Author Topic: "Toho Project" on NHK World's "Imagine-Nation" program!  (Read 31129 times)

N-Forza

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"Toho Project" on NHK World's "Imagine-Nation" program!
« on: January 05, 2015, 01:18:29 PM »
Looks like ZUN's going to be on TV again, and this time we won't need fansubs!

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/english/tv/imagine/

It'll air on Tuesday 3:30 pm (UTC), so if you get the NHK World channel, be sure to watch! Looks like it'll contain a good bit of up-to-date footage, including stuff from the Digital Game Expo a few months ago.

UPDATE2 by cuc:

High-quality recording of the program:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLqQBkhFh80

Transcript by persceaux (tohosubs):
http://pastebin.com/QpR9qUqM


UPDATE1:
The show will be repeated for 3 more times. Schedule of the show's run (UTC):
Jan 6 Tue: 15:30 - 15:58
Jan 6 Tue: 21:30 - 21:58
Jan 7 Wed: 03:30 - 03:58
Jan 7 Wed: 09:30 - 09:58

Availability of the NHK World TV channel can be found at wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NHK_World

A low-bitrate free online stream of the channel can be watched here:
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/w/movie/

The channel can also be watched using apps for iOS and Android. In fact since the channel is generally not available in Japan, this is how most people in Japan are expected to watch it:
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/app/info/index_en.html
« Last Edit: January 11, 2015, 03:31:13 AM by cuc »

game2011

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Re: "Toho Project" on NHK World's "Imagine-Nation" program!
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2015, 01:49:05 PM »
So... any comments on "youkai" being called "monsters" there?  Wonder if I should switch to using "monsters" instead of "demons" from now on...
« Last Edit: January 05, 2015, 01:50:54 PM by game2011 »

cuc

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Re: "Toho Project" on NHK World's "Imagine-Nation" program!
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2015, 02:20:13 PM »
I'm still figuring this NHK World thing out, but if the whole program's English quality is on the same level as their website and this trailer, we may need subs nonetheless.

So... any comments on "youkai" being called "monsters" there?  Wonder if I should switch to using "monsters" instead of "demons" from now on...
Because hack translators whose only exposure to English seem to be their English textbooks.

Not to mention this piece of common sense: translating any specific areas of expertise requires research and preparation on the translator's part, which cannot always be guaranteed with TV station subs.

Also are you from a Christian background? I do think calling youkai 'monsters' is at least better than "demons'. But my suggestion is to use two words, "folkloric creatures".
« Last Edit: January 05, 2015, 03:54:14 PM by cuc »
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game2011

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Re: "Toho Project" on NHK World's "Imagine-Nation" program!
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2015, 02:37:04 PM »
Also are you from a Christian background? I do think calling youkai 'monsters' is at least better than "demons'. But my suggestion is to use two words, "folkloric creatures".
Yeah, I'm a Christian, so I am aware of what "demon" means to us.  Even so, I have no issues with using that term as a translation for "youkai," since seeing it used in various English dubs and localizations convinced me that it's as official as you can get.

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Re: "Toho Project" on NHK World's "Imagine-Nation" program!
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2015, 04:33:00 PM »
Would it be tolerable if people used the word "cryptid"? Most of the cast are these in the sense of "creatures not recognized by science", but the word implies more a "scientific" perspective. However, the premise of touhou is fighting mythological beings that are given the body of a loli strong woman of variable proportions and fancy fashion sense, so monster/demon/cryptid isn't exactly correct in first place, depending on your view.

cuc

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Re: "Toho Project" on NHK World's "Imagine-Nation" program!
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2015, 04:40:23 PM »
Important points after some investigation:

The show will be repeated for 3 more times on the same day, with the schedule given on the website.

The availability of the NHK World TV channel can be found at wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NHK_World

There is a free online stream, at what seems to be 480p:
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/w/movie

Things start to get unfunny when you realize that since it's an English-language channel for a foreign audience, most people in Japan have no decent way to watch it in anything near its original 1080p format.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2015, 05:35:55 PM by cuc »
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Tengukami

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Re: "Toho Project" on NHK World's "Imagine-Nation" program!
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2015, 04:48:56 PM »
Would it be tolerable if people used the word "cryptid"? Most of the cast are these in the sense of "creatures not recognized by science", but the word implies more a "scientific" perspective. However, the premise of touhou is fighting mythological beings that are given the body of a woman of variable proportions and fancy fashion sense, so monster/demon/cryptid isn't exactly correct in first place, depending on your view.

