Author Topic: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery  (Read 114511 times)

CyberAngel

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Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
« Reply #90 on: June 02, 2017, 07:12:51 AM »
Drake, did you somehow miss that it'll take Yen Press YEARS to catch up to current fan translation point? One might as well just learn the original language in that time.

That said, even I'd suggest to anyone upset to cool their jets. Someone else might pick up the fan translation process, you know.

Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
« Reply #91 on: June 02, 2017, 07:38:42 AM »
Drake, did you somehow miss that it'll take Yen Press YEARS to catch up to current fan translation point? One might as well just learn the original language in that time.

THIS.

Seriously we wont know the fate of Suzu for YEARS. It'll be just like what happened with Eirin's immortally and her status as an shinto god, something known to the eastern fandom for years, but constantly argued over by the western fandom until it was correctly translated. Same thing here but worse, this time its the fate of an character and ending to a major story arc.
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Drake

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Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
« Reply #92 on: June 02, 2017, 08:17:22 AM »
I was talking about the notion that it would have been better if Clarste had stopped several chapters earlier, or even arguably several chapters later.

I understand why people are upset. Obviously. But most of the clamor hasn't been about the fact that there will be official license, which in literally any other circumstance one would think is the greatest thing ever. The clamor is about people now being unable to consume the serialization, in essence. That bothers me. Clearly I'm somewhat biased because I'm in a position better than most when it comes to being able to read the works, but that isn't coloring what I think about this.

In what context would an official license ever not pose this problem? A) To license it once the book is over and everyone's already read it all, and B) To keep fan translation going alongside it and have everyone read it all?

There is no good solution to this problem. Licensing didn't start early and now we're stuck with the consequences.

- People can likely already obtain the chapters fairly early online if they know how, and even without full translations there will inevitably be spoilers posted. People still can't just read it for themselves so upset people will remain. (Seriously anyone thinking that we actually won't know about what happens in the next chapter for literally two years is up their own ass)

- Could they try to fast-track and license the tankobon out of order so that people already up to speed can read the newest chapters? That would be interesting, but would be extremely confusing to any new reader, plus it means the staff won't get their bearings or have much feedback, and they also would probably do a crap job without existing context of earlier books. People would probably still be upset about serializations.

- The most appropriate theoretical solution most fan-consumers might agree to would be, like, buying the digital version of Comp Ace on Amazon and having that purchase magically unlock some DRM-locked fan translation. Not only would that be incredibly silly to implement and have people get upset just by the nature of it being DRM (along with the likelihood of it getting cracked anyways...), but it ignores why fan translation would be stopped to begin with.

- Yen press serialization???? Would probably also be littered with errors from lack of context?
« Last Edit: June 02, 2017, 08:29:09 AM by Drake »

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Critz

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Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
« Reply #93 on: June 02, 2017, 08:46:18 AM »
Honestly, it's a blessing in disguise that we're only getting an official release now, rather than a month ago, when there was an actual cliffhanger over our heads.
By now it's very clear that
Spoiler:
Kosuzu is gonna be saved and spared from any consequences
. so all that we need to know is
Spoiler:
Yukari's excuse
and the series will propably end soon anyway.  :V

Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
« Reply #94 on: June 02, 2017, 09:37:47 AM »
Honestly, it's a blessing in disguise that we're only getting an official release now, rather than a month ago, when there was an actual cliffhanger over our heads.
By now it's very clear that
Spoiler:
Kosuzu is gonna be saved and spared from any consequences
. so all that we need to know is
Spoiler:
Yukari's excuse
and the series will propably end soon anyway.  :V

That's like saying "Don't watch Return Of The Jedi. You know that the hero's win at the end."
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Drake

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Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
« Reply #95 on: June 02, 2017, 10:24:14 AM »
you say that, but don't realize that so many people are actually in just to react to whatever happens so they can form an opinion on how zun sucks shit or whatever

