Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 11F

[Kirin no Sora]

Allow me to go off the handle about Cirno for a moment. Some  :wikipedia:

Spoiler:

I swear to all that is holy and decent, she has got to be the weakest piece of shit in this damn game. Fracking no defense, shitty resistances, and zip damage output. At least in the first game, her slow debuff was reliable. Here, she wouldn't be able to fucking slow down a snail. Like, dammit, is the proc chance on her slow effing .00000002%?! And the defense thing. I mention it twice because she can RESIST a move (Cold) and still die in one shot. My God, I don't know how they could have made her any worse. Oh, I know, make all other Team ⑨ members good in comparsion. Like seriously, fricking Wriggle is better in every way, even against poison resistant or immune foes. Not that I have Wriggle yet; I'm still stuck on Komachi because no matter what that boat bitch does, it kills Cirno, bringing me down a member. But I still need to bring her, because if nothing else, she MIGHT slow Komachi and she is a great meat shield for Rumia and Marisa...you know, HALFWAY DECENT CHARACTERS! I kinda liked Cirno before, but this damn game is making me loath her.

/end rant.

And yeah, Cirno is damn slow in this game which is really annoying. In LoT1 she's basically the same thing, but she can actually outspeed many things, so she can multi-target PAR for slower nukes for example. In this game she is just so slow.

Okay, so from what I'm hearing from this, Cirno has essentially been nerfed in LoT2. Why, I do not know, but it appears to be the case.

Personally, there are a few ways to fix this.
1) Do a SPD Build in terms of bonuses and so on. It should remedy the "can't outspeed many things" issue.
2) If her debuffs are an issue, then perhaps a Hexer subclass and it's skillset can help. Boosting the strength of her debuffs, a passive that speeds her up just for being in the class, and getting new debuff spells should help in dealing with her lack of usefulness.

A few questions, though:

1) Is Cirno's Diamond Blizzard still ATK based, or is it composite now? Knowing that about the attack would be kinda important here.
2) I've noticed that raising the elemental affinities in the Magic Library is harder to do(read: expensive) than all other stats. If this is the case, then I would like to ask something. Does the stat growths from leveling up affect how much your stats can raise for each point that you pay for in the Magic Library? Or are those increases static, and go up the same no matter who it is?

[ViciousYukkuri]

A few questions, though:

1) Is Cirno's Diamond Blizzard still ATK based, or is it composite now? Knowing that about the attack would be kinda important here.
2) I've noticed that raising the elemental affinities in the Magic Library is harder to do(read: expensive) than all other stats. If this is the case, then I would like to ask something. Does the stat growths from leveling up affect how much your stats can raise for each point that you pay for in the Magic Library? Or are those increases static, and go up the same no matter who it is?

1) It's ATK based.
2) It's not static across characters; your growth probably affects the amount of increase. I'm assuming the higher the growth, the higher the increase. Example: Youmu gains 10-11 MAG per point, whereas Keine gains 50-51 MAG per point. It is static on the character, though; in my above example, Youmu's MAG would go up 10 per point regardless of level, level bonus or equipment, and Keine would go up 50 per point regardless of level, level bonus, or equipment.

E: This is partially wrong. Level bonus doesn't affect it, but level does. Shoulda figured. Above examples are with Lvl 200+ characters.

[Kirin no Sora]

1) It's ATK based.

Oh, I see. That means that focusing on attack alone would improve on it a bit.

2) It's not static across characters; your growth probably affects the amount of increase. I'm assuming the higher the growth, the higher the increase. Example: Youmu gains 10-11 MAG per point, whereas Keine gains 50-51 MAG per point. It is static on the character, though; in my above example, Youmu's MAG would go up 10 per point regardless of level, level bonus or equipment, and Keine would go up 50 per point regardless of level, level bonus, or equipment.

Then, if I may ask...

How much does Cirno's stats go up per point?

Also, since she has Speed Boost from the get go, would that skill affect the final result? (I mean, as in increases how much each stat goes up, since I presume that it's a percentage based thing...)

[ViciousYukkuri]

How much does Cirno's stats go up per point?

