Author Topic: Himelander Mafia Thread (Over! Scum Win!)  (Read 71684 times)

Bardiche

  • Mafia: Worst Game Ever
Re: Himelander Mafia Thread (Day 1)
« Reply #60 on: February 12, 2010, 06:06:58 PM »
Well, if all attention remains on me, it means all the others could just skirt by sitting in wait, knowing that Pesco would draw the day into this inevitable duel. Especially now given that he was given a challenge from you to keep his word, no?

Now that the duel has begun, I'm left with ill little knowledge of what charges be put against me, and how others even feel on the issue: I should hope the coming forty-eight hours be at least enlightening enough that people get chances to speak and let themselves be known lest "LAL" be the method to resort to near the end.

UncertainJakutten

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Re: Himelander Mafia Thread (Day 1)
« Reply #61 on: February 12, 2010, 06:11:39 PM »
Heehee, well, it's pretty hard to skirt by now. Focusing so much on you would be pointless. I think everyone needs to post their progressive thoughts on you and pesco as the day goes on, but cases should still go around so we can figure out what we are doing tomorrow.


Pesco

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Re: Himelander Mafia Thread (Day 1)
« Reply #62 on: February 12, 2010, 06:14:49 PM »
So how's about dem votes?

UncertainJakutten

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Re: Himelander Mafia Thread (Day 1)
« Reply #63 on: February 12, 2010, 06:15:36 PM »
##Vote Pesco


Kilgamayan

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Re: Himelander Mafia Thread (Day 1)
« Reply #64 on: February 12, 2010, 06:29:19 PM »
##Vote: Bardiche

Both answers were unimpressive. Pesco's more so, given he more or less ignored the point entirely. I also don't like the "don't think just act" attitude that seems to be oozing from his posts (andUK's to alesser extent, for all that she's relevant right now)

Sirrah, might I point out I clearly stated where I stood on the described events? Regulating the duels just does not sit with me as a bright idea, given the abyssmal chance of success and the complications I suspect it will bring along.

There is still a lot of unnecessary pro-town fluff in that post, like telling town to make sure they try to win their duels. What's the point of pointing that out?
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Bardiche

  • Mafia: Worst Game Ever
Re: Himelander Mafia Thread (Day 1)
« Reply #65 on: February 12, 2010, 06:31:17 PM »
There is still a lot of unnecessary pro-town fluff in that post, like telling town to make sure they try to win their duels. What's the point of pointing that out?

In case anyone thinks, "Hey, I'm town and if town falls below a certain threshold, we win! I should let myself die because I'm not too useful anyway!" or something along those lines, of course.

UncertainJakutten

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Re: Himelander Mafia Thread (Day 1)
« Reply #66 on: February 12, 2010, 06:32:18 PM »
Quote
Both answers were unimpressive. Pesco's more so, given he more or less ignored the point entirely. I also don't like the "don't think just act" attitude that seems to be oozing from his posts (andUK's to alesser extent, for all that she's relevant right now)

But I think thought was indeed involved. It just might not be 'satisfactory thought'.


FinnKaenbyou

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Re: Himelander Mafia Thread (Day 1)
« Reply #67 on: February 12, 2010, 06:36:59 PM »
I'd like to hear Rou's thoughts on Bard's posts.
Well,
Quote
Always remember, though: if you're town, you always want to win your duels.
I got a weird vibe from this, I'll admit. Besides that it feels slightly condescending, it seems to be trying to goad Town into attacking too early.

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The only thing that leaves me nervous is Roukanken's meta-play on alleged scum actions, making statements as "scum would avoid scum vs scum" and "mafia are looking for ways to throw themselves into fights without looking suspicious".
Quote from: Bardiche
The possibility of staging a scum vs scum duel seems slim at best.
Hypocrisy much?

I'm not sure how much of Bardiche's 'Oh dear, this is all very troublesome' is just RPing and how much of it is trying to get written off as a helpful Townie.

Meanwhile, his comments along the lines of 'You're about to prove yourself sorely wrong' and 'After all, I'm town, so my victory will always be in town's best interest' really rub me the wrong way. You realise comments like that pretty much bleed WIFOM, right?

On the other hand, Pesco has this 'special person' thing, and I have no clue if it's a claim or a reference or whatever. Besides that he basically flung himself into battle at the first opportunity claiming FPMH, which I've never liked regardless of its former results. Here it's twice as bad because now we have no choice but to either trust him or kill him off. The absolute refusal to give any reasoning for his suspicion other than 'just because' doesn't help matters.

I'm edging towards voting Bard for this showdown, but really I'm just irritated we ended up getting a showdown so freaking quickly. I mean seriously, I don't know if half the players have even posted yet.

