. As for Affinity, I had suspicion on him D1 and followed that D2 as everyone else was looking town/null. I brought up about Rai and IHNN already, as for the others, I don't really like wasting words to spam unneeded town/null reads, only of they were bring attacked/under threat of lynch. Even more so since I was left to phone posting and was in a vehicle for a good of D2.
Cut by BT: That's not all I have for why you're scum, it's a combination of timing, the NK, wagon position, and all you did of D2 >_>
Cut again wut
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My rereading was just interupted badly. I will not go into details but I seriously don't remember what I was reading anymore.
I'm Vita-Chan and I'm butter pecan, one of my favorite flavors of ice cream. \^_^/
huh what: Why PX and not BT?
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Also for HW: What makes you think BT is scum as well? Are you pushing me/BT or me/Kilga?
Cut by Shadoweh saying something the same.
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Okay, phone is dying too fast, so I'll be gone until at least later tonight. Don't expect much else from me.
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huh what: Why PX and not BT?
Because I don't think BT is scum?
PX/BT was mentioned because it was an example of a non-HW and non-Shadoweh team that would kill IHNN, not because I believe it to be the scum.
If I thought BT was scum I would have talked about why I thought BT was scum.
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I'm Maru (http://i.imgur.com/ssIFi.jpg), Vanilla Town. And I have absolutely no idea why my role was named Maru >_>
By the way folks Godfather right here nah I'm jk
Currently undecided between the cases brought up. Kilga's case against Shadoweh isn't very concrete imo, and some parts of it were meta, and unless many other people agree I'm going to ignore player-specific meta arguments. Also, is the following quote the result of some sort of behavioural analysis or meta, and if the former please give me an elaboration:
I don't see two non-Shadoweh non-HW black names reaching that conclusion with such confidence that they'd kill him.
Neko's case does make some sense (assuming he didn't exaggerate/misrepresent HW's D1 stances). This by itself is not enough to convince me to vote HW right now however. Will do some reread on HW later.
PX's case....Well I'm not really buying this one, since the timing of his posts suggest that he doesn't have a lot of time each day to post, so it is possible that he simply couldn't get on the forum and post before PX claimed. I'll check later to see if BT ever posted near the time PX claimed.
HW's case against PX's Day 2 seems reasonable. This is the case I'm most inclined to believe in at the moment.
In lack of a better vote target at this time...##Vote PX :3c
The only thing that I've noticed by myself so far is the reason why I survived 2 nights straight after the bait D1. Pesco only scumhunted a bit D1, and even so part of his effort was already spent on pushing me to produce content. About IHNN, his voting pattern was similiar to mine, and he was producing not a lot more content than me, so if scum noticed my seemingly PR claim D1 I can't think of any reason they'd NK Pesco and IHNN first before me (unless IHNN crumbed about his role and scum noticed...). So, the most logical conclusion is that scum had not noticed my implied PR claim in D1. This would eliminate HW and BT, as they both acknowledged that my post hinted at having a PR. While it is true that there is the possibility that they might have thought that the post didn't necessarily mean that I had a PR, I don't think scum would prefer to NK a player that might pose a thread to them later during the Day over a player that has made a post that they realized can be implying the possession of a PR.
(Got interrupted a few times typing that paragraph, I apologize if it turned out incoherent >_>)
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Why not? You point out that it's possible the nightkill was because Nameless was a legitimate threat. IHNN's biggest persual was after BT. He's someone that all three of us, you me and Kilga haven't been pushing. He's the only person on the wagon who isn't me or obvious doofus town. I honestly believe he is capable of being scum.
I've also had serious issues with BT's reasoning ever since this post:
Oh, that's why. I read his (Serela's) post as "don't wanna lynch IHNN, oh wait this post changes my mind, now I want him dead".
Understanding of Serela's thought patterns, explaining why he doesn't think he's scum.
I'm the one that called people out for clearing people because their scumread is voting them in #123. :V Scum/Scum is actually a possibility I'm considering plenty. Both would be seen by scum as meaningful (and easy) wagons at time of voting (Serela on IHNN, IHNN on Serela). Notice that I never said I disagree with Serela's lynch; IHNN's jump could easily be a bus, also considering the inconsistency. I guess I just prefer IHNN if it happens that one of them are town.
His reasoning for voting Serela is because he's scumbuddies with his suspect who is bussing him. The only thing he ever throws in support of that lynch is the vote. He doesn't ever spare a word to why Serela is scum. He also disappears after he votes Serela. Also, if this is reasoning that BT believes I don't understand why he's willing to agree with the masses and clear Neko. I feel like his votes are safe.
asghndhgdg I still can't make up my mind. Huh what defending BT so hardcore feels like suspicious steering. Every time I reread I keep finding more spots where Kilga has been subtly trying to set me up all game. And PX has some real oddities concerning how he asked some questions near the end of Day 1 then dropped IHNN completely for Affinity. ..Actually there's alot of gonna get to it later in his iso. I'm gonna go out and get dinner and let the house air out. I will vote when I get back.
Rai: I don't mean to be offensive, but you obviously survived because you're the newest in the group and a little sheepy. Scum probably thinks it has you in it's pocket.
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I've re-read BT multiple times and waffled on it. The gist of it is that his Serela vote seems too anti-scum and non-telegraphed to be a bus.
Will expland later, head feels heavy and I don't want to post in mafia.
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Hum hum hmmmm.
I was going to open this with the following...
- I don't buy into a PX/BT team offing IHNN on the grounds that he's a threat. IHNN was not really a threat, he doesn't have the silverest tongue in this game by a fairly wide margin (with all due respect). He also wasn't as unlynchable as Omba or NNR. And really, if he was killed purely because he suspected BT, even then that would need to be signed off on by PX and I don't think PX would
...and it was about there that I stopped and thought and realized I wasn't sure PX wouldn't sign off on such a kill. I will admit that Shadoweh's #559 has also weighed on my mind over the past hour and a half.
Let me reconsider this.
(Orange Sherbet Town, baby duck and baby owl snuggling (http://i.imgur.com/B0mkp.jpg).)
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Still reconsidering.
Shadoweh, why aren't you voting BT right now?
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It doesn't have to be PX/BT. And it doesn't matter if you didn't think IHNN's tongue was silver enough, you aren't the scum right? He was relatively cleared due to :Serela: and he was pretty active in pursuing his target. It still makes the three of us living really suspicious but still.
I said why I wasn't voting BT. I'm currently rereading huh what and you since no one else seems to want to. Why are you still voting me?
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Of all the times for my mouse wheel to start fucking itself up ;_;
You know, I wonder if Serela's slip in #319 was due to not having buddies around to bounce his ideas/posts off of before posting them.
I do now find myself wondering about BT's Serela vote. It came when the wagons were tied, but the NNR wagon was gaining momentum, and NNR had already voted Serela, so really NNR was effectively a vote closer to lynch. Raitaki was also on the Serela wagon and was probably the most unpredictable opinion/vote at that time due to being a newbie used to a different style of play while we're still on Day 1, so it was hardly a guarantee he'd stay on Serela. In retrospect, BT's vote-then-leave is less risky as a bus than it seemed at the time for these reasons. The one thing that bothers me is that I don't know why he wouldn't try to justify it more than he did if bussing was really his intention.
The End of Day 2 transition from #436 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg869257.html#msg869257), where he makes the case why PX is scummier than Affinity, to #444 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg869278.html#msg869278), where he keeps making points on PX but...unvotes him for ??? reasons, to #455 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg869302.html#msg869302), where Affinity is now voteworthy and PX "feels a lot more solid now" despite the fact that PX's only meaningful post between #436 and #445 was one BT theoretically didn't read before changing his mind. Wat? Where is the reasoning for why PX is better? I have to admit that the thing that makes the most sense here is BT spotting a chance to get rid of someone on his trail and taking it (looking back on it now, Affinity's #421 is actually a decent case - object to Omba lynch without really doing anything about it, sit on IHNN for the entire day despite it being pretty obvious that wagon was never going to go anywhere).
I'll also admit I forgot that IHNN's top two priorities in #428 were BT and PX.
I hate everything. :matsuriscowl:
##Unvote: Shadoweh
##Vote: BT :(
Man, egg on my face. This is what I get for trying to REVERSE SPEEDS on scumhunting style and do everything I always say not to do because I'm paranoid that I'm being played.
Another post coming after this; other things I have promised to address have gone unaddressed for long enough.
Fake edit: Then I guess the question is more why you aren't voting anyone. It's not like you can't change your mind if you have good reason to do so. BT just seems like the most obvious vote from your perspective.
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Also I was still voting you because I was still reading and still writing. Would you have rather I empty unvoted like you yelled at people for doing in #443?
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~Stuff for huh what~
- My primary focus was not on PX at the beginning despite it being there at the end of yesterday because I had two choices and deadline pressure to deal with at the end of yesterday. I saw a lot of myself in Affinity's play and figured both of PX's questions that I highlighted were bogus, which is why I pushed as hard as I did, but this didn't mean at all that my PX case were my pride and joy of the entire game. Getting two more flips and 24 hours of not being under deadline pressure gave me the opportunity to give everything another once-over.
- My issue with your issue with my #170 is (a) I at least tried to justify why I found people suspicious, and (b) NNR was at zero (0) votes when I wrote that. Claiming that my voiced suspicion of NNR let me "hop on any rising wagon" means claiming I was betting on NNR to go from zero to lynch danger when only you and kinda-sorta Pesco were suspicious of him at the time.
- For your nitpick #3, I had put you and Affinity ahead of BT because I remembered meaningful stances you and Affinity took on D1 while I couldn't say the same about BT. Funny story: When going through potential suspects over Night 1, since I knew I usually forget at least one person playing the game, I made an active attempt to think of people I couldn't remember, and only PX came to my mind. It wasn't until after I picked through everyone on the player list that I remembered BT was in the game.
Pegasis next, though that will take longer to write.
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~Stuff for Pegasis~
This'll be more quotestripe-y due to the existing presentation. OH WELL. I've tried to cut out some stuff regardless; consider anything I don't address either dropped (such as the PX using RNG kills thing) or satisfied with the point that has been made due to the lack of a combative reaction (such as the Affinity not voting at L-2 thing).
Kilga you dope, I kill the person I think is townest Day 1. Considering what I said about you, who do you think I would have killed?
I may be generically high on your list from game-to-game, but I don't think there's any question that Pesco came out of Day 1 townier than I did. My initial reaction to the way the day planned out was to put you at #1 and him at #2, really.
For the record, it's highlighted because it's something I find suspicious but can't quite reason out why. Weird is a good word for it. I don't think I point out 'funny things townies do' in thread as scum.
See, the thing is that I can't really tell the difference, precisely because of the lack of accompanying "why". It could easily be scum highlighting something that looks weird without being 100% sure how to paint it in a negative light so they hope just dangling it in front of townies will make them take it and run with it. The "why" is at least as important as the "what", if not more so, and townies posting "what"s without posting "why"s gives scum carte blanche to do the same thing and it suddenly gets harder to pick out the bullshit justifications. You'll also understand when I don't take that last sentence at face value.
It's not a matter of amusement. I find it strange that you would go out of your way not to mark yourself as confirmed town but mark your near-100% town read as confirmed town. It's like you're downplaying yourself.
It did occur to you that I could just parse blue as confirmed town in my head as I read that chart, right? :V Since I knew I was the only blue name and I knew I was town. I'm going to assume you're not asking me why I didn't try to present myself as confirmed town to the rest of the game.
Let me put it another way. Why aren't you obvtown? Your play is alot like when you were the tracker last game, but you're just some vanilla, so why does it feel like you've been holding back?
I'm not obvtown because I voiced support of the scum wagon without actually being on it and my slam-dunk case completely fell apart in the middle of Day 2. If I were watching someone else do this in another game I wouldn't find them any sort of obvtown. Clearly, from the number of people that stated dissatisfaction with me near the end of D2, I'm not the only one that thinks this way.
The "holding back" thing is likely a product of me not posting a lot on Day 1 (which I always try to do) and work schedule simply not allowing me to be here as much as everyone else. It didn't help that I spent all but about three hours of my Day 2 online time on my phone instead of at my computer due to various environmental circumstances, so that likely added to any perceived lack of participation on my part.
TEA BEA SEA
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Is it really so hard to think I was hoping that maybe, just maybe, ramming a scum lynch and being obviously town for it might earn me a Night 1 kill? Do you know how absolutely maddening it is that they killed fucking Pesco instead? There is literally nothing I can do that comes off threatening. I've been refraining from commenting about my feelings this game. But I'm already getting tangental thinking about it.
You're not gonna get to me with that AtE, missy. :V I'm not a huge fan of this, any way I read it sounds more like excuse-making for the lackluster Affinity case than anything else. Please do at least realize how incongruous the strengths of your Day 1 and Day 2 cases are. (For the record, I do at least not blame anyone for wanting to get NKed, since I find myself praying for it more often than not regardless of the circumstances. >_>)
I spent the night looking over the Serela wagon to figure out who was at the rodeo, but.. well look at it from my perspective.The three original people who jumped Serela after my case came out various degrees of obvtown. Neko for the push, IHNN for Serela trying to push him like a donkey, and Raitaki for CATS. Pesco died. And I'm the town that sent that wagon off the cliff for you naysayers so suck it. Literally the only person on here to make sense as scum is the guy who made sure it happened in the end, so I thought perhaps it would be better to pursue off-wagon. On top of that, going into today, the scum aren't afraid to kill on-wagon. Either BT didn't think about it or the only scum on the wagon is Serela and they froze the wagon to get us hunting for bussing scum that doesn't exist.
Scum don't always think about that sort of thing. I remember watching you doing highlighted wagon analysis on Day 3 of Swords Girls Mafia and thinking "y'know, maybe we should have paid closer attention to the wagons when deciding who to kill and who to suspect." (For all that none of our kills were in our control in that game, anyway.) This is also at least part of the reason why I am surprised your vote is not on BT, because your opinion of his vote seems a lot less positive now.
I am not sure how much clearer I can make this. I thought Pesco was scummy. I thought him borrowing you as credit in an argument with me was scummy. My statement at the time stands, I had no reason to assume either of you were thinking of the town instead of hoping we would lynch the cop for being Serela. Because even if I believed in my case I couldn't be sure I was -right- until the flip.
Again with the lack of addressing the "why"s. I'm not going to speak for the dead rabbit but I at least tried to put forward my rationale on why the counterclaim was a bad idea, which you either didn't notice or did and didn't care. You could very well have discussed why my rationale was good or bad while still not having any reason to think Pesco or myself town. Not doing so and simply blowing us off in this fashion instead was not a townie approach to the situation.
Huh what's case on Omba in #341 is bad. Serela didn't have any irrational, unjustified hate of Omba. I'm surprised you didn't call this out considering your comment that Serela barely said two lines about Omba. Serela's best bet of survival was ignoring the Omba wagon and concentrating on getting the people on it to switch over to the guy he was immediately competing with, not to split voters who weren't taking the Serela option. Saying the dismissal was 'needless' when it was both true and correct is just denying what happened. It was the truth and I only regret that I didn't dismiss it hard enough.
Hoo boy, where to start.
- Considering my opinion on all Serela had said about Omba, I was at least inclined to agree with the sentiment that it was unjustified, because I, uh, hadn't found justification.
- Why did you not bring this assessment of the best Serela approach up at the time? It would have caused reasonable discussion and perhaps persuaded huh what to reconsider his stance. Y'know, the sort of thing that town wants to do with each other. Instead he got a blanket dismissal that I would assume (though he can correct me if I'm wrong) he didn't feel applied to him...
- ...one that you still stand by with plenty of needless rhetoric despite the fact that it was a discussion killer (and still inaccurate relative to my case). If Town Shadoweh really wants to be seen as a threat to scum she should dismiss things with discussion-stifling statements less and try to open dialogues about reasonings more. Why did huh what think his proposed best course of action for Scum Serela was the best one when you have this idea for a different one? Why was Omba's second-suspect-Serela approach to the wagon as scummy as I was claiming it was? Things like that. It's not as hard to do as your self-meta, AtE and rhetoric use suggest it is.
Riling up someone who is likely to write a giant wall post detailing why they hate you and want you to die is bad scum strategy. If you can explain how I benefit from making you want to vote for me I'll buy this as evidence.
This implies you were doing it thinking that my "likely" response to it would be to come out blasting you the next day despite the fact that my most recent stated opinion of you was that you were probably town due to the D1 wagon. I think it's entirely possible Scum Shadoweh tried messing with my head while I was obviously frustrated from my pride-and-joy case being blown up by a role claim, yes, because muddying my perception of the game would be good for a scum who has stated she holds my townie game in high regard. That it blew up in said scum's face was simply an unexpected result.
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Now, as for why my vote is still on BT after all that, it is because I think the things I outlined in #564 outweigh the issues I have with Shadoweh despite those issues being more plentiful. On the logical surface, his rather empty Serela vote looks more like a bus than hers, which was based on a very townie case.
tl;dr I still do hold Shadoweh as a suspect, just not as high as BT.
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Current reread says I don't find huh what's play suspicious when compared to past games. Maybe I would have more confidence in this if I were ever able to read huh what correctly.. but he's definitely not afraid of bussing Serela, and I feel he hasn't been as emotional this game as he usually gets as scum. Three suspects.. Rereading has remindded me that KilgaTown likes applying the vote to the Shadoweh. It's kind of surreal to read you being the one telling me how insulting it is to suspect you killed Pesco. asfhdggs. If one of you is scum I don't feel like I can figure it out yet.
I may be generically high on your list from game-to-game, but I don't think there's any question that Pesco came out of Day 1 townier than I did.
Can you please explain this to me so I can understand it. I DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHY HE IS DEAD. You can accuse me of lying about my scum meta but it's not like I can erase past games. All you need to do to see it is look. (this is clearly vampiric hypnotism at work, OOoOOoOOooo read my past gaaaAaAaaammesss)
See, the thing is that I can't really tell the difference, precisely because of the lack of accompanying "why".
If I knew why something was weird at the time it wouldn't be weird. Mafia is still a team game. If I can't understand something, there's a chance someone else will havve an idea of what's bugging me about something if I hold it out. It's nice to have reminders for myself, but if I'm posting it it's because I want to see what people's opinions of someething are.
This is me acknowledging that colors are semantics and we just seem to think differently about them.
Re: Why not obvtown; I was more interested in the activity part then asking why game-state wise you wouldn't be. Not posting doesn't excuse an inactive vote, but there wasn't really any time you could have put the vote on Serela (I checked this time).
Part 2
You're not gonna get to me with that AtE, missy. :V I'm not a huge fan of this, any way I read it sounds more like excuse-making for the lackluster Affinity case than anything else. Please do at least realize how incongruous the strengths of your Day 1 and Day 2 cases are. (For the record, I do at least not blame anyone for wanting to get NKed, since I find myself praying for it more often than not regardless of the circumstances. >_>)
I'm aware there was a difference in strength, but that's to be expected when the first subject is relatively obvious scum and the second one was a townie, making any points against him wrong in the end. It wasn't as strong because I wasn't as confident, it's as simple as that. (I like being alive, usually. It's just a matter of pride.)
Scum don't always think about that sort of thing. I remember watching you doing highlighted wagon analysis on Day 3 of Swords Girls Mafia and thinking "y'know, maybe we should have paid closer attention to the wagons when deciding who to kill and who to suspect." (For all that none of our kills were in our control in that game, anyway.) This is also at least part of the reason why I am surprised your vote is not on BT, because your opinion of his vote seems a lot less positive now.
Scum not thinking about it is a point. The only thing keeping me from BT at the moment is remembering Serela's semi-defense of him combined with exploring how possible you and huh what being partners is. (as in rereading you both equally) I don't think I ever expressed a positive opinion of BT's vote.
Again with the lack of addressing the "why"s. I'm not going to speak for the dead rabbit but I at least tried to put forward my rationale on why the counterclaim was a bad idea, which you either didn't notice or did and didn't care. You could very well have discussed why my rationale was good or bad while still not having any reason to think Pesco or myself town. Not doing so and simply blowing us off in this fashion instead was not a townie approach to the situation.
Perhaps if I outline my thinking at the time it'll be clearer. I did not want a counterclaim either. I was exploring why Serela's behaviour was scummy due to the fact that a cop in an open setup should consider themselves confirmed town because of how counterclaiming works, and Serela was acting the opposite of confirmed town. Pesco took that as a reason to attack me mistaking my intentions as stating that the cop should claim. Since that's not what I was arguing at all, I took it as a strawmanning push and your name just being used to support an attack on me. Your rationale from a theory standpoint could be argued either way. I didn't care because I wasn't trying to argue against you.
- Considering my opinion on all Serela had said about Omba, I was at least inclined to agree with the sentiment that it was unjustified, because I, uh, hadn't found justification.
