Author Topic: Touhou Remix: Game Over Man, Game Over!  (Read 63535 times)

UncertainJakutten

  • Then you should get out of the way when I tell you
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Re: Touhou Remix: Game Over Man, Game Over!
« Reply #390 on: August 21, 2009, 01:58:30 AM »
Further, can you HONESTLY say the town played well? Answer that for me please ^-^.
Like I said, Tenshi and Kerigis-san really screwed the Town over. Alice was even more of a lurker than usual, and it's a bad sign that the one person I honestly believed the most to be Town was Suwako, hence the MVP.

I'm willing to withdraw my claim that this game was biased against town and just stick with UK's 'it's swingy' comment. Becuase last I checked, a game that fluctuates that rapidly with no warning is at best imba and at worse bastard mod.

The thing is, if it's unbalanced, it distinctly favors a single team. If it's swingy, any team is favored at any time. It's technically unbalanced but the cumulative unbalance is what balances it when done properly. Admittedly, this game failed in that respect. But no one team REALLY had a huge advantage at any time.

Also, my games tend to be semi bastardly at best. It's kinda been something that's expected of me :S.

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Also, I personally disagree with "If there's on Maf and One SK, the Maf wins" since it basically makes the game even more nintendo hard for the SK, who already has to deal with the stress of being night hit more than once, and not getting lynched even though town has to consider him a valid target if he says anything about his role other than flat out lying about it. Basically, adding "Oh, and on top of having to get the numbers down to yourself and one other person, that one other person has to be townie or else you'll lose anyway."

Actually, that was only because Suwako couldn't be targetted. If it had been Affinity v. Serpy, it would have been scorched earth/no one wins. It wasn't an automatic Mafia v. SK maf win.

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Basically, Serp's best play for day two was to roleclaim as serial killer and then convince people to have Neitz survive target him. Surprisingly enough, this would almost definitely have lead to him winning due to the setup.

Yeah, basically. Hence why I feel bad that I did something that stupid.

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Cut by Jan-san: wait a minute... GOD DAMN IT. I just now realized that my reason for not targeting Serp was invalid. It was because I had confused Jan-san for Xan and thought Sodium had replace Jan-san instead of Xan. which means the whole time I thought it was Jan-san's role that flipped scum during the Haiku-off. fuck me with a spork, I had been trying to reason all day 4 why SerpScum would target JanScum for the time he did. I really hate inactives now.

Sorry, I try to keep the front page updated so you can keep track...

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I believe the game setup had a higher chance of being decided by luck, rather than skill or effort.

That said - I do not believe Scum won due to luck.

I agree here. Though I think skill is not as minimal as you think. I freely admit this was more a night game than a day game. Most role madness games are.


Kiro

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Re: Touhou Remix: Game Over Man, Game Over!
« Reply #391 on: August 21, 2009, 01:59:20 AM »
I'm really not eager to argue this all the way into the night...

Hey, I thought I played the Cop ok. The thing that complicated it for me was me Drinking first because I couldn't resist doing so being a real life alcoholic (I had a beer after I sent in that Night 1 action to boot). I reasoned well enough that I could believe the Innocent Alice result. I was almost guaranteed to make a mistake, but the problem was that the mistake came in LYLO.

Anyways, a 1-1-1 haiku-off... as much fun as that would be, it's the mod kinda deciding the game right there which is bullshit imo. None of the losers might be satisfied with such a result especially if the haikus are reasonably close in quality.

Actually, I don't think the 1-shot SK is imbalanced. I just completely underestimated the fact we'd be in a 33% anti-Town game. And yea, if Serp claimed SK, I probably would have tied that in with Nietz claim and gone with the Affinity lynch. I just thought he was Scum trying to hide behind a Survivor's mask. Although we still might have screwed ourselves in Day 5. Yea..... I'm tempted to say Town could have won this game. But it's still pretty difficult conditions.

UncertainJakutten

  • Then you should get out of the way when I tell you
  • Do you not trust my aim?
Re: Touhou Remix: Game Over Man, Game Over!
« Reply #392 on: August 21, 2009, 02:02:38 AM »
I'm really not eager to argue this all the way into the night...

Hey, I thought I played the Cop ok. The thing that complicated it for me was me Drinking first because I couldn't resist doing so being a real life alcoholic (I had a beer after I sent in that Night 1 action to boot). I reasoned well enough that I could believe the Innocent Alice result. I was almost guaranteed to make a mistake, but the problem was that the mistake came in LYLO.

