Author Topic: Gensokyo Worker's Facepalm Mafia - Topic 2, Game Over, Man, Game Over  (Read 74202 times)

Affinity

  • hoho
  • ... but I have promises to keep.
Re: Gensokyo Worker's Union Mafia - Topic 2, Day 4
« Reply #150 on: April 25, 2009, 04:05:32 AM »
@Zakeri:

Why would you do an analysis of donut's actions at all in this post?  Are you trying to justify his actions?  Because it doesn't seem to help much at all in terms of scumhunting, and the fact that you seem to have voted Nietz for the sole reason of setup speculation is rather odd.

##Vote: Zakeri

?q

  • Lurking librarian
  • and moe sound effect
Re: Gensokyo Worker's Union Mafia - Topic 2, Day 4
« Reply #151 on: April 25, 2009, 04:49:18 AM »
Posting to say I fail at life and should have time to sit down with this game tomorrow later today.

Also apologizing.

Edible

  • One part the F?hrer, one part the Pope
  • *
  • It's the inevitable return, baby
Re: Gensokyo Worker's Union Mafia - Topic 2, Day 4
« Reply #152 on: April 25, 2009, 06:00:43 AM »
UK thoughts:

Apologies are strange.  Early hop on wrathie here.  Not much else Day 1 that looks strange.

Day 2 has some Alice Speculation™ but that was the order of the day.  Another push for a wrathie lynch there.  Case on Nietz here, followed by case on pesco here.  Hrm.  Not sure what to make of that.

Day 3 UK was naturally very sparse, given how quickly we blasted Nietz.  More apologetic moe recently, though that comment smacks of UK tsundere we're used to.  Wuh.

I dunno, feels kinda like we're barking up the wrong tree here.  It may just be The Job™.

Moving on:

##vote wrathie

Alice here pretty much sums up my thoughts on wrathie - ludicrously suspicious, and it's hard to say how much can be attributed to wrathie's wrathiness.  I don't want him around for LYLO if it comes to that.  I wouldn't mind getting him out of the way now, either.  wrathie's not really the type that'll clear himself through content.

In non-wrathie news, my jury's still out on Affinity and Zakeri-flavored-donut.  I'll give 'em another readthrough tomorrow at some point; would like to see some more thoughts from both, especially Zakeri.

FinnKaenbyou

  • Formerly Roukanken
  • *
  • blub blub nya
Re: Gensokyo Worker's Union Mafia - Topic 2, Day 4
« Reply #153 on: April 25, 2009, 06:12:43 AM »
Alright, question.

Quote from: Nietz on Wrathie
My opinion of you is the same it always is: Your reasoning is not clear and you are not being very helpful to town. However, you were like this all other games and were town, so you have the meta point in your favor. I also believe you are a very easy target to mislynch, which is why I was suspicious of Alice going against you.
UK was also attacking you as obvscum, which somehow I didn't pay attention to on Day because I was focusing on SP and Alice. She also seems very eager to go for your lynch today, which doesn't sit well with me.
Let's look at this from the perspective of a Mafioso. Why would Nietz want to say this? There are four possibilities:
- Wrathie and UK are scum, and through this conflict at least one of them will look Town. This is probably the least likely of the four.
- UK is scum, and by turning on her here Nietz hopes to gain credit with the Town. Despite claiming this suspicion of her Nietz never followed it up with a vote, focusing his attention mostly on Donut.
- Wrathie is scum, and Nietz wants us to stop attacking him and mislynch UK. Nietz gave Wrathie a free pass from the start based on meta and never really showed suspicion of him.
- Wrathie and UK are both Town, and he was simply aiming for some sort of mislynch. Risky, but I don't think anyone outright DISAPPROVED of a Wrathie lynch.

Want to hear more from these players to clarify this (when they have the time, in UK's case).

Also.
Quote from: Zakeri
Again, practically every sign points towards Neitz being Mafia (Cop Screw + Framer = redundant and screwy, Framer suggests there is a cop, ETC.) Which is why I didn't take my vote off even though I was tempted to.
So in other words, you had no actual suspicions of Nietz? Mind explaining why you thought he was Town?

Want to see something constructive and useful from Zakeri today. Yesterday was a no-brainer after the Cop result came out, but now we actually need to think.

No vote until some of these questions get answered.

Re: Gensokyo Worker's Union Mafia - Topic 2, Day 4
« Reply #154 on: April 25, 2009, 07:02:34 AM »
I'll still have to look over Wrathie and Affinity in detail, since my gut is leaning towards them. Unfortunately, I have a lot of work to do tomorrow, and I need to get up early, so I should go to bed now. I'll be able to do more on this by the time tomorrow night rolls around (real night, not phase night).

I will address this:

Quote
Mind explaining why you thought he was Town?

The appeal Neitz made gave me a feeling that, if I reacted without thought, would have gotten me to take my vote off. There was no logic that would suggest he could be town.

The short answer is "I didn't."