This sounds like you just agreed because you agreed Omba was scummy, without looking at the case in detail. Is this correct?
- Why did you not bring this assessment of the best Serela approach up at the time?
Because at the time I didn't read it in detail either. At a glance I already disagreed with the premise of all the cases on Omba, reading further into them wasn't going to convince me otherwise compared to the proof I felt I had from Serela himself.
Your third point is more a complaint of my playstyle again. Perhaps you're right, but I did try to engage you at the time with the proof I had. Your responses to me are filled with as much AtE as anything I've done.
This implies you were doing it thinking that my "likely" response to it would be to come out blasting you the next day despite the fact that my most recent stated opinion of you was that you were probably town due to the D1 wagon. I think it's entirely possible Scum Shadoweh tried messing with my head while I was obviously frustrated from my pride-and-joy case being blown up by a role claim, yes, because muddying my perception of the game would be good for a scum who has stated she holds my townie game in high regard. That it blew up in said scum's face was simply an unexpected result.
You seem to think that's what I wanted out of you? Your continuous opinion of me has been to question my every move. I can't see how it would be more beneficial if I were scum to talk to you instead of ignoring you until the night phase. You know what's more effective against someone who's townie game you hold in high regard then messing with their head? Bullets!
There is a huge problem for me right now. BT/PX doesn't make much sense. They've been infighting since Day 2. I don't think stop drop and bus is a good scum strategy immediately after a scum lynch. One of you two bastards is scum. And one of them is likely scum. Aaaaaaaaa. 48 hour days are horrible.
At the moment I support either lynch, but Kilga is correct, I haven't seen anything from BT to refute my points. This feels kind of like BR vs Kaori, both of them are fairly absent lurkers. My hammer the PX urges are rising again though so he better post something good or I will quickwagon him off the planet again.
##Vote: BT :trollface:
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Vote Count: Sleepy Sleepy Sleepy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui1s2oqHv7k) edition
PX (3): huh what, BT, Raitaki
BT (3): PX, Kilgamayan, Shadoweh
huh what (2): NekoNekoRex, Omba
Not voting: Nobody!
You have ~18 hours remaining. With 8 in play, it takes 5 votes to launch.
Omba has been prodded.
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Affinity vote looks subliminally telegraphed from her D1 posts where she talks about him too, but not in the blatant "My thought process is linear and consistent, please don't vote me" scum way either.
I've re-read BT multiple times and waffled on it. The gist of it is that his Serela vote seems too anti-scum and non-telegraphed to be a bus.
I have issues with the use of telegraphing/not telegraphing in these arguments. A little more explanation on the first would be nice, likewise why the second is anything more than a weak indication.
I feel he hasn't been as emotional this game as he usually gets as scum.
There's the thing where I told him about his choice of words after the last game and he drew his conclusions from it, though.
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Give me more to work with. I'm waffling in my sleep at this point. Everyone as scum makes too much sense.
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For the nightkill speculation: It's entirely possible they just decided to off the player they thought was the most townie looking of the ones people might be willing to lynch. The resulting paranoid chaos we're having fits with this.
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The false dichotomy just looks too much like a bullshit saving throw for scum coming out of a day where they were likely to get PoE'd for me to buy into it. If Shadoweh is town and scum!Kilga gets her and I mislynched back to back, he wins.
If you actually think this is him scummily lining up lynches, I'd say that has more weight than what you have on PX. Also don't get where the idea anything could have been PoE'd today is coming from. That was pretty much out of the window the moment the NK speculation started.
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We're not going down the lynch BT/PX, if town flip, lynch the other one - road, btw.
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Well, was gonna post a better case on BT, but Kilga's case just sums it up nicely. That said, just got home and still no computer access until later tomorrow. I'll get to reading others tomorrow, but squarely convinced of BT scum.
And Omba, NNR, I don't think the huh what lynch is happening. Get your butts in here and lynch BT.
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And Omba, NNR, I don't think the huh what lynch is happening. Get your butts in here and lynch BT.
That's mainly you saying your lynch isn't happening.
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Blegh, Thi is the second day in a row I have to choose between two meh wagons, apparently
I still don't really see BT, I'd rather switch to PX if I have to. Still don't like his D1 reasons for starting the wagon on me.
Still want HW to be lynched. Not sure where PX pulled out that IioA thing. I thought it was pretty clear.
HW's D1 was him ignoring stuff on Serela and jumping on me for awful reasons, then continuing to make excuses for Serela's blatantly scummy actions while pounding on me for more awful reasons. Even when he switched to Serela for the claim it wasn't long before e just made another excuse to switch back to me.
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So NNR, let me get this straight. The sole reason you don't like me is because I made a case and voted you. I will repeat: HOW is that scummy?! How does simply making a case make more sense on me as scum than as town? As for why you want Huh What lynched. Because he... attacked you? And that makes him scum HOW? You see where I'm going with this. You're not saying why the person's actions are scum. You're simply saying what they did and saying that it's scummy. You are not explaining why it makes sense for them to be scum then for them to simply be town. On top of that, you're saying we attacked YOU for "awful reasons". Care to explain how exactly they are awful reasons? Because making a case alone should never, ever, EVER be used as a reason the person is scummy. Even if the person made a case on someone who is mod confirmed town to the entire town, that's not scummy but utterly stupid. So please, explain to us WHY that is scummy, not just say what they did is scummy.
/rant
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It's not the only reason! I'm just brutally tired and I don't know how to go to bed.
Also there's not much content to go on in the first place, I have to start somewhere.
I'm going to finally address this when I get some rest. Definitely back before deadline.
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Blegh, Thi is the second day in a row I have to choose between two meh wagons, apparently
I still don't really see BT, I'd rather switch to PX if I have to. Still don't like his D1 reasons for starting the wagon on me.
Still want HW to be lynched. Not sure where PX pulled out that IioA thing. I thought it was pretty clear.
HW's D1 was him ignoring stuff on Serela and jumping on me for awful reasons, then continuing to make excuses for Serela's blatantly scummy actions while pounding on me for more awful reasons. Even when he switched to Serela for the claim it wasn't long before e just made another excuse to switch back to me.
If you don't like either wagon, ie you think neither is scum, who do you think is scum with Huh what?
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Arregggggghhhgggggg
Can't tell who is the other scum, it could be anybody but Omba. If anything, I'm leaning towards HuhWhat for the last scum, but that's only because of his buddying of BT and that's not concrete until BT flips.
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I've come to the conclusion that Shadoweh/Kilga can't be scum, so the only one left who could is huhwhat. And I suppose NNR, but that is a very off crapshoot.
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PX: Why can't Shadoweh be scum?
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(Yotsuba and Chiyo-chan (http://i.imgur.com/cFjqp.jpg), Birthday Cake Town)(only the best flavor)
Let's try this again.
@PX #553: The beef I have with your case is that all you did was take a few of my actions and show that they fit scum. Instead of considering the reasons behind my IHNN vote movement, you mention the act as something scummy. Instead of analyzing my Affinity flip-flop, you take my switch's existence as something scummy. That kind of thing. It doesn't look like you actually made an effort to read me and instead skimmed over my posts and found scum motivation for them.
@Kilgamayan #564: When I said PX feels more solid, it was a result of reading his ISO. It wasn't a result of anything recent he'd done. In fact, I noted PX's D1 in my last post as something that made me hesitant to vote before. And that's what happened during LD2. I really hate myself for that switch - I leaned town on Affinity and was willing to reconsider that in a second as part of a *I see the light* thing after changing my mind about PX, only to find PX scummy again today. So much for doing things on a whim. And, uh, the unvote. That's not too uncommon a thing when you realize you might be wrong and want to take a step back to think about things.
@Shadoweh #559: -_- Other than saying that I agree with your case, no, I didn't have much of anything on Serela, but you summarized his measly-numbered posts so well that reiterating things like IHNN was doing (which I suspected at the time as gaining cred off of your case) wasn't something I was planning to do. If I wanted to gain massive town cred by bussing the rolecop D1 I would have been more prominent about it than a simple "I agree". What is wrong with clearing NNR? And why are my "safe" votes scummy? Why are my votes safe at all?
Unhappyface. I don't think Shadoweh is the scum which means it's somewhere between HW and Kilga, and they're both doing great. It's probably the latter; announcing Shadoweh/HW in that fashion was questionable, especially considering he's mainly going after the former, like he was welcoming people to challenge him on the other side (hello NNR). I think I can point to what I felt was bad about the Omba push at this point, too - a lot of his early points seemed like he was nitpicking on his play regardless of alignment ("fluff" even though he had content alongside it, "antagonizing" and "clouding judgement" when the entire postgame discussions about said things were due to town doing it), and he looked like he was going over the same things and adding in *scumbuddy connections* come D2. His vote on me is a big step down from the "let's lynch a big name" proposal, maybe because it wasn't getting the desired effect. Actually, this applies to Shadoweh too, in a way - if you thought he was suspect, agreeing with his vote and voting me yourself doesn't add up.
Have a "this is a post with plenty of my thoughts" post. HW is generally agreeable this game and I stated my preference of Kilga over him. It's actually pretty irritating because I think Shadoweh is more town than him pretty much due to VCA, but, bleh. On that topic, his PX case includes a lot of my (already mentioned) thoughts, that I don't have much to add, and PX's latest push doesn't really make it any prettier for him.
Omba, who be yer preferences?
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:colonveeplusalpha: :colonveeplusalpha: :colonveeplusalpha: :colonveeplusalpha: :colonveeplusalpha: :colonveeplusalpha: :colonveeplusalpha: :colonveeplusalpha: :colonveeplusalpha: :colonveeplusalpha: :colonveeplusalpha:
BT lynch does not look like it's happening, so
Unvote
Vote: huhwhat
Consider this more Not me Over Me, as I don't really have anything solid and prefer BT. 8)
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What
If you feel like my post is solid enough to stop the wagon cold then you're free to admit it. :)
Since nothing happened between your last post and this one.
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Or hell, if you really think HW is the scum and have nothing on him then the least you can do is find something. All you're doing right now from my pov is jumping from one town wagon to another for free.
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Vote Count: YACCHATTA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFHs1fOyVfA) edition (a little nsfw)
PX (3): huh what, BT, Raitaki
huh what (3): NekoNekoRex, Omba, PX
BT (2): Kilgamayan, Shadoweh
Not voting: Nobody!
You have ~6 hours remaining. With 8 in play, it takes 5 votes to launch.
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Shadoweh's case on Serela is too perfect. Koromo does not see scum Shadoweh pounding on Serela like that on D1 without noticing her scum buddy, and it caused everyone to get on Serela. Additionally, her Kilga defense are still great, and I just can't see her as scum at all.
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That answers anything how?
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Jumping in really quick to say that I prefer a PX lynch to a huh what lynch. They're equals in terms of raw end-of-day positioning but I've felt huh what's cases have been stronger throughout the game than PX's have been. Stuff I brought up near the end of Day 2 also still stands.
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BT lynch does not look like it's happening, so
BT at 3 votes
waht
I understand why PX wouldn't just babble on about null reads and such D2 but that doesn't explain a lack of effort looking into Kilga and I as if he really only cared about finding Affinity-scum. He didn't discuss Kilga/IHNN/BT cases as they popped up either. Lack of scumhunting isn't town.
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Seriously what the fuck is up with PX's recent posts?
"HW isn't getting lynched guys" -> counterargument against Neko's case on me -> "WHOOPS I guess BT lynch's isn't happening, here let me vote HW even though he'll have the same amount of votes as BT did"
Do you even read?
I'm off to go take another look at BT and post thoughts.
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It would be better if those two who are the Towniest would stop staring at huhwhat and actually look at other's cases >_<
But they insist!!!
Waffffflllllleeeeessssss
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Town!PX means that there were literally no scum on Serela's counterwagon FMPOV. I still think that leaving an early counterwagon vote down and not bothering to post when they come back is a convenient way for scum to help prevent their buddy's lynch without actually having visible evidence that they were being scummy.
I understand some points of the BT case but still don't feel his Serela vote looks like a bus (basically untelegraphed swing vote, couldn't be moved which scum would want to be able to do if their buddy was gonna claim cop, looks like it was made by a player just finding a wagon to vote to me - scum trying to bus for cred should be making it noticable) and continue to strongly prefer PX.
There is a huge problem for me right now. BT/PX doesn't make much sense. They've been infighting since Day 2.
Source? PX didn't say shit about BT Day 2. BT switched off PX at the last moment. Them being buddies isn't improbable though I personally think Kilga seems more likely as a PX-buddy since I find him scummier individually.
If you actually think this is him scummily lining up lynches, I'd say that has more weight than what you have on PX. Also don't get where the idea anything could have been PoE'd today is coming from. That was pretty much out of the window the moment the NK speculation started.
PX's D2 scumhunting was literally nonexistant and I think that's pretty heavy. PoE is because according to precedent MotK Town is unlikely to naturally take another look at Shadoweh and I if they think we're town due to bias.
I have issues with the use of telegraphing/not telegraphing in these arguments. A little more explanation on the first would be nice, likewise why the second is anything more than a weak indication.
Scum like to have clear town thought processes when applicable because they don't actually have any. If they're not shooting for that then they're more likely to just look unpredictable. Shadoweh's thought process is there but subliminal instead of in-your-face which makes her easier to understand IMO.
See what I said earlier for BT.
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Or actually not sure about Kilga > BT given his recent PX stance.
Whatever. I'm just saying they're both possible buddies still. Will look into this after PX flips.
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It would be better if those two who are the Towniest would stop staring at huhwhat and actually look at other's cases >_<
But they insist!!!
Waffffflllllleeeeessssss
If there are a few hours left in the day and nobody is switching to me, they'll be forced to pick sides from PX/BT. You should know this. Why did you make the vote switch if BT is your preferred lynch?
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Can somebody put PX at L-1 just to see if he's scum and will self-hammer?
Possibly a serious request.
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From my perspective, since you have a higher chance of flipping scum than Koromo, and they have expressed that they're probably switching to Koromo instead of BT, so naturally Koromo has a higher chance of not being lynched. But this is silly, BT still my main suspect.
Unvote
Vote: BT
:smokedcheese: :wikipedia:
Cut by huhwhat :I
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Well, Shadoweh and Kilga both implied slash outright stated they'd rather lynch you than me. I'm not sure where you got the idea voting me was better for survival or even worth doing.
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Because Koromo is pretty irritated with Omba :/
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So would the last 20 or so posts be considered a good enough reason to switch to PX? As much as I'd like to lynch HW also, PX is acting pretty awful
(PS I'm awake now)
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What about PX's posting makes you want to switch? I mean I basically agree, but "awful" is a blanket statement.
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And so I wake in the morning
And I step outside
And I take a deep breath and I get real high
And I scream from the top of my lungs
What's going on?
And I say: HEEEYYYEAAHHYEEEEAAAHHHYEAHHYEAHH
HEYYYYYYEAHHHYEAHHH
I SAID, HEY WHAT'S GOING ON?!
So where the hell is everybody?! ;_;
Cuts: Oh hey
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Switching looks like appeasement, general posting reminds me of Serela's end of day flailing rather then PX's usual resistance to getting lynched.
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Honestly my scumteam read is PX/Huhwhat anyway and I kind of want them both lynched. I haven't been able to buy any of the other cases on the other players so far. Shadoweh looks town for his Serela beatdown, Kilga looks town in general, BT I haven't been convinced is scum yet. Unless I'm forgetting someone that's all the players I have left to suspect.
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Okay NNR, for the last time. The only female who plays mafia currently in MotK is Shadoweh. Everybody else is male.
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I'm gender incompetent shut up
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Also Serela is totally a girl IRC told me so
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Serela's gender is interchangeable.
btw i'm a girl
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Can Koromo be a little girl too?
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btw i'm a girl
Only on even days
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I will help this dead game along.
PX, why should Rex vote BT and not you?
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Looks like PX still keeps posting awkward posts :\ After Kilga posted his initial case against Shadoweh, he said he was a bit convinced, but after that he stopped discussing about Shadoweh and the cases against him together and jumped on BT, then declared Shadoweh (and Kilga) to not be scum without an explanation. I think this might be steering attention away from Shadoweh, but it is also possible that he really stopped thinking Shadoweh was scum and switched to BT. Would like to see his opinion on the case against Shadoweh and clarification of why he no longer thinks Shadoweh can be scum.
Pretty much everyone had posted something icky somewhere down the line, but I can't really tell which ones are scum-motivated and which ones are still possible for town to do. Blaaaaaargh I need to improve motivation detection skillz ;_;
Also, what @ PX's poem thing
-9 cuts- WTH
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I'm back despite technical difficulties that make it really really hard to reread. Since we're all talking about serious issues: I went to pick up ice cream and there was one lone container left on the shelf on sale. I grabbed it and took it home before I realized it was Birthday Cake Ice Cream. BT, I want you to know that you are so delicious. Eating you is ordained by fate.
Seriously though when the newbie is the one being on task we should feel ashamed of ourselves. PX what would you say if I told you I want to hammer your face after thinking about how nonsensical your posts are?
[edible]IT'S MY FAVORITE FLAVOR <3<3<3[/edible]
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Look at your scumteam.
Now look at my scumteam.
Back at yours.
Now back at mine. Sadly, your scumteam is not my scumteam, but it can look like mine.
Look at your hand. Back at me. I have. It is a bus, with the two people you think is scum. Look again. The bus is now diamonds!
Anything is possible when you consider your scumteam and realize why it doesn't make sense.
I'm on a wagon.
You mean to say that huhwhat, with one mislynch left at LyLo, would forgo the implied situation that Kilga proposed, would throw away a chance to lynch Shadoweh, just to bus me? How would that make a smart scum plan at all. And that is why you should vote BT. Because he is the scums with huhwhat. It makes more sense than me.
Cut by wut Shadoweh
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One mislynch to LyLo*
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>my scumteam
>claimed scum
You know what to do.
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Shadoweh's case on Serela is too perfect. Koromo does not see scum Shadoweh pounding on Serela like that on D1 without noticing her scum buddy, and it caused everyone to get on Serela. Additionally, her Kilga defense are still great, and I just can't see her as scum at all.
Here's your answer Rai
Cut. Wut. My scumteam is BT/HW
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Anything is possible when you can't read.
Shadoweh, I'm not delicious. Promise.
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You mean to say that huhwhat, with one mislynch left at LyLo, would forgo the implied situation that Kilga proposed, would throw away a chance to lynch Shadoweh
You're implying I would lynch Shadoweh instead of leaving her alive to LYLO without NKing her on purpose.
I would totally bus you if we were buddies btw.
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Seriously though we shouldn't be arguing scumteams without flips. Why is BT scummier than you? Why am I scum aside from weak PoE? It doesn't look like you're making an effort to read people and it hasn't since D2 began.
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This wagon. She's built like a steak house but she handles like a bistro.
Cut: I've posted a case on BT, Kilga's case expands it more which I agree with, and I've already responded to your case on me. Are people ignoring me on purpose?
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huh what are you scum leaving me alive until LYLO on purpose
PX: If you're pretty sure huh what is scum with BT, why did you make it sound like you didn't think HW was scum literally a few posts ago? >_>
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Vote Count: TSURUPETTAN REMIX (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48D6JPDi8DU) edition
PX (3): huh what, BT, Raitaki
BT (3): Kilgamayan, Shadoweh, PX
huh what (2): NekoNekoRex, Omba,
Not voting: Nobody!
You have ~2.25 hours remaining. With 8 in play, it takes 5 votes to launch.
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Because he's more 30% scum. With BT's scum flip, he becomes 100% scum.
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Okay, here's the deal. I got another 4 hour car trip coming, and this time I'm driving. So how about someone vote me already so I can get going?
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God dammit where did everyone go?!
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huh what are you scum leaving me alive until LYLO on purpose
Yes. not really, but i want to spite people who push policy lynches on facetious scumclaims
Cut: I've posted a case on BT, Kilga's case expands it more which I agree with, and I've already responded to your case on me. Are people ignoring me on purpose?
Because he's more 30% scum. With BT's scum flip, he becomes 100% scum.
If I was ignoring you then I wouldn't be pushing you for not scumhunting right now.
D2 - D3, you haven't really done much other than find a target early on and tunnel. Your approach to other suspects has been to dismiss them, with the exception of me, but I'm only scum because I'm apparently BT's buddy, which is foolhardy since BT hasn't flipped yet. If BT was dayjanvigged by a hidden player third party then who would be the scums? The content you've previously posted does not cover this.
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Here. Reading now.
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Hangmafia?
_
22 lynches to LyLo.
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PX are you scumclaiming?
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Can I join the roleclop?
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Heading home. Will be present to deadline once there.
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Too late. You jerks didn't give me the honor of hammering myself.
As you know, the key to victory is the element of surprise. Surprise!
