Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread

[Pesco]

Screenshot time. And we'll be needing a new topic soon.

[Ghaleon]

Hey guys, I really think this game is brilliant, and I've just been *ITCHING* to do some random theorycrafting on it. When I find a game I enjoy I like theorycrafting stuff for it occasionally. Problem is this game has so many variables and characters I don't know if I would ever finish what I start. So I was wondering if anybody would care about such things. I really like the wiki and all, and has some great info. However, this leads me into day-dreaming about gory numbers and such.

For example, I sometimes want to calculate:
A character's potential DPS, this factors their speed, base attack(or mag), main attack spell's formula, average enemy defense, etc. (flandre and patchy prob win in this catagory, alas it would be cool to know by how much)
Damage per sp cost (not very important late game, but meh)
Possibly a dps/survivability quotient. (I think remi dominates here)
I can go on, but just those 3 alone are probably more work than I'm willing to devote time to..for now. But I'm curious if anybody gives a flying hoot about this. If anybody does, I'm hoping it'll motivate me to get my ass off the floor and do it.

Some info I'd absolutely DROOL over myself are:
Enemy attack damage formulas (like tai slash, samidere slash, double slash, triple slash, steel slasher, all the slashes, any slash I don't know about, dark whatever, {insert element here} wind, etc
Confirmation if enemy attacks that share names with player-useable attacks share formulas (does final boss' hyperdimensional flying object share the formula as 16F joinable boss' hyperdimensional flying object?), if not, their formula (duh).
I haven't double checked it, but I think that skillpoint cost per stat is not directly associated with the base skill growth of the same said stat per character. I'm willing to update this data myself because I know how however.

So, once again, please state if you give a hoot about this, I hope it might motivate me to do it (I'm reluctant to despite enjoying this kind of thing occasionally because I generally only want to for so much time before I get bored with the tedium and quit because I know it will really accomplish nothing since nobody cares).

Also, I'm not sure, but do these games (touhou doujin games) release source code ever? I could find out some of my wanted info MAYBE by looking at it. I can understand C++, and rekon I can figure out any similar language, but I'm not sure since I don't read Japanese. I understand the programming language is the same regardless of your own. But figuring out what is what with Japanese variable names,class names ,custom library names, comments,etc might be too hard.

[thechef0]

Well, finally got the drop but I don't have the star despite having all of the items on the first 10 pages...

As far as the dps stuff, I'm personally not that interested myself.  You pretty much have enough information on the english wiki with base stats, growth, and the damage formulas to make it obvious who excels in what.  But like you said, it might be interesting if anyone wanted to know by how much better they are in certain categories. I'd really like to have the damage formulas for enemies though.

[Ghaleon]

Well, finally got the drop but I don't have the star despite having all of the items on the first 10 pages...

As far as the dps stuff, I'm personally not that interested myself.  You pretty much have enough information on the english wiki with base stats, growth, and the damage formulas to make it obvious who excels in what.  But like you said, it might be interesting if anyone wanted to know by how much better they are in certain categories. I'd really like to have the damage formulas for enemies though.

Well some people mentioned Yuugi doing more damage than Remi for example. And while her formulas are higher, and her attack is close (combined with faster leveling), her speed is not. So it's not always obvious who excells at some catagories.

As for your star. I had the same problem. you have to beat maribel again, view the credits, and save again afterwards to get star credit if you don't initially get it.

[Garlyle]

For example, I sometimes want to calculate:

I'm such a numbers/calculation/etc. whore.  I even spent about three hours looking up data like that for FFXII, of all things, so... yeah.  I may help even @_@

Also you find some wonderfully unexpected results via testing.  Such as the fact that, in FFXII... Baltheir and Fran have a .2 second longer firing animation for their trademark weapons - guns and bows - which makes them the worst characters to use them (Their stats don't help either in those respects, really).

I'd laugh if it turns out Nitori really is one of the best damage dealers.

[Pesco]

I'd laugh if it turns out Nitori really is one of the best damage dealers.

Unprecedented Serious Affair. It'll be a good reason for me to try replay with a completely different team setup.

[Anima Zero]

Let's see...all MK2 bosses taken out.  Some were easy, others...not quite as much (Mk2 version of the 18F boss.  Ouchies).

Also took out all Bloodstained Seal bosses except for the final one that gets unlocked on 1F.  No idea how I beat the 20F Bloodstained Seal boss on my first try though (Did not like its first spell it cast).

