Author Topic: Touhou Remix: Game Over Man, Game Over!  (Read 63534 times)

FinnKaenbyou

  • Formerly Roukanken
  • *
  • blub blub nya
Re: Touhou Remix Day 1 START!
« Reply #60 on: August 03, 2009, 10:55:56 PM »
Sure, it's a poor opening point by most standards, but that's what you get for Day 1's first case.  The longer the day goes on, the more important it becomes to find any excuse to end RVS.  I wasn't content to pass the buck and lose however many more hours while everyone decided to wait and see.  I challenge you to point out a single other point that could have been used to end RVS by that point.
That isn't the point here. The point is that there's little reason to leave RVS if there's nothing worth discussing. Go into real voting with nothing worth talking about, and there's no way anything productive will come from the day.

Quote
Though, come to think of it, it would've made more sense to mention who it was that assumed he was Zakeri in that case.
Or better yet, how about voting for the person who thought he was Zakeri?

Serp

  • It's all about overwhelming force and irresistible style
  • And in a pinch, style can slide
Re: Touhou Remix Day 1 START!
« Reply #61 on: August 04, 2009, 12:42:30 AM »
That isn't the point here. The point is that there's little reason to leave RVS if there's nothing worth discussing. Go into real voting with nothing worth talking about, and there's no way anything productive will come from the day.

No, no, if we're too picky about the cases we move out of RVS for, then there's nothing worth discussing.  Normally RVS produces something clearly worth commenting on.  This time, we had to reach a little more than usual.  It was a valid point to discuss, however minor, and it's being pretty quickly overtaken by opinions of opinions of cases.  This is good.  It's how the game is meant to flow.

In any case, there hadn't been any posts in ten hours.  Most of the random votes were already in place.  Something had to give.  Do you really think it would have been more pro-town to just make another random vote and then wait for someone else to shake things up?
[15:13] <Sana> >:<

Jana

  • mrgrgr
  • *
Re: Touhou Remix Day 1 START!
« Reply #62 on: August 04, 2009, 12:46:22 AM »
Whoops, forgot my "##" in my joke vote.

I don't think Tenshi was trying to make a serious vote. I don't think I've ever seen Tenshi play either, since s/he edited their post without knowing the rules earlier. As Kiro mentioned, I think it's more of a case of someone who didn't really know how to go about playing the game, and set off some false alarms. However, I don't think Serpentarius's vote on Tenshi was more than something to get his attention... If anything, it kinda comes off as too-townie play, but I'm willing to wait and let things move a little before pushing a case.

For now, I'll just prod our usual lurker. ##Vote Alice. It's been way over 24 hours since confirmation.

Kiro

  • Drinks: Everything
  • Sleeps: Anywhere
Re: Touhou Remix Day 1 START!
« Reply #63 on: August 04, 2009, 12:53:12 AM »
Serp: The issue I have with you is your accusation that Alice has checked the thread and purposefully did not post either a RVS or a reply about Tenshi's vote and it looking like scummy self preservation. That's a bit of a reach with those choice of words, even for a Day 1 case imo. First, you have no conclusive evidence of him checking or "purposefully" not posting. As much as I dislike it, Alice doesn't always post in RVS as Affinity mentioned whatever his alignment. It's useless to prod Alice on that. If I'm going to vote Alice, it's a vote to lynch. Not posting in RVS or for the first 24 hours is akin to lurking, but that's not the accusation you put forward. You're saying he's refusing to discuss something serious which isn't quite the same.

The problem is deciding whether Tenshi was worth replying about and it is perceptively different as the various replies in this thread are pointing out. Finally, in the span of 11 hours between Tenshi and your post, how many others probably saw the thread and decided not to respond to Tenshi as you believe it deserved? Alice is just the easiest to single out, but I imagine you didn't make a list of all the other players who were online in that 11 hour period. While this definitely looked like an attempt to force RVS to end, anyone who does so is neutral in my book. I find your reasons standing out oddly.

I noticed Nietz's #53 is strictly commentating. If there's someone that suddenly looks like he's not adding to the discussion (there's no actual opinion about Serp), he fits the bill the most out of everyone minus the lurkers. Care to take a stance on whether Serp is scummy or not? And you didn't bother to at least present a question or prod to anybody else which is slightly lazy.

Lurkers = Alice, Tenshi, Xan, Jan-san (just posted)

Cut by Serp: Town or Scum can end RVS to gain Townie cred or just take the first step in pushing a mislynch. And RVS always end somehow but it never means every player will contribute more. *scans lurker list again*

Re: Touhou Remix Day 1 START!
« Reply #64 on: August 04, 2009, 12:58:22 AM »
Quote from: Serpentarius
Well, let me put it this way:  I would've questioned anyone who RVS posted after that point.