FinnKaenbyou

  • Formerly Roukanken
  • *
  • blub blub nya
Re: Gensokyo Worker's Union Mafia - Topic 2, Day 4
« Reply #155 on: April 25, 2009, 07:36:32 AM »
The appeal Neitz made gave me a feeling that, if I reacted without thought, would have gotten me to take my vote off. There was no logic that would suggest he could be town.
Agreed. So why make such a big fuss about how he could be miller or Alice could be scum and Serp insane and so on?

And another point:
Quote from: Zakeri
If I were part of that discussion, I would actually have been on Roukanken's side, rather than trying to lynch him, but that's just me.
I really don't like this sentence. It feels like you're trying to give yourself credit for a discussion you didn't take part in.

WRATHIE_Beatrice

  • soujiko x yousuke is my otp
  • I will repeat it, in RED
Re: Gensokyo Worker's Union Mafia - Topic 2, Day 4
« Reply #156 on: April 25, 2009, 08:39:16 AM »
I Am obvscum  ;)


Alright, question.
Let's look at this from the perspective of a Mafioso. Why would Nietz want to say this? There are four possibilities:
- Wrathie and UK are scum, and through this conflict at least one of them will look Town. This is probably the least likely of the four.
- UK is scum, and by turning on her here Nietz hopes to gain credit with the Town. Despite claiming this suspicion of her Nietz never followed it up with a vote, focusing his attention mostly on Donut.
- Wrathie is scum, and Nietz wants us to stop attacking him and mislynch UK. Nietz gave Wrathie a free pass from the start based on meta and never really showed suspicion of him.
- Wrathie and UK are both Town, and he was simply aiming for some sort of mislynch. Risky, but I don't think anyone outright DISAPPROVED of a Wrathie lynch.

Want to hear more from these players to clarify this (when they have the time, in UK's case).

I believe Nietz meant it to be that i was too easy a lynch to hop on and to get away with it.
Probably survived till this day just because of that fact, if you are going to lynch me on that, well i'd say it's just a raw deal life threw at me as there is no defense i can give for that.


@Edible and Alice: Like i said, no defense if those are the points that are causing you guys to call me scum.

Re-read on progress but no gurantees there

Defiant of Shrine Maiden Ver. 2

Kilgamayan

  • True
  • *
  • The Real Treasure Is You
    • Let's Play Super Marisa World
Re: Gensokyo Worker's Union Mafia - Topic 2, Day 4
« Reply #157 on: April 25, 2009, 01:05:39 PM »
Let's Play Danmaku Detective Game: Vote Count

Zakeri (1): Affinity
wrathie (1): Edible

Not voting: Everyone else

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. You have ~62 hours remaining.
[22:40:12] <Drake> "guys i donwloaded esod but its not workan"
[22:40:21] <Drake> REPORTED
[22:40:25] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> PROBATED
[22:40:30] <Drake> ORGASM
[22:40:32] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> FUCK YEAH

[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

?q

  • Lurking librarian
  • and moe sound effect
Re: Gensokyo Worker's Union Mafia - Topic 2, Day 4
« Reply #158 on: April 25, 2009, 01:55:52 PM »
Let's get this over with.  Daywunalysis.

1. Edible - Iku Nagae - You keep posting jokeposts like pesco, but every now and again you show that you have an eye on the game, which is... an improvement, I suppose.  But your personality is back. *shrug*
Post 150 looks scummy, but... it's pretty factually accurate.  Iunno, you're not jumping out at me, but I don't see anything wrong with you :v

3. UncertainKitten - Rin Kaenbyou - Perhaps one thing in her favor is pesco's vote in 80.
Quote from: pesco 80
UK's talk about L-3 is a strange one. Edible is at L-3 and she goes to put Pesco at L-3 too. I'm curious about how this could be crumbing for future vote analysis.
I don't understand what pesco is getting at here... which is about normal for pesco and expected of pesco-scum.
I get a pro-Town read from 94.  This, however, gives me MAJOR scummy vibes--
Quote from: UK 142
And hey, I'm a good cook and reasonably loyal Azn.
Nah, kidding.  UK said a lot of things I'm noticing as I'm rereading in 142, very good.

4. u? - Reisen Udongein Inaba - I'm noticing a serious lack of me in this topic.  Things have been getting hectic recently, many apologies.

5. Zakeri - Hong Meiling - First warning sign is 76, with donut's crackpot vote on me.  But that remedies itself with 128, where he sticks to the stances he had previously.  181 deadline voting Alice looks scummy, but that could just be donut being himself.  Looking back at this as I proof this post, I see I don't have many notes here, but I didn't get a scummy feel from donut.

