~Hakurei Shrine~ > Alice's Art Atelier

[Music] Touhou music arranged by Z.A.

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Z_A:
https://soundcloud.com/user-595154314/dreams-and-phantasms

Another ska piece. The name though... really, "Dimension of Reverie"? Come on, there are ice blocks and other sh!7 literally falling on your head >_< anyway, here's the story (as usual).

This little thing has actually been lying around for some time while I was arranging other stuff. Reason? I wasn't sure what to do with the second part. The original, having a cool off-beat, already had the ska vibes, but the calmer second part was asking for something else. Initially, I was considering violin, but that would be another genre, right? More like something along those lines https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKVlHGppsvs. Still good, but not what I had in mind, really. They do use the hammond organ in ska though, so eventually I decided to take that path and completed the arrangement.

This arrangement is probably closer to what Akiyama Uni does, which is what I tried to do in my other ska piece (the Necrophantasia arrange), and it's actually much closer to ska. I wonder if I arranged the last part okay... I mean, ZUN uses those paired notes all the time, when he arranges the trumpets or whatever, but I couldn't really grasp the whole concept. Both notes should fit the scale, that much I figured, but why is it a third down most of the time, but occasionally a fourth? In the end, I think my arrangement for the last part seems a bit too dull and rather plain, compared to how ZUN usually does it, but somehow it also has some Russian flavor, which ZUN really does not do. This is kind of weird, but maybe it's just as well. As for the mixing, I started using the limiter on drums, so they're actually audible here and, hopefully, in my future arrangements as well. Hope you enjoy this arrangement, feedback is still (and forever) much appreciated, please comment if you feel like it (=

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--- Quote ---It does indeed have some really nice music. My favourites are Complete Darkness and Himorogi Burn in Violet, and End of Daylight has a really nice atmospheric feel to it too. My personal interpretation of the piece uses more strings and less synth (it's still there obviously, just not the whole focus), but I do really like yours too!

As for real suggestions though, I'd say your ensemble demands more focus on percussion. I think what really strikes to me is how the bass doesn't really suit the percussion lines. I know it's the original bass, but for accompanying parts (especially the bass) it's much better to redo it based on the arrangement, treating your arrangement more as your own personal interpretation of the piece, instead of a transcription-based interpretation (if that makes any sense at all). Besides this, I enjoyed the music. Keep it up.
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Thanks! I'll consider it.


--- Quote ---On the subject really, I think it's important to distinguish between interpretation works and full unique arrangements. I'd call this more of an interpretation work as it continues to use many similar parts with the same structure as the original. Interpretation arrangements are pretty fun to make really, and I have a few HRtP ones lying around (was going to do the whole soundtrack but got lazy. Maybe some other time?). I think it's really enjoyable to see others' interpretation of a synth work.
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Yaay, this one is an interpretation work as well, like most of the stuff I've done so far. Also, like I stated, I used the material from other, non-Touhou songs here and there. In the Headless Hunter and in Hardcore Youkai Shoujo I really just merged two songs into one arrangement each, and in Chaos Dial I borrowed most of the structure and many parts of the drum lines from another song as well. But yeah, it is fun, and the fun is doubled when using two songs.  Anyway, the promised Himorogi arrangement is still missing the vocals, and the other thing that I'm working on is not yet complete. It's kind of like my Opus Magnum (first of the many to come), it's HUGE and I haven't done anything of such scale so far. Hopefully it will end up good and worth the effort.

I think my mixing has improved, which is why I'm also going to post the fixed versions of some earlier arrangements soon.

GenericArrangements:

--- Quote from: Z_A on October 13, 2018, 09:17:00 PM ---Another ska piece. The name though... really, "Dimension of Reverie"? Come on, there are ice blocks and other sh!7 literally falling on your head >_< anyway, here's the story (as usual).
--- End quote ---
I like me some ska. This is nice.