And what exactly would you have questioned them about?

A Better question would be why anyone would have thought you would question them since your opinion on Days So's vote came out of no where?

Quote
Quote
Though, come to think of it, it would've made more sense to mention who it was that assumed he was Zakeri in that case.
Or better yet, how about voting for the person who thought he was Zakeri?
why are we trying to gleam information on something that happened outside of the game? Days So voted me because I was relevant to the game, but we don't even know if the person who made the mistake is in this game. It would seem legitimately out of place if that person was E-Mouse or Wrathie.

It was Days So's first vote, for a reason that didn't even have to do with the game much less scum hunting. How does this not qualify for RVS material?

Also, Serp, you ignored my first question: Did you target Alice knowing he was on earlier today? And if so, why didn't you provide timestamps as evidence? Judging from your recent opinions on Alice, your vote seems to have been made without the knowledge that Alice wouldn't have too much time to post at the beginning.

Quote
However, I don't think Serpentarius's vote on Tenshi was more than something to get his attention...
Serp isn't voting for Tenshi. He's voting for Alice for not immediately commenting on the serious business that was Tenshi's vote.

reading Kiro's...

Nietz

  • NEETz
  • *
  • Normal Person
Re: Touhou Remix Day 1 START!
« Reply #65 on: August 04, 2009, 01:27:03 AM »
I noticed Nietz's #53 is strictly commentating. If there's someone that suddenly looks like he's not adding to the discussion (there's no actual opinion about Serp), he fits the bill the most out of everyone minus the lurkers. Care to take a stance on whether Serp is scummy or not? And you didn't bother to at least present a question or prod to anybody else which is slightly lazy.
I didn't think he looked particularly scummy for that. He seemed honest about wanting to start some serious discussion. Of course, a scum could do that just as well as a townie, so that was a null tell.

Making a point on Tenshi and then voting Alice was a little weirder. And looking back at his responses, the whole "duty to make a RVS post" sounds a little forced. Could be scum making too much effort to look town, but I'm not too convinced right now.

Carthrat

  • HITLER OF LURKERS
  • MEIN MAIDENKAMPF
Re: Touhou Remix Day 1 START!
« Reply #66 on: August 04, 2009, 01:39:28 AM »
If Alice doesn't pipe up he'll just be modkilled and stuff, he already said he's going to be lurktastic on day 1/2. I can hate this and also not find him scummy for it, everyone else can find it in their hearts to feel the same.

Moon's vote was pretty clearly a jokevote. Is this actually debateable? Also suspicious of Zakeri for piling onto Alice, three votes on him for nothing is weird and bad.

Can the mods please, like, give votecounts on every page if at all possible?

Ask and ye shall recieve? I'll post one in a second. Gotta find a cool song...

You guys aren't going to post a page worth all that quickly are you? I'll be more pressed for good songs though
« Last Edit: August 04, 2009, 03:49:45 AM by Pesco »

UncertainJakutten

  • Then you should get out of the way when I tell you
  • Do you not trust my aim?
Re: Touhou Remix Day 1 START!
« Reply #67 on: August 04, 2009, 02:25:21 AM »

The Third "Jazzin' it up!" Vote Count

"我儘お嬢様の為のBigband"

Roukanken (0)
Affinity (0)
Carthrat (0)
Nietz (0)
Suwako Moriya (1): Roukanken
Xan (0)
Kiro (0)
Zakeri (0)
Serpentarius (2): Carthrat, Kiro
Alice (4): Suwako Moriya, Serpentarius, Zakeri, Jan-san
Jan-san (2): Xan, Affinity
天使 (0)


Not Voting (3): Alice, 天使,  Nietz

Wherever I put a pretty message telling you to unvote, your vote didn't count. Don't worry, they are pretty easy to find, since they involve songs probably not related to Touhou.

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch
Alice is at L-3
Deadline is in two days at 3 PM EST, Wednesday, August 5th


FinnKaenbyou

  • Formerly Roukanken
  • *
  • blub blub nya
Re: Touhou Remix Day 1 START!
« Reply #68 on: August 04, 2009, 02:27:19 AM »
It was a valid point to discuss, however minor, and it's being pretty quickly overtaken by opinions of opinions of cases.  This is good.  It's how the game is meant to flow.
How is picking one joke vote and treating it as a genuine accusation a 'valid point'?

