Maidens of the Kaleidoscope

~Bunbunmaru News~ => Front Page Headlines => Topic started by: Gpop on October 30, 2017, 04:13:56 PM

Title: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Gpop on October 30, 2017, 04:13:56 PM
http://tohonetwork.doorblog.jp/archives/72952312.html

ZUN has just recently announced on stream that two of the main/canon games will be released on the Steam platform! The first game that will be released is 東方天空璋 ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons. The second game will be the upcoming touhou fighter, 東方憑依華 ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers, in which he has also announced that a physical release will be released in Winter Comiket. The Steam release is planned for 2018.

Thank you NForza for the quick summary of the stream announcements on twitter!
https://twitter.com/NForza26/status/925015246942609408
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: CyberAngel on October 30, 2017, 06:03:28 PM
R.I.P. Touhou 1995-2017

It was a good doujin series.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: shockdude on October 30, 2017, 06:22:26 PM
oh boy, that's a headline all right.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: RoamerB on October 30, 2017, 06:23:31 PM
R.I.P. Touhou 1995-2017

It was a good doujin series.

Wow, way to kill the mood before it's even set. Can't you feel at least a little hype from this?
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: BernkastelWitch on October 30, 2017, 06:42:07 PM
This is a slight shocker since I remember ZUN a few years ago saying he is interested in Steam but was nervous due to its policies. Of course, I feel like Steam Greenlight was the big issue there and that's out of the way so that explains him changing his mind.


And to people who think this is a bad thing, it really isn't. There are many other games that went to Steam and nothing changed from them except for much easier access for fans(CAVE Shmups and Ikaruga being some related examples).

Honestly, I am a bit glad for this since it'll be easier to get to play the games legally and buy them without having to import them.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Hope ♦ Metal on October 30, 2017, 07:15:46 PM
Meanwhile DDC is all alone on Playism with only a fangame to keep it company. Did the thing with Playism not work out or something? On a side note: How much of a chance is there to get every official game on Steam (not counting PC98 I guess)? Because apparently ZUN doesn't want to go back to those old games or let other people tinker with them so it doesn't seem like there is much of a chance for that, but then again this whole thing proves that ZUN changing his mind happens often enough.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Fluury on October 30, 2017, 07:19:33 PM
R.I.P. Touhou 1995-2017

It was a good doujin series.

Are you serious? This is amazing news - not only will this make touhou a lot more accessable for people in the west, but itll also just generally come with a bunch of cool things like steam integration, backgrounds, badges - maybe even steam netplay for 15.5!

Is this some kind of hipster thing?
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: the old guy on October 30, 2017, 07:32:48 PM
R.I.P. Touhou 1995-2017

It was a good doujin series.

Remember when Playism ruined Touhou forever? Oh no, it didn't.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Uruwi on October 30, 2017, 08:56:57 PM
Whaaaaaaaaaaaat?!! This is earth-shattering. ZUN turning to Steam, and with official games to boot?

Last time I checked, ZUN was opposing it.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: CyberAngel on October 30, 2017, 09:19:26 PM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joke
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wit

Check these out. They're pretty useful.

I just poked fun at the ranters that will inevitably spring up and call this the next downfall. But it also had another meaning. Touhou isn't some obscure doujin thing anymore. It's a full-blown worldwide-accessible commercial project now!
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: RoamerB on October 30, 2017, 09:29:02 PM
We know what sarcasm is and we realize that it's difficult to discern from genuine statements on the internet.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Chaotic Phoenixma on October 30, 2017, 09:33:55 PM
Definitely excited and hope more comes out of it. I probably would buy the shooters myself on Steam eventually. Not so much interested in the fighters though.

Also hoping this potentially opens the door for fangame releases as well. Though I'm not really familiar with which ones are worth playing, so I would only really be interested in the Desunoya ones at the moment. Though obviously I would definitely look into them if they were allowed too.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: game2011 on October 30, 2017, 10:22:57 PM
So 15.5 will be coming out this year?
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: AzyWng on October 30, 2017, 11:06:44 PM
Can't help but wonder if this will ever happen to games like Kantai Collection...

But I suppose that'd be a matter for a different thread anyway.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Gesh86 on October 30, 2017, 11:18:35 PM
I'm totally on board for this and will now wait for the Steam releases of these two rather than importing them.

I checked if they were already on the store as a preview, but nope. Would have honestly preordered them, but doing that so long in advance is reserved for AAAA games I guess  ::).
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Spotty Len on October 30, 2017, 11:26:08 PM
All aboard the Gabe train.

(https://i.imgur.com/YD7AYoO.jpg)
(Thanks DracoGideon)

I don't see it changing that much for the series, considering most people interested in Touhou already are in the fandom, but it will definitely bring some new people, and we'll be able to support ZUN more easily now.

Probably no translation and no cards and stuff, but it's a start. And hopefully, good netcode for AoCF.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: game2011 on October 30, 2017, 11:44:07 PM
Can't help but wonder if this will ever happen to games like Kantai Collection...

But I suppose that'd be a matter for a different thread anyway.
Kancolle already has Vita and arcade releases, so I think they're way ahead of Touhou in this sort of thing.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Failure McFailFace on October 31, 2017, 01:21:29 AM
wait what

so how long until the other games are on steam then
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: N-Forza on October 31, 2017, 01:36:48 AM
Depends on how well HSiFS takes.

The failure of DDC on Playism is almost certainly related to the lack of a translation, but at least with Steam, it's possible he can add support for easily adding fan patches through Steam Workshop, so that could help quite a bit.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: nyttyn on October 31, 2017, 02:26:05 AM
I'd temper any expectations of seeing Steam Workshop support, much less Emoticons, Cards, or Achievements until further announcements are made. After the Playsim release it's safer to assume this will be a barebones, game only release - it's possible he learned a lesson, but right now there's no way to know that for certain.

I'll get beyond hyped if he actually does HSiFS the support it deserves but until then I'd reccomend anyone getting their hopes up - we'll know for certain soon enough, after-all.

No idea about ACoF since TasoFro will probably be handling that and they're, frankly speaking, a wild card, to the point where...I, uh, have to wonder if we might wind up with a situation where HSiFS makes it way over here but ACoF does not and is relegated to Japan-steam only.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: KaiserKnuckle on October 31, 2017, 02:42:02 AM
I'd temper any expectations of seeing Steam Workshop support, much less Emoticons, Cards, or Achievements until further announcements are made. After the Playsim release it's safer to assume this will be a barebones, game only release - it's possible he learned a lesson, but right now there's no way to know that for certain.

I'll get beyond hyped if he actually does HSiFS the support it deserves but until then I'd reccomend anyone getting their hopes up - we'll know for certain soon enough, after-all.

Thinking about it, I wouldn't be surprised to see much achievement support when it comes to the game, since I know that ISC having achievements was due to the game's structure, and ULiL only put in achievements due to the submission requirement for PS4 games. On the Steam side, games like Dustforce and Undertale also only begrudgingly put in one single achievement in due to Steam's own submission guidelines requiring them (don't quote me on this, though).

...but at least with Steam, it's possible he can add support for easily adding fan patches through Steam Workshop, so that could help quite a bit.

