Author Topic: INVASION! (Game Over, Nobody Wins)  (Read 81312 times)

Pesco

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Re: INVASION! (Day 2) - Something Seems Familiar
« Reply #450 on: September 21, 2009, 04:03:02 PM »
Okay then why are you arguing about theoretical things instead of putting down statements of "Zak did ____ which is scummy for _____ reasons"?

I'll have a reread after dinner and other stuff.

FinnKaenbyou

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Re: INVASION! (Day 2) - Something Seems Familiar
« Reply #451 on: September 21, 2009, 04:11:09 PM »
Okay then why are you arguing about theoretical things instead of putting down statements of "Zak did ____ which is scummy for _____ reasons"?

I'll have a reread after dinner and other stuff.
Because I already did that back here when I pointed out he was tunnelling. Do I need to explicitly say something along the lines of

Zak is scummy because of his convenient placing on the Suwako wagon, his aggressive nature on said wagon followed by his quick wagon jump and following silence on Day 2, and his sudden inability to discuss anyone other than Serpentarius.

for people to appreciate my case?

FinnKaenbyou

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Re: INVASION! (Day 2) - Something Seems Familiar
« Reply #452 on: September 21, 2009, 04:20:52 PM »
EBWOP: And since you want reasoning as well:

Placing: It's already been pointed out that Suwako likely rose as an alternative lynch to VgT. Zak was fourth on the wagon, and spent the day arguing for Suwako's death fervently.
Silence: After this, Zak opened Day 2 jumping onto the growing Serpentarius wagon, and proceeded to stay silent until he was pressed. Not contributing is Anti-Town.
Tunneling: Zak has suddenly undertaken the mindset that you can only express opinions on the player you're voting for, which is absolutely ridiculous. Not only is it inconsistent given that Zak was perfectly capable of considering other cases before jumping onto Suwako, but it's basically keeping your opinions from the rest of the players, which is decidedly anti-Town.

Actually, I'm gonna go all the way with this one. Sodium at least has RL and a sort of newbie thing that gives him something resembling mitigating circumstances. Zakeri has claimed no RL problems and yet was still totally silent for over 24 hours. He has no excuse.

##Unvote: Sodium
Vote: Zakeri, Zakeri, Zakeri, Zakeri and Zakeri (L-7)



Edible

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Re: INVASION! (Day 2) - Something Seems Familiar
« Reply #453 on: September 21, 2009, 05:29:52 PM »
Vote Count: fsldkjfaosgihoh
Anthony (3) - Kiro, Pesco, Kitten4U
Angel Milk (3) - Suwako Moriya, Sodium, Serpentarius
Serpentarius (2) - Kilgamayan, Zakeri
Roukanken (2) - UncertainKitten, Affinity
Sodium (1) - Angel Milk
Zakeri (1) - Roukanken

Not voting: Anthony, Nietz

Around 24 hours remain.

Pesco

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Re: INVASION! (Day 2) - Something Seems Familiar
« Reply #454 on: September 21, 2009, 05:36:14 PM »
Sooooooo

Anthony doesn't have a vote then.

That's what it looks like.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2009, 05:37:42 PM by Edible »

FinnKaenbyou

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Re: INVASION! (Day 2) - Something Seems Familiar
« Reply #455 on: September 21, 2009, 06:18:27 PM »
Sooooooo

Anthony doesn't have a vote then.

That's what it looks like.
Yeah, about that.

Pesco

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Re: INVASION! (Day 2) - Something Seems Familiar
« Reply #456 on: September 21, 2009, 06:26:21 PM »
Modconfirmed wierdness. Unless someone is going to claim it, a scumAnthony flip should confirm whoever is responsible as town.

FinnKaenbyou

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Re: INVASION! (Day 2) - Something Seems Familiar
« Reply #457 on: September 21, 2009, 06:33:56 PM »
I'm not sure about this line of thinking. How Townie an ability is 'stop player X from voting'? And if it IS a scum power it screams WIFOM, so it should probably be dropped as a null tell either way.