Unvote
Vote: PX
:V :3
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Oh, and the answer to Hangmafia was Ω
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yeah in hindsight we really should've lynched you d2 over affinity, too bad i suck at this game
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(If it matters, given PX seems to now be trying to get lynched >_>)
Fake edit: o
Fake edit 2: ##Unvote, ##Vote PX
Shadoweh I want all the town credit ever for this
[edible]Vote not registered, requisite amount of emoticons not present.[/edible]
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Koromo congratulates you all. Koromo shall now leave this world in your hands. Also haha hindsight.
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(If it matters, given PX seems to now be trying to get lynched >_>)
Fake edit: o
Fake edit 2: ##Unvote, ##Vote PX :rolleyes:
Shadoweh I want all the town credit ever for this
[edible]Vote not registered, requisite amount of emoticons not present.[/edible]
[/quote]
[edible]Kilgamayan is bad at everything <3[/edible]
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FUCK
[edible]:getdown:[/edible]
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##Unvote
##Vote: PX
>:D :dragonforce:
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NOOOO ALL MY TOWN CRED I JUST PULLED OVER ;_;
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##Unvote
##Vote: PX
>:D :dragonforce:
pfffffffhahahahah
KILGA DENIIIIIIED
(http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/Smileys/default/getdown.gif)
Hammer, shut up <3<3
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And thusly did the Day of Emoticons come to an end:
"Koromo is bored! Koromo is taking the next all-expenses-paid vacation!" She grabbed a bus ticket herself and skipped out of the room. The rest of the cute brigade were saddened to see her go, because LOOK AT HOW CUTE SHE WAS ;_;
Elsewhere, Kilgamayan crashed into a tree.
PX, playing Amae Koromo (http://i.imgur.com/fo67Z.jpg), Mafia Strongman Assassin Sniper Hitman Ninja Vigilante Executioner, has gone on vacation!
It is now Night 3. All players must send me a PM within 24 hours.
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"Hey Omba, guess what?
You can only be confirmed
and live for so long..."
The rest of the players didn't really understand the haiku that was left on a scrap of paper in Kisume's chambers, because it's not like anyone was dying or anything. They assumed Kisume just tripped and fell down a well or something and moved on.
Omba, playing Kisume hopping in her bucket (http://i.imgur.com/Wp69r.png), Town Voyeur, has gone to Permanently Confirmed Land!
It is now Day 4. You have 48 hours to vote. With 6 alive, it takes 4 to launch.
TODAY'S POST RESTRICTION:
##vote is no longer a valid command. To vote someone, you must ##FABULOUS them. color optional, unvotes remain unvotes
Go!
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The Scum Lyncher Strikes Again!
2 mislynches until LyLo. I just officially ran out of leads. vat ve do nao
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Still thinking BT. #564 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg870172.html#msg870172) still stands. Now that one half of the proposed team has flipped scum, the first meaningful line of that post is (I think) worth thinking about. A BT/PX scum team offers a slightly above average reason why Serela accidentally claimed his fakeclaiming strategy, since neither of them were present at the time.
BT says his switch from PX to Affinity was due to reading PX in isolation, but from how I read the post where he voted PX in the first place (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg869257.html#msg869257) combined with his previous post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg869248.html#msg869248), that was also after reading PX in isolation. I'm not sure what would have prompted BT to read PX (and, presumably, Affinity) in isolation, decide PX is worth voting over Affinity, then redo PX in isolation in less than an hour and change his mind completely on it. Worth noting that he doesn't really explain why what Affinity did was scummy, which is remarkably similar to his Serela vote. There's no explanation of why "detached from everything" equals scummy, he misunderstands what Affinity was saying about defending his town read, and there's nothing else there.
I think huh what's played a fine enough game and has just happened to be wrong a couple of times. Happens to the best of us. Also agreement with Shadowert that he'd have less than zero fear of bussing Serela.
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herp derp it's not LYLO
##FABULOUS: BT
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2 mislynches until LyLo.
:V
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Was talking more to myself and my lack of voting BT in my first post.
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I am suddenly filled with the urge to fabulous for everyone.
This has gone on long enough. Three players walk in. Two lynches left. FINAL DESTINATION.
I have discovered something irritating while checking my beautiful votecount chart, trying to compare Kilgamayan and huh what. Kilga doesn't have a voting pattern. Half the time you're just voting Omba and the other half you're unvoted. ISOing doesn't feel like it's showing me more, but as much as I disliked your picking at my Serela case, you didn't ask me anything about the Affinity one, instead pointing out flaws the next day. This is possibly because we were rushed for time, but it looks like there were about two hours for you to question it. Instead you argued with me about what is effectively theory and how you get scum cred. The only other thing I find of note is a lack of mention of PX Day 1 beyond the first early vote for being a liability.
Objectively huh what looks scummier because of vote positions, but he and PX were voting like a block. I don't think scum would do that. I will be rereading huh what to see if this is a possibility. I'm sure one of you is composing the case against me that I'll be addressing later.
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What good would picking at your Affinity case have done that you're comparing it to your Serela case? On Day 1 you weren't coming off a day where you had just slammed a flipped scum with a solid case. >_> I didn't "pick at [your] Serela case" anyway (I agreed with it, in fact!), I picked at the needless fluff at the end that didn't even seen to be a part of the case.
I was on my phone for the entirety of the end of Day 2. Phone rereading is neither easy nor speedy, so all I could really do was vote who I thought scummiest and try to push what I had presented when no one responded to it on their own. Phone rereading PX and Affinity was time-consuming enough.
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Hold on I'm thinking before I make another THERE IS NO WAY BT COULD BE SCUM statement.
... Yeah. Not the kind of prosperous reading I thought it would be, but whatever. PX's D1 felt fine, but D2 is made up of nil but the half-arsed Affinity case and... what Affinity said about me distancing myself from the Omba wagon, only more extreme. (not that I agree with the accusation, hey) For instance, when I did it, it was because I thought the wagon was scum-motivated. PX has literally no reason for it.
Affinity's latest case on me is slightly detached from everything, what with "PX is easy but" and a psyduck.jpg worthy point about not defending my Omba townread when I clearly did while holding back, but yeah, aside from personal oddities he's better than PX.
##Vote PX
cut
##Vote Affinity
Yes, this is that one day in which I flip my reads at least twice.
PX just feels a lot more solid now and meanwhile there are some points being made. In particular, the stance on the Omba wagon between D1 and D2. Let's just say I feel inspired and stuff, because I honestly lack the time and this is where my gut is heading now.
Bed.
or not bed because PX posts
BT, buddy, what exactly made this happen? You know this kind of shows you swing voting off of the scum wagon right?
Edit: Speaking of needless fluff about lurkers. Would you say the lurkiest people Day 1 were PX, Serela and BT? Just saying.
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You know, I've point that change out twice now. You're doing nothing to improve my opinion that you don't actually read my posts. <_<
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>_> It wasn't a signifigant point to me until PX flipped scum. I admit that I've been a little busy to read things in the past. Yesterday I was far too caught up in my own paranoia screaming at me how PX was being nice to me. You're all jerks for ending the day while I was disconnected by the way.
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I'm ded. (http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/616796/) (Danbooru warning)
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asdasd Derp miscounted. Only 1 mislynch until LyLo, not 2 >_>; If it was possible I'd suggest a NL so that the next Day we would only have 4 lynch candidates left (not counting NNR), but Edible doesn't allow NL, so ;_;
Atm, my lynch preferences (based on the jumble of unassorted information and :gut: in my head) are BT > huh what > Kilga/Shadoweh (tie). NNR and myself ofc I won't lynch ;o
I TOLD YOU GUYS I'M SCUM. WHY WOULD YOU BELIEVE THAT JK
Elsewhere, Kilgamayan crashed into a tree.
Hope you guys realize half the things I say while not very srs are lies.
also wat
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##vote is no longer a valid command. To vote someone, you must ##FABULOUS Huhwhat
Huhwhat makes the most sense as PX's buddy imo. PX defends HW, HW's arguments look more like distancing, especially more towards the end of the day.
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Mr. Rex, could you be a bit more specific? I'm aware there are examples of all that, but as a case that's pretty lacking. At the moment I am far more inclined to complement BT's fabulous sprinkle taste. Also even if you are close to confirmed I would like to make sure you aren't coasting on the townie creds.
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Last scum is probs Kilga but I just got home, am tired and don't feel like writing a case (though I have one in my head anyway).
##FABULOUS Kilgamayan until tomorrow morning.
I've decided I don't see scum BT anymore after PX's flip. If they were buddies, they went out of their way to bicker with eachother when they could have combined their votes to lynch a townie and probably have gotten away with it. Distancing wouldn't produce enough cred after BT's D2 flip-flop on PX. 6p LYLO with only the scum flip from a D1 lynch > 6p with 1 largely suspected scum with maybe some slight cred but not enough to carry. If they tried other options first I could maybe see it but BT and PX both gunned for eachother ASAP yesterday.
Also BT reads super town to me tonally but that's probably not worth much.
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I'm not coasting on townie cred, I'm still convinced that the scumteam is Serela/PX/HW
@Mod: IT SURE WOULD BE CONVENIENT IF I HAD SOME LINKS TO POSTS MARKING THE START OF EACH DAY IN THE FIRST POST
PX's last responses to HW don't come off as heavily resisted despite his resistance to other players posting about him. At some point it looks like PX was obvscum and I think HW took priority of that and hammered down PX for ~town creds~ while PX didn't make much of an effort to stop him.
HW case on PX was probably made to put a scum on my D1 wagon because everyone else on the wagon was obvtown and it was either HW or PX (or both, more then likely). Smarter PX scum would have chainsaw'd for similar reasons.
Omba's death was likely done to deflate pressure off HW, since Omba had a power role and was also pushing him.
Also setup specs but BT's claim is more believable then HW. "Cookies and Cream Townie" comes off as too generic.
Also [insert earlier reasons for voting HW here]
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Also setup specs but BT's claim is more believable then HW. "Cookies and Cream Townie" comes off as too generic.
Why isn't your vote on Raitaki?
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"Vanilla Townie" is ironic and makes sense considering his reaction to my Vanilla claim back on D1
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Early post.
BT, buddy, what exactly made this happen? You know this kind of shows you swing voting off of the scum wagon right?
I've already admitted that the switch was an error on my part (which means I can't really defend it) but I *can* show you my thought process at the time.
#431: (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg869248.html#msg869248) "Wagons aren't any of my preferences, instead it's two people I've barely read into. ~_^"
#436: (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg869257.html#msg869257) "Arg, in a hurry, PX D2 is lazy/nonexistent, would rather see him go than Affinity, okay, *vote*"
#444: (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg869278.html#msg869278) "Getting called out for not reading properly when I... still haven't read properly. Okay, fair enough."
#455: (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg869302.html#msg869302) "... <_< PX's D2 is better than I gave it credit for, yet here I am still voting him while nodding to the cases on Affinity and insisting that he's town. HHNNNG *vote*"
I guess "shit happens when you try speedreading two dudes you haven't read before [with a time limit] [at midnight]", because that's pretty much what happened. Also answers Kilga's "ISO'd him twice" which I have no idea where he got that from, considering that I noted more than once that I haven't read the thread properly.
Stuff later.
NNR: Why would Omba's death incriminate anyone at this point? He was 100% town and harder to convince.
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NNR: Why would Omba's death incriminate anyone at this point? He was 100% town and harder to convince.
He was voting HW
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~_~ It'd still be a reasonable (or THE reasonable, fair enough) NK for most parties, though.
EBWOP: "yet here I am still voting him in the mindset of still voting him". Thoughts are hard.
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Also if HW flips scum and it came down to LYLO I would probably lynch Kilgamayan
just a note
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EBWOP: *If HW flips town
That's the alarm saying time for bed
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BT: I thought "Not the kind of prosperous reading I thought it would be, but whatever" meant you had reread. If not, what did it mean?
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It meant that I had read enough to conclude that I still preferred PX over Affinity. Only that it wasn't enough since apparently I like skimming over things and deciding that I understand everything when I don't.
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It's the Analyze the Flip show, with your host, Barely Awake man! Everyone likes the Analyze the Flip show.
One thing that still puzzles me is... whatever the hell went on with PX yesterday.
Because he's more 30% scum. With BT's scum flip, he becomes 100% scum.
He could never put his suspicion to words, instead directly linking it to me bcos buddying. He was pretty much a sure lynch at that point, which makes it hard to believe he was still pushing for my lynch in hopes that it happens. It could be an attempt to trick people into thinking it was distancing, but I don't know how probable that is. Considering that he essentially went for HW scum only if BT scum, it's possible that what he was actually trying to do was distance himself from HW, and that would also explain the weird jump.
In that case, though, HW #545 is completely nonsensical. Town were onto PX on D2, suddenly they're off, buddy PX sets up future Shadoweh vote one post above, obvious time to make a solid PX case. At the very least, he said he suspected PX and Kilga, so the reason his priority (PX over Kilga) wasn't flipped so that town continue to derp is nonexistent. It'd have to be a deliberate attempt to bus on D3 when a mislynch was super probable.
Regarding the post walls:
Kilga, stop watching detective shows :V
All in all, pretty good case on Shadoweh and much of it makes sense to me. Also, it reminded me of Case Closed and was a fun read :V
...
Shadoweh's response was likewise good, but Kilga's was better. Still need to check out people to see who are the scums.
This is that one post above. Oddly enough, he notes that I don't exist but the case magically shows up a bit later. Considering he was setting himself up for a Shadoweh vote, this is interesting, as he proceeds to call her town later. The other person with an off Shadoweh read is Kilga. At first he was pushing for a Shadoweh lynch. Then, he considers my being scum with PX, votes me, stays suspicious of Shadoweh and... PX is more or less uninteresting. His opinion on PX reappears at #593, at which point the PX lynch was well on its way and PX started doing whatever he felt like doing.
Arregggggghhhgggggg
Can't tell who is the other scum, it could be anybody but Omba. If anything, I'm leaning towards HuhWhat for the last scum, but that's only because of his buddying of BT and that's not concrete until BT flips.
And this is because...
I've come to the conclusion that Shadoweh/Kilga can't be scum, so the only one left who could is huhwhat. And I suppose NNR, but that is a very off crapshoot.
Because...
Shadoweh's case on Serela is too perfect. Koromo does not see scum Shadoweh pounding on Serela like that on D1 without noticing her scum buddy, and it caused everyone to get on Serela. Additionally, her Kilga defense are still great, and I just can't see her as scum at all.
You see where I'm going with this. The reason he cleared Shadoweh exists but not the reason he cleared Kilga. His connection to Kilga was minimal, only to state that he agrees with his cases. I don't recall him saying anything more during the rest of the game, too. Not that you're expected to treat your buddies all in the same way, but this is exactly how PX treated Serela.
Flips aside, "One scum between huhwhat/Shadoweh --> Shadoweh is scum --> BT scum actually makes sense with PX --> BT is scum, why aren't you voting the scum Shadoweh? --> Shadoweh still suspicious but not as much as BT" makes little sense if you suspected Shadoweh during all of this. Shadoweh successfully adopted your vote and, seeing as your Shadoweh suspicion has yet to be updated since ~569#, this didn't seem to raise any question marks whatsoever or change your mind. As it is, it could be revived at any given moment.
Together with my #586, this calls for a ##FABULOUS Kilgamayan.
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More suspicion based on what a flipped scum said about a suspect instead of the other way around. :| I don't think it's at all unreasonable to think a scum under pressure (PX) would try to buddy with a townie under pressure (me) in the event the scum gets lynched, for exactly this reason. Related to that, it's worth noting that the vote seems to fit Shadoweh's assessment of your votes as "safe", since I can't address what PX said and that's a good chunk of the post.
I am aware Shadowert voted you after I did. It didn't bother me all that much because I found you worse at that point and she had been expressing tangible dislike for you with quotes and why she disliked them any everything as opposed to what I felt were more general reasons why everyone else was scummy as well. (This is why I had asked her why she wasn't voting you already.) I don't understand why not being suspicious of her vote was/is a bad or scummy thing.
Since you mentioned your #586, which disapproves of the Shadowert/huh what personal dichotomy I had proposed, I suppose I should ask this now that PX has flipped - why would a PX/Kilga scum team kill IHNN Night 2? Why not, say, Omba instead?
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More suspicion based on what a flipped scum said about a suspect instead of the other way around. :| I don't think it's at all unreasonable to think a scum under pressure (PX) would try to buddy with a townie under pressure (me) in the event the scum gets lynched, for exactly this reason. Related to that, it's worth noting that the vote seems to fit Shadoweh's assessment of your votes as "safe", since I can't address what PX said and that's a good chunk of the post.
My post happened to be centered around analyzing the scum flip, so yes, it included things that the flipped scum said and/or did. If you wanted to reply to things that relate to your actions directly, I had earlier posts too. If I were voting you for PX's actions alone, I'd have to consider the vote's accuracy, but they're not the only things supporting my vote.
I am aware Shadowert voted you after I did. It didn't bother me all that much because I found you worse at that point and she had been expressing tangible dislike for you with quotes and why she disliked them any everything as opposed to what I felt were more general reasons why everyone else was scummy as well. (This is why I had asked her why she wasn't voting you already.) I don't understand why not being suspicious of her vote was/is a bad or scummy thing.
Let's say that you suspect Player A. You then suspect Player B as well, to which Player A replies by agreeing and voting Player B. The normal response to this is reconsideration of those suspicions - Are they bussing? How likely would that be? Is only one of them scum? Which one? Et cetera. Your response was to have no response, and at the moment I have no idea what you think of Shadoweh, which was a serious suspicion back on ED3. This wouldn't normally be as interesting as it is, but you happened to consider her arguments, reconsider your reads (while making scumteam assumptions), change main suspicion, have her do the same, all the while still suspecting her like nothing's changed. And, as I mentioned in the previous post, leaving it like that benefits scum since they can re-utilize it whenever they want.
Since you mentioned your #586, which disapproves of the Shadowert/huh what personal dichotomy I had proposed, I suppose I should ask this now that PX has flipped - why would a PX/Kilga scum team kill IHNN Night 2? Why not, say, Omba instead?
Omba was essentially a confirmed VT. Unless he was exceptionally worrying for scum, there'd be no reason for them to not use the kill on suspected PRs instead. (in this case, the cop)
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Let's say that you suspect Player A. You then suspect Player B as well, to which Player A replies by agreeing and voting Player B. The normal response to this is reconsideration of those suspicions - Are they bussing? How likely would that be? Is only one of them scum? Which one? Et cetera. Your response was to have no response, and at the moment I have no idea what you think of Shadoweh, which was a serious suspicion back on ED3. This wouldn't normally be as interesting as it is, but you happened to consider her arguments, reconsider your reads (while making scumteam assumptions), change main suspicion, have her do the same, all the while still suspecting her like nothing's changed.
People can be individually scummy, and scummy people can vote for other scummy people. I'm pretty sure Shadoweh tried to tell you this on Day 1. I'm also pretty sure that I thought Shadoweh's vote should have been on you and was going to go on you before I voted you (#562 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg870164.html#msg870164)), so there was no post-vote reconsideration for me to do anyway. I already knew she suspected you and I had seen her bring more up against you than anyone else, and I had already considered all that when I made my change. Bringing up good points against you doesn't mean the scummy stuff she did just vanished, which was why she was still a suspect.
(For the record, knowing that one scum is remaining, I have a hard time seeing either of Shadoweh's game or huh what's game being a scum game. Off the top of my head I would have to say Shadoweh's case on Serela slightly outweighs the sentiment that huh what would have zero problem bussing Serela, but asking about this is rather pointless because (a) I don't see a Kilga/Shadoweh/huh what/???? LYLO happening, and (b) even if it did I'd want/have to reread them both from scratch and make a judgment call after that, which could very well change from this current opinion.)
And, as I mentioned in the previous post, leaving it like that benefits scum since they can re-utilize it whenever they want.
I'm pretty sure that, if we get to LYLO and I'm alive, I'm going to have to concretely justify whatever vote I make to have any chance that people will listen to me. Just going "Hey remember this Shadoweh case I had??? Well it still applies and imma vote Shadoweh" would get me lynched. So no, I can't just "re-utilize it whenever want."
Omba was essentially a confirmed VT. Unless he was exceptionally worrying for scum, there'd be no reason for them to not use the kill on suspected PRs instead. (in this case, the cop)
- What would qualify Omba as "exceptionally worrying for scum" if he's ostensibly a confirmed VT? The only thing he could do at that point is suspect and vote. But you'll notice that he wanted me dead ahead of everyone else and tends to be pretty stubborn...which seems like it would qualify for "exceptionally worrying" for scum Kilga, doesn't it?
