Maidens of the Kaleidoscope
~Hakurei Shrine~ => Help Me, Eirin! => Topic started by: Kaze_Senshi on February 11, 2013, 02:38:28 AM
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EDIT: Feel free to modify, correct mistakes or add content at the wiki page that I made (but please follow the page templates :) ). I am trying to follow the wiki's spellcards article guidelines (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki:Guidelines#Spell_Card_article_guidelines), so if possible follow these rules. Otherwise you can post anyway and I can 'fix' it later:
* Gameplay screen cropped to 384x448px;
* Use the original Japanese font with Reimu or Aya as the player;
* If you are planning to upload pics to wiki, try to name the picture this way 'Th' + {Number of the game} + 'DB' + {Any text that you want}
Example: "Th08DB-Kaguya4thNonSpell" for a picture from Kaguya's 4th non spell card attack
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Bullet_Pattern_Cheat_Defensive_Behavior
Hello guys, after asking a question in the "Miscellaneous Questions Thread 3 - Ask Question, Receive Answer" topic asking if exists some list about "defensive behaviors" from Touhou bosses to avoid spellcards safe spots, cheating or for other mysterious reason I had the idea of creating a list of these ones. ( I don't have a better name for now, so I'll use "defensive behavior" for the rest of the topic).
Basically these behaviors are defined by a state that you can trigger while trying to exploit some attack pattern safepoint or cheating spot, also sometimes these behaviors are triggered without reason, since going to the trigger point is a suicidal action.
Some examples of these behaviors:
* When you try to stay close of Kaguya in her "Buddhist Diamond" spellcard, she starts to shoot blue arrowheads;
* When you stay at the top of the screen on Marisa's "Love Storm - Starlight Typhoon" she starts to shoot very fast aimed stars;
* When you try to stay close of Keine in her "Three Sacred Treasures - Mirror "spellcard, she starts to shoot purple bullets;
So my idea is to get help from you guys to gather more information about defensive behaviors from Touhou diverse games (I think that does not matter if the game is canon or not). After this I could create a page in the wiki or a video about this. I think that this kind of list is useful to:
* Learn more about danmaku patterns;
* Learn how to/not to capture a spellcard;
* Just for curiosity's sake.
I am thinking to organize the information this way, so if you can post it following this format, please do it. Also format change suggestions are welcome:
Imperishable Night:
(http://imageshack.us/a/img818/2034/marisadefense.jpg)
* No 089: 恋風「スターライトタイフーン」 - Love Storm "Starlight Typhoon"
* Owner: Marisa Kirisame;
* Stage: 4 - Powerful;
* Difficult: Hard;
* Possible spellcard cheat comment: There are no rotating lasers at the top of the screen, so it would be easier to survive there;
* Behavior comment: Marisa's aimed little stars became faster when you try to stay at the top-part of the screen;
(http://imageshack.us/a/img833/8828/kaguyadefense.jpg)
* No 158: 神宝「プディストダイアモンド」 - Divine Treasure "Buddhist Diamond"
* Owner: Kaguya Houraisan;
* Stage: 6 - Final B
* Difficult: Hard
* Possible spellcard cheat comment: It looks more dangerous try to go to the triggering point than to stay at the bottom of the screen;
* Behavior comment: Kaguya shoots a circle of fast blue arrowheads when you try to get closer or try to stay over her.
PS: Sorry about my english mistakes :V
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In Kogasa's raining spellcard, she'll hug you if you try to move up. (Otherwise there would be huge safespots)
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Yuyuko's first non: I have always found to be bizarre, as in, was there seriously a safespot here???
(http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/1156/huhz.png)
*Yuyuko first nonspell
* Owner: Yuyuko Saigyouji
* Stage: 6
* Difficulty: Any
* Possible spellcard cheat comment: ???
* Behavior comment: Red circles or shards shot all around
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(http://i.imgur.com/6la644L.png)
* Remilia's second nonspell
* Owner: uh... Remilia Scarlet
* Stage 6
* Difficulty: Any?