Pesco

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Re: INVASION! (Day 2) - Something Seems Familiar
« Reply #458 on: September 21, 2009, 06:37:01 PM »

Serp

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Re: INVASION! (Day 2) - Something Seems Familiar
« Reply #459 on: September 21, 2009, 06:39:03 PM »
To try to set up a mislynch to counter the VgT wagon, it would be easier for Scum Rou to hype up one of the existing cases that had 2 or so votes on them already. I don't see why Scum couldn't have gone for one of the already established wagons which is why I'm thinking the earlier Suwako votes may have been from Townies.

Here, Kiro, you admit that you think the Suwako wagon could've sprung up from multiple townies making valid observations about Suwako's play.  If that's the case, then Suwako was set up as the alternative to VgameT without any scum action at all.  Then, shouldn't VgameT's flip have no bearing at all upon Suwako's?

Regarding my priority of an Angel Milk lynch over a Suwako or an Anthony one, and all the questions stemming from that, I may be letting rage at their relative lack of contribution weigh too heavily on my judgement.  I'm going to do a fresh reread tonight.
[15:13] <Sana> >:<

FinnKaenbyou

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Re: INVASION! (Day 2) - Something Seems Familiar
« Reply #460 on: September 21, 2009, 06:43:28 PM »
The question, then, is why the Suwako wagon picked up so quickly compared to the VgT and Anthony ones. The point against him were valid, true, but so were the points against VgT and (arguably) Anthony. Why was Suwako's wagon so much faster to build?

Kilgamayan

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Re: INVASION! (Day 2) - Something Seems Familiar
« Reply #461 on: September 21, 2009, 06:56:18 PM »
To try to set up a mislynch to counter the VgT wagon, it would be easier for Scum Rou to hype up one of the existing cases that had 2 or so votes on them already. I don't see why Scum couldn't have gone for one of the already established wagons which is why I'm thinking the earlier Suwako votes may have been from Townies.

Here, Kiro, you admit that you think the Suwako wagon could've sprung up from multiple townies making valid observations about Suwako's play.  If that's the case, then Suwako was set up as the alternative to VgameT without any scum action at all.  Then, shouldn't VgameT's flip have no bearing at all upon Suwako's?

This misses the point again. Were Suwako scum, a third case would have been pushed to at least TRY to make a non-scum train. Were Suwako town, then, well, Suwako's town.
[22:40:12] <Drake> "guys i donwloaded esod but its not workan"
[22:40:21] <Drake> REPORTED
[22:40:25] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> PROBATED
[22:40:30] <Drake> ORGASM
[22:40:32] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> FUCK YEAH

[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

Kiro

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Re: INVASION! (Day 2) - Something Seems Familiar
« Reply #462 on: September 21, 2009, 07:17:13 PM »
Serp, I was suggesting the Suwako wagon could have been started by Townies. But you really don't seem to be considering that Scum added onto it to make it competitive. They had to for the following reason:

If we look at just pure numbers, I think 14 out of 16 players voted for one or the other. Say at least 4 scum/anti-Town players exist in the game or 25%. If both VgT and Suwako are Scum, they were bussed by a few of their buddies. In this double-scum scenario, are you really suggesting with Scum VgT in the lead, some of the remaining Scum purposely fueled along the Suwako wagon, another Scum, to have it compete with VgT's? Statistically speaking, if the Suwako wagon was composed entirely of Townies (minus 1 because VgT was on it), and Suwako's and one other person's vote not on either wagon, you would need at least one Scum actively bussing VgT. Scum just letting their own members be the 2 dominating wagons of the day is extremely careless to be borderline suicidal as early flushing out of Scum just gives chance the Town to win by power role collusive lockdown.

Kiro

  • Drinks: Everything
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Re: INVASION! (Day 2) - Something Seems Familiar
« Reply #463 on: September 21, 2009, 07:20:34 PM »
EBWOP: "just gives chance the Town"...

I crack myself up sometimes.