Anyways, a 1-1-1 haiku-off... as much fun as that would be, it's the mod kinda deciding the game right there which is bullshit imo. None of the losers might be satisfied with such a result especially if the haikus are reasonably close in quality.

Actually, I don't think the 1-shot SK is imbalanced. I just completely underestimated the fact we'd be in a 33% anti-Town game. And yea, if Serp claimed SK, I probably would have tied that in with Nietz claim and gone with the Affinity lynch. I just thought he was Scum trying to hide behind a Survivor's mask. Although we still might have screwed ourselves in Day 5. Yea..... I'm tempted to say Town could have won this game. But it's still pretty difficult conditions.

To the first, yes, you played cop well. I was impressed to be honest. Many would not have done as well. I do want to bring that role back but make it slightly more obvious what you need to do without giving it away, I just don't know how.

And yes, a 1-1-1 haiku off WOULD be lame to an extent. But, I've had situations like that happen before (tie in lylo), and I've basically judged the haiku based on amusingness and not alignment. I haven't had anyone complain about it either. So, I don't worry so much about it.

Serp wasn't one shot. Though, I'm thinking that making him one shot and giving him complete bulletproof might make it more interesting.

Well, it was difficult on D4. D3 and D2, not so much.

EDIT: Oh yeah, about the haiku being close in quality. Odds are I'd call in a third party or two.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2009, 02:04:56 AM by UncertainKitten »


Kiro

  • Drinks: Everything
  • Sleeps: Anywhere
Re: Touhou Remix: Game Over Man, Game Over!
« Reply #393 on: August 21, 2009, 02:05:28 AM »
Actually, yeah. I fucked up. Serp and Affinity were equal in my eyes and thus, it shouldn't have mattered if I went for Affinity instead. I didn't consider the possible Survivor/SK angle enough and stubbornly went after Serp most likely because of my investigative result. Serp hinted at me for a while to consider this, but I turned a blind eye to it.

Brb, I'm fixing myself a HARD drink right now.

UncertainJakutten

  • Then you should get out of the way when I tell you
  • Do you not trust my aim?
Re: Touhou Remix: Game Over Man, Game Over!
« Reply #394 on: August 21, 2009, 02:06:49 AM »
Actually, yeah. I fucked up. Serp and Affinity were equal in my eyes and thus, it shouldn't have mattered if I went for Affinity instead. I didn't consider the possible Survivor/SK angle enough and stubbornly went after Serp most likely because of my investigative result. Serp hinted at me for a while to consider this, but I turned a blind eye to it.

Brb, I'm fixing myself a HARD drink right now.

To be honest, Serpy claiming to be a survivor that stole the music was BEYOND retarded. No offense but what the hell was that about?

And aww...I didn't mean to drive you to drinking Kiro :(.


Sodium

  • pew pew lasers
Re: Touhou Remix: Game Over Man, Game Over!
« Reply #395 on: August 21, 2009, 02:07:59 AM »
Kiro: Still acting like ZUN after the game is over. A truly dedicated player. =3

Oh yeah, I was tempted to point out how Kiro was "still alive" on Day 3, but that would've been stupid.

Edible

  • One part the F?hrer, one part the Pope
  • *
  • It's the inevitable return, baby
Re: Touhou Remix: Game Over Man, Game Over!
« Reply #396 on: August 21, 2009, 02:08:33 AM »
Rolling greens of spring
Echo in my sullen heart.
Kill them both; they suck.

Carthrat

  • HITLER OF LURKERS
  • MEIN MAIDENKAMPF
Re: Touhou Remix: Game Over Man, Game Over!
« Reply #397 on: August 21, 2009, 02:08:50 AM »
Swinginess makes the game unbalanced by definition. It's like a seesaw where one side has a huge rock, and the other side has many little rocks, and for each lynch, you remove a rock. >_>

I'm not sure what to think about the sudden death haiku doublekill...

Nietz

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  • Normal Person
Re: Touhou Remix: Game Over Man, Game Over!
« Reply #398 on: August 21, 2009, 02:09:34 AM »
His role was revealed as Townie Metalmixer. Granted, this was useless to you, but still
The problem here was that Metalmixer was his flavor descriptor, everyone else that flipped had an alignment, flavor and role one, even the Vanilla. It ended up as being misleading, even though the SK not killing night 1 helped it.

