Touhou Remix: Game Over Man, Game Over!

[Kiro]

This isn't forceful enough, plain and simple. If you think his case on Serpentarius is really that unclear, why is that not a point against him and instead something to just brush aside lightly?

Because if you check his vote reason, it's something made in error. He said he was voting Serp because Serp had voted him. In other words, his case on Serpentarius is unclear because there's a factual mistake. The point against him is that he made a mistake and he needs to clarify his case in light of the mistake. I'm not forceful because I want to see what he thinks once he realized there was a mistake.

[Serp]

Again, I made the coaching point afterwards before your refutation. This doesn't qualify as an 'additional reason'.

That was after my refutation, too.  We were discussing the particulars at that point, but it was after I had explained that I was using a weak discussion point to draw us out of RVS, and my explanation to Moonspeak should've been read the same way regardless of your initial misreading of Moonspeak's vote.

Analysing individual scumminess will only get you so far. Analysing relationships between players will get you closer to a final result because in the end that's what you're looking for - a scumteam, not a single scum. In Umineko, by attempting to analyse pairings on D4 I got closer to the actual Carth/Serp scumpair than I managed to get anywhere else in the game.

Forgive me for coaching you, Roukanken, but there's a big difference between looking for scumpairs in LyLo and looking for scumpairs on D1.  By LyLo, the vast majority of things that people are going to say over the course of the game have been said.  Evidence has had plenty of time to stack up, so it makes sense to pick your cases and stick with them unless a new post is incredibly scummy or there's no hope of a lynch unless a compromise is reached.  D1, your early cases are probably being made on the basis of one or two posts.  Maybe that case will stay viable, and maybe it won't, but it ought to be re-examined when there are more cases popping up to compare it to.  Basically, my gripe isn't that you're making scumpair theories, it's that you're doing it while tunneling.

People HAVE pointed out what he's doing wrong, and he's STILL incomprehensible and useless. If we go any further we'll practically be playing the game for him.

It did turn out that way, but there's a difference between incomprehensibly useless posts and scummy posts.

Can I not assume that before he showed up here Tenshi did a little research about the game? Can I not assume that he'd have the initiative to look up a phrase he didn't recognise rather than make us explain everything to him?

Well, searchable phrases like WIFOM fall into that category, but stuff like posting evidence from private information is only obvious once you've seen everyone play for awhile.  When I first got here, I came from a mafia forum where private communication was allowed, and Moonspeak's play so far really wouldn't be out of place there.  He's bad and scummy and worthy of lynching, but not unbelievably so.

No, the difference is with coaching you don't hold the player responsible for his actions and cut him slack. How are you expected to learn if your mistakes aren't met with consequences?

This seems to be a recurring theme today.  Some honest mistakes betray scummy intent.  Some don't.  Moonspeak's first post looked like the latter to me.

Anyway, something more now that I've done another readthrough:

Jan-san seems to have chronic bandwagon rider syndrome.  First he jumps on Alice for not much reason, jumps off that wagon when it starts to go south, then jumps on me, and his reasoning hasn't been compelling.  In fact, I think he's produced about as much useful content as Moonspeak, just with less newbiness.  Why did he drop back down to L-7, again?

##Unvote
##Vote Jan-san

I'm up for both lynches, but I think my vote is more useful here.  Moonspeak's bandwagon showed up really quickly, and Jan-san's bandwagon evaporated really quickly.  That's worth considering, at least.

[Serp]

Serp - Still suspicious (maybe he wanted to get the game started fast, so he make a overreacted post so that everyone would complain to him, but the person at the start who gets the most vote won't be lynched at the end because someone else will get the people's attention and then Serp would be saved)

Forgot to mention this in my above post - this is what stood out to me as a sign that he's doing some critical thinking here.  This is the point that Nietz called a null-tell, and the reason I didn't demand town credit for forcibly closing RVS, but here he seems to be putting it in his own words.

