Author Topic: An Untitled Mafia - Game Over  (Read 63554 times)

Serela

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Re: An Untitled Mafia - Game Over
« Reply #720 on: November 28, 2013, 05:44:41 AM »
I CAN'T STOP PLAYING MAFIA
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Sky_Paladin

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Re: An Untitled Mafia - Game Over
« Reply #721 on: November 28, 2013, 06:09:24 AM »
Oh geez.  Guys relax. 

Dan was playing miller.  It's his call on how to play it.  For right or wrong or whatever. 

If I was playing miller, I would call it day 1.  Of course if I was scum, maybe I would say I was miller day 1, too.  Because that's how I roll. 

Most of us would declare if we were miller up front.  Dan has a different play style.  He would have survived day 2 if I'd hammered Zak in that half hour window, too. 

Different does not mean wrong.  Take a breath, walk away, come back later.  It's just a game.  It really isn't...worth getting so upset about. 
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Conqueror

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Re: An Untitled Mafia - Game Over
« Reply #722 on: November 28, 2013, 06:44:19 AM »
mafia needs more d1 scum miller claims


On tue un homme, on est un assassin. On tue des millions d'hommes, on est un conqu?rant. On les tue tous, on est un dieu.
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Re: An Untitled Mafia - Game Over
« Reply #723 on: November 28, 2013, 07:19:40 AM »
my buddy in a mafiascum micro did that once and we had a flawless victory, that was cool even if it was a mafiascum game

ActionDan

  • Teaching old dogs new tricks
Re: An Untitled Mafia - Game Over
« Reply #724 on: November 28, 2013, 07:22:05 AM »
I am going to go slowly.

Dan we lynched you because claiming miller after getting a guilty on you is like the most damning thing ever. It came up again in the irc postgame talk and the general consensus was "There is literally no reason to not claim miller in your first post". The reasons not to do so were considered, but were drastically outweighed by how horribly bad it is if your role ever actually comes into play, aka the reason why it's important to claim it.

The night spirit softclaim was also considered but the issue is you can't rely on people to A.Know the flavor B.Actually make the connection from flavor to your role. Even if I had known what the night spirit thing was I wouldn't have assumed it made you a miller and so avoided considering you for investigations >>

the fact that iirc -every other miller in motk history claimed immediately- (at least since I came here like 4 years ago) wouldn't have helped that I wouldn't guess you were one but yeah

There are two things going on here.  You are stating your reason for lynching me in this specific game, specifically, D2, but also ignoring/omitting any and all counterarguments against my lynch.  Your stated reason for my lynch is a discrepancy between what you think is correct miller play vs. my observed play.

I have no idea what the wording of BT's role has to do with claiming or not claiming miller ???

You didn't know what BT's role at the start of the game. It did not factor into whether you did or did not claim. And it was effectively a town cop (with modifiers) which is not an uncommon role (especially if a miller exists in the first place)

anyway this conversation is really unfun because Dan is just being blatantly antagonistic in that post :/


The wording of BT's role is evidence for the existence of a miller and therefore a counterargument for lynching me.  That is also equivalent to the "important details" you ignored/omitted when previously discussing "my lynch".  While clearly proclaiming that I would in the future not claim miller D1 certainly shows that I highly disagree with your assessment on miller meta being definitive, I am not actually touching upon miller meta in any other way.  I am only responding to the validity of "my lynch" in this game.  My frustration is derived from that.

I don't really know what you're implying I'm leaving out. Zakeri almost being lynched over you doesn't really change anything about the situation.

And BT's role saying "dies if a cop would have gotten a guilty result" doesn't make any difference. Normally it would have just been a cop claiming a guilty on you, which is a little less bad, but still practically a disaster (cop wastes night action, cop claiming publically is almost as bad as him dying from the investigation, town wastes lynch on town miller)

I mean, I'm not saying "ugh dan this was so fucking shitty you piece of shit" I'm just saying that this is why normally millers claim and it's not cool how your reaction is to get super passive aggressive and go "I'm never going to claim miller d1 now, suck on that bitches" (partially because it's implying you're fine with this easily avoidable fiasco occurring again)

okay technically you said wifom but it gave off the same feeling and considering it's more or less unanimous from everyone else that millers should always claim d1, backed up with logical reasons why, it just kind of feels like a "I'm going to keep doing it this way as a rebellion against you all" as you explanationlessly blow it off

In your rebuttals, you bring up some topic (such as BT's role description or how important details shouldn't be left out), but then you -completely ignore saying what the actual details/reasons are- leaving me(/us?) with no idea what your point actually is. Because I can't see what it is. :C As far as I can tell you don't have one, as all the things that I come up with trying to interpret, don't really make any sense.

