東方意地奴 ~ Touhou Ijiyatsu - Monarchly Moron (Ver. 1.00e)

[Nobu]

Well, if you say so.

It will still be a while before I'll touch your character, after all. ;_;

It's ok, I understand. :3

[Drake]

big post alert?

東方 vs others

I honestly don't care what it ends up being; all sides have good reasons for it being Zenhou or Hoppou. I'm just thinking the game will definitely get more popularity if we use Touhou, unless we tag everything with Touhou anyways, which would kind of defeat the point.

embodiment list

I'm not reorganizing the stages and whatnot, it's good as it is. People shall be replaced or whatever as "needed", but I think I've found a good balance. It's not like the Embodiments all have an entire spell card or something anyways, it's just a fairly hard pattern to increase difficulty in the stages. You can decide amongst yourselves which stage to put yourself in; aside from more relevant characters to the stage I'm not going to decide this for you.

other embodiment things

I'm fairly sure I'm going to appear as an Embodiment in Extra, and maybe in one of Slaves' cards. I don't think Slaves' original intention was to include everyone with a portrait into the game, rather than them getting an Ijiyatsu self for being a cool kid and discussing the project/just because he wanted to.

Like Naut said, we can't have like every member who visits CPMC in the game; even including Embodiments wasn't the most practical idea. The main reason Embodiments is a good idea is that it can represent a good chunk of the forums, it creates an actual setting instead of random characters, and generates fanart, which is a good thing for popularity's sake. I'll add a little bit about this later.

even more character things

Same with the main list, I'm not sure if we can include so many bosses into OMES. It may be a composite boss rush, but adding in bosses willy-nilly is pretty careless. The stage is already going to be super long as it is.

translation

If we get it finished enough that we can think about working on a translation (Or actively do it as we complete things) I'll try to help, if anything for specifics that wouldn't be easy to interpret from an "outside" source. My japanese isn't poor, but it's not the greatest. Nobu should be able to help, too.

Also, it's Eastern because of the fact that Ijiyatsu is inside Gensokyo (refer to Genesis).

I didn't actually post that here, did I? We haven't technically named the world of Ijiyatsu yet IIRC, but spawned from a discussion on #ijiatsu about the game setting I put together a small "prologue" bit. And yes, it's technically beside Gensokyo. What I tried to do with this was connect lines between RL, Gensokyo, this project itself and how it came to be, while still cover up any technical faults that you could come up with like "if it's like gensokyo then why is there ocean and why does the world keep changing" and etc. Take a look at the attached image.

I'll add a little bit about this later.

Well I've been talking about it for a little bit now and I guess it doesn't matter if I say it in here. In general, some of the fanart created up to now, even though comical, is kind of bugging me. The fact that we've made what are more or less complicated self-inserts, and then making tons of fanart about them, especially the swimsuits (and yukkuri) does generate the impression that the community is fairly "terrible", in a community vs community kind of sense. Now I know that we're all a bit more mature than that (except for some???) but if we do get this out I don't really want it to be seen as a lolselfinsertshitsux game and shunned by some communities. Now of course I'm not telling you to stop with the art as I do still enjoy it (and even if I wanted to you wouldn't stop). I'm under debate with myself because in reality the fact that this is based on the forum members is the reason this project is still afloat. The self-centered nature of people like that they're directly included in it, and combined with the fanart it generates the amount of interest that got it going, and it's the reason it's still going. There's not much point in me saying this, it's just something I wanted to say, sorry.

NOW THEN

[Dizzy H. "Muffin" Muffin]

... that story is splendid~. It is on AWESOME-FIRE.

[Chaore]

:V

You've a substantial amount of planning for this, Haven't you? You're treating it incredibly professional, I'm mildly impressed.

[♛ Apher-Forte]

fuck yes:

and then Drake says "let there be light, and thus idiots were born unto this world" Drake saw that all was good, and he sat and grinned to himself.

[Drake]

You've a substantial amount of planning for this, Haven't you? You're treating it incredibly professional, I'm mildly impressed.

To be embarrassingly honest I've wanted to y'know, make a game ever since I was a kid. Except obviously, I don't possess all the skills necessary to actually do something by myself. I did originally want to just contribute to music because it was a random interest, but I guess I kind of took initiative and did something :/ I never realized I had such crazy planning skills until now, really.