- It is exceedingly unlikely that IHNN was killed because he was a "suspected" PR. Either scum had figured him out with a large degree of certainty (which would, in fact, lend credence to my initial theory) or he was a direct threat to them as a player instead of as a cop. Remember that he couldn't use his ability N2 unless he was willing to give it up for the rest of the game; if scum don't know who the cop is but they know he would be sacrificing his ability for good if he investigated someone N2, they're not going to guess at who he is with their kill on N2 given there was exactly one person in the game that he could get a reliable read on due to the Godmother. I can see scum being willing to guess kill on N3, but not N2.
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whenever want
This should be "whenever (I) want". Curse you, brackets.
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Scum!PX proves some interesting things. Notably, it is impossible for Kilga to be buddies with me or Shadoweh, guaranteeing that a back-to-back Shadoweh / HW lynch would have won him the game. Lining up mislynches seems very possible and he made no attempt to find the non-Shadoweh/HW scum while he was still pushing that. Kilga dropping it when nobody bought it (to the extent that he's basically ignoring Shadoweh and I as targets now) makes it look seriously opportunistic.
Kilga dropping PX between D2 - D3 makes the BT case and false dichotomy appear to be a charade to distract town. Even if the PX case wasn't his "pride and joy of the game", it contained solid points Early that day, Kilga for some reason wasn't hunting for the non-experienced scum (who was most likely PX), and when he switched to BT, there's no indication of him considering PX again. Doesn't seem natural given that he had PX as a side suspicion D2 and later made a decent case on him.
As for why Kilga's PX attacks make sense for scum!Kilga: the actual D2 PX vote doesn't mean much because after BT's switch the lynch was unlikely to pull through over Affinity anyway. A D2 PX lynch would have required Raitaki to not waffle - something I wouldn't expect Kilga to put faith in when he used newb!Raitaki as a reason to support BT scum wrt D1 votals - and then two people two switch over. If I were to guess, it was more likely an attempt to avoid ties to the Affinity wagon than a bus. D3, Kilga saying he'd vote PX over me doesn't actually matter as much as I initially thought cuz (a) PX would've switched back to BT he wasn't an idiot and (b) PX was slowly becoming a lost cause by that point.
Kilga / PX killing IHNN is explained by Kilga figuring out IHNN was a power role, which is why Kilga would press the point of scum figuring that out in the first place when there were other plausible reasons for scum killing IHNN. N2 IHNN was very likely to scan PX. Kilga / PX killing Pesco is because Kilga even said he thinks Pesco is the hardest player to bullshit, and Pesco should be the best at reading Kilga out of anyone here since the two of them have been playing for the longest. Particularly I don't think Pesco would have let the false dichotomy fly at all. I'd assume Pesco is at least decent at reading PX too since they've been buddies and PX got bussed. It's a hard-to-trace kill that removes somebody who looks town and is likely to catch scum later in the game.
I'd appreciate it if everybody supporting BT lynch could respond to my defense of him.
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Also, I think BT / PX would have been more likely to go "oh shit, Shadoweh just lead a wagon on our rolecop, let's shoot her" than shoot Pesco the softclaimed Vanilla Townie just cuz. Neither of them strike me as particularly scared of Pesco and a position for Pesco's Serela vote being a bus could be made.
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Regarding the Serela outing his fakeclaim strategy points, I don't think Serela was actually outing his fakeclaim strategy so much as telling everyone he considered faking VT to hide his cop status and having it come out very, very wrong. Also, while Serela isn't the best player, he's not bad enough that his buddies would be forcing him to paste his posts in the quicktopic for review, something that usually reserved for DeporeJOB-esque newbies who rolled scum on their first game. If his posts aren't being reviewed then there's no reason having a buddy around would stop him from slipping up.
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Vote Count: SAME SAME PATCHOULI (http://i48.tinypic.com/15do8w.gif) edition
Kilgamayan (2): huh what, BT
BT (1): Kilgamayan,
huh what (1): NekoNekoRex
Not voting: Shadoweh, Raitaki
You have ~27 hours remaining. With 6 in play, it takes 4 votes to launch.
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People can be individually scummy, and scummy people can vote for other scummy people. I'm pretty sure Shadoweh tried to tell you this on Day 1. I'm also pretty sure that I thought Shadoweh's vote should have been on you and was going to go on you before I voted you (#562 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg870164.html#msg870164)), so there was no post-vote reconsideration for me to do anyway. I already knew she suspected you and I had seen her bring more up against you than anyone else, and I had already considered all that when I made my change. Bringing up good points against you doesn't mean the scummy stuff she did just vanished, which was why she was still a suspect.
I'm pretty sure that, if we get to LYLO and I'm alive, I'm going to have to concretely justify whatever vote I make to have any chance that people will listen to me. Just going "Hey remember this Shadoweh case I had??? Well it still applies and imma vote Shadoweh" would get me lynched. So no, I can't just "re-utilize it whenever want."
Obviously. The way I see it, though, blankly holding onto suspicions is scummy. When you suspect people, you're constantly examining the surroundings as one of the things that'll help you eventually weed out the real scum. I'm not expecting scum to hold onto suspicions as they are and use them freely - they will get punished for it. The thing is, when you don't make connections between your reads, it allows you to lead mislynch after mislynch. Having a list of "people that did scummy things" to fall back to is what I'm talking about.
- What would qualify Omba as "exceptionally worrying for scum" if he's ostensibly a confirmed VT? The only thing he could do at that point is suspect and vote. But you'll notice that he wanted me dead ahead of everyone else and tends to be pretty stubborn...which seems like it would qualify for "exceptionally worrying" for scum Kilga, doesn't it?
Being right on scum's tail is one thing, but convincing the masses is another. I don't believe Omba was particularly threatening in that regard.
- It is exceedingly unlikely that IHNN was killed because he was a "suspected" PR. Either scum had figured him out with a large degree of certainty (which would, in fact, lend credence to my initial theory) or he was a direct threat to them as a player instead of as a cop. Remember that he couldn't use his ability N2 unless he was willing to give it up for the rest of the game; if scum don't know who the cop is but they know he would be sacrificing his ability for good if he investigated someone N2, they're not going to guess at who he is with their kill on N2 given there was exactly one person in the game that he could get a reliable read on due to the Godmother. I can see scum being willing to guess kill on N3, but not N2.
Oh. I was under the impression the ability was "can be used once on even nights, cannot be used on even nights again thereafter". :l It's still more than plausible that scum were hunting the cop, though, as he'd still have a N1 result and full clearance. Not to mention two results and a clearance if he decided to go rogue.
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Glad to see HW isn't reading my posts either. :V I've already said the dichotomy was only a dichotomy for me. I acknowledged that I could also be considered such a person in the original post, and I pointed out once already that I acknowledged it. This is me doing so again. It was never a dichotomy for anyone else and trying to paint it as such when I admitted so up-front is really disheartening.
Kilga dropping PX between D2 - D3 makes the BT case and false dichotomy appear to be a charade to distract town. Even if the PX case wasn't his "pride and joy of the game", it contained solid points Early that day, Kilga for some reason wasn't hunting for the non-experienced scum (who was most likely PX), and when he switched to BT, there's no indication of him considering PX again. Doesn't seem natural given that he had PX as a side suspicion D2 and later made a decent case on him.
Already addressed the D2 -> D3 PX thing (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg870179.html#msg870179). I switched to BT because I found what I had brought up against him to be stronger than what I had brought up against PX at the end of D2, since it was founded in vote analysis (which the PX case wasn't).
As for why Kilga's PX attacks make sense for scum!Kilga: the actual D2 PX vote doesn't mean much because after BT's switch the lynch was unlikely to pull through over Affinity anyway. A D2 PX lynch would have required Raitaki to not waffle - something I wouldn't expect Kilga to put faith in when he used newb!Raitaki as a reason to support BT scum wrt D1 votals - and then two people two switch over. If I were to guess, it was more likely an attempt to avoid ties to the Affinity wagon than a bus.
I was going to vote for PX before BT's switch, though; my post right before his switch said a post was incoming. And yes, it would have been hard to get the wagons to swing, which was why I was trying to get dialogue going about what I had brought up against him. >_>
The rest of this appears to be speculation that I can't really respond to. If there's something you want directly addressed, though, I'd be glad to if you highlight it.
Your defense for BT seems to ride at least a decent amount on this...
If they were buddies, they went out of their way to bicker with eachother when they could have combined their votes to lynch a townie and probably have gotten away with it.
...which had no real justification for it. Assuming you meant you when referring to the townie they could have combined their votes on, I imagine that BT's Day 2 swing away from PX onto a townie followed up by them combining to get you lynched would not have been something they could have gotten away with at all, unless you think Town Shadoweh and Town me would go at each other's throats in LYLO and not be able to convince each other that the other isn't scum. There's also no guarantee NNR wouldn't turn his head in their direction once your flip proved him wrong.
Also:
Distancing wouldn't produce enough cred after BT's D2 flip-flop on PX.
It's cred you certainly seem to be giving BT now! <_<
Cut by BT, will get to that in a moment
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Obviously. The way I see it, though, blankly holding onto suspicions is scummy. When you suspect people, you're constantly examining the surroundings as one of the things that'll help you eventually weed out the real scum. I'm not expecting scum to hold onto suspicions as they are and use them freely - they will get punished for it. The thing is, when you don't make connections between your reads, it allows you to lead mislynch after mislynch. Having a list of "people that did scummy things" to fall back to is what I'm talking about.
...I've officially lost track of where you're going with this. What is this about a list of people that did scummy things and why does it matter in the way you are presenting this point? ??? I already said I don't have any such thing to "fall back on" because, AGAIN, if I tried to serve any such case up in LYLO and not do anything else with it I'd be lynched. If you're saying that me bringing up scummy things Shadoweh did during a total LYLO reread with some of those scummy things overlapping things I mentioned about her in that large post is scummy, then...I don't even know what the hell.
Being right on scum's tail is one thing, but convincing the masses is another. I don't believe Omba was particularly threatening in that regard.
There were no less than two non-Omba people that suspected me at the end of D2 - you and Shadoweh had stated distaste for me. People may not have paid his case much mind on D2 because it didn't line up with their top suspects, but I'm willing to bet you're more willing to listen to a case about your top suspect than one about someone you kinda suspect but don't prefer as a lynch.
Oh. I was under the impression the ability was "can be used once on even nights, cannot be used on even nights again thereafter". :l
Source on this mod clarification, because that's not what the opening post says:
1 Rogue Cop (May target a player on odd nights to learn their alignment; may use this ability on Even nights but loses the ability thereafter)
Loses "the ability", not "the ability on even nights". Seems like the cop is gone for good after a D2 investigation to me.
It's still more than plausible that scum were hunting the cop, though, as he'd still have a N1 result and full clearance. Not to mention two results and a clearance if he decided to go rogue.
No guarantee the cop hasn't investigated, say, Affinity, nor a guarantee that the cop hadn't investigated the Godmother. Also the cop has clearance regardless, so cop guessing on N2 means forgoing killing a confirmed town they know for the chance to killing a confirmed town they don't know. What if they miss? Then Omba's still around and the cop is still lurking somewhere.
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I'm willing to bet you're more willing to listen to a case about your top suspect than one about someone you kinda suspect but don't prefer as a lynch.
Clarification: This is the impersonal "you" and does not mean BT specifically.
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Glad to see HW isn't reading my posts either. :V I've already said the dichotomy was only a dichotomy for me. I acknowledged that I could also be considered such a person in the original post, and I pointed out once already that I acknowledged it. This is me doing so again. It was never a dichotomy for anyone else and trying to paint it as such when I admitted so up-front is really disheartening.
When did you first say it wasn't a dichotomy for anybody other than you? I don't remember this coming up until today, which is why I didn't put much stock in it. Re-reading your first few dichotomy posts I don't see anything about the dichotomy being personal. If it wasn't stated in the initial post or shortly afterwards, then from town's perspective you were pushing it on them at that time. Plus you still weren't looking into PX, BT, etc until after a dialogue with Shadoweh from what I can tell.
Already addressed the D2 -> D3 PX thing (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg870179.html#msg870179). I switched to BT because I found what I had brought up against him to be stronger than what I had brought up against PX at the end of D2, since it was founded in vote analysis (which the PX case wasn't).
At the time, though, I had posted a PX vote which actually contained voted analysis (him parking on Rex then not bothering to post a stance when it mattered most) which could have been considered. There were more points against PX aside from the end-of-D2 case and you didn't really put much thought toward them in your posts.
I was going to vote for PX before BT's switch, though; my post right before his switch said a post was incoming. And yes, it would have been hard to get the wagons to swing, which was why I was trying to get dialogue going about what I had brought up against him. >_>
Can't really judge whether this is a solid defense or not since there was a 14 minute gap between his post and yours, and since I don't own your phone I can't evaluate whether you would have been able to to alter it to change who you were voting or etc in time or not. I also don't know how much of your post you had written up when you made the "incoming" post, so this becomes a take-your-word-for-it thing which is kind of questionable when this is Mafia and I think you're scum.
I do think it's worth pointing out that similiarly, BT had unvoted PX and telegraphed a potential switch before you made your "incoming" post.
Alternately since you have to be the Godfather it's still possible you wanted to bus PX if you thought you knew who the tracker was. This isn't very solid though.
...which had no real justification for it. Assuming you meant you when referring to the townie they could have combined their votes on, I imagine that BT's Day 2 swing away from PX onto a townie followed up by them combining to get you lynched would not have been something they could have gotten away with at all, unless you think Town Shadoweh and Town me would go at each other's throats in LYLO and not be able to convince each other that the other isn't scum. There's also no guarantee NNR wouldn't turn his head in their direction once your flip proved him wrong.
It's not impossible for them to squeeze out of depending on how they handle it. BT waits until 6p LYLO then busses PX with a strong case and prays for the best, BT and PX shoot Rex N3 and hope to convince Omba to go for you again, etc. It would have looked bleak, but it would have looked bleak for pretty much any possible PX/??? scumteam D3 and I think they would've expected to have an easier time getting away with a mislynch.
It's cred you certainly seem to be giving BT now! <_<
Because I don't think scum!BT would have expected to receive this cred. This is more a player evaluation thing so whatevs.
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When did you first say it wasn't a dichotomy for anybody other than you? I don't remember this coming up until today, which is why I didn't put much stock in it. Re-reading your first few dichotomy posts I don't see anything about the dichotomy being personal. If it wasn't stated in the initial post or shortly afterwards, then from town's perspective you were pushing it on them at that time. Plus you still weren't looking into PX, BT, etc until after a dialogue with Shadoweh from what I can tell.
The very first disclaimer acknowledged that it was not actually a dichotomy:
Disclaimer 1: I am fully aware that people may believe the following is applicable to myself as well.
I brought up immediately that the entire thing was applicable to me (or potentially, at least, since I wasn't sure what people would think of me and that sort of rolehunting). If you find it an issue that I didn't repeatedly point this out throughout that post then I don't know what to tell you.
At the time, though, I had posted a PX vote which actually contained voted analysis (him parking on Rex then not bothering to post a stance when it mattered most) which could have been considered. There were more points against PX aside from the end-of-D2 case and you didn't really put much thought toward them in your posts.
I didn't have the time. I'm also pretty sure I said this already. Phone rereading is not an easy or speedy thing.
Can't really judge whether this is a solid defense or not since there was a 14 minute gap between his post and yours, and since I don't own your phone I can't evaluate whether you would have been able to to alter it to change who you were voting or etc in time or not. I also don't know how much of your post you had written up when you made the "incoming" post, so this becomes a take-your-word-for-it thing which is kind of questionable when this is Mafia and I think you're scum.
It's an Android 2 Global using 3G, for what that's worth. There's a built-in keyboard, but no mouse, and it's no end of obnoxious trying to highlight large swaths of text for copying or deleting.
I do think it's worth pointing out that similiarly, BT had unvoted PX and telegraphed a potential switch before you made your "incoming" post.
I realize he had unvoted, but the unvote didn't seem to come with any reasoning why it was there, so it seemed like a tenuous unvote at best. Not a difficult thing to persuade back.
Alternately since you have to be the Godfather it's still possible you wanted to bus PX if you thought you knew who the tracker was. This isn't very solid though.
I'm not sure what being the GF has to do with that anyway, since the Tracker would see the GF on the move.
It's not impossible for them to squeeze out of depending on how they handle it. BT waits until 6p LYLO then busses PX with a strong case and prays for the best, BT and PX shoot Rex N3 and hope to convince Omba to go for you again, etc. It would have looked bleak, but it would have looked bleak for pretty much any possible PX/??? scumteam D3 and I think they would've expected to have an easier time getting away with a mislynch.
Why?
Because I don't think scum!BT would have expected to receive this cred. This is more a player evaluation thing so whatevs.
Oh. Well. Not really something I can address there. :|
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Excerpt quotes from Kilga
There's also no guarantee NNR wouldn't turn his head in their direction once your flip proved him wrong.
Eh? What's this have to do with me now? I read Shadoweh as town, and BT as Leaning Town. Only scum left are between HW/Kilga
No guarantee the cop hasn't investigated, say, Affinity, nor a guarantee that the cop hadn't investigated the Godmother. Also the cop has clearance regardless, so cop guessing on N2 means forgoing killing a confirmed town they know for the chance to killing a confirmed town they don't know. What if they miss? Then Omba's still around and the cop is still lurking somewhere.
Cop can't town clear in a game with a confirmed Godmother, Kilga.
Kilga defenses are not convincing me in the slightest.
Also what the fuq is a dichotomy?
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Eh? What's this have to do with me now? I read Shadoweh as town, and BT as Leaning Town. Only scum left are between HW/Kilga
I was referencing a situation where huh what gets lynched D3 and flips town, which would mean your suspicions would have to go elsewhere, very possibly in the BT/PX direction.
Cop can't town clear in a game with a confirmed Godmother, Kilga.
This is true and one of my points in that post! Thank you for agreeing! The clearance, however, refers to the cop themselves, because they can self-clear by claiming (unless scum felt like counterclaiming).
Also what the fuq is a dichotomy?
Choice between exactly two things. Yes/No, True/False, etc. Always/Sometimes/Never is not a dichotomy because there are three choices.
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Wait, haven't responded to Kilga's post yet, but just noticed this while re-reading:
When BT switched to Serela, he had basically no telegraphed opinions on any of the wagons. He could have easily gotten Rex to L-1 by voting then having Serela post a Not Me over Me, or I guess pushed for Omba's lynch if he wanted to so that he wouldn't be on the same counterwagon as PX (less effective though). Voting Serela was essentially throwing Serela away completely and I believe that scum would want to avoid a D1 scumlynch whenever possible since townies are fickle creatures and could easily waffle away the following day. Plus they rationalize enough that BT wouldn't be a surefire lynch after swingvote even if Serela was lynched the next day.
This might make sense if BT's other buddy was on Serela too, but we already know this wasn't the case.
So uh, I really don't think BT is the scum here. Given D3 then if he is then this is like super Serelaffinity-level bussing when it's not necessary at all and possibly even detrimental to scum which is pretty woah.
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Scum have bussed D1 and won the game. In fact, in Invasion, two of VGT's buddies were on him for a while and the one that wasn't ended up hammering. Avoiding a D1 scumlynch is desirable, but if there's a reasonable chance of it happening I imagine they'd want to get at least one person on the wagon.
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Actually BT had said stuff about NNR, just not Serela/Omba. Negative stuff too, which actually makes me feel stronger about this.
Though actually now I'm waffling about this because Kilga cut + scum going for a superbussing game is significantly more understandable when their buddies are Serela and PX.
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When BT switched to Serela, he had basically no telegraphed opinions on any of the wagons. He could have easily gotten Rex to L-1 by voting then having Serela post a Not Me over Me, or I guess pushed for Omba's lynch if he wanted to so that he wouldn't be on the same counterwagon as PX (less effective though). Voting Serela was essentially throwing Serela away completely and I believe that scum would want to avoid a D1 scumlynch whenever possible since townies are fickle creatures and could easily waffle away the following day. Plus they rationalize enough that BT wouldn't be a surefire lynch after swingvote even if Serela was lynched the next day.
And that's why BT reads to me as town right now
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Also, NNR, if you could outline what about my defenses you don't like (assuming they aren't based on misunderstandings like the second thing you mentioned), I'd be happy to address them for you.
Going out for a while, but will have my phone and a charger, so I will try to keep posting because I love you all that much <3
Fake Edit: NNR, read my most recent post.
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Scum have bussed D1 and won the game. In fact, in Invasion, two of VGT's buddies were on him for a while and the one that wasn't ended up hammering. Avoiding a D1 scumlynch is desirable, but if there's a reasonable chance of it happening I imagine they'd want to get at least one person on the wagon.
That would make more sense if my case wasn't neck and neck with Serela, to the point that any one vote could have made the difference. There was very huge pushing for my wagon, you see. If Serela hadn't screwed up her being scum completely I was pretty well assured I was doomed. I think scum are greedier then to jump on Serela in the middle of this.