[Nietz]

@Nietz: Your previous post about Serpentarius (the one linked with "sitting on fences") saw two conclusions from you.

Of course, a scum could do that just as well as a townie, so that was a null tell.

Could be scum making too much effort to look town, but I'm not too convinced right now.

Neither of these makes me think you actually felt strongly what you said. There's nothing concrete here.

And there was nothing concretely suspicious at that point. Was I supposed to pretend having a strong opinion?

Your second post was admittedly better in its reference to Zakeri and Jan-san, even given that Carthrat already went over them. The vote, however, just looks like a blatant bandwagon, and it's no problem at all for scum to hide behind "I'm just voting for who I think is scummiest" to try to justify a bandwagon vote. It also took impact away from your note about Zakeri and Jan-san, making your comments about them look like little more than a token attempt to contribute.

And it's no problem for scum to let a townie dig his own grave without getting involved either. The points on Serp, Zakeri and Jan were things I noticed while catching up with the thread, I was leaning towards voting Serp for the reasons I mentioned when I came to Tenshi acting like a completely clueless scum and trying to cover it up. I still hold my points about the others, but why should I ignore Tenshi's meteoric scum-rise just because he was the last to show up on the list?

Not much more to say about the case right now, as he hasn't posted since, and I don't see much point in the discussion about helping newbies being scummy or not.

[WHMZakeri]

I wish he'd comment on more cases than just mine and Moonspeak's

Now that you've backed off your point, You'll get your wish.
##Unvote: Serpentarius

he's trying too hard to defend the newbie.

It's kind of hard to tell people their reasoning for voting for someone is bad and NOT defend the person they're voting for at the same time. Should I just let any bandwagon I feel is scummy go forth?

No, I'm actually asking this question. I use to think that was a bad idea until the last game where everyone was too busy trying to lynch said person to notice I had caught scum.

I will concede that if Days So doesn't start shaping up before the end of day 1, he's worthy of the day's lynch and will vote/hammer accordingly, But I still feel somethings wrong for voting for someone who doesn't know how to act like a townie whether he is one or not.

Yeah, that point was sarcasm if you didn't notice it.

I didn't. Thanks for pointing that out.

I'm saying that if we immediately give him a free pass because he's a new player and don't suspect him as scum, then

seriously, how much do you think a free pass is worth? If you say until Lylo, I'm putting you down on my blacklist for the rest of the game.

Analysing individual scumminess will only get you so far. Analysing relationships between players will get you closer to a final result because in the end that's what you're looking for - a scumteam, not a single scum. In Umineko, by attempting to analyse pairings on D4 I got closer to the actual Carth/Serp scumpair than I managed to get anywhere else in the game.

Let's take a closer analysis of this point, even ignoring that fact that this only works during lylo or after we've lynched scum (You know, after we have solid evidence). You pulled up the Serp/Carth scumteam point, and then dismissed it due to a single bus attempt and went after Sodium. I on the other hand had taken a look at Serpentarius' posts and saw some Subconscious Scummy intent, and voted while making a case based on it. Which of us wound up being closer to targeting scum than the other?

People HAVE pointed out what he's doing wrong, and he's STILL incomprehensible and useless. If we go any further we'll practically be playing the game for him.

83: First instance of Days So getting his scummy play explained to him
93: Days So's mistake becomes apparent
98: Second instance of Days So getting his scummy play explain to him

Can I not assume that before he showed up here Tenshi did a little research about the game? Can I not assume that he'd have the initiative to look up a phrase he didn't recognise rather than make us explain everything to him?

You call my point of refusing newbies and sending them to Mafiascum to play games designed to teach them "AtE", yet you fully expect them to play as if they've been through two or three of those kinds of games already?

---

And there was nothing concretely suspicious at that point. Was I supposed to pretend having a strong opinion?

Would it really have been that hard to have an opinion? Why were you trying to avoid having an opinion that wasn't "Strong" enough earlier in day one, when bad opinions are easily excusable?