EDIT in reply to post below due to clutter:
I hope people don't go ahead and view me as the hardened guy who's super serious and won't have fun or whatever. My posts outside here should make it pretty obvious I'm a super laid-back guy. I'm only going into professional mode when it's really needed, because if we all intend for the project to finish then we do need some possibly-disappointing-pushing instead of happy-go-lucky-fanart-everywhere-and-not-actually-finish-the-game.

[Chaore]

To be embarrassingly honest I've wanted to y'know, make a game ever since I was a kid. Except obviously, I don't possess all the skills necessary to actually do something by myself. I did originally want to just contribute to music because it was a random interest, but I guess I kind of took initiative and did something :/ I never realized I had such crazy planning skills until now, really.

I know the feeling, Hell, I'm basing my major exactly off of that. Possibly my entire life, should things go my way. Seeing exactly where you're coming from, I've just got one piece of advice for you. Loosen up a bit, It may have just been that post, but being so professional as it stands may just end up making your head hurt a bit. That said, The game looks like it'll be fun come completion with you involved.

Edit in Return:
I'll take your word, And really it'd be immature to take such a judgment knowing so little. I do see exactly where you're coming from, and I'm completely in agreement with that. Just something I felt like adding.

[Nine West]

So basically we've been fanservice-ing ourselves too much on this? :V

if we all intend for the project to finish then we do need some possibly-disappointing-pushing instead of happy-go-lucky-fanart-everywhere-and-not-actually-finish-the-game.

And nobody should object to such a push, really.

[Dragoshi]

I won't object to such a push either, really. Then again, I really don't have much of anything in the way of involvement in this whole thing, so. >_>

[Moerin]

Eeeesh, sorry... I mean, I just wanted to show at least some support in the project... I guess I'll stop uploading my art until I can draw more than Yukkuris, then...

If it was at all possible for me to help in such a push, I'd have done so a while ago.  It's just that I can't program, or sprite, or really do anything necessary to actually make the game.  All I can really offer right now is moral support until it's time to write up my dialogue, though...

So yes, I agree that we really should get to work on the actual game.  I'm sure if we tried hard enough, we could at least have the demo finished by the next AD, right~?

[Drake]

Again, I'm not saying the art is a bad thing. Without a steady stream of interest the project might slowly die, and fanart is a primary source of interest and I do really like the art. Continue as you want, I'm still one of those self-centered people I talked about, I like having a character based on me...! Although, when this project nears completion I expect less flood of art for safety purposes :V

EDIT: holy mother releasing a demo for AD is a good idea, not only for us but for AD as well

EDIT: Random idea, if Zengar's special ability is up-close cleavage, I suggest Gpop shouldn't have any collision detection with the enemy (running into them won't kill you). Possibly while unfocused or something.

[Moerin]

A while ago I actually asked Kilga if it'd be okay to release the demo for AD, seeing how he runs the literary edition and all.  He seemed fine with it, so unless he changed his mind about it I'm pretty sure that's what we should do~

At the very least, it gives us a deadline to work to, which hopefully should encourage a bit more productivity~

[Nine West]

Judging from the fact that we already have 5 threads full of arts when Stage 1 isn't even complete yet, I can understand that fanarts have been a major driving force for the enthusiasm in this project.

Spoiler:

Though, at this rate, we'll have a hundred threads on this by the time the game is nearing completion. :V

And yes, cooperation with AD will not only gather reception, but possibly help as well.

[Nobu]

words

Thanks Drake, for providing your input, investing your time and effort into this project, and addressing  your concerns  You made a lot of good points. Just from all the characters are based off forum personalities, it would be really easy for this to be branded a big Mary Sue project. It may be inevitable, but we should try and make the game as good as we can across the board and not focusing on any one character, including (especially) our own.

I think it's important to remind people to not get too protective of their own characters and concepts and be open to suggestions (especially when it comes to revising bios). While yes, you should be involved in your own character designing process, at the same time it still needs to fit with the rest of the world somehow and not reek of "I want my character to be the COOLEST EVER BETTER THAN THE REST".  I'm not referring to anyone in particular, but i'm just cautioning on this before it becomes an issue.