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Considering his actions, though, scum!BT would have decided to superbus D1 when he could have probably gotten away with lynching NNR, bussed again D2 when it was detrimental only to pull back at the last possible moment, then bussed a third time D3 knowing that people suspected him, were pushing a possible PX/BT and for all he knew would probably find his late D2 suspect after PX's flip.
This really just looks suicidal to me. All-or-nothing play is a possibility I guess but he had no way of knowing he was gonna lynch the tracker D2 even if he was the Godfather. Fuckit I still don't think BT is the scum.
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NNR: The competing D1 wagons in Invasion were also neck-and-neck for most of the day, as I recall that game.
HW: BT may also have been hoping NNR would get lynched anyway. I describe how reasonable this possibility it in my D3 vote for him. Serela lynch wasn't a guarantee before or after BT's vote: even with Shadoweh's case, the case on NNR was good enough that you and Pesco preferred it.
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More suspicion based on what a flipped scum said about a suspect instead of the other way around.
Flipped scum only say scummy things. Players in the game can either be "scum who say scummy things" or "town who say stupid things". Therefore, scum posts are more valuable then town posts.
Also tbh I don't think BT is clever enough or skilled enough to be able to pull an Ultrabus at all, and I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be in his best interest to do so under any circumstance sans being forced to.
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Scum posts can also be made with the fallout from that scum's lynch in mind. I'm pretty sure that, in every single game where I've played scum, at least one scum has gone out of their way to say things they knew would incriminate a specific townie should that scum get lynched.
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But that's reaching far to prove your point
Which says the same about aot of your points, actually. That's what akes them less credibe. Your cases reach really far to try and incriminate players. Yesterday's "One scum between Shadoweh/BT (assuming I remember right)" was Mr Fantastic levels of arm reaching considering they were both important components of my D1 lynch, as opposed to the far more obvious " at least one between PX/HW" that most other players (including myself) were focused on.
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*of Serela's D1 lynch
im still aive and in the game i swear
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NNR: How is it a stretch if it happens pretty much all the time? >_> It happens often enough that it needs to be seriously considered. Scum do it precisely because they know people will think that way. That's why their words aren't credible in that regard. Remember, like you said, scum words are scum-motivated.
I'm assuming the position you're thinking of is the Shadoweh/HW thing, which I'll admit certainly looks like it's wrong. How was Shadoweh instrumental to your D1 wagon, though, and how does that make "a lot of my points" a stretch? That was hardly my only attempt at scumhunting.
Fake edit: HW wasn't instrumental to the Serela wagon, so the point is moot regardless.
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I'm assuming the position you're thinking of is the Shadoweh/HW thing, which I'll admit certainly looks like it's wrong. How was Shadoweh instrumental to your D1 wagon, though, and how does that make "a lot of my points" a stretch? That was hardly my only attempt at scumhunting.
Fake edit: HW wasn't instrumental to the Serela wagon, so the point is moot regardless.
Oh, so I did remember wrong. I guess that makes my above post a bit more moot then.
Finding posts in a 23 page topic without any links in the OP makes finding cases harder
I still think your case on BT is awfully far-reaching though. If you think there's scum between HW/Shadoweh why aren't you voting HW right now?
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I don't think there's scum between them now, since PX flipped and I think BT is the last scum.
What about the BT case is a stretch? Give me specific things so I can discuss them with you. For reference, the original case is in #564.
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And before anyone asks, yes, this means I believe that original post about Shadoweh/HW was incorrect and I don't believe it to be the case anymore.
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So with that logic, you'd have no options left if BT flipped town. That's not very secure Town thinking, Kilga. Why don't you have a LYLO option?
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Second paragraph of #667 addresses that question already.
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That's a BT post, not a LYLO option.
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Whoops. It's actually #677, sorry.
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Here, have a link. I can't possibly screw up the number that way.
http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg871180.html#msg871180
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Why don't you think HW is more viable scum? HW as part of a scum voting block isn't anything new, considering the last few games. What convinces you that this game is different?
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Assuming you're asking about HW vs. BT, I think HW's votes have been, in general, better justified and more sincere.
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I meant in a HW vs Shadoweh
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Although I guess HW vs BT applies too in this situation
Uhhhh, I'm running out of things to ask.
What's your opinion on HW given that he's voting you over other players right now?
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Well, if you meant HW vs. Shadoweh, I do think HW is the more viable scum at present. >_>
I still think he's much townier than BT, and even though he's voting me I think he's at least showing decent rationale, and doesn't seem dead-set on seeing me die. His speculations about the scum team interactions are at least understandable from a town HW point of view (even if I know they're wrong).
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Ooooh my god you guys cut me 44 times. Rereading PX for relevant opinions:
I remember Conqueror saying PX had a habit of only answering questions from his scummates.
There's something interesting I can note immediately from reading PX. He never read Kilga's posts. He answers some of huh what's questions, some of Neko's, but when he's saying how good Kilga's case is he never well.. brings up anything about the case. This is both suspicious because holy shit he never reads Kilga or answers anything he says, and not suspicious because.. he's not reading what Kilga says.
In contrast to huh what and BT, whose cases he acknowledged and answered questions from. Hmm. It's possible he's guilty of the same crime as Serela this time, just ignoring his buddies.
Serela (5): NekoNekoRex, Shadoweh, IHNN, Raitaki, BT
NekoNekoRex (5): PX, Pesco, huh what, Omba, Serela
Omba (2): Kilgamayan, Affinity
Affinity (5): Shadoweh, PX, huh what, Omba, BT
PX (4): IHNN, NNR, Kilgamayan, Raitaki
BT (1): Affinity
PX (3): huh what, BT, Raitaki
BT (3): PX, Kilgamayan, Shadoweh
huh what (2): NekoNekoRex, Omba
(I'm ignoring the exact end of day votecounts because Edible didn't put them up they were bum rushes after both scum were confirmed.) For huh what to be scum, it would mean that the scum were allergic to bussing until Day 3 when huh what decided to throw PX off a cliff. For Kilga it would mean he dodged the wagon entirely Day 1, then SUPERBUS, then who is this PX it is obv BT and Shadoweh. The only difference between BT and huh what is Day 1 wagons. BT was stubborn about OMGUS on IHNN, while huh what was stubborn about the newbie being EVOL. huh what was part of the Omba wagon with Kilga though. The other thing about Day 3 is if PX was suiciding I don't think scum would have been defending him at that point, it would make them look awful when he went LOLSCUM.
Mmmm. I'm going to read all the cuts while I waffle like a tree made of Serelas. If we didn't have another mislynch I'd be freaking out right now.
Re: IHNN kill, he was after PX too and it would make sense for the stronger scum to kill in defense of him since he was the weak link. That IHNN might have been the cop is like another 4 stars.
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(Also I hate using irl excuses but if it weren't so far into the game I would consider replacing out due to not being sure if I'll have a connection at any point in time. I apologize for basically leaving you guys to argue with each other.)
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Going to bed. I guess this is the point where I start rehashing some things, since my dialogues seem to have stagnated? I don't much like repeating myself but I guess I could ask the following question.
HW/NNR: Out of curiosity, what do you two think of BT having zero case on either of the Day 2 lynchees despite voting for both of them? Remember that his one point against Affinity was a misinterpretation of part of Affinity's case and he said nothing about why Serela was scummy.
(Either of you might have already addressed this, in which case feel free to link/provide post number.)
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Fabulouscount is unchanged. Raitaki has been prodded.
You have 16 hours or something, I'm bad at math. I don't even know what time it is ;_;
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NNR: Until you've read a 40 page Day 1 you have nothing to complain about.
Having read the walls and checked out the super cool cases, I have decided to vote Raitaki for sleeping through them show my appreciation of fashion to the ##FABULOUS huh what. Out of the cases I believe his right now are the ones most based on defending other players and using the word dichotomy way too much. Kilga, to put it oddly, isn't usually this much of a jerk as scum. BT.. I like this show and I dont want tosell his radiot. D:
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GURK
Ok let me do a once more from the top middle and see if I come up with anything :getdown:
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Lemme list a few quirks I've found while rereading...
BT lynch does not look like it's happening, so
Unvote
Vote: huhwhat
Consider this more Not me Over Me, as I don't really have anything solid and prefer BT. 8)
+ This post and the anti-BT ones before it look like distancing from BT to me. Pushed for BT lynch for a (short) while, say that HW lynch isn't happening blah blah blah, then after seeing only two of the other players not being willing to vote BT, he decided that a BT lynch was impossible and switched to HW after TWICE admitting that he had nothing concrete against HW. Assuming town!BT, scum!PX would have just left his vote with BT imo, as it would make him look scummy to switch to HW without good reason, and the people not voting HW at the time weren't fond of a HW lynch either. This looks like a doomed PX trying to distance from BT, then pulling out to not draw too much attention to BT to me.
Position: At least one of Shadoweh and huh what is scum.
Jumping in really quick to say that I prefer a PX lynch to a huh what lynch. They're equals in terms of raw end-of-day positioning but I've felt huh what's cases have been stronger throughout the game than PX's have been. Stuff I brought up near the end of Day 2 also still stands.
+ If you think at least one between Shadoweh and HW is scum, why did you only focus on Shadoweh and not point out why HW is scummy as well? Furthermore, some time afterwards you suddenly declared that you'd prefer a PX lynch over a HW lynch for reasons that already have been valid throughout the game without making any additional points against PX. What was the reason of suspecting PX more after you've declared HW as one of your major suspects (and not making a case against him)? Is this because you thought if either BT or PX flips scum they must be scumbuddies, and if yes, why?
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Blargh. Gone for the next 4 hours or so. Again ;_;
Will finish my once-again-from-the-topmiddle later. The parts I did read manage to bump Kilga up my list of lynch targets, and he's now right behind BT. For the time being, I'll ##FABULOUS BT.
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Raitaki: By the time I had switched to BT, it was because I had been convinced a BT/PX scum team was possible despite my initial decision that one of HW and Shadowy had to be scum due to the IHNN kill. Once I opened that up to myself, I preferred a PX lynch to a HW lynch because PX was individually scummier. I didn't necessarily think they has to be scumbuddies, but I found it the most likely possibility at the time.
The original Shadowy case didn't include HW stuff mostly because suspecting them was based on the IHNN kill rather than a buildup of scummy things from both of them and I felt exposing Shadowy was more important, and partly because I didn't have the time - I needed to prepare for and then properly go to bed so I wasn't dead at work the next morning.
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...I've officially lost track of where you're going with this. What is this about a list of people that did scummy things and why does it matter in the way you are presenting this point? ??? I already said I don't have any such thing to "fall back on" because, AGAIN, if I tried to serve any such case up in LYLO and not do anything else with it I'd be lynched. If you're saying that me bringing up scummy things Shadoweh did during a total LYLO reread with some of those scummy things overlapping things I mentioned about her in that large post is scummy, then...I don't even know what the hell.
At one point you suspected me, Shadoweh, PX and to some degree huhwhat. What I 'felt', you could say, was that you were leaving options open.
Source on this mod clarification, because that's not what the opening post says:
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Loses "the ability", not "the ability on even nights". Seems like the cop is gone for good after a D2 investigation to me.
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No guarantee the cop hasn't investigated, say, Affinity, nor a guarantee that the cop hadn't investigated the Godmother. Also the cop has clearance regardless, so cop guessing on N2 means forgoing killing a confirmed town they know for the chance to killing a confirmed town they don't know. What if they miss? Then Omba's still around and the cop is still lurking somewhere.
Mmm, no, I said that because I realized that I was wrong, I wasn't arguing about it. Anyway, I can't see this point as conclusive either way. PX/Kilga isn't made more likely by the choice of NK but it isn't made unlikely either. I can't enter the minds of the scumteam and figure out why they chose to kill IHNN instead; there may have been a very compelling reason to, which I am unaware of.
To be frank, a lot of your recent points have been similar or identical to "scum have done this before". Yes, Mafia is a game in which anything can very well happen. What's the likelihood, though? Bringing up possibilities is one thing, but showing that they're the likely truth behind what's going on is another.
Lemme list a few quirks I've found while rereading...+ This post and the anti-BT ones before it look like distancing from BT to me. Pushed for BT lynch for a (short) while, say that HW lynch isn't happening blah blah blah, then after seeing only two of the other players not being willing to vote BT, he decided that a BT lynch was impossible and switched to HW after TWICE admitting that he had nothing concrete against HW. Assuming town!BT, scum!PX would have just left his vote with BT imo, as it would make him look scummy to switch to HW without good reason, and the people not voting HW at the time weren't fond of a HW lynch either. This looks like a doomed PX trying to distance from BT, then pulling out to not draw too much attention to BT to me.
Then what would be the point of PX's distancing in the first place? Switching for no reason would ruin that entirely, more or less. By the by, it's my opinion that PX was doomed at that time anyway. Also, my own wagon wasn't the epitome of likelihood either. The only lynch with a sizable chance of happening at the time was PX's. (see: PX was doomed at the time anyway)
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Vote Count: teamwork (http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m0654zCA0d1r7uiy0o1_250.gif) edition
Kilgamayan (2): huh what, BT
BT (2): Kilgamayan, Raitaki
huh what (2): NekoNekoRex, Shadoweh
Not voting: Nobody!
You have ~5.45 hours remaining. With 6 in play, it takes 4 votes to launch.
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Oh. And I don't plan on switching to HW. Shadoweh, I'm actually curious as to what you're referring to by Kilga being a jerk, since I don't feel that he has been one, if that's relevant to anything.
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I don't particularly feel like arguing in Mafia right now.
I kind of want to kneejerk OMGUS Shadoweh because that post where she voted me is really flimsy given that she had 24 hours and then failed to take in account flips because "my cases are based on defending people" (not true) and "Kilga is a jerk" (also not true).
@Kilga: I already said I think the lack of content makes the D1 vote look more like a player placing their vote somewhere useful before leaving than an intentional bus. D2 is a mark against him but doesn't undo the cred from the rest of his patterns which still make him have to be incredibly gutsy-suicidal to be scum as far as I'm concerned.
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Raitaki, I'm pretty sure PX's BT-HW-BT waffle is worthless. PX is pretty self-aware and would realize he was a sinking ship at that point. Switching between wagons for no visible reason to WIFOM people after his death is kinda the usual from scum-him. At the least it should be ignored, at most it implies BT is town who PX wanted to set up.
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At one point you suspected me, Shadoweh, PX and to some degree huhwhat. What I 'felt', you could say, was that you were leaving options open.
But all that would still go out the window in LYLO, so...?
Unless you mean throughout the course of the game, in which case this is why I try to justify opinion changes when it comes to votes.
To be frank, a lot of your recent points have been similar or identical to "scum have done this before". Yes, Mafia is a game in which anything can very well happen. What's the likelihood, though? Bringing up possibilities is one thing, but showing that they're the likely truth behind what's going on is another.
If you're going to ask about probabilities, I will say that, in my experience, scum have tried to tie themselves to innocent townies in the event of that scum's death far more often than not., especially when the scum is under pressure but not yet a forgone lynch. Obviously I know for sure that PX was trying to set me up as a mislynch following his death, but looking at pure outsider empirical evidence the odds are still a good deal greater than 50%.
@Kilga: I already said I think the lack of content makes the D1 vote look more like a player placing their vote somewhere useful before leaving than an intentional bus. D2 is a mark against him but doesn't undo the cred from the rest of his patterns which still make him have to be incredibly gutsy-suicidal to be scum as far as I'm concerned.
Then did you ever address this and why you think it's wrong (since you must think it's wrong if you think the Serela vote was a suicidal bus)?
I do now find myself wondering about BT's Serela vote. It came when the wagons were tied, but the NNR wagon was gaining momentum, and NNR had already voted Serela, so really NNR was effectively a vote closer to lynch. Raitaki was also on the Serela wagon and was probably the most unpredictable opinion/vote at that time due to being a newbie used to a different style of play while we're still on Day 1, so it was hardly a guarantee he'd stay on Serela. In retrospect, BT's vote-then-leave is less risky as a bus than it seemed at the time for these reasons. The one thing that bothers me is that I don't know why he wouldn't try to justify it more than he did if bussing was really his intention.
If you plan on telling me that BT's vote doomed Serela or some such then I will want to see gobs of evidence for it. Point out people that were definitely going to vote for Serela over NNR, as well as people voting Serela that had no chance of changing their minds, as well as people voting NNR over Serela that had a reasonable chance of changing their minds.
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Hm. Since Affinity wouldn't have been around to switch, most scenarios I can think of end in tied votes with you as tiebreaker. Shadoweh and Rex obviously weren't switching, and IHNN and Raitaki had expressed disinterest, so people on Serela migrating was unlikely. Scum couldn't tell which wagon you would have preferred at the time, so counting on the Rex vote pulling ahead after BT's vote is pretty risky and explicitly puts scum in a position where they have no control or expectation of what's going to happen. If they didn't care what happened to Serela then it's plausible.
If Affinity somehow was going to be around to switch then Serela was basically screwed.
Ultimately I still don't think scum BT is plausible in conjunction with the rest of his play, though - again, he'd have to be making a move to gain town cred, followed by a switch that would look horrible with PX's flip, and then on D3 he hardbusses PX with the knowledge that people want him dead and no reason to expect a PX flip would out-WIFOM people instead of making him look even worse based on the end of D2. Buddy PX is trying to make it look like they're together with the HW switch during all this too.
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So, that Kilga vote of mine that still exists:
I still don't buy the dichotomy being AOK. I understand where he's coming from with it applying to him and being personal, but if he didn't want to push it on others... why didn't he just make it a side remark instead of giving it his own post? "I wouldn't be surprised if one of Shadoweh and HW were scum, since they're still alive, the cop died over them and I wouldn't expect anybody else to figure it out though. Also I understand if people think this applies to me too." would have summed it up quickly and not even required its own post. If the dichotomy was supposed to be entirely personal I don't see the need to give it its own flashy explanation, especially coming from somebody who values being concise.
Can't really respond to claims of him not really having the time since how much time one has isn't alignment-related, but I think that Kilga's late D2 PX vote should have at least compelled him to split what little time he had between reading BT and PX more evenly.
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And since I never addressed this: NNR, if scum!HW wanted to make a defensive kill, why would he shoot Omba and not you? You both had basically negative chances of getting lynched, only Omba was barely doing anything to push his case D3 and less likely to tunnel than you, given that he wasn't the one who said "I think HW/PX are the scumteam" at the end of the day.
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Would also like to point NNR to this if he's missed it.
In that case, though, HW #545 is completely nonsensical. Town were onto PX on D2, suddenly they're off, buddy PX sets up future Shadoweh vote one post above, obvious time to make a solid PX case. At the very least, he said he suspected PX and Kilga, so the reason his priority (PX over Kilga) wasn't flipped so that town continue to derp is nonexistent. It'd have to be a deliberate attempt to bus on D3 when a mislynch was super probable.
Can stay online for no longer than 20 minutes.
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Can stay online for no longer than 20 minutes.
Last Active:
Today at 01:48:01 pm
:wat:
also we kinda only have 2 hours left, just saiyan
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And since I never addressed this: NNR, if scum!HW wanted to make a defensive kill, why would he shoot Omba and not you? You both had basically negative chances of getting lynched, only Omba was barely doing anything to push his case D3 and less likely to tunnel than you, given that he wasn't the one who said "I think HW/PX are the scumteam" at the end of the day.
Omba has a power role
Anyways, I've put a lot of thought into this game day and since we're now at the most ridiculous triple even wagon ever I'm going to be the one to do something about it.
##Unvote
##FABULOUS: Kilgamayan (L-1)
Reasons for voting BT are just flimsy, all points aside. When only the newb can buy a case you know there's no hope for it. It's clearly a gambit to prevent a HW=>Kilga lynch lineup, but it's not going to work.
Huhwhat I can leave off the hook for now, although I do completely intend to lynch him if I live tomorrow (although I don't think I will) in the off chance Kilga flips town (at this point I doubt it)
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Omba's power role couldn't actually do anything with all the other power roles dead, though.
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It's good cover
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Oh. And I don't plan on switching to HW. Shadoweh, I'm actually curious as to what you're referring to by Kilga being a jerk, since I don't feel that he has been one, if that's relevant to anything.
He certainly hasn't been nice to people. I don't get the impression Kilga is here to make friends, which is different from how understanding he was as Tenshi, and similar to how he played in Angel Beats. If I were to just take the votes alone I would call him the scum, but I just can't do it. The fact that you guys haven't noticed how snipey Kilga has been to me makes me hate you all.
Huh what on the other hand has a habit of giving up when he's scum, and his fuckitall post actually has me more convinced that he's scum then town. He's also spent more time looking at the whys of why townies been doing things then what makes people scum. I do not feel the power of jesus in him today.