7. wrathie - Sakuya Izayoi - Post 116 is why I really don't want you in the endgame... ever.  Latching onto Affinity's reasons for voting Kanako in 120 does nothing to make him endearing, nor does his lack of opinions on everyone else.  And then he jumps on Rou in 134, but it doesn't follow from the rest of his post :v  The catch there is Rou did not have a wagon on him at the time, so it doesn't seem opportunistic.  wrathie 147 looks like righteous indignation, which contributes to a read of wrathie being himself, not Mafia.
Nietz 166 also warned against wrathie being in the endgame, which definitely seems like he likes the idea of lynching him eventually.  This also suggests that wrathie is more likely Town (though I'm still not sure about letting wrathie in the endgame).

10. Roukanken - Youmu Konpaku -
Quote from: Rou 79
If any of you would like to clarify your cases/start giving a damn, please do so now.

I do agree with donut's assessment of your 125 - it's not especially impressive in retrospect, and looks like you're going on the easy wagon.
Outside the stuff about A.Margatroid waffling, your 154 isn't very appealing - appealing to S.Peroxide's meta, carrying on the pesconoia about there being a Lyncher in the game(!!), and kinda giving up on wrathie (though I don't disagree with your assessment).  Your twist leaving Alice because of suspicion on pesco (198) reads as very pro-Town.

11. Affinity - Utsuho Reiuzi - 110 bothers me, and not just knowing you were accusing two Townies in retrospect.  The accusations seem rather exaggerated ("horrible and really grating", accusing S.Peroxide of selectively attacking lurkers when it's so easy to forget you exist, etc.).
Affinity 152 jumps out at me because... well, you posted it.  It seems... very short considering what you missed.  Telling Kanako to spring for a replacement in 162 while voting him for being scum rings an alarm bell.  Piling onto S.Peroxide at the last minute (251) seems forced.

12. Alice Margatroid - Komachi Onozuka - Now that a certain game is over, I can say that Town Alice also lurks.  (I can also say that it's not implausible for a game to have two Doctors, though this setup seems pretty imbalanced compared to Jailbreak.)
Anyway, 131 is terribly waffletastic, though I endorse the wrathie vote.  pesco trying to deadline lynch you... probably gives you Town points, since while scum can daytalk, pesco was pulling out whatever stops he could to push your lynch.  Your opinions on people are for the most part unconvinced gut Town in 174, but you place your vote on S.Peroxide near deadline, even though he had no votes.  Mixed signals.
Add on the Cop+Doc+Doc setup meta, and to be quite honest I have no idea what to make of you!

These reads are subject to change as I read the second half of the game.

?q

  • Lurking librarian
  • and moe sound effect
Re: Gensokyo Worker's Union Mafia - Topic 2, Day 4
« Reply #159 on: April 25, 2009, 01:56:41 PM »
EBWOP for Rou:  The argument with pesco doesn't look staged.  I'll take it as a pro-Town read.

?q

  • Lurking librarian
  • and moe sound effect
Re: Gensokyo Worker's Union Mafia - Topic 2, Day 4
« Reply #160 on: April 25, 2009, 02:57:48 PM »
Okay, looking at the rest of the game.  All posts in this thread start at 500 for me.

1. Edible - Iku Nagae - I do not see 283 as scummy now, because two Doctors in this setup, etc.  I'm reading 326 as thorough and pro-Town.  Your responses to wrathie and your observance of Alice's limited protects looks Town.

3. UncertainKitten - Rin Kaenbyou - See previous wall, mostly.  Also, 60 hours a week?  Yeow. 

4. u? - Reisen Udongein Inaba - My play through this game has been really, really horrible ;;>.>

5. Zakeri - Hong Meiling - And here's where donut jumps off the boat and becomes useless.  However, I don't see his uselessness as necessarily scummy in this case; it doesn't seem faked.  The willingness of both Mafiosi to push him into a noose is noted.  I don't share Rou's concern about Zukari trying to brush off the Nietz lynch.

7. wrathie - Sakuya Izayoi - I do not agree with 369.  At all.  But at least you're looking in each direction.  I can say... basically the same thing about 390.  510 could be construed as jumping off a sinking ship and onto a growing wagon, but that doesn't fit with my overall opinion of you.  How on earth you could have missed that pesco was claiming Remirya 4srs (543) is anyone's guess.

10. Roukanken - Youmu Konpaku - Rou-RAGE 311 and onward is made of massive overreaction and not quite thinking the situation through.  But I don't see it as scummy.
Rou pointing out a Nietz+pesco connection in 389 basically cements him as Town.

11. Affinity - Utsuho Reiuzi - I can't get a read on your vote on Edible in 309.  324 features you playing both sides of donut vs. Rou of RAGE, and generally looks scummy to me.  In 330 I see Affinity still playing both sides of it while affirming Alice+Kanako, which is a null tell at best to me.  I think I'm starting to tunnel on you, but I'm just not seeing anything jumping out saying HEY I'M PRO-TOWN.  I disagree with your opinion of donut's AtEs in 364, and see the continued push on donut as scummy.
I would like a clarification of Affinity 379.
When pesco+NEETz finally starts to come out D2, the most you say on the subject is--
Quote from: Affinity 400
Nietz doesn't seem to be answering Rou's question very well; e.g repeating your reasons for the other people you have looked at =/= reasons for not looking at pesco.
--and then you continue with other people, which is an inconveniently placed nulltell.

