Author Topic: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F  (Read 258456 times)

ZoomyTsugumi

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #360 on: August 25, 2018, 12:28:03 AM »
Beat Alice with my party average 2 levels under challenge level. Not a hard fight at all with Hina to mass debuff and then Mokou to spam her WND attack + Keine to buff her. The occasional Pain Flow was put in for some good damage as well as using Kogasa for TRR and then Parsee for JotKaL for extra severe damage after Mokou got sniped.

So far the Jungle stratum is mostly just a minor pain, but thankfully Mokou's Fujiyama Volcano can safely one shot pretty much every single enemy that I've encountered, it's a shame she only ever has the MP to cast it twice before needing to refill.

I've taken Reimu out of my party for the first time ever, and not having that extra 1MP refill chance after battles is making me a bit sad but I'll deal. Mystia is kind of sucky still but maybe that's just because she's got bad elements for the time you get her, once I hit Desert stratum things might improve for her. Rumia is awesome, she's not hugely tanky but with Hina as a debuff tank Rumia and the party don't actually get hit super hard when they're out so I can manage battles just fine with 1 or 2 heals at most and inbetween heals Rumia hits like an absolute truck. Momiji still is nice for being a raw stat tank but she's slowly becoming obsolete already in favour of Hina or even Keine and soon to be Mokou, heck I could even build Kogasa into a tank if I wanted to.

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #361 on: August 25, 2018, 12:07:28 PM »
Beat Alice with my party average 2 levels under challenge level. Not a hard fight at all with Hina to mass debuff and then Mokou to spam her WND attack + Keine to buff her. The occasional Pain Flow was put in for some good damage as well as using Kogasa for TRR and then Parsee for JotKaL for extra severe damage after Mokou got sniped.

So far the Jungle stratum is mostly just a minor pain, but thankfully Mokou's Fujiyama Volcano can safely one shot pretty much every single enemy that I've encountered, it's a shame she only ever has the MP to cast it twice before needing to refill.

I've taken Reimu out of my party for the first time ever, and not having that extra 1MP refill chance after battles is making me a bit sad but I'll deal. Mystia is kind of sucky still but maybe that's just because she's got bad elements for the time you get her, once I hit Desert stratum things might improve for her. Rumia is awesome, she's not hugely tanky but with Hina as a debuff tank Rumia and the party don't actually get hit super hard when they're out so I can manage battles just fine with 1 or 2 heals at most and inbetween heals Rumia hits like an absolute truck. Momiji still is nice for being a raw stat tank but she's slowly becoming obsolete already in favour of Hina or even Keine and soon to be Mokou, heck I could even build Kogasa into a tank if I wanted to.

Nazrin + Chen is an insane combo here (which you want anyway for the BP). With enough library and good equipment, Nazrin can spam her PHY and CLD spells on respectively-weak enemies, have Extra Steps trigger, swap Instant Attack Chen and have her sweep the rest with Phoenix Spread Wings. Worked very well for me.


Also, I'm through the maingame and currently going through enhanced shadow bosses, up to Azure Giant. The further I go, the more I realize how awful the base game postgame is. So unbalanced and unfun. I overleveled myself up to 140 before even fighting Murakumo just so I wouldn't have to make that investment later, and all the bosses are still kicking my ass left-handed (and I haven't even done the arguably worst ones yet). Don't wanna Diva Aya it again though. I beat these with Calamity Four (even if I don't remember how), I can do it with a normal party... somehow. But it might take a while and it won't be fun.

ZoomyTsugumi

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #362 on: August 25, 2018, 12:15:37 PM »
Nazrin is workable especially when hitting weakness but I've found Chen to be pretty disappointing even for these floors with FIR weak enemies. I've ended up benching her because I just feel like I can get better mileage out of other people right now (though I may end up needing a little bit more BP from her so she might make another appearance very soon).

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #363 on: August 25, 2018, 01:18:41 PM »
Chen's base attack is abhorrently pitiful. It can be fixed later, but... not for most of the main game. She still kind of works for awhile because of Kimontonkou, but yeah, oof. Row Atk Enhance+Phoenix Spread Wings, awakening boosts, Ran buffing her EVA, and Yukari's powerful synergy move make her work in Plus Disk, but I can't see using her any sooner outside of "well I needed -someone- with Instant Attack".
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #364 on: August 25, 2018, 01:45:44 PM »
Yeah, I gave her the Enhanced Row Attack from Warrior and it let Phoenix' Spread Wings slice through enemies like butter. Besides, you can pretty much throw her out again after 9F and no one else needs the subclass really badly. She worked fine for me, at least.