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Vote Count: Kitties jumping in slow-motion (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ympuwy9lLLg) edition
Kilgamayan (3): huh what, BT, NekoNekoRex
BT (2): Kilgamayan, Raitaki
huh what (1): Shadoweh
Kilgamyon is at L-1!
Not voting: Nobody!
You have ~1.75 hours remaining. With 6 in play, it takes 4 votes to launch.
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The reason I posted something along the lines of "fuckit" is because I've re-read BT while waffling like twenty times trying to listen to people pushing his case but still don't think he makes sense as scum and it's kinda annoying.
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NNR: Why are my reasons for the BT vote flimsy? I can't do dialogue with generic buzzwords.
##Unvote, ##FABULOUS: huh what since I would rather not die and it appears I can't get BT lynched. Not really convinced HW is scum but I'm not convinced he's townier than me.
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Heading out, will not be back before deadline, but will have phone and will try to pay attention.
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It's just too far-reaching to make any sense. BT's not good enough to superbus anyone and take the game, and I don't think he'd bother risking it when he's not going to get much town cred from the act.
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You're giving him that town cred now! <_<
I don't get the argument (from anyone) that BT was at major risk of carrying a superbus win home after my Shadoweh vs. HW post; knowing PX was leaking buddying poison in my direction, he would have known I could get lynched over that post after PX flipped, and with NNR refusing to give up on HW despite all counterarguments, there's his LYLO mislynch.
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"BT at major risk" meaning that he would have had an extremely tough time doing so.
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I'd argue that PX was buddying Shadoweh, not you. He was all "yep Shadoweh looks pretty shiny town I just can't see her as scum because (reasons), also Kilga's alright too". You were more of an afterthought / filler opinion.
Also for the record the only times I've given up as scum were when a win was nearly impossible (dorf fort) and when a win seemed nearly impossible and I was under heavy stress for non-game reasons (psycho prophecy). A win is currently not impossible for scum-me and I am not currently under heavy stress for any reason.
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Hm...Think I'll drop the BT vote for now. I'm not sure on anyone yet (except for NNR = town), and anyhow it doesn't seem BT is gonna be lynched today. ##Unvote
asdasd DnD session already started and deadline coming near with the 2 prime bandwagons being people who pretty much are on the same footing in my pov. argh
-cut-
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And for anyone that still wants to claim BT wouldn't have been good enough to make that judgment call, remember that he had PX alive at the time, who might have. I talked to Edible after PX got lynched D1 in Affinity's game and he thought PX's game was good and blamed everyone else for not thinking it through.
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I'm not going to sit here and point out every little flaw in your case while I'm busy doing things and deadline is close, Kilga. I've already made notes that I don't buy your BT case at all earlier in the thread and found your defense as a whole underwhelming.
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If you're not satisfied with it, point out what about it you dislike and I'll explain it to you. I would think you, as town, would want to make the most informed decision possible.
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Uhm, how much time do we have left? I think we're cutting it close right now.
Kilga are you arguing that PX is actually pretty good at mafia, yet you didn't point out how horribly he was playing this game?
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Shadoweh: He can have a good mind for it and simply have bad execution.
If you don't believe what I said about Edible's assessment of the guy, ask Edible yourself.
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Also there's less than a half hour left.
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Vote Count: Golden Foil No Cute Link edition
Kilgamayan (3): huh what, BT, NekoNekoRex
huh what (2): Shadoweh, Kilgamayan
Kilgamyon is at L-1!
Not voting: Raitaki
You have about 25 minutes remaining. With 6 in play, it takes 4 votes to launch.
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just saying that i'm still here but don't have anything to add because dormio effort is best effort
i don't think i'm a safe lylo mislynch for bt because he has to either kill nnr (meaning nnr's arguments are taken with a grain of salt) or kill somebody else (meaning nnr and everybody else questions if nnr was left alive to get me lynched)
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safe meaning super easy and set up for superbus-BT
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Who said you were a "safe" LYLO mislynch? Not me. Don't put words in my mouth and argue those, argue what I actually said.
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10 minutes.
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##Fabulous huh what
Just in case people decide HW should be lynched over Kilga. I dunno which one to choose ;_;
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Vote Count: Last Minute edition
Kilgamayan (3): huh what, BT, NekoNekoRex
huh what (3): Shadoweh, Kilgamayan, Raitaki
Kilgamyon is at L-1!
huh what is at L-1!
Not voting: Nobody!
You have 5 minutes remaining. With 6 in play, it takes 4 votes to launch.
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Yeah I can't imagine who could get killed for not being a suspect and who wants you dead there are only like three people who aren't considered suspects.
Raitaki you suck. WHY CAN YOU NEVER MAKE DECISIONS
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In retrospect, arguing TownBT for these horrible reasons is very likely for scum-HW because it means he can turn around and use my arguments against BT in LYLO once town doesn't have a mislynch to afford.
People that actually are town, please think Day 5's decision through. This applies triply to NNR; you've had your head in your ass the entire game, making cases on nonsensical things and refusing to think at times because it wasn't convenient for you. If you're town and live through the night, use your head instead and think through what you say before voting. Give some actual effort. If you died tonight I'd say you'd take over for Bard as worst "confirmed" townie performance ever.
Still prefer BT to HW, but not as much as before.
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gfdsjklhsdf
do you really not have anything that would help you decide, like, questions?
w/e I'll self-hammer if it comes down to like 1 minute and nobody wants to hammer Kilga since guaranteed town death > guaranteed instant town loss and I have no reason to believe scum-Kilga wouldn't take the universal loss given sordgirls
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2 minutes.
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I'm pretty sure Kilga wouldn't universal loss but as scum I don't expect him to hammer himself either. That's really unfair standards.
FFS. ##FABULOUS KILGAMAYAN
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uh, is the unvote required or not
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Shutup Edible I know how mafia works.
##Unvote
##Fabulous Kilgamayan
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Good enough.
hammer, silencio
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"OH MY GOD WHERE DID THE EXTREMELY LIMITED FLAVOR TEXT GO?!"
"Kilgamayan just took it with him on vacation."
"Kilga went on vacation?"
Kilgamayan, playing a baby duck snuggling with a baby owl (http://i.imgur.com/B0mkp.jpg), Orange Sherbet Town, went on vacation!
"I guess he did!"
It is now Night 4. 24 hours everyone send me a PM etc.
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I'm sorry for failing you, town.
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SURPRISE DAY STARTING SLIGHTLY EARLY WHOO
NekoNekoRex, playing Sukusuku Hakutaku (http://i.imgur.com/bpBNz.jpg), Praline Town, was hauled out of his room early in the morning by two cats and a dog/dinosaur!
/!\IT IS LYLO (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xy_-7OXophY)/!\
You will have approximately 72 hours during this LYLO event - to wit, you have until 6 PM EST on Thursday to reach a majority lynch. As always, there must be a lynch. Or you will lose. DOUBLE LYLO OMG
The following people are still in play:
BT
Raitaki
huh what
Shadoweh
With 4 alive, it takes 3 (!) to lynch.
There are no posting restrictions today, as a reward for nobody taking it easy all game.
GO!
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Blargh.
##takeiteasy
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Good Luck, Have Fun (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsOPHyuAuT0)
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##takeiteasy
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
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Posting stuff I found interesting on re-read. I'm writing this overnight so people can respond early on because seriously 48 hour LYLO is pretty harsh. I don't have a section for Rex because I don't expect him to survive. If it turns out one of these people is town and scum kill them instead then just read that section of the post in an incredibly irritated tone of voice.
Here's how I assume scum gameplans would've went down (these are basically fluff so skip them if you don't care, I just think they're interesting and people can correct my approaches to why person X would be scum if I'm missing a key component of the case):
BT: Day 1, scum lurkaderp it up early on and Serela becomes a target. PX disappears to keep the Rex counterwagon afloat, BT realizes Serela is a sinking ship and makes a rushed jump for cred. They kill Pesco for being pretty townie. Day 2, PX doesn't give a fuck and BT's IHNN case is met with disapproval and even suspicion, so BT starts up a bus, but later pussies out and flip-flops when he gets the chance, resulting in Affinity's lynch. They realize that BT isn't gonna get IHNN mislynched and IHNN suspects both of them so they shoot him in the head. D3 BT and PX decide to hard bus eachother to distract town, after failing to mislynch me PX suicides early because he won't have the cred to carry the game if BT gets lynched. Omba gets shot due to general obvtownieness and BT is free to mislynch Kilga and buddy me the following day while coasting on cred.
Shadoweh: Deciding the tracker isn't a big enough threat, Shadoweh takes advantage of her Godfather abilities and busses Serela with a strong case as soon as possible because she realizes how likely to tie himself to his buddies and generally flail about, then shoots Pesco because not only does she think his VT claim was a cop counterclaim, he just naturally hates her and is the most likely to catch her later on. D2 she ignores the rising PX wagon with an Affinity vote and doesn't make much effort to IHNN is shot because he caught PX and his reactions to the Serela claim make sense for a cop, Rai being ignored because Shadoweh thinks he's too sheepy. Shadoweh then goes on to make fake-threats against PX while ignoring him and prays for a BT lynch - when that fails, her casemaking ability continues to drop due to lack of townie motivation and she votes me because :meta:.
Rai: Rai can't scumhunt and has no idea how to fake it, so he abuses cop immunity and tunnels on his buddies whereever possible. PX makes an early drop off Rai's wagon once it's solid despite continuing to admonish Raitaki's newbscum mistakes while Serela slightly disapproves but Raitaki is a newb so it's totally okay. N1 they shoot Pesco because he was being scary and attacking Raitaki's logic for (imo) sensible reasons. D2, Rai has no idea what to go for when the Omba case gets shot down, so he resorts to bussing and doesn't want to hammer off the wagon since he'd get less townie cred. IHNN dies for being on PX, as well as being the most probable power role at that point - Raitaki knows he's not the cop for obvious reasons. D3, PX flails suicidally and lets Rai bus him while ignoring Rai entirely because he knows Rai can probably carry the game with all the free passes town is handing out. D4 Rai's buddies are deaaaaaaaaaad so he has no idea what the fuck to do. Has clear priorities regarding me and Kilga but doesn't want to be judged so refrains from hammering and feigns cluelessness.
So, questioning / general thoughts.
~~~Shadoweh~~~ - Quality of cases seriously deteriorates over the course of the game which makes me wonder what happened. Compare her D1 super Serela scumpush to her following cases where she didn't seem to care as much and was in some cases waffly. I'd also like to know where she intended to take this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg868417.html#msg868417) questioning since she didn't apparently do much to read Kilga and I until yesterday.
- PX supporting Shadoweh lynch followed by hard buddying doesn't seem like how he'd treat a buddy so egh.
- Opposing PX wagon but not bothering to come up with your own opinion on PX. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg869277.html#msg869277) Why did you only read Affinity? Pretty similiar D2 to PX himself actually.
- Shadoweh, explain your thoughts on Kilga from ED3. You set yourself up like you were going to vote him and even said that you had your doubts on the BT case overall. Where the hell did the BT vote come from? I'm not seeing the thought process here.
- What happened to your prepared PX opinions in #559 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg870135.html#msg870135)? Most of your D3 PX pressure turned out to be empty threats.
- Okay so Shadoweh had been posting about how I don't make sense as PX's buddy and don't look like scum all day only to drop this for the stupidest D4 meta case ever. Using meta while ignoring flips and whatnot to find a lynch on day 4 is downright awful by itself, but I wasn't even giving up and Shadoweh's vote on me was really, really bad. I can't understand what would compel her to drop everything she had considered up to that point and vote on incorrect meta of all things. #717 seemed to have like no effect on her conclusions either. A case could be made that she didn't actually give a fuck who got lynched since it wasn't going to be her.
~~~BT~~~ - This quote: (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg867815.html#msg867815)
Notice that I never said I disagree with Serela's lynch; IHNN's jump could easily be a bus, also considering the inconsistency. I guess I just prefer IHNN if it happens that one of them are town.
seriously frustrates me whenever I read it. It's basically a classic way of scum trying to make sure they don't look distanced from the wagon on their buddy. Only it's not something I'd expect to be followed up with an unjustified bus vote. Ugh. BT, why was NekoRex magically okay again despite your earlier pressure when you made your Serela switch and why was IHNN bussing Serela?
- What happened to the throwaway Kilga case here during D3? (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg869248.html#msg869248)
- Posting a point for lynching PX while unvoting makes the switch look better imo (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg869278.html#msg869278) because why would scum do that if the point of the post was to go "yeah you have a point"? though might be good acting I guess argh.
- Also FWIW I ISO'd Barney and he basically never addressed me or Affinity unless we were pressuring him or he was talking about a mislynch's interaction with us. It contrasts with BT bussing basically everybody this game but it's been several months and his buddies in Psycho's Prophecy weren't Serela and PX, so uh. I don't really like meta but I'm just throwing that out there in case somebody wants to actually do something with it.
~~~Raitaki~~~ - If Raitaki wanted to make sure he was voting for scum, why didn't he just go to the archives and ctrl+F Serela's name to find out whether Serela was new or not? Even if he didn't think to, he had been reading a previous game that Serela was in as town and had a standard of Serela's paly to judge. Looks like abuse of newb card, plus his actual Serela vote wasn't particularly original. Note this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg867508.html#msg867508) where he's still not scumhunting but would probably be voting Serela, only his Serela opinion is incredibly wishy-washy. Serela opinion isn't solidified until Serela wagon is at 3, overeager newbie Godfather might think taking advantage of this is a good idea. "torn between Omba and Serela" (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg867903.html#msg867903) gives him flexibility to switch back to Omba should that wagon pick up too. Final Serela revote (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg868047.html#msg868047) is yet again what everybody else said about the claim.
- PX giving up so easily D3 makes me think he wanted the game over with and thought his buddy was gonna carry anyway - Raitaki and Rex fit this description the best, but Rex scum requires some crazy shit going on in the scum quicktopic D1. Plus despite clearing Kilga / Shadoweh and deciding that therefore BT's buddy was me, PX did not consider Raitaki-scum at all even though Raitaki-BT would not have been hard to push. ???
- this:
However, YOUR claim gave a role description that a) didn't match any of the posted roles and b) had nothing to do with actually describing the role aside from stating that you're a townie
still bugs me because really look in your role PMs, it shouldn't describe anything about your role aside from stating that you're a townie. unless you're The Scum. given the environment Raitaki is from him pulling this as scum isn't too big of a stretch actually. There's no reason that Rai would have needed to rely on Pesco's reply to his NNR vote (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg868796.html#msg868796) to decide whether NNR's vanilla claim made sense when Rai could have looked at his own damn PM.
- biggest problem here: all Raitaki's reads that aren't on scum come off incredibly weak. though he had conviction on Omba it was no big deal for him to switch off D1 and being Dead Set on getting Omba lynched (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg868719.html#msg868719) D2 without bothering to read into others is forced and a damn convenient way of nabbing an easy mislynch when he apparently didn't care too much about his Omba case before. D2 when he's voting PX, he has pretty much everybody down as neutral or town, except IHNN and Affinity who he never gets around to re-reading. End of day conduct isn't too strong cuz he couldn't figure out whether he wanted to hammer Affinity or not (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg869338.html#msg869338) which reads like he doesn't want to be responsible for hammering his buddy's counterwagon and letting PX off for a VT claim which Raitaki doesn't even trust (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg869328.html#msg869328) is unexplained and questionable. D4 is where it gets bad again, he hasn't really had any opinions on anybody other than PX since Omba died, so now his priorities are jumbled... only he doesn't really seem to adhere to them at all. There was a point in the day where I was a better lynch than Kilga, and a point in the day where Kilga was second to BT in terms of Raitaki's preferred lynch. Pussying out and not being able to pick a player to hammer when he had a thought process he could cite is unbelievably bad and re-enforces that he's scared of taking responsibility for a hammer (D2). It's really weird how his ability to formulate priorities and opinions whatnot falls apart when he's not tunneling scum.
- Also D1 I find it weird that Serela keeps talking about Raitaki despite giving him passes and Raitaki not being a viable lynch target or major suspicion for Serela. Like why would he bring up a townie this way constantly even in posts where he didn't need to fluff.
So... is Raitaki scum? I'm not sold yet, but I think it's a lot more likely than we've been thinking (read: nobody considering him as a valid suspect at all yesterday). Keep in mind that he's never played here so we don't know how he handles his buddies, so him having Serela-level confirmation bias is totally viable especially given how vapid his opinions on non-scum are and how he loses his confidence when he could be hammering a townie. At the very least I'd like to have a dialogue about the option while I'm still considering BT / Shadoweh as well. Though I'm going to be very annoyed if it turns out to be BT.
I'm also wondering how he survived N2 despite blatantly faking a power role and voting scum two days in a row. Experience doesn't seem like a good justification for this when IHNN managed to bite it.
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btw if I get speedlynched for predicting the nightkill then I am going to cry
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okay well it ended up being 72 hours and not 48
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Oh yes the second time a decent player whips out a case against me first thing in LyLo.
If this keeps happening and said players keep turning out to be scum then cool I found a pattern :awesome:
Jokes aside, I've come this far already (somehow), so gonna try to give it my all now I guess.
And yeah huh what I'm terrible at pretending anything but to being stupid and making mistakes.
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Wait wait wait
Raitaki knows he's not the cop for obvious reasons
...Sooo I shot IHNN because I know he's not the cop for obvious reasons..? Need explanation
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he = you
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Without me this game isn't adorable enough, therefore these (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5R85Ee0MuQ) links (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7jPwPr5CO0) are (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzzjgBAaWZw) obigatory (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2UwjEufpck)
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However, YOUR claim gave a role description that a) didn't match any of the posted roles and b) had nothing to do with actually describing the role aside from stating that you're a townie
still bugs me because really look in your role PMs, it shouldn't describe anything about your role aside from stating that you're a townie. unless you're The Scum. given the environment Raitaki is from him pulling this as scum isn't too big of a stretch actually. There's no reason that Rai would have needed to rely on Pesco's reply to his NNR vote to decide whether NNR's vanilla claim made sense when Rai could have looked at his own damn PM.
I meant the "Praline" descriptor. At the time I thought "Vanilla" in my role PM was part of the role "Vanilla Townie" listed in the OP, and I thought "Praline" was just pure flavor text that had nothing to do with the role, so I was wondering why his role name had flavor text (except for the name with image embedded) and mine didn't.
biggest problem here: all Raitaki's reads that aren't on scum come off incredibly weak.
Now I'd say my cases on PX (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg868796.html#msg868796) and Serela (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg867569.html#msg867569) weren't strong either. Unless you call a "he did this and it makes no sense" and a "hey he's flailing much like me" strong.
letting PX off for a VT claim which Raitaki doesn't even trust is unexplained and questionable
Not quoted: link to the post where I said I based the PX vote partly on his #188, to which he claimed he couldn't elaborate on because of irl stuff which I couldn't argue against.
Pussying out and not being able to pick a player to hammer when he had a thought process he could cite is unbelievably bad and re-enforces that he's scared of taking responsibility for a hammer (D2).
Now this is true. But if townies are never supposed to avoid taking responsibilities for shaky hunches they have (i.e. extend survivability against day lynches and vigshots) then I'll need someone to explain to me this lynch-first-regret-and-accept-lynch-later town mindset to me.
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I meant the "Praline" descriptor. At the time I thought "Vanilla" in my role PM was part of the role "Vanilla Townie" listed in the OP, and I thought "Praline" was just pure flavor text that had nothing to do with the role, so I was wondering why his role name had flavor text (except for the name with image embedded) and mine didn't.
...but you were attacking NNR for having a role name that wasn't in the OP? How would that make Praline be flavor text?
Now I'd say my cases on PX (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg868796.html#msg868796) and Serela (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg867569.html#msg867569) weren't strong either. Unless you call a "he did this and it makes no sense" and a "hey he's flailing much like me" strong.
Not quoted: link to the post where I said I based the PX vote partly on his #188, to which he claimed he couldn't elaborate on because of irl stuff which I couldn't argue against.
Point is less the strength of the cases and more that you pushed / cared more when you were on scum than when you were on town. When you were on town you came off super indecisive. PX having IRL issues doesn't actually resolve him of suspicion since scum can have those too, and can utilize them scummily (note him avoiding posting to leave his vote down on the counterwagon to Serela, etc).
Now this is true. But if townies are never supposed to avoid taking responsibilities for shaky hunches they have (i.e. extend survivability against day lynches and vigshots) then I'll need someone to explain to me this lynch-first-regret-and-accept-lynch-later town mindset to me.
Town prioritize lynching scum over surviving, especially when they're Vanilla Townie, The Most Powerful Mafia Role and have freedom to say whatever knowing town's not losing major power if they get shot/lynched. This isn't saying BE SUICIDAL, but you shouldn't refrain from throwing your weight around because you might be attacked over it, that's a scum mindset. There was no reason to not try to figure out which of Kilga and I was more likely scum if you wanted to lynch scum that day.