Eh, I think this is like re-inventing the wheel. "Mythological beings" or "folkloric creatures", as cuc put it, is a fine descriptor that no one needs to look up while at the same time being pretty accurate, too.

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

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Re: "Toho Project" on NHK World's "Imagine-Nation" program!
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2015, 05:08:15 PM »
Maybe i'll be able to follow the stream, since with that trap i call TV is already a miracle if i can see national channels >_>
Personally, i always use the word Youkai for Touhou because in my mind youkai, demon and monster are 3 slightly different things:

Youkai = folkloristic supernatural creature, especially if coming from oriental cultures

Demon = supernatural EVIL creature

Monster = generic creature with unnatural physical traits :V

(yes, Christian background for me too)

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Re: "Toho Project" on NHK World's "Imagine-Nation" program!
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2015, 05:12:10 PM »
Damn it timezones. I wonder if I can watch this tomorrow.

Suspicious person

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Re: "Toho Project" on NHK World's "Imagine-Nation" program!
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2015, 06:40:18 PM »
Please be more than  "about a priestess going around killing various monsters"  :(

Helepolis

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Re: "Toho Project" on NHK World's "Imagine-Nation" program!
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2015, 10:07:14 PM »
No wait, 15:30 UTC means I will be at work. So perhaps I can view the stream though without any sound. Hope they repeat it in the evening hours as well (UTC > 18:00 or so)

Razzi Zadhna

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Re: "Toho Project" on NHK World's "Imagine-Nation" program!
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2015, 10:15:36 PM »
Would it be tolerable if people used the word "cryptid"? Most of the cast are these in the sense of "creatures not recognized by science", but the word implies more a "scientific" perspective. However, the premise of touhou is fighting mythological beings that are given the body of a loli strong woman of variable proportions and fancy fashion sense, so monster/demon/cryptid isn't exactly correct in first place, depending on your view.

I personally like using "Fae" or "Fair Folk" but that's probably not the best because it makes people think of fairies even though the word can refer to any mythical creature like "youkai" does.

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Re: "Toho Project" on NHK World's "Imagine-Nation" program!
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2015, 01:36:47 AM »
I hope someone can record the entire content and archive it.  Aside from the description of "priestess killing various monsters", the behind-the-production footage part looks very promising.

cuc

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Re: "Toho Project" on NHK World's "Imagine-Nation" program!
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2015, 02:48:55 AM »
Added info to the OP. Yeah, people in Japan are totally expected to watch the channel using an iOS/Android app:
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/app/info/index_en.html

The fandom now needs someone with good access to the channel, and good methods for recording (and encoding for archival) a 1080i TV signal.


Also these are what a friend of mine sees when watching the trailer:

Logitech K310 waterproof keyboard, keeping ZUN free from the worry of spilling beer while programming:


The good old MIDI keyboard Yamaha CBX-K2, which also appeared in the MAG.NET interview, from back when he was living in Ebina:


A relatively expensive WACOM Cintiq Companion tablet, likely the Windows 8 512GB version.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2015, 03:56:33 AM by cuc »
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Re: "Toho Project" on NHK World's "Imagine-Nation" program!
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2015, 03:33:03 AM »
When you're talking to people who know nothing about Touhou, I have no problem with "monsters" if you're trying to give a quick summary/introduction.

But yeah, for a show/channel ostensibly for overseas audiences, NHK (and Japan in general) is pretty behind the curve in accessibility.

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Re: "Toho Project" on NHK World's "Imagine-Nation" program!
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2015, 12:18:03 PM »
Thanks for the schedule description. Awesome, tonight around 21:30 huh! All right!

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Re: "Toho Project" on NHK World's "Imagine-Nation" program!
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2015, 12:28:20 PM »
Oh! I might watch this too. Anything for a new nosy around ZUN's office. (Assuming I don't fall asleep the instant I get home).

Re: "Toho Project" on NHK World's "Imagine-Nation" program!
« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2015, 01:28:50 PM »
Thanks for the heads up! The first airing's in about 2 hours from now.

Re: "Toho Project" on NHK World's "Imagine-Nation" program!
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2015, 01:30:17 PM »
So, repeat in two hours?

And, you have nothing better to discuss than how they dared to translate "youkai"?

Tengukami

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Re: "Toho Project" on NHK World's "Imagine-Nation" program!
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2015, 01:42:26 PM »
And, you have nothing better to discuss than how they dared to translate "youkai"?

