Iku Quest Sedem: A Z-Machine Adventure

[Hello Purvis]

>Do we know whether they need to eat?
>Or sleep?
>They don't actually need to breathe, correct?

>You don't know. You're pretty sure they can eat, given what you've seen of the Prismrivers, and this one has proven they can drink.
>You aren't sure if they need to sleep. She seemed to hint they didn't.
>You don't think so; she certainly wasn't breathing when you zapped her yesterday.

[Suwako Moriya]

I'm pretty much entirely against letting the Brock Inspector take down Reimu with our help, because Reimu was willing to give us the benefit of the doubt last night to a small degree. With Marisa it's far more tempting, but I think it'll be far more effective to humiliate her - go out and solve the problem ourselves, convert the source to the side of "good", then gladly rub it in her face while we talk about all the innocent people she beat up and calling into question her talent and status of Gensokyo Problem Solver, because she only went around making things worse by attacking all the wrong people.

There has to be something the Brock Inspector needs - but I highly doubt she's going to tell us. She has the nasty advantage of being a poltergeist and thus not needing food or health recovery. She may still get bored from time to time, but eh, that's a real stretch as a "need". We [i[could[/i] point out that humans (and youkai, to a lesser degree) need all the things we've gone over to survive, but that will likely be met with a "not my problem".

At this point I may actually be willing to ask her about herself, because the worst she's going to do is tell us to sod off.

[Suwako Moriya]

> "I'm doing a lot more learning about poltergeist biology than anything else, to be honest. How do you know all this about yourself when you didn't even know how you came to be? That's a somewhat odd disconnect."

[Hello Purvis]

> "I'm doing a lot more learning about poltergeist biology than anything else, to be honest. How do you know all this about yourself when you didn't even know how you came to be? That's a somewhat odd disconnect."

>"How did animals know how to deal with being hungry?" she asks."I just know."

>_

[Suwako Moriya]

> "I always figured they'd pick it up from their parents."

[Suwako Moriya]

...Come to think of it, doesn't everything need the social interaction of its parents to even be born? >_>

[Suwako Moriya]

Hey Draco your connection sucks

> How do youkai come to be if they do not evolve from humans or animals?

[DracoOmega]

Yeah, I'm also not at all inclined to arrange a fight between Marisa/Reimu and the spectre so that we can intervene with force to save her. Even in Marisa's case, we'd essentially be trying to unleash someone against her who would intend very serious harm. Marisa's been a hard-headed jerk for most of this quest, but even that doesn't mean she deserves to have her shadow stolen or be shadow-swallowed, and I would expect the spectre to try one or the other, if she could. And if Marisa is occupied with us, there's even a chance she could succeed. There's a good chance she doesn't even know the spectre's capabilities, unless Reimu has spoken with her since meeting Tenshi, making her all the more vulnerable. Sure, we may also be able to intervene to stop this, but that may potentially require using force against the spectre herself, more than erasing any potential gains.

Essentially, even if we didn't care about being a jerk to set the thing up in the first place, there's plenty of things that could make it end quite badly.

I also wonder how much good it would accomplish, even if it was executed perfectly. Certainly, we could point out that she would have lost if not for our help. She may or may not believe that (she's certainly been plenty confident about her abilities, even when not justified). And even if she does accept that, and is even grateful (after a fashion), it's a reasonable argument that assisting against a mutual enemy isn't really exposing oneself. At least not any more than drinking with Suika was. Neither party needed to tell the other anything, or share anything, other than each others physical presence for a short time.


In terms of other options, I've been pondering the 'need' concept for a while now, and I'm afraid I'm still drawing a blank. My gut says we're not suppose to interpret it in the most obvious way, but this is rather useless in the absence of any actual ideas of what other way we're supposed to be interpreting it. I wish I had something more useful to say.

[DracoOmega]

Hey Draco your connection sucks

Hey, I shall have you know that I am at last free from that abomination of misanthropic technology, and back to a perfectly functioning one.

[Hello Purvis]

> "I always figured they'd pick it up from their parents."

>"They just seem to know what to do," she says.

> How do youkai come to be if they do not evolve from humans or animals?