I Would Like To Hear From Shadoweh On This Matter.
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Also, if you're town, who do you currently think the scum is?
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Point is less the strength of the cases and more that you pushed / cared more when you were on scum than when you were on town. When you were on town you came off super indecisive. PX having IRL issues doesn't actually resolve him of suspicion since scum can have those too, and can utilize them scummily (note him avoiding posting to leave his vote down on the counterwagon to Serela, etc).
If you noticed, I kept pushing the flipped scums because nobody (including those players) gave me any reason to doubt the flaws I based my votes on. For PX I did hesitate for a while after he attributed his inability to elaborate on #188 to irl reasons. I was gonna follow through with Omba too, but then he claimed PR and nobody counter claimed and I backed down. All my other cases have been taken down because I was given reason to think that my suspicions are correct.
Was that a probe question? You saw how badly I've been doing since D4.
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My immediate just-woke-up thought is this:
Your endgame is lynching wraitakie? Really? Really?
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My immediate just-woke-up thought is this:
Your endgame is lynching wraitakie? Really? Really?
I haven't voted yet vOv
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Don't be cute with me, that's what you're driving at. I already know what the votecounts say about it. Despite my immediate urge to lynch you out of TOWNIE RAGE for the comments about Kilga 'throwing the game as scum by not self-hammering' I've decided you are more of a busser then that. Raitaki, as much as I would like to pin the blame on him, is too wraithie to be scum. So.
So now it's LYLO
and this is crazy
but ##Vote: BT
and scum lynch maybe
Also. Being Vanilla Town sucks all the CUTENESS.
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Wat.
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Nobody alive has even played with wrathie so I wouldn't make that comparision. I want to hear BT thoughts atm.
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If you noticed, I kept pushing the flipped scums because nobody (including those players) gave me any reason to doubt the flaws I based my votes on. For PX I did hesitate for a while after he attributed his inability to elaborate on #188 to irl reasons. I was gonna follow through with Omba too, but then he claimed PR and nobody counter claimed and I backed down. All my other cases have been taken down because I was given reason to think that my suspicions are correct.
Was that a probe question? You saw how badly I've been doing since D4.
No one cares about what you did in the past. So you were voting the scums for being scum. Huh what is arguing that you seem incapable of voting the town. What do you think of the last three people alive? I told you before. If you don't give reasons, people are going to lynch you for looking like scum that has no opinions.
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And since I'm giving this the full go I supose I should stare at huh what too. Because I am self-centered, can you tell me why you thought Neko would get killed and not me? I can understand the reasoning that he was p. much confirmed town, but LYLO is very much a take who you want with you situation and frankly I don't think anyone besides you has the balls to make a scum case on me. Who wanted Neko dead the most?
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Don't really know how to answer this aside from by saying that I don't think you're invincible at all. Also of all the people alive I'm the most likely to kill Neko over you :selfmeta:
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Actually I misunderstood what you were asking. I still don't have an answer for this because I think it's kind of a dumb question. I do have some more specific thoughts but don't want to bring them up yet.
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You guys always think my questions are dumb. I ask them anyways. (Posting because I'm still here and waiting for Raitaki to answer and a little bored.)
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And BT wins the prize for Too Many Times in LYLO.
Thoughts will come. Just got home and didn't have time to prep anything huge yesterday.
~~~BT~~~ - This quote: (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg867815.html#msg867815)seriously frustrates me whenever I read it. It's basically a classic way of scum trying to make sure they don't look distanced from the wagon on their buddy. Only it's not something I'd expect to be followed up with an unjustified bus vote. Ugh. BT, why was NekoRex magically okay again despite your earlier pressure when you made your Serela switch and why was IHNN bussing Serela?
- What happened to the throwaway Kilga case here during D3? (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg869248.html#msg869248)
- Posting a point for lynching PX while unvoting makes the switch look better imo (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg869278.html#msg869278) because why would scum do that if the point of the post was to go "yeah you have a point"? though might be good acting I guess argh.
- Also FWIW I ISO'd Barney and he basically never addressed me or Affinity unless we were pressuring him or he was talking about a mislynch's interaction with us. It contrasts with BT bussing basically everybody this game but it's been several months and his buddies in Psycho's Prophecy weren't Serela and PX, so uh. I don't really like meta but I'm just throwing that out there in case somebody wants to actually do something with it.
Let's see. NNR kept bothering me with little things but I generally let it fly during D1. Closest I was to voting him was at the very beginning of the game. The Serela case was solid (esp. for D1) and agreeable so it easily out-prio'd NNR.
I thought IHNN was bussing at the time because (1) he gutted Serela as town before and the switch was abrupt (2) the vote was more or less a rehash of Shadoweh's case (3) it was a solid spot on the wagon and (4) he needed a vote.
The case on Kilga wasn't very strong at the time (acknowledged it in that link); it gained some steam during D3, but then I already felt better about the PX vote.
The last scum at the moment is really silly since I cleared each of you at one point or several throughout the game, yet there's scum somewhere so wheee. I'm going to try and point out new things rather than continue waffling on "which clear is better", because holy shit that goes nowhere fast and pretty much encompasses my thoughts from yesterday. (yesterday being 24 hours ago yesterday)
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Not yet finished rereading people, but after reviewing final vote counts of lynch bandwagons and other big bandwagons at their critical mass, I realized that:
+ HW was on pretty much all of them, except for Serela's and PX's D2 wagons.
+ BT came a close second with 1 less wagon jump if I counted right, and in his case he didn't hop on my and NNR's bandwagons.
+ Shadoweh didn't jump wagons as much, but it seems all wagons she jumped had scum on them one point or another. This includes the D1 IHNN wagon that also included PX, BT and Serela. It seems unlikely that scum!Shadoweh (and her scumbuddies) would (let her) jump on wagons with scum this much, and as I see it a PX/Serela/Shadoweh scumteam wouldn't have the skills and guts to use Shadoweh to mindscrew around this much, so I think Shadoweh isn't scum.
+ Actually for that matter, even if BT was scum instead it's still unlikely that he would agree to pile all scum votes on IHNN like that while the case against him wasn't solid
So with the possibility of all 3 scum being on IHNN wagon tentatively discarded, that leaves HW.
HW is now my prime suspect.
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EBWOP
HW was also not on the D1 IHNN wagon and the Omba wagons if iirc. Derp
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The third scum IHNN vote would've been Serela in that situation so I wouldn't find it too weird if two scum were on IHNN, but then Serela couldn't think of anything else so he joined them because :serela:.
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Eh, I re-read Raitaki / Serela interactions and nope I was wrong BT looks the scummiest. Interesting: the point PX hopped away from IHNN just because was when the wagon was BT / PX / Serela, which actually makes a lot of sense if he didn't want to be a voting block with his scumbuddies.
I'll wait for him to post cases though.
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Mainly because;
cut and Raitaki if you hammer I'm going to hurt you, seriously. Pretty sure plenty of other people will frown at you for that too on D2. There's still discussion and stuff going on here and we've got time.
This reads as if Serela was actively trying to bully Rai into not hammering him. If they were buddies then the middle sentence was not needed and Serela would probably go ramble about whether it was worth it or not in the quicktopic or soemthing.
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Raitaki are you still around?
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Oh, just got back on.
Hmm. Think I'll go look at the proceedings during the IHNN wagon again.
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Constant re-reading has made me waffle and tire of this game.
##Vote: BT (L-1)
I don't expect my opinions to change in a logical manner at this point. Raitaki, post to either confirm yourself if you're town or win the game by hammering if you're scum. If it's the former then I'll re-read Shadoweh again and explain why one of (BT, Shadoweh, but probably BT) is the scums and not me. If it's the latter then I'm going back to whatever the fuck I was doing in NHK.
Also fuck off graveyard.
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Hmm. Okay, PX did look like he was kneejerking away from the IHNN wagon when he switched to NNR. Shadoweh's pouncing on Serela with cases while town was still somewhat forgiving to his waffling and etc seems to me as though either Shadoweh was town, or scum!Shadoweh decided to throw away Serela VERY EARLY. I don't think the later case is very probable.
Also asdasd reading takes time and I was eating lunch
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So is that confirmation you're not quickhammering?
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Are you trying to get me to hammer BT RIGHT NOW?
:| :| :|
##FoS huh what
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...the point is that if you're scum you would quickhammer to win the game. By not quickhammering you're confirming yourself as either town, or if you're actually scum anyway, an asshole.
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Also I think HW just made me even more blatantly confirmed town.
You three 50% chance of voting correct scum gogogo
-cut-
Yes he did.
Oh wait the asshole part :awesome:
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Also tell me HW, what about my playstyle told you that town!Raitaki wouldn't quickhammer anyway? Assuming town!HW, you would gain literally nothing by that little attempt. If I quickhammer, you all lose and the others would hate you about it (or both of us if I'm not scum :3). If I don't, then congrats, you just semi-convinced yourself that I'm a townie! Aaaand it doesn't matter anyway, because you think there is still the possibility of me being asshole scum and either way BT hasn't expressed any interest in lynching me for most of the game, and Shadoweh even more so.
So either you didn't think through that at all, or you're scum.
##HoS huh what
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The asshole part is because you're apparently from a community where people fakeclaim as town.
Didn't actually give Shadowmeh a full re-read, but decided BT was scummier than her because yeah Serela bus was too early and she could've stayed on IHNN. This was the general conclusion of all my previous Shadoweh re-reads since D4 so I don't expect it to change. Also Shadoweh is town MVP regardless of her actual alignment at this point.
I'm just going to chalk up whatever the fuck happened D2 - D3 with BT/PX to scum not playing in the way I'd consider optimal. I still think it's dumb for scum-BT but it got him to LYLO so whatever.
D1, PX jerks off IHNN for weakly justified reasons because he doesn't want to vote with BT/Serela only like I said. D3 PX's vote is on BT because as Shadoweh said earlier people don't actually change, and PX distances from his scumbuddies when he's about to die. Meta but whatever, it makes more sense than him ignoring his buddy. He gives up and plays horribly that day to ensure BT isn't the lynch since BT has a higher chance of actually carrying. If he wasn't expecting his buddy to carry he would've put in more effort.
While Kilga would have been a wildcard and made it hard for scum to predict where the Rex / Serela wagons were headed, after re-reading again I decided it's reasonable for them to expect him to go for Rex when Kilga had given a more detailed account of his suspicion on Rex instead of just agreeing with another case. So yeah, scum could reasonably pull off a mislynch after BT's Serela vote.
There's also a bunch of stuff other people said about him which I'm not restating vov
As for why the scums isn't me, there's that thing where I voted PX before anyone else did. Also I confirmed you as town when you wanted me lynched which would've been kind of stupid. Also it would mean I NKed town-Pesco early on when I only joined this game because of something that happened during NHK postgame and I wanted him to play town without trolling. But self-defense in Mafia is silly so w/e.
Cut: If town!Raitaki quickhammers then I don't care too much because I think BT is the scum anyway. If I'm wrong then I'm frustrated but it's not like I'm going to commit sudoku because I lost a mafia game. What I gain from confirming you town is that I don't have to waffle back and forth between you and BT for the rest of a LYLO because you're town. Not opting to avoid quickhammering because you're an asshole is a player trust thing at this point and if you're trolling me then people will scold you for that postgame.
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*fakeclaim as town when it's not necessary
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D1, PX jerks off IHNN
...
*jerks off of
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Had a disgustingly low amount of free time today. Will share my main thoughts and hopefully contribute more tomorrow.
... cuts
Was going to ramble about Raitaki at this point but woop woop he's town.
>_> I guess I just want to post that I exist? I'm in the process of reading shit again and a random Raitaki hammer wouldn't exactly be pleasant. HW, I still very much think your play this game is town, so all I can ask from you is to actually read Shadoweh fully. I'm pretty sure I'm willing to gut Shadoweh as the scum at this point, but, well, ~reading~.
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Yeah, there's no way I have time for a detailed reread but I'm pretty damn sure it's not huhwhat at this point.
##Vote Shadoweh
I guess the biggest thing on my mind right now is that PX pretty much did not exist for her for the majority of the game, while PX did the whole buddy thing on D3. Distancing bus-style might have actually been the original plan since he agreed with Kilga's cases here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg870089.html#msg870089) and was literally setting up to vote her before he changed his mind for whatever reason. Also a possibility is that the Serela case wasn't originally a D1 bus plan -- there was an entire half of D1 left and the original plan could have been to find another wagon, only that it happened to little too late and Shadoweh decided to go full force with it by being bestest town buddies with NNR.
More reading? Maybe.
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Yeah I didn't think so.
Raitaki's pretty smart. I thought the same thing about reading the early wagons. The entire idiot brigade would have had to have tunneled onto IHNN to be the scumteam. (obviously this is impossible! Except for that one time it happened derp) I think I'll reread to see if I really think that's a possibility.
HW:
D3 PX's vote is on BT because as Shadoweh said earlier people don't actually change, and PX distances from his scumbuddies when he's about to die.
Didn't PX throw his vote on you at the last minute?
BT: Okay, that sounds rich. Why am I scum? Make me believe in my scuminess in my arrogance paco. By bestest town buddies you mean by telling NNR to sit down and shutup or I would kill him if he jumped off the scum wagon?
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##takeiteasy :yukkuri:
HW:Didn't PX throw his vote on you at the last minute?
Yes, but it wasn't distancing. If PX wants to distance from his buddies he explains why his buddies are scum in detail (see IMP). He didn't have a case on me that wasn't "BT is going to flip scum" which is actually a reason BT makes sense for his buddy - I was a lined up lynch if something went wrong and BT died before PX.
Also Shadoweh if you're that super duper 99% certain I'm town like you said earlier then you should totally self-vote so I can prove that to Raitaki and this suggestion is certainly obviously not a trap honest :ohdear:
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Shadoweh that's kind of hard to do when *I'm* trying to convince *myself* that you're scum because there's no other option.
And if these last few hours suggest Scum HW in any way I definitely do not see it.
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How about the stuff he just tried to pull?
Hard to believe he'd dangle your life right in my grasp just so that he won't have to waffle between you and me.
@HW: How is confirming a townie that isn't likely to be lynched different from, say, bussing a scumbuddy that is likely to die?
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How about the stuff he just tried to pull?
Hard to believe he'd dangle your life right in my grasp just so that he won't have to waffle between you and me.
>_> That is actually a good point, but at this point he's going to extreme levels if he's scum and I really don't think he had any reason to do that - the choice of clearing you was entirely his.
Shadoweh: By bestest buddies I was referring to how you essentially took him under your wing and yelled at people on his wagon, or something similar. Recollection skills are poor.
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How about the stuff he just tried to pull?
Hard to believe he'd dangle your life right in my grasp just so that he won't have to waffle between you and me.
It also cuts off one of scum's mislynch options and gives town a confirmed voice. It doesn't just benefit me. It's a "high risk" / high reward thing though the risk isn't that high if my reads are good.
@HW: How is confirming a townie that isn't likely to be lynched different from, say, bussing a scumbuddy that is likely to die?
Not sure what you're responding to here.
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Also Shadoweh if you're that super duper 99% certain I'm town like you said earlier then you should totally self-vote so I can prove that to Raitaki and this suggestion is certainly obviously not a trap honest :ohdear:
Tempting but I don't trust you -that- much.
Raitako, all that matters is that if you're scum, you should quickhammer now to win. If you don't, you're confirmed town (or probably carded for not playing right). As town you should definitely not quickhammer, you should vote for who you think is scum when the time is right. There's no hurry to make a choice yet. Just take it easy. :yukkuri:
BT: But he's voting for you. You think maybe he could be doing this with foul intentions? As for NNR, it wouldn't be hard for you to go back and see what I did. Look for the post where I'm screaming at him (him specifically because otherwise it would be hard to tell.)
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Argh.
##takeiteasy
##Unvote
No way in hell I can make an informed vote like this. I'm just going to sleep on it and come back all refreshed and word-ful after 18 hours
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(this is when we quickhammer bt in his sleep)
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Okay BT but maybe you should say something better in your defense before you go, the guy with the hammer seems pretty energetic and he might hammer you in your sleep.
Cut by huh what :V
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It means I'll come back anyway. Only dead.
cut oh right hammer
but I have like ten minutes
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I don't know what else I can say in my defense. I answered everyone's questions and I don't have time to do extensive rereads and *show people the light* in ten minutes.
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Problem with Shadoweh case: if her plan was the Serela wagon to fade, then why use such a strong, comprehensive case, and why weren't Serela's buddies kicking his ass in the quicktopic to make a solid post that didn't suck? This game has daytalk and that's what buddies were for. Shadoweh was around a lot so she could have helped Serela construct a quality post that would have made him look better and give Shadoweh an excuse to jump off.
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I thought it was you who said a few hours ago that you can't always assume ideal scum play.
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By that I mean, in that case, that the scumteam was lazy and expected the townies to derp on their own.
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vov
I don't know what to say to that, but it doesn't make me feel your case. It's more like BT/PX come up with plans I wouldn't consider optimal, Shadoweh / Serela come up with plans that could be optimal according to your case but butcher them when they go wrong. I hosted a game with Shadoweh / Serela buddies and they were talking to eachother quite a bit when bussing went down because both are talkative scumbuddies and their timezones overlap reasonably.
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My timezone overlaps with everyone >.> Random bouts of insomnia do that. Your case makes more sense to convict you then myself or huh what, considering you never made a case on the Day 1 wagon and voted Serela because ???
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I'll say it again; I agreed with the case. When you're busy and don't have the time to optimally hunt scum you're bound to support votes you contributed almost nothing (or-- nothing) to.
HW: Meta can only go so far. All I know right now is that I'm town and one of you two is scum. In front of me is a mountain of meta-related clears and all they're doing is obscuring my view by making me consider what applies and what doesn't.
I'm willing to concede at this point that town would have good reason to 'not feel my case' and vote me. But, seriously, there's not much I can do about that but... actually I have no idea what I'm supposed to do about that at all.
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But, seriously, there's not much I can do about that but... actually I have no idea what I'm supposed to do about that at all.
You can self-hammer if you're scum :V
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What if I'm not scum?
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IDK
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Okay, I know what you could do. You could try looking at players as individually as possible. Without silly buddy connections or whatever. Because right now there are several connections that are making me not vote you and several connections that are making me not vote Shadoweh. There are even connections that make my vote less attractive too. You gotta fight it, or something. That's kind of what I was planning to do today but whoops no time for that.
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I considered that and thought you looked scummier.
Shadoweh scumhunts and presents as a wagon leader days 1 - 3. Only day that looks scummy without flips to me is her awful D4 which she never did answer me about (Shadoweh please do this). LYLO she denies support for 2/3 lynches and votes in her first post which isn't the most ideal for scum who would rather be considered a deciding vote by the town. Not impossible to fake but doesn't look scum-motivated.
You tunneled on IHNN days 1 and 2 and avoided mainstream wagons until town had to consolidate. Days 3 - 4 are reasonable but hard to judge since you couldn't start wagons because timezones, though your Kilga case was based more in scum-PX's words than Kilga's which can be manipulated since PX is scum. D5 approach looks like you were buddying me but then unvoted because you realized it'd probably be easier to lynch me.
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Yeah, there's no way I can stay up any longer. If hammer happens overnight then I can only congratulate one of you for playing a truly bizarro game (and I mean that in a good way). If not then maybe a miracle will happen tomorrow and we uncover the scum. All I know right now is that time to mull this over will only help.
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~~~Shadoweh~~~ - Quality of cases seriously deteriorates over the course of the game which makes me wonder what happened. Compare her D1 super Serela scumpush to her following cases where she didn't seem to care as much and was in some cases waffly. I'd also like to know where she intended to take this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg868417.html#msg868417) questioning since she didn't apparently do much to read Kilga and I until yesterday.
- PX supporting Shadoweh lynch followed by hard buddying doesn't seem like how he'd treat a buddy so egh.
- Opposing PX wagon but not bothering to come up with your own opinion on PX. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg869277.html#msg869277) Why did you only read Affinity? Pretty similiar D2 to PX himself actually.
- Shadoweh, explain your thoughts on Kilga from ED3. You set yourself up like you were going to vote him and even said that you had your doubts on the BT case overall. Where the hell did the BT vote come from? I'm not seeing the thought process here.
- What happened to your prepared PX opinions in #559 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg870135.html#msg870135)? Most of your D3 PX pressure turned out to be empty threats.
- Okay so Shadoweh had been posting about how I don't make sense as PX's buddy and don't look like scum all day only to drop this for the stupidest D4 meta case ever. Using meta while ignoring flips and whatnot to find a lynch on day 4 is downright awful by itself, but I wasn't even giving up and Shadoweh's vote on me was really, really bad. I can't understand what would compel her to drop everything she had considered up to that point and vote on incorrect meta of all things. #717 seemed to have like no effect on her conclusions either. A case could be made that she didn't actually give a fuck who got lynched since it wasn't going to be her.
