Author Topic: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines  (Read 141518 times)

Helepolis

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Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
« Reply #90 on: February 23, 2015, 09:12:24 AM »
Based on information so far I will update the main post tonight. Anything that is questionable or confusing I shall treat as "negative advice"

Soul Devour

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Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
« Reply #91 on: March 09, 2015, 08:26:28 PM »
Now that I'm not posting in the middle of the night, my point is that conventions already have a doujin event, they just call it Artist's Alley, which has become a misnomer for what actually goes on.   Sometimes non-art is seperated off into a Dealer's Room where you'll find stuff like toys and games, but that leaves things like books and music still in AA.  These places are loaded with self published fanworks and original works, and in Dealer's Rooms you can always find Japanese doujin goods being resold.

I'm not trying to be difficult here, I just think excluding artist alleys doesn't help anyone because those are doujin events.

I'm quite late in responding to this, but I can't help but agree.

All the Artist's Alleys I've been in consist of an artist's homemade goods, be it artwork, buttons, keystraps, keychains, plushies, figures and even in a couple rare cases, music and comics. Some of the stuff are original creations, although a much vaster portion of the wares I've seen are fanworks of one of the types I mentioned above (For example, a plushie Cucco dressed up as Link). I've never been to Comiket, but I'd imagine AAs are extremely similar to what one would see at Comiket, albeit at a much, *much* smaller scale. 

Edit: Tried to make it read slightly better.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2015, 08:36:33 PM by Soul Devour »

N-Forza

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Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
« Reply #92 on: March 10, 2015, 01:52:31 AM »
As I mentioned before, I only discussed games that night. If you want to sell merch/books/etc. in Artist Alleys, have at, but games aren't quite the same.

Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
« Reply #93 on: March 17, 2015, 09:22:36 PM »
http://www.dlsite.com/home/work/=/product_id/RJ141995.html

I have found Remilia 3D Action game here too. And other Touhou fangames in Dl site.
Is there and agreement as "If that Touhou fangame has been ever released in Comiket or Reitaisai before, That game is allowed to sell by digital download in a specific site." ?

N-Forza

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Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
« Reply #94 on: March 18, 2015, 02:07:11 AM »
I think it's more the fact that if you're even on DLsite in the first place as a customer, you're aware of doujin culture and more than likely realize it's a fangame.

Shadow1176

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Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
« Reply #95 on: July 03, 2015, 05:20:32 PM »
Hello, I just wanted to ask a few things.

I know that Touhou games cannot be published on Steam whether it be for free or paid, but does that extend to the Steam Workshop as well?
Because I'd like to create a Touhou fangame in RPG Maker VX which I have on Steam, and share it with others, but does that violate the guidelines of not being able to use Steam to distribute it?
Also, are there any content violations that I should also be aware of, such as using Spell Card names and other such related content, besides actually using official portraits and such?
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Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
« Reply #96 on: July 03, 2015, 05:48:33 PM »
If you read the legal agreement associated with Steam Workshop, you are actually publishing the content through Steam.  This is why my game is distributed as a save file and the raw mod files.

Shadow1176

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Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
« Reply #97 on: July 03, 2015, 06:23:19 PM »
Ah, thank you for the clear up. I was worried about that.
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Drake

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Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
« Reply #98 on: July 03, 2015, 09:03:23 PM »
Indeed, the reason Steam isn't greenlit is the same as many other large platforms -- it's the spreading and advertising of created content (using Touhou IP) to the masses, using that large platform.

Spell card names and the like are a non-issue; you're going to be using Touhou characters anyways. Don't use official data, basically?

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Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
« Reply #99 on: July 04, 2015, 03:38:18 AM »
Don't use official data, basically?

I think what everything boils down to is "Don't make trouble for the original IP holders," in this case it's ZUN but it extends to the whole of doujin culture.