--- Quote from: Z_A on October 13, 2018, 09:17:00 PM ---This little thing has actually been lying around for some time while I was arranging other stuff. Reason? I wasn't sure what to do with the second part. The original, having a cool off-beat, already had the ska vibes, but the calmer second part was asking for something else. Initially, I was considering violin, but that would be another genre, right? More like something along those lines https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKVlHGppsvs. Still good, but not what I had in mind, really. They do use the hammond organ in ska though, so eventually I decided to take that path and completed the arrangement.
--- End quote ---
Ah, the classic situation of having one section that just doesn't work entirely with the original idea. I like the strumming you put in that section. The section itself doesn't sound very ska-like, but it still sounds nice. That organ is kinda loud though and right in the listener's face, if you get what I'm trying to say. Using reverb or EQ or even stereo merging might help make it a bit less prominent.


--- Quote from: Z_A on October 13, 2018, 09:17:00 PM ---This arrangement is probably closer to what Akiyama Uni does, which is what I tried to do in my other ska piece (the Necrophantasia arrange), and it's actually much closer to ska. I wonder if I arranged the last part okay... I mean, ZUN uses those paired notes all the time, when he arranges the trumpets or whatever, but I couldn't really grasp the whole concept. Both notes should fit the scale, that much I figured, but why is it a third down most of the time, but occasionally a fourth?
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The reason it's occasionally a fourth is because of the scale really, and also because of the specific chord underneath. For example, in C#m, you would usually put a G# underneath a C# to make a fourth, however if there's an A chord underneath then it's better to put an A underneath that C# to make a third. You probably get this already though.


--- Quote from: Z_A on October 13, 2018, 09:17:00 PM ---As for the mixing, I started using the limiter on drums, so they're actually audible here and, hopefully, in my future arrangements as well.
--- End quote ---
Yep, the drums are quite good here!


As a side criticism, I feel like you should find a new soundfont for the brass (and saxophone?) stuff. The way you used the melodies and parts with these instruments was cool and interesting, but it's a little squandered by the sounds themselves. I feel like I've heard better sounds for these instruments, though they can be hard to find sometimes (especially brass, and I don't know why it's that one specifically but it is).
This is a neat arrangement, though I feel it might be good to have more varying sections.

Z_A:

--- Quote ---I like me some ska. This is nice.
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Thanks!

--- Quote ---That organ is kinda loud though and right in the listener's face, if you get what I'm trying to say.
--- End quote ---
Ouchie. Sorry about that. I didn't really expect that it could become TOO loud.

--- Quote ---Ah, the classic situation of having one section that just doesn't work entirely with the original idea.
--- End quote ---
That should probably be alright, considering it's an interpretation arrangement, which means it should retain the lines from the original in every part. Even if it's incorrect from a stylistic point of view.

Even then, I'd still say it's more ska than the last time.

--- Quote ---The reason it's occasionally a fourth is because of the scale really, and also because of the specific chord underneath.
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Ah, this makes much more sense now, thank you! All those dyads vary very subtly to the ear, so having an actual system to rely upon will help improve both the speed and the quality of my work.

--- Quote ---As a side criticism, I feel like you should find a new soundfont for the brass (and saxophone?) stuff.
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You've mentioned that before T_T among all the soundfonts that I use (Arachno, Omega, Airfont, Musyng, SGM for most of the instruments, and several more for specific purposes) I believe SGM has the best barisax, and some of them have more or less decent trumpets and trombones, but none that I really like. I picked the two sounds that seemed alright to me. Maybe if you (or anybody, really) could suggest something of a better quality...