FinnKaenbyou

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Re: Himelander Mafia Thread (Day 1)
« Reply #68 on: February 12, 2010, 06:37:40 PM »
EBWOP: Gah, I meant voting Pesco so Bard would die. This setup is weird. :/

Pesco

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Re: Himelander Mafia Thread (Day 1)
« Reply #69 on: February 12, 2010, 06:37:58 PM »
You guys want the duelists to self vote early or not to prevent quickhammer?

UncertainJakutten

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Re: Himelander Mafia Thread (Day 1)
« Reply #70 on: February 12, 2010, 06:39:36 PM »
Oh, Rou. Would you please stop rolefishing on Pesco? So what if he soft claimed? we do not need to know


Bardiche

  • Mafia: Worst Game Ever
Re: Himelander Mafia Thread (Day 1)
« Reply #71 on: February 12, 2010, 06:42:39 PM »
Hypocrisy much?

None whatsoever; in staging duels as per town's consensus, it is difficult to set up scum VS scum as per my expectations because usually, town:scum ratio is canted in town's favour.

Moreover, you suggested that scum would avoid this, which isn't necessarily true, but the argument for that leads into WIFOM.

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I'm not sure how much of Bardiche's 'Oh dear, this is all very troublesome' is just RPing and how much of it is trying to get written off as a helpful Townie.

Well, I am the principal. Infighting and accusing the principal of murder is all very troublesome.

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Meanwhile, his comments along the lines of 'You're about to prove yourself sorely wrong' and 'After all, I'm town, so my victory will always be in town's best interest' really rub me the wrong way. You realise comments like that pretty much bleed WIFOM, right?

"Hey, your post is MindHax! (whatever that means) I'm going to CRUISE CONTROL INTO DUEL TWO HOURS FROM NOW."

Okay. Please suggest a viable course of action to undertake here other than, "Hey, you know what? You're wrong, I'm town."

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I'm edging towards voting Bard for this showdown, but really I'm just irritated we ended up getting a showdown so freaking quickly. I mean seriously, I don't know if half the players have even posted yet.

Then we're of the same mind regarding that at least. Seriously, some players can now sit back and watch this unfold thanks to someone's rashness.


I was under the impression we can't vote ourselves, but if we can:

##VOTE: Bardiche, of course.

Pesco

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Re: Himelander Mafia Thread (Day 1)
« Reply #72 on: February 12, 2010, 06:50:13 PM »
Nah, Rou just needs to sit through all 26 episodes like me and I'll be happy. :V

But seriously, just go watch from like episode 16 onwards to the end. My question will make a lot more sense and you can stop being excessively paranoid. I'll still be keeping an eye on you though.

It does look like a soft claim, to be sure, Pesco.

Nice bit of egging on paranoia

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Either way, I agree with those people who prefer caution over headlong rushing into the heat of the battle. There are a number of strategies scum can employ to lead town astray.

However, attempting to reason as to scum's actions presents such a wide web of possibilities, narrowing it down to just a single one seems difficult if not foolish.

When given the option of staging the duels and regulating it, I can't find myself in agreement. That would be giving town an unnecessary handicap: after all, once that is over and done with, we must be more diligent in catching scum, because there is a good possibility they have already accrued some victories. The possibility of staging a scum vs scum duel seems slim at best.

Waffle wafle speculative waffle

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No, I think it would be best everyone use their own judgment in issueing duel invitations. Always remember, though: if you're town, you always want to win your duels.

That's what I'm doing here. However, winners of duels don't get confirmed and will accrue suspicion on themselves.

Bardiche

  • Mafia: Worst Game Ever
Re: Himelander Mafia Thread (Day 1)
« Reply #73 on: February 12, 2010, 06:52:24 PM »
Wait a moment.

Roukanken, shouldn't your vote be on me if you're so displeased with how quick we got into a showdown? Shouldn't you be against the one that caused this?

---------------

Nice bit of egging on paranoia.

"Guys does my special other die too?"
"WAIT THAT'S A SOFTCLAIM"
"lol you fail"

"Well, it does look like a soft claim."

Pesco

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Re: Himelander Mafia Thread (Day 1)
« Reply #74 on: February 12, 2010, 06:56:29 PM »
Probability-wise, scum team has to has someone who plays on MotK. They'd know quite well that Rou's paranoia weakness is easy to exploit. You agree with him, so tell us why and what does it prove instead of just nodding.

FinnKaenbyou

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Re: Himelander Mafia Thread (Day 1)
« Reply #75 on: February 12, 2010, 06:58:41 PM »
Oh, Rou. Would you please stop rolefishing on Pesco? So what if he soft claimed? we do not need to know
You're assuming that this isn't, say, a fakeclaim? >_>

Moreover, you suggested that scum would avoid this, which isn't necessarily true, but the argument for that leads into WIFOM.
My point was for my scenario - i.e. let a challenge go as normal then have the winner be killed the next day - scum DEFINITELY don't want to challenge each other, because they lose two members and gain nothing.
If we left them to their own devices, scum/scum is possible, but in the example I was intending to set up it's completely pointless and thus I expected it to be avoided if at all possible.

