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Some of you guys may remember this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,2587.0.html). We're thinking of bringing it back. :V
For those who haven't seen this before, the idea is a weekly competition between players. Each week, there would be one survival challenge and one scoring challenge; each of these will be for one game, with a particular shot type, allowing submissions for any difficulty - for example, Week 1 might be, 'score in SA with MarisaB, and see how far you can get in EoSD with ReimuB', with each of these challenges allowing submissions from Easy to Lunatic and including Extra. You can submit as many times as you like as long as the runs are created during the week (no using old replays!), and the scoreboards for each week will be 'archived' in the tournament thread, a little bit like what you can see in the Shooter of the Week thread (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,7506.0.html). It'd be really awesome to have some regular, friendly competitions - lots of fun, and lots of motivation to improve (and score)!
If you'd be remotely interested in joining in, please say so in this thread! Need to check interest to see if it's worth starting, of course. :P Any feedback and ideas for improvements would also be welcome!
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I do n't know if I'd be a regular participant, but I'd definately try to be initially to get the ball a-rollin'
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"so in this thread"
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Not expecting miracles, but it wouldn`t hurt to try. Count me in.
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I'm very interested in this...
However, I feel like I'll not even touch the top 5 knowing how awesome some people on here are. :ohdear:
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Same here. I might not participate in all of them, but if some of the challenges interest me I'll give them a shot.
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maaaaaaybe
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Do want plz
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Always been total crap at these games, but sounds fun enough.
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a
I might not participate in all of them
:(
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I'd be interested myself (I need an excuse to play some Touhou...) but I'm worried that there would be too much "division" if there's two different scoring challenges in the same week on all five difficulties, especially for those of us who also do SoTW and/or have dedicated our lives to the One True Game :3
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LET'S DO THIS
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Sounds fun to me! I may not be as good as other players but I might pull off a miracle! (Help me Sanae. I need your foot) :V
I'm getting better all the time so I'm sure I'll be able to pull off a few of them. Just not on the later games since those are harder.
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It obviously depends on what game.
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The attitude in this thread is lacking, you all should be like "lol, I suppose I can deign to honor you scrubby nubs with my uber skillz. Try not to waste my time by being TOO easy". >=P
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I can get in on this.
Bring it~ 8)
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This looks fun and will give me some more motivation to improve.
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Ill probably be the worst one in each one but it sounds interesting so count me in.
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This thread is like a super-heroes assembly.
Another post of support wouldn't hurt. I'm sure you've already thought of pacifist / handicapped runs to go along with the survival route, and single stage practice. Messing around with grazing is also fun, and that could replace the standard scoring challenges from time to time.
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Sure.
Hmm, looks like I only did the UFO week last time.. This time I'll try to take part to all of them.
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Bring it on Your Sapznezz
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Hmm, sounds fun. Would be even more exciting if I could compete (and not be slaughtered) in the lunatic runs... I might give some attempts up there for the hell of it (and the extra practice is nice), but I think if anything my scores are gonna shine most on normal mode.
Side note, any plans to toss some PC98 games in this?
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That would kinda suck for the people who don't have PC98 games. :V
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I'd be interested myself (I need an excuse to play some Touhou...) but I'm worried that there would be too much "division" if there's two different scoring challenges in the same week on all five difficulties, especially for those of us who also do SoTW and/or have dedicated our lives to the One True Game :3
This is true, but I think all difficulties are needed to accomodate all the different levels of players. It's perfectly fine to just submit for one difficulty than you find fun or comfortable if you want, but many might want to try a few, so I think this works well enough. :PAnother post of support wouldn't hurt. I'm sure you've already thought of pacifist / handicapped runs to go along with the survival route, and single stage practice. Messing around with grazing is also fun, and that could replace the standard scoring challenges from time to time.
Yes indeed. :P I think the scoring half of the week would stick to full games, but I'd be perfectly happy to occasionally swap out the 'survival' half with things like single stage score runs and the like. Honestly, 'survival' may not have been the best way to put it - alternate challenges might be more accurate.
Side note, any plans to toss some PC98 games in this?
I'm not entirely sure yet. It could be fun, but the lack of replays seems like it would make learning from each other and really high scoring plays very difficult (aside from meaning you can't really show or prove your runs if they hit the #1 spot, unless you record them live).
Thanks for the enthusiasm, people! I think that's enough interest to make this viable, but if you are interested and haven't said so yet, feel free to say so here - more interest is better. Week 1 will start on Monday the 31st, with the games/challenges announced at the same time.
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Why the hell not? Count me in! - Should make for an excellent excuse to get back into playing Touhou games again! :)
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I'm interested, despite the fact that I don't really play the games for competitive purposes. It reminds me of the Blockbuster Video Game championships many many years ago.
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I was in the last one, and I shall be in this one, plus it would give me something random to do during lunch at work
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The attitude in this thread is lacking, you all should be like "lol, I suppose I can deign to honor you scrubby nubs with my uber skillz. Try not to waste my time by being TOO easy". >=P
Very well, you chump! I'm gonna crush a single other person in this tourney to end all tourneys, and finish with the title of "GRAND MASTER PARTICIPANT" and a silly paper hat that I would make for myself! There is gonna be a very mild expression of dissatisfaction on that person's face!
Aw, yeah. Bring it, whelps!
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This can only end poorly.
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This can only end poorly.
There will be no bees.
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This is true, but I think all difficulties are needed to accomodate all the different levels of players. It's perfectly fine to just submit for one difficulty than you find fun or comfortable if you want, but many might want to try a few, so I think this works well enough.
I didn't mean to limit the difficulties, but rather to have a single challenge a week (or possibly two different challenges over a two-week period?) if participation is fledging or there's a lot of burnout after a few weeks when the initial fighting spirit starts to dwindle :)
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Oh man I didn't even realise interest in this was getting revitalized.
I am all over this.
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I didn't mean to limit the difficulties, but rather to have a single challenge a week (or possibly two different challenges over a two-week period?) if participation is fledging or there's a lot of burnout after a few weeks when the initial fighting spirit starts to dwindle :)
Currently there is no fighting spirit though. Just "aww but I wont do good probably *hides*".
UR ALL WUSSES!!!11oneeleven
(lets ignore the fact I feel the same way lol).
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Ghaleon knows what's up, competitive spirit is excellent.
Bring it. 8)
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Just how difficult are these challenges going to be? I'm hoping that we don't get something like "SA Lunatic no-focus pacifist run with Reimu/Aya at 90 FPS" for the first week. (it would be cool to see the GOD-tier players here accomplish that one, though)
Would we be uploading replays to gensokyo.org like usual?
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Just how difficult are these challenges going to be? I'm hoping that we don't get something like "SA Lunatic no-focus pacifist run with Reimu/Aya at 90 FPS" for the first week.
Well obviously we wont bore everyone with such a stupid lame and easy challenge. We'd at LEAST add left hand only+blindfold+must listen to exterior music while Touhou's sound is off.
Seriously though I got the impression that we'd be free to try any difficulty each week while the stage/limitations/challenge/game/whatever was fixed.
In any case, no matter how hard or easy it is, it'll be that hard and easy for everyone so it shouldn't really matter too much. I remember during the STG tournament thingi eI couldn't even make it past stage 4 in a game but it was still cool.
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Didn't LR do Pacifist No Focus SA Lunatic as one of the challenges?
Did anyone even get past stage 1?
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*joins* :)
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I'll be up for some, but not all.
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Didn't LR do Pacifist No Focus SA Lunatic as one of the challenges?
Did anyone even get past stage 1?
Yup
something like "SA Lunatic no-focus pacifist run with Reimu/Aya at 90 FPS" for the first week.
Ah, we can only wish ;_;
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I'm definitely cool for doing things the way we did it before - I believe there was a Game-Character regular scoring competition, and a Game-Character competition where you either had to play under some restriction [pacifist, no bombs, etc] or with something other than scoring as your objective (final lives count, graze count, cherry value, etc.)
And I will not kick everyone' ass >8D
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Normally I would NEVER attempt anything involving the words "no-bomb" "no-death" anything involving going over 60fps or any other random challenges like that (I don't find challenges like that to be fun in ANY kind of game) but for something like this id probably be willing to give it a try.
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Normally I would NEVER attempt anything involving the words "no-bomb" "no-death" anything involving going over 60fps or any other random challenges like that (I don't find challenges like that to be fun in ANY kind of game) but for something like this id probably be willing to give it a try.
No death may be hard for me, depending on game/stage. No bomb would probably be easier, again depending on game/stage.
I need to go grind at Touhou for a while now.
Btw, does this tournament just use the danmaku touhou games, or does it also include the fighters? I doubt it does but I'll ask anyway.
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Just how difficult are these challenges going to be? I'm hoping that we don't get something like "SA Lunatic no-focus pacifist run with Reimu/Aya at 90 FPS"
Well obviously we wont bore everyone with such a stupid lame and easy challenge. We'd at LEAST add left hand only+blindfold+must listen to exterior music while Touhou's sound is off.
You forgot to mention that they should be playing as Marisa instead. :V
Oh wait, nevermind that. I wasn't paying attention.
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Btw, does this tournament just use the danmaku touhou games, or does it also include the fighters? I doubt it does but I'll ask anyway.
I would be down for something IaMP related, but I can't really think of anything you could do for that other than a netplay tourney, but those could be kind of hard to arrange and they already occur every so often anyway (not necessarily around here).
Just how difficult are these challenges going to be? I'm hoping that we don't get something like "SA Lunatic no-focus pacifist run with Reimu/Aya at 90 FPS" for the first week. (it would be cool to see the GOD-tier players here accomplish that one, though)
Would we be uploading replays to gensokyo.org like usual?
Sounds fun, I'll be back in a bit with the results... I'll only do it on easy/normal though, I can't even clear hard normally, let alone lunatic with no focus pacifist Ayayayayaya. I have a feeling I won't do too good on normal either XD.
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Might try a few, but seriously Imma have to disappoint you Ghaleon with my attitude :
"HUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRR I IS GOING TO BE SLAUGHTERED ARRRRRGGGGGHHH!!!"
No but seriously...anyone that watched that one run I posted in the touhou failures knows... :( :ohdear:
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failures
fail better
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I would be down for something IaMP related, but I can't really think of anything you could do for that other than a netplay tourney, but those could be kind of hard to arrange and they already occur every so often anyway (not necessarily around here).
Sounds fun, I'll be back in a bit with the results... I'll only do it on easy/normal though, I can't even clear hard normally, let alone lunatic with no focus pacifist Ayayayayaya. I have a feeling I won't do too good on normal either XD.
Stage 4 practice, normal difficulty (http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=11881)
Fairy Class - A difficulty level that will put you to sleep. Keep practicing so people don't make fun of you. (http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=11880)
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I will destroy everyone with fierce fierpower!!!
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The good news is that in general even if you can't complete a challenge on a given difficulty, you can still make an attempt at it - and post your results, even if you only get half a stage in. It's not as embarassing as you'd expect.
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It shouldn't really be considered a source of embarassment for anyone. Attempting something and failing at it is a learning experience as well.
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why is everyone such wusses
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why is everyone such wusses
Well forgive me for not being an elite who can NBND Lunatic at 90FPS with my hands tied behind my backs. there are some of us who still struggle to even COMPLETE normal mode (I have yet to beat a touhou game on normal)
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You are not a wuss for failing.
You are a wuss for being afraid to fail.
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You are not a wuss for failing.
You are a wuss for being afraid to fail.
I know how to sidestep folly without backing into fear. I find these kinds of challenges to be neither fun nor fulfilling. I play my games to have fun, if I don't enjoy it then I don't do it, and purposefully handicapping myself for some false sense of challenge is not what I consider fun.
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I really doubt we're going to do super insane obscure challenges like that, but even if we do I think you miss the point. The point isn't to challenge ourself to a difficult goal to strive towards (at least not for something like this). But rather so that we can all upload mistakes for everyone elses amusement. I mean take a look at Drake's video (lol what is he blind?! what a dumb ____!" (smack talking makes it more fun)
http://www.youtube.com/user/Vulcapyro#p/u/29/7baYJ-hK938
Anyway this video is a great example of something we can all laugh at and pretend that we don't do too, but we all know we do >=)
Skip to the end if you don't know w hat the point is.
Anyway don't be down if you can't get even that far or whatever. I'm sure there are many who can't >=)
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Well forgive me for not being an elite who can NBND Lunatic at 90FPS with my hands tied behind my backs. there are some of us who still struggle to even COMPLETE normal mode (I have yet to beat a touhou game on normal)
Yes definitely me except I can beat PoFV on hard and SWR on hard but I'm guessing you're referring to curtain shooters.
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CrimsonDX: You are taking this far too seriously. Chill out, give it a try, and if it goes badly, no great loss, right? Clearing something crazy like a NDNB challenge is not what's expected; it's the extreme exception rather than the rule, but that's not even the point - it's just something for fun, and to help your playing improve, and you'll still be able to compete with everyone else (aside from which you can play on any difficulty you choose). There is no need to get indignant or worried about being asked to attempt something that could result in a game over. Attempting at all is far, far better (and more enjoyable!) than not giving it a try for fear of failure. :P
Just how difficult are these challenges going to be? I'm hoping that we don't get something like "SA Lunatic no-focus pacifist run with Reimu/Aya at 90 FPS" for the first week. (it would be cool to see the GOD-tier players here accomplish that one, though)
Would we be uploading replays to gensokyo.org like usual?
The special challenge part of each week could vary quite a lot in difficulty; some might be 'see how far you can get without dying/bombing', or 'how much graze can you get', or 'how far can you get without focus', or 'how high a score can you get in this stage in stage practice'. They'll all be available on every difficulty, and clearing isn't a requirement, of course, so they're all attemptable regardless of difficulty. :V And yes, gensokyo.org will be fine.Btw, does this tournament just use the danmaku touhou games, or does it also include the fighters? I doubt it does but I'll ask anyway.
Just the danmaku games, I'm afraid.
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I was neither worried nor indi...well maybe a little indignant but that is irrelevant. I already said I would give it a shot anyways.
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do want.
we should definitely do this.
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Haha! A tournament I see? I would love to join! Just wait till I get better in the games... *hides in the corner*
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do want.
we should definitely do this.
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going to participate, no matter how badly I do on it. If I don't participate, it's because I haven't had time to play, but I usually do last-minute runs :p (won't be as easy to even do last-minute runs, with DotS, SotW and other games :p)
still, this also serves as a warmup (for those interested) for STGT, in the sense that it improves my playing abilities until STGT is ready (organizers will be preparing, please wait warmly until it's ready)
please bear with me if I start cursing graze and faith meters, and please share useful advices if possible (for people with bad memorization such as myself, replays -- especially without commentary on the strategic bits -- aren't enough)
edit: oopsie, there's an incoming DotS tournament somewhere, and possibly an IaMP tournament (where I'd get DOUBLE BREAK'd by people like Yuuichi and Hendy -- but not limited to :D), around February iirc. I'll see what I can dom but I'll still participate :p
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I'd play in this thing. I pretty much never play Touhou anymore but I would if there was a thing to compete in!
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The special challenge part of each week could vary quite a lot in difficulty; some might be 'see how far you can get without dying/bombing', or 'how much graze can you get', or 'how far can you get without focus', or 'how high a score can you get in this stage in stage practice'. They'll all be available on every difficulty, and clearing isn't a requirement, of course, so they're all attemptable regardless of difficulty.
I'll give any of the challenges a shot, even the exaggerated Reimu/Aya challenge I stated earlier. Hell, I took a cue from chirpy and tried it anyway. The result was horrendous, but it was still hectic and very fun.
Seriously though, I hope we don't have to worry about 90 FPS runs. I don't really want to mess with vsync or Youtube videos. I doubt it'll be an issue, but I just wanted to throw that out there.
I'm eagerly awaiting the first challenge.
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I would be interested in participating in any non-scoring challenges. The more outrageous and silly the better! (I've long since stopped playing Touhou seriously)
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setting the fps in vsync.ini doesn't change the game's fps for me, so any turbo-mode challenges are impossible for me to even attempt >=(
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I want to give it a spin for sure.
I've taken a break from Touhou, but now I'm back and more ready than evarrrrr.
:V
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setting the fps in vsync.ini doesn't change the game's fps for me, so any turbo-mode challenges are impossible for me to even attempt >=(
Is that how it's supposed to work? I don't need to use vsync for my Touhous, so I would have no clue. If it is, I'd like a confirmation (or someone to tell me how if not), since speed increases sound like fun challenges. Maybe not for the tourney because of potential technical issues, but I would definitely love to give it a try casually or something.
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I would hope there would be no speed increase challenges, because of hardware limitations, vsync not correctly increasing the frame rate on some people's computers, and if CheatEngine is used then we can't really tell if you've actually played it at the desired fps from the replay. As cool as it would be, I don't think it's possible to do.
Get as far as you can in MoF's Extra Stage at 300fps!
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Get as far as you can in MoF's Extra Stage at 300fps!
oh noess...
BOMBSPAMMMMMMMMMMM OH GOOODDDD
I'm going to go try this out :ohdear:
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Reading this thread made me go try some stupid stuff XD
TH11 lunatic reimu/aya no focus as far as i could get on one set of lives. I got past Kisame at least :D. Lost my first life right at the start :(
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I remember when I suggested this, then didn't do anything.
So of course i'll participate. :(
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My computer can only handle 150 fps :V
I can get to Party Start "Two Bows, Two Claps and One bow" with Reimu A, though~
edit:
Just came back from perfecting the stage portion + barely surviving Suwako at 90 fps like a motherfucker 8)
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I'll only take part in anything GFW or PoFV related because I refuse to play other Windows Touhou games. You know me.
Seems pretty interesting though.
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I'd say I'm competent enough to do this. Not great, but competent.
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A slight change of plan!
This tournament will happen once every two weeks rather than every week, and every second week will be a break week, which gives people a chance to go back to playing whatever it is they feel like without pressure. In addition to this, the weeks without the tournament will have Shooter of the Week (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,7506.0.html) (which is also becoming bi-weekly), and vice versa. This gives the people who would enjoy participating in both enough time to do so; learning how to score well in two games in the same week is extremely difficult. Who knows, maybe you guys will end up playing in both too
! :V
Anyone have any particular objections? I think this works better, but tell me if you guys think it doesn't.
Week 1 starts tomorrow, so get ready!
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*shrug* seems fine to me. Can't wait to see what the first challenge is :D
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It's already tomorrow in Japan, and that's where Touhou's from after all! Though I doubt that will work on you... Fine, I shall be patient T_T
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Ah, sure, why the hell not. Count me in.
Maybe it'll make me a better player. :V
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Hoping you guys get as crazy as possible with the survival challenges. :V
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I guess sign me up for anything that isn't StB/DS/GFW/PoFV.
YEAH! PH34R M41 1337 PHAILING SKILLZ
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Please include PC98, not counting HRtP of course since I'd hope this stayed with the shooting games. Plus more game options then.
I could really use yet another reason to finally get those Lunatic clears done outside of just them being there.
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I thought pc98 games were looking bad because there was no way to save replays.
That makes me wonder though, any plans for some of the more recognized danfumaku scripts?
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As it stands, it's just the official Touhou STGs. It's possible that it could change in the future if we start running out of ideas or something, though. :V
PC-98 might start being added after a little while. The lack of replays, needing emulation and such makes them a bit less appealing than the Windows games, but I don't think there's any real problem with just screenshots given there's no alternative.It's already tomorrow in Japan, and that's where Touhou's from after all! Though I doubt that will work on you... Fine, I shall be patient T_T
Naut has been doing this since it was announced, you'll have to try harder than that. :D
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Yeah, PC98 would be cool, but the problem is that not everyone can get them to run properly, even when following my guide. It just depends on the computer. And if anyone were to get screenshots, I would recommend that you un-fullscreen them first since the printscreen button tends to fail when in fullscreen mode with most things.
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And if anyone were to get screenshots, I would recommend that you un-fullscreen them first since the printscreen button tends to fail when in fullscreen mode with most things.
Wish I knew this sooner...
/me glances at LLS lunatic clear
Oh well, can't wait to see what Week 1 has in store.
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Yeah, PC98 would be cool, but the problem is that not everyone can get them to run properly, even when following my guide. It just depends on the computer. And if anyone were to get screenshots, I would recommend that you un-fullscreen them first since the printscreen button tends to fail when in fullscreen mode with most things.
You can screenshot fine from T98-Next, which is nice considering alt-enter doesn't exit fullscreen. Anex is another story, but at least alt-enter works with that. With that said, I recommend using Anex anyway if PC98 is included, since T98 usually has a higher than desirable slowdown... I never really noticed any slowdown when I used it for my extra runs (to be honest, I just used it to make the bullets more visible), but the 20-25% slowdown at the result screen speaks for itself I guess.
Naut has been doing this since it was announced, you'll have to try harder than that. :D
I won't bother, it starts in 45 mins anyway =p. Or are we working in PST? =/
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Well Mats started the first STG tournament thing, and IIRC he lives in India, and since we plan on coordinating the two, I say we go by India time. *hits desk* hurry up already! >=P
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You can screenshot fine from T98-Next, which is nice considering alt-enter doesn't exit fullscreen. Anex is another story, but at least alt-enter works with that.
If you want to fullscreen/un-fullscreen from Next, you need to press F12 then F10.
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Patience. :D
I meant tomorrow tomorrow rather than midnight for most of you guys; I plan on sleeping soon, I'm in GMT here. I guess I should have clarified earlier, sorry for the confusion. At an estimate, I'd say between 12 noon and 1 PM GMT is when it'll be up, along with SotW going down - so, about 7 or 8 hours. I have to squeeze time for life stuff in somewhere. :V
It's awesome to see how enthusiastic you guys are, though. I hope we'll see a lot of scoring entries as well as survival ones... not enough people have converted to scoreplay here yet. :3
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and IIRC he lives in India
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
You're missing a couple letters there.
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Well Mats started the first STG tournament thing, and IIRC he lives in India, and since we plan on coordinating the two, I say we go by India time. *hits desk* hurry up already! >=P
Indiana. India's kind of far from here. Like, other-side-of-the-world far.
For what it's worth, it'll be midnight here in 20 minutes from this post.
I plan on sleeping soon,
Knowing you, those are some famous last words, bro. :derp:
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Indiana. India's kind of far from here. Like, other-side-of-the-world far.
For what it's worth, it'll be midnight here in 20 minutes from this post.
Yeah I know, I just read it as India once upon a time.
But ok, will commence "is it ready yet" complaining in 20 minutes >=P
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I am more than interested to try. :)
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I plan on sleeping soon
Sapz never sleeps. He waits. :D
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Challenges up in about 1.5 hours, if Sapz isn't lying :D. Of course, I'm in GMT-8, and have classes tomorrow. At least my first one isn't until 10:30 and I don't have to be up until 8.
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Sounds cool. Lets do this!. :3
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Week 1 is up (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8339.0.html)! Go submit some scores! :D
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Mountain of Faith! Not bad. My favorite Touhou game! Alright. Let's do this!
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I greatly and happily approve.
I shall begin 'work' now :D TYVM for this thread
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Oh boy oh boy I'm excited 8D
OKAY LET'S DO THIS THING LEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEROY JEEEEEEEEEEEEEENNNKINS
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I'll go ahead and try hard~
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MoF score? This'll be fun >=3
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I'll hit up the wiki, but anybody have anything they'd like to add for how to score in MoF? It's just a matter of never letting that faith meter run out by juggling powerups around instead of just gobbling em asap right?
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I'll hit up the wiki, but anybody have anything they'd like to add for how to score in MoF? It's just a matter of never letting that faith meter run out by juggling powerups around instead of just gobbling em asap right?
Pretty much. Just remember that when bosses appear, the counter stops dropping. (though that should already be obvious anyway) :P
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It's just a matter of never letting that faith meter run out by juggling powerups around instead of just gobbling em asap right?
Yup. There's a key few spots where you can lose HUGE faith if you get greedy (The biggest one off-hand is the start of stage 3 - if you don't let the enemies on the right side live and milk them for faith meter, you can lose upwards of 50,000 faith easily)
EDIT: As an aside, I realised today that I'd NEVER played Mountain of Faith on Lunatic, somehow. I don't even know how that's possible. I still made it to stage 4.
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omfg excellent
I'll post later today when I get home
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You can also make massive profits from bombing certain parts of Stage 4 and 5
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Don't forget to kill bosses when there's lots of bullets onscreen. You can often get a few thousand extra faith for it =3.
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Well I tried my first score run of MoF normal. Score will not be revealed. I'll just say I know I can do better. I *BARELY* was able ot match the 100000 faith per stage guideline. Would have had more at the end of stage 5, but I ended up having the stupidest death ever to the sanae midboss. (I was above her collecting points, and then rushed down to get safe before she started shooting, only I flew just BARELY too later and died as the first bullet spawned.. sigh.
Then I somehow died twice to Kanako's 2nd last spell. I always had a hard time with that one but this time it was just wtf bad. I mean I capture it 50/50 on hard (and like 1/20 on lunatic lol), wtf did it kill me twice on normal? herp derp. And I actually failed MoF.. MoF.. that spell I could time out on my very first attempt seeing it, and again, and again.. and capture it every time on hard. I effing died to it on normal wtf?!?! agh..
In any case, I know I can do better. But hot damn, I'm too old for the frusteration that is scoring. I mean just 1 death and you know your score got tanked for the rest of the game, might as well ragequit.
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Oh, because I'm too lazy to check touhou wiki, is grazing a part of scoring on MoF? I know you CAN graze but there is no graze counter, so I don't know if it adds up in the end.
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@Ghaleon - Yeah, easy mode is even pissing me off right now. Stupid deaths all over the place. That or I screw up my faith on stage 1, or spend too many bombs before Hina to get her extra point items, etc. As easy as the scoring system may be, it's still 10x as easy to completely fuck yourself over from a tiny slip up. I think I'ma just stick with the survival challenge this week, I have an acceptable MoF normal score now at least, even if it doesn't break my old high score.
@BSoD - Grazing is only for the pretty sound effects in MoF. It does nothing in terms of score.
ARGH (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1aF0_URCjw)
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ARGH (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1aF0_URCjw)
I'm laughing, but that happens to me all the time.
SURVIVAL RUN GOOO
brb
Lol I got 9,999,020 in Lunatic and the game said that I got 9.00% complete
on my ninth try
That says a lot
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Literally flailed my way through MoF Easy because I decided to take a TON of risks to get items, and gameovered with about 1/4 bar left on Kanako's final spell. Not bad for never using ReimuB before :D
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ffffffff (http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=11985) (just skip to the Chen bossfight)
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A) I need to learn to read ahead
B) EFF MOUNTAIN OF FAITH EASY (the spell card)
Also - Eff my inability to do Misayama Hunting Ritual and Ritual of Otensui as well as Kanako's clippy second card and her last non-card's third phase.
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Wow. I didn't expect that much participants. Very well. My entries aren't quite ready yet. Still sharpening up on PCB Stage 3. I wan't to at least get into Stage 4 but Stage 5 wouldn't be half bad either.
Its actually pretty surprising for me to see nobody entering Stage 4 yet. Oh and Sapz - stop being silly you hear? I expect you to 1cc this game under the given restrictions. :V
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How much time do we have to attempt the challenges, anyway? It says that they're issued bi-weekly. Does that mean we get two weeks to submit scores, or just one? Just clarifying.
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That was some excellent timing; turned on my laptop yesterday morning to find out I couldn't even get to the desktop. Repair, safe mode, nothing. Didn't help that I had to be somewhere else most of the day, and after spending most of the night searching for and trying out solutions I've decided to do a clean install.
Might be able to start tonight, but I also have two tests this week. It would have been nice to have a reason for trying out MoF again, but I'll be fortunate if I can fulfill even one of the challenges. Obviously then, I'm sticking to PCB and there's only five difficulties to worry about (thanks for saving the effort, T!). Lunatic will be iffy, iffy...last time it took roughly seven hours over the span of a week. Seven more months of on/off playing should make it better, right? Plus there's no reason to hold back on borders.
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Oh man, waking up to see that my scores are still on the bottom of almost every section is -awesome-.
I mean that unironically too. It just motivates me to try to do better +_+!
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So, um.
In the subsequent tournaments, are you going to smalltext all of the previous results like in SotW, or are you going to do some roundabout other thing like save it into a Notepad file and upload it?
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I.... I.....
All I can say is if anyone can give me tips for Houei Era 4 and Suwa War...?
Can you also give me constructive criticism from my newest Extra stage replay?
I bombed in every nonspell to collect all the items, but then I thought.... "If I bomb, won't she give me more P-Blocks than point items (which I needed more)?"
advice? :V
/is gloating at almost-success
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Suwako's sprites in Houei Era 4 follow you around, so it's technically memorizeable. You want to start by leading the first sprite back-and-forth along either side of the screen, making a zig-zag pattern. Once the second sprite appears, make sure that you can get both of them to stick close together.
Suwa War's ending is the part you need to watch out for. For the rest, you just dodge the pink "suns" and stream the red ones. Make sure you stay within an open space between the "vines" as you do this. When the card picks up at the end (after the third red phase, I believe), go above Suwako, dodge the pink suns, then start streaming the red ones downward from the very top of the screen (and I do mean the very top). Be careful of the vines as you go down, of course, but you want to stream in such a way as to end up close to the bottom of the screen during the last couple of seconds.
And yeah, you want to make sure you're at Full Power for as long as possible during Suwako to get those extra Point items. Train yourself to jump straight for the PoC as soon as you end each card, that way you won't get caught at the top by the nonspells. To see a demonstration of the Spellcards you asked about, try this replay (http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=11584). Hopefully this will help.
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Deathbomb final Extra nonspell for extra Faith, Y/N?
Also, wasn't there some trick involving deathbombing Suwako's opener for lots of faith?
Also, do the scoreruns glitch out the first card?
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i can't do this mountain of faith thing guys
every time I die pre-waterfall I ragequit
I've developed a second nature for shooting for the "pause" button when I die
no seriously- I broke my last keyboard doing this
that, and I can't seem to no-miss my way to Kanako anymore
I'll never see 700,000 faith again
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My derp deaths are starting to make me rage.
I've broadsided myself into a row of bullets during Flood Ooze several times now. And rammed random bullets while dodging. And moving myself into walls. And bodyslamming Shizuha a couple of times while PoCing.
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Just got a 653,787,260 on MoF Normal. I am sick of derp dying in all sorts of unexpected places. 4 fucking times, all on Stage 5.
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I'm having a bit of fun scoring PCB Extra. I've yet to get through it NDNB (as per the weekly challenge), though it's interesting playing parts of it the way Heartbeam does in his runs. Then again, if he shows up for the tournament, we're all doomed. :ohdear:
EDIT: Posting this in here because it's discussion-based.
Debated whether or not I should have submitted quick clears initially rather than be a killjoy
This is really the only thing I'm concerned about when it comes to this biweekly contest, that some people will interpret awesome score submissions by top players as a killjoy (even if said top players don't mean it like that) and lose motivation to continue. Maybe I'm not the best person to give pep talks, but I'll give it a shot. To all you players reading this that fall into this camp, don't let scores that appear out of your league make you lose interest in participating. I say view it as an opportunity to improve your game. You now have something new to shoot for, so let it fuel your performances - you'll be surprised at the improvements you make in the process.
If someone else can help me out here, please do. :V
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I don't know if this was already mentioned but when you re-submit scores, do you make a new post? or edit the old one? I already posted my initial attempt at NDNB on PCB. :V
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I'm tempted to give up on MoF at this rate. I keep getting to Kanako and dying on random shit that I can normally do.
I also tend to derp Aya and Sanae way more than I should (to the point where Sanae declares any spell card that isn't Guest Stars or Sea Split and I bomb it).
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I don't know if this was already mentioned but when you re-submit scores, do you make a new post? or edit the old one? I already posted my initial attempt at NDNB on PCB. :V
Make a new post. Editing old posts will probably go unnoticed. :P
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Aaah, lost my post. Keeping this short.
This is really the only thing I'm concerned about when it comes to this biweekly contest, that some people will interpret awesome score submissions by top players as a killjoy (even if said top players don't mean it like that) and lose motivation to continue. Maybe I'm not the best person to give pep talks, but I'll give it a shot. To all you players reading this that fall into this camp, don't let scores that appear out of your league make you lose interest in participating. I say view it as an opportunity to improve your game. You now have something new to shoot for, so let it fuel your performances - you'll be surprised at the improvements you make in the process.
I don't think it's a problem over here. No, I don't have anything to back up that thought, but this is scoring we're talking about. With Touhou games. There's not enough direct competition to cause a commotion anywhere. I don't see how there could be any underlying hatred.
What are the chances of Lunatic happening again?
The outlook is good. The stretch from midboss Alice to endstage Alice may be a slight problem as I hardly practice with Marisa-A, but a border can be set to pop up earlier by milking Maiden's Bunraku. Marisa's splash damage will make the extended time a non-issue. Oh, and you could intentionally break that border so you can summon one during the opener. The rest of Alice's battle I'm not worried about as it's still early in the game. Worth noting that I've never memorized set positions for Spring Kyoto Dolls. Every once in a while I'll be facing down a horrible yellow/cyan overlap.
A little concerned about Lyrica's opener. Sure she has the easiest set, but still. No risk, move a border to that spot and the simplest way is to let the items drop during the shotgun fairy section. Concerto Grosso, Hell God Sword, Asura Sword, stage six spam...borders. I'll be a nervous wreck once 80% Reflowering is up. Doesn't matter how many times I've capped it, I'll be hoping I can stumble through the first few waves for that border so I can cheese the rest of the spell. Sigh, borders...this game is so bad. And I'm a bad person.
Now you know and I want someone else to sacrifice their pride, and care enough to clear the game (Krim).