Yes, the game could have swung any way, but I still consider it unbalanced because the probability of it swinging against Town was a lot higher. Granted, Town didn't play any good, but Scum didn't have to play well either to secure the victory.

I'm not particularly annoyed though, since I was expecting some sort of crazy setup anyway.
Flavor was great too, I was just disappointed by how the Haiku Duel turned out (I mean, geez, even the bystanders were all better than the contestants.)

Brb, I'm fixing myself a HARD drink right now.
(*゚▽゚)つ凵 Cheers!

Re: Touhou Remix: Game Over Man, Game Over!
« Reply #399 on: August 21, 2009, 02:10:17 AM »
@UK: Ahh, I understand what you mean now. And no, the whole Jan-san != Sodium thing was entirely my fault, and I'm basically kicking myself now because I had no reason not to kill Serp, which would have instead lead to a 3:2 game which was still much more salvageable than the 2:2:1 could be.

@Kiro: Wow, I never knew that about you (the drinking thing). I personally have to force myself to drink half a glass of wine much less touching beer or such.

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Serp wasn't one shot. Though, I'm thinking that making him one shot and giving him complete bulletproof might make it more interesting.
I agree.

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Brb, I'm fixing myself a HARD drink right now.
Speaking of which, I'm gonna grab myself a SOFT drink

Nachtwanderlied

Re: Touhou Remix: Game Over Man, Game Over!
« Reply #400 on: August 21, 2009, 02:13:10 AM »
EDIT FOR ROU: Why did you create a role with so many powers unknown to the role-bearer?


i love you rou
« Last Edit: August 21, 2009, 02:15:12 AM by William Wordslayer, Champion of Khorne »

UncertainJakutten

  • Then you should get out of the way when I tell you
  • Do you not trust my aim?
Re: Touhou Remix: Game Over Man, Game Over!
« Reply #401 on: August 21, 2009, 02:14:50 AM »
Swinginess makes the game unbalanced by definition. It's like a seesaw where one side has a huge rock, and the other side has many little rocks, and for each lynch, you remove a rock. >_>

I'm not sure what to think about the sudden death haiku doublekill...

I wasn't entirely happy with it myself but I think it actually gave town a slight edge.

But, Pesco told me to, Edible told me to, a few others told me to...it seemed just as sound as any other solution.

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Yes, the game could have swung any way, but I still consider it unbalanced because the probability of it swinging against Town was a lot higher. Granted, Town didn't play any good, but Scum didn't have to play well either to secure the victory.

I disagree. Scum needed to be on it's toes to avoid a vig, a JoaT, and an SK depending on the mood.

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I'm not particularly annoyed though, since I was expecting some sort of crazy setup anyway.
Flavor was great too, I was just disappointed by how the Haiku Duel turned out (I mean, geez, even the bystanders were all better than the contestants.)

Yeah...anyone here that has watched Soul Eater should know I got that one face you make when you meet Excalibur.

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@UK: Ahh, I understand what you mean now. And no, the whole Jan-san != Sodium thing was entirely my fault, and I'm basically kicking myself now because I had no reason not to kill Serp, which would have instead lead to a 3:2 game which was still much more salvageable than the 2:2:1 could be.

Yep, a serp kill basically would have guaranteed a town win. Kiro, you, and Alice were practically confirmed.

See? Swingy ^-^.

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Speaking of which, I'm gonna grab myself a SOFT drink

And even this is superior to those haiku :P.

What was the reason behind having a huge number of power power Townie power power role.

Role madness. I tend to do set ups like that. This one though is probably the worst/most swingy I've done.

I'll have to play with SK theory a little more.


Jana

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Re: Touhou Remix: Game Over Man, Game Over!
« Reply #402 on: August 21, 2009, 02:17:48 AM »
Cut by Jan-san: wait a minute... GOD DAMN IT. I just now realized that my reason for not targeting Serp was invalid. It was because I had confused Jan-san for Xan and thought Sodium had replace Jan-san instead of Xan. which means the whole time I thought it was Jan-san's role that flipped scum during the Haiku-off. fuck me with a spork, I had been trying to reason all day 4 why SerpScum would target JanScum for the time he did. I really hate inactives now.
Yeah, that inactivity was pretty bad, but it cost town the game?
BRB Seppuku. Like I said, I'll stay away from Mafia for a good long time.