Suwako Moriya

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Re: INVASION! (Day 2) - Something Seems Familiar
« Reply #464 on: September 21, 2009, 09:59:52 PM »
Yeah see the thing here is it actually looks like the wagon on me had a lot of townies getting their panties in knots, I'm not getting a big "this was a scum push" vibe.  More of a "scum completely fail at putting anything together" vibe.  This is consistent with the scum team having members who aren't in the game at all, like Angel Milk. 

And if he/she is not getting modkilled, I don't see how we have any choice but to lynch them, we certainly can't risk have them around later and even if they did get a replacement or suddenly start playing the doubts will always be too much.  This would be a semi-interesting policy debate if Angel Milk looked relatively townie, but fortunately the only thing they have done is pretty scummy so... I really don't see how anyone other than Angel could be the best lynch today.
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FinnKaenbyou

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Re: INVASION! (Day 2) - Something Seems Familiar
« Reply #465 on: September 21, 2009, 10:06:15 PM »
Question for Suwako. If no-one on your wagon is worth suspecting, who are Tenshi/Angel's scumbuddies?

Sodium

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Re: INVASION! (Day 2) - Something Seems Familiar
« Reply #466 on: September 21, 2009, 10:53:20 PM »
Tenshi: What is this I don't even. I don't feel like repeating everyone, but the reasoning sucks, and it's stupid to even say "I THINK X IS COP" out loud.

Roukan:
>Catchup Post
>Nothing new
Gee, you think? And it's hard to ask questions to a person that isn't existing. I doubt asking Anthony questions would be conductive to anything either.
Oh, and I don't get why you're picking on Zakeri and I for "not contributing", when there's Nietz who hasn't posted much either, Suwako who hasn't existed much either, and Tenshi, which is self-explanatory.

Nietz, Kitten4u: You going to post any time soon?

Affinity: Where'd your Nietz case go? =3

Suwako: The "scum completely fail at putting anything together" could also pertain to Anthony too.

And I'm pretty sure that Suwako is PROBABLY town, unless scum really suck as hard as Suwako is saying.

Staying on Tenshi for being obvscum, and failing that, useless. Only person stupid enough to replace Tenshi now would be me, and I've already replaced someone.

Kilgamayan

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Re: INVASION! (Day 2) - Something Seems Familiar
« Reply #467 on: September 21, 2009, 11:18:05 PM »
Yeah see the thing here is it actually looks like the wagon on me had a lot of townies getting their panties in knots, I'm not getting a big "this was a scum push" vibe.  More of a "scum completely fail at putting anything together" vibe.  This is consistent with the scum team having members who aren't in the game at all, like Angel Milk. 

You're doing a fantastic job of giving Serp an out to excuse his scummy behavior, you know that?
[22:40:12] <Drake> "guys i donwloaded esod but its not workan"
[22:40:21] <Drake> REPORTED
[22:40:25] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> PROBATED
[22:40:30] <Drake> ORGASM
[22:40:32] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> FUCK YEAH

[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

Nietz

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Re: INVASION! (Day 2) - Something Seems Familiar
« Reply #468 on: September 21, 2009, 11:30:20 PM »
Ok, let's go back at it:

Rou: I came so strong on Anthony at the beginning of D2 that I soon more-or-less dismissed it as typical TownRou meta. He does keep playing consistently with that, but I don't think that's enough to clear him any more, considering VgT's flip. Here is when he firsts acknowledges there is a VgT case, and says that he might vote him unless he does something "AWESOME", which I don' think he did, but instead he starts the wagon on Suwako, and his only further mentions of VgT are downplaying is suspicion value (by 88 he's down to sixth place in the scummy list), which is weird because the case on VgT wasn't that different from Anthony's to begin with. Also pretty much drops the case on Anthony, except for mentioning that he's fine with either a Suwako or Antony lynch, when an Anthony lynch clearly wasn't going to happen anymore.
Also, I don't think he has answered to this:
I suppose the thing with Tenshi is that he seems almost too obvious. >_>
Then again, given that, Town!Tenshi would logically have been easy prey for scum yesterday, and since no-one went for him...
What? By what logic would scum go after an largely uncooperative town that's likely to be wagoned the next day. It wouldn't make sense even to avoid a protect, considering how many player there were left.
He said it even before Anthony said the same thing, but unlike Anthony he wasn't questioned for it.

