Author Topic: [RO] Ragnarok Online - now with our own IRC!  (Read 98264 times)

Chaore

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Re: Ragnarok Online - now with our own IRC!
« Reply #150 on: January 25, 2011, 08:58:56 PM »
The only other skill (that wouldn't use a bow) I could think of that Archer Skeleton would work on is Spear Boomerang.  Do people really cheese that?
Shield Boomerang. Shield Chain. ESPECIALLY Shield Chain.

Shield Chain is pretty much the main damaging skill as a Paladin if you don't want to nearly kill yourself using GC. At that, it isn't effected by weapon attack so you can just get a high slot cheap weapon and slap a bunch of archer skeleton cards on for a rather sizable attack boost (around 1.2k going on a good deal of monsters with decent Str, going by experience). Couple this with a good shield (Sheild's weight and refinement improve damage, and Cross Shields also give a +30% damage boost) and you can easily hit some very high numbers.

Paladins however, can not use Bows. This is pretty much the issue with this change.

helvetica

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Re: Ragnarok Online - now with our own IRC!
« Reply #151 on: January 25, 2011, 09:35:33 PM »
I didn't know if Shield Chain/Boomerang was affected it.  Spiral Pierce is purely STR + weapon weight.


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He thought that on that same day he was to take the city of Priam, but he little knew what was in the mind of Jove, who had many another hard-fought fight in store alike for Danaans and Trojans."


Edible

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Re: Ragnarok Online - now with our own IRC!
« Reply #152 on: January 25, 2011, 09:47:06 PM »
I didn't know if Shield Chain/Boomerang was affected it.  Spiral Pierce is purely STR + weapon weight.

Any attack over range 4 is considered long range, and thus benefits from bLongAtkRate (which archer skeleton adds 10 to).  This is true of shield chain, boomerang, spiral pierce, etc.

trancehime

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Re: Ragnarok Online - now with our own IRC!
« Reply #153 on: January 25, 2011, 11:13:13 PM »
I didn't know if Shield Chain/Boomerang was affected it.  Spiral Pierce is purely STR + weapon weight.

Spiral Pierce's damage is indirectly based on STR because it runs off of raw ATK and weapon.weight, however as Edible mentioned, because it is considered a long range attack alongisde SC/SB it used to be benefit by the SA card.

Too bad that's no longer the case! Now tanks can actually tank!

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Chaore

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Re: Ragnarok Online - now with our own IRC!
« Reply #154 on: January 25, 2011, 11:52:43 PM »
Too bad that's no longer the case! Now tanks can actually tank!

;A; as if we weren't faced with this attitude enough already.

Though to be fair, the SA card isn't irreplacable. Racial Damaging and Element Damaging cards both work far more effectively and do pretty much the same thing for the attacks.

The PROBLEM is that these cards are both situational and far harder to get than Skeleton Archer cards. On top of -that-, You need multiple weapons for each set of cards. So these cards are -way- more impractical to use for a larger bonus, which generally meant the SA cards were probably more commonly used. So this is a huge middle finger to both Swordsman classes, generally the classes who you know get the most shit by nature of being the tanks. Thanks, Gravity!

Amusingly, Because Paladins -don't- need sweet tricked out weaponry for Shield Chain, they get middle-fingered the least here. Given, they also benefited the most from having the most card slots to use SA cards in anyway.

Edit: Well they didn't pre-renewal, atleast. Renewal made Weapon Refine+Weapon Atk effect Shield Chain. I'm not sure how this changes things. (Probably a great deal, actually.)
« Last Edit: January 26, 2011, 12:15:38 AM by Chaore »

helvetica

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Re: Ragnarok Online - now with our own IRC!
« Reply #155 on: January 26, 2011, 02:58:29 AM »
Any attack over range 4 is considered long range, and thus benefits from bLongAtkRate (which archer skeleton adds 10 to).  This is true of shield chain, boomerang, spiral pierce, etc.
Huh, so Spiral can be blocked by Pneuma then?  Never knew~


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He thought that on that same day he was to take the city of Priam, but he little knew what was in the mind of Jove, who had many another hard-fought fight in store alike for Danaans and Trojans."


trancehime

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Re: Ragnarok Online - now with our own IRC!
« Reply #156 on: January 26, 2011, 09:37:08 AM »
Huh, so Spiral can be blocked by Pneuma then?  Never knew~

Yeah, Spiral can be blocked by Pneuma. That is how a lot of my LK friends deal with MVPs who use SPierce like SK.