Kiro

  • Drinks: Everything
  • Sleeps: Anywhere
Re: Touhou Remix: Game Over Man, Game Over!
« Reply #403 on: August 21, 2009, 02:19:53 AM »
(*゚▽゚)つ凵 Cheers!

You rock! I'm feeling better already!

One more thing about the Cop role. Action wise, I played it the worst way possible, not being able to confirm anything until Day 3. That's pretty dastardly in a game like this where we might be in LYLO by then. You should have made it so you can Drink and Investigate at the same time like I had asked in my PM during Night 1.

Zakeri: Ah, I didn't realize you had that kind of a confusion with Jan-san != Sodium. *shrug* Sub optimal performance by both of us in Day 4.

UncertainJakutten

  • Then you should get out of the way when I tell you
  • Do you not trust my aim?
Re: Touhou Remix: Game Over Man, Game Over!
« Reply #404 on: August 21, 2009, 02:21:33 AM »
(*゚▽゚)つ凵 Cheers!

You rock! I'm feeling better already!

One more thing about the Cop role. Action wise, I played it the worst way possible, not being able to confirm anything until Day 3. That's pretty dastardly in a game like this where we might be in LYLO by then. You should have made it so you can Drink and Investigate at the same time like I had asked in my PM during Night 1.

Zakeri: Ah, I didn't realize you had that kind of a confusion with Jan-san != Sodium. *shrug* Sub optimal performance by both of us in Day 4.

If I did that, all players would do that. Using more than one action is always optimal. Therefore, it would have been a sane cop. I see sane cops as broken. So, no go. Now, what I should have done is made it more explicit that your buzz from drinking wears off after one night phase. That would probably have made the proper actions obvious.



Suwako Moriya

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Re: Touhou Remix: Game Over Man, Game Over!
« Reply #405 on: August 21, 2009, 02:23:31 AM »
Actually, yeah. I fucked up. Serp and Affinity were equal in my eyes and thus, it shouldn't have mattered if I went for Affinity instead. I didn't consider the possible Survivor/SK angle enough and stubbornly went after Serp most likely because of my investigative result. Serp hinted at me for a while to consider this, but I turned a blind eye to it.

Aha, I knew I didn't mention that I'd be up for an Affinity lynch for a reason.
The only thing this dimension does well is show its ass. We might as well applaud it! - Albert Burneko

Well, this game happened.

Nietz

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Re: Touhou Remix: Game Over Man, Game Over!
« Reply #406 on: August 21, 2009, 02:23:53 AM »
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I disagree. Scum needed to be on it's toes to avoid a vig, a JoaT, and an SK depending on the mood.
Those could hit Town as well, and statistically they would more likely do. That was what I meant about the game swinging more easily against Town.

Re: Touhou Remix: Game Over Man, Game Over!
« Reply #407 on: August 21, 2009, 02:25:07 AM »
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Yep, a serp kill basically would have guaranteed a town win. Kiro, you, and Alice were practically confirmed.
Thanks. That's really reassuring :V I'm certain I'll be able to recover from this faster than I did from my last game.

In any case, I guess it really is a combination of town failing and scum being awesome that decided this game in scum's favor, even in spite of being swingy.

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If I did that, all players would do that. Using more than one action is always optimal. Therefore, it would have been a sane cop. I see sane cops as broken. So, no go. Now, what I should have done is made it more explicit that your buzz from drinking wears off after one night phase. That would probably have made the proper actions obvious.
Yeah, the action would be to never drink and always assume you're insane cop. They're just as broken as sane cops, with the possible exception that scum might get a free mislynch out of it. There's really no good way to depower a cop outside of admiting to Bastardmoddery or limiting the number of chance or the times at when they can investigate.

UncertainJakutten

  • Then you should get out of the way when I tell you
  • Do you not trust my aim?
Re: Touhou Remix: Game Over Man, Game Over!
« Reply #408 on: August 21, 2009, 02:29:18 AM »
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I disagree. Scum needed to be on it's toes to avoid a vig, a JoaT, and an SK depending on the mood.
Those could hit Town as well, and statistically they would more likely do. That was what I meant of the game swinging more easily against Town.