The thought of Workshop support for Touhou games would be rather interesting; I can see translations and misc. graphics mods showing up there, but I do wonder if ZUN would have interest in doing that.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: N-Forza on October 31, 2017, 03:09:27 AM
Steam doesn't require achievements, but Sony does.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: teefa85 on October 31, 2017, 03:11:21 AM
Well...looks like I know what I'll be buying on Steam in the coming months!  Yeah!  I'm always happy to make supporting ZUN's work easier since importing usually relies on me waiting for a time until I have a larger order.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: MrNoobomnenie on October 31, 2017, 04:06:27 AM
Check these out. They're pretty useful.
In case of characterising your comment THIS is actually much more useful:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: the old guy on October 31, 2017, 06:15:24 AM
I just poked fun at the ranters that will inevitably spring up and call this the next downfall. But it also had another meaning. Touhou isn't some obscure doujin thing anymore. It's a full-blown worldwide-accessible commercial project now!
You've made that "joke" before, and no one found it funny then. We still don't find it funny now. Along with your history of acting out at people for no reason, its becoming really hard to tell when your jokes are jokes. Ether you need to work on your ability to avoid Poe's Law, or you were not joking.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on October 31, 2017, 06:44:15 AM
Please, guys, let's not have your arguements here unless you specifically want the mods to lock this thread.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: CyberAngel on October 31, 2017, 07:58:36 AM
Oh, I have nothing against this development. I know I can trust ZUN enough not to ruin his own games.

But I've been around here for long enough. Not my fault everyone cares so little that they can't tell whether I'm likely to say something like this seriously or not. Plus I hope that local fools lashing out now (as expected) will discourage the actual naysayers.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: RegalStar on October 31, 2017, 11:59:44 AM
Pls no region lock
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Tengukami on October 31, 2017, 12:06:36 PM
I think as a matter of general courtesy it's a good idea to not deliberately bait people. Find it hard to believe that even needs saying.

On the subject of this news: I can't remember how many times I've heard people declare that Touhou has finally gone mainstream thanks to [X] happening, for good or ill. In my own anecdotal experience, mentioning the series in any number of mainstream vidya fan groups I'm in almost always invokes either "literally who?" or vague recollections of having heard of the game. Still, Touhou is clearly occupying some vague area between doujin and something closer to mainstream; this one guy is still doing the production himself, but Steam is of course not the same as a table at Comiket.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: not ZUNs wife on October 31, 2017, 04:37:40 PM
I look forward to this.

Come to think of it, Hidden Star in Four Seasons is a very representative Touhou game, with its light-hearted tone and variety of gameplay.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Hello Purvis on October 31, 2017, 05:52:06 PM
Holy sheepshit. I never thought this would happen.

Well shit, now I have to find money for these. THANKS GABEN >=|||



Does Steam allow for non-English language games to be released? That is, will it have to be translated, or can it be tossed on there raw?
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: KaiserKnuckle on October 31, 2017, 06:45:14 PM
Does Steam allow for non-English language games to be released? That is, will it have to be translated, or can it be tossed on there raw?

Yes. A recent Chinese release, Barrage Musical (http://store.steampowered.com/app/665270/___Barrage_Musical__A_Fantasy_of_Tempest/), states on the page that it does not have English support, so I assume there are other games on Steam with that same situation.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: #JUNKO4TH15.5 on October 31, 2017, 11:27:06 PM
AoCF release date tho, YESSS.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Drake on November 01, 2017, 07:10:23 AM
For reference, ZUN starts the Steam talk at 35:45 of Nikenme #86 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrR1Y2BP-9M).

Misc. things I gathered on a relisten: (because I was first listening on a bus through shitty earbuds while asleep)
- ZUN wants to release HSiFS-Steam before AoCF releases because he wants it to be first, while Unabara plans to release on Steam shortly after the AoCF physical release. This gives him a soft deadline.
- ZUN seems to further suggest that there wouldn't be any international features, if that wasn't already obvious.
- Part of why he wouldn't bring Touhou to Steam before was a translation requirement, but at some point that washed away so it's more feasible. Which makes it clear he doesn't intend for any sort of translation.
- He briefly mentions that he'd have preferred if Japan had a similar platform overtaking Steam, but since one didn't appear... [then Steam is fine]
- ZUN also doesn't discount the possibility of more of the games coming out, but I think everyone already assumed that without confirmation anyways.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Hello Purvis on November 01, 2017, 07:57:34 AM
Okay, I have a question.

Has anything been said on pricing, yet?
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Drake on November 01, 2017, 08:18:42 AM
nah, assume it will be equivalent to base price with conversion
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: N-Forza on November 01, 2017, 08:58:18 AM
- He briefly mentions that he'd have preferred if Japan had a similar platform overtaking Steam, but since one didn't appear... [then Steam is fine]
I get where he's coming from, but still.

ROFL
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Drake on November 01, 2017, 11:04:08 AM
same

(And by "overtaking" I do imagine more specifically a Japanese platform that becomes competitive with the Steam ecosystem for indie games in Japan, not actually something that beats Steam wholesale. He very clearly says 勝てる though.)
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Fluury on November 01, 2017, 01:32:46 PM
International features being what exactly? Achievements, or?

No translation (probably) happening is an obvious bummer which will scare a way a lot of potential buyers, sadly.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Drake on November 01, 2017, 02:45:52 PM
I say "international features" in the general sense of translations and offering any kind of language support. Entirely possible there won't be his self-translated custom.exe or even a non-Japanese Steam page (is this allowed?). I'm paraphrasing, not quoting him.

That being said, achievements and other such trinkets will even more definitely not happen if ZUN can avoid doing them. If there's anything that will keep the man from releasing on a new platform it's giving him more work to do for literally no benefit.

I don't think it's productive to talk about a lack of translation "pushing away" potential buyers when the game is, in all official capacities, not translated to begin with. If people don't click because they don't even understand what the game is then you haven't really lost anything; Touhou (and most games) spreads through word of mouth, not so much blind discovery. If people get to to the point where they don't want to buy purely because it isn't translated, they'd also have to avoid the fact that many other people do play the game translated. In this case we assume these people want to play the game, so if it can be easily figured out that the game has a fan translation, this is easily resolved. I think this use case is a good opportunity to bring back static patches that can be easily applied to any random buying the game, because god knows many people won't want to go through the full setup of thcrap.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Mero on November 01, 2017, 03:24:01 PM
Okay, I have a question.

Has anything been said on pricing, yet?
DDC was 15 USD on Playism iirc, seems like a reasonable price for Steam to follow

International features being what exactly? Achievements, or?

No translation (probably) happening is an obvious bummer which will scare a way a lot of potential buyers, sadly.
Well, you don't really need to know Japanese to just play, most basic menu options are already in English, and one can easily tell who's what character and figure out the controls after a few minutes. Even then, Steam has its own forums for games, which would help give exposure to things like thcrap (and maybe even have proper static patches, like Drake suggested)

I do wonder if this is why ZUN's been holding up the 1.00b version of HSiFS, there are some game breaking bugs in the current version, and those usually do get revisions made for
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Fluury on November 01, 2017, 05:13:13 PM
Well, you don't really need to know Japanese to just play, most basic menu options are already in English, and one can easily tell who's what character and figure out the controls after a few minutes. Even then, Steam has its own forums for games, which would help give exposure to things like thcrap (and maybe even have proper static patches, like Drake suggested)

I say "international features" in the general sense of translations and offering any kind of language support. Entirely possible there won't be his self-translated custom.exe or even a non-Japanese Steam page (is this allowed?). I'm paraphrasing, not quoting him.

That being said, achievements and other such trinkets will even more definitely not happen if ZUN can avoid doing them. If there's anything that will keep the man from releasing on a new platform it's giving him more work to do for literally no benefit.

I don't think it's productive to talk about a lack of translation "pushing away" potential buyers when the game is, in all official capacities, not translated to begin with. If people don't click because they don't even understand what the game is then you haven't really lost anything; Touhou (and most games) spreads through word of mouth, not so much blind discovery. If people get to to the point where they don't want to buy purely because it isn't translated, they'd also have to avoid the fact that many other people do play the game translated. In this case we assume these people want to play the game, so if it can be easily figured out that the game has a fan translation, this is easily resolved. I think this use case is a good opportunity to bring back static patches that can be easily applied to any random buying the game, because god knows many people won't want to go through the full setup of thcrap.

Thanks for clarifying.