And it's no problem for scum to let a townie dig his own grave without getting involved either.

No, but it probably wouldn't hurt to throw in a vote. Especially if you have yet to throw one around.

alright, Looking back now...

Neitz 53 - points out two flaws in Serp's voting, Then Unvotes. You don't bother to find something worth putting your vote on, nor do you bother to explain why you're not voting for Serp even with the points of the bad case and the WiFoM.

Neitz 65 - Suwako already pointed out what's wrong with this post. Two Null Tells on the same person, and still no effort put into looking at anyone besides Serpentarius.

Neitz 103 - pokes suspicion onto me and Jan-san by putting out the opinion that the Alice vote was worthless. This would be worth more if you had presented your opinion of the Alice bandwagon while it was happening. Also, your vote on Days So worries me, since it was made during the "Let's all bandwagon Tenshi/Moon" phase of the game.

I'd like to see what you think about more than just Serp, Days So, and bandwagons that have already failed. Right now, though, it's worth a vote.

Carthrat 49 - Brings up a serious point on Serpentarius, but in such a drastic way that I had to check the next post before taking this one seriously. I can't tell if this is real outrage or not. Also, Votes Serp.

Carth 66 - Doesn't think Alice is necessarily Scummy, thinks Days So's vote is obviously a joke vote. I like this post up until the prod on me, Ignoring Jan-san (already discussed) but also doesn't bring anything up of Serp or Suwako's vote, even though Suwako left his random vote due to Alice not having spoken up. Why focus mainly on the third vote even though Suwako also had no intention of making the number any lower?

Carth 78 - Tell's everyone to talk less :V. Or use less words, I'm guessing? Admits Jan-san is as suspicious as the rest of the wagon. Then continues to turn his attention to me. mentions my vote switch to Serp for him focusing too much on Alice, even though I voted Alice as well. Vote switches from Serp to Me.

Carth 85 - Explains his reason for tunneling me, but unvotes due to my take charge attitude thus far in the game. Continues with the Alice Bandwagon theory, and chooses to go after Jan-san who he felt was the only one with no business on it. Votes Jan-san.

Carth 89 - Accuses Jan-san of Active lurking, Which he is.

Carth 92 - Question's Days So's vote and what he learned.

Carth 92 - Changes his opinion on whether or not scumpairing should be used on day one in order to suggest a Serp/Days So pairing. If this is true, what of your opinions on the Alice bandwagon now? He's apparently dropped it, since he unvoted Jan-san and voted Days So.

Carth 101 and 102 - says coaching is bad because then the newbie wouldn't be giving his raw opinions. And he was before? :V

Basically, It was easy following along a townie thought process behind Carthrat's voting up until the wall that was Days So, where he drops everything and starts up a "Serp and Days So are Scum, End of Game." Attitude. I can't really imagine what would cause him to spout out post 92, but I imagine if there is an answer to that, it will become apparent later in the game. To be honest, I figured there would have been much more to look at for someone who's changed his vote four times in two days.

And Since Xan has only made two posts, I might as well throw in his analysis free of charge.

Xan 77 - Says Days So's vote was worth enough discussion to get us out of RVS. Gets a bad vibe from Serp's vote on Alice, but chooses not to say anything definite on it. He accidentally WiFoM's all over himself, which I think is less him trying to confuse others, and more actually confusing himself. He does go along with Carthrat's suspicion against Me and Jan-san.

Votes Carthrat for not Contributing much, with Neitz following closely behind on contributing a little bit more. This actually fits in nicely, since it was the post before Carthrat started to actually get active.

Xan 97 - for all his opinion in 77 was worth, he drops everything and focuses on Days So. He actually presents his reasoning in a compelling manner, but it's still for reasons similar to Carthrat's, and it still adds a weird fluidity to the bandwagon on Days So.

Basically, I can see the beginnings of a townie trying, but I would definitely need to see more from him before I decide if we shouldn't lynch him.