HP: 50
ATK: 43
DEF: 28
MAG: 43
MND: 20
SPD: This stat is an exception to the rule. The higher value from level, level bonuses and equipment, the higher the boost.

I'm checking the Boost Skill thing now...

Having the Boost Skill increases the bonus you get from Viole. Not just for speed, but for every stat.

[jaxter0987]

I'm kind of disappointed with what I just learned. From what I've read in this thread, it seems a good number of you have finished the game already. Yet I've been pretty much the only one writing in the wiki about the bosses and stuff. Y u no help wiki?

And to that end, I certainly could use someone to edit whats already been written so far. My writing isn't exactly praise worthy so it'd certainly be appreciated.

And now some questions:
Around how much BP is needed for

Spoiler:

Okuu

to finish her event towards recruiting

Spoiler:

Yuuka

? I swear I've been using her as much as I've been using

Spoiler:

Nazrin

for getting

Spoiler:

Byakuren

and I still can't clear the event.
What is the FOE on 16F for?
Whats the stone next to the second relay point on 18F supposed to be guarding?

[MysTeariousYukari]

Whats the stone next to the second relay point on 18F supposed to be guarding?

This is a real kicker at first. Nothing. It leads to a warp, which leads to the far right corner of the map, that currently holds nothing at all. I assume it'll be used once we get new content for the game?

Anyone know how I get to the circled area on 18F?

[Kirin no Sora]

HP: 50
ATK: 43
DEF: 28
MAG: 43
MND: 20
SPD: This stat is an exception to the rule. The higher value from level, level bonuses and equipment, the higher the boost.

I'm checking the Boost Skill thing now...

Having the Boost Skill increases the bonus you get from Viole. Not just for speed, but for every stat.

So, I would presume that you need to pour level bonuses in SPD and use the Speed Boost skill to make Cirno fast in some capacity(this is in light of a post on the previous LoT2 thread, where someone displayed that they could make Patchouli relatively quick, so Cirno is not hopeless in the speed department here).

Also, if damage against enemies is a necessity, then one would think that Diamond Blizzard is the only skill that Cirno has that isn't composite, so it shouldn't have too much of an issue in doing damage if one focuses on the ATT Stat via Voile Boosting. And if all else fails, the Monk skill set, along with a maxed out Leaning Iron Mountain(closest thing to a nuke that the subclasses have, attack wise), plus said point setup should make it so that the Ice Fairy can actually hurt people.

Her debuff, however... That requires some thinking. Is the SPD debuff a large amount when it actually takes effect? Because if not, then I was right about Cirno being seriously nerfed, meaning that she'll need the Hexer Subclass skill set to remedy that. If it is, though, then either the RNG hates you or it might be bugged to an extent, and there's nothing that you can do about it, sadly.

[ViciousYukkuri]

Anyone know how I get to the circled area on 18F?

BAM!

I'm kind of disappointed with what I just learned. From what I've read in this thread, it seems a good number of you have finished the game already. Yet I've been pretty much the only one writing in the wiki about the bosses and stuff. Y u no help wiki?

And to that end, I certainly could use someone to edit whats already been written so far. My writing isn't exactly praise worthy so it'd certainly be appreciated.

And now some questions:
Around how much BP is needed for

Spoiler:

Okuu

to finish her event towards recruiting

Spoiler:

Yuuka

? I swear I've been using her as much as I've been using

Spoiler:

Nazrin

for getting

Spoiler:

Byakuren

and I still can't clear the event.
What is the FOE on 16F for?
Whats the stone next to the second relay point on 18F supposed to be guarding?

Hard to help the wiki when your help would just be along the lines of "the guy does this move that hurts". At least for me, that is; I can't read Japanese. I have been fixing little things here and there, though.
The 16F FOE is just an optional post game boss as far as I can tell right now. I've killed it and nothing special happens.

So, I would presume that you need to pour level bonuses in SPD and use the Speed Boost skill to make Cirno fast in some capacity(this is in light of a post on the previous LoT2 thread, where someone displayed that they could make Patchouli relatively quick, so Cirno is not hopeless in the speed department here).

