Draft Mafia - Game Over

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

out me down

[Sky_Paladin]

I think posting the drafting order was a mistake, period.  We know that players near the top of the list could probably pick any role that they wanted. 

MOST LIKELY TO BE ROLED TOWN
1.) CF7
2.) Mitsuki
3.) Zakeri
4.) Dan
5.) Dormio
6.) Sky Paladin
7.) Rawr
8/9.) Raikaria/Bard
LEAST LIKELY TO BE ROLED TOWN

Can we assume town only picked town roles?  Can we assume scum only picked scum roles? 

We can probably assume that SB would have played off a tie even if both Raikaria/Bard were town/scum, since to do otherwise would have players asking "Why aren't Raikaria/Bard rerolling?" when their number pick was revealed.  So I think it's inconclusive. 

Raikaria's hasty vote:  I want to hear more about this. 

RPS Shenanigans delayed RVS Shenanigans so he gets my RVS. Also 3rd on the wagon ZOMG.

If this was the reason for your vote, you should have voted Bard, since Dan was not involved in RPS shenanigans. 

Why the Dan vote?

[Mitsuki]

lol Sky Paladin, alignments were assigned before roles were chosen
Sky Paladin is probably town since scum would know they were scum beforehand, scum players were supposed to be able to comunicate while choosing their role. I don't think he'd fake that logic as scum, it's the kind of thing that I don't see many people coming up with. I think there's something I'm not getting in his logic though, but the post is townie as fuck anyways so

another step closer to CF7 + Dormio scumteam, now I just have to believe

[SB]

Votecount 1.1
Dormio (3): CF7, Mitsuki, Bard (L-2)
CF7 (1): Dormio
Mitsuki (1): ActionDan
Bard (1): Raikaria

Not Voting (3): Dr Rawr, Zakeri, Sky Paladin

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. You have 67.5 hours left in the phase.

[WHMZakeri]

Raikaria and Bard are the scumteam.
They threw away their role chances so that we would never consider lynching both of them together.

##Vote: Bardiche

[ActionDan]

I don't think he'd fake that logic as scum, it's the kind of thing that I don't see many people coming up with. I think there's something I'm not getting in his logic though, but the post is townie as fuck anyways so

I do tbh and I don't like the post.

I do find your post about townie though.

Sooo

##unvote
##Vote Sky Paladin 

[CF7]

Hum. Not sure what to make out of this so far.

Raikaria's hasty vote:  I want to hear more about this. 
If this was the reason for your vote, you should have voted Bard, since Dan was not involved in RPS shenanigans. 

Why the Dan vote?

Raikaria voted Bard actually. Not idea how you confused the two.

another step closer to CF7 + Dormio scumteam, now I just have to believe

Let me tell you a secret. We are!

[WHMZakeri]

Everything posted between this and my last post has only helped confirm my suspicions.

Considering neither Bard nor Rai had the chance to post anything, this comment says everything and nothing at the same time.

[Raikaria]

Typos please. O is right next to P.

I think posting the drafting order was a mistake, period.  We know that players near the top of the list could probably pick any role that they wanted. 

MOST LIKELY TO BE ROLED TOWN
1.) CF7
2.) Mitsuki
3.) Zakeri
4.) Dan
5.) Dormio
6.) Sky Paladin
7.) Rawr
8/9.) Raikaria/Bard
LEAST LIKELY TO BE ROLED TOWN

Can we assume town only picked town roles?  Can we assume scum only picked scum roles? 

We can probably assume that SB would have played off a tie even if both Raikaria/Bard were town/scum, since to do otherwise would have players asking "Why aren't Raikaria/Bard rerolling?" when their number pick was revealed.  So I think it's inconclusive. 

Raikaria's hasty vote:  I want to hear more about this. 
If this was the reason for your vote, you should have voted Bard, since Dan was not involved in RPS shenanigans. 

Why the Dan vote?

Wait what.

#Vote Bard

RPS Shenanigans delayed RVS Shenanigans so he gets my RVS. Also 3rd on the wagon ZOMG.

Good observation.

And yeah SB has made a slight booboo in the handling of the tie. But I'm not gonna complain about a mistake that is pro-town.

Where do I vote Dan?

And also nice list with nothing backing it up. What makes you so unlikely to have rolled town? What makes you know who rolled town? What makes me and Bard least likely to be town?

#Unvote
#Vote: Sky Paladin

Voting me for completely false reasons and making a fancy list with no evident logic. Why would he put himself as 6th least likely to be town, for one?

[Raikaria]

Oh wait he doesn't vote me, so let's just change that 'voting me' to 'spouting nonsense'.

[SB]

Votecount 1.2
Dormio (3): CF7, Mitsuki, Bard (L-2)
Sky Paladin (2): ActionDan, Raikaria
CF7 (1): Dormio
Bard (1): Zakeri

Not Voting (2): Dr Rawr, Sky Paladin

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. You have 59.5 hours left in the phase.