I've been finding myself using a lot of characters I don't normally use for floor trash with offensive builds - Iku, Sanae's SPI never miss move is especially great against those annoying Void Assassins on 18/19F, Eirin... very interesting to see. Iku's defense piercing basic attack was also very fun against the fire stratum enemies with high defenses.

Would it be a bad thing to leave the base game postgame stuff like Renko/Maribel, Enhanced Bosses etc. behind and entering B1F instead? Iirc you only need 46 characters to get there, but I really am getting tired of the shadow bosses to the point where I don't want to deal with them right now.

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #365 on: August 25, 2018, 05:08:11 PM »
Can always murder postgame bosses when your level is a bit better and you have silly plus disk gear. Although you'll have to recruit Renko/Mari before too long, iirc.

Iku's really potent against random fights. Well, for most of the game. In Plus Disk she's better served with SPD tweaking to buff your best attacker first, but in maingame her normal attack kicks major butt for almost no cost. And SPI is really useful, so Sanae works great.
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Tangrelle

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #366 on: August 25, 2018, 09:14:14 PM »
Out of interest for people who have done it with them, do any of the plus disk characters do really well in a new game + during the main game? I know they're all really skill point heavy - like REALLY skill point heavy but I figure it might be fun to slot some of them in for a run I'm going with. I've only ever really used Mamizou though (because Cold is a rad element, she's got really nice coverage even without her gimmick and her shock debuff skill is very convenient and cheap for skill points).

I know obviously Miko and Akyuu are like wet noodles but what of characters like Tokiko, Kokoro, Koishi and I guess Shou and Futo for maingame?

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #367 on: August 25, 2018, 11:36:33 PM »
Shou has 1mp recovery and eh offensive presence. Light of Dharma and Byakuren piggy-backing is more is a little more useful earlier in the game, I guess. Futo and Kokoro should be... average, but it'll take longer than other characters for their passives to get anywhere, and their raw stats/moves are, well, average.

Tokiko's passives would actually be -more- valuable in the base game, especially her "regen hp/mp when taking damage from under 200 affinity" one, which might make her interesting, but her heal will suck and her offensive stuff is whatever so you'll want a subclass whether she's attacking or supporting. Might actually be interesting, though.

Koishi has sorta meh stats and 1 mp recovery, but unlike Shou she can self-fix the MP recov, and she can get a lot of evasion, and evasion works better in maingame. So, maybe? And lastly, based on my experience with Satori... Mamizou is probably hard to keep alive past one hit, but she can take one, at least.
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

ZoomyTsugumi

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #368 on: August 26, 2018, 01:53:33 AM »
Lmao so Hina can basically solo the 8F FOE as soon as you get there as long as you invest in some DTH preventing equipment. She's way too OP holy heck.

EDIT: Btw I must say that the Jungle Stratum is honestly such an awful part of the game to navigate. It's so boring and uninteresting and feels very much like a slogfest just to get through. Forget hating the temperature floors (which really aren't that bad), Jungle stratum takes the cake for worst stratum imo.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2018, 08:06:19 AM by ZoomyTsugumi »

Xarizzar

  • RPG fan
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #369 on: August 26, 2018, 08:45:07 AM »
Speaking of the temperature floors, that external link to pastebin.ca on the Wiki doesn't work anymore for me, so I made another guide for that stratum, though I need to go over it again to make sure everything is correct...

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #370 on: August 26, 2018, 09:09:37 AM »
Speaking of the temperature floors, that external link to pastebin.ca on the Wiki doesn't work anymore for me, so I made another guide for that stratum, though I need to go over it again to make sure everything is correct...

I have that guide saved offline, I can reupload it if necessary

IRUN

  • Sin Sack
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #371 on: August 26, 2018, 10:39:26 AM »
I must say that the Jungle Stratum is honestly such an awful part of the game to navigate. It's so boring and uninteresting and feels very much like a slogfest
Don't forget the high encounter rate.

On 16F on my Sealing Club run. The synergy between Maribel and Renko sure feels good~
I walk one step, and I?m visiting a shrine
I continue two steps, and I?m spirited away
I tread three steps, and I?m playing god
I arrive with four steps, and ****

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #372 on: August 26, 2018, 11:47:34 AM »
EDIT: Btw I must say that the Jungle Stratum is honestly such an awful part of the game to navigate. It's so boring and uninteresting and feels very much like a slogfest just to get through. Forget hating the temperature floors (which really aren't that bad), Jungle stratum takes the cake for worst stratum imo.