* You can avoid the non-aimed waves by going over her head. I guess this is supposed to punish you for staying there too long. Maybe? I guess it could stop you from trying to supergraze it too. I don't know what high level score runs do here though so I'm not sure.
* If you're near Remila when she fires the aimed waves, she'll shoot some extra bullets in random directions. It doesn't always happen though. It may have something to do with elevation rather than how close you are to her.
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(http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/9233/huuuh.png)
* Both Tewi nonspells
* Owner: Tewi Inaba
* Stage: 5
* Difficult: Any
* Possible spellcard cheat comment: Shard waves spawn pretty far away from the boss.
* Behavior comment: Extra waves thrown in that are closer this time (it's still possible to dodge through if you're lucky).
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I know that Mystia does that too on her last two cards if you go up enough.
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(http://i.imgur.com/QO0oCOH.png)
*Wound Sign "Pain Flow"
*Owner: Kagiyama Hina
*Stage 2
*Difficulty: Easy/Normal
*Circling Hina along with the spiral bullet pattern would make it possible to cheese the attack.
*Behavior comment: She fires roughly aimed pellets to give you a difficult time doing so, basically turning the spell into it's hard/lunatic equivalent.
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(http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/5622/hbds.png)
* No 71-74 境界「二重弾幕結界」 Boundary "Duplex Danmaku Barrier" / 大結界「博麗弾幕結界」 Great Barrier "Hakurei Danmaku Barrier"
* Owner: Reimu Hakurei
* Stage: 4 Uncanny
* Difficulty: Any
* Possible spellcard cheat comment: Not sure about this one again. I don't see how being close to Reimu would help, especially since she's always moving.
* Behavior comment: Get close to Reimu and she shotguns 5 amulets at you.
Here's the Mystia ones.
(http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/7270/hust2k.png)
* No 22-25 鷹符「イルスタードダイブ」 Hawk Sign "Ill-Starred Dive"
* Owner: Mystia Lorelei
* Stage: 2
* Difficulty: Any
* Possible spellcard cheat comment: Being close to Mystia gives you a lot of room. Hilariously, after dodging her proximity waves you can stay up there all you like. Further, if you only get close to Mystia well after the card starts she won't shoot these extra waves at all.
* Behavior comment: Shoots 4 waves of aimed bullets if you start out to close to her.
(http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/2889/huust2.png)
* No 26-29 夜盲「夜雀の歌」 Night-Blindness "Song of the Night Sparrow"
* Owner: Mystia Lorelei
* Stage: 2
* Difficulty: Any
* Possible spellcard cheat comment: Probably same as the previous card.
* Behavior comment: Shotguns large circle bullet waves if you're too close. This one is rather odd. It seems the first two waves are aimed at you, then the rest are possibly aimed at random.
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An interesting thing about Keine's Sacred Treasures: Easy - Hard work the same way but vary slightly in colour/ number of waves, but on Lunatic it only happens if you are close by at the start of the card, and never again after that.
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(http://i.imgur.com/wcY6XEw.png)
*No. 034: 回復「ヒールバイデザイア」 Recovery "Heal By Desire"
*Miyako Yoshika
*Stage 3
*Difficulty: Easy/Normal
*Possible spellcard cheat comment: The possibility of hugging Yoshika could make streaming the bullets easier in some situations.
*Behavior comment: If you come too close to Yoshika she will fire a ring of jellybeans, much like in the hard/lunatic equivalent of this card.
(http://i.imgur.com/uKDXCuD.png)
*Orin's opener
*Kaenbyou Rin
*Stage 5
*Difficulty: Any
* Possible spellcard cheat comment: By sitting on Orin's head you can prevent the spiral of blue pellets from spawning.
* Behavior comment: If you don't get close enough she spawns about twice as many pellets instead, so use with caution and position yourself during the dialogue.