He seemed honest about wanting to start some serious discussion. Of course, a scum could do that just as well as a townie, so that was a null tell.
This statement feels sort of off. Serp's entire point is that not contributing is a scumtell because discussion is good for Town, and Nietz follows up with 'trying to start legitimate conversation is a nulltell because scum could do it as well'. Isn't that sort of contradictory?

Nietz: If you don't think that Serp is worth suspicion, what about Alice? Is there anyone you have anything on right now?

Serp

  • It's all about overwhelming force and irresistible style
  • And in a pinch, style can slide
Re: Touhou Remix Day 1 START!
« Reply #69 on: August 04, 2009, 03:20:33 AM »
Quote from: Kiro
As much as I dislike it, Alice doesn't always post in RVS as Affinity mentioned whatever his alignment. It's useless to prod Alice on that. If I'm going to vote Alice, it's a vote to lynch. Not posting in RVS or for the first 24 hours is akin to lurking, but that's not the accusation you put forward. You're saying he's refusing to discuss something serious which isn't quite the same.

It's not quite the same as lurking, but it's functionally indistinguishable.  When something happens that's likely to drive scum under the radar, we should be looking out for that exact ploy.  I'm not at all happy with giving Alice a meta clear here.  Historically scummy play shouldn't make a person off limits.  If anyone else had been the one lacking a vote by that point, I would've voted for that person instead.

Quote from: Kiro
The problem is deciding whether Tenshi was worth replying about and it is perceptively different as the various replies in this thread are pointing out. Finally, in the span of 11 hours between Tenshi and your post, how many others probably saw the thread and decided not to respond to Tenshi as you believe it deserved? Alice is just the easiest to single out, but I imagine you didn't make a list of all the other players who were online in that 11 hour period. While this definitely looked like an attempt to force RVS to end, anyone who does so is neutral in my book. I find your reasons standing out oddly.

The fact that no one even posted during that time is part of what made me consider this scenario.  When there's a long period without any posts, you've got to consider that the last post in the thread has something to do with that.  11 hour gaps just aren't normal.  The clearest explanation is that Moonspeak's post scared people away.  The one above all that should have been expected to post in that interval was Alice Margatroid.

Quote from: Zakeri
It was Days So's first vote, for a reason that didn't even have to do with the game much less scum hunting. How does this not qualify for RVS material?

It's the sort of thing that generally shouldn't be brought into the game, but it's not irrelevant to the game.

Quote from: Zakeri
Also, Serp, you ignored my first question: Did you target Alice knowing he was on earlier today? And if so, why didn't you provide timestamps as evidence? Judging from your recent opinions on Alice, your vote seems to have been made without the knowledge that Alice wouldn't have too much time to post at the beginning.

I didn't check any signin timestamps.  It skirts the border between in-game information and out-of-game information, so I don't like to do that.  In theory, Alice could just have his homepage set to MotK or something.  It's true that I didn't consider that Alice had said he wouldn't have frequent access.  What I did consider was that his schedule would probably be on a roughly 24 hour cycle, and his last post was at 11:00 pm.

Quote from: Roukanken
How is picking one joke vote and treating it as a genuine accusation a 'valid point'?

Whether it was a joke vote or not is still up in the air.  I find it strange that you're now referring to the vote as though you're certain that it was a joke.  In any case, what matters is how it looked, and I believe there was ambiguity there.

I'm also still waiting for Kiro to explain how adopting a wait-and-see attitude when the RVS stage has run out of steam is at all pro-town.  Furthermore, for all the criticism of my case, I still haven't seen anyone say what they'd have done in my place.  I ask again: would it have been better for the town if I had just passed another random vote?  That'd just contribute to the lack of real leads.  Should I have simply not posted at all?  Lurking is not helpful.  Was there a better case I could have pressed?  If so, everyone else seems to have missed it too - every bit of genuine discussion today has drawn from my post or responses to it.  I'm not asking you all to give me townie cred for taking literally the only pro-town action I could have, but at least keep in mind the options I had.
[15:13] <Sana> >:<

Suwako Moriya

  • Hey you with the pretty face
  • *
  • Welcome to the human race!
Re: Touhou Remix Day 1 START!
« Reply #70 on: August 04, 2009, 03:42:14 AM »
You haven't said what you really thought about Tenshi, so saying that his was a 'unique opinion' is a little bit of a waffle, because that covers a lot of questionable ground.

"Unique" at least implies I thought he was the only one to hold it.

I also thought Tenshi's vote was a gag vote.

