Hardest Version?

[Ai-chann]

So I was playing EoSD for the first time ever, and I must say, that version is pretty unforgiving.

What do you think is the most difficult version of Touhou?   

[NeoSere]

UFO Lunatic

SA overall though is pretty unforgiving(You died, so now you get less extra lives too!), with UFO its only the high difficulties. PoFV Lunatic Match Mode is insane, too. It never gets hit 

[Formless God]

SA is the hardest.

[Ai-chann]

I agree that SA is pretty damn tough.  That extra life thing is complete junk.  The game is probably laughing as you die. 

[LHCling]

They're all around the same difficulty for me (currently). It might because of the "skewed" amount of practice that I've had though (e.g. more on SA and UFO, less on PCB and IN).

That being said, I'm going to say that EoSD is the hardest.

[Bananamatic]

UFO.
SA is unforgivable, but everything is atleast remotely possible(and barely anything could be classed as bullshit) even on lunatic.

UFO just says fuck that and throws rapewalls from st2 on.
Cloudy Way in Purple. What the hell.

[lmagus]

Easy - PCB
Normal - SA
Hard and Lunatic - UFO

[Ai-chann]

I always though IN was easier than PCP.  But I only play on Easy right now, so I guess there's a difference.

[AlexX Unlimited]

I honestly think UFO's difficulty is overrated. Probably because its new and therefore don't have as much practice with it as much other games. I'd say SA is probably hardest of the lot.

This is going over the fact Yamame, Parsee, and Yuugi completely tear me apart on hard and lunatic far worse than Nazrin, Kogasa, and Ichirin (though rest assured they tear me apart plenty, too... the SA crew just does it worse, especially since I can't get resources anywhere near as easy in SA as UFO). Can't comment past that since I can never seem to reach the stage 4 bosses.

For easiest people keep telling me IN, but honestly, I always found PCB easier. If you can manipulate supernatural borders you effectively get free bombs pretty often (and this is someone who uses Marisa, who has horrific cherry point gain).

[Esoterica]

UFO by far, with SA in second (though I've finally gotten SA to the point where it won't completely tear me apart if I'm playing as any of the Reimu shot types (on normal)).

[Zengar Zombolt]

SoEW.
Bullshit hitbox detection is bullshit.

[AlexX Unlimited]

SoEW.
Bullshit hitbox detection is bullshit.

Wait, I think I should change my vote to this.

Its hard to collect power-ups in SoEW since they have to touch your hitbox and not your sprite, not to mention bombs don't activate the moment you hit the button...

[Garlyle]

SoEW would be worth a mention, but even on Lunatic, very few patterns are actually dangerous.

SoEW is the one game I've 1cc'd Lunatic on.  Mind you it was the remake, but that "Hard" mode is equal to SoEW's Lunatic.  The only real change gameplaywise was Focus being present and a new shot type - outside of that it was still wonky hitboxes and stuff.

EoSD is potential cruel due to huge randomness, but SA and UFO are hard as hell by design, on Hard and esp. Lunatic.
However, SA gives you lives as you go with a minimum of extra danger.  You can rack up more lives in UFO, but you'll often be putting yourself at serious risk to do so.  And even though UFO's bombs are better, you don't get as many.

[Sen]

(and this is someone who uses Marisa, who has horrific cherry point gain).

I certainly hope you're talking about MarisaB there, because MarisaA has the best Cherry gain in the game IIRC :V

I always though IN was easier than PCP.  But I only play on Easy right now, so I guess there's a difference.

In all honesty, even if you can only play on Easy, do not play IN on Easy. IN Easy has almost nothing onscreen the entire time.

It's very simple to 1cc the game, but you won't get any better. Even though it's difficult, try playing on Normal. You'll improve through IN Normal much faster than you would IN Easy. Easy Mode is meant to warm you up to the rest of the series, and IN's does not do that. The others do! By all means, play Easy on the others, but don't bother with IN Easy.


Aaaaaaaanyway, I'll go with the general consensus and say UFO on the higher difficulties. SA I think has the hardest Normal mode, but it's never really "unfair," just difficult. UFO, especially on higher difficulties, is most definitely "unfair," and EoSD's rank system can seriously screw you over.