12. Alice Margatroid - Komachi Onozuka - This whole business with your claim and so forth is intensely fishy.  But Kanako said he found you innocent, which means you-Inv/NK-immune-Godfather either pulled a lot of strings masterfully N1 (you puppeteer, you) or Ockham's Razor says you're what you say you are.  Considering your jump on the pescobunny wagon early on, I'm pretty much sold on you-Town.

I would think that now would be an excellent time to massclaim, but if someone has any role that would be relevant, I would be rather disappointed in them for not claiming already.

So.  ##Vote: Affinity (L-4) for the Wii.

Affinity

  • hoho
  • ... but I have promises to keep.
Re: Gensokyo Worker's Union Mafia - Topic 2, Day 4
« Reply #161 on: April 25, 2009, 03:27:27 PM »
@u-mu:

110 - Accusing two townies mistakenly is not a scumtell; it's the reasoning that matters.  And the reasoning is fine, really; their plays was quite scummy at the time.  The "so easy to forget you exist" argument you put out is also rather fallacious considering that I have not posted yet at that time.

Reasoning for S.P vote was in 110 and in 162, and saying what was already said would be rather redundant.  As for forced, just because I put in less words in my voting post doesn't mean a single thing.

Also, I would like to show me how I was being two sided in the Rou vs. Donut debate.  To my knowledge, my stance was the popular one; Rou is wrong about setup speculation but not necessarily scummy for it, while donut was scummy for jumping on the wagon so darned prematurely with bad reasoning.  Again, I do not see where you're coming from with this line of argument, and it is bordering on the lines of misrep.

Lastly, your questioning of 379 shows that you have not been reading the thread as closely as you could have; you missed donut's questioning of me which shows something.  I don't like the case on me at the moment; Zaknut HAS been scummy for obvious reasons throughout the game, to the point where the townieness attributed to him is entirely based on gut or something flipped scum have done; which is misleading, though the latter is partially valid.  And AtE was hardly the only reason I voted donut on Day Two; note the jump onto Rou.

Affinity

  • hoho
  • ... but I have promises to keep.
Re: Gensokyo Worker's Union Mafia - Topic 2, Day 4
« Reply #162 on: April 25, 2009, 03:35:02 PM »
EBWOP: Nothing to add on about Zakeri considering that all he did in D3 was to attempt to summarize donut's actions (for unknown reasons).  Also,

Quote
that's all I have for right now, since I got distracted by looking at Donut's play and trying to see how Pesco got lynched.

This pracitically answers my questions and shows signs of him putting up a fascade.  Rest of the post was just defense, and the next was just a generalization of reasons; the only one he specified was the one on setup spec.  Thus, despite the actions of flipped scum the past two days, my vote on him stays until he puts forward a clear view of who is scum and why.

FinnKaenbyou

  • Formerly Roukanken
  • *
  • blub blub nya
Re: Gensokyo Worker's Union Mafia - Topic 2, Day 4
« Reply #163 on: April 25, 2009, 04:57:54 PM »
Probably survived till this day just because of that fact, if you are going to lynch me on that, well i'd say it's just a raw deal life threw at me as there is no defense i can give for that.
Anyone else noticed that Wrathie's defense has jumped from 'OMGWTFRAAAAAAAAAAGE' to 'Thanks I'll put up some stuff later to help out' to 'Forget it, I have no defense to these arguments, I'm fin with being lynched'? :/

Will be paying close attention to Zakeri's first proper contribution, if it ever appears.

Kilgamayan

  • True
  • *
  • The Real Treasure Is You
    • Let's Play Super Marisa World
Re: Gensokyo Worker's Union Mafia - Topic 2, Day 4
« Reply #164 on: April 25, 2009, 05:36:16 PM »
Let's Play Danmaku Detective Game: Vote Count

Zakeri (1): Affinity
wrathie (1): Edible
Affinity (1): Youmu

Not voting: Everyone else

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. You have ~58.5 hours remaining.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2009, 04:28:44 AM by Kilgamayan »
[22:40:12] <Drake> "guys i donwloaded esod but its not workan"
[22:40:21] <Drake> REPORTED
[22:40:25] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> PROBATED
[22:40:30] <Drake> ORGASM
[22:40:32] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> FUCK YEAH

[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

WRATHIE_Beatrice

  • soujiko x yousuke is my otp
  • I will repeat it, in RED
Re: Gensokyo Worker's Union Mafia - Topic 2, Day 4
« Reply #165 on: April 26, 2009, 01:37:28 AM »
Anyone else noticed that Wrathie's defense has jumped from 'OMGWTFRAAAAAAAAAAGE' to 'Thanks I'll put up some stuff later to help out' to 'Forget it, I have no defense to these arguments, I'm fin with being lynched'? :/