Totally agree. Although it's mostly just floor 7 and a bit of 8, 9 stops with the "random dead ends absolutely everywhere" gimmick and is a bit more uniform.

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #373 on: August 26, 2018, 04:54:53 PM »
Personally, I found the Fire floors much more annoying to navigate, given the amount of backtracking required to clear it all. At least, the Jungle floor is somewhat "normal", just a tad damn large. Also, iirc the Jungle floor doesn't have overly annoying enemies - like, say, the purple oozes in 14F and 15F. Though my least liked floors of all must be the "blind tunnelvision" ones from the PD :-)

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #374 on: August 27, 2018, 01:37:48 PM »
Holy crap, Suika/Kasen/Yuugi absolutely mauls me. I explored the rest of the floor but geez. I think I might be very, very behind in library levels considering they're not up to my current party's level. And it's not like that 3 million is gonna spend itself... but with the new levels I think I'll try Azure Giant again and see if I can get Mari and Renko before diving back down.

Otaku

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #375 on: August 27, 2018, 02:28:56 PM »
I've managed to get all of the enhanced bosses and almost cleared the enhanced boss rush on first try (I have yet to try again).

I wanted see if I could recruit Maribel and Renko, but I cannot seem to reach the Shredding Amnesieri. I know where it is, I just can't seem to get there (I'm sure I missed it during the maingame).

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #376 on: August 27, 2018, 03:04:52 PM »
I think I might be very, very behind in library levels considering they're not up to my current party's level.
Err... yes, that is extremely behind. XD

Although they do hit extremely hard, regardless. I had to speedkill one or two down to make it manageable. The shadow fights in general seem to be short, intense bouts; few of them have all that much hp, but they hit hard.

And yeah, Shredding Amnesieri shouldn't be a problem to reach, from what I remember o.o I thought you just kinda walk up and there it is.
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #377 on: August 27, 2018, 04:07:41 PM »
Err... yes, that is extremely behind. XD

I was wondering why I had so much money. Lmao. Now I'm high enough to literally burst down the Magatama of Darkness with Iku/Aya/Flandre/Yukari before it even gets to use a damage move. Oops.

Only have the mirror left. Then we'll see how the rest after that goes.

Otaku

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #378 on: August 27, 2018, 06:51:18 PM »
And yeah, Shredding Amnesieri shouldn't be a problem to reach, from what I remember o.o I thought you just kinda walk up and there it is.

Turns out I really did miss the entire area during maingame, but I managed to get there (somehow).

Mari and Renko, here I come!

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #379 on: August 27, 2018, 08:20:35 PM »
wtf

I tried doing Culex legit this time (lol Diva Aya the last time around... and I don't remember if I fought him with Calamity Four or not. Probably have had to if I did maingame TLB.) and uh... lol. I can't even do anything against him. How the hell are you supposed to weather all that? Buffs are worthless in the long run because of shredder, debuffs are worthless because of Dark Star. What the hell?

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #380 on: August 27, 2018, 10:33:38 PM »
wtf

I tried doing Culex legit this time (lol Diva Aya the last time around... and I don't remember if I fought him with Calamity Four or not. Probably have had to if I did maingame TLB.) and uh... lol. I can't even do anything against him. How the hell are you supposed to weather all that? Buffs are worthless in the long run because of shredder, debuffs are worthless because of Dark Star. What the hell?

Kill the wind crystal first because it can cause the most issues.

You want to leave one crystal alive and I would recommend either the fire crystal or earth crystal. If you have extremely good dps you can leave the earth crystal alive as you can paralyze it and it won't do much other than occasionally heal everything for quite a lot of health but if you aren't able to beat the guardian quickly enough due to the healing, I would suggest just leaving the fire crystal instead .It mainly uses a single target attack that seems to always hit the left slot and while it hits quite hard, you can stack enough defense and fire resistance to render it to a manageable state.

Buffs are still helpful regardless of shredder though it can get annoying if it uses it often.

Debuffs are also still helpful because the guardian only uses dark star if it has a total of -75% debuffs I think. I think the regeneration it has also counts as a turn so even if you happen to hit the debuff threshold, you may still not get hit by dark star because of the added turn reducing the inflicted debuffs.

I would also suggest to consider watching videos of the guardian of the crystals as they can provide you with a better idea of what characters you may want in your team composition or how you want to handle the fight.