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Kilgamayan

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Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
« Reply #96 on: June 02, 2017, 11:00:06 AM »
People that are worried that they'll never find out what's going to happen can subscribe to the digital version of the magazine and look at the pretty pictures while reading along with a summary someone will invariably provide. Clarste even provided two possibilities for y'all to do so.
[22:40:12] <Drake> "guys i donwloaded esod but its not workan"
[22:40:21] <Drake> REPORTED
[22:40:25] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> PROBATED
[22:40:30] <Drake> ORGASM
[22:40:32] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> FUCK YEAH

[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

Flandre5carlet

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Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
« Reply #97 on: June 02, 2017, 11:06:20 AM »
People that are worried that they'll never find out what's going to happen can subscribe to the digital version of the magazine and look at the pretty pictures while reading along with a summary someone will invariably provide. Clarste even provided two possibilities for y'all to do so.

That's like telling people to watch a movie without subtitles and read a synopsis if they want to understand what's going on. You won't know what the dialogue says, for example. Just have a rough idea maybe, though I suppose it depends on how thorough the summary would be.
I guess if it's the only option I have to continue reading it until the end of the arc and/or western release, but it's not really a desirable way to experience a story.

Kilgamayan

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Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
« Reply #98 on: June 02, 2017, 11:13:24 AM »
Consider it karmic retribution for sneaking into the movies for free for years. ?_(ツ)_/?
[22:40:12] <Drake> "guys i donwloaded esod but its not workan"
[22:40:21] <Drake> REPORTED
[22:40:25] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> PROBATED
[22:40:30] <Drake> ORGASM
[22:40:32] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> FUCK YEAH

[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
« Reply #99 on: June 02, 2017, 11:22:11 AM »
Consider it karmic retribution for sneaking into the movies for free for years. ?_(ツ)_/?
Hard to consider it Karma when that was the only way you could actually see the film.
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Flandre5carlet

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Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
« Reply #100 on: June 02, 2017, 11:23:51 AM »
Consider it karmic retribution for sneaking into the movies for free for years. ?_(ツ)_/?

Yeah I mean it's not like I have the physical releases or anything.

N-Forza

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Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
« Reply #101 on: June 02, 2017, 12:52:06 PM »
My proxy service has been around for as long as FS has been running, so there's no real excuse other than "I don't understand the language and I didn't want to pay that much."

I agree it's not desirable but even as recent as a few years ago getting simulcast anime subbed legitimately was unheard of, so under the current conditions, it strikes me as entitled to expect this comic series (or any for that matter) to be instantly caught up. There's a number of factors limiting that sort of thing (demand, for one) or I'm sure they'd love to have it released all at once too.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2017, 12:56:42 PM by N-Forza »

Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
« Reply #102 on: June 02, 2017, 01:03:49 PM »
There are only 6 volumes of FS out right now, and they seem to be planning to release one every 3 months (starting in November). They'd catch up pretty fast, imo.

Flandre5carlet

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Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
« Reply #103 on: June 02, 2017, 01:09:20 PM »
Well, that'd still end up in a 2019 release of the 6th volume - if they stick to that rhythm, of course - while the series continues to advance Japan-side, unless it'd have ended by then.
I don't really follow localizations very often though, so I can't say whether that's a fast or slow overseas release pace, but it does feel like a fairly long time to catch up to current story point.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2017, 01:12:11 PM by Flandre5carlet »

Jeremie

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Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
« Reply #104 on: June 02, 2017, 02:04:46 PM »
I think the circumstances are really what's causing so many much frustration and I'd say it's more a matter of it being inevitable than just pure self-entitlement although it goes without saying that there's some folks who are that way, people who suddenly explodes in anger, sending hate-filled or lulzy comments to people who does fan work, projects and all that or who feels people owes them.

Forbidden Scrollery is currently at what is a cliffhanger that interests a lot of fans and suddenly, news of an English localization suddenly pops up. As far as I can tell, this is one, if not the first time we get official Touhou material that way so all these little things added together means that the impact that suddenly just happened from the current fan translation being stopped from that just can't be helped. Do that with any media that has a fanbase and that'll happen and Touhou is by no means an exception.

