I need a keyboard or something

[Zil]

I considered putting this in Tech Support, but figured this place might be more appropriate.

So basically, my keyboard sucks. If I press the buttons too fast, the character doesn't move. I top of that, it does the whole ghosting thing sometimes, or whatever you call it. I've already heard some advice about better keyboards, but I figured I'd just ask HME in general and see what people say. Basically I'm looking for something without those problems I just mentioned. I think it would also be good if the keys are relatively flat (not a lot of meaningless distance between being pressed and not pressed), and not spaced far apart, but I'm no expert. (Another, somewhat unimportant but kind of useful, thing would be if pressing up and down at the same time makes you move down, but maybe that just depends on the game itself and not the hardware.)

Alternatively, I've been considering trying to play with a controller instead of a keyboard. It seems to me like it might be harder to change directions quickly with a controller, but maybe it's easier to make small movements? I've never tried so I'm not really sure. (I could always just play PCB with the controller and PoDD with the keyboard if that's the case.) On the other hand, I think they might make it easier to alternate between moving up and down, which is a horrible weakness of the keyboard. In any event, since all I can really do at the moment is speculate, can anyone say just what the advantages/disadvantages of controllers are supposed to be, and whether or not they'd be worth using in the long run?

[ARF]

Playing with a laptops default keyboard is a nightmare, you are crazy for doing what you have done on something like that.

I have a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logitech_G11 and it has served me well for touhou on both my desktop and laptop. You can do stuff like timing out nine syllable stabs no vertical no focus pacifist with ReimuC with this, so short taps work quite well.

Also the macro keys allow you to prerecord input which means you can record yourself doing a static attack pattern and record the movements you make, and next time you face that attack you can simply press the key you assigned the macro to and you can AFK for a while  :V :V :V

[Cor]

I'd say it's easier to make precise and quick movements with a keyboard. You've got three fingers instead of a thumb controlling your movement. You might also accidentally move diagonally when you should be going upwards, stuff like that, if you use a stick.

You should really invest in a mechanical keyboard. I use a QPAD MK-85 with CHERRY MX Red switches. CHERRY switches actuate 2mm into the key press, so they're good for quick action. They're usually in keyboards good enough to have N-Key rollover, too. There are many colors of switches- you know what, just check this guide out. After you've used a mechanical keyboard you'll never want to go back to a standard membrane again. Honestly, even though they are $80 and up, so quite pricy, you should get one. You're only gonna be using it all day.

[Sakurei]

> I still use my default keyboard I got when I bought my computer.

I am sure you could purchase is yourself, but I have no fucking clue which one it is.

so, another one I know is really good is the steelseries (yes, it's expensive :v) shift keyboard. its keys are mid-flat. so not laptop flat, but uh...you don't need to wait half an eternity before the kay's actually pressed. I have no fucking idea about the technical stuff, but eh, it works.
it may be a bit too much for shmups, but I like it.

> only buy it if you're desperate or have too much money, it's really pricey.

I have seen 20? keyboardsin shop here in vienna that seemed good enough, too :'D maybe you can take a look at whereever you live, too. could ask the staff then, too. just a tip

[I have no name]

I would not suggest using a controller at all-you have less precision and it's harder to adjust direction.

Also, everything I've done has been with my default laptop keyboard, so it's nowhere near impossible  :V

[chirpy13]

I still maintain that the Logitech Deluxe 250 is awesome.

I would not suggest using a controller at all-you have less precision and it's harder to adjust direction.

Not necessarily, it just depends how comfortable you are with your input device.

[BT]

Microsoft Digital Media Keyboard 3000. Dunno how good it is, but it's what I have, and it works.

I'm pretty sure I had something similar to the Logitech Deluxe at one point.

[Rizlation]

If I press the buttons too fast, the character doesn't move. I top of that, it does the whole ghosting thing sometimes, or whatever you call it.

This happens with keyboard that have low key-rollover. Most laptop and all USB keyboards are going to have this problem, some worse than others. The only way to fix it completely is to use a PS/2 port for the keyboard or buying some very specific brands of laptops. I would recommend the keyboards by far.

Basically I'm looking for something without those problems I just mentioned. I think it would also be good if the keys are relatively flat (not a lot of meaningless distance between being pressed and not pressed), and not spaced far apart, but I'm no expert.

I never liked flat keyboards. I feel like I'm tying my fingers in a knot when I use them.

(Another, somewhat unimportant but kind of useful, thing would be if pressing up and down at the same time makes you move down, but maybe that just depends on the game itself and not the hardware.)

I am fairly certain that this depends on the game.