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #381 on: August 27, 2018, 10:47:35 PM »
wtf

I tried doing Culex legit this time (lol Diva Aya the last time around... and I don't remember if I fought him with Calamity Four or not. Probably have had to if I did maingame TLB.) and uh... lol. I can't even do anything against him. How the hell are you supposed to weather all that? Buffs are worthless in the long run because of shredder, debuffs are worthless because of Dark Star. What the hell?

What kind of setup are you using for it? I did it without Diva Aya, so I can help out probably. Since the Wind Crystal can buff with Calming Scent (worst case scenario, Guardian will use Dark Star on its first action because of Wind Crystal's buffs), that should be the #1 target. It might be difficult to defeat it before it can act, but it's susceptible to DTH (66 resistance) and has the lowest HP and defenses of the Crystals. NTR is both the weakness of the Wind Crystal and the Guardian (along with CLD), so it's important to have a good NTR attacker for this. Water Crystal has 0 SHK resistance and Earth Crystal has 0 PAR resistance, so you can disable one or both of them. At best, you only have to deal with the Fire Crystal and the Guardian for defense. Guardian uses MYS and DRK attacks while the Fire Crystal mainly uses DEF targeting FIR attacks. Grand Master Breaker Title is one of the best pieces of defensive equipment at this point in the game, so having tanks with as much of that as you can afford would be good.

For defeating the other Crystals, the Water Crystal has high defenses but is weak to DEF/MND debuffs (weak to FIR/MYS), Earth Crystal has low DEF and is weak to WND/DRK, and the Fire Crystal has low MND and is weak to CLD/SPI. The Guardian goes berserk if it's the last enemy standing, so it should be defeated second to last. What I had done was eliminate the enemies in the order of Wind -> Water -> Earth -> Guardian -> Fire, but whatever you find to be most annoying should take priority. Probably, Fire or Earth should be last. If your buffs are removed with Shredder, you don't really have any choice but to reapply them again. As for debuffs, you can set one stat to -50% on the Guardian without it using Dark Star (it's used at 150% combined buffs or -75% combined debuffs) if that helps.

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #382 on: August 28, 2018, 12:26:21 AM »
Guardian of the Crystals' biggest weakness is that there's a window in between him summoning the crystals and them getting an action. You want to deal as much damage as possible during that window, probably using Aya, Iku and maybe even Yukari. Ideally you'll have wind crystal dead and fire and water crystals heavily injured by the time they get a turn. Wind crystal is the most dangerous because calming scent, with fire a close second because of raw damage. The Guardian goes berserk if all the crystals die, so you want to leave earth or water alive while you take him out. Earth/Water can be PAR/SHK locked into harmlessness, but they can be nasty if they do get a turn because of healing/shredder.

Guardian is probably straight-up the hardest fight in the game. I haven't made it all the way through plus disk postgame yet, but I really suspect that that remains true to the very end.

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #383 on: August 28, 2018, 12:46:26 AM »
I'd put 30f's
Spoiler:
Murakumo
as the hardest boss in the game, makes the Guardian look easy in comparison. 640f Corridor boss can also be really brutal if you're unlucky, as it's a purely random fight. I don't think it's much of an exaggeration to say that it's unwinnable in some circumstances, at least without being overleveled.

The Guardian of the Amazing Crystals is still one of the hardest bosses in the game though.

ZoomyTsugumi

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #384 on: August 28, 2018, 01:56:03 AM »
If you don't care about being challenge level you can overlevel and pump up Nitori super hard to the point where she can pretty much 3 or 4-shot the entire fight with Extending Arm lmao. That's how I did it, and the overlevelling wasn't tooooo insane, nothing I wasn't already doing just to survive in the extra floors. Just make sure you've got great buffers and a Herbalist for Herb of Awakening for the extra damage boost.

Would have zero clue how to challenge level the Guardian though, I think it's the most aggravating fight in the maingame personally. An awful end to a frustrating postgame.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2018, 01:59:17 AM by ZoomyTsugumi »

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #385 on: August 28, 2018, 07:56:17 AM »
If you don't care about being challenge level you can overlevel and pump up Nitori super hard to the point where she can pretty much 3 or 4-shot the entire fight with Extending Arm lmao. That's how I did it, and the overlevelling wasn't tooooo insane, nothing I wasn't already doing just to survive in the extra floors. Just make sure you've got great buffers and a Herbalist for Herb of Awakening for the extra damage boost.

Would have zero clue how to challenge level the Guardian though, I think it's the most aggravating fight in the maingame personally. An awful end to a frustrating postgame.