Oh, and Drake, I still have  .PSD for Genesis that i've been meaning to take a look at and try revising for clarity, but I've been so busy that kinda got buried. :< Along with organizing the Ijiyatsu bios. Luckily i'll be on vacation soon, and my workload suddenly got a bit easier at school, so I'll be able to contribute more time to helping out. I'll send you a draft soon to hear your thoughts on it.

To be embarrassingly honest I've wanted to y'know, make a game ever since I was a kid. Except obviously, I don't possess all the skills necessary to actually do something by myself.

This. So hard. My fantasy job when I was younger was imagining storyboards and worlds and designing games, so this has a lot to do with my enthusiasm in trying to construct the Ijiyatsu world.



I blame it being late for me, but what is this AD people are referring to?

[FinnKaenbyou]

Reading Drake's post makes me very much wish that I had a clue how to use Danmakufu. I feel really bad having more or less set this in motion, and then other people are basically having to do the real work without me actually doing anything.

As for AD, I'd personally not go for that, because releasing it with AD means that Pooshlmer will get a hold of it. Recall that there's a reason we never mentioned this there before.

And...as much as it hurts to say, I never really expected the game to go any further than a simple joke, like all the other CPMC games that had been designed. Honestly the actual idea is rather self-centred, given the game really is pretty much 'lol self-insert'. Even assuming that the game itself is good, the odds of avoiding a Periphery of Power response from the community are roughly zero.
But what really matters to me is that people are having fun with the idea - be it by following some childhood dream and making a game, or producing the fanart that's pretty much kept the project going, or just enjoying watching it come together in general. If Ijiyatsu is making people happy, that's all that really matters in the end.

[/$0.02]

EDIT: And since Nobu asked, AD is Another Dream, basically a collection of doujin works released by the west every six months (?). They've had demos and music CDs before, so people were suggesting sending them the Ijiyatsu demo.

[Nobu]

Rou: As long as we don't make a boss whose gimmick is 'The Color Blue', I think we'll be set.  :V

But seriously, I think having Periphery of Power out there would do nothing but serve as a positive comparison, because our game would go well above and beyond that. For one, actual character sprites and cut in portraits, a workable storyline and world, and an actual game that can be played and enjoyed by other people. Sure, there will always be the detractors, but they will (theoretically) be offset by the people that are a bit more objective about the game and give us credit where credit is due. And besides, this is ultimately being produced by us and for us, so anyone else who can enjoy it too is just bonus.

If Ijiyatsu is making people happy, that's all that really matters in the end.

This, so hard.


AD is short for Another Dream, a western compilation of doujin comics and fiction that releases once every four months.
lolninjad

[Nine West]

In all honesty, I don't think a lot of people expected this game to get as much attention, support, and material to work with as it have right now. It started as a discussion about 2012 for god's sake. However, the concept arts and music that were made finally motivated people to bring more of their thoughts for the game, and the chain of fanarts alongside that skyrocketed people's interest even more. As more and more things get done, people starts to take this project seriously; up to the point where many people really do want this project to see the light of the day. For what it's worth, the discussion has been pretty fun as it is, though you can argue that this sort of outlook will simply not do for the game's own completion.

But yes, we're making a game by our own for ourselves. When we look at it that way, outsider's opinion is not that much of a great deal for the game's production itself, should this game be openly available to public. And for people as self-centered as we are, our own acceptance should come first, in matters of priority.

[Helepolis]

- CAUTION - CAUTION - CAUTION -
major post detected
- CAUTION - CAUTION - CAUTION -

I have to support Drake fully on his point of view as it is the same view I am having on Ijiyatsu at this moment. People might probably find us asses for being like this but somewhere a tough decission has to be made. Normally fan-art follows after a game is made ( or some demo atleast ) not before. Now A-F's work can be actually used perfectly as a PMiSS style artwork. I believe TranceHime was working on a spreadsheet which he showed yesterday on IRC.

To be honest ( and I am going to be extremely burned for this ) we are indeed in a too much: 'Happy-fanart-i-want-one-too-oh-that-looks-fapable' situation. As a programmer for this game I have extreme mixed opinions regarding this embodient appearings. Drake and Naut already said: A spellcard each embodient is overkill. Spellcard scripting is not just random bullets being placed. You don't know how hard it is to come up with a fitting spellcard that is in harmony with the music, the character, the background, everything.
Maybe read upon ZUN's view on spellcard in his afterwords in EoSD, PCB and IN. You will discover very interesting information.