And about Anthony and his new voteblock thing, I really didn't like how, instead of just asking the mod to correct the count, he made a huge scene of re-voting and voting yet again just to call everyone's attention to his situation. This really gives me the feel of a scumbuddy using such an ability on him as a ploy to make him look town. Admittedly, this theory fails if that's actually a Town power, or if scum is trying to WIFOM him, but I'm still confident in it, particularly considering Anthony's choice of "safe" target.

About Angel Milk, I really would prefer him modkilled, but not if that will carry a penalty to Town if he's a townie.@Edible: Can you clarify that?

@Nietz

Personally I feel a kind of weird dynamic over Nietz's posts about Anthony and Angel Milk.  On D1, Nietz did defend VgT and Anthony to some extent and was wary of scum voting them due to them being easy targets, which is the very basis of his pesco vote, but his recent post here on D2 more or less does the same thing with Angel Milk, except that he accentuates the negative, thinking that he's anti-town, and yet still wary of people voting him for that.  Why?
Anti-town ≠ scummy. Both attitudes can lead to town voting someone, but the first is usually a better ground for scum to push a myslinch.

Quote
Also, how, in your view, do you differentiate a newbie bewildered by all these posts and posting bad content, to a newbie posting bad content more regularly?  Their mistakes are mostly the same variety, so how is Angel Milk more scummy than Anthony in this regard?
 
What's was scummy about Milk was basically his only meaningful action being joining the Suwako wagon, the rest was pure anti-town inactivity. But he's not more scummy than Anthony, especially considering the latter's recent voteblock stunt. 

Quote
Lastly, I don't particularly like how VgT's flip affects your view of playstyles and Anthony for this game, seeing that you supposedly had a larger body of evidence saying that newbies were often mislynches, this kind of makes you feel like some compulsive gambler.  Gives an air of inconsistency about your playstyle which I don't really endorse; this is bad for the crops.
I don't think I understand your point here. I admit that I was wrong on judging VgT, so I might have been wrong about Anthony on the same grounds. Plus, his play is getting scummier as the game goes on, as I mentioned in D1 already.

There's still some people I should read better, but right now I'm pretty much set on Anthony, Serp and Rou in order of suspicions. Anthony's voteblock drama put him ahead, though I would be fine with the others as well.

##Vote Anthony

I have a statement I'd usually apply here but it comes off as bitchy so I'll spare it.
I miss the old UK.  :(

 
 

Affinity

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Re: INVASION! (Day 2) - Something Seems Familiar
« Reply #469 on: September 21, 2009, 11:33:13 PM »
Sigh again Suwako why didn't you drop the case on Kilga earlier today.  It feels as if Minoriko's invisibility charm has worn off on the player himself and that Suwako's hat is too big for her eyes which seems to be the case all game.

---

@Rou:

And Rou, I have not been tunneling since I have questioned Nietz and Suwako as well.  How was it IIoA?  There was some progress in the questioning there, it seems, and there were opinions.  Furthermore, Sodium was on the VgT bandwagon yesterday and for some reason you do not take into account Eliphas' posts yesterday.  Your, erm, 'premises' for attacking him is also rather flawed and unwieldy too; see below.

Quote
Besides, by that time there was now a good deal of pressure on Suwako, and removing my vote at that time would've led people to believe I was trying to start a wagon and then disassociate myself with it when it got hot.

I disagree; you meant it as a prod, you expressed it as a prod, and you could drop it as a prod since you were around when the number of votes on Suwako was equal to that on VgT.  Furthermore, in this post, you explicitly say that you wanted Suwako to be lynched that day, which is at odds with your current position.  Contradictions like these are bad.

Quote
Why am I responsible for regulating the lynches given that I was only the first vote on Suwako, and therefore wasn't responsible for the votes that came afterwards

You are not, but you are partially responsible for regulating the bandwagon and you had numerous chances to do so.  I don't understand why if you can vote for Suwako due to him being scummy, others can't.