Personally, I think it's important to remember and be grateful of all the awesome amount of translated stuff both fan and official we already have. When you think about it, it's pretty crazy how many folks have worked on all of this and it shows how amazing the fanbase is. IMO I strongly agree that those worried about the current translation being stopped shouldn't be too concerned since someone will most likely keep on going but I also think it's important to respect Clarste's choice and reasons even though his opinion about Eirin Yagokoro is and always been wrong and horrible.*

*: Just kidding of course  :3. ~
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nyttyn

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Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
« Reply #105 on: June 02, 2017, 03:39:43 PM »
On the plus side this means zun is still interested in getting stuff to the western Fandom, because as I understand it publishers take their writers/artists super seriously and I don't think a English localization would have been in the cards if zun hadnt signed off in it. A good sign after how much of a failure the playism stuff wound up being.

Lebon14

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Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
« Reply #106 on: June 02, 2017, 04:38:27 PM »
To note, I'm not sure if anyone complaining about why Clarste had to stop now of all times rather than earlier is really thinking about that line. It isn't like Forbidden Scrollery only exists when it is being translated, obviously, so for people expressing that it's a shame that they won't get to know what happens for the chapters going into the future, they should probably consider that if Clarste had stopped even earlier, these chapters would y'know still exist, and people would be just as upset not knowing what was happening. In the same vein, because we don't know how the book will continue into the future, you can't really say that you would be okay if Clarste just stopped at the end of this arc, people are just picking this point because it's pretty likely there's nothing "important" immediately afterwards. Meanwhile if important stuff did happen people would be mad again.

Personally I'm still a bit struck that the biggest reaction to an official english licensing of a Touhou manga is "shit now I can't read the manga anymore".

I know that it's indirectly aimed at me since I brought that up. And you ended up with the wrong conclusion as to why I have loved Clarste to stop translating sooner. Sure, the chapters would still exist. However, I wouldn't know of their existance and the increasing tension in them. In other words, ignorance is bliss. And it's the same as for the future arcs.

I think the circumstances are really what's causing so many much frustration and I'd say it's more a matter of it being inevitable than just pure self-entitlement although it goes without saying that there's some folks who are that way, people who suddenly explodes in anger, sending hate-filled or lulzy comments to people who does fan work, projects and all that or who feels people owes them.

Forbidden Scrollery is currently at what is a cliffhanger that interests a lot of fans and suddenly, news of an English localization suddenly pops up. As far as I can tell, this is one, if not the first time we get official Touhou material that way so all these little things added together means that the impact that suddenly just happened from the current fan translation being stopped from that just can't be helped. Do that with any media that has a fanbase and that'll happen and Touhou is by no means an exception.

Pretty much this. You said it way better than I could have said it.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2017, 04:58:19 PM by Lebon14 »

Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
« Reply #107 on: June 02, 2017, 08:57:51 PM »
While i don't understand Yenpress decision to serialize a manga that's almost near its end (I still totally support it,BTW) .Why can't they release all six volumes to catch up with the Japanese version, using fan-translation (AKA clarste) version to speed up the translating speed while letting professionals double-check them to preserve the quality ??? And if they're worried about the sales, print them a small number at a time to receive feedback while push up the releasing speed, like, a volume/month or smt. IMHO, that seems pretty intuitive
This was posted under the assumption that clarste would collaborate with Yenpress some way or another so if that's impossible then guess we'll have to wait a few years to "officially"  get our hands on FS ending anyway.

Prime32

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Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
« Reply #108 on: June 03, 2017, 01:36:48 AM »
Why can't they release all six volumes to catch up with the Japanese version, using fan-translation (AKA clarste) version to speed up the translating speed while letting professionals double-check them to preserve the quality ???
While that kind of thing does happen sometimes, I've never heard of it happening with a manga.