How is picking one joke vote and treating it as a genuine accusation a 'valid point'?

Is it really necessary to discuss this at this juncture? Let me pull up something you said earlier.

That isn't the point here. The point is that there's little reason to leave RVS if there's nothing worth discussing. Go into real voting with nothing worth talking about, and there's no way anything productive will come from the day.

Serpentarius sent us into real voting by giving us something to talk about. It's pretty obvious that we're going to get something productive from the day given the numerous reactions that have resulted. If this is truly what matters, as you claim (and, for the record, I agree with you), then why are you still picking at whether or not his reasoning was worthy for sending us into real voting?

Alice will get struck by GM lightning if she doesn't post, so...

##Unvote: Alice Margatroid
##Vote: Roukanken


I don't like how you seem to be rounding about on yourself in looking for something to attack Serpentarius with.

Also suspicious of Zakeri for piling onto Alice, three votes on him for nothing is weird and bad.

I find it curious that you skip over Jan-san completely given he did the exact same thing.
The only thing this dimension does well is show its ass. We might as well applaud it! - Albert Burneko

Well, this game happened.

?lice Bl?ckb?rn

  • The real Alice Blackbarn!
  • *
  • "OH DESIRE"
Re: Touhou Remix Day 1 START!
« Reply #71 on: August 04, 2009, 03:54:23 AM »
Hey, I wouldn't be me if I didn't require a prod to post on D1 :V

Serp's elaboration on Moonspeak is slightly odd. It seems as if it's a needless overreaction, as it takes a random vote's reasoning seriously for no good reason. Moreover, where did it seem that Moonspeak's vote was actually serious? I'm not seeing it.

However, I'm not seeing why it's advantageous for A Scum to hold this position. All it seems to do is attract attention, rather than the classical scum behaviour which would be to try to blend in with the rest of the townies. It seems like overzealous townie behaviour at this point in time.

Quote from: Serpentarius
Normally RVS produces something clearly worth commenting on.  This time, we had to reach a little more than usual.
Huh? We also came out of RVS after about half a page. Typically RVS lasts up to a page, sometimes even two. So I'm not sure why we "had" to "reach", unless we simply wanted to turbo out of that stage ASAP.

Quote from: Serpentarius
The clearest explanation is that Moonspeak's post scared people away.
Bzuh?!? Again, Moonspeak's post looks like classical RVS to me. Why there was an 11-hour long gap, I have no idea, but it could just be posting habits/coincidence. It's mildly weird but it's also not cause for alarm at this point in time.

I'm honestly a bit torn here. The delay is odd, but on the other hand, the exit out of RVS is forced. Despite this, Serpentarius *does* seem to have Townie intentions in the end, and moreover, I'm not seeing how anything he's done, despite being ~OvErDrAMaTiC As All FuC~, is actually outright scummy. Especially since it gathered an almost undue amount of attention on him.

@Zakeri: is your entire case on me based on lurking? If so, who else do you find scummy today?

Nietz seems a bit off, for reasons that Roukan mentioned. REALLY don't like Jan-san, who basically hops in and goes "oh hey I'll also lurk a lot then join, do a quick comment on Serp and then toss on a prod onto the other lurker for little reason" without commenting much on anything else that went on. Jan-san: opinions?
##Vote: Jan-san

Xan needs to exist, not sure why he's not also under fire. Same for Moonspeak, whom I'd like to clear this issue up right about now.

Ninja by a frog hat: I'm not seeing the Roukanken case at the moment. Not only does he not seem to be overtly attacking Serp, but his vote isn't even on Serp for that matter. Huh?

Relevant prods have been sent
« Last Edit: August 04, 2009, 04:01:33 AM by Pesco »
"Oh, great. Another game where I get screwed by Kilga." ~ Carthrat

Re: Touhou Remix Day 1 START!
« Reply #72 on: August 04, 2009, 04:06:52 AM »
Quote
Moon's vote was pretty clearly a jokevote. Is this actually debateable? Also suspicious of Zakeri for piling onto Alice, three votes on him for nothing is weird and bad.

Serp Seems to think so. And I at least checked to see if Alice was lurking before voting for him.

Quote from: Rou on Neitz's responce to Serp
Isn't that sort of contradictory?
If the contradiction comes from two sources, chances are it's a disagreement, not a contradiction.

That said, I don't like How Neitz seems to avoid giving any sort of definite opinion on this situation.