As for that 1F one...I barely managed to take out one, then the other (Magic immune one) decided to say screw you and pull out some kind of super attack that basically wiped everyone except my 7F girl.  No need to explain what happened after that.

Went to explore the 21st floor since I got a 3rd star for clearing out all mk2 bosses.  Yay enemies that give basically the same XP/Skill Points as 20F mobs...and are more annoying.

Hit 22F's relay point, went to go kick off the 20F final boss again to get my 4th star for 100 items collected.  Oughta be 5 stars when I take out that 1F Bloodstained Seal duo.

In the meantime, further exploration of 21F turned up a new character joining my team.  A good one at that I must say (CLD elemental attacks are kinda rare I think).

Also a new character on the 1F too, but I haven't bothered leveling her up or anything at the moment.

Explored what I could of 22F, reached the 23F waypoint...and got a real laugh out of this floor's gimmick.  Made me go WTF for like 10 seconds, then I figured it out and thought it was a pretty neato gimmick.

Reimu...lv185 I think?  Can't quite remember.  I do know that I will be doing a bit of skill point farming to get a few of the stats for my 21F character up to par.

[Maiden Synnae ミ☆]

Can someone tell me what I need to do to access 21F?

I mean, I reached there, but there's a blue barrier telling me "You need 3 stars in order to proceed" What is that supposed to be?

[Serela]

Can someone tell me what I need to do to access 21F?

I mean, I reached there, but there's a blue barrier telling me "You need 3 stars in order to proceed" What is that supposed to be?

When you go to save now, you'll see there are stars on the screen. You get a star for beating the final boss, for collecting all 32 characters, for getting all 100 items on the first 10 pages, for beating all Mk.2 bosses now scattered around 1~20F, and for beating all Bloodstained Seal bosses.

[AlexX Unlimited]

I'd laugh if it turns out Nitori really is one of the best damage dealers.

Try actually using her sometime. You guys got so caught up in the numbers of her raw stats that you never gave her any actual field time to put them in action.

When Master Spark alone isn't enough, the Megawatt makes for some awesome backup.

[Maiden Synnae ミ☆]

When you go to save now, you'll see there are stars on the screen. You get a star for beating the final boss, for collecting all 32 characters, for getting all 100 items on the first 10 pages, for beating all Mk.2 bosses now scattered around 1~20F, and for beating all Bloodstained Seal bosses.

Thanks for the info, I'm only missing Suika out of the 32 characters. Can you tell me where to get a chart with the locations of all collectable "fragments of sake" nescessary to recruit her?

[Serela]

Thanks for the info, I'm only missing Suika out of the 32 characters. Can you tell me where to get a chart with the locations of all collectable "fragments of sake" nescessary to recruit her?

Ahhh... I remember there is one on 11F that was easy to miss if you weren't searching every spot. If you don't think you got it, I can give you a screenshot of the minimap where it is.

And one on 7F; you know that long column of tons of warps on the left side that all seem to go nowhere? Take the 7th one down.

Those are the easily missable ones that I can think of right now.

[Maiden Synnae ミ☆]

Ahhh... I remember there is one on 11F that was easy to miss if you weren't searching every spot. If you don't think you got it, I can give you a screenshot of the minimap where it is.

And one on 7F; you know that long column of tons of warps on the left side that all seem to go nowhere? Take the 7th one down.

Those are the easily missable ones that I can think of right now.

I got this fragment from 7F already, So... it seems that I'm missing the 11F one. Can you please, give me the mini map?

[Serela]

Okay, it turns out there is also one on 12F that may or may not be the one you are missing.

Anyway, here is the picture. http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/6306/newbitmapimageqg.png

I believe it was somewhere in the highlighted area. If you have that entire area explored however, you must already have this piece, and be missing the one on 12F. Just look at the 12F minimap and see if there isn't anywhere you've explored.

[The Fallen BMXer]

Can someone tell me how to reset skill points and character level?

[Serela]

Can someone tell me how to reset skill points and character level?

I'm pretty sure you can't.

[Milkyway64]

New game.

[The Fallen BMXer]

I'm pretty sure you can't.

That's bad, I hope the patch were evasion works comes out soon...

[Serela]

That's bad, I hope the patch were evasion works comes out soon...