--- Quote ---(especially brass, and I don't know why it's that one specifically but it is)
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I think Adam Neely mentioned it somewhere that recorded brass and wind instruments sound bad altogether, but since my stuff isn't going to be performed live anyway... we'll have to make do with what we have =P

--- Quote ---I feel it might be good to have more varying sections.
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I even have an "extra" section compared to ZUN's piece! Doesn't that count? :)

Z_A:
https://soundcloud.com/user-595154314/pristine-lead

Hope the story doesn't actually bore you to death. Indeed, this arrangement turned out about twice as long compared to my other works. Having finally completed it... would I still call it the "Opus Magnum"? Well, perhaps not, but there is a smaller concept - I'll count this as my nigredo (the first stage of Opus Magnum in alchemy, associated with black). Which is surprisingly fitting, since this tune turned out dark enough to get people asking whether I was making this for Halloween. I wasn't (= that was not even an option, considering I started working on this arrangement almost immediately after I finished End of Daylight (early June), which means it took more than 5 months to complete it altogether. And I don't often plan that far ahead... Its unfinished state has been bothering me very much lately, so I was in a rush to finally get this over with, which is a necessary lesson to me: working faster in the beginning will help avoid eventually getting sick from it later, because doing things in a rush feels bad. Maybe if I took more time to think, I'd have come up with some better ideas for some of the last sections. Or maybe not, but we won't get the chance to find out now.

Would you look at that, we have ourselves a fancy jazz lady here! But, seriously, the character design is so amazing. And it's very nice to have an actual musician in Touhou (well, not that we didn't have before... the Prismrivers, for instance). I kinda really wanted to do something with her theme for a long time, but I guess I wasn't ready back then :) so, about this arrangement... Like I said before, I allowed myself a lot of freedom to modify the lines in order to achieve an interesting sound. I also used quite a lot of instruments (I only have more in the Headless Hunter, and it didn't work out quite well there). I tried my best to come up with some ridiculously complex chords here and there, but since I am new to this, most of those are just 6, 7 and sus4 chords with weird inversions :) Also, this time I wrote the drums myself, they're fairly simple, but I think they work well with the melody. I changed the rhythm of certain parts as well, to put more focus on the lead rather than the beat, and that's the reason for the name.

I just couldn't leave out my fails, could I? The thing is, I didn't really manage to figure out the scale that ZUN used in this composition. Is it some variant of A minor? Not that it really mattered, but at some points I had freaked out: why does it sound so good, yet the scale is so unfamiliar?! A lot of music in Kishinjou sounds rather creepy, so the people asking about Halloween probably had a point: the original piece is powerful, but creepy as well, and I removed most of the power, so the creepy remained... I kinda like that. In the process of arranging the piece and referring constantly to the original, I couldn't help but wonder about some of ZUN's mixing - he really should have done a better job! Next, I finally noticed (and at the very last moment too), that the aforementioned limiter spoils the sound of the drums, so I had to replace it with something else, and with that, the rendering time increased dramatically. You really need to use the VST in moderation! The SoundCloud now has a reminder to upload the files in the highest quality possible, but I only had an mp3 ready, and anyway, I don't feel like posting gigabytes of .wav - my tracks are almost all downloadable, and while the quality is higher, I wouldn't want to bother people with ridiculous filesizes. Maybe next time I'll render in .flac. So... I hope you like this piece! It was, in a way, the hardest for me so far. I'd appreciate your feedback, as always.

PS panning: circular vs triangular => triangular. ONLY triangular. Please.

GenericArrangements:

--- Quote from: Z_A on November 06, 2018, 07:10:59 PM ---https://soundcloud.com/user-595154314/pristine-lead
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Ooh this piece. This is an interesting arrangement.


--- Quote from: Z_A on November 06, 2018, 07:10:59 PM ---And I don't often plan that far ahead... Its unfinished state has been bothering me very much lately, so I was in a rush to finally get this over with, which is a necessary lesson to me: working faster in the beginning will help avoid eventually getting sick from it later, because doing things in a rush feels bad. Maybe if I took more time to think, I'd have come up with some better ideas for some of the last sections. Or maybe not, but we won't get the chance to find out now.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, in my experience it's usually better to do most of it earlier on. Often I finish the mixing part in 2-3 days max, otherwise I never finish it (mainly because of losing motivation lol). Different scheduling works for different people, so soon you'll get an idea of what really works out.