Quote from: Serp
When there's a long period without any posts, you've got to consider that the last post in the thread has something to do with that.  11 hour gaps just aren't normal.  The clearest explanation is that Moonspeak's post scared people away.
Now, I realize we're not all in the same time zone (Sup, Rou.) Or on the same sleeping Schedual, but this eleven hour period was from 11:00 P.M. to 10:00 A.M. the next day. I feel a much more simpler conclusion is that a majority of the people were sleeping through most or part of this time.

Quote
I didn't check any signin timestamps.  It skirts the border between in-game information and out-of-game information, so I don't like to do that.

Okay, this is bad because it means you're reason for voting is for Lurking, at the expense on not being able to tell the difference between Lurking and being Inactive. Except ...

Quote
I had forgotten about that.  Pre-arranged absences are by definition not a scumtell.

Here, you even admit that Alice's Lurking is not a scumtell. Basically, the only point you're holding Against Alice Effectively is that you believe Alice came on, saw the vote against Me, thought it was serious even though you're the only one who did think it could be serious, and choose not to post, risking being called out on not taking part of the RVS so that you would be less likely to call her out on ignoring Days So's random vote.

What is this I don't even?

Quote
I'm also still waiting for Kiro to explain how adopting a wait-and-see attitude blah blah blah...
Yes, we get it, it was the only thing you could do that looked pro-town. That was back then, though, what about now?

##Unvote: Alice Margatroid
##Vote: Serpentarius


Quote from: Alice
@Zakeri: is your entire case on me based on lurking? If so, who else do you find scummy today?
It's An Alice~! :D If I remember correctly, my vote on you was because of your last sign in, which was two hours before Serp voted for you. So yes, it was.

Let's see ... well, I'm Finding Serp Scummy for trying to hold his position over a vote that's going for broke. Also, as I noted above, I don't like Neitz's posting style of "Well, that's sort of scummy, but I guess it's kind of a null tell, so I'm not going to say anything definitive and just lean back while everyone else does things."

Affinity

  • hoho
  • ... but I have promises to keep.
Re: Touhou Remix Day 1 START!
« Reply #73 on: August 04, 2009, 04:10:21 AM »
@Suwako:

Well, if it was to imply that he was the only one to hold it, then that wouldn't really be a judgment of value, because people can make unique bad opinions too.  The thing is that you said that you thought Tenshi's vote was a gag one, and yet felt that Serp's vote was okay.  Thus there's a little contradiction which I would like you to explain; why is Serp not scummy for making the 'unique' opinion?

## Unvote
## Vote: Suwako

---

@Serp:

The question here is not if you should have dropped another random vote, but your justification for going on a serious vote.  No one would jump at Rou for voting someone he had never seen before, for example, thus the next person should have just made another random vote.  And apparently, everyone saw it as a joke vote except you, so there's where the problem lies.  While you veering off into Alice is not too bad, it's your suspicion of Tenshi which is the main issue here in my opinion, and why I disagree with you.

Suwako Moriya

  • Hey you with the pretty face
  • *
  • Welcome to the human race!
Re: Touhou Remix Day 1 START!
« Reply #74 on: August 04, 2009, 04:10:49 AM »
@Alice: My vote on Roukanken is for this little exchange.

Roukanken #60: "Your segue was weak. We need something meaty to end the RVS. Otherwise nothing will get accomplished."

Serpentarius #61: "My segue generated discussion and many more opinions have cropped up. We've moved out of RVS as a result."

Roukanken #68: "But your initial segue wasn't valid!"

Basically he's picking on Serpentarius for something that was actually what he (Roukanken) said was what needed to happen. The validity of Serpentarius's case on Tenshi, at least as Roukanken seemed to define it, is determined not so much by how plausible it was as a lynch case as much as whether it generated discussion or not. It did generate discussion, and yet Roukanken is still going after him for it, even if he doesn't have his vote laid down there.
The only thing this dimension does well is show its ass. We might as well applaud it! - Albert Burneko

Well, this game happened.

Suwako Moriya

  • Hey you with the pretty face
  • *
  • Welcome to the human race!
Re: Touhou Remix Day 1 START!
« Reply #75 on: August 04, 2009, 04:19:10 AM »
@Affinity: Because opinions that early in the game aren't black and white. I forget who mentioned to, but I recall someone, in the aftermath of the Umineko game, talking about town going after people for being stupid rather than being scummy. I think it's a lot more likely that Serpentarius simply held a misguided opinion, and misguided opinions aren't inherently scummy.
The only thing this dimension does well is show its ass. We might as well applaud it! - Albert Burneko

Well, this game happened.