Translating a game involves way more text, with the translator not always having context for where it appears. Unlike a series you have to translate the whole thing before you can start selling it (and can't use early chapters to test the waters), making it a riskier investment. It can also require you to make heavy changes to the game engine, and it's a lot easier to pay for a pre-made solution to that than to risk running into technical issues like "KeineH" that can stall development.

Compared to that... some manga might be trickier to work with than others, but the process is always straightforward and predictable, and they've got a ton of experience at it.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2017, 01:50:32 AM by Prime32 »

Lebon14

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nyttyn

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Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
« Reply #110 on: June 03, 2017, 03:17:38 AM »
Well, the reason why they can't just pay for Clarste's work is kind of three fold? Putting aside the issue of 'why don't they just release it at a super-speed cycle," which is its own can of worms (that boils down to 'wow they would burn SO MUCH money never in a thousand years')

First off all, there's the issue that they'd have to spend time and effort on trying to contact Clarste and sort out a deal when...they already have a translation team that they pay to handle this stuff. Second issue is, well. Said team probably isn't keen on yen press turning to fan translators, it might start digging into their own work safety. And thirdly, and this is probably both the most important thing...

With all due respect to clarste, and I'm eternally grateful he's translated the work so far - his translation job has issues. Things like Mamizou...not really having any sort of accent for awhile when, in the original text, she's almost like a grandma. To what extent the translation's flawed, I'm not really qualified to say, and again I have to clarify this statement by saying I love the fact he translated this stuff for us and I'm not trying to bash the man's work here, but for something as short as a print work I don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell of a company that already has a paid TL team on staff trying to go through the trouble of getting a fan translation even if it was utterly perfect, so a fan translation (which understandably so) that has flaws has...well, a negative chance.

Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
« Reply #111 on: June 03, 2017, 03:40:45 AM »

First off all, there's the issue that they'd have to spend time and effort on trying to contact Clarste and sort out a deal when...they already have a translation team that they pay to handle this stuff. Second issue is, well. Said team probably isn't keen on yen press turning to fan translators, it might start digging into their own work safety.

While I admit that doing this is unnecessary for most manga out there, certainly it would be easier (compared to tediously digging through the wiki) to rely on pre-existing fan translation for a franchise with such a long continuity like Touhou, right?

Quote
With all due respect to clarste, and I'm eternally grateful he's translated the work so far - his translation job has issues. Things like Mamizou...not really having any sort of accent for awhile when, in the original text, she's almost like a grandma. To what extent the translation's flawed, I'm not really qualified to say, and again I have to clarify this statement by saying I love the fact he translated this stuff for us and I'm not trying to bash the man's work here, but for something as short as a print work I don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell of a company that already has a paid TL team on staff trying to go through the trouble of getting a fan translation even if it was utterly perfect, so a fan translation (which understandably so) that has flaws has...well, a negative chance.
I understand that the translation has issues but that's why i said it still needs to be double-checked by professionals, just putting it out as an idea as to how long-time fans can catch up to the latest chapter of FS right away.And why would using clarste's tranlation be difficult ??? He would most likely greenlight it and it's not like he would ask to be paid for it (I still love your TL btw, clarste).
On another note,is there any confirmation that FS is ending (other than fan speculation) or is this just the end of the first major arc in FS ?


Drake

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Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
« Reply #112 on: June 03, 2017, 03:49:47 AM »
I know that it's indirectly aimed at me since I brought that up. And you ended up with the wrong conclusion as to why I have loved Clarste to stop translating sooner. Sure, the chapters would still exist. However, I wouldn't know of their existance and the increasing tension in them. In other words, ignorance is bliss. And it's the same as for the future arcs.
I wasn't talking about you specifically, but that perplexes me. Do parts of the series just not exist to you if you can't access them in a consumable format? Do you not pay attention to new releases and stuff if you can't see it? I can't understand that line of thought at all, especially in a fandom such as Touhou. Even if nobody ever ended up translating FS at all the english fandom in general isn't going to be oblivious to the work (they're just going to complain nobody's translating it for them), so if you're saying you would be oblivious to it, my comments don't apply to you I guess?