Hey Shadoweh are you going to respond to these
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Probably not. I am far too busy rereading you and BT to defend myself right now unless someone convinces me it's worth my time. I'll give you a super quick version of a response.
- Quality of cases other people vs Serela = It's Serela. I can sense Scum Serela at 50 paces. He did a thing that made me 100% sure he was scum. I'm not quite as good at catching PX, I thought Barney was town, and I am incapable of catching huh what scum. The question about not voting Serela was entirely to see your responses, that's what questioning is for.
- I did read PX on Day 2. I only made a case on Affinity because that's who I was voting.
- Day 3 was the wall case fight right? I said I would answer Kilga and see what I thought of him from there. I didn't think he was scum. I don't recall where the BT vote came from.
- I like meta, so sue me. You can say it's terrible but people don't change.
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Yeah that's fair. I'm still sold on it being BT. Re-reads don't turn up anything that make me think otherwise, both considering flips and without. Also, comparing your D5 to BT's, you're actually scumhunting and looking at options while I get the impression BT is just trying to save himself with AtE at this point, since it's the only way for him to win if he's scum.
Does Raitaki have thoughts on this right now?
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really want to hammer bt in his sleep atm
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though actually you're more deciding other options are terrible then reconsidering with questions but w/e it's more town-motivated than BT's LYLO performance so far
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also what the fuck 12 guests
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I play through process of elimination. Are you really worried I'm coming to get you, huh what? I'm a witch you know.
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If I cared I'd be trying to clear myself as town instead of talking about why BT is scum
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zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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Ok I'm back.
I'm a bit leery of HW right now, but can't really dig up anything solid against him.
At this point it feels like little progress is being made very slowly, and also there's this:
Yeah, there's no way I can stay up any longer. If hammer happens overnight then I can only congratulate one of you for playing a truly bizarro game (and I mean that in a good way). If not then maybe a miracle will happen tomorrow and we uncover the scum. All I know right now is that time to mull this over will only help.Rai is scum
BT kinda semi-gave up too, and I don't want to wait until tomorrow when both he and I wake up, so I guess I can just hammer BT right now and END THISH ONCE UND FOR ALL.
After 10 minutes if neither of you objects I'll hammer.
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no objections here, I know I'm town and if Shadoweh is scum then she's pretty thoroughly fooled me
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##Vote BT
Thank you for signing up, Raitaki! Your role is Maru (http://i.imgur.com/ssIFi.jpg), Mafia Godfather. You are aligned with the Mafia. Your Mafia teammates are PX, playing Amae Koromo (http://i.imgur.com/fo67Z.jpg), Mafia Strongman Assassin Sniper Hitman Ninja Vigilante Executioner, and Serela, playing a baby penguin brigade (http://i.imgur.com/XYNW7.jpg), Mafia Rolecop!
You win when all of the town have been defeated. Best of luck!
Yeah, there's no way I can stay up any longer. If hammer happens overnight then I can only congratulate one of you for playing a truly bizarro game (and I mean that in a good way). If not then maybe a miracle will happen tomorrow and we uncover the scum. All I know right now is that time to mull this over will only help.Rai is scum
I TOLD YOU GUYS I'M SCUM. WHY WOULD YOU BELIEVE THAT JK
Elsewhere, Kilgamayan crashed into a tree.
Hope you guys realize half the things I say while not very srs are lies.
Trolling you guys ain't fun any more ;_;
gg gl hf rm
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HAMMER SHUT YOUR SEWER HOLES
Edible requested this thread not be spammed upon LYLO hammer. Since he's presently not around, I'll be locking it until he returns to post the finale.
Please watch warmly~
EDIT: Get out of my profile page, HW.
EDIT 2: HI SERP :D
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That was incredibly silly. <3
Everyone wins! But town wins more.
BT, Mafia Godfather, slept through his lynch!
Town has fulfilled their win condition and won the game.
Applause for all parties for an excellent game on both sides. (Thanks for locking the thread until I got here, Kilga)
I'm borrowing a laptop as my PC is deceased so I can't post roles. Dead folk/scum/etc, feel free to paste the QTs in my absence.
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YOU DICK
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EDIT 2: HI SERP :D
wait is raitaki a serp alt or something???
..........
By the way folks Godfather right here nah I'm jk
folks
:o :o :o
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lol
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scum coo-T http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/bD8CujxDZAmKy
graveyerd http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/UASHaxh4bPPLM
Also ahahaaha Raitaki that was best
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Glad to see this came through in the end! Let this game still be a lesson to the dangers of shutting down one's mind to scummy things due to stronger feelings from potentially misguided assumptions, though.
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wait is raitaki a serp alt or something???
..........
:o :o :o
I can neither confirm nor deny that, but I will state for the record that this was a hilarious and somewhat insane trick.
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Look forward to my cryptic crumbs in the form of invisible text and many other HTML-based shenanigans from now on :3 :3 :3
I'm amazed no one saw any of my invisible text until I revealed all except one :awesome:
Also it seems that here too people start wanting to lynch me towards the beginning and end, but not in the middle of the game ;o
@Serp: SECONDED
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wait is raitaki a serp alt or something???
No, just saw him browsing the thread while it was locked.
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So, did anyone catch my breadcrumb?
Also reading the scum QT now, no need for a respond to the graveyard since I was there for most of it :V
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Hey Edible can I edit posts I made earlier after game ends ;D Nothing biggie, just gonna put some stuff in quotes
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Hey Edible can I edit posts I made earlier after game ends ;D Nothing biggie, just gonna put some stuff in quotes
[/quote
I would prefer if you didn't.
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PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
I spit out all my tea on that response
Faking the godfather in your game-ending lynch post is one thing, but that text-hiding trick is another one entirely. Well played. I think I'm going to enjoy your continued play here, Raitaki.
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*tips hat* Thanks NNR I'll try ;D
Also:
Also, that fake PM looks nothing like my PM! It doesn't even have a QT link, and I never knew my partner's flavors :V
...I COMPLETELY FORGOT ABOUT THOSE.
Need more practice :getdown:
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like i said, i would have explicitly not killed pesco n1 as scum this game and would have also shot rai over ihnn so i don't know what pesco even expected??
i also think rai did really well for a newbie. should be less waffly about those hammers tho :<
sign-ups for my game will be up at 10 PM PST or right now i guess idk
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Trust me, it was convincing enough to the two people you were tricking that we both had meltdowns about it. You are a bad person and should be ashamed of yourself. >:<
SO HOW ABOUT THAT GAME WITH THE INFORMATIONAL ROLES. I KNOW I LEARNED ALOT ABOUT USING RESULTS. THIS WAS VERY EDUCATIONAL!
PS: BIRTHDAY CAKE ICE CREAM @________________@ OMNOMNOMNOMBT WHY ARE YOU SO DELECTABLE
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"Would the (by gut) 4 townies on me please unvote?"
I needed the number 4 there for a breadcrumb ;)
Also at the time I'd gutted BT as the scum :V
"If I claim Vanilla now and make it to d2, I could still "trueclaim" cop then.
I could even go all the way and claim a guilty d2. :V"
Had you done that I'd have counterclaimed with a town result on huh what.
Being the NK wouldn't be a big deal since GUARANTEED SCUM LYNCH :D
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@IHHN: What's your crumb supposed to be, again?
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My first three posts
(/conform)
(Omba...)
(Pesco I'm invoking this...)
spell out cop with the first letters :V
Also later I crumbed it because derp I forgot I crumbed it earlier with the word "compare" in a [size=10]tag[/size] (size=10). Said post also contained the numbers 1, 2 and 4 in that order, pointing to the 1st, 2nd and 4th letters of compare, also spelling cop.
Yeah I had way too much fun coming up with these (took 5 games to finally -not- roll vanilla)
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good game, guys(ry
Wait, we don't have a rule against using invisible text?
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I think it's assumed that you won't hide your text through encryption or other such means.
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Out of the 7 or so mafia games I've played, only in 2 (including this one) did I roll vanilla or the closest thing to that. The first time I got shot N0 (which is before D1 by SEN traditions).
I can't handle this powerlessness man :getdown:
-cut Er wait do we? If we do then my shenanigans will have to be even less detectable...;_;
And how many people here knows how to do invisible text anways
-cut- Oh.
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And how many people here knows how to do invisible text anways
You can't do it on this kind anyway
So you should not keep hiding messages via color.
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Yeah, that sort of chicanery is generally considered unsporting.
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[color=transparent][/color]Coloring it to the background isn't even how he did it anyway.
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You, sir, greatly underestimates the chromatic power.
Eh, I see, then I'll try to crumb through codes then ;o
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Didn't know this was possible
Though it's visible if you glow it :V
You, sir, greatly underestimates the chromatic power.
Eh, I see, then I'll try to crumb through codes then ;o
Too lazy to bother to mess with those codes :V
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How about the hidden message in #867? Can I use something like that :3c
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really want to hammer bt in his sleep atm
You're an evil, evil person. I knew I should have hammered myself.
I really enjoyed this. Kind of impossible towards LYLO, but fun. Might post more things when it isn't 7:00 AM.
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I would suggest against trying hidden messages at all.
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I would suggest against trying hidden messages at all.
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How about the hidden message in #867? Can I use something like that :3c
I'd say it's better but not a good sport (though in the same vein my size=10 thing fits too, though not if font size in browser changes the rest of the text since that's viewable otherwise).
Overall hidden messages should be avoided outside of crumbing.
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Also I really wanted the BT PX Serela scumteam to win. I guess it wasn't meant to be. :(
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Well I was planning to only use them for crumbing.
I've had my share of troll from what precious few minutes I got from this LyLo. It would have been awesome if I could see HW's and Shadoweh's reactions before end game post though :3
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i pmed my reactions to kilga and edible but they weren't particularly amusing
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Also I really wanted the BT PX Serela scumteam to win. I guess it wasn't meant to be. :(
BIRTHDAY CAKE BIRTHDAY CAKE BIRTHDAY CAEK @_@ I suggest less fake-sleeping and more posting words! Team lurkscum is doomed to be eatan.
Also Raitaki, posting in any type of code that can't be decoded without a translator is also considered forbidden. The kind of crumbing I have no name did is fine. It all has to be out in the open.
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Hiding via colour codes is dumb because I use the old darker forum theme. If it doesn't show to you, it'll show to me or someone else who customised their browser in any way.
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also since I never died and as such never had the chance to do this in-game via bahpost (from what i can tell the forum autoresizes these so i hope it's okay??):
(http://i.imgur.com/xRXE6.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/WnIyG.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/YFKJ6.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/1NmhN.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/5n3HL.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/PVPbV.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/msqGj.gif)
postin' adorable (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YrAILSxbq0) in an (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScT-Trjjohs) adorable thread (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7oVEgZAeRs)
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posting in any type of code that can't be decoded without a translator is also considered forbidden.
I did do the "crumb in Japanese" thing at one time, though, with mod-approval as I recall.
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Shadoweh's wrathie comparison was unfair. Raitaki may be new but he's actually said some interesting things and is starting to flesh out his thoughts and write them down in a presentable manner. I think once he gets more acclimated to the flow of the game he'll be pretty good.
Did you say this before or after you realized he had crumbed 'I am scum' on Day 4? :V How to say.. he was the newbie who played so foreign to us that he was speaking a language that none of us understood. I was not implying that he wouldn't get good just that in the situation he was new, kind of insane and so obvtown it hurt.
C'mon, Shadoweh, what have I tried to hammer into you all game long? LYLO isn't the time for finding the scum, it's the time for getting the scum lynched. Stop taking shots at huh what and get him to agree with you. If town loses you don't lose less just because you picked correctly.
What makes you think I was sure huh what wasn't scum at that point? <_<; You were right about me being mad after Day 4. 4P LYLO lets you vote without a quicklynch to see reactions. Huh what responded by making more cases. BT responded with nap time. I wasn't sure until (after the) hammer had dropped (and I stopped having heart attacks because RAITAKI) that BT was the one!
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... wrathie had interesting thoughts too back then. He isn't really the perfect synonym for newbie sheepy town.
In other news, yay for everyone this game. Hope this may be a precedent for greater things or something.
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Who is ready for AGOM AWARD SHOW?!
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Yay, awards!
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Only if Conq gets one.
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About fake-sleeping -- I only did it once, during Serela's lynch. Funny thing, too - both PX and I were active and faked being away during Serela's lynch, so the "Serela had no buddies to talk to" theory was wrong from the start. I totally would have written up a good defense/case today had I the time. In fact, I would have been doing that right now had it not been for the random Scum Raitaki hammer.
Time to read the Dead QT and oh boy awards.
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I bet I can think of a few ways to crumb codes (http://likeasecretmessageinaurlafterareaurl). (http://Likethis!)
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"Played It A Little Too Cool" Award - Affinity, for being the only town power role to get lynched in an attempt to avoid a night kill.
"ABANDON SHIIIIIP" Award - BT, for bussing both of his teammates and sleeping through most of LYLO.
"Chicago Roleclop" Award - Serela, for never getting to use his power role but his team killed all the power roles anyway.
"B-but I'm confirmed ;_;" Award - Omba, for missing with his PR and then realizing it was futile because all the other town PRs were dead.
"Master, sir, did you just see my MAD SKILLZ?" Award - Raitaki, for "hiding" text that the mod and several other players could see because transparent text shows up as normal on some browsers, but no one brought it up anyway until after the game was over.
"usa usa THIS" Award - Pesco, the least innocent Innocent Child ever, for dying before he was revealed as innocent. Also for not knowing what a praline is.
"Glutton for Punishment" Award - NekoNekoRex, for reminding me that I completely forgot to post D2's restriction.
"Czar of Adorableness" Award - huh what, for sending me brain-achingly cute things night after night.
"Death Flag" Award - IHNN, for going rogue N2 and dying immediately. He's getting married when he comes back from this battle, you know?
"Philistine" Award - Shadoweh, for not knowing who her flavor role was. She's only the cutest magical girl with a rocket hammer EVER, jeez.
"I'm pretty sure that's illegal in your state" Award - Kilgamayan, for attempting (and failing) to post repeatedly while driving. ANZEN UNTEN
"Heat-Seeking Goddamned Missile" Award - PX, for nailing a town power role three nights in a row. Strongman Assassin Sniper Hitman Ninja Vigilante Executioner indeed.
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"Death Flag" Award - IHNN, for going rogue N2
But you said that was the "right" thing to do :ohdear:
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I think you missed the joke <_<
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I killed NNR because his vote was pretty much "HW but maybe I'll change my mind and vote BT". Shadoweh wasn't an option for him at all and a vote switch was fairly probable after Kilga's last words and *not getting killed*.
Anyway, town played well. It's true that we weren't exactly the hardest scumteam to catch, but town did what was required - lynch it. Not to mention you guys were on the right track for the majority of the game. Just compare that to Angel Beats!.
I didn't play an ideal scum game - I'm well aware of that. The philosophy behind my scum play was "don't play to scum's wc if you're forced to play differently because of it". The only time I strayed from this was during Affinity's lynch when it paid off.
cut by awards
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I had a rough idea of what praline was. Just not that it looked like runny poo.
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Oh yeah, I wanted to talk about the setup. I did feel like it was a bit town-favored, seeing as we needed a PR lynch (something that should never happen) and a PR rand N1 to get to LYLO. I guess it's because we had to go for killing the would-be-clear dudes instead of strategically killing people that threaten us.
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I got the joke.
Since I don't see a night action list anywhere, I copped huh what N1 and Raitaki N2.
In the graveyard Edible gave a result on Raitaki and confirmed neither were the godfather :V
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Oh yeah, I wanted to talk about the setup. I did feel like it was a bit town-favored, seeing as we needed a PR lynch (something that should never happen) and a PR rand N1 to get to LYLO. I guess it's because we had to go for killing the would-be-clear dudes instead of strategically killing people that threaten us.
I realized after the game started that the setup was balanced for a closed setup, not open. That was my fault, but I think this game played out well regardless of actual setup balance due to scumteam murdering all of the power roles.
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Bardiche will be along shortly to provide detailed, constructive critiques of every player this game.
ISN'T THAT RIGHT BARDICHE
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I demand a pre-/in for my game from Edible for that.
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I demand a pre-/in for my game from Edible for that.
I wish I could (UCHUUUU KITAAAAAAA), but your game is going to be during my can't-play-mafia period :/
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For night actions, the kills should be self-explanatory. Affinity (pesco) and Omba (Kilga twice) missed the only times they got to use theirs, and IHNN's were posted previously. And people said mountainous was impossible for town! Fie, I say!
I didn't play an ideal scum game - I'm well aware of that.
Raspberries.
You and PX played excellently. Serela... uh, well, got lynched D1, but that worked in scumteam's favor several times. Isn't it glad, Serelapony?
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Considering I felt like the main reason I was alive during some instances was because of nonsensical connections, I dunno.
I completely forgot I called this. Quoted from the QT:
">in my role PM my role reads exactly how it was posted in the OP
I really do want to NK this. Unless his flavor is "Vanilla" or something and it showed up exactly as "Vanilla Townie"."
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Yeah, Rai was actually Vanilla Townie. Not Praline or Birthday Cake or Orange Sherbet or whatever.
It was a teensy-tiny bit of bastard moddery I threw in because I was feeling stupid, leave me alone ;_;
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Pick on the new guy would you :getdown:
Also yikes I never knew some browsers could see transparent text as normal o_o
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Yeah, honestly it came across as just silly nonsense more than anything else.
I don't think we need to go out of our way to add a "NO HIDDEN TEXT" rule because it subverts the purpose and nature of the game. Your use of it was fairly harmless outside of giving Shadoweh and huh what a massive heart attack (for which you should probably apologize <_<; ) but I'd rather not see it again if at all possible, as it sets a bad precedent.
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;o
Sorry, Shadoweh, huh what, :3
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Electronics usage of this nature is indeed illegal while operating a vehicle in Massachusetts.
But all of my red light phone posts came while I was in New Hampshire. 8)
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I wish I could (UCHUUUU KITAAAAAAA), but your game is going to be during my can't-play-mafia period :/
Haven't watched Fourze. Currently on Kiva. OOO and Den-O are still my favourites over everything else I watched.
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I don't think we need to go out of our way to add a "NO HIDDEN TEXT" rule because it subverts the purpose and nature of the game. Your use of it was fairly harmless outside of giving Shadoweh and huh what a massive heart attack
YAY HEART ATTACKS :D
Also I like how Kilga apparently started phoneposting while driving as soon as he got to an area where it was legal.
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YAY HEART ATTACKS :D
Also I like how Kilga apparently started phoneposting while driving as soon as he got to an area where it was legal.
"SHIT I NEED TO POST IN MAFIA"
*drives to New Hampshire*
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Hi-Tech Mafia Strategies
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if only this ended a day earlier, you could have truely called the game VANILLA SURVIVOR MAFIA
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I work in New Hampshire, assclowns. >:|
The Massacchusetts part of my commute is all highway, so I couldn't stop at a red light if I wanted to!
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But you said that was the "right" thing to do :ohdear:
You were just one day from retirement. You were gonna go home and start a family, two kids, buy a farm, it's gonna be the life!
I STILL DON'T KNOW WHO VITA-CHAN IS
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I STILL DON'T KNOW WHO VITA-CHAN IS
Go watch the Nanoha movie! Then watch Nanoha A's! Don't watch any Nanoha after that ;_;
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You were just one day from retirement. You were gonna go home and start a family, two kids, buy a farm, it's gonna be the life!
I STILL DON'T KNOW WHO VITA-CHAN IS
How the hell, do you not know the rabbit hatted red loli with a spiked rocket hammer!?
I swore someone made you watch Nanoha before.
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D2 was the best restriction anyway :cool:
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Fabulous NekoNekoRex
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Bardiche will be along shortly to provide detailed, constructive critiques of every player this game.
ISN'T THAT RIGHT BARDICHE
SURE, OF COURSE. GIVE ME A FEW TITS TO WRITE EVERYTHING UP.
I just got back and what is this?
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GIVE ME A FEW TITS
Oh, you.
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Oh, you.
I'd you.
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I WILL SURELY WRITE COMMENTS TOMORROW MAN I NEED TO SLEEP IT'S 4 AM AND I AM READING MAFIA
I can post them in the Sign-Ups/General thread Ediblah so you can shelf this one. It's cools man.
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I WILL SURELY WRITE COMMENTS TOMORROW MAN I NEED TO SLEEP IT'S 4 AM AND I AM READING MAFIA
I can post them in the Sign-Ups/General thread Ediblah so you can shelf this one. It's cools man.
k
Thanks bard.