Will be paying close attention to Zakeri's first proper contribution, if it ever appears.

correction, from the start of pesco's vote on me on Day 3, that was my defense as it is the truth.

life is throwing me a raw deal... so... yea

Defiant of Shrine Maiden Ver. 2

?lice Bl?ckb?rn

  • The real Alice Blackbarn!
  • *
  • "OH DESIRE"
Re: Gensokyo Worker's Union Mafia - Topic 2, Day 4
« Reply #166 on: April 26, 2009, 04:30:23 AM »
Still not sure what to think of wrathie. Any read I get on him is inconclusive, and if nobody more suspicious comes up today I support a wrathie lynch simply because I do not want to have to deal with him in endgame. The fact that he's gone from OMGWTFRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE to "I basically have no defence" is worrying as well. I'm not sure what his life has to do with his defences, and I'm not sure what you mean by this sentence:

Quote from: wrathie
correction, from the start of pesco's vote on me on Day 3, that was my defense as it is the truth.
Antecedents are your friend, you know. What is the truth? Are you admitting to being scum or what?

Zaknut needs to exist. At this moment the only thing that's keeping me from voting for him is Nietz's vote for him over pesco. On the other hand, we had pesco claiming that he wouldn't mind deadline voting him and staying on wrathie instead...hm.

As for Affinity...his Edible vote in 309 seems largely justified (selective meta useage is all kinds of argh) and I'm curious as to what umu finds fault with in 364. Tbqh, I'm not seeing Affinity-scum at the moment. I personally find Zaknut far more likely to be scum atm.
"Oh, great. Another game where I get screwed by Kilga." ~ Carthrat

Edible

  • One part the F?hrer, one part the Pope
  • *
  • It's the inevitable return, baby
Re: Gensokyo Worker's Union Mafia - Topic 2, Day 4
« Reply #167 on: April 26, 2009, 07:40:50 AM »
I guess Zakeri's this never materialized.  Alas.

Anyway, Affinity/Zakeri readthrough didn't produce anything particularly interesting.  Zakeri's felt kinda wishywashy, but he hasn't said all that much pertaining to the game and yesterday was what boiled down to a free lynch on Neitz anyway.  Points on Affinity have already been raised, though I'm feeling a different lynch more than ever today.

wrathie on the other hand has continued to state that he's basically giving up, which certainly looks like a scumtell to me.  wrathie, are you scum? :V

I would think that now would be an excellent time to massclaim, but if someone has any role that would be relevant, I would be rather disappointed in them for not claiming already.

I don't really see the point, to be honest.

FinnKaenbyou

  • Formerly Roukanken
  • *
  • blub blub nya
Re: Gensokyo Worker's Union Mafia - Topic 2, Day 4
« Reply #168 on: April 26, 2009, 10:27:27 AM »
from the start of pesco's vote on me on Day 3
Mind explaining why Pesco's vote was the one to tip the scale?

Meanwhile, Zaknut has failed to produce.

##Vote: Zakeri

WRATHIE_Beatrice

  • soujiko x yousuke is my otp
  • I will repeat it, in RED
Re: Gensokyo Worker's Union Mafia - Topic 2, Day 4
« Reply #169 on: April 26, 2009, 02:37:24 PM »
no, not giving up on Mafia, more like sch has a pirority and etc.

Pesco's vote was the one to tip the scale as previously i was voted for waffling and etc but pesco was the first to bring up the issues of my keyboard, etc, which I can't defend legitimately, thus not wanting to provide a defense and such.

If all of ya is gonna just stand by that and vote me for being PMS and Non-Pms the next, how do you expect me to defend myself when it is RL that is rearing it's head.

and no Edible, I am not scum.

Defiant of Shrine Maiden Ver. 2

UncertainJakutten

  • Then you should get out of the way when I tell you
  • Do you not trust my aim?
Re: Gensokyo Worker's Union Mafia - Topic 2, Day 4
« Reply #170 on: April 26, 2009, 04:36:33 PM »
I'm kinda around. What do I owe you all? I'm not seeing much to respond to as I've been either out or tired. But I'm sure I'm missing something here. So, I'd like to know what I should be doing? I guess I can reread donut/Zakeri at some point today.


FinnKaenbyou

  • Formerly Roukanken
  • *
  • blub blub nya
Re: Gensokyo Worker's Union Mafia - Topic 2, Day 4
« Reply #171 on: April 26, 2009, 07:41:14 PM »
Stupid point I realised earlier and thought I may as well bring up.

Why did the Mafia hit the cop?

Alice's plan revolved around the idea that the Mafia wouldn't hit the cop, assuming he'd be protected. This plan makes sense, since Doc would obviously want to keep cop alive in order to create another confirmed Townie.

So how did the Mafia know?