>There's probably as many ways as there are kinds of youkai. You know that some come from objects left forgotten in a particularly poignant way. Others are born as any species would be. Some might just manifest out of the aether.

>_

[Suwako Moriya]

> How do The Dragon and The Yama compare on the grand bureaucratic scale?
> "That does make me think, though. Even though the case of poltergeists is fairly unusual, surely you must realize the overwhelming need for procreation for most people to even exist in the first place."

[Hello Purvis]

> How do The Dragon and The Yama compare on the grand bureaucratic scale?
> "That does make me think, though. Even though the case of poltergeists is fairly unusual, surely you must realize the overwhelming need for procreation for most people to even exist in the first place."

>The Dragon definitely superior. But the Yama is quite highly ranked.
>"Doesn't matter," says the Poltergeist.

>_

[DracoOmega]

>"It doesn't? All peoples that procreate sexually need to expose themselves to each other in a most intimate of ways to even exist. If all of them suddenly accepted that exposing themselves was abominable, and withdrew from each other, what would happen? In a single generation, they would all be dead: there would be no more of them."

[Hello Purvis]

>"It doesn't? All peoples that procreate sexually need to expose themselves to each other in a most intimate of ways to even exist. If all of them suddenly accepted that exposing themselves was abominable, and withdrew from each other, what would happen? In a single generation, they would all be dead: there would be no more of them."

>"Wouldn't be exactly the same if Bhava-Agra got what it wanted?" says the poltergeist.

>_

[DracoOmega]

>"I'm not sure I understand what you mean."

[Hello Purvis]

>"I'm not sure I understand what you mean."

>"I've read what you people do," she says. "The whole enlightenment thing. It's not any different."

>_

[DracoOmega]

>It was previously stated that while sex is very rare in Bhava-Agra, it is not altogether absent. Do we know if any children have ever been born to celestials, after they became such?

[Hello Purvis]

>It was previously stated that while sex is very rare in Bhava-Agra, it is not altogether absent. Do we know if any children have ever been born to celestials, after they became such?

>You know of no instances of children being born between celestials.

>_

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Just being weird, but couldn't the poltergeist be considered to be enlightened in a way?
She doesn't really need anything and isn't really attached to anything and some of the celestials live as hermits.
So we could offer her a home in Bhava Agra, I mean she could be as isolated as she wanted there if that's what she really wants.
I'm crazy and this should probably be ignored.

[Sophilia]

You've hit all the reasons why I thought it was not an acceptable idea except one, and added a few of your own as well.  The other reason I thought of is - it is very likely that, whether due to ignorance or her own belief system, the spectre sees no reason to follow the spell card rules.  In turn, she would not be protected by them.  If we were to be evil and set out to cause a fight, the incident squad would have license to kill.  And that is probably the worst possible outcome for everyone.

Yet...I still have no better idea that would result in her needing to expose herself to another.

So right now, we should just let her be, and trust in time and the Dragon.  There will be a need, and when she realizes its existence and what it is, we will be able to respond in a much more effective way.  And since just following her around waiting for whatever need it is to express itself would probably be counterproductive, why not go settle accounts with Remi?

Told you it was meta as hell.

[DracoOmega]

Just being weird, but couldn't the poltergeist be considered to be enlightened in a way?
She doesn't really need anything and isn't really attached to anything and some of the celestials live as hermits.
So we could offer her a home in Bhava Agra, I mean she could be as isolated as she wanted there if that's what she really wants.
I'm crazy and this should probably be ignored.

I'm pretty sure enlightenment is also supposed to include being free from anger, hate, violence and all similarly negative things, and I think it's safe to say that the spectre is a very, very long way away from that, unless something else gives. To be honest, I would say that her level of enlightenment is more suited to Makai than anything.

You've hit all the reasons why I thought it was not an acceptable idea except one, and added a few of your own as well.  The other reason I thought of is - it is very likely that, whether due to ignorance or her own belief system, the spectre sees no reason to follow the spell card rules.  In turn, she would not be protected by them.  If we were to be evil and set out to cause a fight, the incident squad would have license to kill.  And that is probably the worst possible outcome for everyone.

