東方意地奴 ~ Touhou Ijiyatsu - Monarchly Moron (Ver. 1.00e)

[Rikter]

Hooray I helped cause a massive discussion.

I'll be on #ijiatsu if you're on the Embodiment list and want to get on. No need to clutter the thread.

What if we can't access an IRC Channel?

[Maid Xan~]

What if we can't access an IRC Channel?

Cry?

[Nobu]

What if we can't access an IRC Channel?

Then post in this thread, derp. Anything of importance that ends up getting discussed in IRC will make its way to the programming/discussion thread.

[CK Crash]

So regarding Embodiments, I'm perfectly content to program unique spellcards for each one, within limits (not every single one is going to have unique bullets/gimmicks/etc), as long as someone is willing to sprite them and provide an attack description. They should only be as challenging as a PoFV Dragon attack, so that the main difficulty comes from the combination of the embodiment and stage, not the actual pattern.

[Nobu]

I think we should just drop the idea of Embodiments having spell cards now.

And I don't really think it's necessary for me to provide a list of the reasons why not, since it's pretty apparent from the past few pages of discussion alone.

[Slaves]

well, we can finish the game first, then add them in later.

or we could just come up with a few attacks that they use, and when they're summoned they use one randomly.

[Nobu]

well, we can finish the game first, then add them in later.

or we could just come up with a few attacks that they use, and when they're summoned they use one randomly.

I thought that was the purpose of the Last Words afterwards though. We should probably keep the main game free from changes once the full version is released.

Are you talking about certain embodiment specific attacks? Because my suggestion was to just treat Embodiments like UFOs that pick the character sprite/name they use randomly from a pool, but otherwise there'd be no shot difference between embodiment characters (or at least specific characters).

Unless you're talking about 'they' as embodiments in general, then yes I think the bullet patterns they'd shoot would have to be varied by the stage at least.

[CK Crash]

You know, I do have a random script thing that could be usable for the Embodiments. The boss chooses from a few different attacks and combines them into one spellcard. You could say, have each Embodiment have a set group of bullets that they use, but have the actual attack semi-randomly generated. It wouldn't be too hard to have it scale up the attack as the difficulty or stage number goes us either.

@Nobu~
You seem worried about programmer workload, but once we get some shared functions done, the main obstacle is gameplay balance, not actual coding. Really, I've made 2-3 spellcard bosses in a day or two, and this likely would be even easier.

[Helepolis]

I am seriously confused now. Weren't the embodients going to be some BIG fairy with a lifebar and maybe a warning sign to show the name when it is incoming and fires a patternized danmaku which isn't a spellcard?

[Nobu]

I am seriously confused now. Weren't the embodients going to be some BIG fairy with a lifebar and maybe a warning sign to show the name when it is incoming and fires a patternized danmaku which isn't a spellcard?

This.

OTN: I'm pretty sure we decided way back that Embodiments would definitely not have spellcards. The programmer workload is not the only reason. Let me list a few off the top of my head.

1. Thematics: Spell cards are highly personalized signature attacks, not named generic danmaku barrages. Making generic spellcards to be used between multiple Embodiments ruins this aspect of the spellcard theme.

2. Stage Flow: A good stage is an orchestrated series of events, and flows with the music. Trying to coordinate Embodiment spellcards is an additional logistics problem when trying to script the stages.

3. Necessity: Spell card-firing Embodiments are not necessary for a good Touhou-based danmaku game, but spell card firing Bosses and Midbosses are.

4. Workload: Brancing off from necessity, there are 6 bosses, 3 midbosses, and last I checked we were intending on doing four difficulties. That's likely over a hundred spellcards, which doesn't even include Extra or OMES. And we want to include more spellcards when we don't have to?


5(ry Do i really need to go on?

[CK Crash]

1. Thematics: Spell cards are highly personalized signature attacks, not named generic danmaku barrages. Making generic spellcards to be used between multiple Embodiments ruins this aspect of the spellcard theme.