It's possible they were going for a WIFOM of 'do we hit the doc or the cop', but if they hit the doc the cop still gets their investigation. There are only two real reasons that the Mafia would be so insistent on trying to kill the cop in a dangerous situation like this:

- They're aware that one of their own is about to be investigated and need to shut the cop up. This didn't happen on N2, but there was very little that would have stopped a Nietz lynch if this happened anyway.

- They know for a fact that the cop won't be protected.

As a question, how many successful protections has Alice made this round? That's right, one - himself. And what exactly does the Mafia have to compensate for two Doctors? We've seen no sign of a vig, a blocker, a hitman, anything.

Of course, there is the possibility that there aren't two doctors after all. The cop result on Alice was taken to clear him, but we never ruled out the possibility of a Godfather.

I'm not saying that Alice is obvscum, but it's just worth noting that maybe cleared him too soon, and the cop death should at least be raising a few eyebrows. Add this to the fact he specifically said that he had a limited number of protections (easily giving him an escape clause if the protections suddenly stopped) and a fake docclaim might not be too far out.

##FoS: Alice Margarine

Still, I'm not reading three scum in this setup, so I see no objections to further pressing Zaknut/Wrathie for information.

?lice Bl?ckb?rn

  • The real Alice Blackbarn!
  • *
  • "OH DESIRE"
Re: Gensokyo Worker's Union Mafia - Topic 2, Day 4
« Reply #172 on: April 26, 2009, 10:29:44 PM »
@Rou: first off, the very task of pulling off a successful protect is a bit of a WIFOM in itsself, as you have to guess who scum will target each night. It's not that unusual for a given game to have only one successful doc protect, and we've only had 3 nights so far, so one protect across 3 nights really isn't that bad. In any order, as you said, we have people around who actually are being suspicious (for reasons that are independent of the setup), so I'd rather take care of them right now.

@Zaknut: I want contributions. Now.

##Vote: Zakeri

@wrathie: Fine. So you have no defence. Wonderful. I see you also have no offence whatsoever. Who do you think is scum, and why? If you can't defend yourself and you can't scumhunt, why are we keeping you alive?
"Oh, great. Another game where I get screwed by Kilga." ~ Carthrat

Kilgamayan

  • True
  • *
  • The Real Treasure Is You
    • Let's Play Super Marisa World
Re: Gensokyo Worker's Union Mafia - Topic 2, Day 4
« Reply #173 on: April 26, 2009, 11:33:53 PM »
Let's Play Danmaku Detective Game: Vote Count

Zakeri (3): Affinity, Roukanken, Alice Margatroid
wrathie (1): Edible
Affinity (1): Youmu

Not voting: Zakeri, wrathie, UncertainKitten

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. You have ~28.5 hours remaining.

Affinity, Zakeri and Youmu will all be prodded for inactivity as soon as this post has been made.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2009, 03:23:07 AM by Kilgamayan »
[22:40:12] <Drake> "guys i donwloaded esod but its not workan"
[22:40:21] <Drake> REPORTED
[22:40:25] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> PROBATED
[22:40:30] <Drake> ORGASM
[22:40:32] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> FUCK YEAH

[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

?q

  • Lurking librarian
  • and moe sound effect
Re: Gensokyo Worker's Union Mafia - Topic 2, Day 4
« Reply #174 on: April 27, 2009, 12:19:51 AM »
@Rou:  Why do you think the Mafia hit Kiro last night?  Kiro was someone who was not going to be protected.  So in the other argumentary direction, they're basically waiting for Alice to run out of charges.

Unfortunately I've got a queue of things I have to do --today-- and I've kept this game low on it.  Apologies for the inconvenience; I'll respond to Affinity as soon as I can.

Edible

  • One part the F?hrer, one part the Pope
  • *
  • It's the inevitable return, baby
Re: Gensokyo Worker's Union Mafia - Topic 2, Day 4
« Reply #175 on: April 27, 2009, 12:21:22 AM »
@UK: Any sort of analysis is fine, but I'd appreciate your input on Affinity (see u?'s case) and Zakeri (see Affinity's case).  A readthrough of either or both works.  I'd ask you to look over wrathie but that's basically a lost cause. :/

@Rou: There's another possible explanation, but it's not worth pursuing today.  Alice really should be considered as good as town.  And, like you said, we have better targets today.

@Kilga: IIRC, Zakeri's been silent for almost 48 hours now.  Will this produce a modkill, or is it only 24 hours from your prod?

@wrathie: Perhaps I should have spelled this out, but me asking you if you're scum is supposed to be a good segue to you explaining who YOU think is scum, not talking about... whatever it is you talk about that isn't scumhunting.

I'm willing to give Zakeri the benefit of the doubt until he posts today or gets modkilled.  I'll make up my mind about him after whatever it is he produces (assuming he does so before we run out of time).  Until then, I'll keep my lonely vote on the other big non-producer today.