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Okay. Please suggest a viable course of action to undertake here other than, "Hey, you know what? You're wrong, I'm town."
"Hey, you know what? You're lying, you're scum." Attack, don't defend.

Wait a moment.

Roukanken, shouldn't your vote be on me if you're so displeased with how quick we got into a showdown? Shouldn't you be against the one that caused this?
As much as I'd like to, Pesco's meta is disgusting in that he does this sort of stupid suicidal useless crap as Town. T_T

Out of interest, Bardiche, did you watch the series? Something a little more lighthearted out of curiosity while I ignore the headache this game is already giving me. And maybe some wikipedia reading to figure out what the hell Pesco's talking about.

Re: Himelander Mafia Thread (Day 1)
« Reply #76 on: February 12, 2010, 07:00:45 PM »
8)

Dammit, you guys started the action so early~ I am quite sad!

Anyway, I think that Pesco's argument is pretty weak overall -- his assumption is that he won't be the one who is killed off (and if Bard is scum and he is killed off he basically will be giving scum a free kill). I think this is a pretty terrible assumption as town but not a terrible one to push as scum -- if you convince the opposition that challenging and voting Bard is the best things strategically, it is a good start.

Bard is acting passive-aggressive on the other hand and I can't say I approve of that at all. I don't understand why he voted for himself at all.

Rou is really the one I think is challenge-worthy, but apparently he is always paranoid according to Pesco? I'm not sure how much I can interpret a bit of shitstorming as scummy, but I can't really meta with players here. :p
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Bardiche

  • Mafia: Worst Game Ever
Re: Himelander Mafia Thread (Day 1)
« Reply #77 on: February 12, 2010, 07:05:15 PM »
Voting for self = self-preservation, Ciato.

Pesco

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Re: Himelander Mafia Thread (Day 1)
« Reply #78 on: February 12, 2010, 07:06:35 PM »
When I know something of you personally, I WILL use it for an advantage. That is all.

UncertainJakutten

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Re: Himelander Mafia Thread (Day 1)
« Reply #79 on: February 12, 2010, 07:07:18 PM »
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You're assuming that this isn't, say, a fakeclaim? >_>

...why in the name of god would anyone ever fakeclaim lover? If that's what it is. I mean, seriously.

Actually, you know what, fuck it. Please, tell me what you think Pesco's role is, and why fakeclaiming it would give him ANY advantage?



FinnKaenbyou

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Re: Himelander Mafia Thread (Day 1)
« Reply #80 on: February 12, 2010, 07:10:03 PM »
Actually, you know what, fuck it. Please, tell me what you think Pesco's role is, and why fakeclaiming it would give him ANY advantage?
I was suspecting some sort of scum bomb - when defeated in a challenge, takes the opponent down as well to score one point before death. Listing himself as a lover would make him a likely target for a challenge, since removing two townies from the equation makes things even easier for Town.

Bardiche

  • Mafia: Worst Game Ever
Re: Himelander Mafia Thread (Day 1)
« Reply #81 on: February 12, 2010, 07:13:06 PM »
Probability-wise, scum team has to has someone who plays on MotK. They'd know quite well that Rou's paranoia weakness is easy to exploit. You agree with him, so tell us why and what does it prove instead of just nodding.

So now your argument is "Bard must know of Rou's weakness". Riiiight.

I agree with him because it does look like that. What other reason is there to ask such a thing?

My point was for my scenario - i.e. let a challenge go as normal then have the winner be killed the next day - scum DEFINITELY don't want to challenge each other, because they lose two members and gain nothing.

WIFOM.

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If we left them to their own devices, scum/scum is possible, but in the example I was intending to set up it's completely pointless and thus I expected it to be avoided if at all possible.

WIFOM.

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"Hey, you know what? You're lying, you're scum." Attack, don't defend.

Attack him on what? He just said he voted me because First Blood is Badass.

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Out of interest, Bardiche, did you watch the series? Something a little more lighthearted out of curiosity while I ignore the headache this game is already giving me. And maybe some wikipedia reading to figure out what the hell Pesco's talking about.

A little.

Pesco

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Re: Himelander Mafia Thread (Day 1)
« Reply #82 on: February 12, 2010, 07:16:30 PM »
Just out of interest Rou, who on the player list do you think is the dearest one to me (RL relations I mean)?

Killing 2 townies means there's 2 less targets for scum to fight. If they don't have enough scum vs town matches, they lose. The game setup favours town.

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So now your argument is "Bard must know of Rou's weakness". Riiiight.

I agree with him because it does look like that. What other reason is there to ask such a thing?