Edit: Actually, what the hell am I doing talking about hatred. Simply put, not enough people care about scoring for this to be anything but a nice distraction, enjoyable in the company of others.
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Hard mode scoring.
Finally don't fuck up stage 2. NDNB everything in Stage 3 up to Midboss Nitori. PoC after killing the first wave of enemies after midboss Nitori, move down for the next wave, ram a bullet. Obviously pissed at ruining yet another run.
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Hard mode scoring.
Finally don't fuck up stage 2. NDNB everything in Stage 3 up to Midboss Nitori. PoC after killing the first wave of enemies after midboss Nitori, move down for the next wave, ram a bullet. Obviously pissed at ruining yet another run.
This, for me... but in Lunatic. :fail:
I think I'm getting the hang of the Extra stage. I can perfect the stage portion (capturing spellcards and bombing for faith + points), and Suwako isn't that bad.... I just keep derping at Moriya's Iron Ring, even though I already know the trick. I got a 500m-550m run from just dying in the nonspell with the overload of green amulets and Suwa War (three times :V). Gonna aim for a perfect run (aside from bombing) now :getdown:.
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I don't think it's a problem over here. No, I don't have anything to back up that thought, but this is scoring we're talking about. With Touhou games. There's not enough direct competition to cause a commotion anywhere.
If somebody tops my mof lunatic score I'll show you just how much commotion there can be >:(
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Aaah, lost my post. Keeping this short.
I don't think it's a problem over here. No, I don't have anything to back up that thought, but this is scoring we're talking about. With Touhou games. There's not enough direct competition to cause a commotion anywhere. I don't see how there could be any underlying hatred.
Yeah, I know we're not seeing any problems here just yet. I'm trying to make sure it doesn't come up in the first place, that's all. Participation is good.
The outlook is good. The stretch from midboss Alice to endstage Alice may be a slight problem as I hardly practice with Marisa-A, but a border can be set to pop up earlier by milking Maiden's Bunraku. Marisa's splash damage will make the extended time a non-issue. Oh, and you could intentionally break that border so you can summon one during the opener. The rest of Alice's battle I'm not worried about as it's still early in the game. Worth noting that I've never memorized set positions for Spring Kyoto Dolls. Every once in a while I'll be facing down a horrible yellow/cyan overlap.
A little concerned about Lyrica's opener. Sure she has the easiest set, but still. No risk, move a border to that spot and the simplest way is to let the items drop during the shotgun fairy section. Concerto Grosso, Hell God Sword, Asura Sword, stage six spam...borders. I'll be a nervous wreck once 80% Reflowering is up. Doesn't matter how many times I've capped it, I'll be hoping I can stumble through the first few waves for that border so I can cheese the rest of the spell. Sigh, borders...this game is so bad. And I'm a bad person.
The second half of Stage 3 Lunatic and Lyrica's opener really aren't as bad as some people make them out to be. During the time I spent late last year perfecting Stage 3 with MarisaA, I learned how to do its second half with no border breaking almost consistently. Lyrica's opener also took me only a few tries to practice before it became much easier. I'm sure you're capable of these attacks too, of course you're free to do what you want with them.
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Oh hey, let's get everything up to Nitori pretty much correct then trainwreck everything from Stage 4 on. (http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=12079)
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Oh, I have no doubt about that (you're hogging the POC, right?).
This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fl5AJ_d_GuQ) is what I did back then. I'm not an expert at PCB like you are, it's not like I would know the absolute best ways to go through everything. :V But even tackling it like this wasn't that bad. Just more proof that's really the case, eh?
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I'd like some comment on my Lunatic entry, please :(
I didn't entireeeely know what I was doing, but I got farther than ever before :D
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What are good bombing spots for MoF? I generally try and bomb Momiji, both bullshit falls, and the big fairies in Stage 5, when there are more than two on the top of the screen for some massive faith gain. The fairies that shoot the flower-pattern red bullets on Stage 3 is another place, and I just bomb past Hina's Midboss card because fuck her :V
Also - had a perfect Aya easy fight until her final card, and derpdodged straight into a pellet. :blush:
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why is pcb stage 2 so goddamn boring
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If somebody tops my mof lunatic score I'll show you just how much commotion there can be >:(
Well, since the 2nd spot still is 600M you don't have much competition.
EDIT: Hey Naut, could you please scold me for being so horrible at MoF all of a sudden.
EDIT 2: Just saw Naut's replay and thought i wanted to congratulate him on it. 1.4 mil - I cannot compete with that! I want someone other than me and Sapz (we suck in unison :]) who sucks to set a score higher than 700M so i have a realistic chance of beating it. :V
Btw. i assume the submission deadline is the Sunday of the given week or what?
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Don't know if I'll bother to submit a Hard or Lunatic run. ReimuB is so bad for scoring. I may try to learn more of how to do it with MarisaC sometime or even continue with ReimuA, but it's too frustrating with ReimuB.
That, and I still don't know how you play Stage 4 for score outside of bombing the waterfalls and Momizi.
And I could probably do a 1LC of Hard if I put in some effort which would probably easily break a billion, but I don't feel like it. With all the bombing required to score on Stage 4, low power Aya on Lunatic would be terrible as I'm terrible at her even at full power.
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Miracle of Otensui and Mountain of Faith. :V
To a lesser extent - Misayama Hunting Ritual and Last non-spell, as well as a couple of Sanae's non-spells.
So close. D:<
Also - is it just me or is Stage 2 bad for Faith while Stage 3, 4 and 5 are all Faith mines?
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Why does it seem I can never hit bullets properly when I want to (deathbombing in MoF), yet can't pay enough attention to dodge them when I don't? I sure need to get re-used to MoF Extra. My previous perfect run would be #1 for the tournament right now, but if I can just add in a few more scoring strats I can bump that score higher.
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Which difficulty?
I can get around 100,000 or so Faith on Easy and around 200,000 on Lunatic on Stage 2 assuming everything goes right if going for score. It's obviously less on Lunatic if I'm not.
The Lunatic one was while missing out on a Faith item near the start cause it's hard to get with ReimuB and not killing Hina's midboss card quickly enough after bombing it.
Lunatic really is a pain in the ass to get right on that stage though.
And doing those Faith tests pretty much make me want to give up on trying scoring with ReimuB.
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Assuming I bomb-kill midboss Hina, I can get maybe 80k at best, so in order to have 200k Faith by the end of the stage, I generally need 120k by the end of stage one.
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I was referring to stage practice, as in on Lunatic I could get from the 50,000 to around 250,000. From around 50,000- around 150,000-160,000 on Easy. Didn't mess with the in between ones. Lunatic is the only main problem though.
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Ah, okay. Yeah, I can only get around 80k on a good run.
It's probably due to the fact that I fail at item collecting in this stage and my faith bleeds like an open wound.
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EDIT: Hey Naut, could you please scold me for being so horrible at MoF all of a sudden.
Hard to scold somebody who improves so much in so little time. Congrats on breaking 1 billion!
EDIT 2: Just saw Naut's replay and thought i wanted to congratulate him on it. 1.4 mil - I cannot compete with that! I want someone other than me and Sapz (we suck in unison :]) who sucks to set a score higher than 700M so i have a realistic chance of beating it. :V
Ah thank ya -- but don't count yourself out so soon! With the improvements you've been making, I'd say you still have a good chance :)
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Just some input. The top scores don't really prevent me from wanting to post mine. Im just not posting many cuz I'm having an official touhou shmup slump this week. I mean it's not how mine fare to others. But I hate posting stuff worse than what I normally make a ragequit when I'm playing for fun.
Though it might be my new monitor screwing up my play....
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Btw. i assume the submission deadline is the Sunday of the given week or what?
The submission deadline is when I wake up and close it on Monday. Last minute scores are cool beans. :V
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The submission deadline is when I wake up and close it on Monday. Last minute scores are cool beans. :V
Thanks for that clarification. Some random time this monday it is. :)
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Ah crap, I'm pretty much all at work or asleep until this tournament ends D:
I'm at work right now too!
I... I might end up submitting a couple scores slightly late. Not that they'll be game breakers or anything, but I plan to play some at work tomorrow - and if I don't have an internet connection (It's sporadic at best!), I won't have the ability to upload the replays or post the scores until just after Sapz will wake up, probably D:
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Thanks for that clarification. Some random time this monday it is. :)
Looking at my new timetable... we'll call it 1PM, GMT. :V That's the submission deadline, people.
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So, um, what's Ebarrett's ??? score supposed to be?
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>Get home from work
>Scoring topic is locked
WELP. It's a good thing I enjoy being in last place 8D
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>Get home from work
>Scoring topic is locked
WELP. It's a good thing I enjoy being in last place 8D
Well, I am below you in one or two categories :P
Unlike you, I'm rather upset at failing at Touhou. Sooooo, yeah.
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Well, I am below you in one or two categories :P
Unlike you, I'm rather upset at failing at Touhou. Sooooo, yeah.
The most important question is: Did you do better than you think you'd do? And I'm not talking about in comparison; just in relation to you.
Because if you did, you were successful. I know I'm terrible at scoring, but running headfirst into MoF Lunatic finally turned out to be the perfect way to warm up for a Hard 1cc.
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I would almost feel bad about my placements, but it's kind of hard to knowing the people around here. So many strong Touhou players! I had fun (excluding stage 1 fly-into-random-fairy deaths) though, and that's what counts =). Also gave me a bit of an idea on how to tackle MoF Lunatic, so my I may work on that more as well.
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I know I could have gotten that second place spot if I had managed to get to Stage 3 even half the time. Damn it argh. In practice I can perfect 3 and 4, sometimes 5 and usually 6 (provided well-timed border) until Resurrection.
I restarted 200 times within the week. ~90% of that was taken up by Stage 1 and 2 fuckups. Near the end it became a real chore to go through Stage 1 and 2 over and over and over again, only to ram something or whatever.
asfalksfljkldjfkgdfkndskad
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I restarted 200 times within the week. ~90% of that was taken up by Stage 1 and 2 fuckups. Near the end it became a real chore to go through Stage 1 and 2 over and over and over again, only to ram something or whatever.
Tell me about it. That's the reason I didn't take this as far as I planned to. I probably could have gotten to the Prismrivers within that week if I actually spent more time on Alice, but I spent most of my time dying before Stage 3 instead and grew fed up with it. Who knows if I'll continue working on this NDNB PCB concept in my spare time.
Anyway, this was still a successful tournament as far as I'm concerned. I'm anxious to see what the next challenges will be.
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The problem with Stage 1 and 2 is that they're so boring and trivial outside of Kimontonkou that even if you're trying to pay the utmost attention, you won't be physically and mentally challenged as much as in the later stages and your performance goes down accordingly.
I'll be continuing this, though. I'm just upset I didn't even kick out Alice.
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Near the end it became a real chore to go through Stage 1 and 2 over and over and over again
Stop throwing away garba--
Survival Challenge, perfect runs only
Survival challenges ::)
Can't wait for February 14. Fuck chocolates, I need my Touhou scoring competition fix. In the meantime, if anybody is interested, the Shooter of the Week is going on in Akyu's Arcade (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,7506.0.html) now (since the Touhou challenges and SotW will alternate weeks). It's a great chance to play shmups other than Touhou. Discussion on the SotW goes in the shootan gaymz thread (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,7697.0.html). Come play.
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Now to play Batsugun. Hooray!
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The most important question is: Did you do better than you think you'd do? And I'm not talking about in comparison; just in relation to you.
Because if you did, you were successful. I know I'm terrible at scoring, but running headfirst into MoF Lunatic finally turned out to be the perfect way to warm up for a Hard 1cc.
Better than I thought on MoF Easy, horrible everywhere else.
I very well didn't expect to break 600 million points, but I suppose that means that I can vie for 700 now.
I've never actually scored over a billion on a game that isn't Imperishable Night, so we'll see.
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In the meantime, if anybody is interested, the Shooter of the Week is going on in Akyu's Arcade (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,7506.0.html) now (since the Touhou challenges and SotW will alternate weeks). It's a great chance to play shmups other than Touhou. Discussion on the SotW goes in the shootan gaymz thread (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,7697.0.html). Come play.
This. If you guys enjoyed the Touhou Tournament, come join in with SotW! It's a similar kind of deal in a different game, either an old arcade shmup or a non-Touhou doujin. This week's is Batsugun Special, an upgraded version of Batsugun, which is arguably the first ever bullet hell shmup. It's awesome fun times. :V
Also, if you want your Mountain of Faith scores on the main scoreboard, submit them there! Go go go!
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Also, if you want your Mountain of Faith scores on the main scoreboard, submit them there! Go go go!
Please! I'll be right back (10 minutes). I still need to upload 2 more entries! By the way, can we also upload for the special challenge?
I will update this post when ready.
EDIT:
Scoring Challenge
Easy
Paper_Conan - 849,097,290 - C - Replay (http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=12195) (No miss, no bomb)
Special Challenge
Easy
Paper_Conan - 528,091,560 - Stage 6 Boss Spell 5 - Replay (http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=12193)
Special Challenge
Lunatic
Paper_Conan - 51,483,110 - Stage 2 Boss Spell 3 - Replay (http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=12194)
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Kinda late there brah. Contest ended 10 hours ago.
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Yeah, I kind of meant here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,160.0.html) in the MoF scoreboards. :V Entries for the tournament are closed, but feel free to submit your scores there.
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Aww, k :V
I was planning to upload yesterday but I got busy, and then there was school sooo.....
Well, whatever. Next time I'll do better~ >:(
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I just wanted to say thanks for running these. This first week was a lot of fun. My submission ended on a low note, but I'm happy with how things turned out this week - I basically went from knowing nothing about MoF to being able to get a decent score.
That being said, I don't ever want to touch MoF again for at least half-a-year.
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I missed the deadline for submitting my score but it was a nice challenge (Kept messing up Stages 1-3 in PCB which made me restart)
I'm looking forward to the next challenge...assuming I don't have much to do
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When I revive the Touhou stream channel that I run, maybe we should also do some sort of regular tourney.
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Great tournament. It's been loads of fun. Too bad I couldn't make more improvements on Normal and a decent run on Easy.
Anyway, now I'm confident I can 1cc PCB with Marisa on Normal, which is a good thing considering that I have yet to succeed in such a feat.
Thanks to Sapz for bringing up the idea and to everyone else for making my runs look miserable this tourney a blast to compete in.
I might pop up again, but not for the next tourney because of IRL stuff keeping me too busy to play Touhou :V
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Haha, I don't really deserve credit for the original idea, moozooh ran the first one way back. :V Awesome to see you guys enjoyed it though, it's a pleasure to run them.
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next time people could share their experiences during the playing week so that I don't do even more clueless, half-baked, blind last minute runs :(
(preparing to punch (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6JuPShOB1o) whoever tells me that replays count as "experience" >________________< really, I'm the type of person that can learn from Battle Garegga guides faster than watching my own replays :p)
small bonus (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaxRP_shkIs)
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I don't have a problem watching or learning from my own replays. Although, I don't save replays often...
My problem is that I avoid watching other people's replays. I know it is beneficial and even entertaining, but I don't want to learn how to play a game like someone else. Rather, I don't want to end up copying another person's play style.
Is it a slower and more painful journey to a Lunatic 1cc? HELL YES. But I think the victory will be worth it.... some day.
I enjoyed this week's tournament. It broke me out of my SA/UFO grindfest. Looking forward to next time!
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I would share more of my experiences but since 95% of it consists about raging, bitching and moaning about me now living up to my own expectations!
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My problem is that I avoid watching other people's replays. I know it is beneficial and even entertaining, but I don't want to learn how to play a game like someone else. Rather, I don't want to end up copying another person's play style.
A lot of the time, watching replays is done more to see what the general "trick" behind an attack is. Often times this trick will be the only way through it, so you shouldn't feel any shame tackling said attack the same way as everyone else, because you will usually fail otherwise. In addition, this idea of a "trick" is completely separate from the minuscule motions you tend to make when "dodging" something (reading and reacting to something that is random or that you aren't familiar with). I guarantee you'll develop your own "style" as you play through these games, no matter which replays you watch for assistance. Watching a superplay is a little bit different, yet it's not really. Here you will be copying most, if not all, of the motions made, but this is perfectly acceptable since, when you think about it, there is literally only one "path" to getting the highest score possible, and there's usually no use trying to find a better path yourself (because there usually isn't one).
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sharing experiences would be good for avoiding getting cornered due to not knowing or remembering about a stage section (for example, if the PCB survival challenge were to happen again but in EoSD, I could see people having trouble mostly on stage 4, or against Meiling's spiraling kunai nonspell). In the case of MoF, it could help me decide to not bomb on stage 4 (for example) and have spare bombs to help defend a life and thus avoid losing faith by dying. People can plan their bombs with enough repetition, but this time I was clueless, and improvising didn't work.
I'd suggest that, when posting replays (during a tournament like this -- of course, when there are teams involved, or when there's a prize at stake, the people with the best results wouldn't give such information, which is understandable), please try to comment what were your thoughts on the run. For example, if someone else gets to know, through you, that you had an easy time getting past a certain stage or boss, or that you scored as much as you wanted to on a stage or boss fight, he/she may want to see what you did and how.
I would share more of my experiences but since 95% of it consists about raging, bitching and moaning about me now living up to my own expectations!
If you're trying to improve, then don't think about avoiding defeats (unless you really don't like the gameplay, for example). Accept them as part of your learning process, and watch your progress more than pay for it :D
I don't have a problem watching or learning from my own replays. Although, I don't save replays often...
My problem is that I avoid watching other people's replays. I know it is beneficial and even entertaining, but I don't want to learn how to play a game like someone else. Rather, I don't want to end up copying another person's play style.
Is it a slower and more painful journey to a Lunatic 1cc? HELL YES. But I think the victory will be worth it.... some day.
I enjoyed this week's tournament. It broke me out of my SA/UFO grindfest. Looking forward to next time!
While I agree that trying to find your own way is fun as well (in its own way), like assembling the pieces of a puzzle, there's really no shame in using someone else's knowledge or discovery, as what's more important is (in this situation) how *well* you use that knowledge and many others you've found on your way. Being the first to discover something has no relation with being a better user (or even improver) of that something, that would be like limiting oneself to not replicate the weapons that other people have made :p (once again, the process of crafting said weapon yourself for the purpose of a 1cc, for example, is fun too, in a different way)
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Please don't do another No Miss No Bomb thing. No Bomb is fine. But I'd rather keep No Miss out of them. If it weren't for that suicide rule, that would have easily been a No Bombs 1cc.
Also, hopefully next time we get some of the less used shottypes.
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I wouldn't mind a UFO Special Challenge :eyebrowraise:
also scorerun PCB
Do it do it do it do it do it
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I'm pretty much the opposite of Enigma here. I don't mind having NDNB challenges. I'd rather not see another one of those for PCB though (obviously way down the road), as the borders make it potentially too doable (never mind that only Heartbeam got clears on Hard and Lunatic). Playing with even fewer opportunities to cheese things (beyond things like safespots and such) might leave chances for people to showcase dodging as many of the hard patterns as possible, a true survival challenge. Just my take on it, Sapz can do what he wants.
* Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post. *
Thanatoaster got me thinking. No UFO challenge gogogo. :V
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Thanatoaster got me thinking. No UFO challenge gogogo. :V
...That could be interesting.
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If a no UFO route ever gets considered for a special challenge, I'd like to request it be no UFO and no bomb. Not that I think UFO would get considered soon anyway :<
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Lol I dont watch replays unless my friends have something to recommend.
No UFO sounds... awesome. It will ask for a completely new playstyle from me.
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Lol I dont watch replays unless my friends have something to recommend.
I would recommend watching any replays with a significantly higher score than your best. You are liable to learn a lot. :V
No UFOs and no bombs sounds... interesting.
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I hate UFO...because of the UFOs... that sounds interesting to me too. Though since I never play it I'll suck anyway >=p
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It would be hard to resist the UFOs in a no-UFO run. I'm quite spoiled by the little buggers.
But I'll take a stab at whatever challenge you cook up, Sapz. Bring it on.
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hmm I've got another idea
LOW SCORING CHALLENGE:
Imperishable Night
you know how fucking everything gives you points in IN?
Welllll... don't do it!
And clear the game!
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hmm I've got another idea
LOW SCORING CHALLENGE:
Imperishable Night
you know how fucking everything gives you points in IN?
Welllll... don't do it!
And clear the game!
OH GOD THE GRAZE..... FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-
Anyways, the no UFO thing sounds really fun (so now there's no reason to commit suicide :V), but isn't like the borders in PCB?
Half of me wants a no UFO/ no bomb run, but the other half is crying to not play UFO :ohdear:
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No UFOs would at least see me playing Extra. No UFOs No Bombs means I'm not even loading up UFO that week.
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you know how fucking everything gives you points in IN?
Welllll... don't do it!
And clear the game!
I can see this turning into pacifist runs real fast. Though it would be interesting seeing people try to balance the Point Extends to even get past the later stages.
No UFOs would at least see me playing Extra. No UFOs No Bombs means I'm not even loading up UFO that week.
Not even Extra for the latter? :ohdear:
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Only thing is that even no-UFO in Extra is pretty easy. No-bombs will be harder, but you'll still see clears for sure.
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I really do not want to see anything UFO, that game is just... Ugh.
No focus EoSD Marisa or IN Youmu anyone?
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No Ice GFW. Pacifist PCB Extra (oh god 45 seconds of chen's nonspell). Graze and no graze runs of SA. Scoreruns on Double Spoiler (ha ha ha!). All-focus runs on any game.
I don't know what else could qualify...
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Sakuya Solo/ Alice Solo shenanigans?
Maybe PoFV endurance runs where you cannot use spells?
StB/ DS no focus runs?
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What about a no UFO summoning-yet collect all the UFO tokens challenge? Once you let one go off screen you lose. I guess planning ahead becomes an issue for some parts, well for stage 6 you'd really want to have 2 blue or 2 red from before, so you can pick up 2 green and stay around the last one so it doesn't fly away. Maybe it's too complicated and prone to cheesing?
SA ReimuA only vertical and horizontal-to-the-left movement challenge? I haven't given this much thought so maybe it isn't a good idea.
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Sakuya Solo/ Alice Solo shenanigans?
Maybe PoFV endurance runs where you cannot use spells?
StB/ DS no focus runs?
I like those challenges, but StB/DS no focus sounds a bit scary..
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Pacifist PCB Extra (oh god 45 seconds of chen's nonspell)
Nono, you have it backwards. Her nonspell is the easy part; it's easily controllable and essentially becomes static. Blue Oni Red Oni becomes a goddamn massacre and Bishamonten goes really really really fast.
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That, too.
I remember trying to pacifist PCB Extra, and failing miserably.
ROBO would got faster and faster and faster until how the fuck do you dodge all of this shit
I ended up dying on the last two seconds of Soaring Guardian God, which just pissed me off. I nearly capped it.
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If you're trying to improve, then don't think about avoiding defeats (unless you really don't like the gameplay, for example). Accept them as part of your learning process, and watch your progress more than pay for it :D
Its just for your guys sake. :) Nobody would want to listen to me complain just because i don't live up to my own expectations. I'm not avoid defeats. I get plenty of those. I just hide them from the internets to the best of my ability.
LOW SCORING CHALLENGE:
Imperishable Night
Bad idea :V
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Low score actually sounds kinda cool. Pacifist no focus bosses? Fuck yeah! Bombing easy spellcards to lower scores? Hell yes!
Sakuya Solo low score IN go!
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Mmm, but limiting the available shottypes to solos also limits the number of players capable of playing.
I haven't unlocked solos, because I've only cleared with 2 1/2 teams (2 clears and 1 Final A).
Why not also have a designated team?
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Mmm, but limiting the available shottypes to solos also limits the number of players capable of playing.
I haven't unlocked solos, because I've only cleared with 2 1/2 teams (2 clears and 1 Final A).
Why not also have a designated team?
That's true enough I guess. Hopefully it isn't Reimukari though, they're way too overused.
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I'm totally fine as long as it's not the Nether team.
I can't aim Myon worth a shit.
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Why not have a Devil team challenge, then? The player can decide whether to enter solo or as both.
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Low score actually sounds kinda cool. Pacifist no focus bosses? Fuck yeah! Bombing easy spellcards to lower scores? Hell yes!
Wait whut? Why pacifist no-focus bosses? To avoid time orbs? I don't think i would be able to 1cc in that manner... But. If somebody manages it would make for an interesting watch i'm sure. Okay. The idea is cool enough i guess.
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Score archive thread here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=8465.msg553854#new). Week 2 will be up shortly. Get ready!
EDIT: Thread's up! Go go go!
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Special challenge is mighty cruel this time. I am horrible at aiming Myon shots.
Alright. Let's do this thing.
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Special challenge is mighty cruel this time. I am horrible at aiming Myon shots.
The cruelty doesn't just stop at Myon's unruly shots, or even the lack of precision incurred from permanently unfocusing. The real cruelty comes from it being a scoring challenge where you can't auto-collect any items at the top of the screen
.
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You can autocollect at max power. :P
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Are you implying I will ever get to max power without my precious auto-collect?
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The cruelty doesn't just stop at Myon's unruly shots, or even the lack of precision incurred from permanently unfocusing. The real cruelty comes from it being a scoring challenge where you can't auto-collect any items at the top of the screen
.
True, you can't use focus to auto-collect items before max power. Just finished a run on easy just to test the waters. Marisa, Tewi, and Reisen are going to be a real pain in this challenge. At least I managed to raise the bar on my personal high score again. (1.3B).
I did notice something about Youmu's bomb. Throughout the duration, she goes into focus mode anyway; or at least the hitbox is visible.. Hopefully this doesn't nullify any legitimate runs. I was quite unnerved when I noticed it in Reisen's fight.
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Ahhh, they -have- to let ex-bombing like that go, right?
They clear bullets, so it's not as if you have anything to dodge while they go on anyway.
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week 2
Oh shit what. WELP. TIME TO---
youmu solo unfocused
oh fuck
EDIT: After game-overing at Parsee on Normal after reaching Yuugi on Hard, I am convinced I have forgotten how to SA.
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Definitely hope to see someone do a Lunatic clear on Special Challenge.
I just know one thing, it's not going to be me. I only barely cleared Hard on it.
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Definitely hope to see someone do a Lunatic clear on Special Challenge.
I just know one thing, it's not going to be me. I only barely cleared Hard on it.
Really? I figured your run would have been pretty decent. Did you abuse the pseudo-focus (holding down at the bottom for horizontal movement) trick at all? It really makes life a lot easier.
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I saw your run. You would clear if you got the final extend like I did. I used up all the lives. And yeah, I held down at bottom of screen some.
Edit: Only redeeming things were Telemesmerism and Salamander Shield captures.
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Would it be ok to go max lives on the special challenge? I realize it totally bombs your score, but it'd be fun to see a Lunatic
clear game over on Marisa instead of well, midboss Marisa. Suppose this question applies to future EoSD/PCB/IN stuff as well.
Not that I'll end up trying Lunatic myself anyway, Hard's bad enough as is with Marisa in there...
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Tried some Extra.
Not familiar with Ex Keine's cards as a human player since I always use Focus during them normally. First still isn't too bad, but the third.
I can no death the stage part with bombs on Ex Keine's second, third, and the death fairy.
Outside of that, No Focus Mokou is pretty hard. It obviously wasn't too bad with Yuyuko, but with Youmu, I'm getting destroyed.
Oh hi, Ihakasa, oh hi familiars that can kill you on Xu Fu's Dimension even if you barely move up from the bottom, hi familiars that kill you on Hollow Giant Woo. Don't remember if the familiars killed you on the Volcano Card, but you shouldn't be getting near those.
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Would it be ok to go max lives on the special challenge? I realize it totally bombs your score, but it'd be fun to see a Lunatic clear game over on Marisa instead of well, midboss Marisa. Suppose this question applies to future EoSD/PCB/IN stuff as well.
Not that I'll end up trying Lunatic myself anyway, Hard's bad enough as is with Marisa in there...
Nope, sorry, defaults only to keep it fair. ...Odd how I forgot to put that in the rules, actually, I'll go add that.
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No-focus solo Youmu run? Let's see. Though I'm sure I won't get far in the SA run. I suck in SA =(
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Hourai Jewel knocks me out for the third time T_T
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How many resources do you have going in?
1/1 should be enough to guarantee clearing on Hard with this condition. Maybe a bit more for safety.Only reason I didn't say 1/0 is because I almost let myself get trapped by the first part of the attack due to not being confident enough to try a dodge with unfocused speed.
And yeah, that card completely sucks especially if you haven't gone against it in a while. Once she loses the armor, it's better go up and stream the thing down then bomb as you get trapped. You're probably not capturing it either with the survival strat or vertical streaming with No Focus Youmu. Do not stream up like I did at the first part of my last life due to Myon. Corrected that after realizing my mistake.
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I usually go in with 2 lives and either one or no bombs. By the time her invincibility ends, I'm usually down to 1 life 1 bomb. Honestly I can rarely capture this card on normal with focus, let alone on hard without =/.
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Oh shit what. WELP. TIME TO---oh fuck
EDIT: After game-overing at Parsee on Normal after reaching Yuugi on Hard, I am convinced I have forgotten how to SA.
Same here, except I kept gameovering at Yamame. ON ALL THE FUCKING MODES.
Oh, and about the Youmu challenge.... NO.... just no.
(I can't no-focus any game yet.... except on Extra.... but the stupid familiars.....)
I'm just going to sit this one out. Good luck you lunatics everyone!
:ohdear:
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And, I really suck at redirecting shots with Myon ;_;
Every time I tried a solo Youmu on Normal, I get slapped in the face at stage 4. This time, I walked into it on my last life =(
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Y'alls could stop whining about the special challenge and go for score in SA, y'know :D
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I'm actually pretty good at SA. If I could just figure out utsuho I could have a pretty good normal run. I just need lotsa practice
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Score, MarisA.
I may try to 1cc Lunatic with her, but I don't see myself actually trying to score with her. I don't even know how to score with ReimuA and scoring with Marisa is pretty much harder.
I don't know if I can at least get a 1cc as I'm pretty inconsistent at the game plus that hitbox. That and Yamame's opener is bad enough with ReimuA(which I still need to 1cc with sometime).
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Score, MarisA.
I may try to 1cc Lunatic with her, but I don't see myself actually trying to score with her. I don't even know how to score with ReimuA and scoring with Marisa is pretty much harder.
I don't know if I can at least get a 1cc as I'm pretty inconsistent at the game plus that hitbox. That and Yamame's opener is bad enough with ReimuA(which I still need to 1cc with sometime).
You got it with ReimuC right? I'm surprised you didn't use ReimuA or MarisaC first.
Anyway, in terms of records, Alice seems to be the second best. You could probably find some good reference material in some of the replays (http://score.royalflare.net/th11/levelchar11.html#L3C3) of her. This is all assuming you're intending to go for a serious score in any of the difficulties. Personally, I'm only aiming for about 300m on normal... I'm just garbage with MarisaA. I do like how her shot type is only good in unfocus and how that matches up with the IN challenge though. I wonder if Sapz planned that =p.
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Y'alls could stop whining about the special challenge and go for score in SA, y'know :D
Ahahahaha
hahahaha
haha
ha
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Does anybody know if there was a patch that fixes a bug with the SA replays? Some of them have a tendency to de-synchronize, causing shorter and more idiotic playbacks.
Tourney-wise, I need to get accustomed to Marisa's speed again. I've never played SA for score, so I'm not really used to trying to graze EVERYTHING.
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Oh NO! Playing as Marisa in SA? That game has worse character bias than any Touhou game ever made! And obviously we need to use the crappiest one. MarisaA. SAPZ YOU ARE EVIL!
Its basically all the worst handicaps stacked. Fast movement speed. Check. Weak shot. Check. Weak bomb. Check. Bigger hitbox. Check. I'll have to put all my effort into survival here to even get through Utsuho. Well... let's see what sort of trainwreck i can produce. Be rite back!
Results:
*Rage alert*
Where was I? Oh yeah, that's right. I'm not touching this UFO MarisaB forerunner ever again because i fear that worthlessness is contagious.
My thoughts about this run?
I'm surprised i got that far really. I had expected no further than Satori but apparently i got to Orin and that's despite an awful bunch of stupid deaths. I had to bomb a lot of stuff including Parsee's non-spells as well as bombspam basically anything Satori has because of the huge clipdanger any pack of dense bullets provide when you are playing as something as unreliable as this sack of maggots.
What happened to the balancing? ReimuA may be overpowered but at least the other Reimu's are decent! Somewhat decent anyway.
*Rage alert over*
Oh well. Now i'll just relax and watch to see just how many can pull off anything decent with this shot.
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If you're finding MarisaA to be 'worthless', you're not using her right and/or are spoiled by ReimuA's easiness. Notice how MarisaA has the second highest potential damage of all shot types (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,181.msg2965.html#msg2965) (and it's easier to use compared to #1). It's a shotgun type, use it as such and you'll destroy everything.
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Yes you are right but you have to be unfocused to take advantage of that. Besides. Its not just power i'm having an issue with. Its the entire shot type and every part about it.
Its hitbox is a bit larger which doesn't make much difference with regards to dodging fast bullets but going through gaps in patterns that are easy to read are needlessly tricky. The movement speed is also faster which is not good for precision. She has no benefits over the other shottypes and her bomb is terrible.
Sure i may be a little spoiled by using competent shot types all the time. It doesn't have to ReimuA. Just any Reimu shot will do.
You say i'm supposed to use her as a shotgun? How am i supposed to get close to the bosses?
(and it's easier to use compared to #1)
Are you saying she is easier to use than Yukari?
EDIT:
There doesn't seem to be many people who realize how "good" she is (http://replays.gensokyou.org/index.php?u=&g=11&p=MarisaA&t=0&d=4&ch=0)
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Are you saying she is easier to use than Yukari?