Steam works kinda differently and appeal to a lot more different folk; If they see Touhou on the frontpage or anything like that, they'll check it out and end up seeing everything in a language they dont understand. That alone is extremely unattractive to most customers - and while there are patches, most people dont want to download unofficial patches to make the game playable in english. People just wanna play the game, not jump through extra hoops.

As they say, convenience is king, and it not getting any official translation or whatever is a shame if you ask me.

On the other hand: Does the same go for 15.5? No Translation alongside of no achievements/cards/whatever other steam gimmicks? And more importantly - in 15.5's Case, is there anything to measure if it'll have proper Steam "Online features" such as "Join game" and the like, or will it be bare-bones? I often see people calling Tasofro a "wild card" in that sense.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Drake on November 01, 2017, 08:45:41 PM
Thing is that's only relevant for reach. ZUN doesn't need reach, he already has it. He is also likely still mainly concerned with reception by the Japanese side, in which case not having translations is obviously unimportant for reach. On the international side, this is about accessibility, not reach; the intention is not to spread but to allow people to purchase easily overseas and at a legitimate price point.

Convenience being critical to purchase is why this is important. Being on Steam is the convenience. The majority of this fanbase still pirates absolutely everything and a significant part of that is because of the lack of cheap and convenient ways to purchase, which Steam unequivocally solves. This is just one game to be released so far, but realize that this changes the situation from one where: some people find buying to be cumbersome and expensive, some people don't know how to buy the games, and some people don't even know Touhou isn't freeware to begin with; to a situation where you pretty much literally cannot make it easier for the western audience to see and buy.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Hello Purvis on November 01, 2017, 09:11:05 PM
and some people don't even know Touhou isn't freeware to begin with

This is a biggie. People talking about pirating the games is by far the most common report the moderators get.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Fluury on November 01, 2017, 10:12:53 PM
Thing is that's only relevant for reach. ZUN doesn't need reach, he already has it. He is also likely still mainly concerned with reception by the Japanese side, in which case not having translations is obviously unimportant for reach. On the international side, this is about accessibility, not reach; the intention is not to spread but to allow people to purchase easily overseas and at a legitimate price point.

Convenience being critical to purchase is why this is important. Being on Steam is the convenience. The majority of this fanbase still pirates absolutely everything and a significant part of that is because of the lack of cheap and convenient ways to purchase, which Steam unequivocally solves. This is just one game to be released so far, but realize that this changes the situation from one where: some people find buying to be cumbersome and expensive, some people don't know how to buy the games, and some people don't even know Touhou isn't freeware to begin with; to a situation where you pretty much literally cannot make it easier for the western audience to see and buy.

You are right I suppose - perhaps translation, caring about reception overseas etc. are gonna be things that will be relevant in the far future.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: TresserT on November 02, 2017, 01:06:24 AM
Thing is that's only relevant for reach. ZUN doesn't need reach, he already has it. He is also likely still mainly concerned with reception by the Japanese side, in which case not having translations is obviously unimportant for reach. On the international side, this is about accessibility, not reach; the intention is not to spread but to allow people to purchase easily overseas and at a legitimate price point.

Convenience being critical to purchase is why this is important. Being on Steam is the convenience. The majority of this fanbase still pirates absolutely everything and a significant part of that is because of the lack of cheap and convenient ways to purchase, which Steam unequivocally solves. This is just one game to be released so far, but realize that this changes the situation from one where: some people find buying to be cumbersome and expensive, some people don't know how to buy the games, and some people don't even know Touhou isn't freeware to begin with; to a situation where you pretty much literally cannot make it easier for the western audience to see and buy.

Isn't that all kind of rendered moot when ZUN says "if Japan had a platform that could compete with steam I'd put it there instead"? If his goal was to make it accessible internationally, wouldn't that kind of defeat the purpose?
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Drake on November 02, 2017, 03:27:22 AM
I think you're reading into that that he would rather keep the series exclusive to Japan? That completely is not the case. He just wants it to be easy and hassle-free without silly language barriers and legal issues on his end. Having the platform being based in Japan would just not have these issues. I think it would be warranted to guess that overseas accessibility in particular isn't the primary goal, like I said above, but it is still a goal that they talked about explicitly on the stream. If there were a Japanese platform competitive with Steam, I imagine that at the very least it wouldn't limit its sales within Japan just because. Considering it's Japan, having no international reach might theoretically not be considered a dealbreaker, but I remain optimistic that it would be.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: N-Forza on November 02, 2017, 04:01:18 AM
That sounds about right. Though he already has a relationship with Playism (whatever its current state might be), it's hard to deny that Steam's made more inroads with the Japanese PC market.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: dosboot on November 02, 2017, 01:17:07 PM
Zun got our macaroni greeting cards.  *sniffles* (つ﹏<。) ... ٩(^ᴗ^)۶
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: friend on November 02, 2017, 01:42:41 PM
zoop
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: AzyWng on November 02, 2017, 01:49:06 PM
Jesus, and people complained about CyberAngel?s post...

Dunno if this is Poe?s law or if you?re actually seroius here.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: friend on November 02, 2017, 02:02:24 PM
I am always deadly serious.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Gpop on November 02, 2017, 02:03:23 PM
I don't think translations will be an issue, because there's already been a multitude of cases of Steam games allowing people to mod it for their convenience, and I'm pretty sure Touhou will be no different.

The game will most likely be released on Steam in Japanese, but I'm certain fan translation patches will work on it as well, and if not, they can be slightly modified to work for those versions, because I highly doubt ZUN will go after people modifying the game to make it more accessible outside of Japan.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: qMyon on November 02, 2017, 02:12:04 PM
That's nice. Makes it far easier to actually pick up the game.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Fluury on November 02, 2017, 02:43:37 PM
Jesus, and people complained about CyberAngel?s post...

Dunno if this is Poe?s law or if you?re actually seroius here.

It's bait probably

What I'm primarily interested in is if ZUN will release future products and use Steam's patch system to his advantage.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Aya Reiko on November 02, 2017, 06:46:12 PM
I get where he's coming from, but still.

ROFL
Not even Kyouko could make that ROFL loud enough.  I've been casually observing the Japanese side of the industry for awhile, and there is, or will be in the foreseeable future, no way that was ever going to happen.

As for the games, I'll approach this with curiosity.  Mainly concerned with the price, and, to a lesser extent, translation patches.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: brliron on November 02, 2017, 10:06:11 PM
Regarding translation patches, translating a steam game with thcrap seems possible.

(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/213769640852193282/375386373823135754/thcrap__Steam.png)
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Drake on November 02, 2017, 11:41:17 PM
Good to know. As I recall the standalone patches are more or less drag and drop; I think this should be focused on for getting any new players on board, because like I said god knows people not already invested in the series aren't going to want to set up thcrap in full.

Might also be a good idea to go over the translation again, as a personal note.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on November 03, 2017, 11:46:08 PM
hoping for cheevos and trading cards because i'm a tool
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Lebon14 on November 04, 2017, 12:06:32 AM
Credit to RomantiqueTp; HSiFS's page is already up on Steam:
http://store.steampowered.com/app/745880/__Hidden_Star_in_Four_Seasons/
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: shockdude on November 04, 2017, 01:07:32 AM
the store page is completely Japanese. hahahaha.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Drake on November 04, 2017, 02:24:23 AM
as if i didn't call all of that already, no surprise


Also just to mention, the game is being published by Mediascape, which runs the Play,Doujin! program. The head of the company is D.N.A. (https://twitter.com/dnasoftwares), who for those unaware is a close friend of ZUN. The importance of this is in keeping the management of everything close to home, which is something ZUN's always tried to do as much as possible.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Drake on November 06, 2017, 05:17:30 AM
Minor note, in ZUN's announcement (https://twitter.com/korindo/status/927353694013624320) on his twitter earlier today that TH16 is coming to Steam (which up until now has only been other people announcing it), he does say "first is HSiFS", making it clear he does want to continue releasing games on Steam.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Chill Observer on November 07, 2017, 09:47:37 AM
reading the steam discussion forums for hsifs makes me want to die.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Nolegs the Cat on November 07, 2017, 12:43:55 PM
reading the steam discussion forums for hsifs makes me want to die.