Whooosh! I thought I was clear the 2nd time around but I suppose not.  I hope I am now. 

Don't lynch me.

Re: An Untitled Mafia - Game Over
« Reply #725 on: November 28, 2013, 07:28:35 AM »
the wording of BT's role was evidence for a Godfather more than a miller, or at least I would've taken it that way.

BT

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Re: An Untitled Mafia - Game Over
« Reply #726 on: November 28, 2013, 08:00:48 AM »
Serela isn't arguing for your lynch. he's arguing for not claiming miller immediately being bad.

K4U's post was soild. I feel like this discussion should have ended already.

NekoNekoRex

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Re: An Untitled Mafia - Game Over
« Reply #727 on: November 28, 2013, 11:52:39 AM »
Dan, I think you're missing the point that BT's specific wording is supposed to DAMN you when he unintentionally catches you as Miller, because the wording is what allowed him to get killed (and subsequently get you lynched). It's not supposed to save you just because you can point out the obvious technicality a miller claim would present for the role.

You neglect to remember BT wouldn't have died if you had claimed in the first place, as well.

Your lynch was perfectly valid because you were "scum caught by incredibly damning evidence that your role was red", and no sane townie is going to ignore that kind of thing regardless of the excuses you can offer up.

The point of the Miller role is that you're suspicious in the first place, meaning you're going to get a lot more scrutiny then the average player, and that especially applies to investigation roles when you're caught before you claim.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2013, 11:55:17 AM by NekoNekoRex »
Kilga is this right; like is this person seriously the player, and it's not some alias or something that's designed to be deliberately obfuscating? NekoNekoRex. Who the hell is that :C   ~Poya Aaaa (Serela), Bunny Must Die Mafia

BT

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Re: An Untitled Mafia - Game Over
« Reply #728 on: November 28, 2013, 11:59:39 AM »
Sane townies could have ignored it, though. Dan himself wasn't  acting scummy. Dan's way of crumbing ws sort of townie. Dan's frustration at dead!me and the people who were criticizing his decision came from the fact that he had a decision to defend in the first place. The lynch was arguable.

The decision, not so much. You guys are getting lost in your own argument.

Phoneposting on a bus is hell.

Re: An Untitled Mafia - Game Over
« Reply #729 on: November 28, 2013, 01:45:35 PM »
You sound slightly mad.

Yeah, what did you expect.

Serela

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Re: An Untitled Mafia - Game Over
« Reply #730 on: November 28, 2013, 02:08:17 PM »
I can now understand where you're coming from :D

However everyone is right that what I'm arguing isn't so much your lynch as much as the other thing, yeah. Whether or not you were lynched doesn't change that it's best to avoid the situation occurring, considering that the benefit from not claiming miller is honestly pretty small. (It wouldn't be horribly strange to give a miller an actual role too, IMO, considering it's negative utility- relevant because scum learning your role is the downside of claiming miller)

Also,
Quote
The wording of BT's role is evidence for the existence of a miller and therefore a counterargument for lynching me.
No, because as Prims said there's also the godfather, there's possibility of other weird roles, and lastly-

Wording a rolepm so as to not give away what is or isn't in the setup is just GoodModding(tm)

Even if there was no godfather, miller, tailor, etc- unless it's -supposed- to be clear none of those are in the setup for whatever reason, this is the best way (imo) to word a "weak" role. Unless you actually do want it to activate on a godfather or something but idk that kind of misses the point of having one in the first place

tbh even if it was just worded a plainer way, if someone questioned it's ability to activate on a miller I'd say "of course it does what would you expect, the miller is scum on investigation"

This sort of thing is "Outguessing the mod" shenanigans and not very reliable.

Although, while we're talking about the lynch, I -did- think his D1 play was super weird, I just didn't know if it was scummy or not :/ He was being Oprah with townreads stunningly early and then d2 IIRC he just gave out reads with no reasoning for them. HOWEVER I DON'T REMEMBER D2 VERY WELL SO THAT MIGHT NOT BE TRUE (the game is over so I'm not exactly planning on rereading) (I don't remember what he did ld1 either but I don't think anyone but maybe kilga had a good late d1) I acknowledged the claim could go either way almost each time I talked about it, but I didn't find Dan's play to look particularly townie.

that is however only an opinion `-`
« Last Edit: November 28, 2013, 02:10:04 PM by Serela »
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

ActionDan

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Re: An Untitled Mafia - Game Over
« Reply #731 on: November 28, 2013, 02:31:45 PM »
Dan, I think you're missing the point that BT's specific wording is supposed to DAMN you when he unintentionally catches you as Miller, because the wording is what allowed him to get killed (and subsequently get you lynched). It's not supposed to save you just because you can point out the obvious technicality a miller claim would present for the role.