;A; as if we weren't faced with this attitude enough already.

Shield Chain/Spiral Pierce/other damaging skills are luxury. Provoke and other related skills are the main tanking skills. LKs and Paladins are not meant to deal heavy damage to the MVP, that is what Snipers and SinXes are for. LKs and Paladins are supposed to absorb the brunt of punishment from the MVPs and its slaves. If the slaves put too much pressure, you have Wizards to clear them out. Getting rid of the most common card used to boost SPierce and SChain damage only hampers their ability to level (which admittedly can be a big deal if you solo often, which as an LK/Paladin you shouldn't be in the first place). It deals no blow to their ability to tank. When you're tanking, you are not aiming to deal a lot of damage, you are aiming to TANK. If you're dealing low damage while tanking, why should you care? Other people will be dealing the damage instead of you, you should have known what you were getting into when you chose a class designed that way. If you really wanted to be a damage dealing LK anyway, you'd go the 2HzerkLK build which is fucking terrible anyway since it just makes you into a crappy pseudo-SinX that dies faster.


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Esifex

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Re: Ragnarok Online - now with our own IRC!
« Reply #157 on: February 01, 2011, 10:36:49 PM »
If you really wanted to be a damage dealing LK anyway, you'd go the 2HzerkLK build which is fucking terrible anyway since it just makes you into a crappy pseudo-SinX that dies faster.

That being said, though, it pisses me off to no end that SinXs get a fucking ridiculous boost to their HP per point of Vit. Why the fuck does a sneaky, cloak-n-dagger, high damage class need to have a huge HP pool? If you can tolerate leveling with Vit instead of Agi as a SinX you can end up being a very potent tank with obnoxious damage output, to boot. Sure, you won't have AS MUCH health as a Paladin or a LK, of course. But you can still wear heavy classes of armor (Swordsman, Merchant, and Thieves all wear heavy basic gear, and on top of that, the Odin's Blessing sets are wearable by all classes), and none of the SinX skills rely on high ASPD to deal damage - Meteor Assault, Soul Destroyer, Sonic Blow... those are all one-shot 'kill it dead' skills that are on-par or better than Spiral Pierce or Shield Chain - and they can be spammed just as quickly, if not faster in the case of Meteor Assault. Factor in that the SinX can just Hide or Cloak away if the mob gets to be too much, something that LKs and Paladins can't do without sacrificing an accessory slot on a Smokie card or wasting years of their life farming a SinX Eremes card, it tips the scales heavily in the SinX's favor.

tl;dr FUCKING SINXES

helvetica

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Re: Ragnarok Online - now with our own IRC!
« Reply #158 on: February 02, 2011, 12:20:21 AM »
I dunno, you have to think survivability is a huge factor when it comes to mDPS.  When you get to a certain point in the game, flee means jack shit, and you're going to take damage, especially in melee range.  You're right, unless you're doing a DD Sin build, AGI is very useless, and if you can tolerate 1 AGI you can easily make a very good pure SBlow/SBK sin.  But you also have to realize SinX lacks a LOT of good tank abilities.  Sure HP is great, and they can wear MOST of the good tank gear (read most), but compared to an LK/Pally they're pretty poor tanks.  They get no damage mitigation skills like Defender or Parry.  All their builds require them to forgo shields entirely so no Magni Cap/Stone Buckler combo.  Even basic things like Endure and Moving/Increase HP Recovery make a big deal (although Backslide is a decent substitute for escape).

