Author Topic: Defend the Maiden - C9 Mafia edition (Pesco, Affinity Wins) (Read 29183 times)

UncertainJakutten · « **Reply #30 on:** April 11, 2010, 07:05:24 PM »

Well, I have to do something stupid to get us out of RVS since lol lurkers. So I'm going to kinda tunnel on Pesco for a bit pointing out every inane thing in his posts and see how people react.

Also, saying Rou sucks is totally contentless and distracts the town from scumhunting >=[

Kiro · « **Reply #31 on:** April 11, 2010, 07:12:41 PM »

Oh...

Strangely it works by the way you worded it Pesco.

UK: It's in his meta to bash Rou just like how we'll never criticize you for voting the mod. Well, other than Pesco being at L-1 right now, still nothing of real note here.

WHMZakeri · « **Reply #32 on:** April 11, 2010, 07:14:11 PM »

The Second "New page, new count" Votecount

1. Affinity (1) - Roukanken
2. Uncertain Kitten (0) -
3. Pesco (3) - Huh what, Affinity, UncertainKitten
4. Huh What (2) - Kiro, Roukanken
5. Roukanken (1) - Pesco
6. Kiro (0) -
7. Kitten4u (0) -

Pesco is at L-1
With seven playing, it take four to lynch.
You have 25.25 hours left to decide.

GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em · « **Reply #33 on:** April 11, 2010, 07:57:50 PM »

Quote from: AnncertainKoulter on April 11, 2010, 07:05:24 PM

Also, saying Rou sucks is totally contentless and distracts the town from scumhunting >=[

What scumhunting? :|

Wow this is slow paced. Pesco, is randomly insulting Rou really necessary, regardless of meta? Plus you used it to dodge the main point (not that it was a big one), so yeah.

Also, ##Unvote, just in case somebody comes along and hammers Pesco for no reason

Kitten4u · « **Reply #34 on:** April 11, 2010, 08:24:57 PM »

I was hoping there'd be more to go on when I woke up today.

Case on Pesco is silly even for a D1 case, but I don't think UK is scummy for using it. There is literally nothing here, so I can't fault her for pushing the "case." Pesco's just being himself, so I have no complaints on him either.

##Vote Roukanken because my gut keeps telling me to and I have nothing better to go off of at this moment.

Pesco · « **Reply #35 on:** April 11, 2010, 08:44:37 PM »

Never realized I was at L-1.

##Unvote

Can you elaborate a little on what kind of gut that is? Meta-gut, what-scum-would-do-gut or something else?

Kitten4u · « **Reply #36 on:** April 11, 2010, 09:07:07 PM »

Quote from: Pesco

Can you elaborate a little on what kind of gut that is?

Not really. I just read through the game several times and every time my gut focused on him. Hence my mild irritation.

Pesco · « **Reply #37 on:** April 11, 2010, 09:10:28 PM »

Would you be willing to see him lynched today then?

Kitten4u · « **Reply #38 on:** April 11, 2010, 09:46:47 PM »

Quote from: Pesco on April 11, 2010, 09:10:28 PM

Would you be willing to see him lynched today then?

Like I said it's the best I've got right now. It wouldn't be ideal, but I'd take "best I've got" over "not the best I've got."

UncertainJakutten · « **Reply #39 on:** April 11, 2010, 10:03:30 PM »

I think everyone has reacted. HW's mostly ignoring of my tactics bothers me a bit. The unvote is a null tell at this point.

So, ##Unvote, Vote Huh What

L-1

GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em · « **Reply #40 on:** April 11, 2010, 11:48:14 PM »

Quote from: AnncertainKoulter on April 11, 2010, 10:03:30 PM

I think everyone has reacted. HW's mostly ignoring of my tactics bothers me a bit. The unvote is a null tell at this point.

What do you mean by "ignoring of your tactics"?

UncertainJakutten · « **Reply #41 on:** April 12, 2010, 12:07:04 AM »

I was waiting for responses to my professed handling of Pesco. Not sure if you are connected to him but you were basically the one that had the least commentary on it, and it's somewhere to go for more reactions. I may eventually have something to base a case on if this keeps up!

GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em · « **Reply #42 on:** April 12, 2010, 12:21:48 AM »

I didn't say anything about them because I didn't really have anything to add/comment about. Don't see much point in acknowledging something if I'm just going to be all "yeah ok".

You seem like you're being a bit too eager, but then again not much is going on so meh.

UncertainJakutten · « **Reply #43 on:** April 12, 2010, 12:24:42 AM »

See, usually I'd agree that my eagerness could be taken as scum trying to appear pro town. But, at this point, given how little is going on, the fact I am trying to stir the pot is a slight town tell.