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(http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/6186/hunonspell.png)
* Kaguya's 4th nonspell
* Owner: Kaguya Houraisan
* Stage: 6
* Difficulty: Any
* Possible spellcard cheat comment: Possibly hugging the boss is safe.
* Behavior comment: Fills the screen if you sit on her.
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There's one I know, but I sadly can't manage to screenshot it correctly. Darn.
* Futo's Nice Boat Spell
* Owner: Moe Hermit Futo
* Stage: 5
* Difficulty: Any
* Possible spellcard cheat comment: Getting on top of her makes the whole spellcard way easier as it prevents the "water" from raining on you.
* Behavior comment: She'll quickly go higher, in less than one or two boat slides across the screen, and will take a while to go back to her normal position. She practically tries to ram you in.
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(http://i.imgur.com/CEqeOYc.png?1)
* No. 04: 氷符「アイシクルフォール」 - Ice Sign "Icicle Fall"
* Owner: Cirno;
* Stage: 2;
* Difficulty: Normal;
* Possible spellcard cheat comment: Standing directly in front of Cirno and tapping to the side every time the yellow bullets are fired;
* Behavior comment: If you come close enough, the firing rate of the aimed yellow bullets will roughly double;
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* No. 04: 氷符「アイシクルフォール」 - Ice Sign "Icicle Fall"
* Owner: Cirno;
* Stage: 2;
* Difficulty: Normal;
* Possible spellcard cheat comment: Standing directly in front of Cirno and tapping to the side every time the yellow bullets are fired;
* Behavior comment: If you come close enough, the firing rate of the aimed yellow bullets will roughly double;
Too bad there's a safespot on her shoulder :V
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Embodiment of Scarlet Devil:
(http://oi46.tinypic.com/2ch9yrp.jpg)
* No. 18: 土符「レイジィトリリトン」 - Earth Sign "Rage Trilithon"
* Owner: Patchouli Knowledge;
* Stage: 4 - Marisa-B;
* Difficult: Easy/Normal;
* Possible spellcard cheat comment: It would be safe above Patchouli;
* Behavior comment: Patchouli shoots double 7 bullet waves at you when attempting to stay at top-part of the screen;
This might be similar for all versions of rage trilithion. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9884.msg755248.html#msg755248) Also it might be useful for scoring, but i have never seen anyone take advantage of it. I think this anti-safespot behaviour should be tested for a safespot too.
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Embodiment of Scarlet Devil:
(http://oi46.tinypic.com/2ch9yrp.jpg)
* No. 18: 土符「レイジィトリリトン」 - Earth Sign "Rage Trilithon"
* Owner: Patchouli Knowledge;
* Stage: 4 - Marisa-B;
* Difficult: Easy/Normal;
* Possible spellcard cheat comment: It would be safe above Patchouli;
* Behavior comment: Patchouli shoots double 7 bullet waves at you when attempting to stay at top-part of the screen;
This might be similar for all versions of rage trilithion. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9884.msg755248.html#msg755248) Also it might be useful for scoring, but i have never seen anyone take advantage of it. I think this anti-safespot behaviour should be tested for a safespot too.
That's cool, I've never seen that before. So, can you stream it across the top of the screen to graze it? If it can be spawn point grazed it would probably be useful.
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That's cool, I've never seen that before. So, can you stream it across the top of the screen to graze it? If it can be spawn point grazed it would probably be useful.
I tried it a few times, but wasn't able to get past Patchouli alive on easy mode while streaming. It seemed possible though.
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Yay a lot of pics to increase the list \o\
I made a wiki page and a behavior description template, so please take a look at the first post that I modified. If you have some suggestion about the descriptions template or page titles talk now, it is easier to change the things at the beginning than later. Also my english isn't sooo good so plz fix my mistakes ;)
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I believe the one about Buddhist Diamond applies to all difficulties for that spell. I think I've seen it happen outside of Hard before.