A SinX isn't a tank.  The high HP mod is so they don't die to a stiff breeze while in melee if they're a Katar/SBlow build (and they WILL get targetted if they're in melee range, either by the boss or by mobs).  SBK build can't pump VIT because they need maxed INT/STR and high DEX to get the most damage output.  DD Sin gets the highest DPS but it can't pump VIT either because it needs very high AGI for ASPD and DEX in order to hit things.


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He thought that on that same day he was to take the city of Priam, but he little knew what was in the mind of Jove, who had many another hard-fought fight in store alike for Danaans and Trojans."


Esifex

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Re: Ragnarok Online - now with our own IRC!
« Reply #159 on: February 03, 2011, 04:33:37 AM »
Well, the massive hp pool pisses me off more in PvP than it does in PvE or MVP fights. Even if it's a SinX on another party fighting mine for the MVP award, I won't give a damn if he has 99 vit over 99 agi. But when I'm fighting one on one in PvP with one and the fucker just tanks everything you can throw at him while mauling you for 3k a swing with EDP, it gets a little ridiculous. You can't try to Ankle Snare or Spiderweb them in place or they'll just maul you with SBK or hide and Grimtooth you if you're dumb enough to stay in range, and they can just cloak and creep up on you while you have to wait for them to come out if you don't have any targetable AoE skills (think Champions and Merchants for this one), putting you purely on the defensive.

Of course, when someone busts out their SinX in PvP, I typically bust out the Wizards and just spam the fuck out of Heaven's Drive and Thunderstorm. That keeps 'em earnest, though again, you run the risk of being murdered in one shot if they get the drop on you.

WTB>Maya P card

trancehime

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Re: Ragnarok Online - now with our own IRC!
« Reply #160 on: February 03, 2011, 12:23:23 PM »
Of course, when someone busts out their SinX in PvP, I typically bust out the Wizards and just spam the fuck out of Heaven's Drive and Thunderstorm. That keeps 'em earnest, though again, you run the risk of being murdered in one shot if they get the drop on you.

WTB>Maya P card

it's fun when people use AD on max vit SinXes


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Dormio Ergo Sum

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Re: Ragnarok Online - now with our own IRC!
« Reply #161 on: February 03, 2011, 12:30:58 PM »
Or when someone investigates (occult impaction) them.

helvetica

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Re: Ragnarok Online - now with our own IRC!
« Reply #162 on: February 03, 2011, 06:16:41 PM »
Hmm, a class designed for melee DPS, is somehow good at it?  Whodathunk :V  Seriously though, complaining about class balance in solo PvP is pointless as there will be classes that are MUCH better than others at it, period.

Which is why I tend to not give a crap about solo PvP.  Group PvP/WoE is a complete different story for SinXs.


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He thought that on that same day he was to take the city of Priam, but he little knew what was in the mind of Jove, who had many another hard-fought fight in store alike for Danaans and Trojans."


Esifex

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Re: Ragnarok Online - now with our own IRC!
« Reply #163 on: February 03, 2011, 09:14:58 PM »
Hmm, a class designed for melee DPS, is somehow good at it?  Whodathunk :V 
And at tanking. It's not just class balance, it's literally, a smart SinX can wreck anyone in PvP, especially when they have buckets of Vit - you just can't kill the bastards before they rape you three ways from Sunday and then bring you back to fuck you sideways. The only thing that I've noticed can handle any SinX build excluding Meteor Assault spam is a shield Paladin with Gloria Domini spam, and even then, who the hell gets that? Points better spent in Devotion, honestly.

helvetica

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Re: Ragnarok Online - now with our own IRC!
« Reply #164 on: February 03, 2011, 09:19:59 PM »
And at tanking. It's not just class balance, it's literally, a smart SinX can wreck anyone in PvP, especially when they have buckets of Vit - you just can't kill the bastards before they rape you three ways from Sunday and then bring you back to fuck you sideways. The only thing that I've noticed can handle any SinX build excluding Meteor Assault spam is a shield Paladin with Gloria Domini spam, and even then, who the hell gets that? Points better spent in Devotion, honestly.
A Full Strip Stalker?  SinXs can't detect and only have a really poor AoE, so Stalkers can abuse Stealth/Backstab for massive damage.  And with no AGI they're going to take all the damage (and won't be able to avoid the strip).  VIT doesn't mean shit when you have all your items divest and you can't attack back.