Also, if damage against enemies is a necessity, then one would think that Diamond Blizzard is the only skill that Cirno has that isn't composite, so it shouldn't have too much of an issue in doing damage if one focuses on the ATT Stat via Voile Boosting. And if all else fails, the Monk skill set, along with a maxed out Leaning Iron Mountain(closest thing to a nuke that the subclasses have, attack wise), plus said point setup should make it so that the Ice Fairy can actually hurt people.

Her debuff, however... That requires some thinking. Is the SPD debuff a large amount when it actually takes effect? Because if not, then I was right about Cirno being seriously nerfed, meaning that she'll need the Hexer Subclass skill set to remedy that. If it is, though, then either the RNG hates you or it might be bugged to an extent, and there's nothing that you can do about it, sadly.

The debuff, when it hits for Icicle Fall, is a full 50%. Its just the RNG hating on me mostly. The other stuff will get remedied as the game goes on; I'm still only on 4F. I'm focusing my level up bonuses for Cirno into attack, and Viole-ing her HP, ATK, MAG and SPD.

[jaxter0987]

BAM!

Hard to help the wiki when your help would just be along the lines of "the guy does this move that hurts". At least for me, that is; I can't read Japanese. I have been fixing little things here and there, though.

That's quite literally all I've been doing. For the record, I can't read Japanese as well but you don't need to be able to read anything to understand the bosses behavior.
I've laid down the framework for almost all the bosses. There's just some technical things left like which multi-target attacks are row based and the names of the attacks as well as the bosses themselves, which will come with the translation patch.

How do you get to the Northwest corner in that picture? I must have missed going into a teleporter at some point...

[ViciousYukkuri]

How do you get to the Northwest corner in that picture? I must have missed going into a teleporter at some point...

BAM AGAIN!! Marked both corners just to be safe.

[jaxter0987]

BAM AGAIN!! Marked both corners just to be safe.

Thanks for that. I'm glad I got a second TP - 8, MP + 5, MP Recovery + 1 item from that. Since you don't lose TP from doing Form Changes, having no TP for a boss fight means nothing.

[woghddla]

Anyone know of a good place to farm up FOEs?

[RegalStar]

Which characters are priorities for subclass learning?

[woghddla]

Which characters are priorities for subclass learning?

From what I've seen, anyone with excess skill points or anyone who needs buffs in certain stats are good for subclasses.
The subclasses can be redistributed like level up bonuses, so feel free to experiment

[ViciousYukkuri]

Anyone know of a good place to farm up FOEs?

Farming FOEs is a bitch because they only respawn if you enter the dungeon...12 times? 13 times? Somewhere around there. I recommend going to a floor, starting with 2F, killing the FOE, leave, go to the next floor, rinse and repeat until you get through all the floors. Then start over at 2F.

Which characters are priorities for subclass learning?

Depends on you. Who are you considering, for advice's sake?
Sub-classes may make a difference, but its not so huge that its a big deal who goes into what when. Plus, if you don't like what you subclass into or who you subclass, you can reset and get your Stone back for free.

[RegalStar]

Sub-classes may make a difference, but its not so huge that its a big deal who goes into what when. Plus, if you don't like what you subclass into or who you subclass, you can reset and get your Stone back for free.

Oh, I can reset it for free? Well that makes things simpler then. I thought it was something that you'd need a tome of reincarnation to get back.

[jaxter0987]

Sub-classes may make a difference, but its not so huge that its a big deal who goes into what when. Plus, if you don't like what you subclass into or who you subclass, you can reset and get your Stone back for free.

That's a relief. I was worried that I'd have to wait til the game's translated to make a completely informed decision but I guess I can experiment around then.

[Krimmydoodle]

Farming FOEs is a bitch because they only respawn if you enter the dungeon...12 times? 13 times? Somewhere around there.

14.  I think of it as "two weeks", and each entry into the dungeon is "one day".

[Sahgren]

I thought you needed a Tome of Reincarnation to regain the Stone used for sub-classes. You only get level up bonuses back for free at Patchy's.

[ViciousYukkuri]

Nope, you get the stone back for free, as seen here.

I have to laugh at the random level drop it shows, but doesn't give. I also don't know why it only shows getting back so many skill points and level up bonus. You get them all back, just it displays the wrong numbers for some reason.

