SCP Containment Breach Mafia - Game Over

[Refa]

Don't really see why you can't comment on the rest of my wall?  The fact that I haven't played with them means that it will less meta in it and that's about it, really.  If one of my points doesn't jive with someone's meta (e.g. Action Dan's scum meta is to only vote people on Tuesdays) then you should like point it out (or any other issues really).

[Mitsuki]

Vhaltz should stop posting because I want to sleep Votecount (3)

Refa (2): ActionDan, Vhaltz
Vhaltz (1): Raikaria
Raitaki/Dorian (2): BT, Refa
SB (1): Raitaki/Dorian
Raikaria (1): SB
BT (1): NNR

Not voting: no one!
You have 36 hours left in this phase!

[Raitaki]

Raitaki's explanation for his reaction to ActionDan(TheMan's) vote is fine, but his response to Raikiri (I'm going to get these names mixed up with each other at one point in this game guaranteed) is kind of bad.  Where does Raikiri WIFOM?  I'm assuming you're talking about him saying his case was bad, but I don't see how that's WIFOMy at all.  Also considering your issues with Raikiri, your case on SB comes across as a backpedal of sorts.  Keep in mind that you agree with SB (you complain about WIFOM and SB complains about Raikiri admitting his case were bad, but I don't see how these are different at all considering the only time Raikiri could've "WIFOMed" was when he claimed his case was bad) yet are complaining about how he's twisting Raikiri's words?  Somehow?  Also I really don't like how you're already throwing out buzz words like "misrep" this early on. Why is SB forcing a case as opposed to just having a weaker case because RVS?

Well WIFOM might have been the wrong word, I guess I meant like too much speculation on something that could have a bunch of different explanations for it? He took "SB and I were wagoning Refa as a joke" too seriously while it could have easily and likely been construed as "I was joking and I assume SB was, too".

Also, the key thing here is that I didn't think Raikaria making that case was necessarily. People on this site have tried stupid things/grasped straws to get the game out off RVS before, so doing something like that doesn't make Raikaria scum. What I saw SB doing, however, was making it look like Raikaria was intentionally making a bad case to look like he was scumhunting then fall back with the excuse "I was getting discussion started lol". And even if SB thought the case was scummy, he could have voted Raikaria when the latter made the case, though he didn't do that but instead took another post Raikaria made afterwards and used it to weave something out of nothing so

Raikaria never said his case was bad, by the way.

[Vhaltz]

You dropped the Dan vote in like two hours lol.  Why make the vote in the first place if you knew he wasn't going to be around?  Why not just vote me then? 

Because I somehow didn't expect people ruining my reaction tests forever when it always happens. I could've like, not posted literally anything as a response and waited until Dan came back to see what his reaction was, but the pressure by that vote was small enough that I don't really care and being productive is better anyway.

Don't really see why you can't comment on the rest of my wall?  The fact that I haven't played with them means that it will less meta in it and that's about it, really.  If one of my points doesn't jive with someone's meta (e.g. Action Dan's scum meta is to only vote people on Tuesdays) then you should like point it out (or any other issues really).

I wanted to say "because I found it uninteresting and hard to follow, it's late so I want to go to bed and look at it tomorrow" but I guess I might as well Actually Read It.
tbh I don't know much about Raitaki's meta in particular. I only played one game with him where he was scum and he was extremely tunnely there but that's about it. I'm not particularly fond of calling people out for using buzzwords since it's an easy case (everybody uses mafia buzzwords that's what they're there for) but the rest of your concerns with his post are legit I guess.

cut by Raitaki, going to bed. I have to commute for 5+ hours tomorrow and will reevaluate stuff when I get back I guess.

[ActionDan]

woah walls.  I guess I'll read them.  sometime.

[NekoNekoRex]

NNR did you read Raikaria's case because I don't think you read Raikaria's case.

The post I wrote is based on the impression I got after I read through the thread a couple times.

[NekoNekoRex]

Specifically I thought Raikaria misinterpreted the scumslip "SB and I" as referring to what Raikaria thinks it was (a slip by two scumbuddies) as the pair of them being 'in' on the meta related to the jokevotes Raikaria was complaining about eariler.

[SB]

Dorian has something to chip in:
Firstly, how did the "clear" post where "Raikaria basically says)ry" require Dan's response to be clear that it was admitting a bad case? And secondly, Dan implied that either he couldn't stomach his pea soup or Raikaria's case was bad, yes, but how does this have anything to do with you seeing Raikaria admitting his case was bad?