Alternatively, I've been considering trying to play with a controller instead of a keyboard. It seems to me like it might be harder to change directions quickly with a controller, but maybe it's easier to make small movements? I've never tried so I'm not really sure. (I could always just play PCB with the controller and PoDD with the keyboard if that's the case.)

I would very much not recommend this, especially if you are already used to a keyboard.

On the other hand, I think they might make it easier to alternate between moving up and down, which is a horrible weakness of the keyboard.

Keyboards have that about them. I've even been considering building a custom keyboard and having the directional keys in a straight line. It would take some getting used to, but I think it might be worth it.

In any event, since all I can really do at the moment is speculate, can anyone say just what the advantages/disadvantages of controllers are supposed to be, and whether or not they'd be worth using in the long run?

I don't think that you can match the precision and accuracy of a keyboard with a controller. That's just my opinion.

This is the keyboard I use: http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=leopold,fullsize&pid=fc500rrabn
It's never ghosted on me once in the almost-year I've had it, and it's the best keyboard I've ever used. It's of a much higher quality that any rubber-dome keyboard you will find. If you really want a new keyboard, I would stop at nothing but Cherry MX Red and Black switches, with very few exceptions.

This is a message I wrote to a friend comparing the different switches. I would recommend reading it to get a good idea of how they compare: http://pastebin.com/QQUZmUWC

[Esper]

I use the HP keyboard that came with my computer. Personally I'm planning to get the Logitech G11 keyboard now.

[Cor]

I use the HP keyboard that came with my computer. Personally I'm planning to get the Logitech G11 keyboard now.

Throw in ten bucks more and get a mechanical keyboard.

[Goldom]

Jeez... I've been looking to replace my laptop, but haven't found a single acceptable model based purely on their awful keyboards these days. I'm using a 5 year old Gateway for a laptop, and it plays Touhou just fine - I actually prefer its flat keys to my desktop keyboard. But these days, laptops all have those awful island keys, and some don't even have full up and down arrows. I'd heard the Lenovos were better about not being so islandy, but it looks like that's what you've got, if I recognize it right? Now I just don't know what to replace it with. An external keyboard isn't an option for the times I need to use my laptop, and right now Touhou's the only thing I get to play when I'm stuck on it.

On my higher-end desktop computer, I'm still using the free keyboard that came with a Dell I bought 10+ years ago in the WinME era. And it still works flawlessly.

[Nindella]

This happens with keyboard that have low key-rollover. Most laptop and all USB keyboards are going to have this problem, some worse than others. The only way to fix it completely is to use a PS/2 port for the keyboard or buying some very specific brands of laptops. I would recommend the keyboards by far. I never liked flat keyboards. I feel like I'm tying my fingers in a knot when I use them. I am fairly certain that this depends on the game. I would very much not recommend this, especially if you are already used to a keyboard. Keyboards have that about them. I've even been considering building a custom keyboard and having the directional keys in a straight line. It would take some getting used to, but I think it might be worth it. I don't think that you can match the precision and accuracy of a keyboard with a controller. That's just my opinion.

This is the keyboard I use: http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=leopold,fullsize&pid=fc500rrabn
It's never ghosted on me once in the almost-year I've had it, and it's the best keyboard I've ever used. It's of a much higher quality that any rubber-dome keyboard you will find. If you really want a new keyboard, I would stop at nothing but Cherry MX Red and Black switches, with very few exceptions.

This is a message I wrote to a friend comparing the different switches. I would recommend reading it to get a good idea of how they compare: http://pastebin.com/QQUZmUWC

I like this post.

[Naut]

http://www.logitech.com/en-ca/keyboards/keyboards/6692

Don't waste your money. Have been using this for years. Twenty bucks.

[Cor]

I like this post.

Filling in for Nini, that lazy bastard, who uses a Leopold Tenkeyless Linear Force Keyboard with Cherry MX Black mechanical switches.

[Tsym]

Hm I'm actually using a T420 Thinkpad, and I don't have any problems playing Touhou on this keyboard. I'm guessing that you have an older model, which would explain the keyboard issue.

If you use the computer a lot on a regular basis (I'm guessing you do) and portability isn't an issue, I'd definitely recommend shelling out for a mechanical keyboard. It's a much more comfortable experience compared to a non-mechanical one, and it lasts much, much longer too, so really if you consider longevity, you aren't saving any money by getting a generic keyboard. As long as you're careful to not do things like spill a drink on it (or something similar), then you'll definitely get your money's worth. Besides, keyboard prices are relatively stable, and you aren't going to get a better deal by waiting as with some other computer accessories, so you should probably just get one now.

As for the switches issue, it'd be ideal for you to try out the different switches for yourself and see what you prefer, but if you can't, check out Coreven's link for more details. Really though, it's all a matter of preference, and it's highly likely that if you haven't ever used a mechanical keyboard before, any switch will be fine for you, and that one is likely the one you'll get adjusted to after continued use.