If you want me to be really honest, I would actually prefer the embodients to either dissapear or cut extremely down to a more realistic ammount. And in both cases it will cause drama. And I remember people on IRC or here mentioning towards me: "Hele you are jealous because you are not in Ijiyatsu" or "Hele why are you not in the game!". The reason is simple: I didn't join this project to be inside the game. I joined this project because Slaves and few people asked me to help out.

Just a small message and final note: Don't you EVER forget I don't script to make one or few persons famous or "canon" in this game. I do not tolerate egoistic behaviour at all. I devode my time in this game because I want to support the MotK community. Else I wouldn't be wasting my time here now would I? Any person in this game is for me important and therefor earns the same care as any other Phantasm , Extra like boss.

That is all I wanted to say. If offence was taken, my apologies. I just thought it would be best to be straight forward here.

[♛ Apher-Forte]

>>Now A-F's work can be actually used perfectly as a PMiSS style artwork

* Akane - F cries in happiness~

[Hello Purvis]

Hope I hain't been too much a pube about suggesting stuffs. I've tried not to do that lest I got something constructive to add. =I

[Nine West]

Switching gears to 'program-serious-mood' will be hard considering the number of actual programmers out of all the participants in this project is very small.

The least fanartists could do right now is to provide enthusiasm through more fanarts and(ry

[Helepolis]

@ Purvis, I am not going to name people for that. That would be unfair at this moment and also totally unnessecary. As long as people understand and respect it.

@Nwbi There is nothing to switch. We are already busy programming the core-elements for the game such as: power system, lifebars, HUD, spellcircles, effects. But this is just preperation and general stuff which will be used over and over. I don't think the number of participants in this project is small. Let us not forget that ZUN crams everything out on his own ( ok, he takes a year to do so ). But you'll be suprised how fast things can go as long as we are provided the right material. And material I mean is generally: cutin portraits + dialogue portraits with different face expressions.

I think actually the programming crew right now is pretty solid and complete. Any more and things will be hard to divide, don't know how the others think of this. We got: ( did I forgot someone? )
- Naut
- Drake
- Sky
- Suika
- Onthenet
- Hele
- Chen (?) ( think he wanted to join or so? )

- Ninja edit -

[Nine West]

- Chen (?) ( think he wanted to join or so? )

More like him. :V

[Gappy]

Then I'll take the first step towards bettering the game ^^

I'm bowing out of being an embodiment XD

Hopefully a few other 'embodiments' will peacefully follow suit and reduce the number of embodiments to something more manageable for those doing the actual work on the game. Those who remove themselves could probably be granted some sort of compensation such as a mention in the actual storyline etc. (considering embodiments have nothing at all to do with the story, I think this is a nice tradeoff).

It's not like I'm contributing much outside of fanart anyway. Plus my initial drive was to get MotK-tan and CPMC-tan into the game (how I got myself in is a mystery to me ~_~).

If there is space, maybe my character can receive a mention as being Moerin's Yukari-like friend/advisor with a personal ulterior agenda.

My own 5 cents on the matter -
If you really do want this game to be somewhere on par with the other touhou-spinoffs, then a bit more work on the characters is in order.

a) We need a bit more diversity than 'youkai, deity, youkai, deity, and the occasional fairy' (I mean 'general youkai' like Yukari and Meirin rather than 'specific youkai' like Ichirin and Satori). I suggest introducing novel mythical creatures, maybe even western ones, for a little more flavour. Say, werewolves, lesser-dragons, minotaurs, griffins, dryads, efreets, fauns, ghouls, incubi, succubi (hey, AF's character can be a succubus, which would explain the 'manipulation of fetishes). Maybe eastern ones who have yet to receive any say in touhou, such as the phoenix, kirin, ame-onna, yuki-onna, baku, byakko, doji, etc. (for a nice list, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_legendary_creatures and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_legendary_creatures_from_Japan )

b) A bit more work on the character designs to make them more original. No offense to Slaves, whose art is, I must admit, awesome. But I recall seeing a Suwako-lookalike, a Nitori lookalike, a Koishi doppleganger, and a Tenshi ditto. We should do our best to make sure our characters don't come across as touhou ripoffs in any way. EDIT: I just realized there's a Nue-lookalike too.

c) More work on the powers. What does your character do in the world ijiyatsu? How does his/her powers support this task? Powers should reflect the world and vice-versa, I think.