I don't get how the first part is relevant here? Considering that they were the only posts between Raikaria's case and his follow up, it's pretty clear that one of them sparked the response.

Wait what? I think my case is better than any other case. It's the best I could come up with at that point. My response to other people thinking my case was bad is basically 'Well at least I'm making cases guys'.

I mean it's all well saying 'your case is bad' but at least make a case yourself. Of course it may not be the world's best case. It's a tiny thing I nitpicked from RVS. But it's more than anyone else was putting on the table.

"You guys are all worse" isn't really a good defense. I never even called you scummy for the case itself either, it's your reactions to your case being called out that's scummy.

Although; my implication is that you are scum as well SB; so I guess that basically falls into a OMGUS vote from you. Let's vote the only guy attempting to actually make a case!

"I THINK YOU ARE SCUM SO YOUR VOTE ON ME IS OMGUS"
Are you actually serious about this? What. Just because you were attempting to make a case doesn't make you above suspicion, and your constant defensiveness based around this fact is really bad imo.

I'm not really fond of NNR either. Why is BT worse than Dan? If you think that there are misunderstandings messing with the game right now, why are you not trying to explain them instead of just pointing out that they're there?

Gonna finish this up in a little while.

[Raikaria]

Wow; I missed waking up to content.

Alright; first things first; I think my little nitpick has outworn it's relevance. It's just something I found that had a chance of being a slip [But apparently everyone else thinks it's not and I'm dumb] which I used to start discussion.

#Unvote

Right; so the next step is to look at what happened after my vote.

As I said earlier; I don't like SB's reaction to my out-of RVS case. The fact that I implicated him and her reacted in this way is worrisome. Firstly he says I admitted my case was bad; where I never actually said such a thing. [It could be argued it was implied; but I never intended to do so. It was more of a 'Well how about you make something better'.]

Also; SB states the following:

and he doesn't actually address my criticisms of it at all and try to rectify anything from it.

SB's 'criticisms'?

Or it was just extremely obvious they were RVS votes?

Which completely misses the point of what I was suggesting anyway in the first place [Valtzo's wording].

I think SB's vote on me is bad.

Also Raitaki's #40 sums up the preceding posts pretty well [Although his first paragraph and his second paragraph contradict each others stance hilariously if you replace the I's in the first sentence with 'Raikaria'.]

Valtzo's reaction to me pressing for an explanation I dislike; but then he actually did justify his previous Dan vote. Personally Valtzo; the reasons you claim to have voted Dan are the exact thing I sometimes do; especially to lurkers. The fact he didn't just come clean and explain the Dan vote at first is troublesome; but what follows is good enough that I no longer think is 'small chance of being a slip' is worth persueing anymore.

SB's most recent post is also pretty bad. I think it's worth mentioning at this point he has only really contributed to respond to actions taken against him. [A common scum action] SB; as I just explained; your vote on me was bad. I suggested you were scum and you made a very shaky case on me; reading between the lines; and voted me for the first attempt at a real case in the game. That's an OMGUS reaction. You didn't even really critique the case.

Also I don't like how he's tightly gripping his 'case' on me when Raitaki has already attacked it and messed it up. No-one has been agreeing with your case SB. It might be time to drop it and start actually looking for scum if you want us to think that you are town instead if attacking a case that was naturally shaky as it was the first one out of RVS.

Anyway:

I think they are scum: SB
I would be happy to lynch for useless: ActionDan; BT
Null: NNR
Town Lean: Vhaltz; Refa; Raitaki

It's annoying to have SB as the only person I think is the scums at this point because the primary reason I think he is scum is his direct interactions with me [And Raitaki] because I'm sure there might be a counter-accusation of OMGUS from SB; but the fact his his tunneling on an already dead case and him only talking about said case is as bad; if not worse than; the vote itself.

##Vote: SB

[SB]

I find Vhaltz's switch away from Dan before anything happened kind of off, because switching away from the reaction test/prodvote that early seems kind of like he just squirmed under pressure there, even though it was only one vote there? His Refa suspicion also seems kind of lame too, Vhaltz knows Refa's general activity patterns (this game is normal) but ignores it and focuses on other meta that's more convenient to casing him. It's also kind of disproportionate to the number of words he uses on NNR yet still votes Refa instead which is kind of perplexing.

You and SB are also lame for using the "he could've made that case earlier!" scumtell because iirc I made that up in Healer Mafia as scum to cast suspicion on people for no good reason, and if I wasn't the first to do so it's still dumb 90% of the time.