VIT's a liability vs Champions and Creators anyways (and any class that can wield an Ice Pick).


Twitter: @hipsterfont | Discord: helvetica#0573 | LINE: hipsterfont

He thought that on that same day he was to take the city of Priam, but he little knew what was in the mind of Jove, who had many another hard-fought fight in store alike for Danaans and Trojans."


Esifex

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Re: Ragnarok Online - now with our own IRC!
« Reply #165 on: February 03, 2011, 09:41:14 PM »
Now that we're on the topic of Stalkers :D!

Full Strip is a nasty skill, yes, but it's also a double-edged sword. The after-cast delay from each attempt is painful; if it fails, you've got a right large bit of time before you can do anything, including attack. However, the individual Divests don't have any aftercast delay, so if you go in order of the most critical gear - Weapon, Armor, Helm, Helm, Shield (if they wear a shield), you can potentially pop off all the parts immediately, and on the off-chance that they fail, well, hey, you have no aftercast delay to mess you up. Backslide if necessary, Chase Walk, Hide, whatever.
Multiple casts of Divest Helm to pull off middle and lower headgear, as well - or upper, if it stripped off mid/low the first time around.

The only advantage that Full Strip has over the individual strips is that it doesn't actually pop up over your character if it fails with a goofy 'Full Strip !!' banner. But you still have to be within one tile of the target, so it gets rather obvious what you're up to if you're humping their leg and not doing any attacks or hiding or Raiding or whatevering.
Also, Dex and Luk are the Divest defense stats - not Agi.

helvetica

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Re: Ragnarok Online - now with our own IRC!
« Reply #166 on: February 03, 2011, 09:45:59 PM »
Oh I thought it was AGI.  Either way FS Stalker is going to have no problems divesting a SinX as they tend to only get 50 or so DEX in order to connect hits at a decent rate.


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He thought that on that same day he was to take the city of Priam, but he little knew what was in the mind of Jove, who had many another hard-fought fight in store alike for Danaans and Trojans."


Kirin

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Re: Ragnarok Online - now with our own IRC!
« Reply #167 on: February 04, 2011, 05:31:22 PM »
Complete newbie to RO here. Hopping on Essence. Once I get the client downloaded.

Reading through four pages of builds and discussions has left my mind sore. Is min-maxing really that important?

Edit: Actually, stupid question. Min-maxing is ALWAYS important. >_> Well, I'll just putter my way through my first character and see how things go then.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2011, 05:34:56 PM by Kirin »

helvetica

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Re: Ragnarok Online - now with our own IRC!
« Reply #168 on: February 04, 2011, 05:36:40 PM »
I'm... not sure who plays on essence anymore.  We've (as in MotK) had our own server for about a month now.


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He thought that on that same day he was to take the city of Priam, but he little knew what was in the mind of Jove, who had many another hard-fought fight in store alike for Danaans and Trojans."


Kirin

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Re: Ragnarok Online - now with our own IRC!
« Reply #169 on: February 04, 2011, 07:21:28 PM »
Oh. And that would be HatRO, I'm guessing? I'm SO lost right about now. It was 3am when I posted that. I knew you guys had your own server, but I didn't see anyone posting about switching or anything, so I assumed both servers had MotK people on them.

Could I have a link to HatRO, if you don't mind?

helvetica

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Re: Ragnarok Online - now with our own IRC!
« Reply #170 on: February 04, 2011, 07:28:40 PM »
http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8045.0.html

I never played on Essence so I don't know how many people are on it.  It is a different server and they're doing different things (namely they have 3rd jobs and we don't).  So I think there's still some people on there.