The only real suggestion I have is that if value is a concern, then one of the cheaper and decent mechanical keyboard is the Razer Black Widow. Free shipping at Newegg too, so it'll only run you $70. It has some reported construction issues, but it's probably one of the better and more popular low cost ones. If you're willing to spend up to $100-130 though, then your options dramatically increase, and at that point it'll be your personal preference, because most good mechanical keyboards are around that price range. Personally, I'd say the extra cost is worth it, but it's up to you and  your circumstances.

[Cor]

Razer Black Widow

BlackWidow may be cheaper, but I really wouldn't recommend tactile switches for playing Touhou, or STGs in general. Of course, the Cherry MX Blue switches BlackWidow has are better than membrane switches, I've tried them out myself, but shelling out for Reds or Blacks would be optimal. And I dislike the clicky noise Blues make. :V

"For gamers, by gamers." Tch. Razer should know better than to equip their gaming keyboards with typing-oriented switches. QPAD MK-50 is a 80? mechanical keyboard equipped with switches of your preference, or Cherry MX Reds if bought from a retailer. Still relatively cheap.

[Zil]

Thanks for the advice, folks. Those Cherry MX things do seem pretty nice. If I'm going to use that, it would have to be red, I think. Any extra resistance is just more pain, especially in PoDD and PoFV. However, the only game that I play that puts such an emphasis on microtapping is Perfect Cherry Blossom, and I don't think I want to pay 100 bucks for a game I don't take too seriously. It would be a definite "no" if not for the possibility that I might play other games like that at some point.

So, tomorrow I'm probably going to try out some cheaper keyboards like Naut and Chirpy mentioned, and if I can find one I like, then that will be that. I'm hoping that my current thing is just outlandishly crappy, and a basic keyboard won't be so unresponsive. If not, then I'll probably go for some Cherry MX red switch silliness. Still mostly pointless for PoDD and any Cave game I ever played, but I'd rather not have a nagging fear of glitchiness.

I'd heard the Lenovos were better about not being so islandy, but it looks like that's what you've got, if I recognize it right?

It's a lenovo, yes, but the keys aren't islandy. There's no space between them at all. (If that's what islandy means.)

I've even been considering building a custom keyboard and having the directional keys in a straight line. It would take some getting used to, but I think it might be worth it.

Haha, I've thought about that myself. Not that I'd know the first thing about building a keyboard, but having one finger for each direction would make the up/down thing much easier.


And don't take this post to mean "okay I've heard all I care to hear." I'm still open to suggestions.

[I have no name]

What I do with up and down is "roll" my finger at the 'ridge' between keys, so that I can swap between them easily.  Or if I really need to, I can bring my pointer finger over to down.

Any keyboard without ghosting should be enough, so spending a lot of money probably isn't worth it.

[Goldom]

Zil, what particular model is that laptop and how old is it? Want to make sure I cross it off my list of possibilities if it's a current model, since it looks a lot like the ones I thought might work for me.

[Zil]

It's a Lenovo ThinkPad. I'm not sure exactly what kind, but I'd think they're all going to be more or less the same as far as keyboards go.

[Chalros22]

Alternatively, I've been considering trying to play with a controller instead of a keyboard.

I tried using a contorller once, its really awkward (at least it was for me) to get used to only using my thumb for movement instead of 3 fingers. Also, I would suggest using the dpad and avoid analog sticks at all costs because especially someone who has played the length of time you have will likely find it hard to adjust to a full 360 degree movement range instead of just the 8 directions you can use with keys. But these are just my thoughts, you're better than me so it probably doesn't matter either way.

http://www.logitech.com/en-ca/keyboards/keyboards/6692

Don't waste your money. Have been using this for years. Twenty bucks.

I got it for $15 bucks, but that was this summer when I got my new computer.

[Tsym]

BlackWidow may be cheaper, but I really wouldn't recommend tactile switches for playing Touhou, or STGs in general. Of course, the Cherry MX Blue switches BlackWidow has are better than membrane switches, I've tried them out myself, but shelling out for Reds or Blacks would be optimal. And I dislike the clicky noise Blues make. :V

"For gamers, by gamers." Tch. Razer should know better than to equip their gaming keyboards with typing-oriented switches. QPAD MK-50 is a 80? mechanical keyboard equipped with switches of your preference, or Cherry MX Reds if bought from a retailer. Still relatively cheap.

If you don't like the tactile Blue switches, then you can always grab the Razer BlackWidow Stealth. It uses Brown MX switches instead of Blues, which may preferred. Either way, it's still much, much cheaper than any other mechanical keyboard, and should be the go-to thing if you're looking for a cheap option and can't afford to pay $50 more.