#1 for damage is MarisaB with the diagonal shots. :V
Even at far range, the unfocus shot is very powerful. I admit it's not the easiest shot type to use, but that'd be boring, right? It has tons of potential. Keep at it!
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I thought Yukari was the most powerful one. And really, what that shot has in potential - the Reimu shots got trifold at least. I have watched japanese replays of her and i'm really impressed by how well they are capable of using her but i must keep things realistic. I cannot control her movement speed and i'm not accurate enough to move her through the tiny gaps that are required to play SA Lunatic. Only Reimu offers the precision i need.
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I'd label Marisa's hitbox as "borderline terrible" in SA. The size difference feels much more pronounced than it appears to be in other games, especially when the danmaku offers some of the most consistently "tight" dodging in the series. I wanted to give MarisaA, hell any of her shots a chance, but unfortunately they're all falling on the bad side of that border for me. As interesting as MarisaA's shot spread is by itself (no, really), her hitbox single-handedly saps away what fun I do have.
Even at far range, the unfocus shot is very powerful. I admit it's not the easiest shot type to use, but that'd be boring, right? It has tons of potential. Keep at it!
Scoring with ReimuA ain't no easy feat either. Then again, there can't be that many people here who have taken the time to learn her scoring paths on the higher difficulties, so maybe it's for the best a different shottype was selected. I may not be able to will myself to play any of Marisa's shottypes, but it'll be interesting to see how high others can push their scores.
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And here I thought that hitbox thing was all inside my head. That explains why I failed Yuugi's last card for the first time and died on all sorts of easy Orin cards then.
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And that power system with her.
Might not have as much time to play this week though as I thought.
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What he said
Agreed. Things like Satori's non-spells come to mind and what about Ghost Wheels? Sounds like fun! :V Even Parsee gave me trouble. The sentiment of easily being able to spot the path through the bullets but still it being impossible to get though those gaps because of that huge hitbox is very irritating. Not to forget my dodging style when playing these games incorporate a hell of a lot of unfocused dodges whenever things aren't too dense. But because Marisa is too fast i end up running into a wall because she would move further than i'd expect her to.
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No SA attempts planned for today, but I wanted to post some target scores.
Easy: 600,000,000
Normal: 800,000,000
Hard: 1,000,000,000
Lunatic: 2,000,000,000 - 2,500,000,000?
Extra: 1,040,000,000
Easy may only pull off 580M with what I'm willing to attempt...haven't run through this difficulty in a while so I don't know what to expect. Normal may only sit in the 700M range. 1B for Hard is underachieving and the target should be reached even if there's a late miss and the base item value is lost. Never attempted Lunatic with this shot type according to the score table so I'll have to see what happens. Maybe I'll be too busy fearing for my life because I don't practice stages three and four. I'm not going to care if I miss Extra by a few million, but I expect at least 1.033B.
It'll come down to patience, obviously. None of these are out of reach.
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Wow, I'm getting hammered on the rankings this week... Maybe I can get something decent for SA Easy. With ReimuA and a bit of luck, I can manage to no-death up to Orin on Normal. Marisa should at least be able to match that on Easy right?
EDIT: Yeah, easy was a joke. 1 death on Orin because one of her spirits blew up in my face on her second nonspell. Spread shot is too wide, it's probably easier to pacifist that phase. Almost had a perfect Okuu, but I bombed once on her second card.
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Im playing easy and everything goes fine until stage 5 =/
1st death:slam a bullet i didn't notice in front of me
2nd death: slam a pellet trying to autocollect
3rd death: orin kicks me in the face right before spleen eater ends
Uggh i gotta break 400 mil at least.
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Yeeeaaah, no.
I can't participate this week. (I'm sure no one would miss me though :P)
I wish I could, given MarisA is my best shot in SA (Really, I've come to love all of the shots 'cept ReimuC).
I project my scores to be something like this, though:
Easy 220, Normal 180, Hard 40, Lunatic 5,000,000
Good luck, everyone!
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Tried the IN challenge and got to Mokou's fourth nonspell and died there. I really thought I was going to cap her first spell card too since I was doing exceptionally well. Though Youmu's ghost shots thing is really annoying to aim when you're not at the bottom of the screen.
All in all, it sucked.
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SA is driving me nuts
Because somehow I keep making it farther on Hard than I do Normal. I cannot even begin to fathom how or why this is.
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If I actually managed to clear, I could get a nice 600mil probably. Early stage screwups come back to haunt me bigtime on the legitimately hard things though.
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>.< I feel really bad sitting on top both Normal and Hard (Scoring) with such measly scores. Somebody go beat me so I get motivated to do better!
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ok
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Tried the IN challenge and got to Mokou's fourth nonspell and died there. I really thought I was going to cap her first spell card too since I was doing exceptionally well. Though Youmu's ghost shots thing is really annoying to aim when you're not at the bottom of the screen.
All in all, it sucked.
Still sucks! :ohdear:
Upon watching your replays, I have no idea how you can do something as awesome as that. The furthest I've ever gotten is Honest Man's Death. Guess that makes me a dying, honest man, huh.
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Speaking of IN Extra, I never managed to pass Possessed by Phoenix, despite the dozens of times I've played it.
I have capped all of her other cards preceding it, however.
Any ideas?
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spots of interest after going through stages 5 and 6:
stop screwing up midboss orin
get up in orin's face on her opener
kill more familiars on orin's second non
ghost wheels graze+++++++++++
actually get faith on last two stages i.e. stop dying
actually kill all the crows
bomb the poop out of blaze wheel for holyshitpoints
actually kill all the crows again
stop dying until at least after the last crow wave
this would probably guarantee another 100mil
scratch that considering how many points i got on stage 6 alone my score would shoot through the roof tbh
wow i just realized how many points ending with full lives gets me
going to have to rethink this now ughhhhhhhh
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And now that I get a decent score, Okuu kicks up my slowdown to 7.
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Might try to up my IN Normal score tomorrow. Not interested in no focus extra/lunatic or any more SA for this week, but I'm not exactly happy with my IN placement. Also, I figure if I can (almost) make a 1LC normally, there should be no reason I can't die less times with OMFGHAXSPEEDYOUMU and no focus.
I might try to improve my easy... Scratch that, I already 1 life cleared that so I am happy there.
Well, we'll see how I do. If there's no new scores, you know what happened =p.
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I was about to not enter any scores for this tournament
Then I realised how few HAVE been submitted and decided to do something about it.
...Then I realised that after several repeated attempts I can't even make it to stage 4 on Normal somehow DESPITE DOING IT ON HARD so... godidon'tevenknow
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Probably a bit late this time, but you (Sapz) should post the submission deadline in each thread. :V
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Well, it's still 1PM GMT on Monday, but that's probably a good idea. :V Will do.
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stop dying jesus christ
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Sorry for being stupid, but how do I upload Replays?
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http://replays.gensokyou.org/
alsostop dying jesus christ
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So I don't have to specify difficulty?
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Gensokyo.org does it for you after you upload a replay.
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Done for this week. I really should have devoted more time for these challenges. Too much GTA 4 lately.
I suppose I'll train on Lunatic for a while. I'd really like to submit some decent scores on Hard/Lunatic/Extra.
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Pressed alt instead of X to bomb.
Twice in a row.
:< :< :<
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- so far, in order of personal preference:
IN Special Challenge (solo Youmu no-focus) > PCB Special Challenge (MarisaA no miss no bomb survival) > MoF score > SA score (I'd like to hear what's interesting about the latter two, I may change my mind)
- funniest parts of IN Special was shooting a lot and maneuvering Myon and CANCELLAN bullets :D, shooting familiars and trying to milk bosses and take them down when there were familiars on the screen. Though, the bullet hitboxes, how do they work? Overestimate them, you fail to capture spellcards, underestimate them, you make wtf faces due to the screen getting red and then having to deathbomb, if you haven't already. Getting through gaps is doable if you only focus on going through the gap rather than mentalizing the bullet hitboxes (example: the small stars on Marisa's fight), but when larger bullets or masses of small bullets get near.. knowing the hitboxes more exactly would help
- PCB Special: CORNER'd on stage 4 :(
- MoF: unexpected death on stage 4 (or was it 5?) = huge blow to faith = demotivation
- SA: hugging the large fairies at stage 1 and then trying to do well through the rest of the game :(
suggestion (not that these are the best ones, just the ones that I thought of :p):
- scoar: GFW
- special: EoSD no bomb survival?
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- special: EoSD no bomb survival?
I'd be up for that. The reason I didn't play in this one was I didn't want to play IN my least favorite Touhou window game or SA the one I suck the most at and can barely 1cc easy.
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UFO Marisa B score run XD
No, I'm actually joking.
I liked the no-focus run. I didn't get a high enough score, but it was fun. Maybe another no-focus run?
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Heh. Nobody made a MarisaA 1cc in SA. Proof enough that she is useless to me :V.
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Psh, 1cc's are overrated. Why go for a 1cc when there's plenty of SKOR (http://i52.tinypic.com/2emh9ao.jpg) to be had? BV
If there's anything that I've learnt from doing this week's scoring it's:
- MarisaA's bomb is excellent, and severely underestimated
- That larger grazebox is delicious, useful and completely outshines having a smaller hitbox
I probably shouldn't go and wreck my wrist in the latter half of the week
I should also mention that I do have an improved Easy run, but I forgot to submit it. Hooray o 3o
UFO Marisa B score run XD
No, I'm actually joking.
:(
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Psh, 1cc's are overrated. Why go for a 1cc when there's plenty of SKOR (http://i52.tinypic.com/2emh9ao.jpg) to be had? BV
You'd get more points if you 1cc'd. :P
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A base 1cc doesn't get you a better score than a run where you die prematurely grazing throughout the entire game :u
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A base 1cc doesn't get you a better score than a run where you die prematurely grazing throughout the entire game :u
No, but a 1cc with scoring methods applied will. And to my recollection, there exists ReimuA survival-plays that got the same score as your MarisaA scoring run. I do acknowledge the fact that MarisaA sits has some very excellent top scores set for her on royalflare but she is still not as high as ReimuA and since almost nobody can play well with her i'd say she is quite useless still.
ReimuA may be overpowered but at least she is useful. There is also other less "overpowered" alternatives that doesn't suck. Personally i wouldn't call her overpowered though. Just the only proper forward focused type that has a decent bomb.
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How can she possibly be useless, when she has her own scoreboard?
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How can she possibly be useless, when she has her own scoreboard?
Everyone has. Even MarisaB in UFO. And she is a completely different league of useless. The reason for the existance of that scoreboard is obviously for people wanting to challenge themselves with handicaps. There should be a no-bombs one too. I'd be interested in just how high people could score in SA without bombing for graze. :)
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How can she possibly be useless, when she has her own scoreboard?
Usefulness has nothing to do with that. If a shottype exists, it'll get a scoreboard.
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I see no STG of the Week up in the arcade =(.
So yeah, fun week this week, especially the IN. Looking forward to the next :3.
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There should be one soon. But it's looking like it'll be some masochistic stuff at the moment though. But hey, maybe I'll get farther than I have before in it, assuming nothing actually ends up passing it.
I could have probably 1cc'd if I grinded it out, but as I mentioned I didn't have time to. I do plan to grab a MarisA 1cc sometime, so you can expect to see it whenever that happens.
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UFO Marisa B score run XD
No, I'm actually joking.
I liked the no-focus run. I didn't get a high enough score, but it was fun. Maybe another no-focus run?
Marisa B is really good character for UFO scoring. I would be happy with that choise. Reimu B (homing reimu) is the worst shot type. Impossible to get any good results...UFO Reimu B score run week would be my worst nightmare. Oh, and Reimu A is pretty difficult too...
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Everyone has. Even MarisaB in UFO. And she is a completely different league of useless. The reason for the existance of that scoreboard is obviously for people wanting to challenge themselves with handicaps.
You're missing the point. When you're not competing against other shot types it doesn't matter at all what kind of scoring potential they would happen to have. It's like saying lower difficulties are useless, because Lunatic gets you more score.
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I would've entered the contest, but.... argfretghh lost 4 lives in IN stage 5 normal.
Still can't believe that happened, or else I would've 1cc'd.
Proves that I can't control Youmu and deathbomb.
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There should be one soon. But it's looking like it'll be some masochistic stuff at the moment though. But hey, maybe I'll get farther than I have before in it, assuming nothing actually ends up passing it.
Ooh Ketsui. I'm so bad at that game, but I'll give it a go. Looking at the choices I kinda wish we got DDPDOJ, but Ketsui would be my second choice of those, so it's all good =D.
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Gradius III was in the lead when I posted that. Ketsui isn't masochistic.
Still, maybe I can get to Stage 4 of the SotW game this week. I have gotten to stage 3 boss before.
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Ketsui becomes pretty masochistic whenever someone says 'Ura'. :V
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Urauraurauraurauraurauraurauraurauraurauraurauraurauraura
Not that anyone will reach it, but.
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You're missing the point. When you're not competing against other shot types it doesn't matter at all what kind of scoring potential they would happen to have. It's like saying lower difficulties are useless, because Lunatic gets you more score.
Well, playing at lower difficulties is pointless when you are capable of playing a higher difficulty. At least playing as a different character serves as a handicap.
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It isn't a handicap because you're not competing with other shot types; each is judged on its own, and each has its own scoring potential. Same for difficulties. Why else do you see very high level players tackling tons of shot types and difficulties?
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No, i was just thinking about one character compared to another. Then having less damage and a larger hitbox + more unwieldy weapon is a handicap. When competing with other MarisaA players the competition is of course fair enough.
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Hey, we can't let this thread get all moldy and sticky the day before the third round now can we? This time I'm going to actually participate instead of just submitting last-minute entries.....
All of you better watch out 8)
Btw, scoring challenge idea..... Touhou 13 (demo ver.)!!!!!!!! (when it comes out) :V
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I support a TH13 demo tournament week. That'll still be 2 weeks away though.
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You mean right in time for the contest after this one.
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Touhou 13 No Focus Youmu! Just like the IN special challenge.
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You mean right in time for the contest after this one.
Precisely.
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Touhou 13 No Focus Youmu! Just like the IN special challenge.
Yesssss!
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Touhou 13 No Focus Youmu! Just like the IN special challenge.
Yes yes yes. do want.*
* as long as we don't have to collect UFOs (or spirits, whatever) to get reasonable amount of resources :V
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Nah, I'd prefer a plain scoring challenge.
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You should totally put up a survival challenge of PoFV, but only for deaths. So, you could lose your health, just not die. And I would assume that using spells (or whatever that's called) would be fine because otherwise it would just be impossible. It would be cool to see a no deaths of Shikieki on story mode.
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I support a TH13 demo tournament week. That'll still be 2 weeks away though.
I definitely support this too.
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I definitely support this too.
I too support this. Competing for score in a situation where nobody could possibly have any advance knowledge about scoring practices or methods, so we all start on roughly an even footing? Heck Yes.
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Week 3 is up, go for the top!
Also, I'm hosting this week because
[00:41] <Sapz> Dudes, my computer is getting blue screens, so I might not be able to start up/end SotW/tournament for tomorrow
[00:42] <Sapz> If you guys see Naut, tell him he can choose what to have next week if I'm not around
Also regarding the scoring challenge
[10:57:07] <Naut> @choose reimu a or reimu b or marisa a or marisa b or sanae a or sanae b
[10:57:09] <Keine-tan> Naut: I choose...marisa a! ^_^V
[10:57:14] <Naut> unfucking believable
but...
[11:17:55] <Naut> okay I feel bad having ufo scoring with marisa a
[11:18:02] <Naut> somebody else pick a shot type
[11:18:06] <Naut> keine is evil
[11:21:23] <Erppo> Homing Reimu, whichever that was in UFO
so y'all're spared from my horrible bias
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So Perfect Freeze isn't allowed?
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This week is going to be real nightmare...
* Reimu's homing shots either kill the UFO too early or the UFO gets away
* It's harder to get graze points with Reimu
and few other things...
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I would have at least tried to figure out how to score UFO Extra with MarisA, but ReimuB is probably no thanks. And GFW is not a game I care for very much, so I'm probably skipping this week,
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Ahahahahahahahaha oh man, Naut, this is glorious. :D
(back for now, grabbed a laptop from home, PC is still completely dead)
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I want to make sure of Naut's wording, the GFW challenge allows deaths but not bombs, right?
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Correct
Edit, also:
This week is going to be real nightmare...
* Reimu's homing shots either kill the UFO too early or the UFO gets away
* It's harder to get graze points with Reimu
and few other things...
The best part is that we all have the same handicap, so yeah.
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Sooooo frustrating!
Blue UFO with 447 point items in it disappears from the screen! 160 million points lost.
(http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/7455/epicfailfc.jpg)
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Yeah, I figured there would be an no-ice GFW challenge at some point. This weeks challenges are going to rock! I am all over this.
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imma figure out how to at least get to the midboss in gfw extra. this is like crazy hard honestly.
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I dare anyone to get to the GFW Extra midboss. The third section of the stage portion is one huge luckfest, and if you die once it becomes harder to catch up to the "thick ring" fairies (mostly because you have to spend a bit of time running through the ring while invincible to make a gap, then the next ring fairy will come down and you won't be able to kill it in time). I haven't spent much time with the fourth section (green+yellow bullets), but initial inspection makes me think it's impossible to last long there.
Thankfully the main game can still be done to a decent degree with no freezing. I'm finding that playing with the side effect of a low power shot is more fun than it sounded at first.
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I dare anyone to get to the GFW Extra midboss.
I accept this challenge :V
edit: yeah, not gonna happen. I have an ideas for the third section though. It probably won't work.
edit: yeah it doesn't lol
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So apparantly, I never 1cc'd UFO with ReimuB.
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Tried it. I recommend killing one of the red "Eternal Meek"-like fairies before it starts shooting, dodge the other one, and then get lucky and squeeze through the "thick rings" fairy.
Sorta like VoWG....
fakedit: made it past those fairies. derped right after, though.... :derp:
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(http://i53.tinypic.com/14eceix.jpg)
poop
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So, uh. I assume C2 isn't exactly the greatest choice for the No Freeze challenge.
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I take that back about doing gfw extra it's pretty much impossible =/ Now ill just be glad to make it to the 4th part :derp:
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I've yet to give any of the routes a serious try on Hard or Lunatic, and I don't know if I will considering their denser patterns and suicide bullets. On Easy, Route A-1 is probably the best option for finishing with a high life count, as its only truly hard attack is the Three Fairies' third nonspell. I've played through the B and C Routes on Normal and come to the conclusion that none of them are very feasible for a no-freeze survival challenge. I've spent more time with A-2 than A-1 on Normal, but I have a feeling that for their Stage 2's, Star is probably easier than Sunny (don't quote me on this), while Daiyousei and Lily Black are equal in difficulty from a practical standpoint (i.e. expect to lose at least one life on each).
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Died to stupid QED rings multiple times. I'll need much more practice before submitting anything.
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Alright Naut you stupid... i'll participate in your evil tournament. UFO - you did that on purpose didn't you?
Though i'll only be playing Normal Mode and maybe Fairy Wars.
I suck too much at UFO to be playing it for score. And since the normal highscore is currently 600M it should be easily beatable. I'm gonna need competition.
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Alright Naut you stupid... i'll participate in your evil tournament. UFO - you did that on purpose didn't you?
Of course. Would you expect any less?
Though i'll only be playing Normal Mode and maybe Fairy Wars.
I suck too much at UFO to be playing it for score. And since the normal highscore is currently 600M it should be easily beatable. I'm gonna need competition.
Step it up to hard mode and I'll compete with you :D
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my computer is low on RAM, so i can only play th1-10 and 12.3, so can you make the next tournament around th1-10?
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my computer is low on RAM, so i can only play th1-10 and 12.3, so can you make the next tournament around th1-10?
Try setting the framerate to only 1/2 or 1/3rd in the Config. It can make a huge difference to making the game play fullspeed.
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Step it up to hard mode and I'll compete with you :D
Ha. As if i can dodge bullets and do proper UFO collection at the same time. Maybe i'll do something with Hard but its much more tempting to play on Normal where there is no bullets to dodge so i can concentrate exclusively on UFO collection.
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As I said on IRC, somehow using the C-key instead of the Y-key to fire prevents my laptop from keylocking during diagonal movement. Okay, I still can't hit the bomb button while focused, but since this is nobomb, it doesn't matter. COME AT ME BRO!
...Hmm, the score in the spechul challange depends foremost on the number of point items you collect, or, more precisely, how often you POC. At least on lunatic. Which is why I usually get better scores when I die during the stage than when I get to the S1 boss without dieing; It makes all the enemies explode and I can POC before the inferno starts again. :derp:
That said, this is alot more fun than anticipated. (If GFW had spell practice, I would be grinding Stage C's first card on lunatic for a gold medal. :V)
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Try setting the framerate to only 1/2 or 1/3rd in the Config. It can make a huge difference to making the game play fullspeed.
Can you explain it to me? I can't seem to find the Config
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Can you explain it to me? I can't seem to find the Config
It's the exe in the folder for whatever game(s) you're doing this with. It should be called custom.exe (or custom_e.exe if you've english patched).
For TH10, it's under Rendering Rate, and in 11 and 12, it's under Frameskip.
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It's the exe in the folder for whatever game(s) you're doing this with. It should be called custom.exe (or custom_e.exe if you've english patched).
For TH10, it's under Rendering Rate, and in 11 and 12, it's under Frameskip.
Thanks, but doing that only increase fps by 15, which makes the fps around 25. I guess I'll save up some money to buy a new RAM
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(http://i60.servimg.com/u/f60/12/80/32/92/th/untit201.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=953&u=12803292)
hurr
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(http://i60.servimg.com/u/f60/12/80/32/92/th/untit201.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=953&u=12803292)
hurr
How long did you last against Shou? :ohdear:
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I just went "no" and restarted for that particular run.
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I gotta say, this tournament has taught me to treat the lives I have in UFO more carefully, and it's drastically increased my overall performance in this game.
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upside-down-question-mark dude you are hilarious for thinking that your replays could have been passed as valid at all
when somebody mentioned that you got to gfw extra's fourth phase i was like "ok" because it's indeed possible
of course i never actually took a look at your replays, which i now just did
oh my goooooood hahahaha
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Looking at those replays indeed is hilarious. How could he expect nobody to realize? I'll just go grab them all from the replay site before he pulls a Riskbreaker and take em' down.
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Oh hey the tournament's over.
Oh hey my GFW Extra score is still second place.
How the hell did that happen.
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Btw, scoring challenge idea..... Touhou 13 (demo ver.)!!!!!!!! (when it comes out) :V
+1 i support this idea :)
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It is impossible to tell whether a replay is with artificial slowdown or not based on the replay. Nothing can be done to prevent it.
Hi. Explain. Prove statement. Et cetera.
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It would be harder, if the cheaters tried to do something to conceal their slowdown, instead of making it painfully obvious to anyone with any kind of experience of the games. The kind of jerky unfocused movement seen in those replays just screams TAS.
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It isn't only jerky unfocused movement, that's at an even high level than what this guy was doing. He pretty much swam up all the bullets. Looking at the replay it just looks like he's tried the stage itself once or twice; he moves into waves utterly brainlessly and swims up everything. It's ridiculous to say that you can't prove it. Yeah sure technically you can't prove a record of a sequence of button inputs, but you don't need to technically prove tool-assists to know that it is indeed tool-assisted.
I mean you can even look at it like a scale of "ability" of tool-assists. I could go through easy mode of a Touhou game with tools, provide a replay and you wouldn't even be able to tell it was cheated after watching it. It's when you start making obviously daring (read: retarded) decisions, read bullet patterns and react at superhuman speed, twitch unfocused in ways that are simply absurd, etc that it becomes easy to tell if someone cheated. You can even get to the point where the person makes a bunch of awesome dodges, doesn't realize what comes next due to inexperience or sheer rashness, and dies by walling or confusion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmKMg92WFps (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmKMg92WFps)
If I tried to pass these runs off as real, would you believe me? No, because it's fucking ridiculous. You can't "prove" I cheated, it's just glaringly obvious. This is just on a more grandiose scale than people who use tool-assists to cheat. Putting aside my frustration at people who cheat to complete a game, cheating for the purposes of receiving a social reward, whether it be praise or winning a contest or whatever, is just terrible. It's why I don't like telling anyone how to tool-assist Touhou, and why I generally don't like these kinds of information publicly posted.
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Hi. Explain. Prove statement. Et cetera.
As long as truth can be hidden, the problem is undecidable... unless you find an oracle :V
Sorry for a poor explanation. I feel like there is a mathematical truth behind this problem, but i can't put my finger on it.
A person could estimate whether a replay is without artificial slowdown or not, but that would eventually turn into a witch hunt. The only thing that can be done against this unknowingness is to accept it.
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Just watched his PCB Lunatic replay. He either doesn't know that there's a focus button or his focus button is mapped to some sort of slowdown macro.
edit: oops, it was marked as a no focus run. But either way, the point still stands.
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I knew that question mark dude was tas'ing once I watched his gfw extra run. I thought of calling him out but it's a p big statement to make and I didn't wanna cause probs. What an idiot though I'm glad he got wut he deserved. That being said I got first in a tournament for the very first time! o/
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Yeah, that is a pretty low move... I don't even see the point behind it; there's no sense of accomplishment in beating people through slowdown (unless it was a TASing competition, but that's different).
Anyway, glad to have these games out of the way for now. Considering we've had no repeats yet, I'm guessing next week will have... EoSD and PoFV, or some PC98s? Or maybe some Ten Desires demo since it'll be out then :o.
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A person could estimate whether a replay is without artificial slowdown or not, but that would eventually turn into a witch hunt. The only thing that can be done against this unknowingness is to accept it.
What? Nobody's going to search through mass amounts of replays just to attempt to find evidence of tool-assists, that's just insane. This is not an "estimate" at all, these are a series of very, very obviously cheated runs submitted to a contest. Yeah of course you get more suspicious of a guy that nobody's seen before and is suddenly submitting crazy good replays, rather than the guy that's been playing Lunatic and scorerunning for years, but that's a given and there's nothing wrong with being suspicious until your worries are debunked. I am not going to accept cheating just because you can't "technically" prove it.
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What? Nobody's going to search through mass amounts of replays just to attempt to find evidence of tool-assists, that's just insane. This is not an "estimate" at all, these are a series of very, very obviously cheated runs submitted to a contest. Yeah of course you get more suspicious of a guy that nobody's seen before and is suddenly submitting crazy good replays, rather than the guy that's been playing Lunatic and scorerunning for years, but that's a given and there's nothing wrong with being suspicious until your worries are debunked. I am not going to accept cheating just because you can't "technically" prove it.
I think you misunderstood me or i didn't explain very well. I personally also feel that the person cheated. I also feel like if he would say that he didn't and would stick to it and would make a neat lie to go with it (example: "i've been playing touhou on and off for 9 years already", "that amazing extra is the result of 5 days of hardcore touhou play" and so on...), then eventually people wouldn't have the right in my eyes to accuse him in hacking.
1)Do you think that someone could legitimately more or less duplicate what was done in that extra replay?
2)Could a person fool everybody with replays that are actually tool assisted?
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I knew that question mark dude was tas'ing once I watched his gfw extra run. I thought of calling him out but it's a p big statement to make and I didn't wanna cause probs. What an idiot though I'm glad he got wut he deserved. That being said I got first in a tournament for the very first time! \o/
Don't be afraid to bring attention to something that looks suspicious to you. Other people can check as well to see if your suspicions were correct, and really the worst that could happen would be that you'd be wrong, someone giggles, and that's that. It would be a much greater shame if there was actual cheating that went unnoticed.
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Don't be afraid to bring attention to something that looks suspicious to you. Other people can check as well to see if your suspicions were correct, and really the worst that could happen would be that you'd be wrong, someone giggles, and that's that. It would be a much greater shame if there was actual cheating that went unnoticed.
Yeah next time ill bring more attention if i notice this again. Still im just glad the dude got busted. that lame cheater >.>
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no guys
obviously the phantasmagoria AI has gained sentience and came here seeking a challenge
i say it's totally legit bro let's count him in
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1)Do you think that someone could legitimately more or less duplicate what was done in that extra replay?
No. It's ridiculous. Maybe some other example of tool-assisted shenanigans yes, but I severely doubt one could pull off some of the stuff here.
It's obvious his field of vision changes very rapidly even early on in the replay and can dodge incoming bullets that normally you wouldn't be able to process immediately. Also no-focus tapping in odd directions that are obvious indicators of him trying to figure out where to go next. And more stuff.
2)Could a person fool everybody with replays that are actually tool assisted?
Yes. At the very least, one replay or two. Maybe not even a full game, but it's doable.
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Where were your UFO scores Zengeku? :(
Outside of that, ty Naut for the safety net you posted :V
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1)Do you think that someone could legitimately more or less duplicate what was done in that extra replay?
No. It's ridiculous. Maybe some other example of tool-assisted shenanigans yes, but I severely doubt one could pull off some of the stuff here.
It's obvious his field of vision changes very rapidly even early on in the replay and can dodge incoming bullets that normally you wouldn't be able to process immediately. Also no-focus tapping in odd directions that are obvious indicators of him trying to figure out where to go next. And more stuff.
Agreed.
I mean, in Extra, he moved all the way to the opposite side AND dodged that impossible ring bullet many times no death.
Not only that, he freaking swam up bullets in Lily Black (total wall) and Luna's nonspell (also lolimpossible) in hard mode.
I can't really tell about the tapping in the odd direction (didn't watch carefully), but I'm convinced enough.
The sheer luck required to dodge ALL of those rings and red bullet spam in Extra section 3 makes it pretty much impossible.
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edit: FORGET ABOUT IT.
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Where were your UFO scores Zengeku? :(
Unfortunately I never got around to it. The usual stuff involving messing up UFO chains and getting tired of loleasy stuff. :V
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1)Do you think that someone could legitimately more or less duplicate what was done in that extra replay?
No. It's ridiculous. Maybe some other example of tool-assisted shenanigans yes, but I severely doubt one could pull off some of the stuff here.
It's obvious his field of vision changes very rapidly even early on in the replay and can dodge incoming bullets that normally you wouldn't be able to process immediately. Also no-focus tapping in odd directions that are obvious indicators of him trying to figure out where to go next. And more stuff.
Oh man, i was so expecting this kind of answer :D Maybe all i am doing is showing my understanding down others throat or maybe not. No offense, but the fact that you think its ridiculous to duplicate what was done seems to be common sense defying :wat:
So... thinking ahead:
I really wouldn't want to end up with being forced to duplicate what he did to disprove this. There is a simpler unprecise method of estimating the time it would take to make a similar replay. For that the game should be broken down to smaller parts. For example calculate your success rate of going trough that dense ring of bullets while also avoiding the fast bullets shot by one fairy. What you should find is that it is not impossible after all. Do the same for the other significantly different parts of the stage and then calculate the probability of pulling off a "perfect" run. Based on that the avg time it takes to do this could be estimated.
Time to unlock GFW extra just in case! :V
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Oh man, i was so expecting this kind of answer :D Maybe all i am doing is showing my understanding down others throat or maybe not. No offense, but the fact that you think its ridiculous to duplicate what was done seems to be common sense defying :wat:
So... thinking ahead:
I really wouldn't want to end up with being forced to duplicate what he did to disprove this. There is a simpler unprecise method of estimating the time it would take to make a similar replay. For that the game should be broken down to smaller parts. For example calculate your success rate of going trough that dense ring of bullets while also avoiding the fast bullets shot by one fairy. What you should find is that it is not impossible after all. Do the same for the other significantly different parts of the stage and then calculate the probability of pulling off a "perfect" run. Based on that the avg time it takes to do this could be estimated.
Time to unlock GFW extra just in case! :V
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WVE106JQoU&feature=related
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Oh man, i was so expecting this kind of answer :D Maybe all i am doing is showing my understanding down others throat or maybe not. No offense, but the fact that you think its ridiculous to duplicate what was done seems to be common sense defying :wat:
...
You're missing his point. It's not about how far the guy got, it's about how he did it. The way he moves and handles the attacks is simply nonsensical and it should be obvious to anyone who has some actual shooting game experience. Real good survival players try to minimize their risks but this guy just rushes through everything and somehow manages to survive every time.
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Unfortunately I never got around to it. The usual stuff involving messing up UFO chains and getting tired of loleasy stuff. :V
Then why didn't you crank the difficulty- waait a minute...
No offense, but the fact that you think its ridiculous to duplicate what was done seems to be common sense defying :wat:
Are you one of those people, by chance, who looks around and thinks "wow these people around me are all [stupid / crazy]; I'm the only [smart / sane] person on this planet"? Because you really seem like you're one of those people right now with this statement.
With regard to your planning of calculations, I do hope you've had enough practice with both large numbers and small ones, because you'll be having a field day with those. Just because I feel like it, I'll say that the person has other replays for you to ogle over as well (http://replays.gensokyou.org/index.php?u=PPP&g=--&p=&t=--&d=--&ch=0).
Outside of that, yes you completely missed the point (see: above post). Deducing a TAS isn't all about mathematics. Hell, it's doesn't have much to do with it, unless you want to get your hands dirty and tired from trying to work things out. Here, let me quote this for you in case you skimmed over it:
It's obvious his field of vision changes very rapidly even early on in the replay and can dodge incoming bullets that normally you wouldn't be able to process immediately. Also no-focus tapping in odd directions that are obvious indicators of him trying to figure out where to go next. And more stuff.
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Then why didn't you crank the difficulty- waait a minute..
Because that would add an additional layer of restarting as I would need not only optimal ufo collection but optimal survival play as well. Having to restart because of getting hit by some random bullet coming out of nowhere on Kogasa condemning oneself to yet another 5 minutes of busywork until you can get back to where you were at. Considering how much time it would take to get a decent run through to Stage 4 and not screw it up from there it would only mean more running through the same levels again.