Suwako Moriya

  • Hey you with the pretty face
  • *
  • Welcome to the human race!
Re: Touhou Remix Day 1 START!
« Reply #76 on: August 04, 2009, 04:19:33 AM »
That should say "I forget who mentioned it".
The only thing this dimension does well is show its ass. We might as well applaud it! - Albert Burneko

Well, this game happened.

Maid Xan~

  • Oh. Uh... Hey... Hey there, Koto.
  • What... what are you smiling like that for, Koto?
Re: Touhou Remix Day 1 START!
« Reply #77 on: August 04, 2009, 04:50:49 AM »
Sorry, hadn't been sure on how to read the situation until now.

IMO, Serp's ending the RVS in response to Tenshi was valid. Tenshi's statement WAS discussion worthy. Not very, but at least it's a start. It's better than some of the reason's I've seen given for getting onto serious matters. His vote for Alice, however, makes me a little nervous, though I don't feel ready to act on it yet. Yes, Alice was lurking. Yes, we usually shouldn't excuse scummy play based on meta. However, Alice's meta is SO consistant on the issue of lurking that it is impossible to classify it as a tell in his case. The fact that everyone else is getting on the Alice wagon is particularly irritating to me, since Zakeri, and possibly Jan-san (not clear enough on how long Jan has been playing), are familiar with why Alice's meta generally causes people to tolerate his lurking.

Meanwhile, Carthrat has been unusually unproductive and quiet compared to my (albeit limited) previous experience with him. I would like him to contribute more. He currently seems to be active lurking, something I am familiar with, as I have been guilty of it in the past. I will say I appreciate the request for a votecount on every page, though.

##Vote: Carthrat

I also feel similarly about Neitz, but he, at least in my eyes, has given a bit more actual substance. I'd like a concrete stance, however.

We're letting go of something we never had.
Time goes so fast, UNVOTE is lost.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2009, 09:42:41 AM by Unesco »
There are people in this world who enjoy being alone. But there isn't a single person who can bear solitude.

Carthrat

  • HITLER OF LURKERS
  • MEIN MAIDENKAMPF
Re: Touhou Remix Day 1 START!
« Reply #78 on: August 04, 2009, 06:04:33 AM »
What is this 'contribute more'? I said everything that needed saying. Everyone else is saying *too much*, christ. I'm not reading all this crap on day one unless ##'s are attached to it.

I did miss Jan being on the tail end of the AliceWagon there, and he's as suspicious as the rest. Brief glance through things has me more suspicious of Zakeri anyway at present. We've got him going 'Serp has a point voting Alice is okay', voting Alice, and now turning on Serp for trying to stick to his guns. What's up with that? You were backing him up before the kitchen got hot. Smells fishy to me.

##Unvote, ##Vote: Zakeri

Hououin Kyouma

  • KEEP YA GUNS ON!
  • ARE YOU READY, GUYS!?
    • When Posters Cry
Re: Touhou Remix Day 1 START!
« Reply #79 on: August 04, 2009, 06:41:38 AM »
Damn! I had to go to school and then cram school so I didn't post. Also I thought you weren't allowed to double post so that's why I didn't post again.

I am going to read the posts first then post again (not editing)

"DUMBASS!" "I'd hit it" "Bear-sona~!" "Critical hits to the nads!" "What you're really asking is... "Will you please beat the **** out of me, Kanji?" "...I Gotta pee." ''Everydays great at your Junes~'' "You calling me a loser?"

Re: Touhou Remix Day 1 START!
« Reply #80 on: August 04, 2009, 06:53:11 AM »
I'd like to know how Questioning and determining the reason for his votes until finally deciding that it was for a weak reason and that I felt Serp should have a little more to add right now than "Well, how else were we going to leave the RVS portion of the game?" counts as "Backing him up before the kitchen got hot."

Quote
What is this 'contribute more'? I said everything that needed saying. Everyone else is saying *too much*, christ. I'm not reading all this crap on day one unless ##'s are attached to it.

You'll be reading all this crap on day three, and if you haven't grasped the concept of day one bandwagoning, then trust me when I say it'd be easier to fill in the holes when there are smaller holes to fill in.

Cut by Days So: Actually, double posting is encouraged because you're not allowed to Edit posts.