They make me want to alternate between laughing out loud and dying. I feel bad for any japs that can read English enough to understand it all tbh

I doubt this will have much of an effect on the side of the overall fanbase, even on the western side. I'm curious as to if there will be leaderboards though.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Mero on November 07, 2017, 04:47:50 PM
reading the steam discussion forums for hsifs makes me want to die.
"Touhou is truly the Cuphead of BloodSouls games."

This line embodies everything I expected to see out of Steam
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Fluury on November 07, 2017, 05:22:14 PM
reading the steam discussion forums for hsifs makes me want to die.

Steam forums be Steam forums, there are a few rational threads in there and people asking for help so I'd still look out for those
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Hope ♦ Metal on November 07, 2017, 08:07:42 PM
"Touhou is truly the Cuphead of BloodSouls games."
What does that even mean?  ???
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: AzyWng on November 07, 2017, 09:08:59 PM
What does that even mean?  ???

I'd ask the words themselves what they think, but I think that sentence was bad enough to damage every one of them so I'll just wait until they recover.

But just like what Fluury said, Steam forums are Steam forums. While the people who talk about the game might be fools, the people who actually play the game...

Well, hopefully they're not as bad.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Lebon14 on November 07, 2017, 10:05:04 PM
reading the steam discussion forums for hsifs makes me want to die.

As a general rule of thumb, like YouTube comments on large followings channels, you don't read them. It's cancerous. Always will be.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Fluury on November 08, 2017, 06:13:34 AM

But just like what Fluury said, Steam forums are Steam forums. While the people who talk about the game might be fools, the people who actually play the game...

Well, hopefully they're not as bad.

You are aware the people that are currently mingling around in the Steam forums are folk that play the game? They are just a bunch of poopyposters from /jp/ and other sub-communities, otherwise they wouldnt be in the forum.

So essentially; Don't hope the players arent like that, because they already are.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: andykhang on November 08, 2017, 03:41:18 PM
What does that even mean?  ???

Amateur translation time!

Cuphead == Bullet Hell

BloodSouls == Dark Soul -like game

Essentially, the Dark Soul of Bullet Hell game (even though Touhou is on the mid side...)
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: JayRS on November 08, 2017, 04:25:34 PM
This is probably a bad idea, because ZUN will get relentlessly attacked by trolls, and then he'll hate the English fanbase...
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: andykhang on November 08, 2017, 04:41:51 PM
...It's not like there isn't troll and toxicity within Japanese fanbase though. I think he's prepare, with such a long legacy with him.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Drake on November 08, 2017, 09:52:06 PM
This is probably a bad idea, because ZUN will get relentlessly attacked by trolls, and then he'll hate the English fanbase...
Nah. Seriously, by all indications ZUN doesn't read any kind of random comments from fans. He also barely knows any English at all. I doubt having an awful discussion board or review section will matter (to him at least), but he might look at the overall review numbers.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Fluury on November 09, 2017, 04:18:46 PM
while im positive there will be a lot of joke reviews I very much doubt the game will land on anything under "very positive"
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Shadowlupus on November 09, 2017, 04:27:07 PM
Even if there's a serious amount of Touhou hater/troll reviews, fans will help drown them out anyway.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: WishMakers on November 11, 2017, 02:40:11 AM
About a week left, and I'm staying optimistic for this.
Haven't even touched the Steam discussion boards and the like.
Purely hoping that the game does well enough that 1) we can support ZUN for most of the games people have been pirating for so long, maybe even older titles like EoSD if we're lucky and 2) good netcode for AoCF...please please please
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: shockdude on November 12, 2017, 12:49:42 AM
Touhou 16's trial is also going to be on Steam (https://steamdb.info/search/?a=app&q=hidden+star+in+four+seasons). Nice.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on November 12, 2017, 05:17:13 AM
I'm curious as to if there will be leaderboards though.
From what it looks like the game will have absolutely no integration with Steam other than being distributed through it. I'm not even sure if it'll use Steamworks DRM.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: N-Forza on November 14, 2017, 05:37:39 AM
There was a brief interview with ZUN about the Steam releases posted today that clears up a few things: https://www.gamespark.jp/article/2017/11/14/76810.html

Not only will the release of past works depend upon how HSiFS performs, but it will also depend upon if the game will be able to run on newer systems, since EoSD in particular might not work without some tinkering. Also, he does not plan to include things like trading cards at the moment, but for the Tasogare games, that might be a possibility. He's also considering the inclusion of the event-exclusive Gold Rush with Danmaku Amanojaku as a bonus should that get released.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: CyberAngel on November 14, 2017, 09:18:34 AM
EoSD can work on newer systems just fine, but yeah, it might need some actions that not all users are savvy enough to perform ("DirectX? What's that?"). And for non-Japanese users the problems pretty much double (AppLocale doesn't work on Win10, from what I know).

That said, if EoSD (or other games) will be deemed too outdated I hope someone suggests that ZUN releases them on Steam as freeware anyway. There are quite a few cases like that out there already (well, ones that I know of are all DOS games that come with DOSBox, and that thing needs tinkering in some cases as well).
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: N-Forza on November 14, 2017, 01:15:21 PM
Another interview from IGN: http://jp.ign.com/tohotenkusho/19395/news/steamzunproject

This has something a little meatier in that he is basically giving the OK for Touhou fangames to be added to Steam.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: WishMakers on November 14, 2017, 04:34:32 PM
Quote
This has something a little meatier in that he is basically giving the OK for Touhou fangames to be added to Steam.

Ok, wow.  That's huge.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Sedrife on November 14, 2017, 06:03:59 PM
Another interview from IGN: http://jp.ign.com/tohotenkusho/19395/news/steamzunproject

This has something a little meatier in that he is basically giving the OK for Touhou fangames to be added to Steam.

Original Interview Text:
――ちなみに東方ProjectのローカルルールにはZunさんがリリースしたプラットフォームでは、二次創作をリリースしても良いというものがありますが、今後、Steamで東方Projectの二次創作がリリースされる可能性はあるのでしょうか。 (もちろん、これはZunさんの意志によるものではないと思いますが。)

たぶん出て来ると思いますよ。そういった事情もありましたよね。Steamで二次創作出したいってう問い合わせも多かったので。それはもう僕が出ていれば問題ないでしょうという流れで、出て来ると思いますよ。

――なるほど、ではあとは各サークルによりますが、出て来る可能性があるということですね。

各サークルの判断によりますね。こちらでは問題ないという形です。
 
Rough Translation:
Q: There is an insider's rule that one can release Touhou derivative works to the platform as long as ZUN implemented it first.  (Now that ZUN implemented Touhou on Steam), is there a possibility on having Touhou derivative works on Steam? 

ZUN: I'm sure it can come.  Now that I think about it, there were a lot of requests that they wanted to release their derivative works on Steam.  Now that I first made my move, I'm sure there's no big problems, is how I think about it.

Q: Then, if there are Touhou dervative circles willing, Steam release is possible?
ZUN: I'll let them decide on that.  From my side, there are no problems.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This also looks like a good read, from thcrap people.

http://thcrap.nmlgc.net/announcements/th16steam.html

What I got out is that Playism's TH14 was sold such that it doesn't run under Western OS environment, and that Steam's TH16 release shouldn't go through the same path.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Drake on November 15, 2017, 04:17:01 AM
demo's out
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: shockdude on November 15, 2017, 06:35:42 AM
demo's out
It's literally the demo that was released at Reitaisai 14. The file checksums are exactly the same.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: BernkastelWitch on November 15, 2017, 04:21:31 PM
It's literally the demo that was released at Reitaisai 14. The file checksums are exactly the same.