Well then, let's change every time I said spellcard to noncard. It's not a big deal to me, sorry if I accidentally made it appear that way.

2. Stage Flow: A good stage is an orchestrated series of events, and flows with the music. Trying to coordinate Embodiment spellcards is an additional logistics problem when trying to script the stages.

Give each stage a set of attack patterns that match the music, and let that stage's Embodiments pick out of that set. We could even divide that set into further sections for each part of the stage, etc.

3. Necessity: Spell card-firing Embodiments are not necessary for a good Touhou-based danmaku game, but spell card firing Bosses and Midbosses are.

See response to argument 1.

4. Workload: Brancing off from necessity, there are 6 bosses, 3 midbosses, and last I checked we were intending on doing four difficulties. That's likely over a hundred spellcards, which doesn't even include Extra or OMES. And we want to include more spellcards when we don't have to?

If we end up using my randomized thing, it would take a day to do one stage's attacks at most.

[Suikama]

I am seriously confused now. Weren't the embodients going to be some BIG fairy with a lifebar and maybe a warning sign to show the name when it is incoming and fires a patternized danmaku which isn't a spellcard?

That's what I thought as well. The only "Spell Card" the embodiments should ever use is a Last Word (And making a whole bunch of Last Words isn't really hard, the most difficult part is coming up with pattern ideas)

[Nobu]

Well then, let's change every time I said spellcard to noncard. It's not a big deal to me, sorry if I accidentally made it appear that way.

Well then, we have no argument :V I am all for the Embodiments having 'non-cards'. That's pretty much implicit in the "Glorified UFO that shoots bullets" concept.

Give each stage a set of attack patterns that match the music, and let that stage's Embodiments pick out of that set. We could even divide that set into further sections for each part of the stage, etc.

It'll be really hard to make attack patterns of Embodiments match the stage by the very nature that their appearance is based on player behavior. And remember that most people will be going for embodiments because they reward the player, so we can't make the non-cards very complex or their screen-time very long. They are a random element in an otherwise systematic/scripted stage.

[Suikama]

Yo Skye do you think you can post those character sprite sheets anytime soon? I'd really like to get crackin with those sprites :3

[Mounting Jaggis]

I already sent them to Naut :V

But here you go:
http://www.mediafire.com/?jonwjtm3oww

[Suikama]

I already sent them to Naut :V

But here you go:
http://www.mediafire.com/?jonwjtm3oww

What about Zengar's sprites?

[Mounting Jaggis]

Drake already made the Alpha version of Zengar. But since you asked
http://www.mediafire.com/?z1zyt2r2edm

[ES-Anthy]

Now to redefine my character species, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onry%C5%8D

yes I am going with this there is nothing you can do to convince me otherwise

[Nobu]

Now to redefine my character species, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onry%C5%8D

yes I am going with this there is nothing you can do to convince me otherwise

I see, you're going to be a Youkai. Carry on then.  :V

[ES-Anthy]

I see, you're going to be a Youkai. Carry on then.  :V

I'm at least being a spirit still :V

[Rikter]

Now to redefine my character species, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onry%C5%8D

yes I am going with this there is nothing you can do to convince me otherwise

Makes far more sense than my selection.

[Slaves]

i'm a human because i'm cool

[Mounting Jaggis]

Which of these Rou sprite looks best?

[Hello Purvis]

i'm a human because i'm cool

Damn skippy.

[Suikama]

Which of these Rou sprite looks best?

Looks better with legs apart imo.

Arms out and folded are both okay.

[Naut]

Top left.

[Hello Purvis]

Top left.

[Mounting Jaggis]

Alright then, top left wins.

[Nobu]

Rou looks like some sort of sweet French/Irish martial artist. :V

[Suikama]

Rou looks like some sort of sweet French/Irish martial artist. :V

Looks more Russian to me. Maybe it's the hat.