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For example calculate your success rate of going trough that dense ring of bullets while also avoiding the fast bullets shot by one fairy. What you should find is that it is not impossible after all. Do the same for the other significantly different parts of the stage and then calculate the probability of pulling off a "perfect" run. Based on that the avg time it takes to do this could be estimated.
Okay. Let's play.
success rate of going trough that dense ring of bullets while also avoiding the fast bullets shot by one fairy
Since he hardly manages to pull this off with each wave, this is an irrelevant calculation, so let's modify this a little bit. Instead of one ring of bullets and one randafairy with each wave, here's what he actually dodges through.
two randafairies
one randafairy plus one ring
two randafairies plus one ring
two randafaires plus one ring (death)
one randafairy plus one ring
two randafairies at the top of the screen plus one ring (dies to the ring, but survives the randafairies)
Let's just look at the rings for now. Three ring dodges are made, and let's face it, at that speed, you're not reading that. If you dodge it, it was luck. I'll give it a 50% chance that you survive that, and that's if you're at the top of the screen. Dodging three rings with this probability estimate, you get 12.5% chance. But that's actually a generous estimate; I'm giving it 50% per ring because there's about 50% bullet space and 50% hole. But to dodge it, you have to fit 100% into a hole, while clipping a bullet is death. So there's less than 50% safe spot.
I'll skip over the probability for single randafairies. Those can be dodged.
As for pairs of randafairies, again, three successful wave dodges are made. Each randafairy fires 90 blasts: one blast per frame for 90 frames. Each blast covers about 20 degrees centered in a random direction from the fairy. I'll give the probability that, if you're caught within the 20 degree coverage of a wave, and you're at the bottom of the screen, you have, again, a 50% chance to luckily squeeze through (I'm being generous again, because of the thing I mentioned about fitting into a hole versus clipping a bullet, as well as the estimate being more like 33% unless you're both at the bottom and in the opposite corner of the fairy, where it's closer to the 50% that I'm using). There's a 95% (340/360 degrees) chance that a blast will avoid you altogether, and in the chance you're caught in that blast, I'll give 2.5 of the remaining 5% that you squeeze through, if you're at the bottom of the screen.
Two pairs of randafairies are successfully dodged at the bottom of the screen. In other words, 4 fairies times 90 blasts each, 360 blasts total, each with a 97.5% chance of dodging. The odds of dodging this would be 97.5% ^ 360. The result? .01%.
That's not even counting the last pair of randafairies he dodges at the top of the screen, where the waves are dense enough that you can't squeeze through them. Another 180 waves with a 95% chance of each blast avoiding you altogether, but without the squeeze probability. Another .01% chance of that.
12.5% x .01% x .01%? .000000125% chance.
Now, this is a whole bunch of theoretical crunching that calculates based on a player who more or less stands still, rather than a player moves with any sort of skill. But we're talking about the probability of brute-forcing such a replay. Brute-forcing implies no skill necessary, thus, I'm sticking with the assumption that any motions the unskilled player makes against rings and pairs of randafairies, which are impossible to read for the average player, are no better than standing still (and in the general case, standing still is better than unskilled motion, because if you stand still, a bullet only has to pass you once, while unskilled motion gives any given bullet multiple chances to hit you, for example, if you back up into a bullet that has already passed you by).
And like others have said, this is completely missing the point. Just the first PoC death in the Extra stage alone invalidates all illusion of skill that he tries to pass as legitimate. No one would think that was a good idea beyond a first, blind attempt, and if someone tried it due to a random brain malfunction, it's far too early in the stage to not hit retry.
Trust me, I'm the last person who wants to point fingers at cheaters, but sometimes you just have to accept that there are dishonest people out there, and that you can't just blindly believe everything you see to be the result of an honest man's effort.
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And like others have said, this is completely missing the point. Just the first PoC death in the Extra stage alone invalidates all illusion of skill that he tries to pass as legitimate. No one would think that was a good idea beyond a first, blind attempt, and if someone tried it due to a random brain malfunction, it's far too early in the stage to not hit retry.
Hey, uh, in all fairness? I take a deliberate death in roughly the same point in time during my run; I do it deliberately so that I can use the invincibility time to my advantage and also make it up to the PoC for item collection.
It is, however, the complete lack of focusing that really gets me. Combined with the occasional instance of 'swimming up bullet waves' and the ending segment which is quite simply ridiculous... yeah.
I definitely find it suspect. I don't think it's impossible to make it that far, but I'm definitely idling on the side of suspect just on the Extra replay alone.
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@EX-beckett
haha :D It's "shoving"
Are you one of those people, by chance, who looks around and thinks "wow these people around me are all [stupid / crazy]; I'm the only [smart / sane] person on this planet"? Because you really seem like you're one of those people right now with this statement.
More or less like that unfortunately... I understand that i am stupid too.(others are generally still more stupid)
I see that this turns into a pointless discussion about things that are far from the original issue.
Original message:
It is impossible to tell whether a replay is with artificial slowdown or not based on the replay. Nothing can be done to prevent it.
Not sure what i'm trying to say. I'll explain it again, but a little differently. It seems likely that people who cheat are among us and no one even notices. As long as the cheaters cheating level is above the attention and detection level of others, he/she will get away with it. It is impossible to tell with 100% accuracy whether a replay is with artificial slowdown or not.
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Not sure what i'm trying to say. I'll explain it again, but a little differently. It seems likely that people who cheat are among us and no one even notices. As long as the cheaters cheating level is above the attention and detection level of others, he/she will get away with it. It is impossible to tell with 100% accuracy whether a replay is with artificial slowdown or not.
Its impossible to prove with 100% certainty but its still easy to tell when cheating have been used as long as we are talking about a certain level of danmaku difficulty
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@EX-beckett
haha :D It's "shoving"
Don't you "haha" at me, you fucker.
More or less like that unfortunately... I understand that i am stupid too.(others are generally still more stupid)
I sincerely doubt there's someone more fuckin' stupid than you out there.
I see that this turns into a pointless discussion about things that are far from the original issue.
There should be no discussion in the first place, except that you are FUCKING STUPID and for WHATEVER FUCKING STUPID REASON refuses to see the FUCKING OBVIOUS. Then people with GODLY PATIENCE tried to explain to you why obvious stuff is obvious but since your mission on Earth is to spread stupidity, you started spewing out nonsense and FOR THE LOVE OF GOD YOU WON'T STOP UNTIL DIVINE LIGHTNING STRIKES YOU DOWN or something.
Not sure what i'm trying to say. I'll explain it again, but a little differently. It seems likely that people who cheat are among us and no one even notices. As long as the cheaters cheating level is above the attention and detection level of others, he/she will get away with it. It is impossible to tell with 100% accuracy whether a replay is with artificial slowdown or not.
Except that that guy's cheating was ridiculosly obvious and you still tried to argue when he was disquilified. WHAT IS YOUR FUCKING POINT YOU FUCKING FUCKER.
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(others are generally still more stupid)
...Then I'd argue you don't understand it, but this is neither the place nor the time for such a thing.
I see that this turns into a pointless discussion about things that are far from the original issue.
Like here. This discussion has a pretty major point - namely that I think this is the first time in the Tournament that somehow has been accused of cheating and been disqualified as a result. Figuring out how we're going to deal with this in the future, whether or not this was a fair disqualification, is a pretty important discussion. And it is completely connected to your original triggering statement, although that's hardly the only thing that people want to discuss here.
You are correct in that it's usually impossible to be absolutely 100% certain if a replay was tool-assisted. Almost every replay using artificial slowdown created these days no longer leaves the evidence in the replay's slowdown counter.
In the abscence of obvious evidence, however, there are also a hell of a lot of us here who have watched hundreds, even thousands of replays, and taken just as many runs at the games themselves. It's not impossible to notice moments of ridiculously improbable skill where exceedingly unnecessary risks are taken that not even someone playing for score would attempt, giving reason to suspect a run of being cheated. On some runs, we can tell with a great deal of certainty that the individual has cheated.
A few people here probably don't even mind if someone uses artificial slowdown to clear the game on their own time; but if they do it in a competitive situation and it's noticed, we're going to call them out on it.
It seems likely that people who cheat are among us and no one even notices. As long as the cheaters cheating level is above the attention and detection level of others, he/she will get away with it
You're right in that it is possible to produce an artifically-slowed replay that nobody would notice, or even necessarily have attention drawn to.
However, "Maybe we're not catching every cheater, so we shouldn't bother trying to catch any" is a terrible mindset to take, and that's precisely what you've implied by making this statement within this situation. Same with "We can't be 100% sure so we shouldn't do anything", which is another implication - which is again extremely unfair when we can still make the judgement in good faith in an effort to try to keep the playing field balanced.
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Hey, uh, in all fairness? I take a deliberate death in roughly the same point in time during my run; I do it deliberately so that I can use the invincibility time to my advantage and also make it up to the PoC for item collection.
Shows that I'm more schooled in survival theory than scoring theory. I'll take this one back, but as has been pointed out, there are other problems. I won't say any more because I need to get to bed.
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Shows that I'm more schooled in survival theory than scoring theory. I'll take this one back, but as has been pointed out, there are other problems. I won't say any more because I need to get to bed.
It's a fair mistake to make. It wouldn't have been a very good idea from a scoring standpoint normally either; in the case of this particular challenge though, it's one of the best things you can do.
In all honesty, if a death wasn't taken there and was instead during the deathrings, I'd be more inclined to believe him to have successfully survived the infamous third wave simply because an additional death there could've gotten him through another two sets of attacks, making a massive change to the odds involved (A death to the ring fairy's bullets at a corner of the screen will completely negate the next set of bullets). But it wasn't, and there's the other little things that make it suspect, and that just makes the fact that he survived it even more difficult to believe.
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Figuring out how we're going to deal with this in the future, whether or not this was a fair disqualification, is a pretty important discussion
I'd say that if the person accused of cheating doesn't even have anything to say about it, he just makes it more obvious that he is cheating. If somebody is unfairly accused of cheating then that somebody would probably try and defend himself. Right?
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I'd say that if the person accused of cheating doesn't even have anything to say about it, he just makes it more obvious that he is cheating. If somebody is unfairly accused of cheating then that somebody would probably try and defend himself. Right?
THE INNOCENT HAVE NOTHING TO FEEEEEEEEAR
or he's busy, or doesn't care; this is called jumping to conclusions, try not to do it
That said, lolobvscum cheating.
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It seems likely that people who cheat are among us and no one even notices.
Are you actually basing this on something or are you just throwing accusations around for no reason? You're basically implying that some of the current high level players are cheaters, since there's no reason anyone would submit bad cheated results.
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I think if you're going to accuse someone of cheating, you'd better be sure, and you better be precise about your accusation. Just throwing around a general "well some of these guys are obviously cheating" is weak, and anyone making a general smear against the top scorers like this only make themselves look bad.
Think there's cheating? Who, what game, what stage, cheating how? Cheating is a serious charge. Be sure your ass can cash the checks your mouth writes.
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THE INNOCENT HAVE NOTHING TO FEEEEEEEEAR
Exactly. If a person is a suspected cheater and doesn't defend himself, its basically the same as admitting things and I can't for the life of me understand how people couldn't care about being called a cheater while not being so.
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Enough on this subject. Several trusted and well respected people have went through and are damn sure these are tool assisted runs he posted. If he wants to defend his replays he can defend them himself. Stop shilling for him. As for everyone else, drop it. You're not helping the situation. There's no need for foul language and being a complete asshole.
At this point it's obvious noone's going to take his runs seriously until he proves he's not using tools, so just drop it and move on.
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oh hai guise :V
(http://i52.tinypic.com/25q91xs.png)
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it is 100% impossible to prove that I am not actually satan, the prince of darkness
therefore all men must worship me and my unholy power or risk being destroyed
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Assuming that people could only get a high score by using slowdown is asinine. The people here that can achieve such high scores obtain them through strategy, dedication, and a ton of practice.
Now, I'm sure there is a possibility that some cheating goes unnoticed. There is no definitive way to prove that one does cheat through replays alone. By watching replays, we can only compare their play style and strategy against our own. Besides cheating, the player in question made the mistake of calling attention to himself during such a difficult challenge. No-ice EXTRA was so hard, people doubted if anyone could surpass 200,000. An unknown player managed to do so, and naturally, others would want to see this guy's play style. What they got was a series of questionable moves and impossible dodges. Personally, I cried foul when he followed the very first ring fairy down. He was practically on top of it. Effortlessly dodging Lily Black on hard was just more evidence against him.
Now don't misunderstand what I'm saying here. I'm not saying to be less obvious with cheating to avoid calling attention to yourself. I'm saying that cheating in a tournament is not only insulting to other players hard-won skill and practice, but also to your own growth as a player.
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Dr. Strafe pretty much hit the nail on the head here, and on that note I think it's probably time to bring this back on topic and stop with the TAS discussion, it's been dealt with.
Since I don't think it was mentioned before, congrats to Dodgeball, Nereid, T, ShadyK and Naut Baity for the top spots this week! I suppose I'll have to think of something harder for next week. :V
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I recommend a STB/DS no-pictures challenge. It is the next logical step up from no-ice.
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Since I don't think it was mentioned before, congrats to Dodgeball, Nereid, T, ShadyK and Naut Baity for the top spots this week! I suppose I'll have to think of something harder for next week. :V
Lots and lots of people have been wanting to have an on-release Ten Desires competition, and I still support this.
Vibri's recommendation is also kind of neat but... how would we do it? Survival based on time on a specific set of cards or something?
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A blind Ten Desires competition sounds fun. Do you plan on giving any PC98 challenges?
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As for everyone else, drop it. You're not helping the situation. There's no need for foul language and being a complete asshole.
The guy spews an unspeakable amount of nonsense to protect an obvious cheater, then not-so-subtly puts everyone else under suspicion of cheating, and you have the balls to tell me to "drop it"? That's some shitty law enforcement right there.
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The guy spews an unspeakable amount of nonsense to protect an obvious cheater, then not-so-subtly puts everyone else under suspicion of cheating, and you have the balls to tell me to "drop it"?
He's the admin. Of course he does.
That's some shitty law enforcement right there.
Didn't you read what TSO said?
There's no need for foul language and being a complete asshole.
Which, given your excessive swearing, was almost certainly aimed at you. As for touhoumaniac, I don't think being a moron is against the rules here. TSO already told him to stop shilling for the (alleged) cheater, so it isn't like you were singled out.
In any event, the subject is supposed to be dropped :3
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The guy spews an unspeakable amount of nonsense to protect an obvious cheater, then not-so-subtly puts everyone else under suspicion of cheating, and you have the balls to tell me to "drop it"? That's some shitty law enforcement right there.
His posts are unreasonable. Your post was inflammatory. This post of yours is both.
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Week 5 Scoring Challenge: 10 Desires, Youmu full run
Week 5 Special Challenge: Don't Have A Rage Attack While Reading Touhou Forums
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Moving along:
I, like so many others, support a Ten Desires week.
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The guy spews an unspeakable amount of nonsense to protect an obvious cheater, then not-so-subtly puts everyone else under suspicion of cheating, and you have the balls to tell me to "drop it"? That's some shitty law enforcement right there.
Dude, his argument has been shown to be incorrect be damn near everyone already - do you think people are still taking it seriously? Don't take the bait. At any rate, yelling at TSO about enforcement of a law which doesn't exist isn't going to help. It's incredibly unlikely that the situation will improve if you continue this argument. Drop it.
Ten Desires week could be interesting.
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Week 5 Scoring Challenge: 10 Desires, Youmu full run
Week 5 Special Challenge: Don't Have A Rage Attack While Reading Touhou Forums
Ahahahaha
I support this 8D
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Drop it
You guys won't let me lash out at rampant stupidity and cold war witchhunt tactics goddamnit
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You guys won't let me lash out at rampant stupidity and cold war witchhunt tactics goddamnit
you just got trolled
Week 5 Scoring Challenge: 10 Desires, Youmu full run
Week 5 Special Challenge: Don't Have A Rage Attack While Reading Touhou Forums
only time i might actually take a score challenge bait
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you just got trolled
You are absolutely right. And since these days MotK seems to tolerate trolls a lot more than I find it acceptable - au revoir!
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The guy spews an unspeakable amount of nonsense to protect an obvious cheater, then not-so-subtly puts everyone else under suspicion of cheating, and you have the balls to tell me to "drop it"? That's some shitty law enforcement right there.
I didn't even mention names, I just told everyone to drop it. Yes I clearly singled you out, especially when I said to stop shilling for a cheater.
You guys won't let me lash out at rampant stupidity and cold war witchhunt tactics goddamnit
Damn straight I won't, because this isn't the way to handle it. Fuming and raging and screaming is doing nothing except painting you in a poor light. And you're arguing with the shill, not even the suspected cheater himself. And who cares if he made a blanket accusation that "everyone is cheating"? I honestly don't see how his word would carry any weight amongst the people that matter.
And does it really matter in the end? These are your accomplishments. It doesn't lessen yours just because some random person wants to make a random accusation of cheating. If you didn't cheat then the replay will speak for itself and reputable players will judge it accordingly. The community has judged that question mark idiot is a cheater and you're not. Why would this suddenly change because touhoumaniac decided to pull a McCarthy?
You are absolutely right. And since these days MotK seems to tolerate trolls a lot more than I find it acceptable - au revoir!
Yes, because handling trolls by saying fuck a lot is clearly the right way to handle it instead of, I dunno, ignoring it? Noone's arguing that you didn't have a valid point, everyone is pretty much in agreement that touhoumaniac was just shilling and trolling. But your delivery was not the right way to handle it, and at the point it had already been beaten into the ground and it was obvious he wasn't backing off. The point of my intervention was to just drop the subject entirely.
We've already handled it on an administration end, question mark's replays are considered TAS/cheat replays until he provides significant evidence otherwise. There's no rule for submitting cheat replays, so he won't get any formal punishment, but at the same time I don't see how he'll ever be welcome in any MotK tournament or score board until he can prove he isn't cheating.
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Yes, because handling trolls by saying fuck a lot is clearly the right way to handle it instead of, I dunno, ignoring it? Noone's arguing that you didn't have a valid point, everyone is pretty much in agreement that touhoumaniac was just shilling and trolling. But your delivery was not the right way to handle it, and at the point it had already been beaten into the ground and it was obvious he wasn't backing off. The point was to just drop the subject entirely.
My deliveries hadn't been the right way to handle these incidents for a long while now, as you might have noticed it. It's not as if I didn't know I was being inconvenient or inflammatory. But the lack of balls to punish either side is really annoying; when I joined MotK, shitposting wasn't allowed, and rampant trolling wouldn't go unpunished, but these days seem to be gone, apparently because people bitched and complained and forced mods into second-guessing themselves and letting stuff run wild.
Anyway - while I have made a few (very few) friends here, I have no particular sympathy for the community as a whole, and since I can't bruteforce law enforcement into enforcing some, any law, I guess I'll just solve this incident in a much simpler way.
"This is what we call 'making an exit'".
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On touhou forums it's probably more appropriate to call that a ragequit 8)
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My deliveries hadn't been the right way to handle these incidents for a long while now, as you might have noticed it. It's not as if I didn't know I was being inconvenient or inflammatory. But the lack of balls to punish either side is really annoying; when I joined MotK, shitposting wasn't allowed, and rampant trolling wouldn't go unpunished, but these days seem to be gone, apparently because people bitched and complained and forced mods into second-guessing themselves and letting stuff run wild.
Unpunished? Who said anyone was going unpunished? That was an ultimatum and a last warning. If he continued to post about it then he was going to get the stick. As for "lack of balls" to punish, oh trust me, there's no timidness when it comes to dealing with trolls. But at the same time we can't intervene if we don't know about the issue. You decided to take it in your own hands and go vigilante instead of letting us intervene. The staff honestly had absolutely no idea of this situation until your inflammatory post got reported. None of his posts got reported, just your vitriol.
How many times do we have to say this? If you don't report the problem then it will never get noticed. We are not psychic, we can't see every single problem going on. There's only a handful of us and there's hundreds, if not thousands of yous. If you had just minded your business and reported it he would have been dealt with. As it stands now we can't punish him without punishing you for your overreaction so instead we chose to tell both of you to back off. If either of you continue then we'll be breaking out the sticks.
Anyway - while I have made a few (very few) friends here, I have no particular sympathy for the community as a whole, and since I can't bruteforce law enforcement into enforcing some, any law, I guess I'll just solve this incident in a much simpler way.
"This is what we call 'making an exit'".
Yes that clearly solves everything by an hero'ing yourself. You just played straight into the troll's hands by getting riled enough to stomp out. Either way if this is your idea of keeping the peace, by beating people with rage and vitriol then I can truthfully say we neither want the help nor appreciate it. We don't appreciate being forced to intervene because you decided to take matters into your own hands instead of doing the right thing and just reporting and walking away.
This is just like real life. If you're punching some dude's lights out after he took a swing at you (or a bystander) you're both going to get arrested for assault, regardless of who started it. Could you get let off due to mitigating circumstances? Probably, but that doesn't make your action any less inappropriate and undesirable. The ends do not justify the means. We will never condone people acting vigilante and trashtalking and fighting back against "trolls", as the last thing we need is 1800 different interpretations on what is a "troll".
Enough on this subject, if you have any commentary you wish to add or questions to ask then PM me or another staff member. This thread has been derailed enough.
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Because that would add an additional layer of restarting as I would need not only optimal ufo collection but optimal survival play as well. Having to restart because of getting hit by some random bullet coming out of nowhere on Kogasa condemning oneself to yet another 5 minutes of busywork until you can get back to where you were at. Considering how much time it would take to get a decent run through to Stage 4 and not screw it up from there it would only mean more running through the same levels again.
stop restarting and just go with it
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Week 5 Scoring Challenge: 10 Desires, Youmu full run
Week 5 Special Challenge: Don't Have A Rage Attack While Reading Touhou Forums
Haha, yes. I would like to have a blind Ten Desires run. Maybe a Phantasmagoria challenge as well?
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Because that would add an additional layer of restarting as I would need not only optimal ufo collection but optimal survival play as well. Having to restart because of getting hit by some random bullet coming out of nowhere on Kogasa condemning oneself to yet another 5 minutes of busywork until you can get back to where you were at. Considering how much time it would take to get a decent run through to Stage 4 and not screw it up from there it would only mean more running through the same levels again.
stop restarting and just go with it
Don't throw away games if you're losing.
etc.
If you were trying to make a carbon copy (literal copy more or less) of a WR-level run from scratch with no experience beforehand; you're obviously doing it wrong. For both difficulties that I submitted runs to, I used custom routes which I derived beforehand (year-old routes, to be specific), and made slight adjustments for this particular week. Even then I couldn't execute them the way I wanted. Unless you're some sort of specialist, you should've been taking a step-by-step approach to scoring, slowly incorporating scoring elements into your run, and not trying to do them all at the same time. The scoring is, in fact, fairly non-linear after all. Meaning that you won't get a rather proportionate amount after each stage (or rather, supposed to).
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I have a little question (though this one may be subjective), this question feels to me more related to this thread than the scoring discussion one because it refers more to the games we've played so far (while people could get confused if I did the same question in the scoring discussion thread, since there are more games to which I could be asking this question and people wouldn't remember or focus as well as if I talked about the games we've played so far)
so the question I want to ask is: regarding risk/reward ratio, what would be the "do"s and "don't"s in the games we've played so far, considering the various players' ability range? (for example, tips for newcomers, intermediate players and more advanced ones?)
Also, wouldn't that lost life make a difference in later stages? (I mean, for those lives lost at the beginning, not at the middle. For some reason, though, I tend to keep playing even if I mess up one life while playing on arcade cabs -- not emulators --, more defensively though)
Also... (wasn't it *one* question? :p ) ... how do you people memorize stages? I feel that if I don't restart (taking a brief pause, most times), I may forget what hit me.
Lastly, sorry for not playing UFO this week. The special challenges were being surprisingly addictive, while I still had a bad impression about trying to score in SA (this one I think would cause more restarts from trying to graze the large fairies before Kisume, if I kept playing) and I didn't have an idea about which UFOs I should go for. Plus, I didn't have much time to grind GFW (even tried to 1cc it to unlock Extra but I can't ignore score, and get frustrated if I feel clueless and/or die too early)
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Hey hey, people. I was the first one to recommend such run :smug:
I also second a blind-run for TD.
Hooooray for having the lowest scores all around and being too lazy to do a complete, unlaggy run of UFO's Extra stage!
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I can't say much for the newer people, as scoring requires mastery over certain elements of the given game. But:
Do: watch replays, and work out why a player does something "differently", and how much of a benefit it is to their score (also note whether or not it's an instant increase, or an investment)
Don't: copy everything; take it one step at a time (a 1cc without excessive bombspam is a good starting point)
That's the general idea.
With regard to a single lost life, it's not significant at all unless you're aiming WR-level scores. If you're going by the logic of "Oh I'll just restart and that mistake won't happen again", you should probably reconsider your thoughts. Because I guarantee you that you will make a(nother) mistake sooner or later than that during other runs, and you'll restart there as well. Repeat ad infinitum. Hell if I had that mindset, I would restart every time I got hit supergrazing Ichirin. Yes there are times where runs become non-salvageable because you died too many times. But one? No.
With regard to arcade games, they give you a lower number of lives to work with (over the course of the game). By logic, it would then follow that each mistake is naturally more punishing.
And memorizing stages? Rumour has it that scorerunners hit the restart button a lot during Stage Practice (http://twitpic.com/1by9qx).
Cut: ohai
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I second Baity on low-level scoring, being a low level scorer myself. Learn the scoring mechanics for the game (a given), figure out the specific points where you can improve your score, and then decide whether the methods to do so are worth it for you. For example, a beginner sure as hell would not be sitting behind Keine and grazing her midboss spell in IN, but farming time off familiars or grazing Wriggle's last two cards or salamander shield lasers may be something to consider since they're pretty easy/low risk (and early into the run for Wriggle's case).
As for memorizing... I'm not sure what to say there, I just do it. I generally know most of the stages more or less inside out after a couple playthroughs. I occasionally forget what side of the screen something's going to appear on, or how many waves of something there are, but for the most part I have no trouble memorizing stages. If you don't learn them that fast, all I can really say is to play them more until you do. Doing lots of practice runs is especially important in UFO so you don't get your blues and rainbows mixed up. Survival runs aren't as big a deal though, since you're only really aiming for greens and reds with no specific timing involved, save for if you need enough point items to load them up before they fly away. I can usually go almost exclusively red and not miss out on much.
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stop restarting and just go with it
Why? If a run is not going optimal you're missing out on a lot of points rendering it useless.
If you were trying to make a carbon copy (literal copy more or less) of a WR-level run from scratch with no experience beforehand; you're obviously doing it wrong. For both difficulties that I submitted runs to, I used custom routes which I derived beforehand (year-old routes, to be specific), and made slight adjustments for this particular week. Even then I couldn't execute them the way I wanted. Unless you're some sort of specialist, you should've been taking a step-by-step approach to scoring, slowly incorporating scoring elements into your run, and not trying to do them all at the same time. The scoring is, in fact, fairly non-linear after all. Meaning that you won't get a rather proportionate amount after each stage (or rather, supposed to).
I wasn't trying to completely copy one. I just tried to imitate the UFO collection the best i could for the first three stages and then improvise from there.
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Why? If a run is not going optimal you're missing out on a lot of points rendering it useless.
If you waste so much time restarting then you'll never get even a half-decent run. Don't restart unless it's obvious that you won't reach your goal, and even if it is, you could still get some practice on the later portions.
Ok, I admit to restarting if something goes wrong on stage 1, but at that point I don't lose much time by restarting. Much beyond that, though, I just keep going, even if I make some stupid mistakes.
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If you waste so much time restarting then you'll never get even a half-decent run. Don't restart unless it's obvious that you won't reach your goal, and even if it is, you could still get some practice on the later portions.
Ok, I admit to restarting if something goes wrong on stage 1, but at that point I don't lose much time by restarting. Much beyond that, though, I just keep going, even if I make some stupid mistakes.
+1 to this. From my experience i can say that touhou also becomes much more enjoyable
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+1 to this. From my experience i can say that touhou also becomes much more enjoyable
Not gonna get much enjoyment if you don't succeed. Then you are just gonna have wasted 30 minutes. That's all. Heck, its not like this is too fun to begin with. 3 minute load times between bosses and everything. Its not like those pathetic excuses for stages can be considered gameplay.
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Not gonna get much enjoyment if you don't succeed. Then you are just gonna have wasted 30 minutes.
One would probably waste the same amount of time by constantly restarting every time a stage turns out to be suboptimal. I am personally not a scorerunner, but that's the logic I follow.
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I waste more time restarting than doing full runs :C
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I only take part in the special challenges on the ludicrous levels so that playing every run to its fullest and restarting all the time are not exclusive. BV
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One would probably waste the same amount of time by constantly restarting every time a stage turns out to be suboptimal. I am personally not a scorerunner, but that's the logic I follow.
Nevermind my previous post. I was a bit of an irritating irl situation and didn't really have the patience to discuss how i should approach scoring and UFO in the same sentence. Normally when going for score I don't even bother restart unless i screw up really bad. (unless in MoF in which avoiding death is mandatory, but surviving the first three, and maybe the 4th too, stages is pretty easy. Even on Lunatic.)
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Looks like no 10D this week, Reitaisai's postponed until further notice.
So what now? PoFV and EoSD? MS and LLS?!
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Please no versus games, they aren't meant for scoring and survival challenges. It doesn't help that the AI is random as hell.
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Pretty much why I had my PoFV scores removed from the scoreboard. The fact that scoring is pretty much random in that regard is so bad. The random attacks in other games can be an issue, but a game that is complete randomness is just no.
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suggestions
special: EoSD no-bomb
score: LLS :D (since all post-IN whole-numbered games were used, unless you want to play as other characters. Since I usually play it with ReimuA -- due to being the default character and me being too lazy to memorize how to play with other characters.. even though graze isn't as important here -- I don't have a character suggestion)
It's a pity that Reitaisai 8 got cancelled, but still I'm hyped for the full version. Better luck about this date, and of course, my condolences for those who've been afflicted by the tsunami and earthquakes.
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So, I'mma just randomly drop in to say we should have a 90FPS challenge. Or at least a 75FPS run.
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Pretty sure we ruled out speed increase challenges from the start. On the basis that not everyone can run the games at those speeds. Also the fact that many TAS replays already spoof the FPS as something higher(though I don't think I've seen a TAS that showed 90, I know I've seen ones that showed 75).
(unless it was a TASing competition, but that's different).
I don't know how well a TASing competition would go with people that actually knew the games. Part of the ridiculousness of TAS replays comes from people doing stupid crap.
That's something that would be saved for a different topic entirely. Tournament topic is obviously for 60 FPS play not counting possible minor slowdown. That and I wouldn't be interested in TASing anything anyway.
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Week 4 is up! I hope you guys like grazing. :V
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Maybe if I can actually get that EoSD VSync patch to work I'll submit something. How the hell did I 1cc Lunatic without that? Though MarisA 1cc would be harder than the one I did.
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I don't know how well a TASing competition would go with people that actually knew the games. Part of the ridiculousness of TAS replays comes from people doing stupid crap.
That's something that would be saved for a different topic entirely. Tournament topic is obviously for 60 FPS play not counting possible minor slowdown. That and I wouldn't be interested in TASing anything anyway.
Oh, I didn't mean to imply we should do any, just that that's the kind of place those replays should go since it would actually be fair then.
Week 4 is up! I hope you guys like grazing. :V
I like grazing! The question is how good am I at it... I think I'll work on EoSD for now and hope someone posts a few PCB replays by then. I'm particularly interested in how Heartbeam's going to handle the PCB side of this round.
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Pacifist midbosses and bosses, every stage obviously. I should do Extra.
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Oh god, it's grazewhore week.
I'm LOVIN' IT
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You hate this week don't you Naut? EoSD and PCB! :D
I'll probably pick the score challenge this time. I'm not that fond of PCB any longer so...
Maybe if I can actually get that EoSD VSync patch to work I'll submit something. How the hell did I 1cc Lunatic without that? Though MarisA 1cc would be harder than the one I did.
I'm pretty sure you're supposed to have the exe file be in Japanese. 東方紅魔郷 which it should already be by default when you install it.
In this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,3017.msg125680.html#msg125680) thread you might find some information that can help you out.
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You hate this week don't you Naut? EoSD and PCB! :D
Read me like a book.
I might submit something for the graze challenge but I've little motivation right now so :/
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Know what? You got me curious. Why is it you don't like EoSD Naut? I can understand PCB because that game practically plays itself but EoSD? I wanna hear your reasons, no matter how bad or good they are. ;)
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Ugly as sin, boring as all blazes and the scoring system blows. :opinions:
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How is point blanking and point blank grazing boring and a scoring system that apparantly blows?
At least EoSD has no gimmicks in scoring.
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Ugly as sin, boring as all blazes and the scoring system blows. :opinions:
Fair enough. Just one question however. You running with the retexture patch? It does wonders for the game.
At least EoSD has no gimmicks in scoring.
That might very well be the reason.
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Also, for the EoSD Easy mode runners, if you're not clearing 0/0, you're probably doing it wrong. You're not getting a clear bonus, so use those lives and bombs to the fullest extent possible.
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You're supposed to be spending lives and bombs in exchange for score on all difficulties regardless clear bonus or not.
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But the clear bonus actually means something.
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Yeah, I noticed that when I finished with 8 lives and got nothing for it =(. I'll do another run later once I mess around with PCB more.
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But the clear bonus actually means something.
Depends on how much you're able to milk the game by sacrificing lives.