Then again, I know that so I've basically reduced this to WIFOM, though there's a handy remedy for that with a little critical thinking.

Also, in this set up, as long as L-1 is declared, it shouldn't be too dangerous. Scum would have to be suicidal to quickhammer, and town would have to be idiotic. Hey, town, we aren't stupid are we?

Affinity · « **Reply #44 on:** April 12, 2010, 12:33:17 AM »

Eh, I meant the OMGUS comment as a random vote, but oh well. In any case, I'm not very thrilled at K4U going for gut over insubstantial reasons; being okay with UK's case on pesco and pesco at the same time smacks of a detachedness not appropriate for town.

pesco's active questioning seems town enough for me so early in the game, though I'm not too thrilled at huh what and pesco not voting others right now.

##Unvote
##Vote: K4U

GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em · « **Reply #45 on:** April 12, 2010, 12:39:27 AM »

Quote from: AnncertainKoulter on April 12, 2010, 12:24:42 AM

See, usually I'd agree that my eagerness could be taken as scum trying to appear pro town.

I meant that it seemed to me like you were trying to get a lynch (which would end the day/discussion as a result... wait, this isn't still nightless, is it?) asap based on the attitude of your posts, especially considering both of your switches so far have been placing people into L-1 though that's likely a coincidence. Still feel it might be worth noting though.

Quote

Also, in this set up, as long as L-1 is declared, it shouldn't be too dangerous. Scum would have to be suicidal to quickhammer, and town would have to be idiotic. Hey, town, we aren't stupid are we?

Mistakes happen, but w/e. Also "Hey, town, we aren't stupid are we?" comes off really, really oddly.

UncertainJakutten · « **Reply #46 on:** April 12, 2010, 12:42:25 AM »

<Good>

Not sure it's necessarily TOWN, but it was good.

You caught the most awkward part of my statement, since it was a (not so) subtle reaffirmation of my towniness. Either way, the mistakes happen attitude is what causes you to lose caught scum. I don't like the idea that you might be excusing future...slips.

Let me make it clear. Undeclared L-1 will merit an FoS from me, and possibly a vote. A quickhammer will certainly stick my vote to you for the rest of the game.

GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em · « **Reply #47 on:** April 12, 2010, 12:49:53 AM »

By mistakes, I mean if somebody votes without realizing the person is at L-1. If it's obviously an attempt at quickhammering though then I can see where you're coming from. Then again, scum can easily lie and say it's a mistake, so yeah I admit that was kind of stupid to say.

Quote

You caught the most awkward part of my statement, since it was a (not so) subtle reaffirmation of my towniness.

I don't see how it actually works to reaffirm people, since scum can say they're town too. Starting to feel like you're tacking on a big "I'm trying to get people to say I'm protown!" banner to your posts that don't actually do much for town.

UncertainJakutten · « **Reply #48 on:** April 12, 2010, 12:52:11 AM »

That's precisely what it does. It does absolutely nothing and it is, isolated, a scummy act. I have a bad habit of doing it regardless of alignment (though that right there is minimizing the tell, which isn't good either)

Honestly, I'm not sure where I'm going with this but I'm having fun in the process

.

GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em · « **Reply #49 on:** April 12, 2010, 12:57:04 AM »

Ugh. That post comes off like you're trying to use meta to excuse yourself. It doesn't even help that you lampshaded it too.

##Vote: UncertainKitten

GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em · « **Reply #50 on:** April 12, 2010, 12:57:31 AM »

On second thought meta might not be the term I'm looking for here. But it should be obvious what I mean.

UncertainJakutten · « **Reply #51 on:** April 12, 2010, 12:59:06 AM »

To excuse that one tell, yes. But it is a demonstrable meta. It is, at best, a slight scumtell, and possibly just a null tell.

I would advise you to look at um...whatever mafia was before Himelander to get an idea of it.

Kitten4u · « **Reply #52 on:** April 12, 2010, 02:11:23 AM »

Quote from: Affinity

In any case, I'm not very thrilled at K4U going for gut over insubstantial reasons; being okay with UK's case on pesco and pesco at the same time smacks of a detachedness not appropriate for town.

How is voting on gut any different than voting for silly reasons?

And I stated that the only reason that I was okay with her case on Pesco was because there was nothing else there. I can't fault someone for trying even if I thought it was a dumb case and I didn't have a problem with Pesco.

Kiro · « **Reply #53 on:** April 12, 2010, 03:28:18 AM »

Not sure why Pesco bothered to unvote Rou and not put it on someone else while doing a not so aggressive questioning of K4U's vote on Rou.

huh what's back and forth with UK is not really striking warning bells with me about either of them despite them openly discussing WIFOMy tactics. The fact that Affinity and K4U both have ignored it when the first 2 have actually voted each other at this point is probably a good sign about huh what and UK.