You neglect to remember BT wouldn't have died if you had claimed in the first place, as well.

Your lynch was perfectly valid because you were "scum caught by incredibly damning evidence that your role was red", and no sane townie is going to ignore that kind of thing regardless of the excuses you can offer up.

The point of the Miller role is that you're suspicious in the first place, meaning you're going to get a lot more scrutiny then the average player, and that especially applies to investigation roles when you're caught before you claim.

I've neglected nothing because I haven't even talked about miller meta besides that fact that I disagree with Serela/K4U's assessment being definitive. 

I'd argue BT not dying would have been worse.  If he were a plain cop my lynch would have been inevitable.   Your last sentence is a reason for not claiming miller.  I have seen people policy lynch miller claims many times.  While you say the lynch was valid that doesn't mean it was a good lynch by any means.  And BT's flip offers only a reason for people to think that I'm scum, it doesn't damn me by any means.  People thinking that it automatically would damn me (and were town) were narrow minded.

I'm fully aware of Serela's attitude towards millers and her argument for claiming miller D1.  But when you start a post with the words "We lynched you because.." I'm pretty sure that's arguing/rationalizing my lynch

To reiterate what I said on IRC, there is literally no reason not to claim miller in your first post if you're a miller.  You do not want town to waste its resources on you if you mess up, and you don't want scum to be able to get away with claiming miller either.  It's just too easy for scum to claim this if townies aren't being reasonable and claiming in their first post.  And I mean, come on Dan, the worst case scenario JUST HAPPENED with you this game.  You killed the town investigative role and got lynched because you didn't claim miller in your first post. :V

Besides, what should make you threatening to scum isn't your role, it's your ability to actually find them,  If you're actually dangerous to the scumteam then they'll have to kill you even if you are a claimed miller.  And hey, if they don't it just means you get to beat them up some more.

what resource besides a cop action can town use on a miller and consider it a "waste".  Any other investigative role will get a result or useful information.  It's not like town trackers/watchers/rolecops/roleblockers/jailkeepers/voyeurs/followers/redirectors/busdrivers/doctors/vigs/etc.  will necessarily not target a claimed miller.  But scum won't target the miller with anything like that once miller claims.  Scum might "waste" some of the above actions otherwise... including potentially their NK.  If scum claims miller how will they know they won't be counterclaimed by a miller that didn't claim D1.   This is of course magically assuming that we are in an environment where this alternative meta is recognized and standard.  Since it is not, I guarantee that if scum claims miller at all it will be on D1; any other time and the scum that claims miller has a high probability of getting lynched, ergo, they won't claim miller and it's not easy for them to do so even if some town decide to not claim miller D1 in some cases.

I do not deny that the WORST happened.  That will always be the risk (and the ONLY risk, though it be a big one).  But that wasn't an unforeseen event.  The WORST happening is probabilistically low, and it's balanced by a good number of smaller advantages.   

As for that last point, if I'm being a threat to the scum team then I should also not be copped.  Every townie should be playing well but the scum only have one (...sometimes two) NKs at their disposal and if it's a choice between super town guy A and super town guy B that's also a miller, I'd choose person A to kill.  And roles make peopling threatening.  If Wraithe were a proven cop I'd say he has a good chance of dying. 

Don't lynch me.

ActionDan

  • Teaching old dogs new tricks
Re: An Untitled Mafia - Game Over
« Reply #732 on: November 28, 2013, 02:47:06 PM »
the wording of BT's role was evidence for a Godfather more than a miller, or at least I would've taken it that way.

yet he was also a tracker.  what's the point of a Godfather if BT can also track it.

Don't lynch me.

Kilgamayan

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Re: An Untitled Mafia - Game Over
« Reply #733 on: November 28, 2013, 02:52:44 PM »
The GF isn't going to return town if it's on the hunt, so BT either would have died or tracked it nowhere depending on whether or not it made the kill.
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Shadoweh

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Re: An Untitled Mafia - Game Over
« Reply #734 on: November 28, 2013, 02:55:24 PM »
This isn't mafiascum, Dan. People don't lynch millers here for being millers.
I agree that the judgement of whether to claim is subjective. Subjectively though, you're not the kind of person who can get away with not claiming it. You make too good of a copping target.