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I hate milking the games, which is why I'm not a fan of score running at all. I just want to be really good, so I can like, dodge everything and capture spell cards and shit. At this point, with EoSD, I just need more practice pattern-reading, not scoring. :(
Which is why the only Touhou I'll ever score run is 10. :D
And on that note, I'd like to propose "capture as many spell cards as possible" challenge for the future.
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And on that note, I'd like to propose "capture as many spell cards as possible" challenge for the future.
I do agree that this would be cool, but how would we rank it? There's usually 20-25 cards in one run (and even less in extra), so you'd have a lot of duplicate scores...
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Speedkills. Fastest overall time when a tie is present.
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^That would be a bitch to go over and confirm though... I say score as the tiebreaker, as usual. That or something like end-resources, so we can decide based on who's better at the stages.
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In case of a tie, then score is the separator? Maybe?
I don't think anyone wants to go through and add up the individual times of every spell card destroyed.
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I hate milking the games
Which is why the only Touhou I'll ever score run is 10. :D
(http://i53.tinypic.com/9rufmg.jpg)
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you obviously don't like maths jerks >:(
another alternative is to go by spell card bonus, which while it has its limitations (EoSD rounds, PCB / IN / MoF have varied) is a consideration worth noting
(that, and there won't be silly debates like clear time vs. actual time and whatnot)
end-resources sounds like a nice idea, but going off that defeats the purpose of the challenge in the first place
the only reason why score was taken for fairy wars survival was because it was considered to be proportional to progress
ohai naut
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hey how's it goin' baity you doing good my man?
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the only reason why score was taken for fairy wars survival was because it was considered to be proportional to progress
Since nobody can beat GFW no-ice anyway it was probably the best course of action. :V
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Yup, and shot stays at level 1 (or 3 in easy mode). It will take a lot of time to defeat the boss, especially the last one.
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Not to forget, how ridiculous the danmaku gets if you don't freeze.
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image excluded
Sorry, I forgot to mention normal mode onry
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Sorry, I forgot to mention normal mode onry
Milking becomes more important the lower the difficulty you're playing :ohdear:
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What? I've tried milking a lot of things on normal mode, and nothing actually helped... Maybe I'm just bad.
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Play SoEW :V
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Grazewhore on LLS Extra! You'll finish with a bazillion lives~
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I hate milking the games, which is why I'm not a fan of score running at all. I just want to be really good, so I can like, dodge everything and capture spell cards and shit. At this point, with EoSD, I just need more practice pattern-reading, not scoring. :(
Which is why the only Touhou I'll ever score run is 10. :D
I would also like to suggest Mystic Square.
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Play SoEW :V
the shots in max power is awesome
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I just lost at EoSD Extra. That hasn't happened in a long while. Probably cause' i was using Reimu but whatever. I was playing as MarisaA. Its nice how much damage she deals... oh and extra stage is dull as fuck. Nothing difficult in it at all. That is not unlike most extras so I shouldn't be surprised. ZUN should make a Phantasm Stage in the next game... that actually has difficulty.
Anyway. I lose one life to the stage. Intentionally so i could get more lives and bomb fairies for their item drops. Then i lose the rest of my lives to Flandre for whatever reasons. The patterns are all very easy to read. At least until QED but what happens is Marisa's speed being too fast. I end up running into stuff.
I died at Cranberry Trap, Maze of Love, ATTWG and QED. I'll go try again. Hopefully with less fail and more win. Oh and the death at QED was in the beginning of the attack when things are still a piece of cake to read and super slow. Marisa moved further to the left than I wanted to. I hate dying to things when I have read the path well in advance and fail because the character is too fast/slow whatever.
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I hate dying to things when I have read the path well in advance and fail because the character is too fast/slow whatever.
The bolded part is why I don't use Reimu in this game.
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Hmm... that was at least better.
This time i at least cleared. Died at Kagome Kagome because the card was bullshit and spawned a bullet on my hitbox. Flandre seems to like playing dirty it seems. Also died at Maze of Love again. All just because I refuse to move around with Flan. Takes too long time. AND REIMU CAN DO THAT NO PROBLEM! Marisa clips it like nobody else though. Oh and I died at QED just as Flan exploded. Ain't that nice? Flandre did really good at trolling me this time. My score was 232M. I'll be uploading it later. And probably not improving it. Extra is too dull for that. I'd rather play Hard a bit. Lunatic with MarisaA is probably the worst idea ever though so Hard should suffice...
The bolded part is why I don't use Reimu in this game.
That is probably the reason you never captured QED! :P
I don't think she is too slow. Maybe too slow when unfocused but for focused speed, she is just right. But that's of course just my opinion. We all have different preferences with regards to movement speed and such after all. :)
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Couldn't Marisa do Maze of Love with 1-2 bomb?
I've never capped QED either. Closest I got was to get the health bar down to nothing and have the death wave kill Flan.
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I thought Deathwave damage didn't exist until MoF.
MarisA can still do the micrododge method on Maze of Love.
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Oh, and need more scoring tips.
General tips after watching your run:
When killing bosses, try to time their death when their's the most bullets on the screen. It looks like you try to do this in the beginning but then forget about it later on. It helps to be familiar with the patterns so you're comfortable waiting for the screen to fill up.
It's kind of hard when they're unexpected, but try to maximize the value of your deaths. After you die you're invincible for a few seconds, so use that time to graze and position yourself optimally. Also think about when the best time to get to Max Power would be - you don't want to stay underpowered for too long since you won't be able to POC, but sometimes it's worth it to wait until there's a ton of bullets on the screen before powering to max, since then you'll cancel those bullets for star points.
When you bomb or die on a spellcard or non-spell, wait a little bit for the screen to fill up with bullets again before killing the boss.
Some stage specific stuff:
Stage 1 - your goal should be to collect as much power ups as possible. Ideally you'll have at minimum 70 power before the boss.
Stage 2 - Try to have or be close to Max Power by the midboss so you can take full benefit of all the popcorn enemies afterwards. Until you're at Max, collecting power ups should be prioritized more than point cards (although try to collect those as high as you can too). Also, Cirno's first non-spell has a safespot which really isn't that hard to use.
Stage 3 - Practice milking Meiling's 1st spellcard. That part is really important.
Stage 4 - When grazing the hairballs at the beginning of the stage, don't shoot. If you don't kill them then they can shoot more bullets for you to graze. For the part with the books and lasers (after the midboss), start near the edge of the screen so that as soon as the books appear you can kill one of them. Then move towards the center and try to work your way up to the POC. For the bullet-cancelling fairies after that, wait a bit for the other enemies to fill the screen with bullets before killing the fairies. For the last part of the stage (with the three fairies), the easiest way to do that without bombing is to damage the middle fairy without killing it, then start attacking the left (or right) fairy just as the hairballs come in. Then you can work your way to the other end of the screen, using the time between when the fairies die and cancel the bullets to line yourself in front of the next fairy. You'll make more points that way too.
Stage 5 - Unless you really think you'll need your bombs for survival, it's a good idea to use a couple in the first half of the stage to be able to safely kill all of the enemies and collect point cards above the POC. Also learn to milk midboss Sakuya's non-spell - it's really easy and nets you about 2000+ graze. That alone will boost your stage 5 score by a lot.
Stage 6 - Pay attention to how many bombs you have :) Also for the safespot on midboss Sakuya, try to stay close to her during her non-spell. That'll give you more time to adjust yourself when the spellcard starts. You should practice this part as much as you can - it's really frustrating to do perfect on stages 1-5 and then die here.
If you watch high-level replays you can find other tricks you can do to boost your graze and collect star points. A lot of them will require using your bombs and suiciding to boost score - you'll need to decide for yourself how many of your lives and bombs you're willing to spend to boost your score while being confident that you can 1CC the game. I think the stuff I wrote above though are the most basic and easiest things to work on, and will net you a good improvement.
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Couldn't Marisa do Maze of Love with 1-2 bomb?
I've never capped QED either. Closest I got was to get the health bar down to nothing and have the death wave kill Flan.
I went for the spellcard bonus obviously. :)
Oh and that thing about QED, that was exactly what happened to me. But that seems to happen to a lot of people across their playing time.
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Yeah, it's almost as if you can't beat Flandre without dying on QED. Or gameovering, even!
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I thought Deathwave damage didn't exist until MoF.
I'm pretty sure it exists in everything except IN.
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Nope. MoF was the first game to have a death wave.
(Well, actually PoFV had it first, but who cares?)
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Nope. MoF was the first game to have a death wave.
(Well, actually PoFV had it first, but who cares?)
Er... What exactly is a death wave then? I was interpreting it as dying after a last spell ends by running into the bullets before they disappear.
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Death wave = wave of damage dealt to enemies on the screen when you die. (Closer enemies take more damage.)
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Showing up to say
Zenger - 232,336,990 - C - Replay (http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=12824)
Bitch stole my name! >:|
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Showing up to sayBitch stole my name! >:|
Sorry. Head's made of fog. Dunno what happened.
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Ah no time to participate this week. The challenges didn't have that much appeal to me tbh =/ maybe next week
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Damn it damn it damn it it's ended.
Scoring
Extra
JC - 235,805,410 - C - Replay (http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=12838)
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<- Defeated
Well, overall I did a lot better than I expected score-wise, so it's not all bad. At any rate it was fun. Thanks to Sapz for holding these. Also thanks to Heartbeam for forcing me to push myself.
Ugh, I must've play at least 30 games yesterday. I feel like I'm going to throw up danmaku.
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Spell captures... Sounds good. Learning Scarlet Team will be interesting too, I'm more used to border and Marisa solo =p.
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Let's see if I can get 4 billions on IN this week. Keep in mind that I have yet to break 3 billions.
Will watch some score replays soon, moreso to learn how to deal with the stages with them.
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Oh hey I should be able to finish the EoSD challenge this week.
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[11:32:24] <Naut> also eosd two weeks in a row :(
guess it's time to learn IN scorinngggg
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Blah, I hate this team so much. Sakuya has such a bullshit shot type, and I'm god-awful at time-farming through graze. Doesn't help that my perfectionism won't let me get past Wriggle. Time to spell practice grazing her last card I guess.
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56 tries at Wriggle's second boss card on Spell Practice. haven't nailed the milking on it yet. Milking her Last Spell is so much simpler.
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Oh. Its time for Touhou Milk Label 2!! . Well, well... i think i'll give it a shot.
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This week is probably going to kill any interest I have in scoring IN. Several attempts, haven't gotten past stage 1 yet due to screw ups.
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So let me ask then, is it The Scarlet Team or the game in general which you don't like scoring with? Personally I find IN, and PCB too, to be ZUN's worst with regards to scoring. Boss milking is stupid imo.
Regardless, I still made a run. Since I have never 1cc'd the game with The Scarlet Team it didn't fare too well scorewise. 2.6 billion. Stage 5 went glorious but my performance at everything else, especially that god damned Stage 6, makes me want to sacrifice my unborn children to the Scarlet Devil.
Where do I even begin? Saw bullet at Galaxy in a Pot. Thought it would pass just by me so I didn't move. It didn't pass by me. Then at Brilliant Dragon Bullet I started the fight by immediately getting hit by a laser. Right after my the bomb ends I proceed to get hit immediately thereafter causing me to use yet another bomb. Somehow I capture her 2nd card and got to the 3rd card which I of course screw up. Same thing applies for that stupid LSI card and I won't even talk about what happened at Hourai Jewel. Let's just say that my dislike for the card has deepened even further. And naturally I hardly manage to capture any spells at all during the last spell rush.
I won't hate too much on the Scarlet Team though. They deal good damage and have potential. Just too bad that that potential is immediately destroyed by the Border Team as they deal good damage too and have a decent focused shot. Seriously, Remi's familiar is very awkward to improvise with.
Overall though, its not too bad a team. Certainly no MarisaA from SA and its miles better than Magic Team and Ghost Team.
I'll submit my runs later on.
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It's probably more the Scarlet Team than the game itself.
Outside of being the best for Perfect Kaguya and No Deaths Eirin, I don't really like the team that much. The huge grazebox is nice, but huge hitbox isn't. The shot requires more memorization to score well with than Netherworld Team or Border Team. And Reimu is a rageworthy boss unlike Marisa. That and deathbomb timer seems nonexistent if you're not on a boss spellcard.
I should be able to break my Border Team high score and at least get somewhere over 3 billion this week as I don't doubt my ability to at least get that much, but 4 billion is probably an unrealistic goal for me at the moment.
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The huge grazebox is nice, but huge hitbox isn't.
I didn't find the size of the hitbox to be a big problem as I was still able to dodge many tiny gaps despite the larger hitbox but I suppose the fact that she makes shorter work of that Kaguya is commendable.
And Reimu is a rageworthy boss unlike Marisa.
I don't really see your problem with Reimu. Outside of her last spell she seems pretty tame to me. I would definitely say Marisa is harder... and she is not even that hard either.
Oh and what is your Border Team high score. Mine is 2.98 billion. i was really irritated about not getting 3 billion there.
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2.93 billion off my old 2 death run IIRC. A 1LC with Border Team would easily break 3 billion for me. Especially if I added a few of the scoring tricks.
But since this is Scarlet Team week, it might happen with them first. As for Marisa, the fight isn't too bad for me while Reimu is pretty much bomb/death spam. Hell, even when I tried no focus Reimu on Easy with Marisa solo, the fight didn't go too well, but I wouldn't try to No Focus time farm on Lunatic.
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Apparently, I still don't know the size of the fireballs' hitboxes ._. That or I got killed by a hidden yellow bullet.
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Finally, a worthy challenge this week! :D
I honestly hated both of last week's challenges, so I didn't bother participating. Not only do I find capturing spellcards with Reimu A easy/fun, I've also been practicing with the Scarlet Team in Lunatic since last month!
Prepare yourselves. 8)
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Capturing spell cards with the weakest shot type... I see what you did there :V
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I am so doing this IN Extra scoring. yesssss
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Made an Extra run. Fared pretty poorly. Might make a new one. I'll need to practice Fujiyama Volcano. Its easy once you remember what you to do but its not when you are going in blind.
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Still can't graze boss Wriggle consistently or midboss Wriggle at all. I don't even want to think of the hell I'm gonna have to go through with midboss Keine... I don't think this score run is happening, I may just have to say fuck it and just do a no focus (minus PoC/bullet canceling/Reisen nonspell) run to make the most out of Sakuya...
EDIT: BLARGHASDASKJDSAKL 2 spells failed on stage 3, alt-f4 ragequit
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I didn't even try the Wriggle second boss card milk or the midboss Keine spellcard milk or a few others. Screwed up all the other milks though.
Also, need to learn how to do Death Fairy. Also, haven't even gotten to Mokou's first spell yet this week due to dying on the stage or while grazing her nonspell.
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Just tried an EoSD normal run. It was all doing good until I hit stage 5 and 6. Marionette is evil and I don't think I've ever capped it. (at least in normal anyway) I died TWICE to that, using no bombs btw. Then Red Magic. I've managed to cap it before, but this time it made me use a bomb due to panic. I actually ended the run with no lives left, when I had a godly amount before those two stages. Looks like I'll have to practice those again and try for another run.
Also, I have no idea how to cap Marionette or Scarlet Shoot. :ohdear:
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I just tried EoSD, but panicked way too much against Sakuya :ohdear:
Too many instances where I tried to deliberately deathbomb and died with bombs in stock too many times ;_;
I know I've done it before but I may have forgotten. For Clock Corpse, it's just tapping, no?
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I know I've done it before but I may have forgotten. For Clock Corpse, it's just tapping, no?
Yes. You just have to be careful to avoid the random pellet bullets, but they aren't too hard to dodge. There are a few knives that are aimed at you, so you can ignore those once you tap out of the way. Then the rest of the knives leave a sort of trail you can follow, only having to tap a small amount to follow it.
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Also, I have no idea how to cap Marionette or Scarlet Shoot. :ohdear:
I suck at Marionette too. Stay closer to Sakuya I guess, so that the knives don't change direction so near the bottom.
Scarlet Shoot is basically trying to aim at Remilia and don't wall yourself (the metal fatigue bullets are quite annoying)
The order is: 2 aimed 6-way, 1 aimed burst, 4 aimed 6-way (longer time break in middle), 1 aimed burst, repeated.
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how do you bomb for star points with Reimu A?
I wanted to say you don't, but it looks like there's a very small frame to fire the bomb and get something useful out of it. Your efforts would be better spent elsewhere, but if you're swimming in resources on Easy then why not.
Scarlet Shoot is basically trying to aim at Remilia and don't wall yourself (the metal fatigue bullets are quite annoying)
The order is: 2 aimed 6-way, 1 aimed burst, 4 aimed 6-way (longer time break in middle), 1 aimed burst, repeated.
Not really worth mentioning, but you can say it repeats after the pair of five-way shots following the first aimed burst. And that second pair will always fire in succession faster. And there's a bit of a pause after the aimed burst.
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I wanted to say you don't, but it looks like there's a very small frame to fire the bomb and get something useful out of it. Your efforts would be better spent elsewhere, but if you're swimming in resources on Easy then why not.
I see. Well, I guess I won't try to do that then. My normal runs are awful enough as is.
Not really worth mentioning, but you can say it repeats after the pair of five-way shots following the first aimed burst. And that second pair will always fire in succession faster. And there's a bit of a pause after the aimed burst.
It's 5-way? :V *smacks myself for never noticing*
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Damn, getting 23/23 spell cards is not simple at all. So many attempts failed due to stupid Pachy/Marionette.
I guess time to suicide moar.
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So I tried a run of Easy just to put a higher score up.
Fail the scoring trick on Kaguya's 4th Last Spell then failed the 5th one.
Didn't think I had even beaten the top score, so I didn't save a replay. Looks like I actually did beat it, but I don't have the patience to go through the mode again. Plus, failing 2 of Kaguya's last spells on Easy seemed unacceptable to me. 1 would of been fair enough due to the scoring trick.
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So I tried a run of Easy just to put a higher score up.
Fail the scoring trick on Kaguya's 4th Last Spell then failed the 5th one.
Didn't think I had even beaten the top score, so I didn't save a replay. Looks like I actually did beat it, but I don't have the patience to go through the mode again. Plus, failing 2 of Kaguya's last spells on Easy seemed unacceptable to me. 1 would of been fair enough due to the scoring trick.
I'm not brave enough to do Kaguya's 4th last spell like that. I've been able to do it right only few times T_T
Also if you are suicidal here is a nice and very risky method for Reimu's evil sealing circle :D
(http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/8277/evilsealingcircle.png)
replay here http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=13023 (http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=13023)
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I wanted to submit some runs for IN Hard and Lunatic (I'm pretty sure I can beat the current top Lunatic score), and a better Extra score, but being busy and/or sick ruined that idea. :( bahhhhhh
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I really was expecting someone to come in and beat that. And since it was over when I got up today, I wouldn't have been able to beat a higher score.
Oh, and if Zengeku or anyone had beaten my score, I would have went and tried to improve it. But I wouldn't know how that would have went.
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Yeah, it seems like people were mostly interested in the special challenge. Poor IN :(
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I was actually really excited about IN until I saw that team =/.
Also Sapz, I should probably let you know my EoSD Easy run is listed under Extra :ohdear:.
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Oh, and if Zengeku or anyone had beaten my score, I would have went and tried to improve it. But I wouldn't know how that would have went.
If I had beaten your score I wouldn't have submitted it before 30 minutes before deadline. :V
Nah, obviously not. Wouldn't do anything like that.
I would've liked to make a better score too. My performance on Stage 2 and 3 was bad and Stage 6. Just horrible. A thoroughly bad run with 6 bloody misses. I didn't even apply any scoring tricks to it.
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I was actually really excited about IN until I saw that team =/.
I don't know why people don't like Scarlet Team. I'd say they're probably the nicest team in terms of game balance (Reimu makes stages too easy; Magic Team sucks all around, Ghost Team is nice though); not to mention that they have excellent scoring potential.
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The Scarlet Team demands more memorization to play well with and doesn't offer much in terms of direct advantage over the Border Team.
They do have a few advantages though. One of them being the Stage 6 opener being easier with the Scarlet Team that requires you to memorize less in comparison to the Border Team.
However, not being able to improvize as much really hurts the team imo. Sakuya can't do much on her own where Reimu tears things apart almost regardless of your positioning while Sakuya really only can hurt popcorn enemies and not that effectively at that. Remilia, while powerful, has a minor issue in that you need to keep track of the boss location and having the familiar alligned with it.
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I don't know why people don't like Scarlet Team. I'd say they're probably the nicest team in terms of game balance (Reimu makes stages too easy; Magic Team sucks all around, Ghost Team is nice though); not to mention that they have excellent scoring potential.
My problem with them is that I'm bad at graze milking bosses, and they rely entirely too much on that if you want to have any reasonably decent score. Sakuya's spread shot just smashes up familiars and keeps putting her under 80, not to mention she's weak as hell, and time farming on bosses with her is probably worse than a really half-ass Remi performance. I'm not a big fan of Reimu for that either, but she's still a million times better than Sakuya imo, plus Reimu is great on the stages. Magic team can at least be treated as a solo-Marisa, and ghost team has Youmu. Also, I'm not really used to Remi's shot type, but I'd be willing to learn if Sakuya wasn't so horrible >_>. I think the only choices that I'd have been even more against would be solo Sakuya and solo Alice...
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Just in case you haven't realised yet, I am deliberately choosing the 'fun' shot types. :V I thought Scarlet Team was more popular than that though, huh. I always thought they were the most fun team to use.
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You and Naut are both most vile creatures. But that's what I like about ya'. ;)
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Scarlet Team is so fun, you guys are all just haters
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Completely forgot to upload my replays :colonveeplusalpha:
Scarlet Team is so fun, you guys are all just haters
This.
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Just in case you haven't realised yet, I am deliberately choosing the 'fun' shot types. :V
Why do I think there will be a UFO Marisa B challenge looming over the horizon?
Scarlet team wasn't bad. Sakuya solo would have been much worse. I did like the slowing down of the falling items though.
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It's like MarisaC vs ReimuB in MoF~
When using Scarlet Team... If the boss doesn't move, you can plant your bats right there for about 50% of your total damage output no matter where you are on screen. Notably most of Kaguya's cards or some of Reimu's, maybe. If you unfocus, your bats will move with you but it's the same way with Border that you need to get a lock on again for Ran when you refocus. In both scenarios you need to get under the boss again if you need to unfocus.
If the boss moves and if you stay in one area, the boss will always move towards you, so the boss will always be in the general area. Yukari might win over Remilia in this instance depending on the movements.
If you move, the bats will continue to stay under the boss until the boss moves towards you, in which case you can just tap focus to move them back right underneath.
Of course, you have to deal with Sakuya's terribad shot, but it's mainly for those reasons that MarisaC will win against ReimuB (at least against VoWG lololol) no matter how much power you have.
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Scarlet Team is so fun, you guys are all just haters
Yes. You should try hating too. Its fun. :V
Seriously though, why choose an inferior shottype?
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Seriously though, why choose an inferior shottype?
Fun
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Fun
Score
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Why do I think there will be a UFO Marisa B challenge looming over the horizon?
Scarlet team wasn't bad. Sakuya solo would have been much worse. I did like the slowing down of the falling items though.
UFO marisa b is actually fun. its better than both reimu shot types.
Sakuya solo? Have you ever tried Alice solo?
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Seriously though, why choose an inferior shottype?
Again, they have separate scoreboards.
Seriously, why choose the most commonly used shottype for a challenge like this?
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Scarlet Team was always a combination I wanted to try but never set aside any time for. Burning though stuff remarkably fast, very little temptation prolong the fight and shoot at familiars during a spell because the rate sucks, a stage four boss I'd rather see because I'm tired of Marisa's antics. Stage four mostly because of those fairies you need to take out and still hit the POC. I may have wised up since then and the window of opportunity for the Border Team isn't so small after all, but I get to be extra lazy with the Scarlet Team. And the graze milking advantage, but I don't practice that in this game.
I guess there's the lackluster bombs, but I'm in no position to give my opinion on that.
I'm just repeating words from somewhere, but I see the tournament as an opportunity to try your hand at a challenge you normally wouldn't attempt by yourself, not to drill the game again with a cookie-cutter shot type (and I probably used that the wrong way).
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Fun
Not fun enough for you to participate then? Enigma didn't even get any competition.
I'm just repeating words from somewhere, but I see the tournament as an opportunity to try your hand at a challenge you normally wouldn't attempt by yourself, not to drill the game again with a cookie-cutter shot type (and I probably used that the wrong way).
I suppose that makes sense in a way. Playing the game with other shots does make it a little different and fresh.
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Not fun enough for you to participate then? Enigma didn't even get any competition.
I don't like IN, not even the fun characters can get me to play it
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Sakuya solo? Have you ever tried Alice solo?
Yep. Every time I use Magic Team. :V I spend a lot of time in focus mode. I very much prefer Marisa solo for IN. Perhaps because I have become spoiled with the full-time PoC from the later games. (yes I am aware of the focus PoC in IN)
I've noticed that most of the challenge weeks have some sort of theme to them:
1. MoF & PCB - try to clear the game without dying once
2. SA & IN - get through the game without focus
3. UFO & FW - Naut is an evil bastard. :]
4. EoSD & PCB - Grazing to boost score as much as possible.
5. IN & EoSD - Tired of Remilia yet? Too bad.
Sure, the theme mainly hinges on the Special Challenge, but it's interesting to see how it coincides with (effectively playing) the Scoring Challenge.
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I don't like IN, not even the fun characters can get me to play it
Then go score in MoF with MarisaC. Its almost the same thing as Scarlet Team. Except you don't get spread shots. But that shouldn't be a problem.
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Then go score in MoF with MarisaC. Its almost the same thing as Scarlet Team. Except you don't get spread shots. But that shouldn't be a problem.
It's not almost the same as Scarlet Team. Scarlet Team is just barely more powerful than Needles. MarisaC is kill-everything-before-things-get-hard (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPqlrqOdVIs#t=21m3s) more powerful than ReimuB could ever hope of reaching (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYKLMCPyC2w#t=3m37s).
Just watch as the next contest is a no bomb run of MoF with as few deaths as possible.
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Sure its capable of killing VoWG before it gets hard but what about the rest of the game, more specifically, the stages? I'm also a little nervous about hitbox sizes.
MoF Is certainly no SA in terms of bullet density so it shouldn't be that problematic but I would still prefer as small a hitbox as possible for dodging PWG.
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She has the nice advantage of being able to deal with both sides of the screen on stages. More fairies die faster, less bullets do dodge, and she has way more power than ReimuA. Personally, I'm still with the homing type because it takes way less effort than setting up your ice for for everything, but you pay for that convenience with a big power drop.
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Who plays Homing Reimu anyway? Needle Reimu is the way man! Covering both sides of the screen? That is helpful in MoF when again? Unless she can trivialize the Post-Momizi spam I can't recollect any other challenging stage part in MoF. Naturally speaking from the perspective that MoF is pretty much my favorite and therefore have played it a lot and gotten really familiar with everything.
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Covering both sides of the screen? That is helpful in MoF when again?
How about every single stage part where you want to hold the chain?
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Fair point. :)
But ReimuB would technically be able to hold the chain just as well if you know what you are doing. I'm not sure. Still, it wouldn't matter if MarisaC did have exclusive opportunities at maintaining the chain, ReimuB only have to compete with other ReimuB players.
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Personally I only use ReimuB over the others because I suck too much to survive if I don't. Speaking Lunatic of course, where I suck too much to survive even WITH ReimuB. With weak shots the bosses will wreck me, MarisaB is cheating, and I can't get used to MarisaC. But on lower difficulties I like to go with ReimuA/C just because they're weaker, and because ReimuC seems really underused. Nevermind MarisaA, she's even more awkward than MarisaC.
But yeah, on my reasoning for stgaes, I've always been garbage at dodging the stage 4 post-Momiji wave (not that homing helps at all here <_<) and PoCing on the pre-Aya bats (helps here!!)... I also bomb a lot on stage 5, which I find very irritating (even if do I get most of that power back from point items). There seems to always be at least one stage of a game that likes to fuck with me, and homing/spread shots usually help me out with that a little. They're also nice when a new game comes out to get a feel for it, but that's another thing altogether.
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ReimuB is perfectly fine at chaining, trust me.
It's when you kill too many things quickly like with ReimuA that it gets difficult. (I don't play ReimuA so I can't really say for sure)
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Not an issue; you can still stall the (few) key points by simply not shooting, and / or letting items (hint hint) drop a bit before collecting them.
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MarisaC makes Stage 5 easy at least. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjNMZHQpoic)
It's capable of outdoing ReimuB in almost every situation. Almost, because there are a few cards where it's hard to lead a boss back onto the frost throwers.
Also, MarisaC has the lulziest Aya fight. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPqlrqOdVIs#t=11m40s)
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but terrible score
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but terrible score
I'll get to scoring when I can no-miss MoF Lunatic.
Edit: And it still doesn't stop me from having the highest MarisaC score for Lunatic here.
[attach=1 width=75]
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MarisaC makes Stage 5 easy at least. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjNMZHQpoic)
Stage 5 is really easy with ReimuB too.
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Week 6 better not be anything good I got exams 'n shit so if you pick UFO Sapz I swear :(
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Week 6 Score: UFO with MarisaA.
Week 6 Special: Get the highest amount of points in UFO with MarisaA.
:getdown:
But really, sorry for the delays dudes. I'll go do that (unless you guys want a break week or something).
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Week 6 is up. Go go go!
The special challenge this week is something of a trial run. Go give it a try, and see how it goes.
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Oh, my 2 least favorite games in the series not counting HRtP, Phantasmagorias, Photography, and GFW(but GFW is definitely above UFO for me).
Guess, what I'm not doing this week.
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PCB... that game with the slow bullets and lack of difficulty?
No thanks. The special challenge look somewhat interesting if there is enough people participating. I'm really bad at Shou lazors btw.
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Sure, it's not that difficult if you sit at the bottom of the screen and play everything as safe as possible. If it's boring like that, get up the screen, start taking risks and rack in some points. :V
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I'm in for UFO Stage 5 if there are others too. It will certainly make the stage more thrilling if I'm competing with other people than myself.
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Anyone got a score dat with stage 5 unlocked on all difficulties? I only have Normal open =/.
EDIT:
Extra - Chirpy13 - 684,993,340
Extra - Heartbeam - 687,779,850
Hard - Chirpy13 - 666,962,560
Hard - Heartbeam - 676,928,320
You planned those scores didn't you? >_>
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Wow, and I was thinking about a Stage only challenge. But UFO? Hm...I'm not too sure =(
I'll try it out, but I do want to do PCB to see if I can break my score
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ITT Naut flips out
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ITT Naut fails all of his exams
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HOW ABOUT BOTH
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You are in no position to complain! My exams are likely to be just about the time the TD demo gets released.
But it seems there are competitors for Stage 5 UFO. Cool. I'll see what I can do when I get home. Or during recesses or whatever.
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YOU ARE IN NO POSITION TO COMPLAIN BECAUSE MY SITUATION IS WORSE
LOLOL
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Yeah, I guess I'll go summon more blue UFOs for points.
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(http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/9360/rrrrweyaeh.jpg)
Most times used (~95%) should be from this week. Before falling asleep i involuntarily imagine collecting ufos and not failing.
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(http://i20.servimg.com/u/f20/12/80/32/92/th/th00010.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=962&u=12803292)
hurp
also where is zengekky play :|
I WANT ZENGEKKY PLAY
donut participate plx
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Rage Challenge
Hard
Chirpy13 - rea,lly,bad - 1 - Replay (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kclxPqjebzs)
This is not worth the effort!! >=(
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No SotW next week obviously because it;ll be Touhou Tournament for another week in a row due to the TH13 demo.
It's the closest we're going to get to that blind scoring competition. Of course, we'll all have some experience then.
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^Thanks for telling me! =D
My notes after playing it if anyone cares:
Marisa is awesome =D. Youmu is very awkward to play as, but seems like she'd be a good scoring character - the focus slash is very powerful, but it's relatively short range vertically and requires charging. UFO power-up system (.01 power per item, 1.00 loss per death), but red items are in much smaller supply, making a dying a pretty big deal here - hopefully this is modified a little with the full release. More on dying, you get white spirits for everything you kill in the after-death phase, which are very nice for score. Intentional deaths for scoring plus the major power loss on death makes it seem like scoring will be pretty challenging here. Point item increased through grazing, not too bad. Also increased through collecting blue spirits, a little scary. They aren't collected on PoC, and bosses drop them while you're attacking, so it looks like boss-hugging may be a part of scoring here... Third boss has the interesting ability to suck in spirits and recover health. Her last card requires you to pick up the spirits before she sucks them in unless you feel like going for a timeout. Bullet-wise it doesn't seem terribly difficult. Normal mode definitely wasn't any worse than (or maybe a bit easier than) IN.
EDIT: I see people talking about hypers in the scoring topic... I'm guessing this means I can activate them with C or something? Time to go check...
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This is annoying. I'm really wanting to do PCB phantasm for this but I just never get enough time for it. Gonna be out all day tomorrow, and after that, I have studying to do. I don't like this.
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I enjoyed this weeks special challenge, both playing and following. I'd like to say thanks for making this tournament and congratulations to the top spot holders.
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Just to give you guys a heads up - I'll be away at 1PM GMT, so tomorrow's games may start earlier or later than usual, depending on what time allows. Regardless of that, it'll end at the same time as usual, 1PM GMT on the 2nd of May. Sorry for the possible delay. :V
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Week 7 is up! Week 6 will be updated and such soon. :V
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Oh man, Week 7 will be fun. If this didn't happen to be my crunch-time week, I'd probably be able to do the special challenge too - I'm really overdue to learn how to supergraze SA Stage 4. I probably still won't be able to do much with TD, but since Reimu's my main anyway I should at least get some runs up there.