Pesco's softball approach so far is a valid concern and the fact that he's got:

1) An unvote of Rou that wasn't entirely necessary.
2) Affinity's waffling stance on Pesco but lack of vote on Pesco.
3) The quick exchange with K4U that leads to nowhere and K4U not having a problem with Pesco.

Feels good enough for a serious vote.

##Unvote huh what
##Vote Pesco
L-2

Kiro · « **Reply #54 on:** April 12, 2010, 03:31:36 AM »

Oh, make that L-3. All the random votes on Pesco had disappeared by this point.

Affinity · « **Reply #55 on:** April 12, 2010, 04:52:53 AM »

@K4U: Bad reasons are better than no reasons at all when it comes to D1 mafia, and that's the problem. If you think pesco can be excused on meta, then why do you think it's reasonable for UK not to use it back then?

@Kiro: WIFOM tactics are old news and lead to pointless bickering and walls of text on day one. Again, bad reasons are better than none, and thus I feel it alright to discount them as opposed to K4U, who is voting for nor reason other than gut.

As for my stance on pesco, he's slightly town for questioning K4U but not okay for not voting her. Still better than K4U in my opinion.

Kitten4u · « **Reply #56 on:** April 12, 2010, 05:16:25 AM »

Quote from: Affinity

Bad reasons are better than no reasons at all when it comes to D1 mafia, and that's the problem.

I do have a reason. It's "because my gut said so." Seriously, how is that any different from any other silly reason to vote for someone? I could understand if you were yelling at me for using lolgut if there was actually something reasonable for me to go off of, but since you wouldn't care if I used UK's argument (for example) I really don't understand your issue here. Please explain to me why using my gut when I have nothing better to go on is scummy.

Quote from: Affinity

If you think pesco can be excused on meta, then why do you think it's reasonable for UK not to use it back then?

I have no idea what you're trying to ask me here. I have no problems with Pesco. I have no problems with UK. I'm not clearing either based on meta, they're simply not scummy. What's the issue here?

Affinity · « **Reply #57 on:** April 12, 2010, 05:32:52 AM »

@K4U:

Quote

Pesco's just being himself, so I have no complaints on him either.

You are using meta to clear pesco.

Furthermore, other people have used reasons which can be demonstrated by tangible posts and votes in the topic, but gut is not one of them. That's the thing.

Kitten4u · « **Reply #58 on:** April 12, 2010, 05:37:56 AM »

Quote from: Affinity

You are using meta to clear pesco.

No I'm not. Yes, the random ad hom on Rou is him being himself, but I wouldn't find that scummy if it came from someone else. That's all that comment was refering to.

And once again, please explain to me why using gut is something scum is more likely to do than town. As far as I can tell it's simply suboptimal.

Kiro · « **Reply #59 on:** April 12, 2010, 05:46:40 AM »

Quote from: Affinity on April 12, 2010, 04:52:53 AM

@K4U: Bad reasons are better than no reasons at all when it comes to D1 mafia, and that's the problem. If you think pesco can be excused on meta, then why do you think it's reasonable for UK not to use it back then?

UK did use it. Albeit for a mostly random vote. K4U was just saying that it was weird, but didn't find UK scummy for it.

Quote from: Affinity on April 12, 2010, 04:52:53 AM

As for my stance on pesco, he's slightly town for questioning K4U but not okay for not voting her. Still better than K4U in my opinion.

I wouldn't call those simple sentences questioning. It was even on a gut vote with no followup of any kind. And no one else has bothered to pursue this with a vote which is making me suspicious with the way people kind of touch on his not-so-good actions. I'm not all that happy with K4U either, but Pesco's actions are more actively bad and I feel more information can be gleaned from lynching him.

Cut by K4U:
Call me a little skeptical that you're still voting Rou on gut when he currently has the least amount of activity in. Rou will certainly say something when he's up. And if it satisfies you enough, who else could you go for? Even if Rou is scum, there's one more out there and it kind of feels you aren't looking around enough. If UK and Pesco are ok to you, surely you could consider the actions of a few others a little more. You aren't initiating questioning, only responding. All this is enough for me to consider switching to you as well.

Quote from: Kitten4u on April 12, 2010, 05:37:56 AM

And once again, please explain to me why using gut is something scum is more likely to do than town. As far as I can tell it's simply suboptimal.

There's no way that question can be answered effectively. If that's the extent of your questioning and defense, it leaves you as an unknown and a D1 lynch worthy case.