Basically for all it's worth, Neitz is the one I'm most worried about, so I'll ##Vote: Neitz

[Suwako Moriya]

@Nietz: Your previous post about Serpentarius (the one linked with "sitting on fences") saw two conclusions from you.

Of course, a scum could do that just as well as a townie, so that was a null tell.

Could be scum making too much effort to look town, but I'm not too convinced right now.

Neither of these makes me think you actually felt strongly what you said. There's nothing concrete here.

And there was nothing concretely suspicious at that point. Was I supposed to pretend having a strong opinion?

Other people didn't seem to be having too much of a problem.

Zakeri already covered the second half of your post.

[Affinity]

About the coaching issue, I really abhor the slippery slope argument that Rou and Carth seem to be pursuing about 'playing the game for him'.  There is a difference between finding a person's mistakes genuinely scummy or not, and 'coaching' has nothing to do with it.  After all, as Zakeri said, it's not as if a person can learn through a piece of advice.  I don't find coaching to be as much of a scumtell as people make it out to be.

Jan-san's post... isn't satisfying for reasons Serp already raised.  Also seems to be agreeing with every single bandwagon that came up today.  But I'll wait for Xan to post first.

[Hououin Kyouma]

I see everyone is accusing me of being a scum........

Guess being on the Cirno board for too long has made me actually stupid

I think one of the people who voted me is a scum and is trying to make me look bad but for the moment I won't vote.

If I was a newbie scum. The situation would have been a lot worse by me saying something like "I vote *name* because he wrote on he post *something suspicious that didn't make*" unless a scum helped me in which my posts will have been better if I was a scum because the scummies would have told me how to post properly and not get caught. But if that happened and I became would became suspicious for being pro like.

Now you guys would be like "huh" because suddenly I wrote about something, which has never happened so you guys assume that this is a different person or a scumbuddy is helping him because he is write properly. But that couldn't be possible because this is the way I talk if you have read all my post. Then you guys will think "well couldn't someone close to him write it for him?"

I also would have told the scums that I was a newbie and I needed help then I would have listened to their instruction which I will look less suspicious unless somebody actually knew that I was newbie some how and would vote for me for being too good at Mafia despite being a newbie.

Also the scummies wouldn't risk using me as a bait since there are only about 3-4 mafia and if I get caught and got lynched there would only 2-3 people left which would lower the amount of people there are in the mafia unless they wanted to me to get lynched on purpose which wouldn't be very nice and if that happened I would of quit this game already.
 

[Pesco]

The Sixth "Break out the beats" Vote Count

TASUKETE EIRIN!!!!!

Roukanken (0):
Affinity (0)
Carthrat (0)
Nietz (2): Suwako Moriya, Zakeri
Suwako Moriya (0):
Xan (1): Affinity
Kiro (0)
Zakeri (0):
Serpentarius (3): Kiro, Jan-san, Roukanken
Alice (0):
Jan-san (1): Serpentarius
天使 (4): Carthrat, Xan, Alice, Nietz


Not Voting (1): 天使

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch
天使 is at L-3

Deadline is in less than one day at 3 PM EST, Wednesday, August 5th

Forgot to change to Unesco. FFFFFFFFF

[Kiro]

Tenshi, all those hypotheticals don't really get into the main thing people want to know, which is who you think is Scum.

If you think one of the people voting you is Scum, point out who you think is most likely and give a reason. Or if you think there's a person who isn't voting you is more likely to be Scum, you can also do the same thing. There isn't that much time left for Day 1 so you got to have an opinion and put it down with a vote. Not voting is usually considered anti-Town behavior because it suggests you don't have a good opinion because you could be Scum who knows everyone else's alignment already.

Reminder

5) Days have a deadline of 72 hours. A deadline extension of 24 hours may be granted by a majority vote once per day.