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I really wish I were good at grazing... SA stage 4 is one of my favorite stages of the series =p.
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I love SA. Except I can't graze ;_;
Highest score right now is only a measly 35 million T_T
I do love Stage 4 though. I'll try again later
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Man, I can't reliably get close to my best of 219 million before Satori. A lot of the time it ends up somewhere near 200 or 210. :/
Guess I'll have to seriously plan the post-midboss stage bits.
Also, these people without Stage 4 unlocked :/
I'll make a score.dat with this stage unlocked so people can enjoy.
edit: SA Stage 4 unlocked for ReimuB on all difficulties. (http://www.mediafire.com/?hb435jahzh0oo1s)
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To all you guys who edit strikethroughs into your old scores after submitting new scores - you are the coolest dudes ever. To everyone else - it would be badass if you could do that too. It makes updating much easier. :V
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To all you guys who edit strikethroughs into your old scores after submitting new scores - you are the coolest dudes ever. To everyone else - it would be badass if you could do that too. It makes updating much easier. :V
Will do =3. Do you want us to strikethrough stuff you've already updated too to keep track of what you've already done?
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Nah, if it's already updated don't worry about it, though obviously it's fine if you do anyway. :P It's handy for big updates so that people's new scores don't have to be updated multiple times for no reason.
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To all you guys who edit strikethroughs into your old scores after submitting new scores - you are the coolest dudes ever. To everyone else - it would be badass if you could do that too. It makes updating much easier. :V
Oops :ohdear:
Sorry :c
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It's never embarrassing to participate!!
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It's never embarrassing to participate!!
Actually quite fun, even if you can't score :D
I know I can break 50M in SA, but for some reason I cannot capture all of Suika's cards in one run :fail:
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Been trying out SA normal for the tourney, and I thought I did decently well with scoring. So I checked out what the score table looked like....
I SUCK! :derp:
Back to the drawing boards.
EDIT: And why is that smiley miss-aligned when it's aligned in the preview?
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Been trying out SA normal for the tourney, and I thought I did decently well with scoring. So I checked out what the score table looked like....
I SUCK! :derp:
Back to the drawing boards.
EDIT: And why is that smiley miss-aligned when it's aligned in the preview?
You can do it! I'm still trying to perfect Satori.
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You can do it! I'm still trying to perfect Satori.
Haven't gotten that good yet. Her second card always seems to get me. Especially in earlier said run, I died from an early pellet bullet because a power-up item was on top of it, perfectly. Figures.
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SA Stage 4 is amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks Sapz for this awesome challenge.
(Tomorrow I'll give the lower difficulties a shot. :3)
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Do we use the Practice Mode for the Stage challenges?
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Yes.
(I can't imagine how else you would do it.)
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Yes.
(I can't imagine how else you would do it.)
You can do a real run, and take the difference between the end of the stage and the beginning of the stage :getdown:
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Using stage practice is easier, and it ensures an even base point value.
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Yeah, easiness aside, the initial conditions a full run would be very different, since you would have more graze and fewer lives, which would make it unfair (and against the point of this challenge).
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And also, rank. The rank in stage practice will start the same, as in a real run, it'll be changed depending on how well you did earlier. Everyone has an even match-up this way.
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And also, rank. The rank in stage practice will start the same, as in a real run, it'll be changed depending on how well you did earlier. Everyone has an even match-up this way.
Rank doesn't exist past EoSD, save for Lyrica's opener. Nereid already mentioned the things that would change scores around.
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Rank doesn't exist past EoSD, save for Lyrica's opener. Nereid already mentioned the things that would change scores around.
Oh really? I didn't know that. Hmm, strange.
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doop never mind
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Shit. I forgot to submit a score this week.
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Figures, the day after the tournament closes I suddenly become loads more consistent at scoring the first two stages of TD. I could have used some of that to help study Stage 3 faster. Oh well, it's progress all the same. And surprisingly, I'm still finding ways to improve my Lunatic Reimu scores. I think 280 million might be possible. Too bad we probably won't see TD featured here until the full release, except maybe some survival challenge.
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All updated. Nice stuff, people.
Funen: Well, it's a while off yet. You never know. :V
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I think that's the last round I'll participate in for a while. As much as I like these, I'm just becoming more and more anal about my little mistakes and... Well, It's starting to upset me to the point where I'm not really having fun anymore. So for now I shall try to take on a Donut perspective, take it easy, and play for fun rather than score.
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I spent some days (not whole days) trying to enable stage 4 practice myself, having little practice with SA and trying to ignore scoring, then played DotS and some rounds of Ten Desires :D
Generally speaking, there are scoring systems which I like, and those which I don't (those which aren't inflexible or highly punitive or enforce/greatly reward memorization). Unfortunately, grazing still remains unfun for me :( (or games which are clip-happy, or seem like you're supposed to know the player/bullet hitboxes)
edit: those which aren't inflexible
those which aren't inflexible
:V :]
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I'd like to see a UFO stage 6 max graze special challenge. So many awesome graze spots and no one ever uses them.
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Is this still alive? I'm angry at myself for not finding this earlier, I love competition, especially in the most pointless subjects. Even more so if I lose. Some sort of a challenge which brings out an overlooked part of some game, just like the mentioned UFO graze challenge or something to that tone would be great.
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It's active every two weeks, a new challenge will start tomorrow.
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I'd like to see a UFO stage 6 max graze special challenge. So many awesome graze spots and no one ever uses them.
Well when scoring, you have the opening which you don't need to do anything special for, then crows for which you concentrate on killing all of them, then stream until Orin. Blazing Wheel doesn't give any special graze but you bomb it anyways to get as many extra points out of the next wave which yields no graze, then more crows, then BoWaP enemies which I guess you graze. Then Utsuho isn't worth grazing over capturing and bombing her noncards just whittles your resources for the next card and whatever. So you don't ever really graze any extra on that stage.
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Well when scoring, you have the opening which you don't need to do anything special for, then crows for which you concentrate on killing all of them, then stream until Orin. Blazing Wheel doesn't give any special graze but you bomb it anyways to get as many extra points out of the next wave which yields no graze, then more crows, then BoWaP enemies which I guess you graze. Then Utsuho isn't worth grazing over capturing and bombing her noncards just whittles your resources for the next card and whatever. So you don't ever really graze any extra on that stage.
I didn't know Orin's in UFO.
I'd like to see a 90 FPS challenge, but that's just me
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ufo
imma herpa derp
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Well when scoring, you have the opening which you don't need to do anything special for, then crows orbs for which you concentrate on killing all of them, then stream until Orin there are enough fairies for you to bomb for delicious point items. Blazing Wheel Nue's second-last wave doesn't give any special graze but so you bomb it anyways to get as many extra points out of the next wave which yields no something more valuable than graze even at this point in the game, then more crows point items, then BoWaP enemies Byakuren's first non-spell which I guess you graze. Then Utsuho Byakuren isn't worth grazing over capturing and bombing her noncards just whittles your resources for the next card and whatever. Also you don't really have resources to spare. So you don't ever really graze any extra on that stage.
doop
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Week 8's up. Hope you guys like Marisa. :V
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For everyone's convenience:
Imperishable Night score.dat with stage 4A unlocked for Magic Team on all difficulties. (http://www.mediafire.com/?ptp52s33w8iqqpi)
Spell practice is available too.
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Generally hate using Marisa but MarisaC isn't that bad at least. I think I'll play some MoF this week. Not so sure about IN. Reimu is a pretty boring boss imo. (As in, she can't do anything. That is of course until her last spell comes along).
EDIT: Why can't I even handle Stage bloody 1? Its suppose to be easy shit... feels as if the familiar doesn't have any range. And she pretty much forces you to be unfocused during the stages if I want to do damage. She is great for bosses though. (even if the benefit depends on luck)
EDIT 2: It doesn't have range. Follett flashbacks. I thought she was a clone of Remilia. Guess not. I'll go with special challenge instead then. I'm not gonna be able to pull a good score with MarisaC anyways without memorizing a whole new pattern for the entire game.
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I enjoy derping Stage 4A in the special challenge. I somehow always screw up grazing Duplex Barrier by dodging into the wave in front of me. And Alice's terrible bomb is terrible. At least Marisa hits like a truck and Alice is good for killing the fairies with tons of slaves. Oh Alice, why does ZUN hate you?
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I am enjoying dying so many times thanks to fat Marisa in both IN and MoF.
Oh, btw, Marisa C is hell to use in MoF...
y u do dis to me? :qq:
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MoF would be the only thing I do this week, since I can't be bothered to play much of IN at any one time. Then again, I'm not sure how much I want to use MarisaC right now. She's not that hard of a shottype to use, judging from what little play I've done, but still. And it becomes even more demoralizing when, just before the credits, the game freezes so hard that I have to manually shut down my laptop - yes, not even restarting would get past it. Obviously I don't expect this to happen again, but this feeling of utter hatred towards faulty programming needs to wear off first. ::)
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Marisa is not fat. (http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t270/FoxFanatic1995/th021.jpg)
I'mma time out that card with her just to show y'all...
Anyways, I'm intrigued with this challenge. MarisaC~
yummy.
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Not sure why you needed to reply to that in here as well. I brought it up in the rage thread only.
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Wait, I could have sworn I saw complaints about it again in here. Either that, or just disliking MarisaC.
Rereads previous posts
:V
Either way, I'm really intrigued because I'd be able to use the best shot in MoF~
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Aaand that's a wrap. I guess you guys are due for an easier shot type next week. :V
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Aaand that's a wrap. I guess you guys are due for an easier shot type next week. :V
I thought MarisaC was the best shot-type for most purposes in MoF?
And to be fair (although Marisa being my favorite character in the entire series could be biasing this), Marisa is an awesome human partner.
Alice is the one who causes Magic Team most of the problems, from what I've seen.
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MarisaC theoretically has the best scoring potential, but she's quite awkward to use, and requires more planning.
Bleah.
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<deleted: immature venting about mof, pt 1>
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Aaand that's a wrap. I guess you guys are due for an easier shot type next week. :V
Yeah please do. You ain't gonna convert people into score play if you scare them away with awkward shottypes. :D
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What awkward shottypes? You do realize that none of them (even the C's in MoF) aren't unique and you've played them in some form before, right?
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<deleted: immature venting about mof, pt 2>
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What awkward shottypes? You do realize that none of them (even the C's in MoF) aren't unique and you've played them in some form before, right?
In PCB there is SakuyaB. In IN there is the Youmu. Magic Team is also horribly insufficient but at least straightforward.
In MoF there is MarisaA, C and ReimuC. In SA there is all the Marisa's. MarisaC in SA is however pretty simple. Just way too weak.
UFO doesn't really have any particularly stupid shot types except for MarisaB who is useless.
Unique or not. Awkward nonetheless. MarisaC in MoF is similar to Remilia but she has some range at least. However, even she is insufficient in her game of appearance compared to Border Team. MarisaC in MoF pretty much have to shotgun her enemies with the flamethrower and let's just say that unless you have planned where to put that familiar you'll have to improvise and get up close which isn't exactly easy when the screen is full of bullets.
Now, nobody said it needs to be easy but I really just don't appreciate when things get difficult simply because the shottype cannot do what a simple straightforward needle/laser/locked-on options whatever can.
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Week 9 is up!
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FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF-
Accidentally moved vertically on stage 4, have to restart >=((((
EDIT: Well, at least I went from a death on Meirin to a no death stages 1-3 >_> *continues playing*
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hyyyyyyyyyyyyyypppppppeeeeeeeeeeee
get hype
prepare to lose again naut B)
maybe
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Yeah, I have to disable up and down on my controller to make sure I don't "accidentally" move vertically.
.. and hooray for more UFO goodness. I love that game.
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Unrelated to these tournaments, but still tournament related. Would anyone be interested in hosting/playing in an MotK PoFV Tourney? Maybe one round a week or something, to make it easier to match up peoples' schedules. I would host it myself, but I'm awful at organizing that kind of stuff...
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How can I temporarily disable my up/down keys?
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If you're using a keyboard, don't press them :V
ok seriously. I went into custom.exe (or custom_e.exe) and increased the Pad_Y_Axis to 1000. Assuming that you're not using any other software to regulate game controller inputs, (ie: Xpadder) this should disable the game from recognizing any vertical input from the controller.
You'll still want up/down on the keyboard to access in-game menus and such.
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Unrelated to these tournaments, but still tournament related. Would anyone be interested in hosting/playing in an MotK PoFV Tourney? Maybe one round a week or something, to make it easier to match up peoples' schedules. I would host it myself, but I'm awful at organizing that kind of stuff...
Will there be difficulty levels for the very weak/inexperience players and for beast players such as... (I dunno)?
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FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF-
Accidentally moved vertically on stage 4, have to restart >=((((
I did exactly this. :derp:
I should change the keys so I don't do that.
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Will there be difficulty levels for the very weak/inexperience players and for beast players such as... (I dunno)?
You mean like separate divisions for groups of players? I suppose so, but it would probably depend on how many people there are altogether. Also, a second thought, how would brackets work out if we don't have 8/16/32/etc players? We could use a scoring system and have people play each person who's still in for each round (which would also solve the problem of a beginner getting paired with a pro), but that could get pretty time consuming.
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Unrelated to these tournaments, but still tournament related. Would anyone be interested in hosting/playing in an MotK PoFV Tourney? Maybe one round a week or something, to make it easier to match up peoples' schedules. I would host it myself, but I'm awful at organizing that kind of stuff...
If you pull this off I'm in.
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Unrelated to these tournaments, but still tournament related. Would anyone be interested in hosting/playing in an MotK PoFV Tourney? Maybe one round a week or something, to make it easier to match up peoples' schedules. I would host it myself, but I'm awful at organizing that kind of stuff...
I would definitely join.
How can I temporarily disable my up/down keys?
Pull out the up and down key from the keyboard like i did :V
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Unrelated to these tournaments, but still tournament related. Would anyone be interested in hosting/playing in an MotK PoFV Tourney? Maybe one round a week or something, to make it easier to match up peoples' schedules. I would host it myself, but I'm awful at organizing that kind of stuff...
This would definitely be cool to see running. I'm unfamilar with PoFV netplay so I don't know how it'd be organized, but if someone's willing to provide a template for it I'd happily keep it maintained.
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This would definitely be cool to see running. I'm unfamilar with PoFV netplay so I don't know how it'd be organized, but if someone's willing to provide a template for it I'd happily keep it maintained.
Well, considering PoFV's netplay is like unassisted IaMP/SWR (Direct-connection) we'd have to use adonis. I guess how we'd organize this, we'd have a topic specifically for the tournament where entrants can place their IP addresses and we'd have the matches at scheduled times.
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I guess how we'd organize this, we'd have a topic specifically for the tournament where entrants can place their IP addresses and we'd have the matches at scheduled times.
Please not this. Make two people have to play by a given date/time and let them find eachother. Probably something like best 3 out of 5, or something similar. Also, some people have dynamic IP adresses so posting IPs is useless.
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I wonder why I can't do Kogasa properly >_>
In other news, <3 SanaeB's bomb. If you can't cap the card, just farm the everloving graze with her bomb :D
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And that's it for this week. Nice stuff, as usual.
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Of course I looked into Dodgeball's replay to see what kind of shenanigans he pulled off on Stage 1 (the rest is just blue UFO shits, right?)
And that's how you do it.
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I would definitely join.
hi sup (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9619.0.html)
I meant to do a decent (not tired/drunk) no-vert marisa beastly eosd but that didn't really work out this week. Instead I had another round of let's-find-amidst-this-sea-of-carpteing-that-little-metal-thing-that-holds-down-the-spacebar after (yet again again) slamming down my keyboard in disgust. I made it to boss Sakuya on normal for a first no-vert for whatever that's worth. Eighth place, it seems.
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I wonder what the next challenges will be...
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Special: hrtp no-horizontal.
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I'd rather do Pacifist no Timeout
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Touche.
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Today's tourney will be delayed by an hour or two, due to exams. :V
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I've got exams on today too.. Still plan on taking part in this tourney, though.
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Bombed math, and I have to finish paper tonight, and I have one more, but I think I should be able to do it this week.
Good luck everyone. :V
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Mechanics exam clear, and week 10's up. You guys will find a nice (?) surprise for Special this time around. :D
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Haha MoF extra graze with ReimuC? Guess I'll have to unlock it with her first :derp:
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This week's Special Challenge sounds intriguing, but for some reason my fucking computer refuses to let me create a backup for MoF. >:(
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Don't worry, I double-checked myself and it's entirely safe to use with no backup, it just creates a separate .exe to run. Also, score.dat for anyone who needs it:
http://www.mediafire.com/?3p8ok9mk1qza4z3
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I would make a comment about Netherworld Team but i'll just skip that and say that the MoF challenge sounds pretty interesting. :)
Dunno when i'll be making a run as I got some exams as well but I suppose I can sneak in a few attempts.
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I would make a comment about Netherworld Team but i'll just skip that and say that the MoF challenge sounds pretty interesting. :)
Dunno when i'll be making a run as I got some exams as well but I suppose I can sneak in a few attempts.
Whats so bad about netherworld team, other than yuyu's shots being too weak and youmu p much being ReimuC in SA?
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yuyu's shots being too weak
That's part of it. The rest being Youmu... I don't like shot types that does anything more that fire straight ahead. A spread shot is fine but anything that you have to manually aim... just no. Its a game where so many popcorn enemies come in from all directions. Makes things difficult in a really annoying way. That is of course a really opinionated thing but they can't outclass Border Team and I don't think they can top Scarlet Team either. They may be a match for Magic Team but that's not really an accomplishment.
Howver, I might try out some Extra stage scoring.
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But that's the thing though, if you try to deconstruct them like this, they've all got their foibles. That's balance for you I guess.
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The MoF challenge looks fantastic, I've always dreamt to see max-graze attempts in this game. =)
But are we allowed to glitch Suwako's first card ? I always do that, it's similar to a Safrspot, but maybe it's forbidden in a contest ?
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I'm pretty sure it's allowed. ;)
edit: confirmed with Sapz.
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Great, thanks. =)
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But that's the thing though, if you try to deconstruct them like this, they've all got their foibles. That's balance for you I guess.
The Border Team doesn't really have any considerable shortcomings.
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The Border Team doesn't really have any considerable shortcomings.
They're slow as hell, for one thing.
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They're slow as hell, for one thing.
Slower than other teams, but it's not like their speed makes that much of a difference (at least from a survival perspective), especially since both sides of the Border Team have homing shots of some kind.
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Slower than other teams, but it's not like their speed makes that much of a difference (at least from a survival perspective), especially since both sides of the Border Team have homing shots of some kind.
Yeah, thats rather true.
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Slower than other teams, but it's not like their speed makes that much of a difference (at least from a survival perspective), especially since both sides of the Border Team have homing shots of some kind.
Not to mention Yukari's damage is fairly strong despite the fact that she's a homing shot type, being only a wee bit weaker than Alice and Remilia, and outdamaging most of the others under practical conditions. And she has a strong bomb to go with it.
Reimu's also got the strongest bomb in the game as well, IIRC.
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Reimu's also got the strongest bomb in the game as well, IIRC.
Reimu's got the strongest ANYTHING in any game. I think that's what Zengeku is really trying to get at.
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There is only one game in which I would use another character instead of Reimu. That would be UFO in which SanaeB is all kinds of awesome. I'm probably by default a biased Reimu player but whenever a new game comes out I make sure to sample all the shottypes it has, finds out which are the best and stick with that.
To be fair though, there is a few situations in IN where the Border Team falls short of other teams. The first half of Stage 3 and the beginning of Stage 6. Its still nothing that can't be memorized with the border team though and the rest of the game gets torn apart.
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Personally, I like SakuyaB and MarisaA more than ReimuB, if only because they're faster in PCB.
I also prefer Youmu solo to Border Team (!!), since she's got the strongest shot in the game bar Malice cannoning things.
I will say that Reimu's got the good shot monopoly in SA. Marisa's either weak (MarisaB and MarisaC) or impractical (MarisaA and MarisaB). She's not bad in UFO, although SanaeB's bomb and spread help way more than ReimuA's severe advantage in firepower at all ranges. For me, Sanae's spread and bomb are still better for me in the TD demo, but I'm rambling.
Netherworld Team's got some issues. Most of them stemming from Yuyuko not being able to shift the phantom gauge as fast as Youmu solo, IMO.
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Not to mention Yukari's damage is fairly strong despite the fact that she's a homing shot type, being only a wee bit weaker than Alice and Remilia
You mean Marisa? It's pretty hard to be weaker than Alice, and Remilia's probably the strongest shot in the game. In most cases anyway. Malice beats her if you can keep it up without ramming into bullets and Youmu/Yuyuko are technically stronger even if they'll never show it outside of maybe the Asteroid Belt pseudo-safespot)
Personally, I like SakuyaB and MarisaA more than ReimuB, if only because they're faster in PCB.
I also prefer Youmu solo to Border Team (!!), since she's got the strongest shot in the game bar Malice cannoning things.
I will say that Reimu's got the good shot monopoly in SA. Marisa's either weak (MarisaB and MarisaC) or impractical (MarisaA and MarisaB). She's not bad in UFO, although SanaeB's bomb and spread help way more than ReimuA's severe advantage in firepower at all ranges. For me, Sanae's spread and bomb are still better for me in the TD demo, but I'm rambling.
Netherworld Team's got some issues. Most of them stemming from Yuyuko not being able to shift the phantom gauge as fast as Youmu solo, IMO.
Mm, yeah. Going SoEW upwards, skipping the odd-number games, my favorite shots are probably ReimuB (would play A if there was a focus button), Yumemi, MarisaA, Mima, MarisaB, SakuyaB, Border Team (Nether and Yukari Solo close behind, solo Youmu/Marisa are okay too but they have shit range), Marisa/Shikieki (about equal), ReimuB, ReimuA, MarisaA, Marisa. If we toss in IaMP, then Suika for that (I don't care about the other fighters).
Basically, I like playing fast characters, but will opt for someone else if they have some sort of overwhelming advantage. MarisaA and Mima are awesome in LLS/MS. I use MarisaB over A in EoSD because she has wider range and doesn't lose the Marisa speed like ReimuB would. SakuyaB in PCB because Marisa only has 2 bombs (and awful range) and ReimuB is slow as shit. Easier grazing, less cherry punishment, and 4 bombs per life is pretty awesome too. I opt for border team over faster characters because Yukari is awesome (Yukari Solo is just as awesome, and Youmu is really hard to push out of Human by killing too many familiars [I prefer Nether over Youmu Solo because of the spread shot+being able to switch out of Human is useful for bullet canceling with the familiars]). ReimuB over Marisa in MoF because only MarisaC is really good and I'm garbage with her [plus comfortable movement speed with Reimu for once!). ReimuA in SA because Marisa sucks once again (and Reimu doesn't once again!). MarisaA in UFO because of piercing+high damage lasers (Reimu back to being slow as shit, SanaeB is nice though). Marisa in TD because everyone's pretty balanced/easy to use aside from awkward Youmu, and Marisa's speedy.
I guess I have a few weird preferences there (UFO, IN, EoSD), but they work fairly well for me, and that's what's important right? =p
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You mean Marisa? It's pretty hard to be weaker than Alice, and Remilia's probably the strongest shot in the game. In most cases anyway. Malice beats her if you can keep it up without ramming into bullets and Youmu/Yuyuko are technically stronger even if they'll never show it outside of maybe the Asteroid Belt pseudo-safespot)
I guess I have a few weird preferences there (UFO, IN, EoSD), but they work fairly well for me, and that's what's important right? =p
Herp, yes I mean Marisa. To be fair, Alice wouldn't have b/u]een so bad if her bomb and shot did more damage.
Hell, if her bomb wasn't absolute shit, or if Yukari wasn't essentially hands down the best shot-type for every practical purpose outside of scoring.
With no Malice Cannon, Youmu is the strongest, if you can stay under the boss, and obvious Yuyu shotgun.
And if I'm not mistaken, MarisaB in EoSD is essentially the best shot type.
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And if I'm not mistaken, MarisaB in EoSD is essentially the best shot type.
Possibly, though she doesn't get much love. ReimuB is a bit stronger (and most people seem to prefer Reimu speed), MarisaA is way stronger, but with less horizontal range. MarisaA is probably the best, but MarisaB is slightly easier to use since you're still doing some damage even if you're not directly under a boss.
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EoSD MarisaB's horizontal range isn't that much wider than MarisaA's from what I remember. As someone who used to main MarisaA, I can say that literally the only flaw in that shottype is that she's a bit too fast for reliable micrododging. Everything else about her is great though, a strong shot with a long-lasting bomb (and when activated on top of bosses, is very strong itself). ReimuB trades bomb length for a better movement speed (a suitable trade-off if you ask me), and is still acceptably strong from long-distance. ReimuA... I never bothered with her, but I hear she's weak as hell.
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EoSD... the good ol' days where shottypes were all useful. :V
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Part of me is screaming "Fuck this stage!! I never want to see it again!!" and part of me is screaming "Fuck me, I can't settle with under 1.4B!!"
Back to grinding IN extra... I keep clipdeathing everything in sight T_T
EDIT: *get 1.27* AGSDJASDJ FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF-
EDIT 1.48 =3
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Had a fairly good run going on, only to die by flying into Marisa DURING THE PRE-FIGHT DIALOGUE.
*Give up and retry?*
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> Imperishable Night
> Netherworld Team
> the one week I have a fuckload of work
I will haunt you in your sleep. Seriously. You Will Die. :V
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Easy mode's really pissing me off. Trying really hard to get a good score, but there's always a few little screw-ups that ruin it. In today's run, I bomb a stage 4 fairy (the ones with the rapid-spinning familiars) and then fail Marisa's first card during the buzz. Milky Way indeed.
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I hate knowing Kaguya's Last Spells in concept but never being able to execute them more than anything. They'd make up for my really really sloppy plays for the most part.
By the way, outside of a few spots (Wriggle, Marisa and certain Keine, Kaguya and Eirin cards), is it better just to plow through as Youmu or grazefarm? on easymodo.
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I hate knowing Kaguya's Last Spells in concept but never being able to execute them more than anything. They'd make up for my really really sloppy plays for the most part.
By the way, outside of a few spots (Wriggle, Marisa and certain Keine, Kaguya and Eirin cards), is it better just to plow through as Youmu or grazefarm? on easymodo.
I'm pretty sure the extra points you get just from the 6B point items should more than offset the difference of even a clear on 6A. I no-focused pretty much every spell/nonspell simply because it's easier than paying attention to the meter on bosses and the payoff difference isn't that significant unless you're against a serious score-runner. I focus Stardust Reverie and sometimes Reisen's first/last cards to make sure I can cap them, and her last nonspell if I remember to switch my meter over to phantom. Not sure if Eirin's nonspell is worth it, but it very well might be, I should probably be doing that... The only cards I think would be worth worth grazing for Nether are Keine midboss and her last two boss cards, Wriggle's last card, and maybe some Mystia stuff (not sure if people do it on easy). None of Marisa's stuff is really worth grazing as far as I can tell, though Reimu has a few good cards. Aside from Hourai Jewel and Kaguya's first, second, and fourth timeouts, you can pretty much ignore any stage 6 spells since the spellcard bonus from finishing it quickly with Youmu is probably more significant than any small amount of extra time you'd get from going for almost-timeouts on those cards with Yuyu. Optimally you would no focus constant fire the third and fifth timeouts, but I usually mostly focus through those just to make sure I cap them.
Also, another tip (probably obvious) is to preserve familiars if possible. Always focus-kill stage fairies with familiars and switch back to Youmu to push yourself back to the human side before you collect the point items. For bosses, only shoot them if they're practically impossible to kill (eg. Milky Way, Buddha's Stone Bowl) or if they respawn (Wriggle familiars, Marisa midboss familiars, etc), in which case you can just kill them as much as you like until the boss starts buzzing and then finish off the phase once more come out (Marisa spawns them slowly, so you may want to wait for the last 2-3 seconds to finish just to be sure).
Aside from my basic "get a pretty decent score" tips, you might want to check out some easy mode replays on Royalflare for more graze spots and just use whichever ones you think you can pull off consistently enough.
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Hopefully we'll actually get some PC98 next week. I'm wanting that to give me an excuse to finally 1cc those Lunatics.
Also,
MoF
MarisaC
No Vert
would be an awesome special challenge.
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Week 11's up! Hope you enjoy the Special challenge this week. >:D Week 10 will be updated later.
Also, thanks for the suggestions, even if they're not picked - they might get picked later and they're very helpful when you're running out of ideas. :V
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Some PC98 goodness might help give some variety to the challenges. Speaking of which, the Special Challenge is exceptionally devilish this week.
But it's UFO. Delicious, delicious UFO.
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Evil challenge is evil, but that won't stop me from trying :D
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mmm unfocus marisa b
brb foaming at the mouth
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This further builds up my understanding that Sapz is spending every weekend in his life trying to figure out the most ingenious ways to ruin my life. :]
SA scoring and UFO with MarisaB. You're getting good at this. So instead of just coming in here and complaining about shottypes i've decided to actually make a run.
What can I say about it? Had a pretty good run until the Stage 4 boss. Then i started dying to things. Things went even worse when I start running into bullets in Stage 5 and stands still waiting for the bullets to hit me on several occasions across the run. I suppose Normal mode has some threats if you don't focus.
And of course my scoring is as pitiful as ever but its UFO scoring so who cares? I survived and that's good enough. Now I expect Naut to pull off a 1cc, a Lunatic one naturally. I also attempted extra but was raped by red UFO's through crashing into the very same UFO three times. I don't think capping it would be hard to do with focus but wihout it, ouch.
EDIT: Lol, just realized that you were to use ReimuC in SA. I somehow read it as MarisaC. I might actually attempt a run. Breaking a billion will suffice. I don't wanna suicide too much. :V
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I try. :3
...Actually, these are the kind of challenges that happen when I wake up 15 minutes before it's time to set the challenge and haven't settled on an idea yet. :V
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Nah that's okay. I'm sure ZUN designs the last bunch of shot types the same way. 15 minutes before going to the Comiket. :V
As for UFO Extra, haven't had any sucess. Marisa keeps flying into stuff. I don't know how i'm going to make it through Grudge Bow and Nightmare. The bombs lasts for never and the speed, ouch! I should go do some scoring in SA instead.
I'll wait till' after my chemistry exams though. That comes first.
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I'm pretty rusty at SA, so I definitely won't be 1ccing Lunatic again this week.
But I might submit some Normal/Hard scores if I get a good run.
Just had a suck Normal run where I derp died 4 or 5 times. Outside of a suicide for power at the very beginning of the game where it won't hurt the scoring for Normal/Hard, I'm hoping for no deaths.
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I really liked this weeks challenges, even if I'm lazy and feel done with it now. Great job to everyone who submitted, I hope more are on the way!
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Again a really fun Special. I like it when I have to fear for my life throughout the run. If I expect my run to end somewhere around stage 3 (which is quite realistic for Lunatic, some attacks seem nearly undodgeable with UF Marisa), are there any more survival-efficient ways to collect UFO's than simply going for red all the way?
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Okay, so three things have happened.
#1 - Sapz has forgotten to rank the submissions by score.
#2 - Naut failed at living up to my expectations. :V - But he got pretty far which is kinda cool and a little scary at the same time.
#3 - I forgot to do a score run of SA Lunatic, i'm sorry. :(
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I'm doing it I'm doing it chill out :V
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We're likely to start a few hours late this week. Apologies for the delay, I've gotta go out around that time. :derp:
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PC-98 test run this week! Gogogo.
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Mystic Square? AND Mima?! <3
...I just hope i have time to play this week...
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...Shinki took out 3 of my lives during her curvy balls attack ;_;
Lost my last one right when Devil's Recitation was ending =(
That's what I get for entering Shinki blind :V
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I'll try my best to get a submission this time. Hopefully people will pick up on the PC98 selection
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Finally a reason to 1cc that game. Nice. Lets' see if I get it done. Wasn't it basically that score system I always dreamt off?
And I might also do some of that PCB stuff. It is indeed PCB but you picked one of the bosses that doesn't suck and doesn't have a needlessly prolonged static marathon to go through.
Nice selection Sapz. I thought you hated me. :V
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Don't worry, I'll think up something more painful for next time. :V
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Shinki's Devil's Recitation clipped me. Those purple orbs have smaller hitboxes than I thought. I just went too close at the end. Hopefully, this will force me to 1cc this game on normal for a change. :V
EDIT: Also, how do you take snapshots with Next? I see Sc. Cap on the F12 menu, but I can't get to it because they made it too confusing for me.
Another EDIT: Nevermind, I figured it out. :derp:
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I tried MS Lunatic and got to Shinki. The attack that looks like Utsuho's Peta Flare. (somewhat)
I might have actually beaten the game just like that if I didn't decide dying against Yumeko 4 times was a good idea. I shall use more bombs next time.
I also need to figure out just how much you need to stall the Stage 5 midboss to avoid getting raped in the fluff after her. I thought to myself, well people said you needed to stall midboss Sakuya to avoid BS in EoSD as well so I wouldn't need to do it in MS either!
The difference is just that post-midboss Sakuya is a slowpaced mess of bullets where hardly anything will hit you if you just stay put. In MS, a lot of stuff will happen. I'm not calling it BS or anything but certainly stuff that is way too risky for me to attempt in the middle of a run.
I'm taking a break from MS now to try myself a bit of that PCB Stage 5.
EDIT: Is there anyone who has a score.dat file for PCB with SakuyaB's Lunatic stages unlocked that I can borrow?. (Or at least just up to Stage 5)
My own file only has Lunatic stages for ReimuA, B and SakuyaA.