What. No one is discussing how NHK translated youkai. Some people are talking about how to localize youkai, which may or may not be a derail, but is demonstrably not the only topic of conversation in this thread.

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hungrybookworm

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Re: "Toho Project" on NHK World's "Imagine-Nation" program!
« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2015, 03:58:50 PM »
That was hilarious. Absolutely wonderful.

Worth it for the bits in ZUN's office. But if you guys were upset by the youkai = monsters thing, oh boy. Ohhhh boy...!

Suspicious person

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Re: "Toho Project" on NHK World's "Imagine-Nation" program!
« Reply #21 on: January 06, 2015, 04:44:14 PM »
Holy sh*t, this turned out way better than I expected

Anyway, here's how they covered things in a nutshell for the people who were too busy or couldn't watch this little program (this might not be accurate, tough)
-Started with introducing Touhou as a shooting game and how far it goes back
-Showed some parts of touhou back at Digital Game Expo (and interviewed some fans there)
-Touhou x PS4 and Vita, nuff said
-Talked about Reimu, about who she is and what she does ("etc etc shaman girl etc etc AND SHE BEAT MONSTTTEEEERS!!! etc etc")
-Showed some parts of a Touhou-filled convention and a brief introduction (neither in depth nor exhaustive but still good) to the fanworks/ fanculture
-Interview with ZUN (who also shows that he is boss at his own game) and show the process of making a Touhou game
-Showed some gameplay footage of DDC and ISC (lol @ player with zero lives against Wakasagihime), showed off some characters (DID THE COMMENTER SERIOUSLY SAID "(...)and this one is a danmaku ghost who (...)" IN THAT ISC FOOTAGE???)
-ZUNterview keeps going, goes in depth with how he make sure to giving everything a sense of unity, how he makes the music, the characters and... you get the idea
-Talked about the Touhou x PS4 and Vita again (it's for this year?)
-Played a bit of ISC's day 1
-Programs change topic

And guess what??? "blah blah Touhou is going to be localised blah blah English blah blah" (If I heard right)

Anyway, this was a decent coverage at worst. Their knowledge of Touhou universe seems pretty shallow (AND SHE IS GONNA BEAT MOOONNNNSTTTEEEERS!!!), but the explanation of Touhou settings were done by ZUN, who managed to sum things up in a clear and simple fashion.

It was not bad, and I hope futures coverages of Touhou would be at least as acceptable as this one. It would be good if this managed to stir some people's interest in Touhou. With all that said I hope 2015 will be as rich as 2013 for Touhou, and may ZUN's liver hold long enough to keep the fantasy going  :V

Also, did anyone record this?

ふねん1

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Re: "Toho Project" on NHK World's "Imagine-Nation" program!
« Reply #22 on: January 06, 2015, 05:13:52 PM »
Yeah, some of their terminology and understanding of the game world was off, but even if someone got into Touhou through this program, it's nothing that couldn't be fixed through talking with the rest of the community. I otherwise liked it - acknowledging Touhou's widespread popularity, some glimpses into ZUN's work process that some might not know if they can't read Japanese articles about it, etc.

I also noticed how some of the characters were referred to as "he", which I suspect was merely a weird byproduct from translation. But then I thought, is Seija taking advantage of her time on NHK World to work her magic again? :V
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Re: "Toho Project" on NHK World's "Imagine-Nation" program!
« Reply #23 on: January 06, 2015, 09:55:23 PM »
I just listened to the entire interview and especially ZUN's words more in particular about design and game play. For the danmakufu creators among it is perhaps interesting to note but also for the players.

Unity or harmony as I would call it personally is indeed what ZUN has been depicting in his games a lot. He mentioned for example that "Syncing events to the music" is something he focusses on. There tons of examples where this happens if you just listen more carefully while also looking carefully. I find this quite charming.

He also mentioned that he first composes the music THEN actually starts constructing everything around it. I assume he has a certain theme or idea in his head but music amplifies this and makes it easier to create the actual thing. I'm personally also working on my danmaku game for while now and this is exactly the approach I did naturally. Without a solid stage song or boss song, I cannot imagine or design the stages or spell cards proper. The music has to fit from the beginning until the end amplifying that feeling.

Conversations with the characters is also quite interesting to note for me, especially as I am also typing the dialogues. Why not try to re-read the dialogues of your favourite game again on the Touhou wiki and pay attention to their tone and words. My personal favourite is for example Imperishable Night because the girls are paired and they synchronize pretty well with their attitudes .