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Serela

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Re: An Untitled Mafia - Game Over
« Reply #735 on: November 28, 2013, 03:12:13 PM »
Quote
I have seen people policy lynch miller claims many times.
this is stupid and doesn't happen here

Although it's terrible that a ed1 miller claim would be policy lynched anywhere.

Dan:If there's a miller there's probably some town rolepower that can get a wasted result on it (a result that will also cause a guilty and lead into the fiasco we had here), and anything that gets a result messed with by a miller means it's probably cop-tier powerful which is the most OP role that appears on a regular basis, whose results are like gold.

Scum are generally shooting in the dark with their own powerroles for the first night or two, I don't perceive the tradeoff of them possibly wasting an action on a miller as a significant advantage, certainly not with the risk of not claiming miller, at least.

And here's the other thing- the chances of scum using a PR on the miller aren't wildly higher then the chances of a cop targetting the miller, purely odds-wise. Yeah, they likely have more then one action to use which makes it more likely- but even if they do, the benefit isn't terribly huge- they probably would have targetted a VT, and if they got a real PR by luck there's still a good chance the PR wouldn't have gotten a useful result anyway. If they already KNEW who was a PR then being unclaimed miller doesn't change anything, so it only helps when they're making shots in the dark. A cop hitting a miller is a gigantic detriment to town because the miller is likely to get mislynched, in addition to the cop basically guaranteeing never getting another result and wasting the one from the night they hit the miller- and the chances of that occurring are probably close enough to (not by any means equal, but not negligible in comparison to)  the chance scum's PR would actually succeed in doing something useful with their PRs on blind shots.

I mean, I guess technically in the end this comes down to a playstyle difference, but I can't even imagine the risk v. benefit being anywhere near worthwhile to not claim miller in any given situation. On MotK they usually aren't even heavily scrutinized (provided it's claimed immediately) any more then the other players.

« Last Edit: November 28, 2013, 03:14:36 PM by Serela »
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

DNAbc

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Re: An Untitled Mafia - Game Over
« Reply #736 on: November 28, 2013, 03:12:37 PM »
Dan. Theres the factoe you ignored that we are biased. It looked damning as hell because you didnt explain why it was plausible and actually discuss soundly with logic and sincerity instead of what you did. Flailing around a scenario and insisting on it without elaboration nor comparison to the playerbase here and etcetera. We are at fault that time for not pointing how your attitude is damning because said attitude combined with the fact that you didnt bother to elaborate on you nomiller claim calmly and in detail like what you are doing now is scummy. And that means we are lead to suspect your deliberately omitting info that is your mindset to us.

Had you really tried to not die. Dan. You couldve done what you are doing now and holia. Just because the train of thought that involves us to come to the conclusion you are bullshitting is complicated as fuck factoring in your track record and not just logic alone and we have no imminient necessity to explain to obvscum. Yet you do however. You onehanded knocked cheez into supertown zone. Killed bt and yourself for not trying hard enough. You really arent in a position to rage here. Lets just move on.
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Serela

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Re: An Untitled Mafia - Game Over
« Reply #737 on: November 28, 2013, 03:16:05 PM »
darkie I'm sorry but most of what you said isn't what actually happened

normally I might elaborate but I just realized if I don't make this pie -right now- I'm not going to HAVE time to make it before work. And it needs 4 hours to set so I have to do it BEFORE WORK

speaking of that, tearing self away from computer

edit:I had to call in late to work because of minor screwups (oops) but this pie tastes amazing, now to put it in the fridge (...wait do I cover it first or not D: Oh whatever)
« Last Edit: November 28, 2013, 03:56:43 PM by Serela »
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Raikaria

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Re: An Untitled Mafia - Game Over
« Reply #738 on: November 29, 2013, 07:49:30 PM »
I don't know who's fault it is; but I will draw attention to this fact:

Serela lived to LYLO as town.
Town lost.