[Hououin Kyouma]

TASUKETE ERIN!!!!!!!
this is a good song for me

And where Roukanken's vote I can't see it

My mistake in the count was pointed out

[Kiro]

Due to the helpful reminder:

##Vote Extension

[FinnKaenbyou]

##Vote Extension

Alright, I admit this looks really poor but I think I might want to step away from the Serp argument for a while now. I've beaten it into the ground and to be honest it only really holds true if Tenshi flips scum, so at he very least it should be left until later.

##Unvote: Serp

seriously, how much do you think a free pass is worth? If you say until Lylo, I'm putting you down on my blacklist for the rest of the game.

Anything greater than 0 is a free pass. Let him off on Day 1 and he'll do the same on Day 2, then on Day 3...Wrathie's probably a great example of the mindset that sets in here.

I on the other hand had taken a look at Serpentarius' posts and saw some Subconscious Scummy intent, and voted while making a case based on it. Which of us wound up being closer to targeting scum than the other?

Did I defend my case on Serpentarius with various logical fallacies?
Also, define 'subconscious', because from here it sounds like a euphemism for 'gut'.

You call my point of refusing newbies and sending them to Mafiascum to play games designed to teach them "AtE", yet you fully expect them to play as if they've been through two or three of those kinds of games already?

No, I expect them not to sit around and stay confused. I expect them to look up words they don't recognise, not go through entire games before they show up here. I want Tenshi to know the meaning of words like WIFOM and Lylo, and he doesn't need to play full games for the sake of doing that.

About the coaching issue, I really abhor the slippery slope argument that Rou and Carth seem to be pursuing about 'playing the game for him'.  There is a difference between finding a person's mistakes genuinely scummy or not, and 'coaching' has nothing to do with it.

Okay, so what's the difference between a scummy mistake and a non-scummy mistake? If you raise a reasoned argument against a player who ends up flipping Town, it could be a genuine Townie messing up or scum successfully pinning the blame on someone else.

After all, as Zakeri said, it's not as if a person can learn through a piece of advice.

OF COURSE PEOPLE LEARN THROUGH ADVICE. When people tell you 'stop doing this' and explain why it's a bad thing, what happens? If you have half a brain cell you stop doing it. Why is Mafia anything more than a set of rules to follow? 'If player X does this, X is scummy' and so on?

Okay, where do I start with this latest Tenshi post?

I think one of the people who voted me is a scum and is trying to make me look bad but for the moment I won't vote.

General accusation, trying to accuse several people without even having the nerve to name them.

If I was a newbie scum. The situation would have been a lot worse by me saying something like "I vote *name* because he wrote on he post *something suspicious that didn't make*" unless a scum helped me in which my posts will have been better if I was a scum because the scummies would have told me how to post properly and not get caught. But if that happened and I became would became suspicious for being pro like.

This is horrible. Scum do NOT win by outright lying, they win by causing town to misinterpret the facts. They don't make things up out of the blue and expect you to believe them on no evidence.

Now you guys would be like "huh" because suddenly I wrote about something, which has never happened so you guys assume that this is a different person or a scumbuddy is helping him because he is write properly. But that couldn't be possible because this is the way I talk if you have read all my post. Then you guys will think "well couldn't someone close to him write it for him?"

So, all you've proven is that you wrote this yourself? The fact you're explicitly pointing that out is WIFOM at best.

I also would have told the scums that I was a newbie and I needed help then I would have listened to their instruction which I will look less suspicious unless somebody actually knew that I was newbie some how and would vote for me for being too good at Mafia despite being a newbie.

'I'm a new player therefore I can't POSSIBLY be scum'. Blatant fallacy.

Also the scummies wouldn't risk using me as a bait since there are only about 3-4 mafia and if I get caught and got lynched there would only 2-3 people left which would lower the amount of people there are in the mafia unless they wanted to me to get lynched on purpose which wouldn't be very nice and if that happened I would of quit this game already.

This is horrible too. You must be Town because if you were scum no-one would be voting for you?

You know what, forget it. Your posting is horrible, and if we don't lynch you now you'll just spew more of this junk further down the line and we'll have to lynch you anyway.