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EDIT: Is there anyone who has a score.dat file for PCB with SakuyaB's Lunatic stages unlocked that I can borrow?. (Or at least just up to Stage 5)
My own file only has Lunatic stages for ReimuA, B and SakuyaA.
http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6130.msg340773.html#msg340773
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Oh sweet, thanks.
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So I put MS on ice for now since it refuses to cooperate with me. Instead I played some PCB. Once.
Youmu is still much more bark than bite so I managed to pretty much perfect her (bombed on 2nd non-spell.) and I got 203M out of her. I haven't played much of Sakuya so I know next to nothing about her. It seems she isn't punished as heavily as the others for bombing. Which you might benefit from in terms of getting quick borders without sacrificing your item point value.
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I forgot how bad I was at PC98. Screw the score. All that's doing is getting me killed.
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Haha I can capture either Approaching Disillusion or Seven Sins, but never both in one run
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I forgot how bad I was at PC98. Screw the score. All that's doing is getting me killed.
I know the feeling, I keep screwing up my graze farming by colliding with bullets. Very annoying. Once again I doubt I'll get a submission in this week, since I can't feel right about submitting scores I'm unsatisfied with. For that matter, I can't feel right about not restarting over a stage 3 death, which means I haven't even finished a run yet this week.
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I keep completely failing even on Hard mode. It was so long since I played Mystic Square that I pretty much forgot everything. And I HATE that stage 2 boss.
I may do a Normal run just to be able to submit something(assuming I even get a worthy run), but Hard and Lunatic just aren't likely happening this week. Hard could happen, but I doubt it considering I got completely destroyed by stage 4, Yuki and Mai, Yumeko, and Shinki.
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suggestions:
- catch enough point items at the first stage to get to Dream Gauge Max after the midboss (works both on Normal and Lunatic), at a high place (they'll boost the Dream Gauge noticeably, though they seem to lower a bit if your shot power isn't high enough -- if you have the two side familiars, it's enough)
- catch as many point items you can, mind Mima's speed (so you can stray away from a point item that's falling, shoot things, generate more point items and have enough time/distance to get in time to catch that falling point item from before)
- ideally, you should have max shot power and max point gain from the shot power items, so if you bomb but doesn't die, you can refill the Dream Gauge more easily than trying to collect point items at the top of the screen (unless when done on boss fights after their patterns)
- play on Fullscreen mode, revert to windowed mode if you need to take a screenshot (especially because if you try to Alt+PrtScr while using fullscreen, you'll get a blank image when you paste it.) by using Alt+Enter (then use Alt+Tab if clicking on other things such as the Start Menu somehow stop working)
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Okay. After some playing of the PCB Stage 5 i've been able to get as much as 206M. I won't submit that, i didn't even save the replay and the only difference is those 3M and the first replay had some better dodging too.
This most recent run had a most ugly failure at the final spellcard where I misjudge my characters speed and the bullets speed and literally fly straight into a bullet in a situation where there was a million other things I could've done to avoid those bullets.
I believe I've hit the limit from what I can squeeze out the stage without exploitation of grazing and boss AI.
Twas' a fun week though.
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I couldn't get any good runs. I suck.
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I like this idea very much. I looked at the previous 2 tournaments of this and had a shot and a laugh (was a bit too late to submit tho, just found these forums). It's kinda fun when there are unique challenges awaiting my time; I was hoping to work on practising with the more awkward characters in game.
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I couldn't get any good runs. I suck.
People who suck more have a better attitude than you, jerk
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I didn't mean to come off like that. I was only meaning that toward myself.
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The Special Challenge this week.
Oh yeah. :V
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I looked at this week's special and was quite impressed too. Stage 4 still annoys me a little.
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LLS :*
You're awesome Sapz :V
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Oh man, I'm not used to Stage 4 without bombing :V I'll have to practice on this
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I like how Funens score is only about 150M off my high score... with bombs. :V
EDIT:
Okay. Submitted my own suck ass run. Just to have something up. I never made it to Orin. Died a lot of unforgivable spots like anywhere in Stage 3 and too much at Stage 4.
Three deaths at Stage 3. THREE!!! I haven't practiced that stage at all. ZUN's brilliant idea of giving you a near-infinite supply of bombs made short process of my interest in learning the bloody thing especially considering that its not at all a fun stage. It just has awesome music and a really easy boss... who also managed to kill me once to add to my misery. That is really the worst of it all. A death on Yuugi is about the same as a death on Rumia to me. Its something that just doesn't fucking happen.
Stage 4... I can't complain about dying there. I died to some legitimately challenging things mostly. DBDB being one of them. However, dying to that 3rd non-spell is fucking infuriating since its not at all hard to read. You know where to move several years before the bullets even spawn. Its just so damn pixel perfect that it makes it easy to get clipped.
Oh well. I guess if I can just avoid dying three times to Stage 3 I'll be able to tear through Orin and beat up Utsuho afterwards and get a 1cc. I'll try once more now.
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This was going to go with the submission, but why not post here for once.
Special thanks to Nereid for telling me to do this challenge (http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=14850) or I'd be sitting away in my comfort zone again. I wanted to safespot supergraze Yuugi's second noncard but didn't put in the effort to find a way past the initial blue laser wave. First death near the beginning of stage three for no good reason at all, but pressed on to experience the rest of the game in a full run. Second death in the second half of the same stage...I should have practiced that. Some more deaths along the way, some to the memo stuff which was expected considering the amount of planning going into it. What really broke my heart was moving over to the side, right into a bullet during Satori's opener. I couldn't imagine why I did that. More deaths to the first two recollection spells which is no surprise because I already have 0/16 histories on them. Left the stage with one spare life. Incidentally, endstage Orin was a perfect battle (safespots included like I always do) and stage six had no misses or bombs as well, but I did gap like crazy during the streaming section which I haven't done in ages (the gapping). I didn't care, my heart was racing and I had to take a breather after clearing Peta Flare. Finished with four spare lives. Ideally, I would have liked to prevent the two simple deaths in stage three and the one to Satori's opener (don't care if I die to the green amulet section which I did), but I have plenty of blessings to count.
So thank you again Nereid, it was a great experience. And I'll chide you a little for really stressing me out, but it makes victory all the better. And thanks to T and dot_asp. A little less afraid of playing this difficulty now.
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I know the feeling Heartbeam. Despite all the work I've put into scoring SA Lunatic, I actually haven't gone and 1cc'd that mode a whole lot of times. I was a bit nervous during my submission as well, the main reason I didn't try to milk stuff more. I'm sure there's a few extra things you can do to bump your score up.
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Week 14 Special Challenge, Extra (http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=15023)
Okay so, 1B was the ideal but I didn't know what to expect out of Ran under these conditions, survival-wise. Really, really simple mistake in the stage by moving out before the final bullets from the fairy firing the two-way shot were clear (or I wasn't close enough to shoot it down early, that too), and that ruined the final set of fairies dropping items. After that the border break was messed up because overcompensating for lagging lasers. And to fix that you would stop shooting during the slight lull before the tiny pellet section and figure out when to start shooting. So the border goes up during the random spam and I suck up items that way, but the original intent was to die instead and it'll be that much easier to affix the next border.
No restarting because I expect something terrible out of Ran, but instead I never die until the final spell. One border break to the final noncard because of greediness and moving up to graze both streams which I'd never attempt in the past, even with Reimu's unfocused speed. Anyway, I die early on in the spell trying to move diagonally between the initial pellet wave. Then the timeout phase comes. Die two more times. Then the spell times out. Good thing though because it would be a damn shame if I only messed up that one part in the stage and lost tens of thousands of CherryMax and missed the 800 extend. All is right with the world. Not trying again because I expended most of my beginner's luck against Charming Siege and the survival spell. And that noncard following Charming Siege. And maybe Unilateral Contact for having really easy waves.
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Guys, on the special challenge, please give more detail on what part of the stage you gameovered on for rankings. D:
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There was no competition in the Special hard modes, which is quite a shame. Did nobody even try, or were they too ashamed of early stage gameovers to publish their runs (or just too much of an perfectionist?)?
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There was no competition in the Special hard modes, which is quite a shame. Did nobody even try, or were they too ashamed of early stage gameovers to publish their runs (or just too much of an perfectionist?)?
Didn't even try because there are too many difficulties and the games last too long to do everything. What i did:1 replay on all difficulties on eosd. Then i started practicing extraSilent Selene grazing, but never got past L?vatein (also tried to graze, should have actually practiced it lol).
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I got a PCB hard run ending on Stage 6 fairy spam. It's a pretty embarrassing run. Died 6 times on Prismriver sisters lol
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So earlier I said Lunatic Stage 2 for the special challenge was clearable. It's going to be a lot more difficult than I thought, though, since I just learned that Parsee's second nonspell doesn't die in 2 bombs.
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Idea for future challenges:
2 challenges and either 1 difficulty from easy,normal,hard,lunatic + extra or 1 difficulty out of all 5 difficulties.
Opinions?
What do other people think about this?
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well the fun of the challenges is that you can make them in more than one difficulty...
a better idea would be making specific spell challenges with silly conditions (like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbfFfKAYFuQ) or this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1OKvX8hmQQ) )
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PARSEE Y U DO THIS
Also, apparently Yamame's last card is *not* static, even though it appeared to be.
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Also, apparently Yamame's last card is *not* static, even though it appeared to be.
Yeah, only the slow bullets in each wave are static.
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Have there been any GFW challenges (other than the score without ice)?
If not, I think there should be.
Also more special challenges on the ultra patches would be fun.
I can't even get past normal stage 1 any more on the special challenge, I must really suck. Somehow I got through it first try though.
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I would have submitted something for Scoring Lunatic but Marisa doesn't like me and I'm tired. I should have given it a try earlier. oh well
I think maybe I'll start participating in these tournaments some more again.
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Oh for gods sake I'm glad I ragequit all my Scoring attempts after early deaths and didn't submit a score. I was playing ReimuB :V
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I'm really happy about my normal special submission this week. Can we get another SA special sometime later? I'd really like to see a no leftward movement with ReimuA. Use gapping to move around the screen, really hard, but not as hard as this weeks challenge.
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I'd be more interested in a no vertical SA challenge, actually. I've tried it before, and Okuu makes it ridiculous. Ridiculously awesome, that is.
Have you tried the no leftward movement thing? Was it any fun? It sounds pretty annoying actually.
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I'd be more interested in a no vertical SA challenge, actually. I've tried it before, and Okuu makes it ridiculous. Ridiculously awesome, that is.
Have you tried the no leftward movement thing? Was it any fun? It sounds pretty annoying actually.
It's fun and annoying, I've tried all stages on Normal and some others, the strategy part is really fun, like in Nest of Stinging Insects where you have to time your movements to avoid the dense lasers at the edge of the screen and spleen eater which doesn't quite get easy unlike in the no vert challenge. Also Parsee on Lunatic is awesome no leftward, but Okuu felt impossible for me on Normal but with some planning it should probably be possible to 1cc.
The annoying part comes when you are positioned at the center of the screen and the boss moves to the left, forcing you have to move to the right and gap over while dodging whatever bullets are scattered across the screen. And it keeps happening!
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I guess the legendary 4x TOUHOU TOURNAMENT COMBO will have to try again some other time.
Anyway, experiment this week - given how the competition is so spread out most of the time and many difficulties are relatively ignored, we're having only one difficulty per challenge this week. Your thoughts after the week (or now I guess!) would be appreciated. :V
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I guess the legendary 4x TOUHOU TOURNAMENT COMBO will have to try again some other time.
>Sapz: Attempt the legendary 4x TOUHOU TOURNAMENT COMBO
You attempt to and you fail. It's simply too awesome and legendary for mere mortals to succesfully complete.
I've been reading too much Homestuck lately :V
One difficulty per challenge, eh?
I'll give the special challenge a go I guess, it's an excuse to try to take down that extra without bombing. I'll probably not make it past Froggy, if I even get that far, but we shall see.
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One difficulty per challenge? That would... have to be experimented with a little, because if it's what I'm thinking it is, it could turn down potential competitors, considering one week's difficulty would be above what they're used to. Granted, that last statement alone can also be a counterargument, considering people ideally should play above what they generally do if they want to get better, the idea doesn't exactly lend itself to competition well.
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...the idea doesn't exactly lend itself to competition well.
I have to disagree with that. With multiple difficulties, you will usually see people just playing their normally preferred one, since one week is a really short time to put effort into four different modes in two categories. Since there isn't any way to compare scores between difficulties, you will just end up with a bunch of scattered scores. When picking a single common difficulty, you have everyone competing in the same category so there will be a lot more competition.
Of course, I'm still probably not participating in this so feel free to ignore all this. Just my personal opinion on short competitions like this.
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I like the idea of playing on a fixed difficulty for pretty much the same reasons that Erppo posted right above. I hope it won't deter some people from playing simply because they don't feel ready for Hard mode or something like that. Someone playing easy mode and having trouble with Normal could really benefit from playing Hard mode. He wouldn't get that far but he would almost certainly improve from it.
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One more thing, I don't really like playing for score, so when I see the special challenge is based on score, it kind of feels like an extension of the regular scoring challenge with some random condition applied. I'd much prefer it was "survive" rather than "score", with score being used to break ties (between clears, same spot fails, etc.) only on the special challenge.
If people want the special to be score that's fine, but I feel that if so, there should be 3 challenges: score, survival and restricted score. Of course, this is only realistic if the challenges stay on specific difficulties.
I suppose MoF has the scoring tied to survival the most, but there's no way I can milk the stage for faith with ReimuB, which naturally dissuades me from posting a score I know is pathetic. If it was survival based, I'd submit a clear regardless of score because I'd be proud of my meeting the challenge (no bomb clear), as opposed to "yay, I cleared, that run sucked score-wise, I'm not submitting".
</rant about not enjoying score-running and preferring survival challenges>
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I'd much prefer it was "survive" rather than "score", with score being used to break ties (between clears, same spot fails, etc.) only on the special challenge.
If people want the special to be score that's fine, but I feel that if so, there should be 3 challenges: score, survival and restricted score. Of course, this is only realistic if the challenges stay on specific difficulties.
I actually like this idea, since I'm still learning new things. Having a survival based challenge where you would get points on clears, ending lives and bombs would be nice. More players would be able to submit IMO since you won't have to worry about killing yourself to get a better score. Plus players still trying to get their first 1cc in the game could watch them and see how Pros tackle the challenges before them. I like finding replays and trying to score with them but now most replays especially SA have the player sacrificing themselves to get a better score. I need those lives and bombs to survive and can't follow what they are doing. A lot of times I am discouraged about posting cause I might only have a 100mil score and everyone else has 800+ mil score.
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I suppose MoF has the scoring tied to survival the most, but there's no way I can milk the stage for faith with ReimuB, which naturally dissuades me from posting a score I know is pathetic.
Aww, don't be like that. Just perform the best you can and post your score even if it is pathetic. Surely you are not the only one who wouldn't be able to score well so even if your score isn't good, you can still compare it to other players similar to yourself.
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Interesting thoughts.
I'm somewhat opposed to the idea of a straight survival 'challenge'. The point of the scoring challenge in the first place was (aside from an excellent chance for competition) to get people interested in scoring in the first place, and create a way of getting people to compete actively with each other. The point of the special challenge, IMO, is to have something out of the ordinary - meaning a restriction, a single stage challenge, or some kind of modification to the game with either scoring or survival being the focus depending on the challenge's nature - people occasionally do challenges like these, but usually it's just one guy, so it's interesting to see actual competition for these strange ways of playing. A survival challenge, I feel, wouldn't really have a benefit like these two - people play for survival all the time outside these threads anyway. :V
Aside from that, pure survival requires the player to do nothing out of the ordinary and take as few risks as they can. There's nothing wrong with play like this if you want to clear a game, of course, but it doesn't make for very exciting or interesting competition - it'd be a case of 'play as tamely as you can manage and don't make errors for half an hour', especially for some of the more experienced players/lower difficulties.
Archin: Don't worry about it - just submit the best you can manage for the time being. :) You can't expect to compete on the same level as the veterans straight off the bat, but give it time and you'll be up there soon enough. Of course, being able to survive in the first place helps a lot with performing advanced techniques, but by the same token a survival-oriented clear is still usually going to have a way higher score than a score-centric game over halfway through the game. As your survival capabilities improve, your scoring capabilities should do likewise.
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In MoF you can get a pretty sweet score just by survival alone, so i fail to see how is that a problem (just NMNB Extra should score 800m and more)
i'll give the challenges a shot later, i have no idea how to score in EoSD so this will be an enriching experience
EDIT:Made an extra run and died three times because i'm dumb :V (two times on the stage and one at red frog)
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I support the change, most of the time some sections were left completely or almost untouched. This format encourages competition a lot better, and winning because you're the only one who can be bothered to try is worse than losing if you ask me :V.
Picking the "best" difficulty for non-Extra challenges might be a problem, perhaps the difficulties for each challenge should be far from each other so it's more likely for everyone to find at least one challenge they're comfortable with?
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Anyway, experiment this week - given how the competition is so spread out most of the time and many difficulties are relatively ignored, we're having only one difficulty per challenge this week. Your thoughts after the week (or now I guess!) would be appreciated. :V
Honestly, I don't think that this will encourage competition from the lesser-skilled players. It gives them even more of a reason to avoid competing, as there's no real chance that they have to win against the more veteran players. I believe that one of the reasons participation has declined over the months is that the Expert players have dominated every difficulty level, instead of keeping the competition to players of their same expertise.
Yes, one could argue that this can help to encourage the player to try harder and break out of their "comfort zone", but consider this: Imagine a lesser-skilled player grinding away all week, trying to 1cc Easy or Normal. They finally manage to complete it, and have obtained a high score worthy enough to take first place. Now, one of the Expert players comes along and effortlessly quadruples their score. All that hard work was for nothing, and the lesser-skilled player is less likely to compete next time.
I think that instead of raising the bar for the lesser-skilled player (still with no chance of winning at all), we should have people declare which difficulty they wish to compete in for the challenge. The difficulty they pick is the one they stay with until the end. Extra is a free-for-all. Yes, the brackets will be smaller, but I think people will actually be more willing to compete if they actually have a chance at winning themselves. Even if it is EASY MODO. Hopefully in time, more people will be encouraged to participate if they know they will be competing against similarly skilled players.
I personally have nothing but respect for the Expert players. You guys show tremendous skill at the game, and I tip my hat to you all. But I think that, across all difficulties, it would be nice to see other players take first place rather than the players that can easily crush Lunatic Mode. Just my thoughts.
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I think that instead of raising the bar for the lesser-skilled player (still with no chance of winning at all), we should have people declare which difficulty they wish to compete in for the challenge. The difficulty they pick is the one they stay with until the end. Extra is a free-for-all. Yes, the brackets will be smaller, but I think people will actually be more willing to compete if they actually have a chance at winning themselves. Even if it is EASY MODO. Hopefully in time, more people will be encouraged to participate if they know they will be competing against similarly skilled players.
I propose a compromise: Immortal tier (Either Hard or Lunatic, depends on the week) and Mortal tier (Easy or Normal, same thing), otherwise go with your idea that you must stick to one tier only. If four difficulty modes means that some of them are ignored (Hard modes rarely had many submissions, if you must stick to one they'd have none since it's too hard for newbies and not lunatic enough for lunatics) and a single one is discouraging for newbies, how about two?
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All that hard work was for nothing, and the lesser-skilled player is less likely to compete next time.
Its not like its wasted effort. Even if they don't win, even if they never had a chance to win, they will still have gotten something out of it. Personal satisfaction from performing things they couldn't before, beating old records perhabs and also benefitting from the higher difficulty. It doesn't have to be all about winning. Doing your best to achieve that is fine of course but even if you can't, simply doing your best and raise as high a score as you possibly can is more than sufficient. There is still plenty of room for competion with people of equal skill levels.
Imagine if you were to submit a score for Extra this week with 400M points and then some other person posts one with 425, then you could still compete with him even if you couldn't match up to the 700M+ NMNB players.
Also, it can often be motivational to see just how much better you can become at the game and you can attempt to see how close to the top score you can get.
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I like having these scoring challenges. I'm not great in scoring, but I participate in them to improve myself into doing something other than sit at the bottom and avoid bullets entirely instead of streaming them to get as much graze as possible. Also, players can learn by watching the replays submitted.
My first no-focus run came from one of these challenges. Never knew how much fun it was XD
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I think that instead of raising the bar for the lesser-skilled player (still with no chance of winning at all), we should have people declare which difficulty they wish to compete in for the challenge. The difficulty they pick is the one they stay with until the end.
I do believe Heartbeam mentioned in another thread (Can't remember what it was.) that other forums will place players in the highest difficulty the player submits. This would separate veterans from the lesser players. Now if someone put up a score for a Lunatic and their Hard score was better, you could decide to place them in Hard since they had a higher score. Only problem it would make it difficult for the person controlling the tournament to sift through pages of submissions to figure out their best score.
Archin: Don't worry about it - just submit the best you can manage for the time being. :) You can't expect to compete on the same level as the veterans straight off the bat, but give it time and you'll be up there soon enough. Of course, being able to survive in the first place helps a lot with performing advanced techniques, but by the same token a survival-oriented clear is still usually going to have a way higher score than a score-centric game over halfway through the game. As your survival capabilities improve, your scoring capabilities should do likewise.
I know. I just keep my scores to myself and keep competing against my own scores until I'm close to the same level.
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Personally, I strongly dislike the idea of having multiple difficulties and only allowing a player to submit for one of them; firstly, it'll create an even worse case of the original problem of some difficulties getting neglected, and secondly I find the idea of splitting people purely for the sake of giving less skilled players #1 spots would cheapen them immensely. It's a #1 spot for a reason - the guy who gets it is the guy who beats everyone else, and so it's something to work hard for in the week on top of having worked for a long time to gain overall skill, a marker saying 'this guy beat everyone else at this'. I think we'd often get only a very small amount of submissions for the easier difficulties, regardless - even in the old format, many of the lower difficulty scores were made by experienced players, so it's more likely to have the effect of isolating people from the actual competition, IMO.
Two difficulties per challenge is a little more realistic sounding, but it still seems counter to the point of this new approach. As Zengeku pointed out, competition within the rankings even aside from #1 is a lot of fun, guys. There are people of a lot of different levels playing, so you'll find some realistic competition. At any rate, I'd like to see how this week's turns out before deciding on anything.
Despite any criticism I may throw out I really appreciate the input, keep it coming people. :V
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Hard mode ensures I'm not even bothering with that challenge.
That MoF challenge though, maybe I'll perfect Suwako this week.
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Despite any criticism I may throw out I really appreciate the input, keep it coming people. :V
That's fine. It's your tournament, after all. :V I was just voicing my theory as to why participation has declined over time.
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I'm not sure about what I think of reducing the number of categories in the tournament. Maybe I'll formulate an opinion later.
In the meantime, this special challenge looks excellent. I'm going to aim for 900M, although that might be a little optimistic. Not really sure at this point.
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Despite any criticism I may throw out I really appreciate the input, keep it coming people. :V
Not trying to change the way things are, just giving Opinions and Ideas. The way things are now is fine, its giving me a reason to keep playing and I have improved from this as well. If I get tired of the game I'm trying for a 1cc I can always try what the tournament is doing.
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Posted my score in MoF Extra. That was a really damn good run for me. No miss, no bombs and a way higher score than my initial perfect run. I still don't have a clue about how to do the first survival card but thankfully my improvisation was enough to get me a capture. This can of course be improved since there were quite some blunders on the stage portion as well as me never really getting the timing down on the 2nd midboss card to do it strictly vertical.
As for EoSD, I'll just skip that one since I can't play it without lag (serious lag issues at that - for some reason. I blame bad programming since the rest of the series works just fine with only TD providing a few dips in framerate at times). I wouldn't have minded attempting a bit of scoring in it since its just Hard mode though.
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posting my opinion on the general decreasing interest in participation..
regarding the placement:
while it may be discouraging and/or intimidating for one to have your score beaten by a lot of people, think of it as an opportunity to test, measure your current skill level, against yourself. Either try to find where your current "wall" is, or try to overcome your current limitations to see where your current abilities can take you to, if you use them to your current best potential... it's up to you.
Then, when you look back to the challenge, later, after having played more shmups and had acquired more experience and have more abilities to transfer to the game, watch how you've progressed! Don't push yourself for improvements too hard, though, progress rhythm isn't something that's entirely controllable. Play against yourself, primarily.
Remember: the people who can score high don't laugh at those who can't; they've learned to respect the effort and perseverance of other players, like themselves. (personally, shmups forum's annual STG Tournaments are a rare opportunity for me to appreciate a lot of people trying to do their best, and that's a very.. beautiful thing to behold and take part of)
regarding scoreplay:
for people who're not used to playing for score, doing so may sound as loading yourself with additional work, making survival more difficult. For some, it may also feel more restricting (for example, if you trade bombs or even lives for a better score, or have to risk yourself more). For said people, when looking at higher scores on the highscore tables, they may feel demotivated.
My words, regarding this feeling, is: don't treat the bi-weekly tournaments as your last, or only chance to try to test yourself or compete against others. The games weren't made to be enjoyed specifically for bi-weekly tournaments such as these, so you still have a lot of opportunities to revisit said games, as long as you like them, in your own pace. Maybe you'll even get to appreciate the game more, at a point where memorization becomes less of a problem, and thus you'll be motivated again :D
regarding the bi-weekly tournaments themselves:
please keep them going, Sapz, you (and whoever's helping you) have been doing an awesome work, and I'm very grateful, even if I skip some weeks.
Some people here have said that they enjoy survival more, let's hear from other people what characteristics they also enjoy!
Ideas for the next TH Special tournament:
UFO base point value ranking? (besides grazing, this would require people to get UFO tokens while an UFO is active, maybe rainbow UFOs for more UFOs, instead of blue/red UFOs)
TD no bombs (but Hypers on)?
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A change in how these are going to be run - both this and the SotW are now going to run on two week cycles rather than one week, starting with this week's SotW. The aim here is to give people a better chance at getting a good score in each, and to make it a little easier for people to participate in both if they want, since from what I've heard it's currently pretty damn hard to do both. So, this means the next Touhou Tournament's going to be in two weeks. Sorry about the delays if you were anticipating it sooner, but hopefully it'll pay off when the time comes. :V
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Does this change take effect in the week 20 challenge? If yes, prepare yourself, RLRBS. Aizo is outside my reach, I suppose :V
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Not this time unfortunately, since I already set the deadline as today and locked the thread. :V Week 21 will be the first one with the new timeframe, aside from SotW.
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I've not posted here before, but if my input is welcome, I guess I'll jump in. I think the single difficulty thing was much more interesting that having all of them at once. I felt much more like a "competition," rather than a big list of scores scattered across difficulties. I think I enjoyed this one more than any other, despite getting my scores crushed tragically, just because there was a single thing to focus and improve on. Increasing the time span is another good idea IMO. One week feels too short to really get into it.
This is unrelated to the tournaments, but for those general high score threads, we just post the score there right, with no kind of fancy business? I ask because I posted a score in Mystic Square and I don't think it ever got added.
Anyway, what I've seen of these tournaments has been pretty cool, so definitely keep them going!
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How about just condensing all the difficulties in to one scoreboard for the scoring challenges? I think it would work well, and it wouldn't just be the lunatic difficulties taking #1 every time either, we've had a couple weeks where hard mode scores were higher. It also allows everybody to compete together, but still on their own difficulty.
"Get the highest score possible by any means necessary!"
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How about just condensing all the difficulties in to one scoreboard for the scoring challenges? I think it would work well, and it wouldn't just be the lunatic difficulties taking #1 every time either, we've had a couple weeks where hard mode scores were higher. It also allows everybody to compete together, but still on their own difficulty.
"Get the highest score possible by any means necessary!"
+1 Naut.
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It also allows everybody to compete together, but still on their own difficulty.
It makes sense but I'd say leave it at a fixed difficulty. Its the only way scores will be truly comparable to each other. Besides, I think its very benefitial to enforce a certain difficulty. If for example you set it for Lunatic it will mean that the normal mode players probably wouldn't be able to clear but simply playing it will do them a lot of good when it comes to improving their skills. I know from experience that the only way to improve is to try your hand at something you can't do yet. Whether its trying to master a scoring path through a stage or trying to dodge a wickedly difficult pattern, its not something you are gonna learn from simply staying within your comfort zones. That a free choice of difficulty would allow you to. If you set it at Hard mode you will still challenge the lower level players and Lunatic players will find the survival easy which means they can focus more on scoring.
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or the lower-level players will just not participate
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Possibly.
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or the lower-level players will just not participate
Exactly.
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Don't see why you couldn't do both.
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Sapz, The Special this time is absolutely crazy. I haven't tried it yet but Yamame's opener is gonna haunt my soul. As for PCB, I don't know any kind of score tricks here and I have a feeling that looking up a world record run is being a bit overambitious. I don't even know what is a good score on Normal mode but I'll try getting something decent off. At least I won't have to worry about survival here.
I gotta say though, I think this thing going on for two weeks instead of just one gives me better chances to participate.
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Glad you're 'enjoying' it. :D I'm curious what progress people will have made with the special by the end of the two weeks.
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Worst special challenge ever. Sapz, you should let me run the tournaments, so I can put special challenges that don't make people want to chop their balls off instead.
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You have to
time out the noncard
to get past midboss Parsee, but it's hard and I don't see anyone getting out of stage 2 in this challenge. I'd guess getting around 42-50 million would be a great score, but for all I know T could be steamrolling Parsee no vertical and exceed those expectations.
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I'm pretty sure a no vertical 1cc of SA is intrinsically impossible, so the "no bombs - must play Lunatic" part is just overkill. On the other hand, I'm glad I've got 2 weeks for the normal challenge, seeing as, for me at least, the second week goes into Thanksgiving break, and I'll have oodles of free time. :]
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You have to time out the noncard
to get past midboss Parsee
Yeah I realized that, but it's still a dumb challenge that I won't be trying again.
I'm pretty sure a no vertical 1cc of SA is intrinsically impossible, so the "no bombs - must play Lunatic" part is just overkill. On the other hand, I'm glad I've got 2 weeks for the normal challenge, seeing as, for me at least, the second week goes into Thanksgiving break, and I'll have oodles of free time. :]
No vert SA is definitely possible, at least with ReimuA on Hard. Lunatic uhhhhhhhh.
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Man, I think you're missing the point here. You don't have to clear it - you just have to beat everyone else. :V
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My point is that I wouldn't enjoy trying to beat everyone else. What happened to fun challenges?
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I guess this one isn't your cup of tea, but speak for yourself - some people seem to be having fun with it. There's still the scoring challenge if you want some more regular competition. I admit this one might have been a bit over-ambitious, but it's still interesting to see what's possible within constraints like these.
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I made a PCB run!! Its apparently true that Normal mode actually does make you age faster. I did quite significantly improve my MarisaA highscore though so its not all fruitless and I did have a bit of fun listening to the music again. Nostalgic indeed. Any fun things to point out... yeah sure. I die on Stage 3 because I don't notice the presence of some slow moving bullets. Quite ironic really, apparently its easier for me to dodge bullets if there is a lot of them. That way I'm sure that I'll see them. :)
Oh and another death on Stage 4 against the opener... I'll just pull a Kefit and call it rank-hax bullshit because I happened to die on it. Or maybe I should've just dodged better. Then there is Youmu's 2nd spell. Which is totally different from the Hard/Lunatic version i mean damn... I died on it and I don't even have any excuse. Not paying enough attention I suppose. I did score a bit in the sense that I was firing unfocused for better cherry gain and stuff like that but that's really it. The highscoring replays somehow made the game take a longer time to beat so I decided to simply go with basic scoring. I still beat my old record with about 200 million so it was sufficient
EDIT:
Oh and I just tried that Special challenge. Apparently getting through Stage 1 is well doable which surprises me. Apparently all that stuff I do when I normally play that stage is pretty superflous as all you need is horizontal streaming. :) However, Yamame's non-spell. I'd love to see if someone can find a way to pass that. For me, the bullets kept coming at me horizontally at the same vertical level as me.
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No vert SA is definitely possible, at least with ReimuA on Hard. Lunatic uhhhhhhhh.
Oh really? I always assumed Okuu would make it impossible even on Easy mode, just because of 10 Evil Stars, Tokamak, and Subterranean Sun, but if it's possible I think I'll have to try it now.
However, Yamame's non-spell. I'd love to see if someone can find a way to pass that. For me, the bullets kept coming at me horizontally at the same vertical level as me.
I was able to "capture" that a few times, though it really does seem like luck. If she moves down and shoots, the bullets end up on the same level as you, so yeah... I don't see any way to do it consisently.
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I've not done a 1CC of any Touhou game, but, eh, the main challenge gives me an excuse to break out PCB and practise on that for a week.
Shame Marisa A isn't my best character in PCB, but, beggars can't be choosers.
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Yamame's non-spell. I'd love to see if someone can find a way to pass that. For me, the bullets kept coming at me horizontally at the same vertical level as me.
I got lucky with it in the second replay (http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=16939) I uploaded. When you happen to have her go downwards and you are close to the center of the screen, it can work if you start moving slowly to e.g. the right when the bullets starts to get aimed, and then quickly dash to far right side of the screen, sometimes bullets that appear to be on the same vertical plane will miss.
My best when getting to Yamame is now little over 27 million, but I'd guess about 29 should be attainable at that point if Kisume is speedblitzed and every blue item is picked up. I'm going to try more stage 2 and see if I can find a way to pick up all the items before midboss Parsee at max value. My first estimation of what a great score would be was likely too low, even if the player loses at endstage Parsee's opener.
-edit-
After some stage 2 testing I'd say 52 million is a good score to reach endstage Parsee at. I managed to time out the midboss nonspell losing only two lives, but was like a second away from passing it losing only 1, perhaps with a better strategy it can be done no miss it, since the bullets are aimed depending on how the player moves.