I'm also pretty sure they were never trying to fix it in the first place, and possibly even broke it on purpose  :V

[Tankatron]

21F doesn't have a relay point for the entire floor. I'm sure (s)he doesn'tw ant to skip an entire floor's worth of content.

Heh heh. Now that I think about it, I remember the only reason I wanted to play this game was becuase I saw Utsuho in it.
Regardless, I may have found someone but I'm waiting for them to respond to my message.

[Milkyway64]

Heh heh. Now that I think about it, I remember the only reason I wanted to play this game was becuase I saw Utsuho in it.
Regardless, I may have found someone but I'm waiting for them to respond to my message.

You'll get Utsuho dead LAST. You will have her for the last set of bosses and the long, loooong grinding before.

I suggest you NOT do plus disk stuff past the arrival on floor 30. It's... boring. Very, very boring. And not very climactic.

[Maiden Synnae ミ☆]

Okay, it turns out there is also one on 12F that may or may not be the one you are missing.

Anyway, here is the picture. http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/6306/newbitmapimageqg.png

I believe it was somewhere in the highlighted area. If you have that entire area explored however, you must already have this piece, and be missing the one on 12F. Just look at the 12F minimap and see if there isn't anywhere you've explored.

It seems that I got this fragment from 11F too. Waaaaaaah!!! Suika is so troublesome. T_T can you give me a map from 12F? Do you have some idea on where the fragment is?

[Serela]

It seems that I got this fragment from 11F too. Waaaaaaah!!! Suika is so troublesome. T_T can you give me a map from 12F? Do you have some idea on where the fragment is?

I'm afraid I don't remember at all where the 12F fragment is... but I can give you a map to check, and that should tell you where it is.

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/3381/newbitmapimageim.png

Fragments are also on 3, 6, and 9F, but those floors are simple so I figured you probably got those. 9F should be the easiest to check because its basically a solid rectangle of squares with basically no open spots in it, except some close to the stairs.

[Tankatron]

You'll get Utsuho dead LAST. You will have her for the last set of bosses and the long, loooong grinding before.

I suggest you NOT do plus disk stuff past the arrival on floor 30. It's... boring. Very, very boring. And not very climactic.

Well that part of me that's a completionist nerd is going crazy so I have to find my way to those stairs. Now it's a matter of not feeling like I wasted my time.

[Anima Zero]

For the 12F fragment, it's very close to the green switch on the leftmost side of the map.  Should be just a short hop to the east from that switch.

At least that's what I'm reading from the JP wiki.

[Milkyway64]

Well that part of me that's a completionist nerd is going crazy so I have to find my way to those stairs. Now it's a matter of not feeling like I wasted my time.

So am I. I used up 40 hours of my life and felt like I got nowhere on plusdisk content. That "completionist" side starts to lose it's motivation when you realize a full week straight of playtime stands between you and a single goddamn floor.

[Maiden Synnae ミ☆]

I'm afraid I don't remember at all where the 12F fragment is... but I can give you a map to check, and that should tell you where it is.

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/3381/newbitmapimageim.png

Fragments are also on 3, 6, and 9F, but those floors are simple so I figured you probably got those. 9F should be the easiest to check because its basically a solid rectangle of squares with basically no open spots in it, except some close to the stairs.

Sorry to be a bother, but can you also give the maps from 3F and 6F? I mean, my 12F is complete already, so... it seems that I got the fragment there already. >_<

[Milkyway64]

Sorry to be a bother, but can you also give the maps from 3F and 6F? I mean, my 12F is complete already, so... it seems that I got the fragment there already. >_<

Just look at your own map. It's easy enough to see the paths you missed on the early floors especially, since they aren't so cramped.

[Maiden Synnae ミ☆]

For the 12F fragment, it's very close to the green switch on the leftmost side of the map.  Should be just a short hop to the east from that switch.

At least that's what I'm reading from the JP wiki.

Thats good to know, but I've got this one already. Could you also tell me the location of the others?

@Milkyway64:
 
I know, it's because I'm really desperated to reunite those fragments. I bet there is only one missing.

[Tankatron]

So am I. I used up 40 hours of my life and felt like I got nowhere on plusdisk content. That "completionist" side starts to lose it's motivation when you realize a full week straight of playtime stands between you and a single goddamn floor.

Ah ha ha ha. Nice job...you're ALMOST making me quit. However I won't give up that easily! (That is if I can get to those damn stairs >.>)