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Hmmm really I think that the one about Buddhist Diamond applies to all difficulties but I made the templates for a single spellcard per description and this spellcard has different names for different difficulties. Later I'll try to list it for each different spellcard name, maybe join the ones with simillar names and list their difficult.
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Shameless bump to request an english/content review of the wiki pages :V I think that I posted there all defensive behaviors that you indicated here in this topic. Also anybody knows any defensive behavior from Touhou 9, 12 or from the PC-98 series?
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UFO, Kogasa's 2nd card. Try going above her, see what happens.
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UFO, Kogasa's 2nd card. Try going above her, see what happens.
Hahaha. Oh wow. I'll submit that.
(http://i.imgur.com/iXOmxy9.png)
* Kogasa's 2nd Spell Card
* Card Name: 雨符「雨夜の怪談」 Rain Sign "A Rainy Night's Ghost Story"
* Owner: Kogasa Tatara
* Stage: 2; Boss
* Difficulty: Easy/Normal; Assuming the same for Hard/Lunatic as well.
* Possible spellcard cheat comment: It would be safer above Kogasa.
* Behavior comment: She starts to follow/ram you. Goes back to middle and tries again as long as you remain above her. Rain drops will spawn on you....
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Rain drops will spawn on you....
I've only played the demo, but I've had this happen WITHOUT trying to go above her...It's been rare, but I HAVE had it occur. Don't know if it's different in the full game since I don't own it.
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UFO, Kogasa's 2nd card. Try going above her, see what happens.
Rage Kogasa mode on :V
Hahaha. Oh wow. I'll submit that.
(http://i.imgur.com/iXOmxy9.png)
* Kogasa's 2nd Spell Card
* Card Name: 雨符「雨夜の怪談」 Rain Sign "A Rainy Night's Ghost Story"
* Owner: Kogasa Tatara
* Stage: 2; Boss
* Difficulty: Easy/Normal; Assuming the same for Hard/Lunatic as well.
* Possible spellcard cheat comment: It would be safer above Kogasa.
* Behavior comment: She starts to follow/ram you. Goes back to middle and tries again as long as you remain above her. Rain drops will spawn on you....
Oops sorry, I have already submitted this one in the wiki (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Bullet_Pattern_Cheat_Defensive_Behavior/Undefined_Fantastic_Object), anyway thanks . After I'll check about this "Rain drops will spawn on you...." :V
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orz
I can never do anything right.
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Futo's spell has messed up formatting on the wiki page.
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Futo's spell has messed up formatting on the wiki page.
OMG page vandalism halp me
Someone accidentally deleted a pair of closing curly brackets when editing the page to add it to the "Strategy" category. It is fixed now ;)
orz
I can never do anything right.
Believe in yourself :V
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Kogasas ramming behaviour that is initiated by being above her also applies to her last spell on normal mode. Didn't test anything else, i'm sure someone will.
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Rain drops spawn randomly inside the bubble around Kogasa. I don't think they should ever spawn outside the bubble even if you're standing above her.
On hard and lunatic she might do the same thing but it's kind of dumb because she fires bullets in all directions so you're hardly exploiting a safespot by being there.
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Kogasas ramming behaviour that is initiated by being above her also applies to her last spell on normal mode. Didn't test anything else, i'm sure someone will.
I tested it here, its info is already on the UFO page ;)
Rain drops spawn randomly inside the bubble around Kogasa. I don't think they should ever spawn outside the bubble even if you're standing above her.
On hard and lunatic she might do the same thing but it's kind of dumb because she fires bullets in all directions so you're hardly exploiting a safespot by being there.
I was about to say this too.
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I know Kogasa has tried to ram me during her raindrop spell on Lunatic before. It gets triggered if I'm bombing it with SanaeB (as SanaeB, overlapping a boss and unfocusing does more damage, so that's what I do while bombing).
And I think the raindrops might only spawn on the edge of the bubble, not anywhere inside it.