And it should come as no surprise that THCrap is compatible with this version. That's all I wanted to know. I had a hunch it would since it just seemed like all Steam is for it is just a digital spot.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Helepolis on November 16, 2017, 12:53:50 PM
Fan games being allowed on Steam is a huge step forward. It is great to see ZUN is slowly but surely moving onto such platforms. This makes me wonder about my own game, perhaps in the near future I might consider rehauling all data to make it "my own version" and see if I can get a steam version going(?)
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: shockdude on November 17, 2017, 08:03:16 AM
Steam Cloud support confirmed. (https://steamcommunity.com/games/745880/announcements/detail/2469524457499398522)
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Drake on November 17, 2017, 09:28:40 AM
Steam Cloud support confirmed. (https://steamcommunity.com/games/745880/announcements/detail/2469524457499398522)
Very likely done just through Steam Auto Cloud (https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features/cloud#steam_auto-cloud) targeting the game's AppData folder, considering that stuff is what's being synced.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Drake on November 17, 2017, 02:20:25 PM
game's out http://store.steampowered.com/app/745880/__Hidden_Star_in_Four_Seasons/
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: brliron on November 17, 2017, 03:44:44 PM
The game uses Steam DRM, and so isn't supported by thcrap yet. We are currently working on it.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: N-Forza on November 17, 2017, 03:57:14 PM
Currently 87 on the best-sellers list with over 400 reviews, a big chunk of them being in Chinese.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Shadowlupus on November 17, 2017, 04:40:06 PM
Now it's on the 5th on global sale and has overwhelmingly positive reviews. Hope this helps more people notice the game.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Stuffman on November 17, 2017, 05:02:54 PM
This has something a little meatier in that he is basically giving the OK for Touhou fangames to be added to Steam.

Oof, get ready for a flood of westerners with low-quality products trying to make a quick buck off the touhou name.

I suppose it's worth it if we get access to some of the good stuff, though.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Iced Fairy on November 17, 2017, 05:10:15 PM
Oof, get ready for a flood of westerners with low-quality products trying to make a quick buck off the touhou name.

I suppose it's worth it if we get access to some of the good stuff, though.
I'll suffer through some nonsense to get Koumajou on steam for sure.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Suwako Moriya on November 17, 2017, 05:30:28 PM
Last I heard, Frontier Aja disbanded some time ago. I don't know if there are any people left in place to legally do that.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: WishMakers on November 17, 2017, 05:45:47 PM
Bought my copy and left a good review, that's the best I can do for now.
The fact that the game is trending on Steam is amazing though.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Chill Observer on November 17, 2017, 06:20:53 PM
i wonder if we'll ever see danmakufu fangames on steam lmao. that would be a hilarious meme
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: shockdude on November 17, 2017, 07:07:47 PM
i wonder if we'll ever see danmakufu fangames on steam lmao. that would be a hilarious meme
danmakufu "fangame" with steam workshop support would be a sight to behold.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: the old guy on November 17, 2017, 11:58:38 PM
Steam review that made me laugh a little:

Quote
Buy it so Reimu can afford dog food for herself and Aun
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: N-Forza on November 18, 2017, 03:17:34 AM
Oof, get ready for a flood of westerners with low-quality products trying to make a quick buck off the touhou name.

I suppose it's worth it if we get access to some of the good stuff, though.
Still gotta get a license first, probably through Mediascape.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Stuffman on November 18, 2017, 07:33:46 AM
Oh, you do? Well, things should be fine then.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Lebon14 on November 19, 2017, 03:58:20 AM
A thread was made on ResetERA (NeoGAF successor)
https://www.resetera.com/threads/touhou-tenkuushou-hidden-star-in-four-seasons-touhou-16-now-out-on-steam.6677/

Positivism all around.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: andykhang on November 19, 2017, 10:12:29 AM
Well, the hype machine is still going on and all. Guess we have to wait for a few week before it ran off.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: WishMakers on November 19, 2017, 05:33:45 PM
I didn't notice until the ResetERA thread that ZUN talked about the fan translation patches in the IGN interview.
I'm sure it was probably mentioned somewhere in the thread, but I don't remember.
Still interesting to me that ZUN has some doubt with the professional translators, considering the fate of Forbidden Scrollery right now.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: shockdude on November 19, 2017, 07:39:05 PM
Thcrap support is up. Nice.
No Steam controller support, though.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: TableCloth on November 20, 2017, 06:17:36 AM
"Overall reviews: Overwhelmingly Positive"

Man, people do love their Touhou, don't they?
The price is also surprisingly affordable, which is a big YASSS for me.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: andykhang on November 20, 2017, 07:28:38 AM
It's only like, 2 days or so you know?
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Chill Observer on November 20, 2017, 10:39:25 AM
also keep in mind a significant portion of this consumer base is chinese, they have a far larger fanbase than we do and just about everyone i've talked to that i know from china are very enthusiastic about the release.

example thread that my chinese friend has made over on steam (https://steamcommunity.com/app/745880/discussions/0/2425614539586351986/)
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: WishMakers on November 20, 2017, 07:02:17 PM
It is quite the spectacle that Touhou is the highest rated game on Steam at the moment.
On the other hand, with how fanbases can get (on Steam in particular), this could turn ugly potentially.
I'm cautiously optimistic.  On the bright side though, this further increases the chances of past games on Steam which is more than welcome.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Rei Scarlette on November 20, 2017, 07:44:28 PM
It is true that it has a very high rating right now, but those numbers still need time to settle down and stabilize a bit. Unlike the other games that have been sitting on the list for a very long time and were subject to the opinions of a very wide range of people, this game is still mostly being reviewed by people who were already Touhou fans.

The number of people who are finding this game on their own right now is quite vastly outnumbered by the people who have been wanting Touhou to get on Steam for years. Because of that the reviews are almost entirely positive, so it'll stay at or near 99% until more people start noticing it. It's at the top right now because that's just how the system works.

After the initial hype wave and the flood of one-liner-upvote reviews dies down a bit, I expect it to drop down a bit once more people start noticing it. I'm not saying anything for or against the quality of the game of course, but you have to admit the score is a bit inflated right now. If most of the people who know about it yet are the people who already like it, the score will be nearly flawless, is what I'm trying to say.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: CyberAngel on November 20, 2017, 07:53:00 PM
On the other hand, with how fanbases can get (on Steam in particular), this could turn ugly potentially.

As if toxic newcomers are anything new for WTC. Many places have seen their share of drama and stood.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: WishMakers on November 20, 2017, 08:12:32 PM
Quote
As if toxic newcomers are anything new for WTC. Many places have seen their share of drama and stood.

I suppose so.  I'm moreso worried about Touhou getting a bad rep from haters more than anything.  But that also doesn't really matter too much.

Rei Scarlette is totally right though.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: andykhang on November 21, 2017, 12:53:21 AM
The playing time shown don't help either. Most of them never passed an hour, despite the time to actually finished the game on Normal would be at least Triple that. It's still really early so I hoped its heedless paranoid, but this disjointed between the actual time to play the game, and the time people already like and actually played the damn thing before, and probably only played for a short time due to the hype and support, would jarred both hardcore and casual gamer new to this, if this keep going on.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Silent Harmony on November 21, 2017, 01:11:31 AM
Touhou already has a bad reputation among haters though, especially in the western shoot-em up community, due to it's lack of polish both in gameplay and presentation. That said there's a good number of players who are still able to like Touhou alongside more polished titles such as Crimzon Clover and most arcade titles, and if "haters" wanted to make a negative impact they'd already have done so. The most likely scenario is that the future of the series on Steam will be decided primarily on the eastern audience's reception, and so far I see no signs of it dropping a significant degree.