Actually, the JoaT kill could NOT have hit town. It either did nothing or hit scum guaranteed. The vig I grant. Of course, as far as NK's go there was a jailkeeper who had a fair chance of preventing a kill.

There was also one sane investigation, a watch/roleblock (which could also prevent kills), a semi-global roleblock, a self protect...just...a lot of potential protections. Of course, it WAS only spread between 2 roles so yeah.

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Thanks. That's really reassuring :V I'm certain I'll be able to recover from this faster than I did from my last game.

Sorry :(. I don't want you to feel bad. It was an odd game. I can say stuff since I knew the set up, but from a player PoV it was a lot harder.

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In any case, I guess it really is a combination of town failing and scum being awesome that decided this game in scum's favor, even in spite of being swingy.

Yep.

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Yeah, the action would be to never drink and always assume you're insane cop. They're just as broken as sane cops, with the possible exception that scum might get a free mislynch out of it. There's really no good way to depower a cop outside of admiting to Bastardmoddery or limiting the number of chance or the times at when they can investigate.

Ooh, clever, you broke my role. I'll have to fix that.

Time to reach into the bastardly bag and make sober investigations paranoid if I use this role again ^-^. That'd make sense too :P.



Edible

  • One part the F?hrer, one part the Pope
  • *
  • It's the inevitable return, baby
Re: Touhou Remix Day 4! Boosh.
« Reply #409 on: August 21, 2009, 02:29:31 AM »

Sodium

  • pew pew lasers
Re: Touhou Remix: Game Over Man, Game Over!
« Reply #410 on: August 21, 2009, 02:37:10 AM »
So I heard Edible likes messing with people. =V

Kiro

  • Drinks: Everything
  • Sleeps: Anywhere
Re: Touhou Remix: Game Over Man, Game Over!
« Reply #411 on: August 21, 2009, 02:46:00 AM »
So I heard Edible likes messing with people. =V

That asshole was supposed to be Scum. Get your pansy ass into the next game.

Edible

  • One part the F?hrer, one part the Pope
  • *
  • It's the inevitable return, baby
Re: Touhou Remix: Game Over Man, Game Over!
« Reply #412 on: August 21, 2009, 02:54:42 AM »
That asshole was supposed to be Scum. Get your pansy ass into the next game.

I do feel like a tool for asking to be replaced before the game even started; let me offer apologies all around.  I received an email right after confirming that a number of my coworkers would be AWOL for the coming weeks, thus massively increasing my workload.

Work will continue kicking my ass for a different reasons over the coming month, but it's manageable enough for Mafia.  I already /inned for Zakeri's game.

Serp

  • It's all about overwhelming force and irresistible style
  • And in a pinch, style can slide
Re: Touhou Remix: Game Over Man, Game Over!
« Reply #413 on: August 21, 2009, 02:59:10 AM »
Quote from: UncertainKitten
You lynch Affinity, after Serp has claimed SK (which is what he SHOULD have done and didn't)

Eh?  Why should I have claimed SK?  From all the cries of "3 scum + 1 SK is imba!", I'm sure that Kiro and others would've assumed that I was either lying scum, or or that there was only one other scum, so they could afford to lynch me.  Not to mention the fact that a Survivor can win with the Town, but a Serial Killer must win against the Town.  I'd be advertising that my win condition was incompatable with Town anyway, so I'd be lynched...  Not to mention that Zakeri probably would've vigged me instead.  The best thing I could do was try and invalidate Kiro's cop result.

Quote from: UncertainKitten
Also, the SK had to be careful not to help scum too much of scum would reach their wincon first.

This is why I held back on my kills so much.  I was more worried about scum overwhelming us than I was of Town finishing off the scum too early.  I wouldn't have been able to end the game in less than four days, in any case, so there was no reason for me to kill more often than I did.  The only reason I attacked Roukanken N3 was that he had shown way too much suspicion of me and I had wanted to go into D4 as clean as I could without a vote on Suwako.  So much for that.

I think I played D4 as well as I possibly could have.  Anything else I could've done would've resulted in a lynch of me, so making a circus out of it was my best option.  If Town had been a little less confident of their cop result (and rightfully so), I could've won.  Regarding game balance, it was swingy as heck, but I don't think it was really imbalanced going in.  By D4, Town's only hope was for Zakeri to vig a non-Town, but the Town as a whole had to play pretty poorly to get to that point in the first place.
[15:13] <Sana> >:<

Kiro

  • Drinks: Everything
  • Sleeps: Anywhere
Re: Touhou Remix: Game Over Man, Game Over!
« Reply #414 on: August 21, 2009, 03:11:11 AM »
Serp, from my point of view, I thought you were Scum just trying to avoid a lynch. That was because you claimed Survivor which gives the impression that you don't want to die which is Scummy when I had a Guilty on you.