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I just saw Stradivarius mentioned just now and I realised I'd never even seen this attack on hard, so I tried it out and found this one. It might be worth noting this behaviour is still present, but slightly different on the other difficulties (I only tested easy and it gave me a different kind of defensive shot) although from what I can tell it isn't necessary on anything but hard mode since this attack changes so drastically between difficulties.
I think I'll go ahead and add this to the wiki myself, although I guess I'll add it here too anyway. If it's worth adding the other difficulty behaviours since they seem to be different to the rings on hard mode i can add them too. I still haven't seen the normal/lunatic cards yet.
(http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/2159/th07dblunasahard.png)
* No 51 神弦「ストラディヴァリウス」 Spirit Strings "Stradivarius"
* Owner: Lunasa Prismriver
* Stage: 4
* Difficulty: Hard
* Possible spellcard cheat comment: The attack is designed to give little time to react so bullets are spawning close to the bottom of the screen far away from Lunasa.
* Behavior comment: Fires rings of bullets when you get too close.
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Well I think that it's worth to add the other difficult behaviors only if they really change in different difficult modes (not only the bullet density/speed, because this is supposed to change normally). For example in the IN page I posted all spellcards from Keine's three treasures because the color change and the spellcards itself are different.
And thank you for adding it to the wiki following the spellcard guidelines :)
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Okay, I put easy/normal together because the cards are exactly the same and the type of shot is also the same. Added Lunatic separately, it does the same thing as hard but the spell itself is very changed.
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(http://i1279.photobucket.com/albums/y538/Bang_Jan/nocheating_zps9467f392.png)
* Kasumi's midboss, first and second nonspells
* Owner: Kasumi Shindou
* Stage: 4
* Difficulty: Any
* Possible spellcard cheat comment: It would be safe at the top of the screen
* Behavior comment: She shoots upwards.
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Hmmm I saw one behavior like this one in Touhou 9.5 at the spellcard 8-6. Kaguya starts to shoot the yellow lines upwards when you try to stay at the top of the screen, but I thought that it was pretty simple because it's like an one-dimension streaming shoot so I didn't included it on the wiki pages. Now I am starting to think that it can be classified as a Defensive Behavior too, what do you guys think about these kind of spellcards?
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I wouldn't classify it as defensive behavior. the yellow lines are aimed, so it's no surprise she shots them upwards when you go above her. the same goes for kasumi. as messy as it looks, that whole thing is aimed.
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Can we not have fan games
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The walls in Seamless Ceiling aren't really aimed. They just fall straight down. I assume it must've been specifically programmed to shoot up if you go above her, so I'd say that counts.
But yeah, let's not include fan games.
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Why we shouldn't include fan games? There are some good fan games that are pretty popular with good stages and creative patterns, also in the end these games will be in a different session at the wiki, separated from the canonic ones.
The walls in Seamless Ceiling aren't really aimed. They just fall straight down. I assume it must've been specifically programmed to shoot up if you go above her, so I'd say that counts.
Good argument, programming effort.
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In that case, it'd be worth also including Flying Insect's Nest (Satori ReimuA). The lasers shoot upward if you're above their spawn points.
I think there are more examples of that, though I can't think of any right now.
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Why we shouldn't include fan games? There are some good fan games that are pretty popular with good stages and creative patterns, also in the end these games will be in a different session at the wiki, separated from the canonic ones.
Well, it's a lot to keep track of, hard to verify things, and it's not clear where the line between good fan games and bad fan games should be drawn in the first place. Then even just a single game can have different versions. Like Marine Benefit for instance. There have been a number of versions of that game, with safespots being removed, patterns being replaced, etc. And patterns from fan games are probably not going to be what most people where looking for anyway. But if they've got their own section then I guess it's ok. I'm not really familiar with how the wiki generally deals with fan games or anything anyway, so never mind what I said.
I think there are more examples of that, though I can't think of any right now.
I think Gengetsu's first pattern might actually do something like that. It was a while ago when I tried it though, and I might have been imagining it.