##Vote: Tenshi (L-2)

In other news, I'm also kinda irritated at Nietz.

And there was nothing concretely suspicious at that point. Was I supposed to pretend having a strong opinion?

No, you were supposed to have an opinion. If your post is nothing but 'it could be this but it could be that' it's explicitly avoiding actually saying something either way.

Where did Jan go?

[Carthrat]

Still think Moon is scummiest around. I get that he's a newbie. His particular brand of newbishness seems more scummy than most.

Also the scummies wouldn't risk using me as a bait since there are only about 3-4 mafia and if I get caught and got lynched there would only 2-3 people left which would lower the amount of people there are in the mafia unless they wanted to me to get lynched on purpose which wouldn't be very nice and if that happened I would of quit this game already.

This in particular stands out, it very much reads as though he's thinking about this purely from the scum perspective, which is far more informative on newer players than them making faulty arguments on other people.

I am also not happy with Jan voting for Serp for targeting Moon, because Serp did not actually vote for Moon until after Jan mentioned that. Jan's post makes no sense. Go read it and note where it is in relation to Serp's. I'd be okay with lynching Jan.

I don't think we need an extension. I don't really see why one is ever necessary in day one.

[FinnKaenbyou]

Hi Alice. Bye Alice. >_>

[Nietz]

Other people didn't seem to be having too much of a problem.

Would it really have been that hard to have an opinion? Why were you trying to avoid having an opinion that wasn't "Strong" enough earlier in day one, when bad opinions are easily excusable?

Wait, you are seriously saying I should've made stuff up just because it was "excusable"? I guess that would be fine if I was scum, but not if I'm trying to actually assess the cases properly.

And for all that Zakeri's post was big, the only thing he presents against me is post summary, repeats some points I've already answered and adds that he's "worried", which sounds like an afterthought to justify a vote.

I'm not feeling any better about Tenshi, Rou has already pointed out pretty much everything that's wrong with him, but it's his saying things to the effect of "I think someone is scum trying to frma em but I won't say who." and "I know you'll say I'm scum because of what I said, but I wrote it myself so that proves I'm town." only makes my belief in his being a noobscum stronger.

[Unesco]

About 3 hours left for the day. I think.

Three and a half, actually. This should be interesting

[FinnKaenbyou]

Yeah, that's a lot less time than I thought we had. >_>

So, at such short notice about the only lynch we can really hold before deadline is Tenshi, and unlessly someone explicitly stops it he'll be lynched anyway according to the rules. Do we go for it or do we take an extension?

Personally I think he's shown no Townie qualities and thus he's worth lynching. >_>

Part my failing for putting days in vote counts, not hours, but part your fault for not paying attention to the deadline time in every votecount

[Maid Xan~]

I feel that moonspeak's latest post pretty much confirms my suspicions at this point. It's all WIFOM and really, really bad logic. At this point all his play is anti-town when not outright scummy.

[Serp]

Okay, so what's the difference between a scummy mistake and a non-scummy mistake? If you raise a reasoned argument against a player who ends up flipping Town, it could be a genuine Townie messing up or scum successfully pinning the blame on someone else.

The way I see it, some mistakes are inherently scummy, like OMGUS'ing someone.  That's because scum are more likely to do it unintentionally.  Their highest priority is to keep themselves from being lynched, so they're more likely to panic and lash out when accused.  Unscummy mistakes are ones that don't betray scummy intent, like mis-reading a votecount.  Sure, in some circumstances, it could benefit scum to pretend to make the mistake, like pretending to think that a person is at L-2 instead of L-1 and then placing a vote on him, but in general, scum are no more likely to make those particular mistakes than townies.

Anyway, Moonspeak's got a lot of examples of scummy quotes, and more importantly, a scummy lack of opinions on anyone but himself.  It's all been addressed already, so there's not much for me to add to the case against him.  I doubt we can get together enough support for an extend, and I'm not sure that it'd be helpful to do that anyway.  Moonspeak is just our best option for lynch at this point.