The problem with the one you linked is that the price is in euros for one, which converted to USD is ~$109, not including shipping and handling + sales tax if you're living in the US, which puts it on the more expensive side of things. Aside from that, when you get to that price range for Reds, I'd much rather prefer the keyboard that Rizlation recommended. It's probably one of the cheaper good Reds nowadays given their popularity (and price) boom.

Anyway, Zil, just try substituting a mechanical keyboard for a membrane one for a few hours. You won't want to go back, purely because your fingers will feel far more comfortable.

Zil, what particular model is that laptop and how old is it? Want to make sure I cross it off my list of possibilities if it's a current model, since it looks a lot like the ones I thought might work for me.

I'm actually using the most recent model, the T420, and I have absolutely no problems playing Touhou or Starcraft or any FPS or what have you on the laptop keyboard.

[Cor]

If you don't like the tactile Blue switches, then you can always grab the Razer BlackWidow Stealth. It uses Brown MX switches instead of Blues, which may preferred. Either way, it's still much, much cheaper than any other mechanical keyboard, and should be the go-to thing if you're looking for a cheap option and can't afford to pay $50 more.

Browns are still pretty no-go, but they are better than Blues, definitely.

The problem with the one you linked is that the price is in euros for one, which converted to USD is ~$109, not including shipping and handling + sales tax if you're living in the US, which puts it on the more expensive side of things. Aside from that, when you get to that price range for Reds, I'd much rather prefer the keyboard that Rizlation recommended. It's probably one of the cheaper good Reds nowadays given their popularity (and price) boom.

Oops, yeah. I didn't think about that, being a eurofag myself. What Riz recommended is definitely as good a keyboard as well. The switches are what matters.

[cactu]

I use a K200 but I'd probably go for a cherry black if I had the munneh.

[Zil]

I tried using a contorller once, its really awkward (at least it was for me) to get used to only using my thumb for movement instead of 3 fingers. Also, I would suggest using the dpad and avoid analog sticks at all costs because especially someone who has played the length of time you have will likely find it hard to adjust to a full 360 degree movement range instead of just the 8 directions you can use with keys. But these are just my thoughts, you're better than me so it probably doesn't matter either way.

Yeah, I'd certainly use the d-pad if I were to use a controller. The analog stick would be unthinkable. I guess people are kind of against controllers here though, so I guess it's a non-issue. I know Jaimers at least uses one though, and I wonder what he'd say about it.

Anyway, Zil, just try substituting a mechanical keyboard for a membrane one for a few hours. You won't want to go back, purely because your fingers will feel far more comfortable.

I don't think comfort is really the issue here. In fact, most of those keyboards with thick keys seem far less comfortable than what I have now, with the keys flat and close together. My only reason for replacing this one is to get one that's more responsive to fast button presses and doesn't ghost randomly. (I'm actually beginning to wonder if the advantage of switching between up and down more easily might outweigh the inability to microtap. I might just stick with this keyboard and stop playing PCB altogether.)

[Yukarin]

I've been using a cheap computer keyboard for my daily gaming needs. I don't know the specifics, but I know it was a Logitech, but not those fancy Logitechs you see here in this thread.

I really didn't help much, didn't I?

[LadyScarlet]

I'm using the Apple wired keyboard that came with my computer. I have a Mac and run Touhou and other Windows stuff via Bootcamp. My keyboard works fine except when I'm playing the fighting games. Some combinations don't work (like S+A+Q, which is my keyboard setting for 3A while facing left), which can be an impediment. I'm considering buying another keyboard with my birthday money.

[Jaimers]

I guess people are kind of against controllers here though, so I guess it's a non-issue. I know Jaimers at least uses one though, and I wonder what he'd say about it.

o hai

I have absolutely no idea how people can play these games with a keyboard. For me it's completely uncomfortable and weird and I don't feel in control at all.
I think the last time I used one I couldn't even beat Normal so there you have an idea of how bad I am at them.  :V

However, no input method is superior over the other. Records have been set with keyboards, gamepads and arcade sticks. It's completely preferential.
But yeah don't use an analog stick those things are a deathtrap.

[Ranko Hoshino]

I'm just here to say that I still use a Super NES controller. Playing games with the keyboard is fairly uncomfortable for me too. I may not be great at Touhou, but I do still get lucky at times. :ohdear:

[Kaze_Senshi]

Just commenting to follow the topic  :3

Well I play touhou with my notebook without problems with the keyboard, but I think that one day the keyboard can break and notebook maintenance sucks, so I'll try to test one of these recommended keyboards when I have some money to spend. These days I was trying to play Touhou 9 with a playstation-like controller but I play a hundred times better using a keyboard  :V