[Sky_Paladin]

I thought you voted Dan.  It's probably the same way you thought I voted you. 

##vote Mitsuki

Mitsuki's post after mine is an empty content post.  Worse, it attempts to present content. 

What she could have commented on from my post: 
The list I drafted up. 
Whether or not town could have picked scum roles (and remain town aligned). 
More on Raikaria/Bard. 
Me asking Raikaria to further address his post. 

What Mitsuki commented on:
Alignments were assigned before drafting -> I said this. 

This

scum players were supposed to be able to comunicate while choosing their role.

There's no mention or even implication of this in the rules.  How did you come to this conclusion? 

I don't think he'd fake that logic as scum, it's the kind of thing that I don't see many people coming up with.

"I agree with his logic."

I think there's something I'm not getting in his logic though

"But I don't understand it".  So why agree with it? 

I also inherently dislike an arbitrary town clear based on my questioning of Raikaria that was, apparently, flawed. 

[Sky_Paladin]

Raikaria

And also nice list with nothing backing it up. What makes you so unlikely to have rolled town? What makes you know who rolled town? What makes me and Bard least likely to be town?

Do you understand the purpose of 'draft mafia' is that certain players get to pick first.  That means the players who picked first, and were announced to be first, are likely to have town power roles. 

Voting me for completely false reasons and making a fancy list with no evident logic. Why would he put himself as 6th least likely to be town, for one?

There are valid reasons.  Perhaps you could explain how I am wrong? 

[CF7]

Don't really like Raikaria's post where he votes for Sky_P. Espescially his comment after that, where he notices that Sky_P didn't really vote for him.
Speaking of. Despite all the rolespec, Sky_P shows real effort and looks town to me.
Zak said that nothing happenned, and that's it.

Pretty much anyone else is not here, so not much to say.

I'll leave my vote on Dormio for the moment.

[Mitsuki]

What Mitsuki commented on:
Alignments were assigned before drafting -> I said this.

No, I thought you said the opposite. Still getting town vibes from that post and the one where he votes me.
Also I posted to say that I'm townreading you, if that's an empty post then lol

"I agree with his logic."

I wasn't saying I agree with your logic, I was saying that I thought it came from town.

So basically: I thought SkyPal was townie for not knowing that scum could communicate during pregame (not a relevant point anymore). He's still townie because gut.

There's no mention or even implication of this in the rules.  How did you come to this conclusion?

It's written here, duh. Let me quote the exact fragment:

The mafia may converse pregame while making their choices.

[Mitsuki]

CF7 why are you leaving your vote on Dormio if it's a RVS vote and you suspect Raikaria?

[CF7]

CF7 why are you leaving your vote on Dormio if it's a RVS vote and you suspect Raikaria?

He's sitting at L-2. Apparently not really bothered by it. Maybe that actually will motivate him enough to post here.

[Mitsuki]

God damn it apparently I missed a bunch of posts because Vhaltz checked them through my account and I didn't see them marked as "new"

I'm not sure what I think of Raikaria's post myself, I've seen townies being super reactionary and posting bad logic and thought they were scum for that before.
Raikaria's post is bad logic because bad logic (Raikaria's interpretation of SkyPal's logic in this case) =/= scum by the way.
The only thing I'm doubting about is the tone, but I guess I'll have to check Raikaria's town meta to see if he posts like that as town as well.

Let me tell you a secret. We are!

Cool bro
##unvote
##vote: CF7

Actually I'm semi-serious about CF7 and Dormio being buddies, since CF7 is being very insistant on Dormio being scum for the laughs, and I could see him doing that to his scumbuddy since claiming you're scum with your buddy while everyone else ignores it is cool in everyone's eyes. Yes, I've seen that happen before.
I don't see that as strong logic anyways since I could see CF7 doing that as town (or scum with someone else) as well, but it seems less likely.
The fact that he prefers to keep his RVS vote to "motivate" Dormio to post is more of the same. In the other hand I don't like how it's a priority to motivate one of the many players who haven't gotten much of an opportunity to post instead of voting for a scumread. It's ED1, why would you care about Dormio's lack of posts? Also people don't get motivated to post for RVS votes by the way.

If you're wondering I do find CF7 scummy individually for what I said.

[Bardiche]

##Unvote
##Vote: Sky Paladin

I summarily dislike his Mitsuki vote post. I dislike it because he builds a strawman ("this is what Mitsuki could have done, BUT THEN DIDN'T!"), misrepresents Mitsuki's post, and quips about disliking Mitsuki's Town clear. That last one admittedly isn't very strong, but it feels like such a bogus reason to throw on at the end that it offends my sensibilities. I dislike his earlier post quipping about likelihood of having a role, because role discussion really isn't relevant right now and it feels forced to introduce it as a topic. Looks like contributing, is really just throwing up smoke and mirrors to me.