I only asked this to get a better view on your mindset, but your response was just "I didn't notice it" which could've gone either way so I didn't get anything out of it.

I guess NNR's later explanations are okay, but what do you think of recent posts? You kind of skipped over all of them in favor of your responses. This goes for Dan and kind of BT too, but BT hasn't actually been around I think, so.

Response to Raikaria will come in a few minutes.

[BT]

Glorious input will come... soon. I'm sorry for immortalizing a trend of D1 lurking lately, my attention span for mafia is getting shorter by the month.

[SB]

@Raikaria's post:

If you didn't mean to imply it was bad, meh, but your "you do better" response is still scummy since its trying to push the pressure off of you onto other people. Just because you made the first case in the game (except Vhaltz's meta thing even came before yours so yeah) does not mean you are exempt from suspicion when doing so, which is what you seem to be flaunting and it's kind of irritating to be honest.

I guess you could say my critcisms were vague but seriously just saying "you do better" rather than explaining why your vote was good when you had two responses that were pretty clearly telling you it was a bad case is not a good attitude to have. You also say that I was tunneling you but neglect to realize the only other thing happening the last time I was posting were cases on me, which I'm obviously not going to agree with? You also have no other scumreads so calling me out as scum for it is hypocritical as fuck.

Shit like "why are you clinging to your case when Raitaki failed to do so, this is scummy" is also horrible; I'm going to vote for the person who I think is scum unless I need to change my vote for deadline and yet you're painting it as scummy because so it basically feels like you're just trying to fling shit and me and see what sticks, rather than actually hunting for scum.

[Raikaria]

I... don't even get half of what you are saying SB.

How does the number of scumreads I have bear relevance to anything? I have townreads on a few people; and there are 2 and a half [NNR's put some content but it's minimal] lurkers as well. I'm fairly sure that one of the lurkers is probobly scum at this point given the MotK meta of lurking scum; but I can't make a solid read based on that now; can I? Hell; Dan lurked through most of last game and was scum.

And I *had* a scumread on Valtzo; but he's disproved that. You're not doing anything to disprove my scumread on you. Literally your vote on me seems to be 'I don't like your right out of RVS case which nitpicks a tiny thing and implicates me as scum'. And despite other people saying you're misinterpreting my words; which you seem yto be relying on as your core's center; you're still tunneling on the case.

I mean seriously; read your posts. Considering you made an assumption in your initial case which was proved wrong; it seems you are the one 'flinging shit' as you so eloquently put it. At least I'm not centering my case of incorrect assumptions. I'm centering my case off your clear actions.

But at least you did make a post that was neither defending yourself or your bad case on me. Which is a start; I guess; and slightly improves my opinion of you. Just not enough for me to unvote you at this point and consider lynching Dan/BT/NNR over you.

Also [im]patiently waiting for BT/Dan's content. Kinda hard to make reads on people who don't do anything after all.

[SB]

I'm gonna ask you if you're reading MY posts. If you did, you see that I'm NOT tunneling and that your initial case wasn't even what I found you scummy for. Seriously. The point about tunneling is relevant considering you're using it against me, it's completely hypocritical how you accuse me of it (wrongly) when you're guilty of it yourself.

[Raikaria]

Yes; you're reasoning's core is that you find my reaction to your 'critism' and I say that very lightly; of my out-of RVS case scummy.

When you've been told multiple times that you misinterpreted my reaction. The crux of what you find scummy about me is an assumption that was wrong.

The fact that you keep stubbornly defending this veiw; at first from Raitaki; and now even standing by it now; refusing to change your stance or look for other scum-reads or even acknowledge the rest of the game until your post a little further above this one IS tunneling.

All you did until that point was defend your awful case based off of an incorrect assumption that other players did not agree with [Both Raitaki and NNR have said they read it otherwise]; and defend yourself from Raitaki's case on you as a result. All you have been doing is defending all game.

And if you actually read my posts you would know that is my beef with you, and your case. I've said this like three times now. I don't know how to make it any clearer.

[Raikaria]

And I find it absolutely hilarious that you are accusing me of tunneling. I've pressured Valtz; I've pressured you; I've given opinions on other players.

All you have done is defend yourself from Raitaki and defend your case and make that little post after being called out for Tunneling already by me. Obviously I'm focusing on you right now; no-one else is posting so there is no other content for me to talk about.