The way that Moonspeak describes in detail what he'd do if he were scum makes me think that he's been thinking a lot about what he could have done better.  Do they have a concise scumtell name for when a person points out that if he were scum, he would've played way better?

##Unvote
##Vote Moonspeak  (L-1)

Too scummy to be scum mayhap? But I can't find a wiki link.

[Kiro]

Well, Tenshi didn't get around to making a case after all. And I don't think he's going to be active till our current deadline.

I am available to hammer him within the next 2 hours. Gonna see if anyone has any other questions to ask about others and do another quick reread. I'll think about Serp more tomorrow.

##Unvote Serpentarius

[?lice Bl?ckb?rn]

@Roukan: still here.

My opinions on Moonspeak still have not changed. Don't like him at all, don't like a lot of his specific mistakes, still think he's also the best lynch from a purely informational standpoint.

My other choice for lynch today is Jan-san, for reasons others have gone into great detail about already, but to summarize: where the heck is he, and why have most of his actions today been gratuitous jumping onto bandwagons?

Nietz's inability to hold a clear, concise opinion is worrying, especially considering how scum-Nietz works (see GWU, etc). Definetly someone to keep a close eye on during D2 onwards.

Vote stays.

Also, I agree with Carthrat when I think that an Extension on Day Freaking One is both idiotic and pointless, especially at this point in time.

[Suwako Moriya]

@Nietz: I'm saying you should have had an opinion at all. Like I said, other people didn't seem to have a problem with it.

I have no objection to the Tenshi lynch after that latest post, and don't really see a need for an Extension because I can't see anyone else getting lynched. Hammer isn't necessary by the rules but I'm willing to do it anyway if people like.

[WHMZakeri]

Days So's last post is disheartening, since it basically just says to me that he's not trying to understand what he's been doing that makes us want to vote him. Announcing intent to hammer before I have to leave at 2:45 today (15 minutes before deadline.) Actually, scratch that, I'll just let one of the other four people not on the bandwagon, or the autolynch rule pick it up.

---

Anything greater than 0 is a free pass. Let him off on Day 1 and he'll do the same on Day 2,

Alright, I understand your point, but-

then on Day 3...

*facepalm*
I give up.

Also, define 'subconscious', because from here it sounds like a euphemism for 'gut'.

Subconscious: a human's ability to do something without realizing it, i.e. Serpentarius was acting Subconsciously Scummy because he felt at the time that he was playing as he would a townie when I'm certain he wasn't.

...What exactly is the point of sticking buzzwords like "Gut" In there? I'm calling full blown Misrep here, why did you try to make it sound like I was wrong?

---
Neitz:

Wait, you are seriously saying I should've made stuff up just because it was "excusable"? I guess that would be fine if I was scum, but not if I'm trying to actually assess the cases properly.

Except how are we suppose to tell if you're assessing cases properly if all you say is "Null Tell" In regards to a single case for two posts? Especially considering you didn't even comment on the other case that was happening at the same time until after it had been resolved!

And for all that Zakeri's post was big, the only thing he presents against me is post summary, repeats some points I've already answered and adds that he's "worried", which sounds like an afterthought to justify a vote.

So my case on you is invalid because...? Because I worded it as if i was reading through your posts while I was typing it up?

My case on you as it were was that you seem to have trouble commenting on anything besides Whether you think Serpentarius is a Null Tell or a Null Tell, or why ObvScum Easy target Days So is worthy of your vote. You've provided almost nothing of worth unless you count repeating Carthrat's opinion on Me and Jan-san.

[FinnKaenbyou]

Anything greater than 0 is a free pass. Let him off on Day 1 and he'll do the same on Day 2,

Alright, I understand your point, but-

then on Day 3...

*facepalm*
I give up.