NOTHING NEW HERE. [I'm sure I called this during RVS or something]


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Re: An Untitled Mafia - Game Over
« Reply #739 on: November 29, 2013, 07:58:23 PM »
Why would you want the cop to waste their action?  Yes, I was obviously referring to town investigative roles (there are miller variants for trackers/watchers/whatever too).  Having scum not roleblock/whatever you is not worth having the investigative role not only waste their action on you when they could have gotten another confirmed townie/scum result.  That is such a huge boon for town that you do not want to waste it.  Further, if they get a guilty result on you then it's not unreasonable for them to want to lynch you, which no only wastes their power, but wastes a town lynch as well.  If someone thought you were scummy enough to investigate you are probably scummy enough to lynch, therefore it's not unreasonable for people to want to lynch you when you claim miller after you get investigated.  It makes you look really, really bad because any scum can just go OH HI I'M A MILLER and there's no way of telling if they're being honest.  Considering investigative roles are supposed to find scum it's reasonable for the investigative role to assume you're scum if they cop you and it's reasonable for townies to want to believe the investigative role too.  Nothing should be accepted blindly, but something like this makes people look really bad.

I've seen scum try to claim miller or insane cop or whatever after they were copped as a last ditch effort to stay alive before.  I've never seen scum claim miller D1 and put that spotlight on them, though I think it would be a valid gambit.  I think it's okay for town if they do that as well because a miller claim is null; all you're doing is telling town investigative roles to leave you alone and get info on someone else.  The person should still be judged for how they play regardless of the claim.  I wasn't reading the game closely enough to judge yours, but I stand by the statement I made earlier: if you are scummy enough to be investigated you are scummy enough to be lynched.  I don't think anyone can just blame everyone else and act like they did nothing wrong when they get lynched.

I'm not denying that roles make people threatening, but they're of lesser importance to actually getting scum lynched.  Even if you're acting super townie it's possible to set off someone's gut on accident and have them cop you.  The entire point of claiming miller in your first post is to prevent the investigative role from wasting an action on you.  It means that even if you happen to mess up that you won't screw town over.  That's it.   That advantage is much stronger than potentially eating a roleblock if the scumteam randomly picks you early on.  Claiming miller should have no bearing on how you play: you still want to catch scum.  Scum will kill based on what they think is most dangerous to them most of the time.  If you are the most dangerous thing then you can still eat a NK for a PR, and there are many cases where the townie dude is more dangerous than the town PR.  If Wrathie was a cop then sure, he'd be a high priority NK target because anyone can play a cop well, but if he was a doc?  I'd probably pick the townie guy.
My favorite mythical creature? The honest politician.
A life cool.. where can I download one of those?
Hurray for apathy!

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Re: An Untitled Mafia - Game Over
« Reply #740 on: November 29, 2013, 10:55:57 PM »
Why would you want the cop to waste their action?  Yes, I was obviously referring to town investigative roles (there are miller variants for trackers/watchers/whatever too).  Having scum not roleblock/whatever you is not worth having the investigative role not only waste their action on you when they could have gotten another confirmed townie/scum result.  That is such a huge boon for town that you do not want to waste it.  Further, if they get a guilty result on you then it's not unreasonable for them to want to lynch you, which no only wastes their power, but wastes a town lynch as well.  If someone thought you were scummy enough to investigate you are probably scummy enough to lynch, therefore it's not unreasonable for people to want to lynch you when you claim miller after you get investigated.  It makes you look really, really bad because any scum can just go OH HI I'M A MILLER and there's no way of telling if they're being honest.  Considering investigative roles are supposed to find scum it's reasonable for the investigative role to assume you're scum if they cop you and it's reasonable for townies to want to believe the investigative role too.  Nothing should be accepted blindly, but something like this makes people look really bad.

I've seen scum try to claim miller or insane cop or whatever after they were copped as a last ditch effort to stay alive before.  I've never seen scum claim miller D1 and put that spotlight on them, though I think it would be a valid gambit.  I think it's okay for town if they do that as well because a miller claim is null; all you're doing is telling town investigative roles to leave you alone and get info on someone else.  The person should still be judged for how they play regardless of the claim.  I wasn't reading the game closely enough to judge yours, but I stand by the statement I made earlier: if you are scummy enough to be investigated you are scummy enough to be lynched.  I don't think anyone can just blame everyone else and act like they did nothing wrong when they get lynched.

I'm not denying that roles make people threatening, but they're of lesser importance to actually getting scum lynched.  Even if you're acting super townie it's possible to set off someone's gut on accident and have them cop you.  The entire point of claiming miller in your first post is to prevent the investigative role from wasting an action on you.  It means that even if you happen to mess up that you won't screw town over.  That's it.   That advantage is much stronger than potentially eating a roleblock if the scumteam randomly picks you early on.  Claiming miller should have no bearing on how you play: you still want to catch scum.  Scum will kill based on what they think is most dangerous to them most of the time.  If you are the most dangerous thing then you can still eat a NK for a PR, and there are many cases where the townie dude is more dangerous than the town PR.  If Wrathie was a cop then sure, he'd be a high priority NK target because anyone can play a cop well, but if he was a doc?  I'd probably pick the townie guy.
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Re: An Untitled Mafia - Game Over
« Reply #741 on: November 30, 2013, 12:23:53 AM »
sry too busy lurking through Mafia
My favorite mythical creature? The honest politician.
A life cool.. where can I download one of those?
Hurray for apathy!