UncertainJakutten

  • Then you should get out of the way when I tell you
  • Do you not trust my aim?
Re: Gensokyo Worker's Union Mafia - Topic 2, Day 4
« Reply #176 on: April 27, 2009, 12:26:00 AM »
Quote
@UK: Any sort of analysis is fine, but I'd appreciate your input on Affinity (see u?'s case) and Zakeri (see Affinity's case).  A readthrough of either or both works.  I'd ask you to look over wrathie but that's basically a lost cause. :/

Will do either tonight or tomorrow night. Depends on how much anime I'm catching up on.

Also, why is Affinity both voting and not voting? And where am I?

Anyway, wrathie is wrathie. I've read a bit of him earlier IIRC, and he was just...scummy.


?q

  • Lurking librarian
  • and moe sound effect
Re: Gensokyo Worker's Union Mafia - Topic 2, Day 4
« Reply #177 on: April 27, 2009, 02:26:19 AM »
Okay, let's go.

Quote
110 - Accusing two townies mistakenly is not a scumtell; it's the reasoning that matters.  And the reasoning is fine, really; their plays was quite scummy at the time.
No, it's exaggerated.
Quote from: Affinity 110
SodiumPeroxide's self-pity (e.g "I shouldn't be the one talking") is horrible and reallyg rating;
Horrible and really grating?  Maybe to you.
Quote from: Affinity 110
trying to get a free pass out of criticizing someone else for what you are already doing by stating it yourself.
Most people do this.  It avoids tu quoque.
Quote from: Affinity 110
Also, lol at the "UK's voting mishap thing is the best thing we have so far" and him not even bothering to pursue it.
The bolded is a misread.  The actual quote was
Quote from: Kanako 102
-u? getting flack from the UK case sort of bothers me considering the fact that it was better than anything else we had at the moment.
By Post 102, the UK thing was over.  So yes, this is a scummy misquote.

----

Quote from: Affinity 661
The "so easy to forget you exist" argument you put out is also rather fallacious considering that I have not posted yet at that time.
Um.  No?  Are you seriously going to tell me that you had a valid point in chastising S.Peroxide for not noticing you were in the game, when you hadn't posted at all - considering donut and Kanako HAD posted in the game at that time?  Seriously.

-----

Quote from: Affinity 661
Reasoning for S.P vote was in 110 and in 162, and saying what was already said would be rather redundant.  As for forced, just because I put in less words in my voting post doesn't mean a single thing.
I disagree.

Quote from: Affinity 661
Also, I would like to show me how I was being two sided in the Rou vs. Donut debate.  To my knowledge, my stance was the popular one; Rou is wrong about setup speculation but not necessarily scummy for it, while donut was scummy for jumping on the wagon so darned prematurely with bad reasoning.
lol. The "popular" stance.
But that's more or less correct.

-----

Quote from: Affinity 661
Lastly, your questioning of 379 shows that you have not been reading the thread as closely as you could have; you missed donut's questioning of me which shows something.
No, I didn't miss it.  I was more interested in
Quote from: Affinity 379
And throwing down a vote is fine, really.
...for your (second) deadline vote, which just sounds bad.  About as bad as your "welp, next down the list VOTE" that came with your S.Peroxide deadline vote.

-----

Quote from: Affinity 661
I don't like the case on me at the moment; Zaknut HAS been scummy for obvious reasons throughout the game, to the point where the townieness attributed to him is entirely based on gut or something flipped scum have done; which is misleading, though the latter is partially valid.  And AtE was hardly the only reason I voted donut on Day Two; note the jump onto Rou.
No kidding, you don't like the case on you.  I like how you discredit intuitive reads as you have; I'm finding them more accurate than poring word-by-word over each post.  I personally didn't mind the jump on Rou and don't see it as a strong point in your favor.

-----

But you did convince me to look at what the Mafia did for donut.
--pesco 335:  words words words nulltell
--Nietz 345:  donut is scummy and stuff but I'd rather not vote him because other people are
--Nietz 361:  Presses donut for giving up.
--Nietz 397 (on pesco):  words words words nulltell
--Nietz 402:  Votes donut, saying he doesn't want to give up on the donut wagon even though it came first and it's starting to cool down.
--Nietz 427:  Asks Edible why he eased up on donut because of his meta.

Without reading the second thread, I can see a possible relationship, but not a good one with Nietz around (especially considering Nietz was pushing donut's lynch as competition to pesco's).

On a related note, if Zakeri is Town, so is Edible via Kilga's momentum-shift tell thingy.

Kilgamayan

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  • *
  • The Real Treasure Is You
    • Let's Play Super Marisa World
Re: Gensokyo Worker's Union Mafia - Topic 2, Day 4
« Reply #178 on: April 27, 2009, 03:23:54 AM »
Edible: 24 hours from prod.

UK: Thanks. Vote count's been fixed.
[22:40:12] <Drake> "guys i donwloaded esod but its not workan"
[22:40:21] <Drake> REPORTED
[22:40:25] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> PROBATED
[22:40:30] <Drake> ORGASM
[22:40:32] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> FUCK YEAH

[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

Re: Gensokyo Worker's Union Mafia - Topic 2, Day 4
« Reply #179 on: April 27, 2009, 07:36:02 AM »
So here's what I say is going to happen when I do a reread. I say I'm going to sit right down, listen to some nice music, and organize my thoughts while combing through all of the posts people have made.