The playing time shown don't help either. Most of them never passed an hour, despite the time to actually finished the game on Normal would be at least Triple that. It's still really early so I hoped its heedless paranoid, but this disjointed between the actual time to play the game, and the time people already like and actually played the damn thing before, and probably only played for a short time due to the hype and support, would jarred both hardcore and casual gamer new to this, if this keep going on.

Touhou, like most shmups, takes only 30-45 mins to credit-feed a bad ending. Most people do not care about earning a 1cc (or don't understand the importance of it); instead they credit-feed arcade-style games once and never touch them again. These people then tend to feel ripped off for spending $15 on a sub-hour game and leave a negative review. I know this because it's happened with a lot of shmups released on Steam over the last few years. The fact is, though, that these people tend to be in the vast minority and the games themselves tend to get good reviews overall.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Drake on November 21, 2017, 04:36:33 AM
I'm not sure why this isn't immediately obvious, but many people playing an hour or less before reviewing have likely already played the game previously. You can't judge anyone by how much time they've put into this version when another has already existed for months.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Silent Harmony on November 21, 2017, 07:38:55 AM
It's funny Drake, I swore I mentioned the fact that many of the Eastern fans likely have already bought the physical version, but re-reading my post there is no mention. Great example of over-editing a post before submission.  :derp:
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Chill Observer on November 21, 2017, 09:56:52 AM
Most of them never passed an hour, despite the time to actually finished the game on Normal would be at least Triple that.
A run of the game only takes ~20-25 minutes, somewhere between that range. I'll be generous and say 25 minutes.

If you're replaying the game on different difficulties, characters, or delving into practice/spells, then yes the playtime would be higher, but I wouldn't expect most people to play the game for more than a few hours at most. Besides, as Drake mentioned, most people of that category have already played the game before, regardless of the means. There's a portion of people who bought the game just as a means of "support", since means to do so is pretty difficult before this, so those people are also included in the <1 hour club.

Personally I just got my lunatic 1cc and left, ages ago. I did also play around with the game a bit, tweaking with mods and game files and stuff, but otherwise I'd say I didn't spend much time on this game at all. Compare to people like Yatsuzume who took the time to get LNNN, or a bunch of friends who focused on scoring extra or other difficulties, which definitely clocks up quite a bit of hours.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Quwanti on November 21, 2017, 11:50:35 AM
So over 10.000 people (http://steamspy.com/app/745880) appear to have bought the game already, which is great! I think this is definitely a success. Really hoping for the new fighter and Danmaku Amanojaku releasing on steam in the future.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Fluury on November 21, 2017, 12:29:43 PM
Do we have any idea what kind of expectations ZUN had for this release and/or how well Playsim sold compared to 10k?

We might see this as a success but for all we know ZUN expected double :V (even though I doubt that, ZUN seems like a down-to-earth kind of guy to me)
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Drake on November 21, 2017, 12:34:51 PM
10000 copies is routinely how much ZUN seems to press for main releases at events (3000 for demos). Hitting that is unambiguously a success.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: WishMakers on November 21, 2017, 05:16:43 PM
Quote
10000 copies is routinely how much ZUN seems to press for main releases at events (3000 for demos). Hitting that is unambiguously a success.

Well then, that's a good sign.  I'm not expecting anything else coming to Steam until spring next year at least however.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Hainiryuun on November 22, 2017, 02:58:39 AM
Well, you figure Steamspy has it at ~16k copies sold. 16,000 x 14.99 = $239,840. After Steam's 30% cut is taken out, that's still ~$168k. I would think that is a very nice amount of money for ZUN.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Drake on November 22, 2017, 03:26:35 AM
It's best to take a conservative estimate on the lower side of the confidence interval, especially since 10k sales isn't enough of a sample size to produce a precise result, as even stated by the developers.

Also a friendly statistics reminder that a using a 98% confidence interval does not imply that there is a 98% probability of the true total sales number being within that interval, even if it seems very reasonable to make that conclusion.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: MrNoobomnenie on November 23, 2017, 03:39:19 PM
Well, you figure Steamspy has it at ~16k copies sold. 16,000 x 14.99 = $239,840.
This calculation has no sense, because the game is actually has a different price in the different countries. For an example, in Russia it costs only 360 rubles (~6$).
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: myon on November 23, 2017, 04:10:50 PM
This calculation has no sense, because the game is actually has a different price in the different countries. For an example, in Russia it costs only 360 rubles (~6$).

In addition, also consider that Valve takes a certain percentage from each sale. The devs and publishers do not receive the full payment.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: andykhang on November 23, 2017, 04:50:07 PM
Would still make him at least a 100k though. Don't know if that's profit or not though, since I don't really know his production cost.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Fluury on November 23, 2017, 05:11:39 PM
http://steamcommunity.com/games/745880/announcements/detail/1459592783024629623

Uploading and/or Streaming any endings after Stage 6 and the Music Room music is now prohibited.

Incredibly stupid and outright weird decision? ZUN seems fine with people selling touhou fangames, 3d figures, prints etc. yet streaming the Extra Stage ending is off the charts?

I seriously doubt they'll go through with this but this isnt a direction I wanted Touhou to go in with the Steam Release.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Agentzap on November 23, 2017, 05:27:36 PM
Isn't that part of ZUN's terms of use? (https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki:Copyrights#Copyright_status.2FTerms_of_Use_of_the_Touhou_Project) It seems like they just want it to be enforced.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: andykhang on November 23, 2017, 05:31:36 PM
It's a thing from like forever, really. It's kinda like a badge of pride/full experience thing.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: nintendonut888 on November 23, 2017, 05:32:01 PM
http://steamcommunity.com/games/745880/announcements/detail/1459592783024629623

Uploading and/or Streaming any endings after Stage 6 and the Music Room music is now prohibited.

Incredibly stupid and outright weird decision? ZUN seems fine with people selling touhou fangames, 3d figures, prints etc. yet streaming the Extra Stage ending is off the charts?

I seriously doubt they'll go through with this but this isnt a direction I wanted Touhou to go in with the Steam Release.

ZUN has always had a rule against showing endings, especially in video form. If you go on Nicovideo and look up streams, you will find that the vast majority of streamers shut off the footage during the endings. IIRC he wishes for the endings to be a reward for a successful 1cc, which is why he's placed a general prohibition on them. I'm pretty sure this only refers to the endings that play after the final boss is defeated, so everything in extra is fine.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Fluury on November 23, 2017, 05:37:29 PM
ZUN has always had a rule against showing endings, especially in video form. If you go on Nicovideo and look up streams, you will find that the vast majority of streamers shut off the footage during the endings. IIRC he wishes for the endings to be a reward for a successful 1cc, which is why he's placed a general prohibition on them. I'm pretty sure this only refers to the endings that play after the final boss is defeated, so everything in extra is fine.

This is news to me.

In all honesty Im mostly confuzzled about prohibiting the uploads of Music? Touhou isnt known for it's Story or characters (atleast in the West) but for it's music. Cutting that off Youtube is essentially shooting yourself directly into the foot, as it cuts off the Number one "How I found out about 2hu".
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: myon on November 23, 2017, 05:39:04 PM
It's moreso posting the music and video footage on Steam that can net you trouble from the community management for HSiFS. I don't think they're gonna launch an attack on the songs uploaded onto Youtube.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: andykhang on November 23, 2017, 05:39:56 PM
It's only the showing of the Music Room that's forbidden though. The music itself is fine, and you could find all of the stage and boss music of Touhou pretty easily anyway.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: myon on November 23, 2017, 05:41:11 PM
It's only the showing of the Music Room that's forbidden though. The music itself is fine, and you could find all of the stage and boss music of Touhou pretty easily anyway.