My apologies if anything I said came across as critical/offensive. They are mere suggestions, nothing more. Feel free to disregard them if you please.

Also, I felt like writing last night, and I ended up starting a spinoff ijiyatsu tale. It was fun to write so I'll definitely be writing more once I find the time. Also, more fanart on the way, so expect more~

[N-Forza]

Do we really want to be affiliated with AD? The last I checked they weren't exactly looked upon favorably by the rest of the community, but then again the community doesn't seem to like anything that doesn't come directly from GLORIOUS NIPPON so I guess it doesn't matter either way.

[Helepolis]

@ N-Forza People will have some frowning upon this game as well once it is finished. So yea, Touhou fandom I guess. I prefer to do not get affiliated or associated with any exciting fan-circle group or person. 'We' as MotK is more than enough. It is not like we are going to release yearly Ijiyatsu. Are we ? =S

Then I'll take the first step towards bettering the game ^^

I'm bowing out of being an embodiment XD

Let us not make hasty decissions now. I think a discussion regarding it with more people's opinions would be better.

a) We need a bit more diversity than 'youkai, deity, youkai, deity, and the occasional fairy' (I mean 'general youkai'.

We seem to be lacking catagories because we are all based on human-youka style it seems. ( Do we have ghosts? phantoms? beasts? animals? )

b) A bit more work on the character designs to make them more original. No offense to Slaves, whose art is, I must admit, awesome. But I recall seeing a Suwako-lookalike, a Nitori lookalike, a Koishi doppleganger, and a Tenshi ditto. We should do our best to make sure our characters don't come across as touhou ripoffs in any way. EDIT: I just realized there's a Nue-lookalike too.

I think that was a bit the original idea, basing us on touhous but I have no idea exactly about this. After four threads I lost it :V

c) More work on the powers. What does your character do in the world ijiyatsu? How does his/her powers support this task? Powers should reflect the world and vice-versa, I think.

TranceHime is tackling this afaik ( correct me if  I am wrong Hime-san )

@ MTG, you make a few good points. My replies to them:

Also, I felt like writing last night, and I ended up starting a spinoff ijiyatsu tale. It was fun to write so I'll definitely be writing more once I find the time. Also, more fanart on the way, so expect more~

WuftD WuftD WuftD WuftD WuftD WuftD WuftD WuftD WuftD WuftD WuftD WuftD  !  :V ( just joking , but we should continue that as well =( it makes me little sad for seeing it stalled )

[ES-Anthy]

I guess it's time to throw my two cents into the ring, or at least make an attempt at it.

Overall I'm agreeing with the need for more variety, which is why I kinda pointed out a while ago that if I was drawn I wanted to be the evil spirit, /mimafanboyism that, and honestly if it is honestly needed I'll drop out of the embodiment list, since I'm not exactly a big forum member, and the others are more deserving. Also for the AD topic I'm not really sure if we should or not, I never really have too much of a negative view on these kinds of things.

[Hello Purvis]

I see no need to advertise Ijiyatsu outside the forums much, myself. It's for us by us, as I see it, and really wouldn't have a faction of the charm to anyone who's not somewhat familiar with Math Class.

This being said, I expect if we don't advertise it'll percolate out on its own based on its own gameplay quality, and I think that is good enough.

Edit: I claim Devi. And Archon. And don't give me no sassmouth about incompatibility.

[trancehime]

If people are pining for a translation after everything is done I would be glad to offer my services.

I've already submitted an entry to the spreadsheet that Nwbi started (no, it was not me, Hele xD).

Anyway, the race my character is, is "Tatsu," or dragon race. Not necessarily the same dragon mention in PMiSS, which is 龍, but rather, 竜.

[FinnKaenbyou]

I was worried on touching on the 'too many Embodiments' issue, but the complaints being made by the programmers are honestly pretty valid. Maybe it'd be more of an idea to make the bare-bones game first, and then afterwards work on adding characters other than the playables/bosses. At the very least, the idea of having to program all of these Embodiments in when there's nothing to work from may end up being disheartening to the programmers, while adding on to an already fully-built product will be both easier and less stressful.

As for race, I admit that I'm not sure where to go in terms of ideas. I was thinking the tsukumogami form of a writer's much-loved pencil, but is that stealing too much from Kogasa?