Quote
The two main people I've been trying to question on it are Zak and Sodium, third and fourth on the wagon.

What.  Obviously, you are not reading properly and you're just scum trying to push easy lynches while giving the impression of activity.  Confirming my vote.

Affinity

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Re: INVASION! (Day 2) - Something Seems Familiar
« Reply #470 on: September 21, 2009, 11:36:23 PM »
EBWOP:

@Nietz:

Okay, that clears up stuff.  My point is that you since you were coming into the game with the mindset that newbies shouldn't be lynched straightaway, the VgT lynch shouldn't just change it like that.

Edible

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Re: INVASION! (Day 2) - Something Seems Familiar
« Reply #471 on: September 21, 2009, 11:39:45 PM »
About Angel Milk, I really would prefer him modkilled, but not if that will carry a penalty to Town if he's a townie.@Edible: Can you clarify that?

All modkills are day-ending, regardless of the alignment of the person being modkilled (unless that person was doing something to be modkilled to intentionally provoke a day-end or whatever).

Frankly, while I despise his lack of contribution, he has responded successfully to prods each time.  I believe it should be up to the players to decide how best to deal with him.  That said, he has given himself up for replacement, so I will be forced to modkill him eventually if I cannot find a replacement.

Kilgamayan

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Re: INVASION! (Day 2) - Something Seems Familiar
« Reply #472 on: September 21, 2009, 11:45:37 PM »
You could always modkill him and not flip him until the end of the day.
[22:40:12] <Drake> "guys i donwloaded esod but its not workan"
[22:40:21] <Drake> REPORTED
[22:40:25] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> PROBATED
[22:40:30] <Drake> ORGASM
[22:40:32] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> FUCK YEAH

[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

FinnKaenbyou

  • Formerly Roukanken
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  • blub blub nya
Re: INVASION! (Day 2) - Something Seems Familiar
« Reply #473 on: September 21, 2009, 11:56:28 PM »
And Rou, I have not been tunneling since I have questioned Nietz and Suwako as well.  How was it IIoA?  There was some progress in the questioning there, it seems, and there were opinions.  Furthermore, Sodium was on the VgT bandwagon yesterday and for some reason you do not take into account Eliphas' posts yesterday.  Your, erm, 'premises' for attacking him is also rather flawed and unwieldy too; see below.

I got annoyed by excerpts like these:
Quote
Aaaaand nothing really new happened. Except for a new Nietz case by Affinity.
Congrats on saying 'hey there's a case here' and immediately NOT COMMENTING ON IT.

Quote
I disagree; you meant it as a prod, you expressed it as a prod, and you could drop it as a prod since you were around when the number of votes on Suwako was equal to that on VgT.
So once again, I have to come apart with my own case because everyone else suddenly starts jumping on it?

Quote
Furthermore, in this post, you explicitly say that you wanted Suwako to be lynched that day, which is at odds with your current position.  Contradictions like these are bad.
It started as a prod, and he continued to fail producing as the day went on which made me want to lynch him. I don't see a contradiction.

Quote
You are not, but you are partially responsible for regulating the bandwagon and you had numerous chances to do so.  I don't understand why if you can vote for Suwako due to him being scummy, others can't.
You're missing the point of the entire argument here. It's the fact that as soon as the Suwako wagon appeared, there were 3 jumpers on it and other cases fell to the side. Given that the leading lynch at that point was a Mafioso, it seems believable that he was being quickwagoned to try and save VgT.

Quote
What.  Obviously, you are not reading properly and you're just scum trying to push easy lynches while giving the impression of activity.  Confirming my vote.
Gah, this game is getting to me. *headdesk*
I was after Zak for the positioning on the Suwako wagon, and Eliphas/Sodium for being VgT's last gasp vote change. I can't really respond to this other than saying that (as people have accused me of forgetting several times) not all mistakes are scummy. Outright fabricating facts for the sake of looking active is suicidal.