[RegalStar]

The game shows a lot of buggy stuff. Reimu shows a decrease in MND whenever I do basically anything that doesn't increase it, like equipping anything, using a level up bonus on some other stat, et cetera.

[Serela]

I have to laugh at the random level drop it shows, but doesn't give.

And I'm going to laugh when a patch comes and makes that actually happen :V

Of course, I also haven't played the game, so I haven't gotten to experience the joy of infinite Resting

[MysTeariousYukari]

The game shows a lot of buggy stuff. Reimu shows a decrease in MND whenever I do basically anything that doesn't increase it, like equipping anything, using a level up bonus on some other stat, et cetera.

I see this on a lot of characters, as well as Speed stat, and even Evade on characters with only 1 point. The first two I can maybe explain, every character I see it on has had those stats boosted by Gems at the Hakurei Shrine.

[CloverNaght]

Chiruno rant

I'd actually blame her White Album, why would they give someone that really fragile a def+mnd buff? This is only somewhat useful if you doing pure team 9 run (that means the other 8 characters are lv 1 fillers or not in party at all)
The fact that all the passive skills gives major boost to many characters (i.e Cooling Down+Maintenance Nitori, Aya 20k timebar etc) hurts her while Cirno passive skills not that impressive

[RegalStar]

And I'm going to laugh when a patch comes and makes that actually happen :V

Of course, I also haven't played the game, so I haven't gotten to experience the joy of infinite Resting

It may be a joy for beating bosses, but spending ten minutes to set up a party before anything significant isn't very joyful at all.

[Starxsword]

The debuff, when it hits for Icicle Fall, is a full 50%. Its just the RNG hating on me mostly. The other stuff will get remedied as the game goes on; I'm still only on 4F. I'm focusing my level up bonuses for Cirno into attack, and Viole-ing her HP, ATK, MAG and SPD.

From what I see the description for Cirno's skills, she seems like you should be using her for the sole purpose of debuffing. Maybe try speed build Cirno, so you can cast more often and trigger the auto debuff passive more often.

[Cogwheel]

From what I've seen, anyone with excess skill points or anyone who needs buffs in certain stats are good for subclasses.
The subclasses can be redistributed like level up bonuses, so feel free to experiment

I can't really recommend Healer Komachi enough. Gives her something to do besides Avici as a tank, and even more percentile regeneration.

On Cirno, you're half-right. Diamond Blizzard is purely ATK-based. I think that's the one, anyway. Her second attack skill? The other two, however, including Icicle Fall, are hybrid direct attacks. This means they use both ATK and MAG, but check against DEF. Hope that helps.

[Fishin]

Strongly agree @ Medic Komachi, and the healing is actually fairly substantial unlike Rinnosuke's or Meiling's or whatever.  Komachi is extremely good in this game, I wouldn't hesitate to put her in my top 5. 

She's more useless than

Spoiler:

Chen?

O_O OK maybe, maybe not. Both of them aren't really that useful, especially after you recruit

Spoiler:

Ran

.

Honestly I think Chen is pretty vastly improved in this game.  In the last one my beef with her was that she could never survive anything, but unlike a squishy one-shot nuke like say, Suwako, she definitely needed to stay in for some time to do real damage and the later you got the less enemies were vulnerable to paralysis/debuffs.  Both Accelerate and especially Instant Attack cut down on the relative time it takes for her to do her combo so she's much less of a risk to use.  Evasion working now is nice too and the Gambler subclass seems like it would be fantastic on her.

Also yeah Cirno is pretty useless after the first couple floors you get her but that's about the same way it was in the first game, really.

[Xarizzar]

I never said Chen wasn't improved. I just tried to mean that Cirno was at least of some use to me. As much as Chen. Definitely, Chen is improved. However, for me it's not really the best character. Maybe because I never used her too seriously. But still, she can lose a bit too much if she gets hit.

As for Komachi, yes. In this game she is definitely one of the most useful characters, up until now. I don't know what will happen in future patches, but she definitely is very useful, and I don't regret me using her for every battle the moment I got her.

[Cogwheel]

Where are people finding the Gambler and Ability subclasses anyway? Or the last two Awakening Stones, for that matter?