Hououin Kyouma

  • KEEP YA GUNS ON!
  • ARE YOU READY, GUYS!?
    • When Posters Cry
Re: Touhou Remix Day 1 START!
« Reply #81 on: August 04, 2009, 07:01:45 AM »
##Vote: Serpentarius

I find him extremely suspicious because he was voting against me for a RVS. Besides who would make a newbie to became a Mafia anyway? Or maybe he knew I was new to the game and thought he would have an advantage because I am a newbie.   :(
"DUMBASS!" "I'd hit it" "Bear-sona~!" "Critical hits to the nads!" "What you're really asking is... "Will you please beat the **** out of me, Kanji?" "...I Gotta pee." ''Everydays great at your Junes~'' "You calling me a loser?"

Kiro

  • Drinks: Everything
  • Sleeps: Anywhere
Re: Touhou Remix Day 1 START!
« Reply #82 on: August 04, 2009, 07:08:48 AM »
Nietz: You're still kind of noncommittal about Serp or anyone else for that matter. I'm not seeing any backbone in anything you're saying and it's sticking out like a sore thumb.

Serp: I am seriously not buying such explanations like Tenshi's vote scared people away (so you're the only one brave enough to post after him?) or that "the someone" expected to post in that interval was Alice. At that time, only you and Alice did not have a post in the game so ironically enough, people may also have been waiting for you as well.

The part about wait-and-see during RVS does not explicitly mean being passive. People start up the game with random votes and read responses or lack of responses. Without fail, someone will get serious eventually. My impression is that most people wait and see for that trigger. The difference comes in how long some people can bear to wait and may or may not be related to their alignment. Without wanting to get into a circular argument about that, anyone can cause a scene or stick their neck out and both sides have reasons for doing so. At the same time, both sides also have reasons to wait-and-see. It's not anti-Town to do so because you can almost be assured someone else will step up to stand out and at the same time, you don't become a distraction to the rest of Town.

I agree Carth should add more of his opinions on why he's keeping his vote on Serp as of his #66 and comment on other cases. He just did. And Zakeri has responded. Too tired to see the ensuing dialogue.

And I know someone said that Rou's vote isn't on Serp, but Rou actually intended his vote to be there on #54. All of a sudden can't find this post. Gah, I can't concentrate anymore. I'll think more about Suwako's case on Rou and the case on Suwako tomorrow although my first glance is that they're both based on nitpicking minor details.

Cut by Tenshi: The mods usually assign people their roles and alignments randomly. There's usually no bias in regards to whether a total newbie rolls Scum in his very first game so don't think you can use that reasoning here.

Kiro

  • Drinks: Everything
  • Sleeps: Anywhere
Re: Touhou Remix Day 1 START!
« Reply #83 on: August 04, 2009, 07:16:23 AM »
Oh Tenshi, Serp wasn't voting you. You got to get your facts straight or people will question you on those errors. Maybe I'lll see a clarification of your case on Serp or someone else tomorrow morning.

Hououin Kyouma

  • KEEP YA GUNS ON!
  • ARE YOU READY, GUYS!?
    • When Posters Cry
Re: Touhou Remix Day 1 START!
« Reply #84 on: August 04, 2009, 07:23:00 AM »
Nietz: You're still kind of noncommittal about Serp or anyone else for that matter. I'm not seeing any backbone in anything you're saying and it's sticking out like a sore thumb.

Serp: I am seriously not buying such explanations like Tenshi's vote scared people away (so you're the only one brave enough to post after him?) or that "the someone" expected to post in that interval was Alice. At that time, only you and Alice did not have a post in the game so ironically enough, people may also have been waiting for you as well.

The part about wait-and-see during RVS does not explicitly mean being passive. People start up the game with random votes and read responses or lack of responses. Without fail, someone will get serious eventually. My impression is that most people wait and see for that trigger. The difference comes in how long some people can bear to wait and may or may not be related to their alignment. Without wanting to get into a circular argument about that, anyone can cause a scene or stick their neck out and both sides have reasons for doing so. At the same time, both sides also have reasons to wait-and-see. It's not anti-Town to do so because you can almost be assured someone else will step up to stand out and at the same time, you don't become a distraction to the rest of Town.

I agree Carth should add more of his opinions on why he's keeping his vote on Serp as of his #66 and comment on other cases. He just did. And Zakeri has responded. Too tired to see the ensuing dialogue.

And I know someone said that Rou's vote isn't on Serp, but Rou actually intended his vote to be there on #54. All of a sudden can't find this post. Gah, I can't concentrate anymore. I'll think more about Suwako's case on Rou and the case on Suwako tomorrow although my first glance is that they're both based on nitpicking minor details.