Also, I don't think he has answered to this:
I suppose the thing with Tenshi is that he seems almost too obvious. >_>
Then again, given that, Town!Tenshi would logically have been easy prey for scum yesterday, and since no-one went for him...
What? By what logic would scum go after an largely uncooperative town that's likely to be wagoned the next day. It wouldn't make sense even to avoid a protect, considering how many player there were left.
I don't understand how this is as bad an idea for scum as you make it out to be. It's not like the entire wagon would be scum - some misguided Townies would be on there as well, and it would have a decent chance of saving VgT.

We're sort of running out of time in terms of deciding a lynch. Current order of preference is Zak, Tenshi, Sodium, Anthony. After Zak's tunneling on Serp today I'm slightly concerned about that wagon.

In other news, if Tenshi is actually Town after Edible's whole 'I don't want to modkill him even though he's posting more or less nothing' I will probably self-destruct.

Edible

  • One part the F?hrer, one part the Pope
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  • It's the inevitable return, baby
Re: INVASION! (Day 2) - Something Seems Familiar
« Reply #474 on: September 22, 2009, 12:13:08 AM »
Vote Count: Tempting Players With Delicious Candy
Anthony (4) - Kiro, Pesco, Kitten4U, Nietz
Angel Milk (3) - Suwako Moriya, Sodium, Serpentarius
Serpentarius (2) - Kilgamayan, Zakeri
Roukanken (2) - UncertainKitten, Affinity
Sodium (1) - Angel Milk
Zakeri (1) - Roukanken

Not voting: Anthony

You have until about 2 PM tomorrow, so... ~18 hours remaining?

Nietz

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Re: INVASION! (Day 2) - Something Seems Familiar
« Reply #475 on: September 22, 2009, 12:26:15 AM »
I suppose the thing with Tenshi is that he seems almost too obvious. >_>
Then again, given that, Town!Tenshi would logically have been easy prey for scum yesterday, and since no-one went for him...
What? By what logic would scum go after an largely uncooperative town that's likely to be wagoned the next day. It wouldn't make sense even to avoid a protect, considering how many player there were left.

I don't understand how this is as bad an idea for scum as you make it out to be. It's not like the entire wagon would be scum - some misguided Townies would be on there as well, and it would have a decent chance of saving VgT.
Actually, scratch that whole thing, I misunderstood "yesterday" for "last night", my bad.

Kitten4u

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Re: INVASION! (Day 2) - Something Seems Familiar
« Reply #476 on: September 22, 2009, 01:14:42 AM »
Quote from: Sodium
Kitten4u: You going to post any time soon?

Mondays are busy for me.  I've only been able to focus on this topic for about 5 minutes at a time before having to do something else.

---

So not much has changed for me.  I still find Anthony the most suspicious.  Serp is now more suspicious than Rou.  I'd like to see if we could get a replacement for Angel Milk before we think about a lynch, but if that's clearly not possible then I'd be fine with that lynch as well so that D3 wouldn't end early.

So yeah, my thoughts are basically the same as they were last time I posted.  Most everything I have to add has already been said, but I'll go ahead and repeat people.

I've never dealt with a PR that makes it so certain people can't vote.  That's pretty interesting.  It isn't making me think that Anthony is town, and it doesn't make him look less suspicious at all.

Tenshi's comment about Rou was bad and should not have been said.

Rou actually looks like he's trying to scum hunt now, so that's what dropped him below Serp on my scumdar.  Something feels odd about some of his posts, but I can't quite figure out what it is.  I'll work on figuring that out.

I agree that Zak is looking weird.  I think there are better lynches for today though.

Waiting on Serp's reread and comments for the moment.
My favorite mythical creature? The honest politician.
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Hurray for apathy!

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Re: INVASION! (Day 2) - Something Seems Familiar
« Reply #477 on: September 22, 2009, 03:39:39 AM »
We could give three shaky reasons why Town X deserves lynch, and still avoid suspicion by throwing in keywords and phrases like "Infolynch" and "I've just finished rereading".

Likewise, We could give five solid reasons for why Scum X, Scum Y, and Town Z all deserve lynches, and yet by leaving our vote on Town Z, we could still be called scum once those three flip.