This means making it clear who is the original IP holder (marking your stuff as fanworks), don't make people think you're trying to profit off their IP (limited print runs), and self publish (this means basically no app stores or retail).

Not making trouble is also not a balancing act.  If something you're doing would make trouble for the original author, but you feel they'd benefit somehow, that is their decision to make, not yours.  In this case you'd need to reach out to the original author to work something out, simply assuming is no good.


Lastly, I'd like to say that with the culture in the West being what it is, it's actually easier to do an indie work than a doujin one.  If you think you're good enough to do something really cool, you need to ask yourself if it's worth tying it to someone else's IP and limiting yourself.  Obviously we're all big fans of Touhou here, but if you're making a game "For the Art" and just borrowing Touhou as a basis, it may be better for your project to be an original work free of doujin limitations, because in the West that kind of thing is readily accepted, and while you may not get the initial boost of followers it really opens up your options for getting the project done.

Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
« Reply #100 on: July 06, 2015, 02:36:57 AM »
A note on excluding anime conventions: although this generally goes along with the sentiment of not selling Touhou fan material outside the context of the original series and so forth, the structure of conventions in Japan and NA (and likely Europe, etc) are different in that western conventions largely are built on interest-specific panels. Selling Touhou doujin material within the bounds of a Touhou-related panel (rather than a generic dealer room) is almost certainly acceptable, as one would expect most people who visit a panel are already acquainted with the series.

One thing to make note of here is to make sure you're not running afoul of the _convention's_ guidelines when you do this, as well - if I'm not mistaken, many conventions have guidelines which basically amount to "you're not allowed to sell things outside of approved vendor areas i.e. dealer's room/artist's alley" and if con staff care to enforce it they could theoretically kick you out of the con or something.  That being said, in most cases it might also be possible for Touhou panel organizers to arrange for special permission in advance, like the Touhou swap meet at AWA a couple years ago.

james7132

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Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
« Reply #101 on: July 25, 2015, 03:13:57 AM »
A point of clarification, is open source distribution via cloud hosted repositories or file hosting, like Github or MediaFire, OK? Strictly speaking, both are open digital distribution methods that are clearly not in a community familiar with Touhou, so would that rule out said distribution methods?

Likewise, if we were to create a networked fangame, and had some external service, like say a externally hosted matchmaking service, as an free option to improve upon gameplay, would that be OK?

Neither are for pay, and both are completely free (we would be hosting/paying for hosting the networking services as to remove all costs to the players).

I am not 100% sure what I am asking is relevant, but I just want to be absolutely sure before moving forward in using the aforementioned two features in my current and future projects.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2015, 03:22:06 AM by james7132 »

Drake

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Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
« Reply #102 on: July 25, 2015, 05:11:22 PM »
Whether something is hosted using a cloud service isn't an issue. The main difference between Github and Mediafire or other hosting sites is that through Github you can navigate your way to the repo through search functions and the like, which makes it a slightly wobblier option than some dedicated hosting site where the only way you're getting to the content is from a direct link. Meanwhile, besides the "public indexed repository" aspect of Github, I wouldn't call either of these "distribution methods" in the same sense as previously talked about, since their roles are generally more of pure hosting rather than... the point from which the author puts the content on display for distribution, and from which they would be putting purchase options if they chose to; I guess? Comparatively, hosting sites like Axfc are commonly used in Japan, or even better being Coolier since it's strictly Touhou fan uploads, but yeah the hosting itself isn't really any concern in most cases (both Axfc and Coolier are mostly used for small uploads though, as full-scale projects usually go physical or are put on a personal site etc).

I honestly can't answer that networking question since I don't know of any precedent. I would gauge that such a thing would be okay unless the service has ridiculous terms of use, but considering most networked doujin games use P2P and often roll their own netcode (or have fans roll it for them) I can't really say much for sure.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2015, 05:15:53 PM by Drake »

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Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
« Reply #103 on: August 20, 2015, 02:45:22 AM »
Do hacks count as doujin? And if not, do they follow the guidelines?