Now, here's what happens when I do a reread. I watch touhou music videos and play puyo pop. Then, once midnight roles around, I get tired enough that I no longer have energy to spend on videogames, and eventually I get around to combing through the posts. Either that or I go to sleep if it's four in the morning when I start and I have D&D in the morning.

Three walls of text coming right up~

Affinity 110[/quote] here, he mentions both KY and SP. For his attack on Kanako, says he's not being pro-active which is more of a cop tell than a scumtell. Cops have more direct means of telling who's scum and who's not, so they can afford to be conservative on day one. Contrast Scum who have to root out Townies almost every day in place of themselves (Hi, Affinity's vote.)

[url=http://old.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=2095.msg104130#msg104130]I'm having trouble with this post
. He appears to have directly targeted SP and KY based on his question for donut. His next post later (162) Flips on Roukanken from when he asked donut "why Rou?"

Affinity ends day one with nothing worth noting besides the above. Not very contributive.

309, First post of day two, votes Edible based on use of meta. Next post responds to Donut Vs. Rou with suspecting donut after telling Rou he's obviously wrong. Turns around after Edible's case on donut. It's an understandable leap to make, though. 364 adds more pressure to donut, who by now has already been cracked (wheat)

~~~

Wrathie 116 Gives excuses for Lurking, then Mentions Alice is lurking. At least he says it's a null tell.

120 on the next page is good news. He provides opinions on everyone so far, to the point that can be expected early day one.

More denial of scum-type lurking Votes Rou based on having a case on UK and voting Alice. Unvotes later because he has work.

Reading 147 reminds me of reading Donut's play. Again, I'm not seeing the defeatest attitude as inherently scummy. Responds in full detail to UK.

171 denies his intent to atack rou dispite voting for him. Also tries to do a coverall post. Most of them are wrong (Neitz, Rou, Kanako, etc), but at least he tries to decide.

Pesco Votes Wrathie begining day 2, based on the fact that Wrathie made an excuse for not voting that didn't hold up.

Neitz asks UK and Alice to summerize Scum Wrathie and why he's not town wrathie.   

369 attacks Edible in depth. Defends from attack by Neitz and Pesco, oddly enough. Most of the points on Edible fall through when Adible answers his questions.
~~~

UK votes for Wrathie. Kiro (Confirmed town) Rou (Prob town) and Affinity all vote for SP after everyone unveils the first Doc and Cop. I should have been reading this as you ugys went along, because this is just hilarious. UK's strong feeling on Wrathie is a plus in my book.

Post 347, Just, Post 347. UK Rips Donut open using responces to quotes. Oddly enough, most of them don't say anything important. Others are borrowed from cases. Also rips down Roukanken's theories, but then again, it's just more showing up late to the party. wants to vote donut, but asks for a vote count like a good little girl. Kiro steals the Empty vote Seat.

UK responds to neitz and summerized Wrathie. It's her only solid opinion besides the one formed after Edible and Kanako's cases on Donut. Ease up on Wrathie for goodposting.

This is painfulHere, she continues to do little in the way of scumhunting, and manages a vote on donut. Also mentions a Read on Pesco and Nietz.

follow up analysis. I'm glad to see it. She basically asks why people think Neitz is scummy, and pardons Pesco based on there being other people she'd rather have lynched. namely, Just Donut.

Ended the day with a vote on Donut.

~~~

Tl;Dr: Wrathie seems suspect, but overall has done nothing that was really a scumtell. He has tunneled on Edible, who I think it town, and is trying to find points for his case when most of them fail. Aside from not giving up on Edible after not having a decent case, it's mostly town tells.

Affinity, while I went in trying to suspect him wound up having a majority of his posts being explainable as town actions, so there's nothing I can really hold up against him other than him pressing for my lynch. And since people are agreeing with him, I won't get far by pressing that, will I?

Finally, UK has said a majority of nothing for all of the game, and the only few times She's presented a solid opinion were on Donut and Wrathie, who I know and Believe (respectively) are town. The biggest tell however was that she was pushing for Donut's Lynch even after analyzing and Agreeing that Pesco should be voted off the Island.

No, I haven't gotten past day two results aside from the votecount, but I know UK managed to miss it, and it was a gimme day anyway. Also, I call UK's Latest post into suspect:

Quote
I'm kinda around. What do I owe you all? I'm not seeing much to respond to as I've been either out or tired. But I'm sure I'm missing something here. So, I'd like to know what I should be doing? I guess I can reread donut/Zakeri at some point today.

This mostly strikes as wanting to avoid the same fate I've been put up to due to her recent bout of inactivity.

##Vote: Uncertain Kitten

On the bright side, at least I'm not a survivor, UK.