DA|Tumblr

ActionDan

  • Teaching old dogs new tricks
Re: An Untitled Mafia - Game Over
« Reply #742 on: November 30, 2013, 07:07:10 AM »
I understand why people claim miller D1 and why people are entitled to lynch a miller claim after D1; however, I'd argue that in this game the wording of BT's should have made people think harder than relying on standard policy.  I agree with Serela that the wording of role wouldn't guarentee millers/GFs/etc. and that the role was designed quite well.  However, it's definitely unusual in that it's the first time MOTK has since that particular wording.   Any other 'weak' ability was always more or less worded 'you die if you target scum'.   In combination with the 'experimental' nature of the game, outguessing the mod is valid. 

I set up an equation like this.

(probability of risk)(risk effect) >? (probability of benefit)(effect of benefit).   First I think determining which quantity is greater is hard to determine and is not clearcut.  and secondly, even if one outweighs the other, an individual can still choose the less optimal path if they think they can play to its strengths and avoid it's weaknesses competently.     


Don't lynch me.

Re: An Untitled Mafia - Game Over
« Reply #743 on: November 30, 2013, 11:05:48 AM »
I think during the game, I agreed with the less optimal path part. The problem is the less optimal path had such severe weaknesses that only the legendarily strong players would be able to overcome them. I don't mean this as an offense to you Dan, because I know I could never get away with not claiming miller day one either.

but, specifically talking about this game, I feel like lynching you over myself was the correct answer simply because you would have always had that serious question hanging over yourself, while I had the quicktopic and Serela's reads to back me up into safe territory. The most solid piece of evidence people would have ever had on you the entire game would be BT killing himself on your role.
Take a look at Sky Paladin's case against me on day 3 This was the major tipping point in making Sky a viable wagon since a lot of people noticed his play being "Somewhat off" and I even went so far as to attempt to demonstrate that his emotional reaction was disproportionate to the case against me, which was just the fact that I was lazy and a slow reader. Try to imagine what the same emotional response, words included, would look like if he had been yelling about how unhelpful you were in lynching scum, on top of killing a town power role and how nobody is listening to him because they all believe a roleclaim that wasn't claimed "properly" as we've defined it so far. I think if he had that material to work with, the emotion wouldn't seem so displaced. In fact, I might have given him townie points from the graveyard.

I seriously don't think people would have an easy time swallowing down that the wording of BT's role means you're telling the truth. Even if outguessing the mod was valid this one time, not everybody is going to trust in that theory, and nobody would have blamed anybody else for not having that trust, which means scum would have had more places to hide.

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Re: An Untitled Mafia - Game Over
« Reply #744 on: November 30, 2013, 12:38:21 PM »
I actually think my case on IHNN was way better than the Zakeri case on Day 2 and I was like WTF why are people voting Zakeri. 
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Re: An Untitled Mafia - Game Over
« Reply #745 on: November 30, 2013, 03:13:37 PM »
I could have easily argued (Actually I might have done so too) that scum could easily push the same claim and wordings in relation to BT's role. Sure, if I had been caught, I could have claimed Miller and you could have counterclaimed, but that's definitely not reason enough to hide the role, since as scum I have at least a dozen other possible ways to try and save my ass, while you only have one honest one.

Trying to outguess the mod is lame and is a good reason why some mods (including me) include red herrings just to keep people from trying to outguess my setup, like the one-shot Lawyer Ninja in my Villains Anonymafia game (when there was a tracker but not a cop).
« Last Edit: November 30, 2013, 03:22:11 PM by NekoNekoRex »
Kilga is this right; like is this person seriously the player, and it's not some alias or something that's designed to be deliberately obfuscating? NekoNekoRex. Who the hell is that :C   ~Poya Aaaa (Serela), Bunny Must Die Mafia

Re: An Untitled Mafia - Game Over
« Reply #746 on: November 30, 2013, 07:12:25 PM »
Trying to outguess the mod is lame and is a good reason why some mods (including me) include red herrings
Emphasis mine.
Pretty much this.