[Zengeku]

I don't get it. How can ANYONE say that SA is harder than UFO? The only way you are going to lose an extra life in SA is if you die five times against attacks that gives life stars. If you die five times in UFO against a boss, you'll have all your power drained and only three lives left at best. And at that point you are off to harvest some more lives... which can fail as well.

SA does things a hell of a lot better in my opinion because you don't need to work for the extra lives. You just need to do well at the bosses i.e not die. In UFO you are gonna have to memorize strategies for UFO summoning and what not. And let's not forget annoying cases in which the red UFO you desperately need will flippantly fly off screen or just into a bullet hell.

Add to that the fact that UFO have absolutely RAPE spellcards as Bananamatic also mentions.
I'd say that pretty much anything Kogasa have is way too hard for a stage 2 boss. The second boss-card being absolutely unacceptable.

Ichirin have the merciless first bosscard which can and will molest you into a world of despair if you don't bomb it or get lucky and everything else she have is also very difficult. Though most Stage 3 bosses have a certain level of difficulty.

Murasa have four spellcards and three non-spells. The non-spells are okay and so are the first and second card but the third one also strikes me as absolute bullshit. If i'm not getting hit by the debris or the bullets that are spawned by the debris i'm hit by the pattern that follows onward. That attack is risk factor major. The final card is not that bad though.

Shou is an evil girl. Her laser non-spells are murderous and her spellcards are all very difficult. I'm not complaing too much about the spells though. They are okay. Aside from Vajra that is. My gripe lies with her non-spells. Aside from the 3rd one which can be quite entertaining, her non-spells are unforgiving bullshit.

Byakuren = Super hard spellcards en masse. Her first one is very difficult and it feels like it behaves differently leading me to the conclusion that its relatively easy 1 of 3 times but the rest you have to be very lucky. Her second is memorization. The third is rather managable. The fourth is easy if we compare it to the MS version but its still a hard card. SC5 is micromemorizable as far as i can see and SC6 is a spellcard i personally think to be harder than VoWG when VoWG doesn't spam walls.

Just put  it like this: SA Stage 1, 2 and 3 are a breeze. SA is easier. And much better IMO.

In all honesty, even if you can only play on Easy, do not play IN on Easy. IN Easy has almost nothing onscreen the entire time.

It's very simple to 1cc the game, but you won't get any better. Even though it's difficult, try playing on Normal. You'll improve through IN Normal much faster than you would IN Easy. Easy Mode is meant to warm you up to the rest of the series, and IN's does not do that. The others do! By all means, play Easy on the others, but don't bother with IN Easy.

I remember beating IN easy when i first touched the series using all continues. I really sucked...

[CK Crash]

SA is notorious for having a huge Easy->Normal difficulty jump, which I can attest to (I was an Easy mode player when SA came out, and I beat IN Hard and Phantasm before SA Normal).


@Zengeku
I play Normal/Hard, so if you're playing Lunatic, my opinions may not apply, but I still feel SA is harder to 1CC for the average player.

I don't get it. How can ANYONE say that SA is harder than UFO? The only way you are going to lose an extra life in SA is if you die five times against attacks that gives life stars. If you die five times in UFO against a boss, you'll have all your power drained and only three lives left at best. And at that point you are off to harvest some more lives... which can fail as well.

How is this different from SA? If you died 5 times in SA, you'd probably be even worse off unless you're at stage 6 after doing a perfect run of everything else. Yes, it is harsher with power following deaths, but you can bomb freely without using it now, so I think it is still even overall.

Add to that the fact that UFO have absolutely RAPE spellcards as Bananamatic also mentions.

Yes, some individual spellcards are harder, but at least your bombs do actual damage in UFO. At least it is possible to stockpile 8 bombs and not have to worry about your power going away when using them. In SA, when using Reimu A at least, it can take 2 bombs to clear a spell even if you manage to survive a few seconds in, and 3 of the other bombs do negligible damage if any at all. When you encounter a must-bomb card, you're left with half power at best for the rest of the boss.

If you're going for a perfect no death/no bomb run, SA may be easier, but this doesn't represent the majority of players. The UFO system does require actual effort to take advantage of, but it offers the most potential resources, which makes the task of 1CCing UFO much easier.