Mitsuki's focus on a CF7/Dormio scumteam... if that's serious, I have serious issues with your priorities. I also don't really like Mitsuki first presenting an argument about CF7/Dormio being an actual thing and then taking it out themselves. Why disarm your own arguments for the guy you're voting for? That doesn't make any sense, unless you don't even believe in your own reasons and want to pre-empt people. Feel free to give me reasons on why it does make sense.

I think Sky Paladin tugs stronger as scum, but having eyes on Mitsuki is also important.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

>Ignoring the rest of the game to prod someone less than 24 hours into the start of the game.
That's some quality scumhunting right there.
So, question for CF7.
What makes me doing nothing worse than Zak, who you explicitely mentioned, or others doing nothing?
Also, I really don't like how you're all like "Well Raikaria looks scummy to me but I don't want to vote him and will instead prod someone less than 12 hours into the game". (Less than 12 hours passed between CF7's first post with opinions and the game starting)

I should read the rest of the posts or something.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Not that there's all that much to read apparently?
Sky Palladium is meh but I wouldn't vote for him.
I dislike Raikaria's reaction to Sky Palladium. But then I don't like anything Raikaria does most of the time anyway so I guess I'm just going to wait and see on this one. I mean straight up it looks like he's got a guilty conscience and is reacting to a bullshit "most likely to be scum" thing. But it's like I guess this is the sort of thing that I'd expect Raikaria to do most of the time or something.
Though, my gut feeling tells me that it's worse than what Raikaria usually does so basically I've got my eyes on you or something.
Anyway, that's enough rambling about that.
Mitsuki already pushing for scumteams is kind of hilarious. Just putting that out there.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

I also really dislike Mitsuki going out of her way to just say that she thinks that Dan is town really early into the game.
Like why would you even do that? To build fake rep? I don't get it and therefore don't like it.

[Raikaria]

Am I the only one to have been unable to get online all afternoon?

Anyway, while I agree with what Bard says about Sky's Mituski case; I also think this part holds water:

There's no mention or even implication of this in the rules.  How did you come to this conclusion? 

Although I did explain how your reasons were wrong, like saying I was voting Dan when I didn't do so and didn't even talk about him.

Despite this bugbear, following content is good enough in general that I feel like I should #Unvote.

I don't think Sky is scum now, but I also have no clue who is the scums now. However I do feel the need to address this:

Raikaria
Do you understand the purpose of 'draft mafia' is that certain players get to pick first.  That means the players who picked first, and were announced to be first, are likely to have town power roles. 

Scum is perfectly capable of attempting to take a power role to deny it from town. In fact, if you look at the priority list:

-Strongman
-Roleblocker
-Doctor
-Factional Kill
-Neighbourizer
-Roleclop
-Tracker

The first two are roles scum really benefit from. Assumeing that high priority is a town power role is flawed. In fact it might be better to assume that the first two positions: CF7 and Mitsuki, are very suspicious because the two higher priority roles are very pro-scum.

The other suspect roles would be Factional Kill and Rolecop; which if we're using drafting order would be Dan and... well... Sky.

[Raikaria]

Basically wiriting off Mitsuki and CF7 as most likely to be Town is stupid because the 2 highest priority roles are pro-scum.

[ActionDan]

I wasn't able to get on earlier either.  Factional kill isn't actually a role you can draft or else town would win this game every time.

I don't have a problem with Mitsuki at all.  Neither do I find Sky's or Bard's or anyone else's complaints about her compelling after review.

I agree with Bard's first paragraph, basically. 

I'm amused at everyone else.  But not thrilled. 

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

I'm just going to put it out there that I'm pretty sure that factional kill is an innate scum ability.

Warning - while you were reading a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.

Go away Dan.

[ActionDan]

Basically wiriting off Mitsuki and CF7 as most likely to be Town is stupid because the 2 highest priority roles are pro-scum.

One other thing concerning this:  Sky is referring to traditional town roles (like doctor / neighborizer / tracker )  I believe not to who is town.  It's confusing because he barely spells it out.

[Raikaria]

I'm just going to put it out there that I'm pretty sure that factional kill is an innate scum ability.

Warning - while you were reading a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.

Go away Dan.

I was under the impression that 'Factional Kill' is Vig.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Also holy shit Raikaria's logic makes me want to vote him.
##Unvote
##Vote Raikaria
So, like, according to Raikaria: Sky Palladium is bad and scummy because he basically said that people who rolled lower priorities are more likely to be scummy.
Raikaria kind of flipped out with regards to this since he was at the bottom of Sky Palladium's list.
Later, Raikaria says the exact same thing as Sky Palladium, except that the people who rolled higher priorities are more likely to be scummy.
Like, what the fuck is this shit?
Raikaria's whole line of logic is bullshit. It's lazy and something that I could see scum getting behind because it lets them build suspicion on someone for no good reason at all.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

I was under the impression that 'Factional Kill' is Vig.

The roles in this game are:
Tracker
Rolecop
Doctor
Roleblocker
Neighbourizer
Jack of all Trades (Strongman/Ninja)