Drake

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Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
« Reply #104 on: August 20, 2015, 04:28:31 AM »
Um, what do you mean by hack? That's pretty broad.

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Sparen

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Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
« Reply #105 on: August 20, 2015, 02:13:08 PM »
Do hacks count as doujin? And if not, do they follow the guidelines?

If you are taking the game itself and are literally tearing apart the actual source or ecl code and replacing it, then maybe... just maybe, it would be considered doujin. But in this case you're walking a very gray boundary. If you're going to make a derivative work, it's best to make it yourself and not use the official game's engine (unless it's meant to be a patch or direct parody of the official game)

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Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
« Reply #106 on: August 20, 2015, 02:47:11 PM »
It should be obvious that hacks to the games themselves are not allowed unless tools are provided (which they aren't for Touhou).

Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
« Reply #107 on: October 03, 2015, 03:19:10 AM »
Okay, so I want to make an arrangement of "Nuclear Fusion" from Subterranean Animism for a concert band, And so say a community band were to perform it, and charge 5$ to get into the performance (Noted, it would be among other songs).

N-Forza

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Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
« Reply #108 on: October 03, 2015, 02:50:23 PM »
So long as ZUN is credited somewhere on the program it's probably not a big deal. They hold Touhou concerts over here all the time.

Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
« Reply #109 on: April 21, 2016, 08:56:10 AM »
Hi, would I be considered a violator of the rule regarding the use of 東方 in naming doujin works if I did included 東方 in naming a tool/engine or that rule only concerns fangames?
« Last Edit: April 21, 2016, 10:10:20 AM by Nitori »

Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
« Reply #110 on: April 21, 2016, 10:03:42 AM »
There's no rule forbidding you from using 東方XXX-style titles, but it's frowned upon. In any case there's no reason to use a japanese title if Japan isn't your primary target audience.

Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
« Reply #111 on: April 21, 2016, 10:15:46 AM »
There's no rule forbidding you from using 東方XXX-style titles, but it's frowned upon. In any case there's no reason to use a japanese title if Japan isn't your primary target audience.

I see,  the general Touhou fan communities are my target audience eg.  be it Japan or the west so I guess it's fine to keep the Japanese title. Anyway, I will reconsider my choice of title. Thanks.

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Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
« Reply #112 on: April 26, 2016, 09:31:39 PM »
Do JP doujin groups use 3rd party storefronts?  Because setting up your own sucks bigtime.

N-Forza

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Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
« Reply #113 on: April 27, 2016, 02:45:00 AM »
That's pretty much what Melonbooks/Toranoana/Akiba-Hobby/etc. are.

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Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
« Reply #114 on: April 27, 2016, 01:00:16 PM »
I thought those were resellers like jlist and required ZUN's ok.  Not places like storenvy where you could have "Moogs' Store"

N-Forza

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Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
« Reply #115 on: April 27, 2016, 01:52:33 PM »
Oh, that kind of stuff. If it's accessible though some other portal besides your own site, that might be a bit of gray area, leaning towards black.

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Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
« Reply #116 on: April 27, 2016, 02:18:00 PM »
Yeah that's the assumption I had been running under but I thought I'd double check. Thanks.

Back to plan D

Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
« Reply #117 on: May 16, 2016, 02:37:32 PM »
Just done reading the whole thread. Phew!

So, Moogs, you didn't have any problems and got the permission from ZUN/one of his people?

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Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
« Reply #118 on: May 16, 2016, 04:00:42 PM »
Danmaku is a doujin work, not an official one. We got permission from ZUN years ago to enter a design competition which could have resulted in a publishing deal but we didn't win.

Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
« Reply #119 on: May 16, 2016, 05:41:06 PM »
So...

It could be an OFFICIAL card game, if I understand it right. Thanks for clarifying.

(although that would be amazing if it happened. If you know, what did win that contest?)