While i don't understand Yenpress decision to serialize a manga that's almost near its end (I still totally support it,BTW) .Why can't they release all six volumes to catch up with the Japanese version, using fan-translation (AKA clarste) version to speed up the translating speed while letting professionals double-check them to preserve the quality ???
cause that's plagiarism lol

Yeah I mean it's not like I have the physical releases or anything.
I totally get your point here but even if you buy the tankobon you wouldn't be entitled to reading the serialization, so it's more like you're sneaking into the movies for free but still buying the DVDs later.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2017, 04:00:09 AM by Drake »

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Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
« Reply #113 on: June 03, 2017, 04:08:18 AM »
I wasn't talking about you specifically, but that perplexes me. Do parts of the series just not exist to you if you can't access them in a consumable format? Do you not pay attention to new releases and stuff if you can't see it? I can't understand that line of thought at all, especially in a fandom such as Touhou. Even if nobody ever ended up translating FS at all the english fandom in general isn't going to be oblivious to the work (they're just going to complain nobody's translating it for them), so if you're saying you would be oblivious to it, my comments don't apply to you I guess?
Not sure if the word is appropriate here, but it's basically "color of the sky" + "a round object".
Or another analogy, the difference being given a free meal than having it be taken away while you're eating, and not given a meal in the first place.

D-T

Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
« Reply #114 on: June 03, 2017, 04:25:30 AM »
Y'all you're not gonna have to wait like 3 years to finish FS because there is literally zero chance someone else won't pick it up

Drake

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Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
« Reply #115 on: June 03, 2017, 05:12:31 AM »
Not sure if the word is appropriate here, but it's basically "color of the sky" + "a round object".
Or another analogy, the difference being given a free meal than having it be taken away while you're eating, and not given a meal in the first place.
Being upset at getting blocked at the climax is understandable, but ultimately I don't think it's all that worse than not being able to read any of the stuff up to this point either. Supposing it was stopped earlier and nobody translated it at all, english fans would just be clawing onto random pictures from the chapters and making speculations about what they were seeing anyways, then it'd be like "nooo this volume is where stuff actually happens why did we stop at vol6" or whatever. There was a pretty steady buildup in this volume so stopping at any point at least during vol7 probably would have had a similar outcome.

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Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
« Reply #116 on: June 03, 2017, 06:22:14 AM »
With all due respect to clarste, and I'm eternally grateful he's translated the work so far - his translation job has issues. Things like Mamizou...not really having any sort of accent for awhile when, in the original text, she's almost like a grandma. To what extent the translation's flawed, I'm not really qualified to say, and again I have to clarify this statement by saying I love the fact he translated this stuff for us and I'm not trying to bash the man's work here, but for something as short as a print work I don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell of a company that already has a paid TL team on staff trying to go through the trouble of getting a fan translation even if it was utterly perfect, so a fan translation (which understandably so) that has flaws has...well, a negative chance.

Yes, my work is far from perfect, and honestly I don't think it would even save them that much time or effort compared to starting from scratch.

Lt Colonel Summers

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Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
« Reply #117 on: June 03, 2017, 06:28:07 AM »
We have an happy ending guys!

Good to hear that! Now we can see the conclusion to
Spoiler:
Demon Kosuzu
and Reimu vs Yukari in one month's time!
« Last Edit: June 03, 2017, 06:29:57 AM by Lt Colonel Summers »
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Flandre5carlet

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Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
« Reply #118 on: June 03, 2017, 11:42:10 AM »
I totally get your point here but even if you buy the tankobon you wouldn't be entitled to reading the serialization, so it's more like you're sneaking into the movies for free but still buying the DVDs later.

Fair. I didn't know I had any access to the serialization at all up until this thread actually, while access to the physical releases was fairly easy (for once) thanks to channels like amiami.

Zelinko

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Re: Yen Press licenses Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
« Reply #119 on: June 03, 2017, 12:50:34 PM »
So who are these 'other guys'
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