--- Quote from: Z_A on November 06, 2018, 07:10:59 PM ---Would you look at that, we have ourselves a fancy jazz lady here! But, seriously, the character design is so amazing. And it's very nice to have an actual musician in Touhou (well, not that we didn't have before... the Prismrivers, for instance).
--- End quote ---
Raiko is the best music touhou honestly (also one of my favourites in general).


--- Quote from: Z_A on November 06, 2018, 07:10:59 PM ---I kinda really wanted to do something with her theme for a long time, but I guess I wasn't ready back then :) so, about this arrangement... Like I said before, I allowed myself a lot of freedom to modify the lines in order to achieve an interesting sound. I also used quite a lot of instruments (I only have more in the Headless Hunter, and it didn't work out quite well there). I tried my best to come up with some ridiculously complex chords here and there, but since I am new to this, most of those are just 6, 7 and sus4 chords with weird inversions :) Also, this time I wrote the drums myself, they're fairly simple, but I think they work well with the melody. I changed the rhythm of certain parts as well, to put more focus on the lead rather than the beat, and that's the reason for the name.
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I feel like there may still be too few instruments in some way. If you want to sound like you're using a lot of instruments, you need to use a few with rhythmic patterns that fill in the empty spaces for each other. I find this is one of the harder things to do.
I think the chords generally worked well, and I can't point out any particular problem spots.
The drums are simple, but hard to hear over the lead parts (I only just noticed the cool kick rhythm), though the lead's apparently what you're trying to focus on.
Personally, I find that this piece is all about the rhythm (which makes sense because of the character), so the original lead lines generally aren't as interesting as others (except for that one recurring part). Focusing on the lead part feels like a rather strange idea to me.


--- Quote from: Z_A on November 06, 2018, 07:10:59 PM ---I just couldn't leave out my fails, could I? The thing is, I didn't really manage to figure out the scale that ZUN used in this composition. Is it some variant of A minor? Not that it really mattered, but at some points I had freaked out: why does it sound so good, yet the scale is so unfamiliar?!
--- End quote ---
It's actually ZUN doing his weird chord modulations in Am (with the middle section in Cm with a bunch of E naturals appearing everywhere). He tends to do this stuff when making more chaotic pieces, and there isn't really ever a specific "scale" that he follows when he does it.


--- Quote from: Z_A on November 06, 2018, 07:10:59 PM ---A lot of music in Kishinjou sounds rather creepy, so the people asking about Halloween probably had a point: the original piece is powerful, but creepy as well, and I removed most of the power, so the creepy remained... I kinda like that.
--- End quote ---
It's interesting. I believe the original has plenty of chaotic vibes to it, which also disappears here for that more creepy idea.


--- Quote from: Z_A on November 06, 2018, 07:10:59 PM ---In the process of arranging the piece and referring constantly to the original, I couldn't help but wonder about some of ZUN's mixing - he really should have done a better job!
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Haha yeah I've always thought there was something a little off about the mixing in the piece, though it does create a wide sound that is pleasant in some ways.


--- Quote from: Z_A on November 06, 2018, 07:10:59 PM ---PS panning: circular vs triangular => triangular. ONLY triangular. Please.
--- End quote ---
Kinda want to know what this means.


Ok so for overall feedback, this is an interesting arrangement, but is lacking rhythmic variety and maybe variety in tone as well (the sections are distinct, but similar, if that makes sense). The lead lines are a bit loud (particularly that organ) and although it's what you were trying to focus on, it shouldn't take away from everything else. I find the ensemble was what made this arrangement interesting, and I particularly liked the way the strings were used in some sections. When mixing, I feel like you should consider space - pretending as if everything is actually being played in some kind of room (but only to some degree). I only mention this because the organ really fills everything up in its sections. Again, stereo editors can help shrink it down horizontally.

I feel like in this piece you may not have had a full idea of what you were going for (based on what you've written below it), and I can kinda hear that. It's much easier when you have a full grasp of the idea that you then start to get everything going (although for some ideas this is kinda hard anyway - maybe including this one). Though, maybe you did have a full idea, and I'm just not fully understanding of it.

It's an interesting arrangement, particularly concerning the ensemble.

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