First, I made the mistake of not thinking far enough ahead that you could be a SK as per Nietz's roleclaim. Secondly, I didn't heed that kind of warning or your statements and blindly followed my now flawed investigation result.

But... if you claimed SK, first off, while it's obviously a stigma to us Townies, we almost certainly would know you wouldn't be lying about that. I don't play with SK/Survivor much, but I know that if you did that, Town's priority would be to at least lynch Scum first (I probably would have assumed there's only one left, but would have to chance that there could have been 2), then you because you're only solitary. Hell, Scum might off you for us so in the meanwhile, we'd just go for them. Which is what you would have wanted anyways. An unlikely alliance that never came forward. I'm positive I would have at least considered everything you said rather than mostly blindly passing it over (hey, I did read it a little). However, if I think it through more, if it was Zakeri/me, Suwako, and you left in Day 5, I might have reasonably been convinced Suwako was still Town and have blindly lynched you giving Scum a Day 5 win rather than a Day 4 win. Tough for both of us in the end.

That's pretty much why UK is saying theory wise, you should just claim SK truthfully in this case and use the Town's numbers to help thin out the Scum still existing.

UncertainJakutten

  • Then you should get out of the way when I tell you
  • Do you not trust my aim?
Re: Touhou Remix: Game Over Man, Game Over!
« Reply #415 on: August 21, 2009, 03:12:47 AM »
Regarding the SK claim. It really was your only chance to win though. Yes, you were likely to lose anyway, but honestly, with an SK claim you could point out that you HAD to work with town.

You don't want scorched earth, so you wouldn't want that scum left alive.

I had the full scenario planned out using player knowledge, and it worked for you...I just forgot the specifics. It was also mildly contrived though, not quite as much as town though.

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That's pretty much why UK is saying theory wise, you should just claim SK truthfully in this case and use the Town's numbers to help thin out the Scum still existing.

Thank you Kiro. This is exactly the scenario I thought of.


Re: Touhou Remix: Game Over Man, Game Over!
« Reply #416 on: August 21, 2009, 03:15:02 AM »
you could have claimed miller. Kiro's investigation on you wasn't even right anyway.

Serp

  • It's all about overwhelming force and irresistible style
  • And in a pinch, style can slide
Re: Touhou Remix: Game Over Man, Game Over!
« Reply #417 on: August 21, 2009, 03:30:23 AM »
So, if I had claimed SK, then Town and Scum would basically end up playing a game of Chicken over who would want to take me out.  That could've worked out in my favor, I suppose.  I don't think my odds would've been any better with that strategy, though I'll have to keep that sort of thing in mind in future games.  This is my first time with a solo victory condition role (and it was quite enjoyable, by the way).

Quote from: Zakeri
you could have claimed miller. Kiro's investigation on you wasn't even right anyway.

Oh, yeah, I had considered this as well.  My final reason for deciding against it was that claiming Miller would be exactly the sort of thing scum would do in LyLo.
[15:13] <Sana> >:<

Kiro

  • Drinks: Everything
  • Sleeps: Anywhere
Re: Touhou Remix: Game Over Man, Game Over!
« Reply #418 on: August 21, 2009, 03:40:47 AM »
Yea, SK is kinda the shit-out-of-luck role. Quite a few things not in your control have to work in your favor as you head into LYLO. And technically they did. But it didn't go through. A bit of inexperience on both our parts although it still could have worked out to a haiku duel off which looked like your only hope as well. I don't think you can ask for much more than that, especially when you are beholden to nobody but yourself.

I will say good game though. If Suwako is indeed Kilga, I got taken advantage of again. All I can do is suck it up and play the next game. BRING IT!!!

Sodium

  • pew pew lasers
Re: Touhou Remix: Game Over Man, Game Over!
« Reply #419 on: August 21, 2009, 03:44:56 AM »
Serp:
...So then you claimed SURVIVOR, which obviously scum wouldn't claim either. >_>