Go visit the Wizard of Oz, Strawman. You agree with him, so what does it prove if you think I was softclaiming?

FinnKaenbyou

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Re: Himelander Mafia Thread (Day 1)
« Reply #83 on: February 12, 2010, 07:19:07 PM »
WIFOM.
You realise that if scum DID accept a scum/scum battle in those circumstances it'd be a huge bonus for us, right? I discarded it because it's idealistic, best-case-scenario thinking that is a million to one from ever happening because two scum offering themselves up to be lynched for NO REASON isn't worth it. That is why the survivor of the challenge dies Day 2.

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Attack him on what? He just said he voted me because First Blood is Badass.
Then say that. Say he's being overimpulsive or something. Don't say 'he's wrong'.

Bardiche

  • Mafia: Worst Game Ever
Re: Himelander Mafia Thread (Day 1)
« Reply #84 on: February 12, 2010, 07:19:47 PM »
Go visit the Wizard of Oz, Strawman. You agree with him, so what does it prove if you think I was softclaiming?

It proves that I think your venomous attitude against him was beacuse of a not unfounded suspicion.

UncertainJakutten

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Re: Himelander Mafia Thread (Day 1)
« Reply #85 on: February 12, 2010, 07:20:32 PM »
I was suspecting some sort of scum bomb - when defeated in a challenge, takes the opponent down as well to score one point before death. Listing himself as a lover would make him a likely target for a challenge, since removing two townies from the equation makes things even easier for Town.

This...what?

This doesn't even make SENSE!

How is losing two townies GOOD FOR TOWN? Further, if he's a scum bomb, wouldn't he just do what he did and not even bother with the fake claim? Honestly, this logic does not work.

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Killing 2 townies means there's 2 less targets for scum to fight. If they don't have enough scum vs town matches, they lose. The game setup favours town.

Oh, that's why it's good for town.

At any rate, this is still kinda...yeeeeeeeeeah.


FinnKaenbyou

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Re: Himelander Mafia Thread (Day 1)
« Reply #86 on: February 12, 2010, 07:30:26 PM »
How is losing two townies GOOD FOR TOWN? Further, if he's a scum bomb, wouldn't he just do what he did and not even bother with the fake claim? Honestly, this logic does not work.
1. Scum needs to beat Town in challenges to win. If we reduce the field to less than 5 Townies, Scum cannot win.
2. Why not do both?

That said, having done some reading I'm pretty sure I understand what Pesco was talking about, and I fucked up. Hard. Yes, I'm overly paranoid and I should have paid attention to the background material. >_>

Serp

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Re: Himelander Mafia Thread (Day 1)
« Reply #87 on: February 12, 2010, 07:31:20 PM »
Kiro:  If we were to take my plan and follow it for the whole game, regardless of the flips we got, then yes, we'd basically be gambling everything on the assumption that the mafia has less than five members.  But every time we killed a scum, we'd have another chance to go back and evaluate who's scummiest and who should duel who - and if we got a scumflip out of that fight, then we'd be another kill ahead of scum.  There's also the fact that scum would never be able to accumulate more than one kill more than the number of scum deaths.  So, if we got three scumflips and there were still enough players left for scum to possibly win, we could re-evaluate our strategy then as well.

If we can get two untested combatants to fight, and get the loser to flip scum, that would be ideal, but your plan to pair everyone up at the start would mean that we'd only be able to guess how many heads scum have claimed by looking at how many scumflips we've gotten after everyone has gotten a chance to fight.  And with scum potentially voting as a bloc, they'd probably win more fights than they lost.

As for Pesco vs. Bardiche, I see where Pesco's coming from with his strategy.  Can't say I've gotten a strong scummy impression from Bardiche, but early in the day, you can't really expect that sort of thing, and this gambit of Pesco's feels townie to me.

##Vote: Pesco

At the moment, I'm favoring Rou to kill Pesco if Bardiche flips town, if only for the dramatic value.

Though, it just now occured to me that if two untested people go into battle with each other, and a townie dies, then it might be smarter to have the towniest players go through and kill each other until a scum pops up.  This would hopefully result in a lot of townies being removed from the game before we hit the next scum.  And after that next scum death, the two scummiest players could be picked to fight each other in hopes of killing a scum before he claims a head.
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Edible

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Re: Himelander Mafia Thread (Day 1)
« Reply #88 on: February 12, 2010, 07:31:55 PM »
DAY 1 CHALLENGE SET

Pesco has challenged Bardiche.  You have 46.5 hours to vote for either player.

Vote Count
Bardiche (2) - Bardiche, Kilgamayan
Pesco (2) - UncertainKitten, Serpentarius

Pesco

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Re: Himelander Mafia Thread (Day 1)
« Reply #89 on: February 12, 2010, 07:52:18 PM »
##Vote Pesco

Lynch that sinner nun :V