[Sodium]

SA Stage 1-3 are absolutely lol though. Stage 1 is hard, but it's just stage 1 where you can restart until you get it right. Stage 2 is hilarious. Stage 3 is micromemorizable, minus the last two cards where one is moderately hard, and the other is lol(some clipdeath). Stage 4's stage portion isn't that hard, and then Satori is hard. Stage 5's first half isn't too bad, then it goes to hell starting at midboss Orin. Then Stage 6 is hilarious, and Okuu gets easier as you go a long.

Basically, most of SA is actually pretty easy assuming you don't mess up.

[Tinari]

Basically, most of SA is actually pretty easy assuming you don't mess up.

Can't that logic be applied to every single Touhou game?  They're easy assuming you don't mess up?  Isn't messing up what causes people to lose?

[Esoterica]

Can't that logic be applied to every single Touhou game?  They're easy assuming you don't mess up?  Isn't messing up what causes people to lose?

If you're going to pull that angle on him, it'd apply to more games than just Touhou. :V

[Garlyle]

The UFO system does require actual effort to take advantage of, but it offers the most potential resources, which makes the task of 1CCing UFO much easier.

This would be the case, but to get anywhere near that large potential involves rushing into bullets or even enemies sometimes.  It's not just effort, but huge risk.

[Esoterica]

This would be the case, but to get anywhere near that large potential involves rushing into bullets or even enemies sometimes.  It's not just effort, but huge risk.

Not to mention, if you die trying to break a UFO open you're losing overall in the end.  A life and an option isn't worth 1-2 life fragments or a bomb/bomb fragment.

[Garlyle]

Not to mention, if you die trying to break a UFO open you're losing overall in the end.  A life and an option isn't worth 1-2 life fragments or a bomb/bomb fragment.

And this is precisely why I -can't- 1cc UFO Hard T.T

[LHCling]

Hint: Bomb to chain UFOs. You're getting a net gain of resources if you do it right.

[Garlyle]

Hint: Bomb to chain UFOs. You're getting a net gain of resources if you do it right.

I play Marisa A 8D

[Esoterica]

Hint: Bomb to chain UFOs. You're getting a net gain of resources if you do it right.

This does work, yes.  The gain just isn't significant.

[nintendonut888]

I'd say overall UFO lunatic is the hardest, but only in terms of danmaku without taking into consideration the bombing or the obscene amount of lives you can get. The game is basically EoSD on crack: EoSD has all but trivial stages but nasty bosses. UFO has stages that are definitely not trivial but nothing compared to the bosses. In terms of survival I've always found SA to be hardest.

[LHCling]

I play Marisa A 8D

I played as MarisaA and I can still do it quite proficiently.

This does work, yes.  The gain just isn't significant.

The gain is significant overall. Obviously, there are spots where you don't need to bomb at all  :V

Don't forget that the (mid-)bosses also give out fragments. And a full Extend!

[Garlyle]

I played as MarisaA and I can still do it quite proficiently.
The gain is significant overall. Obviously, there are spots where you don't need to bomb at all  :V

Don't forget that the (mid-)bosses also give out fragments. And a full Extend!

1. I would like to see this done sometime then
2. That Extend is a goddamn trap.

[Bananamatic]

I'd say overall UFO lunatic is the hardest, but only in terms of danmaku without taking into consideration the bombing or the obscene amount of lives you can get. The game is basically EoSD on crack: EoSD has all but trivial stages but nasty bosses. UFO has stages that are definitely not trivial but nothing compared to the bosses. In terms of survival I've always found SA to be hardest.

What makes SA acceptable is the 40% pacifistable stage 5 and a completely pathetic final boss.
Hell, I'm a hard player and I've almost captured all of her cards on lunatic in one run on my 20th non serious attempt. Screwed up SS because I was way too wtf and died 3 times even though I can capture it around 50% of time.

[Esoterica]

The gain is significant overall. Obviously, there are spots where you don't need to bomb at all  :V

Obviously, I'm just saying it irritates me to no end when I'm trying to get a green UFO when I'm down to my last bomb, only to have to bomb and end up destroying it before it's full. :V