Parsee only has one completely ridiculous attack which is her first spell card, takes luck to capture unless I'm doing something wrong here. Anathema is quite hard but doable, her opener is also pretty tough, the rest is relatively easy. Tried some more stage 3 and every part of the stage is fine with a bit of planning.
This is all very exciting, I'm looking forward to seeing what others can do with this challenge.
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Stupid Stupid Yamame Wall... Almost passed it. Sigh, score getting to Yamame is still sub-20 mil (highest is 18 mil so far)
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WE NEED TO HAVE 180FPS CHALLENGES!
180FPS IS SO FUN!
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WE NEED TO HAVE 180FPS CHALLENGES!
180FPS IS SO FUN!
That's too fast I think.
Maybe at a more reasonable speed, although I do agree higher than 60 FPS challenges are needed.
Maybe 120.
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That's too fast I think.
thatsthepoint.jpg
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Personally I prefer challenges that are more or less doable, rather than kill you in two seconds. Not saying over 100 fps can't be done, but it's like you're playing a game other than Touhou. That or something which encourages weird gameplay rather than forcing it, such as "whoever clears SA with the lowest graze counter wins!" or something like that.
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thatsthepoint.jpg
I know that's the point, but 180 is still excessive. 120 is possible, 180 is technically, but good luck getting it.
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I tried doing IN at 180 FPS but I had to rage quit after losing 3 lives to Keine because I was too stupid to bomb
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I no-deathed the first 3 stages of 180fps IN Easy on my first try.
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I'm considering if suiciding at the beginning of stage 1 in the special challenge for power and graze is the best route.
Pros
~100 graze increase from the normal amount
-Beating Kisume quicker guarantees that many fairies afterwards will spawn, increasing faith by 2000+ and extra graze from streaming their shots - possibly 100 more graze from that alone?
-Increased damage means decreased risk of getting walled by Yamame
-Higher spell card bonuses from Kisume and Yamame
-One less mistake to make!
Cons
-Reduced bonus at the end of the stage
I tested the other ways of dealing with Kisume too, like timing out her opener, resulting in about 3500 faith increase and over 100 extra graze, but overall score loss of about 3 millions, seems unlikely that is made up from the small multiplier increase, not to mention the missing life pieces making it effectively reduce another million from the endstage bonus.
And timing out all Kisumes attacks for graze (granted I'm not that good at powergrazing). The results were about 150 graze over the usual amount, but I'm sure a proficient player could get 300 or more. And of course, there's also an immidiate score decrease due to the reduced spellcard bonus and also no fairies spawning afterwards.
Opinion on this? And does anyone have stats of how many point items and such are dropped in SA stage 1 and 2?
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-Increased damage means decreased risk of getting walled by Yamame
I have to ask, is entering Yamame at less than 3.xx Power really that common for a no-vert challenge?
And does anyone have stats of how many point items and such are dropped in SA stage 1 and 2?
I do. 126 Point items for Stage 1 (assuming you're spending extra time grazing Kisume), and at most 122 Point items for Stage 2 (only if you kill Green-Eyed Invisible Monster really quickly, obviously less if you take longer)
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I have to ask, is entering Yamame at less than 3.xx Power really that common for a no-vert challenge?
I've never entered the fight at 3.xx power in this challenge without suiciding because I haven't managed to kill both lines of red fairies in the beginning, I prefer making sure to kill the big one. It's probably easy to do, but I guess you'd have to sacrifice some graze to do it?
-edit-
Ok, yeah killing the extra red fairies is probably something worthwhile. Thanks for the feedback! Shouldn't you try this challenge btw?
I do. 126 Point items for Stage 1 (assuming you're spending extra time grazing Kisume), and at most 122 Point items for Stage 2 (only if you kill Green-Eyed Invisible Monster really quickly, obviously less if you take longer)
Great, thank you! I'll probably have to count stage 2 myself though since killing the midboos quickly is out of the question...
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Disclaimer: danmaku-free post.
For some reason PCB suddenly became twice as hard as EoSD for me (whereas they're normally not too far apart in difficulty [and are the only main-series games I can remotely play]) so I'm not feeling this round as it would require much wailing and gnashing of teeth. Granted, that was lunatic, but going to an easier difficulty at this juncture would be admitting defeat. No comment on the special challenge.
I'm very mehhhhhed about the limiting of difficulties in scoring for this round. I think both options - best score overall and best score per difficulty - can coexist just finely. Then again, coming from the person who basically only plays for the special challenges, this shouldn't carry much weight.
But! I love the two-week thing. Said it in irc but I think it's worth stating here as well. I'm going to be able to and motivated to participate more with this setup.
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Can we have another single stage max score as the next special challenge? I really enjoyed that stage 5 UFO challenge we had ages ago.
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I believe we haven't had a GFW challenge in a while. Might I suggest a scoring challenge for a route of Sapz's choice in the coming weeks?
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I believe we haven't had a GFW challenge in a while. Might I suggest a scoring challenge for a route of Sapz's choice in the coming weeks?
Might I suggest that is a bad idea? No, not really. That GFW No Ice was fun. I wouldn't mind one for the special challenge.
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Week 22 will be up soon. Sorry for the lack of scoreboard updates lately, I'll try and get them all done this week.
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My thoughts on Week 22, in order:
YEAH GHOST TEAM
Wait, no hard mode? ok then, norm...darn.
Alright, what about special.
Score in UFO...well that's no fun. Well, maybe if SanaeB
Sanae...A. Crap. Not doing that then.
Wait, all difficulties ranked together? THAT'S STUPID LUNATIC WILL ALWAYS WIN AND I CAN'T EVEN PLAY THAT STAGE ON LUNATIC THIS IS BS
</rant>
I'll probably not be participating this round, but maybe I'll throw something together for the scoring.
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currently first tournament without any extra/phantasm stage :X
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I'm bad with Ghost Team. I don't know how the heck you're supposed to shoot things and pick up items at the top of the screen as human without memorizing entirely new routes through the stages so expect a rubbish score. :V
As for the UFO challenge, I expect you to get to work Zil. ;)
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Hold on, we already did Nether team scoring challenge on Week 10. Why do it again?
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Because Overlord Sapz is a mean spirited hater. :V
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I'm actually quite happy with the IN scoring challenge, since I like to score in the game for a bit. And I'm actually able to do it on easymode without having to focus on survival. On lunatic I'd have to focus on survival too much, so I think I'll be leaving that one for Aizo, _jade and .ASP.
And, now I finally have to learn a proper way to supergraze Kaguya's penultimate Last Spell. With that I (and not failing before it) could aim for... 2.25B? :V
Oh, and I would love to see stage 6A in any short of challenge, as I like Eirin's patterns over Kaguya's and I find it sad not getting an excuse to do the Final A too often.
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As for the UFO challenge, I expect you to get to work Zil. ;)
Hmm. I'll have to unlock the stage first. :derp: Should be fun.
Final exams are nearly over with though, so I'll be all over this.
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Turns out that I'm missing mine too. Is there anyone who'd mind sharing theirs? I want to parcipate but I don't have much motivation for 1cc attempt atm and I just lost the last bit I had. So... if someone would upload theirs to somewhere I'd love them for it forever.
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I think there's a link to one in the tournament thread, actually.
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I have so far only been able to get 200M. It includes captures of Good Omen, Butterfly, Milky Way and LFO. How to not screw up Devils Recitation? Those bullets elude my vision depressingly well. Oh and two cringe worthy deaths on Superhuman I don't even want to talk about.
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Sorry for the delays, I got overloaded with stuff to do today. The next one will be up in a little while.
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This weeks scoring challenge:maybe, because it's Mountain of Faith. but I'm not touching extra with a ten-foot pole.
This weeks special challenge:nice idea, but I'm not going to be participating because lunatic only (basically for 3 special challenges in a row) is really getting annoying-and I can't even 1cc that lunatic, let alone clear with decent resources left.
EDIT: the challenge doesn't specify '1cc' anywhere...with some careful strategic continues/life/bomb fragment collection and a capture of the last spell I could potentially 'clear' 3/3-but 3/2 is more likely. Ruling on continuing on the special?
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I thought that was in the rules at the top... I guess not. I'll add it in. At any rate, one credit should go without saying, so no. :V Remember, clearing isn't essential; if you can't, you should attempt to get as far as possible. You may be surprised how far you get, though.
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Coincidence (http://subsun.cu.cc/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=fbb5e4ce894ac9c51f9c68d07754398c&topic=62) or conspiracy.
Nereid pointed that forum first.
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I haven't tried it yet, but the idea of a "resource hoarding" challenge sounds interesting. Should be purely survival oriented, so there's no need to learn a bunch of freaky scoring strategies.
Also I'm glad to see MoF, since I missed the previous MoF challenge.
@No Name: You should try to view the Lunatic requirement as a reason to improve at TD, rather a reason not to participate.
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Jaimers could do perfect TD Lunatic 1CC, but if lives number counts - it's trance time! :flamingv: As for me, i cant get past stage 4 on lunatic. If there were any challenge on hard - i'd participated.
As for MoF i maybe try normal with Reimu A, cause it's easy :V
I thought that was in the rules at the top... I guess not. I'll add it in. At any rate, one credit should go without saying, so no. :V Remember, clearing isn't essential; if you can't, you should attempt to get as far as possible. You may be surprised how far you get, though.
Wat? How can one gain lots of lives if he'll spend them all while getting as far as he can? :wat:
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You can't. Those who cannot clear are ranked by how far they got and by score.
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@No Name: You should try to view the Lunatic requirement as a reason to improve at TD, rather a reason not to participate.
It's also Marisa and I'm terrible with Marisa.
How can one gain lots of lives if he'll spend them all while getting as far as he can?
continue to Miko, continue immediately before clearing and 'clear'. Instant 2/2 finish.
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It's also Marisa and I'm terrible with Marisa.
Marisa is my favourite playable character in TD :3 She's fast and powerfull (especially at trance) and has MASTA SPAAAAK!
continue to Miko, continue immediately before clearing and 'clear'. Instant 2/2 finish.
That's how i "cleared" lunatic but it doesnt make much sense in terms of competition. Also no replay can proof continued try.
P.S.: My current personal goal i'm very close to is to 1CC hard no bombs with Marisa, so i'm pretty good at these conditions, but dont have enough lunatic practice. Though... It encourages me to go lunatic 1CC (no matter of the lives) :3
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Resource hoarding doesn't occur until the last two stages, so just play the first four casually, one life on Seiga, three bombs on Futo, then
perfect
Miko and that's it :V
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I suggested the 10D resource challenge, but my idea was to rank it based on the highest number of lives you have at any one point in your run. I still think that might have been a bit more interesting.
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MoF Normal: if I hadn't died twice I would have had 1.47 billion. Still lower than I would like, and I've barely used ReimuA (most of my playtime is with ReimuB), so I don't quite know how best to handle everything. Pretty terrible stage 4 route.
I don't know if I'll try again before the deadline, but if I do, I definitely want at least 1.55B. Even 1.60B should be doable if I actually learn how to do stage 4 properly.
ReimuA sure does make a lot of stuff easier compared to ReimuB though, especially in stage 4 and 5.
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Well, I improve my stage 4 route a bit after all, and I reached my 1.60B target with a run that still had some mistakes. I know that more is possible with this route, as I had an earlier run that was on track for 1.62B until I messed it up at the end.
It took several days of suffering before I finally got that no-miss run. Relief.
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Congratulations to all participants of 23rd contest ;) Pity i havent joined. Hope for more Ten Desires contests nex time.
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The deadline for submissions is 1PM (GMT) on Monday, January 20th!
I sense a discrepancy.
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I have a new found love for UFO and I now regret not participating in some of the UFO challenges. Hopefully there's going to be more UFO
Stage 3 run, anybody?
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It's really hard to like UFO challenges when that 114,000,000 blue one escapes.
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I sense a discrepancy.
What, you guys can't travel through time? Dammit. I guess I'll have to push the deadline back to this month.
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222 reference (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXlOWy8O_E4). Let's see how hard I can copy/improve/adapt it.
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Is there a way to disable the background? I've heard people complain about glitches causing that and stuff, but I want to get rid of it, or at least that spinning circle of light.
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That would be cheating. D:
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I have found a method for Imperishable Shooting which I have used to reach the theoretical maximum of 160 graze on the first wave.
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So there are exactly 160? The best I've done so far is 157. I'm also noticing that where Mokou randomly places the red ring in the second wave has a noticeable effect on how much of the blue one I can graze.
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So I didn't get around to Imperishable Shooting again. Oh well, great fun was had by all.
Considering these things are not running weekly, I figure the next thing should be called just "Touhou Tournament 25" or something.
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Didn't we have a graze competition for MoF a while ago
Why not do one for EoSD :]
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So I didn't get around to Imperishable Shooting again. Oh well, great fun was had by all.
I was actually worried that if you came up with a better replay I wouldn't have the morale to get into it again.
Well then it seems I have, for the first time ever, won a MotK challenge! :toot:
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Didn't we have a graze competition for MoF a while ago
Grazing in MoF? Yeah, that would be awesome! :yukkuri:
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I've come to the conclusion that using Normal, Lunatic and Extra as the difficulty selection for these adds more or less something for everyone while keeping the amount of categories fairly low (barring unusual special challenges and such). Thoughts?
Also, sorry about the late thread, etc.
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Yes 90 FPS :D
SA...ReimuB...eh, I can probably 1cc normal with that.
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Looking for clarification about special challenge:
*survival equals to no death or game over?
*survival fail in stage 6 beginning is equal to game clear - true or false?
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Survival means game over, and game over in stage 6 is ranked lower than a clear, marked by C.
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Is a game over at the beginning of stage 6 the same as a game over right at the end?
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If multiple people fail on the same spell/nonspell/part of stage, is the tie broken by score, time in or damage dealt?
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Ties are broken by score between everyone on the same stage - the whole boss/card/whatever deal I used to try to do is too hard to check/standardize in practice. :V
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Ties are broken by score between everyone on the same stage - the whole boss/card/whatever deal I used to try to do is too hard to check/standardize in practice. :V
So for the extra stage, it's really a scoring challenge since clearing while likely give such a huge boost to score it would beat most non-clears anyway.
Also what if there were volunteers who checked for that, all it takes is fast-forwarding a stage, I'd be willing to check that anyway (I fully plan on a 1cc by the challenge end, so mine will just fall under "score")
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Urrr... Just saw this thread. I'm not *that* good with Shmups yet, but this will prolly help me improve~
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So for the extra stage, it's really a scoring challenge since clearing while likely give such a huge boost to score it would beat most non-clears anyway.
You could argue the same thing about Normal mode for those skilled enough to clear it easily; for those who may struggle to beat the Extra stage, clearing it in itself will be a good goal and will add score as a side effect, likely moving them up places.
Regarding the stage positions, their removal generally makes everything a lot tidier and easier to deal with/read. It's less a matter of checking it than it is a matter of having a bunch of somewhat arbitrary rankings, which I feel don't really add much.
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To clear things up, survival is just survival right? As in, bomb whenever, but when you get a game over it's over? Or are bombs banned? O.o I think I'm confusing this with pacifists >~<
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Just get as far as you can. Game over is game over, no continues. Bombs are fine, so bomb liberally.
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Just tried SA normal @ 90 fps Brrrr.. >_< This is ridiculous. I cant get past stage 3. Better go scoring moar on my favourite TD :3
Also, way to go another 90 fps lunatic, Zil. Now with Reimu B ;)
Edit:
I may not be the first who noticed this but there's one thing about TD scoring. No matter what you do at stage 6 the maximum score you'll end up with will be around double the score you had at the end of the stage 5. I've noticed it in all my runs and all runs i watched. Maybe it's because the way of scoring on stage 6 is pretty obvious, so you can estimate minimal ammount of resources needed to enter it and do your best on the first 5 stages.
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Finally got around to entering, submitted a mistake ridden score. May or may not try to improve.
Might give 90FPS SA a try for the lulz at some point too.
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I want more people to do the special challenge on Lunatic.
I also want a superplay to copy for TD. :derp:
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I want more people to do the special challenge on Lunatic.
Yes you do
I also want a superplay to copy for TD. :derp:
No, you don't.
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No a NDNBNT run of lunatic Zil, totally the best way to score :D
If only it was...
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I also want a superplay to copy for TD. :derp:
Here you are (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/High_scores#Ten_Desires_world_records_.28.E6.9D.B1.E6.96.B9.E7.A5.9E.E9.9C.8A.E5.BB.9F.E3.81.AE.E5.85.A8.E4.B8.80.E8.A8.98.E9.8C.B2.29)
Guys! How the heck can you break 1 bln on normal? ??? I mean i saw replays and do a lot of stuff like there but still cant get even 900 mln :( Here's my current best attempt (http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=19266) at scoring with Reimu. Can anyone point me what am i doing wrong? I see like all score players do their best to enter stage 5 with full trance. Is is critical?
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Oh look scoring with TD Reimu again. :V I'm still debating how much I really want to do this.
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Here you are (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/High_scores#Ten_Desires_world_records_.28.E6.9D.B1.E6.96.B9.E7.A5.9E.E9.9C.8A.E5.BB.9F.E3.81.AE.E5.85.A8.E4.B8.80.E8.A8.98.E9.8C.B2.29)
Guys! How the heck can you break 1 bln on normal? ??? I mean i saw replays and do a lot of stuff like there but still cant get even 900 mln :( Here's my current best attempt (http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=19266) at scoring with Reimu. Can anyone point me what am i doing wrong? I see like all score players do their best to enter stage 5 with full trance. Is is critical?
Main steps:
1. Shotgun bosses
2. Bomb bosses
3. Trance bosses
:V
No, it's not critical to enter stage 5 with full trance. That may just be the current optimised route. You can attain 1,000,000,000 without that. Just plan your bombs/trances/deaths to optimise spirit intake. Also, look at what the players are doing throughout stages and see what kind of increase a certain trance/bomb in a certain place with give.
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No, you don't.
I'm thinking that if I have a bunch of tricks from scoring they will help me get a 90fps 1cc, since I hear a score run in TD is a bomb-everything run anyway.
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Main steps:
1. Shotgun bosses
2. Bomb bosses
3. Trance bosses
That's what i'm doing all the way. But not only the bosses matter. Places like fairies after Kogasa or stage 5 start give you a lot of spirits. That's why it's good to use trance there to raise your point item value.
Also there are attacks like Yoshika 1st and 3rd spells wich dont give you spirits from a boss, or Seiga/Yoshika nonspells where you can fire Yoshika for more spirits, or critical places like Futo boat giving you spirits at double rate and so on..
I'm thinking that if I have a bunch of tricks from scoring they will help me get a 90fps 1cc, since I hear a score run in TD is a bomb-everything run anyway.
More like trance as much as possible. And bomb to get more spirits for trance.
Edit: Just tried it again and got only 884 mil :(
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That's what i'm doing all the way. But not only the bosses matter. Places like fairies after Kogasa or stage 5 start give you a lot of spirits. That's why it's good to use trance there to raise your point item value.
Also there are attacks like Yoshika 1st and 3rd spells wich dont give you spirits from a boss, or Seiga/Yoshika nonspells where you can fire Yoshika for more spirits, or critical places like Futo boat giving you spirits at double rate and so on..More like trance as much as possible. And bomb to get more spirits for trance.
Edit: Just tried it again and got only 884 mil :(
Then copy a replay. That'll help. :V
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Heck yeah! 900m break. Game over at Miko's last spell, but this doesnt matter cause final bonus is insignificant in TD (except of extra). Looks like i'm learning some good routes. Hold on, billion! I'm coming for you :3
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You know what's surprising me right now? Trying my hand at scoring in TD actually feels a bit refreshing (joggling the old memory banks, there's no feeling like it :V). I was able to get to Seiga while "roughly" following mithril's path, though I stopped there partly because I was short 2 bomb fragments and partly because I have other things to do right now. I can at least be thankful that Reimu's relative weakness means I actually need to dodge some boss attacks, and of course the scoring system always worked well enough for the stage portions.
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1.3b with Marisa on Normal was pretty simple with some improvising and Miko bombspamming. :V Although I feel that I'm using way too many resources on her than I should. Hopefully I can do better with Reimu.
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1.3b with Marisa on Normal was pretty simple with some improvising and Miko bombspamming. :V Although I feel that I'm using way too many resources on her than I should. Hopefully I can do better with Reimu.
Marisa is much better for scoring cause of higher damage and spirit farming rate. Also she doesnt suck spirits on trance like Reimu wich could be used for some fancy trance refilling shenanigans. Reimu is kinda more interesting to use.
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I've come to the conclusion that using Normal, Lunatic and Extra as the difficulty selection for these adds more or less something for everyone while keeping the amount of categories fairly low (barring unusual special challenges and such). Thoughts?
What about switching it between Normal/Lunatic/Extra and Easy/Hard/Extra every other week? That way it would get some diversity, and every difficulty mode would get a change to be scored at. And easymode players like me could score.
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Did i missed something, or why the results of MoTK 24 weren't published in the thread? ???
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It's because I'm slow and lazy. Don't worry, they'll get done. :V
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Good job on 1.3b Apathy!
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Good job on 1.3b Apathy!
+1
Looks like my route for stage 1 is good ;)
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If my last run is any indication, where I went into TD Lunatic mostly cold and performed everything up to Seiga perfectly, I might be getting more consistent at scoring this game. There's also this one idea I got for her last card in case I can't get a Trance up. Obviously it won't be optimal, but it can at least keep the run going.
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Zero motivation to do a better run right now. May have another go towards the end of the tourny.
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I realize I Have No Name kind of brought this up a while ago, but I want to throw in my opinion on it. I feel like for survival challenges it would make more sense to rank the the people who actually 1cc the game by remaining resources at the end, kind of like the TD special challenge from whenever ago. As it is it really seems to just boil down to a scoring challenge rather than survival, which I feel takes the fun out of it for those who were just playing for survival. Naturally I'm not saying change the rules midway for this one, but I think future challenges would make more sense that way, at least if it's going to be called a "survival challenge."
On a related note, I'm a little sad that nobody else is doing SA Lunatic. I expected there to be some competition going on there.
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On a related note, I'm a little sad that nobody else is doing SA Lunatic. I expected there to be some competition going on there.
I don't play at 90 fps. :V
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Almost able to 1cc Extra! Wont be able to compare to T's score though. Able to get to the second to last spell card at the moment. Will see what I can do before the tournament ends.
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When will I ever be able to get spirits during Nue's first card?
oh right never
then why am i always trying to do that then die in the first 5 seconds
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Hopefully get my Extra score up to 250-300m by Monday!
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Aww, Funen! That one death with 3 bombs before Miko cost you 2 bil, i suppose. Damn, even in Ten Desires with it's dumb scoring system getting a good score-run is always a matter of flawless performance.
Meanwhile, did i missed something, or does anyone trying 90 fps SA extra?
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I tried it, and got to Embers of Love. Maybe I should go for a clear, though ReimuB is hardly my preferred character,
and noone else is trying to beat me anyway .
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Ahaha! And then came papa T and kicked our butts like he should :toot:
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Those scores are from Heartbeam. T posted them for him because he's too autistic to do it himself I guess.
I'll attempt to top that normal score but 90fps is hard booooooo
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Why so late? :(
I might have been able to beat that Extra score if I had more time.
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Just watched Heartbeam's extra replay. Holy flying dicks of netherworld! :o He's playing 90 fps like it's native speed, making all regular 60 fps players feel like slowdown cheaters :D
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True thing man. I just watched T's 750 mil run and it was fucking amazing. I mean, I caught myself looking down at the FPS-counter several times thinking 'This was done at 90FPS right?'
It just seems so unrealistic to be able to move with that much precision in 90FPS game speed. Do you guys just turn off your muscle memory or something? Regardless, really impressive run.
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I heard a mention of speedrunning the Touhou games in one thread by Supermassive Catfish. We should do a challenge like that :V
I'd imagine MoF or SA could be cut down to <20 minutes or so. Eh?
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I'm thinking there is a definate minimum for the Special challange. You have to pacify everything, though I guess a suicide to PWG is called for. It will be silly if the bullets cancelled in PWG alone determine who wins on Normal, assuming multiple people manage a perfect pacifist run. :derp:
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Oh man. I feel like i'll miss this the challenge this time, cause i don't like scoring in EoSD and playing MoF for low score is boring to hell :V Good luck to all participants though!
P.S.: I think special challenge will be more fun on lunatic mode :3
Just watched Heartbeam's run... Thanks god, vpatch with it's fast forward replay exists :munch:
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pacifist mof except for pwg huh
sounds fun, maybe i'll try it later if i have 40-45 minutes to waste :V
I heard a mention of speedrunning the Touhou games in one thread by Supermassive Catfish. We should do a challenge like that :V
I'd imagine MoF or SA could be cut down to <20 minutes or so. Eh?
MoF runs are generally around 21-22 minutes. I wouldn't be surprised if someone could cut a full run down to 20 minutes. SA will probably take longer than that, and I have doubts about cutting a run down to 20 minutes.
Someone prove me wrong. :derp:
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how long has mof been that short
my last stab at it clocked in about 26 minutes
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You can skip spell cards with bombs in MoF.
Edit: Hurr hurr Nokia 6600 and it's weird text limitations.
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how long has mof been that short
my last stab at it clocked in about 26 minutes
did that card really last 4 seconds when i bombed
edit: read most recent posts next time
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My 90fps clear of SA, which bombed practically everything, still took over 20 minutes, so I'd be pretty damn surprised if someone got through faster than that at normal game speed. MoF might be doable though.
You know, I think the game that makes the most sense to speedrun is actually HRtP. :wat:
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Someone prove me wrong. :derp:
MairsaB comes in around 17.
You know, I think the game that makes the most sense to speedrun is actually HRtP. :wat:
About a month ago someone made a thread on SDA about HRtP.
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I think I made a UFO run that lasted about 19 minutes, but I'm not sure.
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Week 27 up, sorry for delays. Enjoy!
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MairsaB comes in around 17.
Wow, 17 as in 17 flat or something like 17:50 ish? I wonder if Marisa B is faster than Mairsa A.
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Wow, 17 as in 17 flat or something like 17:50 ish? I wonder if Marisa B is faster than Mairsa A.
I was referring to MoF with that, and I'd say ReimuC would probably be fastest for SA. I haven't done any testing though so *shrug*
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I was referring to MoF with that, and I'd say ReimuC would probably be fastest for SA. I haven't done any testing though so *shrug*
Alright, that makes sense, but it's somewhat disappointing at the same time, it would have been awesome if something like shotgunning through the whole game with MarisaB using the wood option was insanely fast. There's no way ReimuC is faster than MarisaA at clearing the main game though, maybe the Utsuho fight goes slightly faster with ReimuC, but I doubt it. I've never tried midboss skipping with MarisaB in the extra, if she can't then ReimuC is probably the fastest there, unless the steady high dps of ReimuA and MarisaA wins it in the end.
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I believe MarisaB can skip Sanae. Actually, I thought she was the only one who could do it until recently learning otherwise.
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Just reminding, or informing, people that ReimuC can skip Yuugi entirely with her bomb. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnM-r1ewCws)
ReimuC can skip Stage 6 Orin as well.
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Just curious, has anyone ever tried a lowest graze challenge? Maybe in proportion with points? That would be interesting to watch.
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Just reminding, or informing, people that ReimuC can skip Yuugi entirely with her bomb. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnM-r1ewCws)
ReimuC can skip Stage 6 Orin as well.
I've tried before but never learned how to do the Yuugi skip, what's the secret? Is it Normal only or something?
Skipping Orin, just like bombspamming the other midbosses (except Yuugi), saves no time at all. Even if Yuugi is skipped I'd think MarisaA has a chance of being faster in the long run, with her approximately 50% higher dps and all.
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I've tried before but never learned how to do the Yuugi skip, what's the secret? Is it Normal only or something?
Skipping Orin, just like bombspamming the other midbosses (except Yuugi), saves no time at all. Even if Yuugi is skipped I'd think MarisaA has a chance of being faster in the long run, with her approximately 50% higher dps and all.
But if MarisaB can do that...then wouldn't MarisaB be best due to (as you mentioned) Wood shotgunning?
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But if MarisaB can do that...then wouldn't MarisaB be best due to (as you mentioned) Wood shotgunning?
Maybe, but can MarisaB do that? I've been trying the Yuugi skip with ReimuC now and I have no idea how to do it, what am I doing wrong? :(
I can't pull it off with MarisaB either...
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Aww. 26 week thread is gone and there were no results published :(
↓ Thanks for the link, Ridley 64. It's nice to see myself in the list :3
As for a new challenge i don't even bother. Neither MS nor IN aren't my cup of tea.
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Aww. 26 week thread is gone and there were no results published :(
The results are recorded here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8465.msg825184.html#msg825184).
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Hey, why don't we have another SA special challenge next week? SA Lunatic MarisaC - activate the most bombs to win, this is awesome on many levels, it rewards extreme skills and strategy; you activate the bomb and then avoid getting hit to regain power to bomb again, totally badass, while it probably leads to timing out bosses and stuff, it's still much more dynamic than plain pacifist.
Yeah, I just watched the new MarisaC normal WR.
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The problem with challenges like that is that it's a huge pain to go back and count bombs at the end of your run. I can see a lot of people avoiding participation if they had to do that for each submission.
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However, I could see a lot of people participating if Sapz had to do it. Or maybe that's just me. :V
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As you guys have guessed, I try to stay away from stuff where the results aren't easily accessible from an uploader or a screenshot - having to watch a replay to confirm things is usually way too time consuming. :V Same sort of reason why I've moved away from the 'Stage 4 Stage Start', '5 Boss Non-Card 3' sort of labelling - there's too much variation in how people list things and it's often not something you can easily check out or quantify.
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Just to let you guys know, this fortnight's tournament will be starting tomorrow. Apologies for the delays, I have an exam I need to take care of before I can get this set up. :V
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Hooray for TD no vertical! It's such a fun thing. :toot: I don't think normal 1CC is possible because of Miko's last attack becomes bullshit and you've got not enough resources to survive it. And i'm looking forward for how far lunatic players will go :)
As for scoring in such conditions it looks like all about collecting power items, cause they're only wich worth it after you'll get a full power.
My "best" attempt ended at Miko's 2nd nonspell, but i dont wanna share it cause it had some silly derps along the way. But the primary strategy is like this:
1. Perfect first 3 stages (except timing out Heal by Desire)
2. Get some trance from bottom ghosts at stage 4 start.
3. Bomb Seiga's midspell.
4. Fullfill the trance on the bottom ghosts after it.
5. Perfect Seiga/Yoshika.
6. Use trance against last fairy spam at the end of stage 5. The hardest thing is not to get hit by aimed bullets from last ghosts ring before it (wich i fail all the time :fail:). This should give you 1 or 2 bombs.
7. Try to capture Futo's next to last spell, but as Zil said, it's luckshit.
8. 2 bombs for Futo's last spell.
9. Survive stage 6 fairy spam (wich i failed) and try to get as much power items as possible.
10. See how far you can get through Miko with resources left.
I think either Haku or Malkyrian could do it to Miko's last, and so will try me :) So it will be all about scoring and luck.
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Week 29 is up! Apologies for the delays, I'll try and update the previous ones soon.
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Week 30 is up, enjoy. Weeks 27-29 will be updated and archived later today.
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EoSD hates me. ::)
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More people should try the Special Lunatic and Extra challenges. :<
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More people should try the Special Lunatic and Extra challenges. :<
Maybe. If I'm feeling especially masochistic.
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I certainly will once I have time. Lunatic's gonna be awesome.
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I would be giving it a "shot" if it weren't already being dominated. *shudder*
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cmon zil
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I'm trying! You aren't making it easy. D:
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Is anyone else going to try MoF ReimuC Normal? That replay I posted (which I was hoping for some incentive to try to improve) isn't even a no-death run, so it should be easily beatable simply by not dying.
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Is anyone else going to try MoF ReimuC Normal?
I would if I didn't have huge input lag on MoF.
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Bleh. I've done all I can do. I might try a few more Extra runs later tonight, but that's it. I don't have it in me anymore.
Brilliant playing Cactu, and thanks for the competition!
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I FUCKING SUCK! ;_____;
wp zil
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Silly suggestion for next special challenge:
Compete for most uses of the gap (SA ReimuA)
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Serious suggestion for next special challenge: Lowest graze, in a game with a graze counter that isn't SA. I'd watch replays of that. <_<
Also bump.
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Regarding this fortnight's tournament thread, I was thinking about having Mystic Square this week for scoring, the reason being that Mystic Square is a candidate for the final week of STGT (starting next week), and I know there are people who often participate here who are playing in STGT. However, we had MS a little while back - so, anyone mind having it in again?
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I don't mind :)
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Just make it Mima, since STGT requires us to use the highest scoring shot.
It'd be fun if someone who didn't participate in STGT beat every TiH member in MS.
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A possible idea for a future special challenge could be "unlock Hatate as fast as possible", using a new score.dat and going off of the in-game timer.
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Mystic Square! /o/
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A possible idea for a future special challenge could be "unlock Hatate as fast as possible", using a new score.dat and going off of the in-game timer.
I sadly don't have logs of the discussion, but actually Sapz's original idea was to make a challenge about clearing DS as fast as possible. However it got... refined a bit, due to the large lenght of the game.
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It's only 2 and a half hours (or less).
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EDIT: No, nevermind. I'm sticking with this score. Tired of restarting over bad RNG on the first 5 seconds of the game.
(responding to this from the submission thread)
Do you mean restarting to reach DreamBonus Max as soon as possible? It doesn't matter too much on Normal in my experience. It takes over 20 point items collected at 51200 instead of 100000 before you've lost a million points from a late DreamBonus Max, and one accidental death later in the game can cost more than that.