Yet...I still have no better idea that would result in her needing to expose herself to another.

So right now, we should just let her be, and trust in time and the Dragon.  There will be a need, and when she realizes its existence and what it is, we will be able to respond in a much more effective way.  And since just following her around waiting for whatever need it is to express itself would probably be counterproductive, why not go settle accounts with Remi?

Told you it was meta as hell.

I don't think The Dragon would have given us the hint that it did unless there was something we could do with it in our current context. I think we just need to figure out what that is.

As for settling accounts with Remilia, I think many of those will settle themselves when the islands get restored, and she becomes unable to even find her new territories. If she still refuses to acknowledge that there was no invasion, and refuses to release them (and they can't simply slip away on their own to where she can't find them) then we may have a confrontation on our hands. Until that point, I think they're not likely being too terribly mistreated, and provoking a fight with Remilia herself is probably not likely to be too effective. Tenshi apparently doesn't even care to fight over the issue at all. We may be able to rope her in, regardless, but even if we do, it's a non-trivial battle we would be instigating. And we would likely be resolving this issue the unnecessarily hard way, when there is unlikely to be much short-term gain from it.

Also keep in mind that if we leave the spectre now, we may have a very hard time finding her again. Not much else that we could do is either evasive or time-sensitive.


>"It is true that celestials do not procreate, but attaining enlightenment is a step towards transcending mortality, not towards death. We believe that life is precious, and would never seek to end that."

[Hello Purvis]

>"It is true that celestials do not procreate, but attaining enlightenment is a step towards transcending mortality, not towards death. We believe that life is precious, and would never seek to end that."

>"But it's also exactly what you're doing when you succeed," she says. "So it's the same result, just debasing yourself in the process."

>_

[DracoOmega]

>Celestials must regularly defeat shinigami sent to collect their souls, correct?
>Is it uncommon for a shinigami to actually succeed?
>If they did succeed, would it be expected for the soul to reincarnate on a lower level of being? Say, as a normal human again, perhaps?

[Hello Purvis]

>Celestials must regularly defeat shinigami sent to collect their souls, correct?
>Is it uncommon for a shinigami to actually succeed?
>If they did succeed, would it be expected for the soul to reincarnate on a lower level of being? Say, as a normal human again, perhaps?

>Yes. You suspect it will be a real problem if things don't improve shortly.
>They usually do not succeed.
>You believe so.

>_

[DracoOmega]

>But they do succeed often enough to be more than a freak rarity?
>A real problem in what sense? In that the shinigami would have easier access to Bhava-Agra at its current location?

[Hello Purvis]

>But they do succeed often enough to be more than a freak rarity?
>A real problem in what sense? In that the shinigami would have easier access to Bhava-Agra at its current location?

>It's uncommon, but it happens.
>A real problem given injury and possible food shortages. Distance isn't an issue for a Shinigami; they can go wherever they are needed.

>_

[DracoOmega]

>"It is not the same. To be enlightened is to live on. Consider two scenarios: if all of those peoples ascended to Bhava-Agra, and if all of them isolated themselves from each other for the rest of their lives. If you were to look at both of these scenarios after much time had passed, the first would still be full of life and vibrant communities, and the second would be empty; they would all be dead and there would be no one left. Exposure is absolutely vital for the survival of entire races."

[Hello Purvis]

>"It is not the same. To be enlightened is to live on. Consider two scenarios: if all of those peoples ascended to Bhava-Agra, and if all of them isolated themselves from each other for the rest of their lives. If you were to look at both of these scenarios after much time had passed, the first would still be full of life and vibrant communities, and the second would be empty; they would all be dead and there would be no one left. Exposure is absolutely vital for the survival of entire races."

>"So your way is slower," she says.

>_

[DracoOmega]

>"The ultimate pinnacle of enlightenment is escape from the cycle of life and death entirely. It is not an end to existence."

[Hello Purvis]

>"The ultimate pinnacle of enlightenment is escape from the cycle of life and death entirely. It is not an end to existence."

>"The difference is inconsequential, and pointless," says the Poltergeist. "Is this all you have to say?"