Oh, and Hanako-san in the Toilet, iirc.
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Well, it's a lot to keep track of, hard to verify things, and it's not clear where the line between good fan games and bad fan games should be drawn in the first place. Then even just a single game can have different versions. Like Marine Benefit for instance. There have been a number of versions of that game, with safespots being removed, patterns being replaced, etc. And patterns from fan games are probably not going to be what most people where looking for anyway.
CtC and SA Phantasm are on that list, you know. But yes, only established games should be logged (i.e, not prone to change).
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Well when I have time I'll put the following spellcards on wiki list:
* Kaguya's 8-6 spellcard from StB;
* Satori's Kaguya copy spellcard from DS;
* Shindou's spellcard;
* Satori's Flying Insect's Nest ;
Also I'll let the fangames section on wiki with some "established" games (MB and CtC for while). Maybe I'll add a disclaimer talking that the game can change with the time, anyway it is an open page and anyone can fix something that become invalid with a new game update.
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The name is clunky as hell. I'd suggest changing it to "Anti-Safespotting Attacks" but idk if that's possible in a wiki format.
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Before starting to edit the wiki I suggested this name and waited sometime for someone else's opinion. Since anyone complained about it I let this name. Now I think that it's too late to change it, sorry :ohdear:
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I thought the long name was part of the joke.
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I thought the long name was part of the joke.
Well I chose that long name because I wanted to make a generic concept, you can apply it for spellcards, non-spellcards and any other kind of bullet pattern attack. If you don't want to type the whole name you can just call it Defensive Behavior or DB :V
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DDC stage2 2nd boss spellcard where multiple heads shoot lazers at you. Getting close to the boss makes her shoot dense pink rings.
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Oh that is true :) but I'll wait for the game's final version until posting new things in the wiki. The game contents may change with the final version.
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Well sorry for the bump but I think that this is the right place to post it instead of creating a new post...
DDC stage2 2nd boss spellcard where multiple heads shoot lazers at you. Getting close to the boss makes her shoot dense pink rings.
So I confirmed this behavior on th14 version 1.00b. If someone finds something like this one please show it for me :)
Also it seems that the layout is a bit broken :( Later I'll update the wiki and try to fix it.
[attach=1]
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I've seen the wiki entry you are making for this...
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Bullet_Pattern_Cheat_Defensive_Behavior
This behavior is called ペナルティ弾 "penalty bullets" in the Japanese fandom, and 护身弹 "self-defense bullets" in the Chinese fandom. A similarly pithy name would be better.
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I've been referring to Sekibanki's as "proximity bullets". Though not all of the examples in this thread are from being within a certain distance of the boss.
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I've seen the wiki entry you are making for this...
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Bullet_Pattern_Cheat_Defensive_Behavior
This behavior is called ペナルティ弾 "penalty bullets" in the Japanese fandom, and 护身弹 "self-defense bullets" in the Chinese fandom. A similarly pithy name would be better.
Oh, they chose a good name but Yoshika and Futo use their bodies instead of use bullets to punish the player :V
Anyway I can change that long name for one of these that you said but I think that I'll need to talk with some admin to do this. What name do you guys prefer?
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Only spellcards allowed?
DDC Stage6 final boss nospell#2 second phase. Bullets start falling upwards towards players side if player is high enough. Replay of the exact behaviour. (http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=30156)
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Non-spellcards are allowed too but this case I don't think that it can be categorized as a Defensive Behavior. For me it looks like Suwako's first spellcard where you can misdirect some bullets by staying on the top of the screen for some seconds, it looks like a glitch.
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It's not a glitch, the second phase is all aimed from the start in a peculiar fashion (and it doesn't get "stuck" like Suwako's first spell either). I wouldn't categorize it as defensive behavior either, as it is just another perfectly viable safespot/supergraze.
Here's a demo on how to do it on lunatic (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NG7xwEtPggA)