[Vhaltz]

20 hours left in the day and we're barely having any actual content, BT and Dan should play the game ASAP or I'm shooting them.

Still reading up

[Vhaltz]

There's 2 scum in this game almost guaranteed. SB pretend Raikaria doesn't exist in this game for like 20 minutes and tell me who else you think is most likely to be scum and why.

[Vhaltz]

Still want to see Refa post more but meh

##Unvote
##Vote: NNR

Don't like how NNR just responded to my concerns about him and called it a day without commenting on any of the newer actual content by Refa/me, his BT vote was okay but his blurb on the whole Raikaria/Raitaki/SB/me issue also didn't really take a stance on anything. I recall NNR being more confrontational as town so I don't like seeing literally nothing in his posts that implies a scumhunting thought process aside from his BT vote.

I'd like to say I have Actual Townreads but I don't. If anything I'm slightly leaning town on Raikaria because his logic is internally consistent even though I don't particularly agree with it, but I wouldn't be surprised if I were wrong.

[Mitsuki]

Prod-dodge posts were not intended to count as activity.
Since this was not well reflected on the rules, I'll apply it from this point on.

[Vhaltz]

Also wrt my switch off of Dan I felt like my first response to Raikaria was me being kind of a condescending asshole as a consequence of being frustrated from people questioning very obvious reaction tests, so I felt like I should give him an Actual Reply without being a jerk. Then I decided since the Dan vote was going to be useless anyway after explaining, I might as well just thoughtdump everything I had on the game, so I did.

My explanation for NNR!scum probably sucked, by basis is that NNR is active lurking and coasting by on generally agreeable content because outright lurkers look worse and draw more attention, meaning he can get away with not actually doing anything meaningful.

[SB]

I thought the implication was there that I was suspicious of you and NNR as well? I also think Refa is kind of obvtown but you seemed to have dropped that anyway so eh,

[NekoNekoRex]

I responded to the post but something managed to sidetrack me and I forgot to read the  rest of the thread. (looking it up, it was a skype link to a video someone sent me about catgirls, go figure)

uuuuugh posts. I'm in the same boat as BT here, I can't seem to find my Mafia drive recently. It's probably in my other pair of shorts.

I seriously am not going to gain much from trying to analyze posts here so I'm going to ask Mitsuki what he thinks of my earlier view of the Raikaria v SB case

[NekoNekoRex]

EBWOP. Meant Vhaltz, and 'she'

[NekoNekoRex]

All you did until that point was defend your awful case based off of an incorrect assumption that other players did not agree with [Both Raitaki and NNR have said they read it otherwise]

This is literally the only thing that caught my attention in my read-through and I still have yet to figure out what context I should apply it to, but I feel like it should take me... somewhere. I feel like I could accuse Raikaria of the same thing but I'm not sure who has a more valid case between Raikaria and SB at this point. I should read them both again in ISO.

[Vhaltz]

Your reply wrt Raikaria makes okay sense but it still doesn't give me any idea of what you think of them or anybody else in the game.

[Raitaki]

Still think SB is scummy. Pretty much agreeing with stuff Raikaria said about SB while I was gonna, especially the tunneling. Before being called out he only posted 2 lines questioning NNR and nothing else.

I agree with Vhaltz, we should consolidate soon. I'm also willing to lynch one of the lurkers (BT, NNR, Dan) if we can't get a majority on SB, though I'd prefer Dan gone over the other two (unless they don't show up with their promised content/Dan shows up with acceptable content). It'd also be great if Refa can show up and give his thoughts on current events, particularly how the Raikaria vs. SB has been going.

[Raitaki]

If Refa still sees them as town, then his insight on that would help also.

[ActionDan]

Been at a family Gathering.   Will post soon

[Raikaria]

Yeah consolidation is soon but I'd really like to see input from the lurkers.

I'm actually not 110% on SB since he put in some effort after being prodded and his main mistake is ultimately a misunderstanding [and his refusal to back down from it]. Depending on stuff that happens I may be more inclined to vote someone who is at least playing the game.

After all; lurkers have a funny tendency to be scum; sitting back and watching town beat on town D1 because the people scumhunting whack each other since there's nothing else to whack. In fact the simple fact that this has happened so many times does make me a *little* hesitant on lynching SB now.

And Dan; wouldn't it have been nice to tell us you would be vl/la earlier instead of promising content 'soon' at that time? Seriously I'm starting to think when you promise content 'soon' it's like when Valve promises Half Life 3 'soon'. This isn't the only game you've done this.