Right, probably due to avoiding spoilers in general. Since there's already a spoiler warning in the music room and all.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: andykhang on November 23, 2017, 05:42:12 PM
Well, the rule exist since forever, but judging from initial comment, it's look like new audience isn't used to this kind of thing.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Fluury on November 23, 2017, 05:47:03 PM
Well, the rule exist since forever, but judging from initial comment, it's look like new audience isn't used to this kind of thing.

People are used to big boy companies shutting down Youtube videos and streams, people associate this with exactly that.

Also Steam screenshots quite literally have a spoiler function...
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Agentzap on November 23, 2017, 06:27:26 PM
People are used to big boy companies shutting down Youtube videos and streams, people associate this with exactly that.

Also Steam screenshots quite literally have a spoiler function...

I like the idea of ZUN being a big boy company, lol. This is just a personal request from him, I imagine.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Drake on November 23, 2017, 10:49:17 PM
This is just a personal request from him, I imagine.
This is how he's always operated. I think it'll be extremely funny if this is actually enforced at all.

Part of the perceived level of sternness is due to the language of "prohibit" and whatnot, which while meaning the same in Japanese, the flavour it imparts is essentially "I am not allowing you to do this" rather than "you're going to jail". This is the same kind of text you'd find on any other doujin work forbidding unauthorized reproduction and so on.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on November 24, 2017, 07:10:53 AM
It isn't just official Touhou games that's affected by the "do not spoil the ending" rule.
Fangames also have the streamers (usually) cut off their streaming immediately before the ending. Heck, even games that are directly inspired by Touhou (Seihou, Nansei, Barrage Musical, and even Len'En) have their respective fandoms respect the rule with utmost seriousness.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Lebon14 on November 24, 2017, 07:40:08 AM
Western gamers are quick to forget games like Persona 5 where Atlus pretty much banned anything past a certain in-game time... Which pretty much amount to the same thing with Touhou but only the endings and music room.

Do I agree with it? No, and I never did. But if people want to respect it, that's okay. Also, people need to realize that you can see all endings by reading the translation patches......... Which is helpful for people like me that aren't into the games.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Chill Observer on November 25, 2017, 12:47:32 PM
Friendly reminder that information regarding spoiler-related content is readily available on the internet - for example, do a quick search on Touhou endings on YouTube. It is pointless to even try and enforce such rules.

The posting and viewing of spoilers, as long as it is marked, is fine imo. This should be up to the viewers' discretion - it is all on you if you decide to step into spoiler-related territory. If you are clicking a video titled "Touhou 16 Endings", the title alone should be telling of what is in it before you even click it. It should not be to the extent of being prohibited to show spoilers even if specific viewers wishes to spoil themselves. This was something that made zero sense to me when I got into Touhou.

Most people who I know don't really care about endings etc. in the first place. At least, that's the case when I saw Twitch/YouTube streams. It probably is exactly what you described for Niconico streams though.

I'd understand a first-day no-spoiler policy rule, but after that, there's no point.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Drake on November 25, 2017, 02:43:59 PM
1) Discussing endings is fine, it's the contents that are requested to not be posted. Why post the contents of the endings when you can already discuss it, especially under spoiler tags? In the same vein, because similar arguments are used, why would anyone need to stream the music room? The one requiring the most effort to avoid is streaming endings, and even that's trivial with at least OBS.

2) This will in all likelihood not be enforced (if so, minimally), and it shouldn't have to be. We as a community should be able to police ourselves with a decent level of respect.

3) Saying that you can already find the ending contents isn't a reason to further enable the spread of it. Trying to get rid of all instances everywhere has never been the point (and similarly for music room uploads). This argument without any further depth applies equally well to e.g. piracy, where because you can easily find it already there's no use in trying to stop it anywhere, which is obviously silly. In fact, I think having the endings being available to find elsewhere already is a good reason for trying to prevent its spread, as the fact that you can find it if you want should be enough for anyone interested, and nothing further is ever necessary.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Sedrife on December 06, 2017, 08:21:16 AM
There's an important update regarding ZUN's stance towards launching Touhou derivative work on Steam.

The update happened on Touhou Station Nico Nico Live that happened on December 2nd.

Link: http://live.nicovideo.jp/gate/lv308906910

ZUN has personally explained his new stance of Touhou derivative games launching in steam and elsewhere with four simple slides. 

This is to affirm and clarify the interview content when ZUN launched Hidden Star in Four Seasons on Steam (http://jp.ign.com/tohotenkusho/19395/news/steamzunproject)
Q: Then, if there are Touhou dervative circles willing, Steam release is possible?
ZUN: I'll let them decide on that. From my side, there are no problems.


Slide 1: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQWOcGhXkAA-ttd.jpg
"In regards to Selling Touhou Derivative Games Online"
Date - 2017, December 2nd


Slide 2: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQWOf8xXkAAU4T0.jpg
"If Touhou Derivative Games are sold through Steam"
Advantage: You can manage everything yourself
Disadvantage: You need to manage everything yourself (ex. how to deal with taxes, submitting forms to Valve, etc. etc.)
Advantage 1: Publishers can handle all the petty jobs
Advantage 2: ZUN gets a share of your money (managed by the publishers)
Disadvantage: Due to demands of the publishers, some of your requests may not be met

Slide 3: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQWPNnvXUAAAvxw.jpg
"If Touhou Derivative Games are sold online other than Steam"

Slide 4: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQWPZ0xX4AMhXBY.jpg
"What about selling derivatives other than games online?"

This probably requires update on other threads like https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=17915.0 and https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki:Copyrights
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Drake on December 06, 2017, 10:37:06 AM
Also see: https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,21175.0.html

I agree those places will need updating at some point, but I think both need some revamping in general. The thread on Touhou derivative and doujin creation basically needs a whole rewrite because as-is it's not very clear; meanwhile it's come to my attention that putting the fanbase's main connection to the derivative guideline translation in the wiki's copyright section of all things makes no sense and needs to be more visible, at minimum being its own page, but probably more could be done. Both of these changes require a significant amount of effort though.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: N-Forza on December 06, 2017, 12:31:12 PM
Please wait warmly.
Do I even have to say it?
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: WishMakers on December 06, 2017, 06:19:08 PM
lol @ N-Forza

This is pretty promising stuff however.  I'm not sure how many Western fan-games, if any at all, will take advantage of this route (I always figured I would consider it if it became a possibility) but it certainly brings along some interesting possibilities, like ido games and the like (are they sold?  I was never really sure.  This example may not apply)

I'm glad the guidelines had some revisions, however, even if they are small.  I'm in agreement that the whole thread pertaining the derivative guidelines on MotK should be made at least a bit clearer if possible, last time I read them I didn't know them fully, and have made my fair share of mistakes regarding them.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: SuperVehicle-001 on December 07, 2017, 07:12:22 PM
Slide 2: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQWOf8xXkAAU4T0.jpg
"If Touhou Derivative Games are sold through Steam"
  • Case 1: You sell the game on your own by registering the software on Steam
Advantage: You can manage everything yourself
Disadvantage: You need to manage everything yourself (ex. how to deal with taxes, submitting forms to Valve, etc. etc.)

So how's this work?

If I had a Touhou fangame, would I just need to submit it to Valve, and then it'd free for anyone to buy as if it was any other game and ZUN wouldn't do anything about it? (or at least as long as I don't do something really stupid like claiming the intellectual property is mine and stuff)
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: WishMakers on December 07, 2017, 07:41:31 PM
Quote
So how's this work?