So yea, to be honest I was quite pleased about this broadcast and ZUN's mini interview. It gave me some more insight and motivation that the current design path I am taking is the correct one.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2015, 10:01:12 PM by Helepolis »

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Re: "Toho Project" on NHK World's "Imagine-Nation" program!
« Reply #24 on: January 06, 2015, 10:03:33 PM »
Logitech K310 waterproof keyboard, keeping ZUN free from the worry of spilling beer while programming:


Anyone remember's ZUN vine? https://vine.co/v/hZl2A9lXtMH so this pretty much confirms this is his account :v

Yeah, this report could use more research but well, it's not easy to get a grasp of Touhou if you are completely new to it, I mean, I remember when I first got into Touhou and made similar mistakes.

Ahh, getting to see ZUN messing with Shin's danmaku, drawing Seija and THE SHEET FOR ISC 4TH THEME <3 ohh, I think that compensastes the lack of research.

By the way, is that true? Anyone can confirm is ZUN is localizing the games? From what I have hear before it's very complicated because a) ZUN does not know english b)He says if the games are getting localizated he needs to be supervising it (so the story stays the same) but since he does not know english it's gonna be very hard

I wonder if that's true, although he did mentioned that he is aware and enjoys the fact people play Touhou all over the world

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Re: "Toho Project" on NHK World's "Imagine-Nation" program!
« Reply #25 on: January 06, 2015, 11:05:34 PM »
ZUN'll get someone else to translate the games. He does have that "gotta do everything myself" doujin spirit, but he's not averse to working with other people, hell he got a different artist to do GFW's art when he could've done it himself.

Also, him supervising the translation means very little. Japanese companies often say that they have supervised the translations of games/manga/anime/whatever, but this almost amounts to them simply okay'ing the script without actually looking at it. The localizer usually has to run by any changes they make, however, and I can guarantee that ZUN would require them to make zero changes.

Re: "Toho Project" on NHK World's "Imagine-Nation" program!
« Reply #26 on: January 06, 2015, 11:28:24 PM »
Anyone remember's ZUN vine? https://vine.co/v/hZl2A9lXtMH so this pretty much confirms this is his account :v

Yeah, this report could use more research but well, it's not easy to get a grasp of Touhou if you are completely new to it, I mean, I remember when I first got into Touhou and made similar mistakes.

Ahh, getting to see ZUN messing with Shin's danmaku, drawing Seija and THE SHEET FOR ISC 4TH THEME <3 ohh, I think that compensastes the lack of research.

By the way, is that true? Anyone can confirm is ZUN is localizing the games? From what I have hear before it's very complicated because a) ZUN does not know english b)He says if the games are getting localizated he needs to be supervising it (so the story stays the same) but since he does not know english it's gonna be very hard

I wonder if that's true, although he did mentioned that he is aware and enjoys the fact people play Touhou all over the world

Well if that's the case then we won't have to translate Urban Legend in Limbo which  :D
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Re: "Toho Project" on NHK World's "Imagine-Nation" program!
« Reply #27 on: January 06, 2015, 11:39:34 PM »
ZUN'll get someone else to translate the games. He does have that "gotta do everything myself" doujin spirit, but he's not averse to working with other people, hell he got a different artist to do GFW's art when he could've done it himself.

Also, him supervising the translation means very little. Japanese companies often say that they have supervised the translations of games/manga/anime/whatever, but this almost amounts to them simply okay'ing the script without actually looking at it. The localizer usually has to run by any changes they make, however, and I can guarantee that ZUN would require them to make zero changes.

Yeah but ZUN was very specific about it. I mean, after its his work, he really cherishes it, if someone knows everything about a certain character it's him.

Well if that's the case then we won't have to translate Urban Legend in Limbo which  :D

That's different because the english patches and stuff on the wiki are fan translations. And translating from japanese is very hard because sometimes words can have multiple meanings, japanese can be ambiguous and there are multiple translations. No one is stopping the fans from doing that translation but when it comes to ZUn actually translating the games and offering them for digital sales then it's a different story, a much more complicated one.

Re: "Toho Project" on NHK World's "Imagine-Nation" program!
« Reply #28 on: January 07, 2015, 05:07:36 AM »
ZUn actually translating the games and offering them for digital sales

Does that mean there's even a remote chance that the official games get released on Steam, complete with nearly-impossible-to-get achievements?

And what if his translations differ drastically from the fan translations we're all so used to?

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Re: "Toho Project" on NHK World's "Imagine-Nation" program!
« Reply #29 on: January 07, 2015, 08:07:55 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLqQBkhFh80

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