What's the problem here? It'll keep going as long as you let him off with it, won't it? Unless you see any obvious signs of improvement in him, which I certainly don't.

Subconscious: a human's ability to do something without realizing it, i.e. Serpentarius was acting Subconsciously Scummy because he felt at the time that he was playing as he would a townie when I'm certain he wasn't.

Alright, I misunderstood your point here. I thought you meant that your suspicion of him was subconscious on your part. Never mind.

[Suwako Moriya]

I'm tired of waiting and a roleclaim is probably a bit too much to ask for given who we would be asking it of. Let's just see a flip already.

##Unvote: Nietz
##Vote: Tenshimoonspeakdayssowhatever

[Pesco]

Hammer SHUT UP!

[Unesco]

The Seventh "Jazz Funeral" Vote Count

Afternoon tea in Shanghai

Roukanken (0)
Affinity (0)
Carthrat (0)
Nietz (1): Zakeri
Suwako Moriya (0)
Xan (1): Affinity
Kiro (0)
Zakeri (0)
Serpentarius (1): Jan-san
Alice (0)
Jan-san (0)
天使 (7): Carthrat, Xan, Alice, Nietz, Roukanken, Serpentarius, Suwako Moriya


Not Voting (2): 天使, Kiro

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch
天使 has been LYNCHED!

[Unesco]

Alright! I'm back from shopping! I found the CUTEST human ears at this one display! So, how are you all...e-ooh...you all really messed up that 天使 guy, didn't you...

Well, that's just +1 souls for me! And how do you feel about this, ZUN?

ZUN: I bet that bastard stole my music! Probably was going to try to steal my beer tonight as well!

Me: Now now, you haven't even let me check out what was in his soul before you made these accusations!

ZUN: wait, you can read souls? Well why not just do that now and we don't have to kill people...well, except the people that stole my music, but they aren't really people anyway!

Me: Um...they have to be dead first.

ZUN: Well fat lot of good YOU are, figment of my imagination! Seriously, why couldn't I have imagined Satori here!

Me: Master doesn't have time to waste finding your music...I just came here cause I'm bored.

ZUN: You know, maybe I really oughtta lay off the beer...

Ah well! Let's see what can be said about 天使...

Hmm...

Oh well! Looks like 天使 was actually Azure & Sands, Townie Jazzy Jailkeep! He did not steal any music it would seem.

Ah well! I like jazz, I'll enjoy this soul!

Oh yeah, for all you perverts who like to do funny stuff at night, send your night actions to Unesco...whatever that means!

Night will end between 24 and 48 hours from now. Remember, if you don't send in a night action, it gets randomized decided by the direction Tewi's spinning carrot lands on.

[Unesco]

*YAAAAAAAAAWN!* I'm awake, and so are some of you other people...but some of you don't seem to have woken up yet...well, I suppose with all the crazy stuff going on it's hard to get some sleep, nyaa~!

Anyway, ZUN is most assuredly awake and still complaining about everything including his lost music...

ZUN: Dammit, you all were retarded yesterday...as if someone as cool as Azure and Sands would need to steal my music!

Orin: Mmm...well, his soul tasted good...well, what was left of it...he put a lot into his music...

ZUN: And you shut up! It's bad enough that my music is stolen, I don't need delerium tremens on top of it!

Orin: I keep telling you, I'm REAL!

ZUN: Yeah, as if I'd believe that!

Orin: Don't make me scratch you!

ZUN: Whatever...just...whatever...

Anyway, it seems everyone has had time to get up...but someone is missing? Hmm...let's see...

OOH! There's a soul in Carthrat's room! Dibs!

* Unesco pushes her cart up to Carthrat's hotel room, takes his soul, does a quick scan and tosses it in. Then she returns to the dealer's room's extradimensional space.

Ahem...Carth is dead. His soul was very metal. He also didn't steal your lame ass music ZUN...but alas,

Carthrat, UI-70, Townie MetalMixer has been beaten to death

You all should get on finding that culprit, ne?