If I had a Touhou fangame, would I just need to submit it to Valve, and then it'd free for anyone to buy as if it was any other game and ZUN wouldn't do anything about it? (or at least as long as I don't do something really stupid like claiming the intellectual property is mine and stuff)

I would assume that's how it works.  Unless the guidelines on ZUN's website are updated and there's a specific way of going about it, that's a fairly logical conclusion to draw from the slides.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: SuperVehicle-001 on December 08, 2017, 12:33:05 AM
It just strikes me as too simple, somehow. But if that's how ZUN wants to go about it then I guess that's okay.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: N-Forza on December 08, 2017, 12:56:42 AM
Presumably, yes. Just mention it's a derivative work and you should be clear.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Drake on December 08, 2017, 04:11:44 AM
And y'know don't run afoul of other obvious things like not using other people's content.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Drake on December 08, 2017, 11:32:47 AM
I've been meaning to go back and listen to the last Nikenme (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOzsjV-v4mw) for a while because ZUN talked about the Steam release there. Starts at 31:00.

Here's some paraphrasing, but my listening comprehension sucks and ZUN mumbles a lot so it's difficult to hear what he's saying most of the time. I only went through a couple minutes; I'll probably just wait for littletrailhand to summarize, whenever they get around to it.

O: Tenkuushou has, at the time, 3200 reviews.
Z: Woah, that many?
O: When I first looked it was around 2000, but when I checked today there were 3170 reviews. Out of those reviews... the number that did not recommend was only something like 26 (laugh)
Z: (laugh)
O: "Overwhelmingly Positive" (laugh)
Z: Wonderful.
O: For matter out of the non-recommendations there was only one in Japanese.
Z: (laugh)
O: But really, there were only about 40~50 reviews in Japanese, and the rest were non-Japanese.
Z: Well, people outside Japan can buy it now.
O: That's what I'm saying, yeah. If you look, many of the reviews say stuff like "Now I can finally give ZUN money".
Z: Ah, nice. [mumbles something about people giving money, both laugh]

Z: The most important thing here is that this is the first time for a lot of people that they can officially buy the games.
O: Before Steam there was Kishinjou on Playism... (laugh)
Z: [something about playism]
O: But this is the first time you can buy directly, so to speak.
Z: [something about steam and foreign languages]
O: [something about only speaking japanese]
O: A lot of the reviews came from Asia; China and Korea...
Z: Well really the first time I said I wanted to bring the games to Steam would have been Atlanta, probably.
O: What year was that? (laugh)
Z: 2013, I think? So four years ago.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: WishMakers on December 08, 2017, 04:36:24 PM
Quote
Z: Well really the first time I said I wanted to bring the games to Steam would have been Atlanta, probably.
O: What year was that? (laugh)
Z: 2013, I think? So four years ago.

Oh man, I remember that!  I don't remember him saying anything about Steam but it's been a couple years since I've seen the transcript from then.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Poison Cat on January 05, 2018, 03:58:13 PM
is there any difference between the steam release and the game released in august? have the glitches been fixed or not?
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: shockdude on January 05, 2018, 04:20:08 PM
is there any difference between the steam release and the game released in august? have the glitches been fixed or not?
For HSiFS, the only difference is the implementation of SteamWorks DRM; no glitches were fixed. The Steam release is compatible with Thcrap, which also includes bugfix patches for Spell Practice in addition to translation patches.
Not sure about AoCF at this time.
Edit: Apparently AoCF has no DRM and thcrap is compatible (https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1258243128), which means the AoCF Steam release is identical to the C93 release.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Poison Cat on January 05, 2018, 04:53:02 PM
For HSiFS, the only difference is the implementation of SteamWorks DRM; no glitches were fixed. The Steam release is compatible with Thcrap, which also includes bugfix patches for Spell Practice in addition to translation patches.
Not sure about AoCF at this time.
Edit: Apparently AoCF has no DRM and thcrap is compatible (https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1258243128), which means the AoCF Steam release is identical to the C93 release.

It's quite disappointing that there are no fixes. Anyways, thank you for the info!
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Clarste on January 08, 2018, 05:13:16 PM
There was a patch released for AoCF on the same day as the Steam release.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: CrestedPeak9 on March 16, 2019, 05:32:27 AM
https://store.steampowered.com/app/937570
https://store.steampowered.com/app/937580/
ISC and LoLK on Steam??!
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Gesh86 on March 16, 2019, 08:40:04 AM
I'm surprised ISC made it there before DDC. It's kind of important to know who Seija is when you play her photo-game  :D. Then again, most buyers will be fans who are in the know anyway.
Definitely going to grab LoLK, the one mainline Windows Touhou game I've never played. I'm especially interested in its pointdevice mode. Super Meat Shrine Maiden  :derp:.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Nimono on March 22, 2019, 04:08:25 AM
-whoops i made a mistake-

That's cool that ZUN's adding LoLK in! Maybe now I'll get a chance to try it. :D
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Drake on April 02, 2019, 02:07:55 AM
They up, go get em

https://store.steampowered.com/app/937580/__Legacy_of_Lunatic_Kingdom/
https://store.steampowered.com/app/937570/__Impossible_Spell_Card/
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Gesh86 on June 04, 2019, 06:04:37 PM
And we have two more new (old) ones:

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1043230/__Ten_Desires/ (https://store.steampowered.com/app/1043230/__Ten_Desires/)
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1043240/__Double_Dealing_Character/ (https://store.steampowered.com/app/1043240/__Double_Dealing_Character/)

I'm wondering now if this was the limit of how far ZUN will be counting backwards. Is it realistic to be seeing 17-year old grandpa of a shooter EoSD at some point?  :3
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Sophilia on June 04, 2019, 07:56:11 PM
Surprising to see 10D.  I thought ZUN said at one point he didn't have the master for anything pre-DDC anymore.  But if he's gotten around that, the sky is the limit.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Sheep on June 05, 2019, 06:12:43 PM
I hope STB and SA are released for steam too ... they are old games, but personally they are my favorites.
Although, yes, I do not think that ZUN will ever fix things like the Marisa B bug in MoF.  :(

Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Serela on June 05, 2019, 10:51:38 PM
He had a HDD crash or something that wiped all the data he had before he made Mountain of Faith. So, he probably can't go any farther back than that.

That's also probably why there was a sudden art-style crash where he  had been getting increasingly refined in a certain style up to PoFV; he lost all his custom brushes and stuff. Hardly the only time he suddenly shifted in style though, so, not necessarily, but it's something I heard before.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: CyberAngel on June 06, 2019, 07:15:20 AM
IIRC Windows Touhou games never went out of print so at least some company has a copy of the master. Not the source code of course, but ZUN never kept the source materials of old games anyway so he probably doesn't need that to release them on Steam. So yeah, going all the way back to EoSD should be possible.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Drake on June 19, 2019, 06:18:32 AM
DDC and TD are up!
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: NorwegianboyEE on July 08, 2019, 09:42:12 PM
Well, my precious eroge and hentai games have already been turned mainstream on the steam platform so why not Touhou too?
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Lightmaster on July 19, 2019, 01:38:24 AM
We're getting FW and DS at July 30th:

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1100170/
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1100180/
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Failure McFailFace on July 19, 2019, 01:39:44 AM
At this rate I think we're going to get all games from MoF onwards.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Gpop on July 19, 2019, 11:14:23 PM
At this rate I think we're going to get all games from MoF onwards.

Except the Tasofro games it seems (besides AoCF), since it looks like it's more their decision to release those or not.

Feels like mostly ZUN games are being focused on atm, and since ULiL and HM aren't on Steam yet, I don't think we'll expect Soku or SWR anytime soon either.
Title: Re: Two main Touhou games announced for Steam release!
Post by: Sheep on July 22, 2019, 02:17:15 AM
Except the Tasofro games it seems (besides AoCF), since it looks like it's more their decision to release those or not.

Feels like mostly ZUN games are being focused on atm, and since ULiL and HM aren't on Steam yet, I don't think we'll expect Soku or SWR anytime soon either.
Ohh ... but anyway this is a great sign. A few years ago that Touhou was officially out of Japan was just one dream but ... more and more official games are being released to Steam.
Hopefully STB and the rest of the games too.