Twitter: @hipsterfont | Discord: helvetica#0573 | LINE: hipsterfont

He thought that on that same day he was to take the city of Priam, but he little knew what was in the mind of Jove, who had many another hard-fought fight in store alike for Danaans and Trojans."


Esifex

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Re: Ragnarok Online - now with our own IRC!
« Reply #171 on: February 04, 2011, 07:39:55 PM »
The Essence population has dwindled down to only about five or six different people now, actually.

Solais

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Re: Ragnarok Online - now with our own IRC!
« Reply #172 on: February 04, 2011, 11:39:07 PM »
Yeah I don't play on Essence either, because no-one is playing there. I'm kinda monitoring HatRO, because it has a lot better potential than essence, doing things right or even better than the official servers, though recently I barely heard anything about that server.

helvetica

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Re: Ragnarok Online - now with our own IRC!
« Reply #173 on: February 05, 2011, 03:12:50 AM »
"That" server?  You mean our server :b

Activity has dropped a bit from school starting up again, but I'm planning an event in the next couple of weeks for Valentine's Day.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2011, 03:18:09 AM by ♪ Trans-Siberian Orchestra ♫ »


Twitter: @hipsterfont | Discord: helvetica#0573 | LINE: hipsterfont

He thought that on that same day he was to take the city of Priam, but he little knew what was in the mind of Jove, who had many another hard-fought fight in store alike for Danaans and Trojans."


Kirin

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Re: Ragnarok Online - now with our own IRC!
« Reply #174 on: February 05, 2011, 05:24:22 AM »
Just finished downloading everything to do with HatOnline. Gonna start installing soon. Time to go read up on some guides while it's installing.

Edit: Any recommendations for a first time player? I like solo'ing, but wouldn't mind a bit of partying every now and again. Also, will there be stat resets for screwed up builds, or will I just have to restart my character?

Edit2: Found out that the Stat reset NPC is in progress. Looks fine to me.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2011, 06:07:39 AM by Kirin »

Esifex

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Re: Ragnarok Online - now with our own IRC!
« Reply #175 on: February 05, 2011, 03:24:07 PM »
Good starting characters are Hunters and Assassins, from what I recall. Just find out what the two primary stats are and focus on those and you'll be fine for a lot of levels to come. Hunters have the added advantage of, once you get the 'Craft Arrow' quest skill, being able to pump out elemental arrows for increased damage on particular targets. Very handy. Assassins can Cloak, Hide, or Backslide away from sticky situations, and specialize in being agile characters who dodge a lot of attacks.

Kirin

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Re: Ragnarok Online - now with our own IRC!
« Reply #176 on: February 06, 2011, 03:54:44 AM »
Thanks for the info. I had a bit of a chat on the IRC, and started an Assassin. Still a Thief at the moment, but getting there. He's not dodging a lot of attacks though.

trancehime

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Re: Ragnarok Online - now with our own IRC!
« Reply #177 on: February 06, 2011, 04:13:02 AM »
Thanks for the info. I had a bit of a chat on the IRC, and started an Assassin. Still a Thief at the moment, but getting there. He's not dodging a lot of attacks though.

Flee only starts to pick up at high levels of AGI

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helvetica

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Re: Ragnarok Online - now with our own IRC!
« Reply #178 on: February 06, 2011, 09:40:23 AM »
Flee also goes up with level.  Really AGI only adds a small amount of flee (same with DEX adding hit).  Most of it is going to come simply from levelling/maxing out improve dodge.


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He thought that on that same day he was to take the city of Priam, but he little knew what was in the mind of Jove, who had many another hard-fought fight in store alike for Danaans and Trojans."


trancehime

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Re: Ragnarok Online - now with our own IRC!
« Reply #179 on: February 06, 2011, 10:42:26 AM »
Flee also goes up with level.  Really AGI only adds a small amount of flee (same with DEX adding hit).  Most of it is going to come simply from levelling/maxing out improve dodge.

Yeah, the Flee increase from AGI isn't really noticeable and/or is negligible on normal servers like Hats.

I believe it's 1 AGI:1 Flee, which is not high.

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