It's obvious you're never going to forgive us of the vote on Suwako, even if we could prove it was an innocent mistake.

Quote
and proceeded to stay silent until he was pressed.
You make it sound like we were here the whole time we were silent.

Affinity

  • hoho
  • ... but I have promises to keep.
Re: INVASION! (Day 2) - Something Seems Familiar
« Reply #478 on: September 22, 2009, 04:24:34 AM »
@Rou:

Quote
Aaaaand nothing really new happened. Except for a new Nietz case by Affinity.

True, I have to agree with you here.  The fact that Sodium asked me where that case went before Nietz even came on to answer me is also disturbing; his last post made him far worse.  What do you mean by being VgT's last gasp vote change, though?

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It's the fact that as soon as the Suwako wagon appeared, there were 3 jumpers on it and other cases fell to the side. Given that the leading lynch at that point was a Mafioso, it seems believable that he was being quickwagoned to try and save VgT.

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It started as a prod, and he continued to fail producing as the day went on which made me want to lynch him. I don't see a contradiction.

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Was it bad enough to earn my vote for the sake of creating some sort of pressure on him? Yes. Was it bad enough for people to suddenly disregard secondary suspects like Nietz and Pesco and suddenly reduce Day 1 to a 2-lynch race? No.

My point here is that these three tidbits are in direct contradiction here.  If you felt that way, it's not that unfeasible to think that many people would feel that way too, and just because you said that 'yeah I had a case on him' doesn't mean that you can be excluded from your own usage of the 'zero to four vote' argument to accuse others.  As Zakeri said, this is because anybody can say that yes they voted Suwako over others for genuine reasons and give a common few, including yourself. 

In this way, any attempt of your own to use that bandwagon argument to implicate others, including Serp and Zak, is a contradiction in itself even if you cite alternate cases.  Trying to get past this is the main reason why I think you're scummy in addition to what UK said.

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Zak is scummy because of his convenient placing on the Suwako wagon, his aggressive nature on said wagon followed by his quick wagon jump and following silence on Day 2, and his sudden inability to discuss anyone other than Serpentarius.

Two of that above points apply to you as well.  Silence is circumstantial. 

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@K4u:

How is Rou scumhunting in your opinion?

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Angel Milk should be banned from Mafia games forever.  Suspicion list runs Rou, Anthony, Angel Milk.  Am not too sure on Serp at the moment, shall reread him.  Also laughable is how Suwako is employing the exact same playstyle as he is about not using flips to do anything beside advocating their use yesterday (except far worse), not replying to my questions and shrugging them off, and just generally just coasting along the town cred he has for being on the alternate bandwagon.  If he didn't have the latter, he would be my choice for a lynch.

Suwako Moriya

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Re: INVASION! (Day 2) - Something Seems Familiar
« Reply #479 on: September 22, 2009, 04:47:25 AM »
Hey guys let's play the not taking statements and running with them until they become absolutes game!

Round 1 postanalysis: when I say "Stop pursuing junk cases day 1", it doesn't mean "sit around and do absolutely nothing day 1."

Round 2, ongoing: when I say "I get an angry townies vibe from the day 1 train on me, rather than a scum push vibe" it doesn't mean "I believe there were absolutely no scum on that train whatsover."

As you can see it's a pretty simple game. 

I'm not answering Affinity's questions about the early Pesco case for the same reason the Obama administration doesn't take questions about his birth certificate.  It should be obvious why super early day 1 cases are dropped and are no longer worthy of serious discussion on day 2, I feel dirty posting even this much about it.

The dogpile on Anthony is... ehhhhhh.  His play is about the same as Angel Milk, master of the art of not showing up and doing anything except voting the wrong case.  That's pretty bad.  On the other hand he somehow lacks a vote and that somehow inspired Pesco to make the worst post I've seen in some time.  This inclines me a bit more towards his townieness but that's a debacle all around.  I'd be up for lynching him or Serp I guess but I don't see how they stand out over each other or Angel.
The only thing this dimension does well is show its ass. We might as well applaud it! - Albert Burneko

Well, this game happened.