Cut by Tenshi: The mods usually assign people their roles and alignments randomly. There's usually no bias in regards to whether a total newbie rolls Scum in his very first game so don't think you can use that reasoning here.
So it is 100% random? That sucks. Saying that made me more suspicious now..... *reads more Mafia Wiki* But I still find Serp still suspicious for thinking that a RVS was serious. But I ##Unvote: Serpentarius and ##Vote: Alice
"DUMBASS!" "I'd hit it" "Bear-sona~!" "Critical hits to the nads!" "What you're really asking is... "Will you please beat the **** out of me, Kanji?" "...I Gotta pee." ''Everydays great at your Junes~'' "You calling me a loser?"

Carthrat

  • HITLER OF LURKERS
  • MEIN MAIDENKAMPF
Re: Touhou Remix Day 1 START!
« Reply #85 on: August 04, 2009, 07:36:10 AM »
lol newbieomgus and it's not even correct. Kiro, don't coach him.

Zakeri: Gameflow reasons. It's intuitively weird that you dive off Alice onto a guy voting for him when you've stated over that you understand his reasons for doing so. I do think I'm off the mark now, though, it's wrong to say you're running from the heat when you, erm, are the heat. Yes. ##Unvote: Zakeri

Hmm. I'm still leery of the early wagon on Alice, lurking isn't even a reason at this stage of the game. It built too quickly for no good reason and while I can excuse Suwako and Zakeri a bit there by now, I can't do the same for Serp and Jan. Serp at least has the vauge excuse of "I'm just getting discussion going", which... eh, I've been there, even if I think he's too goddamned wordy and using too many REASONS for his early vote.

Jan's post was late on the train however and as tacky as any of them, thus he becomes the most suspicious person around. Saddening that he couldn't put out a vote for something someone had actually said. ##Vote: Jan

Moon what are you doing why are you voting Alice :/

Jana

  • mrgrgr
  • *
Re: Touhou Remix Day 1 START!
« Reply #86 on: August 04, 2009, 07:42:16 AM »
Tenshi: If it wasn't 100% random, some people would draw scum fairly often. It's better for everyone involved if there's that random element to keep things unpredictable.

Also, 'sup Alice. ##Unvote Alice

As to my opinions, I've got little more than Serp looking like trying-too-hard-to-act-town and Tenshi trying-too-hard-to-act-new, but I'll get something concrete after I sleep.

Cut by Carthrat: My only real reason for voting Alice was that it had been over 24 hours since her last post, nothing more. Since Alice has posted, I went and removed it.

?lice Bl?ckb?rn

  • The real Alice Blackbarn!
  • *
  • "OH DESIRE"
Re: Touhou Remix Day 1 START!
« Reply #87 on: August 04, 2009, 09:26:39 AM »
Moonspeak what the heck are you doing what is your reason for voting me I mean seriously what.
"Oh, great. Another game where I get screwed by Kilga." ~ Carthrat

Unesco

  • United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization
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Re: Touhou Remix Day 1 START!
« Reply #88 on: August 04, 2009, 09:44:29 AM »

The Fourth "Rocking da house" Vote Count

"SYNC.ART'S - tod und feuer"

Roukanken (1): Suwako Moriya
Affinity (0)
Carthrat (0)
Nietz (0)
Suwako Moriya (2): Roukanken, Affinity
Xan (0)
Kiro (0)
Zakeri (0):
Serpentarius (2): Kiro, Zakeri
Alice (2): Serpentarius, 天使
Jan-san (2): Xan, Carthrat
天使 (0)


Not Voting (2): Alice, Nietz, Jan-san

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch

Deadline is in two days at 3 PM EST, Wednesday, August 5th


I hope the next post does not contain a vote. Just easier to do the countup for.

« Last Edit: August 04, 2009, 02:34:23 PM by UncertainKitten »

Carthrat

  • HITLER OF LURKERS
  • MEIN MAIDENKAMPF
Re: Touhou Remix Day 1 START!
« Reply #89 on: August 04, 2009, 10:40:07 AM »
Quote from: Jan-San
Tenshi: If it wasn't 100% random, some people would draw scum fairly often. It's better for everyone involved if there's that random element to keep things unpredictable.

Also, 'sup Alice. ##Unvote Alice

As to my opinions, I've got little more than Serp looking like trying-too-hard-to-act-town and Tenshi trying-too-hard-to-act-new, but I'll get something concrete after I sleep.

Cut by Carthrat: My only real reason for voting Alice was that it had been over 24 hours since her last post, nothing more. Since Alice has posted, I went and removed it.

That actually means "I am active lurking and dropping meaningless votes past the time that's permitted", correct?