Yeah I don't care about challenge level at all, I overleveled myself for maingame post just because of how horrid it is.



This was my party last time I tried it (originally had Reisen that slot instead of Hina, hence why it looks weird with Hina and Renko next to one another). I'm considering regearing to try and just tank Dark Stars to keep the enemies debuffed (since they can't remove those outside of Guardian) to see if I can at least tank them somehow that way, I'm aware of DTHing the Wind crystal, hence why Yuyuko is in there.

I'll give it another shot right now and see what I can get out of my attempts to further adapt.

EDIT:
>saigyouji flawless nirvana misses the wind crystal
>second attempt right after doesn't DTH

s... same??
« Last Edit: August 28, 2018, 08:07:35 AM by Monothemeerp »

ZoomyTsugumi

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #386 on: August 28, 2018, 08:10:13 AM »
Extending Arm does huge damage when mega boosted by buffs, full spell level and Herb and should fairly easily take out everything weak to it in a few hits with some overinvesting. I don't think I was far over lvl 180 when it worked so you should be able to do it now or soon. If you took all the money you have saved and dump it all into Nitori's ATK that should be plenty to get through it all :V Just try and have some decently invested nukers in the elements that the non NTR weak crystals are weak to so you can kill the stragglers in decent time. Thankfully Nitori can afford to use PVM enough times to get her up to high buffs which you could also aid her in doing so with Sanae or Iku.

I stuck my Nitori with the main equip that boosts base ATK heavily in exchange for severely reducing accuracy, so it does contain some element of RNG to depend on hitting it all, but to mitigate that I used Momiji with her ACC increasing skill as my Herbalist with Instant Attack to switch in and use HoA right as Nitori was ready to go, and she didn't miss very often because of that thankfully.

Also keep in mind that I did this all without debuffing, so if you use Hina to get in some debuffs on the opponents this might go down even smoother and faster.

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #387 on: August 28, 2018, 10:14:10 AM »
I might try just that at this point out of desperation. This is frustrating. I can take out the fire crystal fairly reliably by playing it slow and spamming Kanako, and the wind crystal obviously just gets InstaDTHd, but Aya loves to randomly get tagged which slows down switching extremely hard so I can't get my attackers in at all anymore and when Reimu dies I'm basically SoL when it comes to keeping people healthy. And then you have the whole luck aspect of whether the Guardian is gonna use some rando single target attack or just wipes you with Ancient Curse. Bleh.

EDIT:

I can take out the Fire Crystal pretty reliably by now, but by the time only Earth and Water are left I just can't keep up anymore because by then someone (Aya/Sanae/Reisen) is usually dead. Maybe I just gotta hope for good attacks at this point lol.

EDIT 2:
crie







EDIT 3:



It's been... six hours...



... and all it took was putting Kasen into my party (how did I not do this before?? I'm so stupid), making Suika magically beefier and giving her Iron Mountain Charge, and changing Reisen to a strategist. Then all I had to do was DTH the Wind Crystal, take out the Water Crystal before it shreddered (albeit a little luck-based, but hell, the premise worked) with Alice (who was built for bulk yet dealt about 200k a hit), then do the same with the Fire Crystal and Kanako (same story here), then slowly wittling down the Guardian with Kanako and Suika's Iron Mountain Charge while keeping the Earth Crystal stunlocked with Kasen. Renko continued to keep everyone buffed, Reimu for healing, Reisen for occasional debuffs (I actually accidentally debuffed the Guardian too hard and had to tank one Dark Star, everyone survived it tho), and Aya came in at the end to help the team rush the Guardian as the crystal and Guardian both were one hit from death and I had killed the crystal first.

... that's enough Labyrinth for today.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2018, 02:15:56 PM by Monothemeerp »

jester147

  • Touhou, Rhythm Game, JRPG fan
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #388 on: August 30, 2018, 03:15:40 PM »
lol Culex. Arguably the hardest extra boss in the base game. Then you have to level up some more and beat the final boss ver2

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #389 on: August 30, 2018, 10:51:47 PM »
Maybe someone can help, i need help with IF 640f boss.

Spoiler:
How to deal with Akyu? She hits like a truck, and attacks heal her.
And Kokoro places debuffs on me, it's not translated but i think it's -99% ATK and MAG and i assume they are not wearing off with time. What to do with her?
And will Will of Gensokyo starts to attack me after i kill all touhou characters? Is he difficult to kill, should i prepare? I'm level 2500.