Touhou: Awareness of Color Mafia. Day 3.

[Polaris]

Are you saying you'd rather be lynched than have your role be known? >_>

[Dorian White]

Yes, that what I meant. It wouldn't make any difference now anyway.

See you guys later, ... maybe.

[Conqueror]

Dorian, are you third party?

[ActionDan]

Lol. 

[ActionDan]

So ya I'm pretty down for dorians lynch. 

[Conqueror]

He claims to have targeted NNR because he believed NNR had an active role component and others might not, meaning Dorian directly states that he willingly used this ability to fuck with someone's results, instead of using it on someone where he might not screw them over.

If the role is going to be put to any use you'd have to target someone with an active role component. Otherwise it'd be useless so this isn't a very strong point.

- Steals reports from other players; and they do not get these reports [Denies town information; potentially grants scum it]

If he is scum, yes it grants scum the information for obvious reasons. But if he's scum, why would be claim such an anti-town aspect of your role when otherwise no one would be the wiser? And negative utility roles for town aren't something new.

Honestly most of the claim logic against Dorian is pretty bad but I have to admit it doesn't make sense for Dorian to attack NNR full force after he figured out NNR rolecopped him N1.

I still don't think Dorian's claim makes sense coming from scum but with him refusing to fullclaim for any reason I would support a lynch there to get the rest of you to shut up. Seriously, why would you think that not fullclaiming when you're town and one of the main lynch options for the day is a good idea?

[ActionDan]

Conq he revealed info when it was stated that neko got a blank result

[Conqueror]

Right. But normally there'd be no reason for NNR to know that Dorian was the cause of the blank result.

Granted, this might just be down to suboptimal scumplay and people's tendencies to try and claim their real roles.

[Bardiche]

If the role is going to be put to any use you'd have to target someone with an active role component. Otherwise it'd be useless so this isn't a very strong point.

If the role's action is so utterly negative, why deliberately use it? It'd be one thing if he targeted the person he thought was most Scummy, but it's another thing entire when you decide your target based on "most likely to have an active role I can steal results from".

[Conqueror]

gimme a bone here rawr. :V Is that all you have for reads?

not quite sure how balance setup works but would having a town Roleclop and town alignment cop be normal? im assuming the miller is there because there is alignment cop unless its some kind of red herring cf7 placed. anyways just asking ^^

I'm pretty sure power in this setup is off the wall given stuff like Schezo's flip. And town rolecop and alignment cop in the same game is already guaranteed if you buy NNR's claim, which you seem to be doing.

[Conqueror]

If the role's action is so utterly negative, why deliberately use it? It'd be one thing if he targeted the person he thought was most Scummy, but it's another thing entire when you decide your target based on "most likely to have an active role I can steal results from".

Hasn't NNR basically been Dorian's only scumread the entire game?

[WHMZakeri]

So I thought about it last night, and I think the problems I had with Both Dorian and Serela weren't based in the idea that they're actions were likely to come from scum, but rather that I'm just jealous of the fact that they seem like they have it much more together than I do. ##Unvote: Serela

The Case on Dorian that Bard and Raikaria have are sound enough from what I can see. The only thing I have against it are just paltry "What if" doubts. I would think that a Reddy would try to be more agreeable with giving out role information, but at the same time there might be the issue of he just can't think of a way to do that without making him look worse.

It's tempting to switch back to Rawr to satisfy my gut but I think Dorian might be the better option now. There's not much I have against Rawr that I can pinpoint. I actually don't agree with the feeling that his vote on me is weak and not based on thinking I'm scum because I actually kind of agree with the fact that my Serela vote was shit.

I'm ... genuinely surprised that my wagon backed off so quickly somehow. Not that I'm complaining, it's just ... actually, wait, yeah I am complaining, because I feel like my post was utter crap. I'm not sure why I'm getting an A for effort all of a sudden.

[WHMZakeri]

Edit: ##Vote: Dorian

[ActionDan]

##vote: dorian

Blammo. 

L-1.

Scum lynch is a go

[Conqueror]

I'd hammer but CF7 wouldnt be around for the flip anyway,

[ActionDan]

You know you want it
You know you want it.

You're a good toooowwnnn!

[Conqueror]

Nah, I'll refrain from the honor. There are a couple of people who havent posted recently; I'll give them a chance to say something.

[Moridin]

By the way Raikaria, you put NNR and another player in your quicktopic with you are? Do you have a specific way to confirm TOWN players, or do you just think NNR is TOWN?

MAFIA are probably going to try and hit you this time around so I don't think there is any reason to hide that information.

[Conqueror]

If Mafia hits him then NNR can simply convey the information for him.

[Serela]

Just got home from work and am baking cakes, but I caught up on the thread and while I think Dorian's play is really anti-town, the way he's acting would be outright suicidal as scum right now. Like, as scum all he'd have to do is some (IMO) easy lies and it'd be quite possible to get Zak or Rawr lynched instead (then again, if they're scumbuddies...) and instead he's practically asking to get lynched rather than cooperate.

I really don't like Dorian's play but I don't really think he's scum with how he's acting now? Like, it'd be satisfying to lynch him, but I think one of the other two is a more likely scumflip. That being said they've both been posting again and I have to think a little harder before I make a serious decision between the two >.> I've really only done a bit more than skim the new stuff

@Polly, Zak+Rawr were both my scumreads and Zak made a huge contentpost (when his only detriment was super lack of content) whilst Rawr had DROPPED OFF THE FACE OF THE PLANET and megalurked long enough other mods would have threatened force-replacement or modkill, so, I was pretty okay with switching before more indepth reading later

[Massaca]

@ Raikaria,
Is it still a certainty that the whole Dorian thing will be cleared up tonight if he doesn't get lynched?

[Conqueror]

I agree with you Serela, but at this point Dorian isn't the worst of lynches, given the distraction he is to a good portion of the game and several minor inconsistencies in his narrative which give him at least a non-miniscule chance of flipping scum. I'd still prefer one of zak/rawr but I guess we'll see after the flip.

Cut: I'm pretty sure Raikaria revealed all relevant info in the thread already. It's highly unlikely Dorian won't get lynched at this point anyway.

[Polaris]

I actually don't agree with the feeling that his vote on me is weak and not based on thinking I'm scum because I actually kind of agree with the fact that my Serela vote was shit.

Well my problem with Rawr is here:

From this day on we shall look back at this mistake and think "wow what was zakeri smoking" and then proceed to actually find scum.

The impression I got here was "we'll lynch Zakeri for being crazy, and then we can move on to lynching scum" i.e. Zakeri is not scum but we should lynch him anyway. That's pretty scummy. It might just be a semantics thing, though, so tell me if I'm too far off.

[O4rfish]

Might as well prove BT stole my vote, for what that's worth. Doesn't seem like a super towny thing to need proving though, but whatever.
##Unvote; Vote: Dorian

[Serela]

polly I'm p.sure he meant we'll find scum after moving on from Zak's case on me or w/e, not after lynching Zak (even if that's totally his goal)

[Serela]

I starting posting again to say "oh welp that's hammer" but then... duh, o4rfish shouldn't have a vote anymore, sooo

[Massaca]

Cut: I'm pretty sure Raikaria revealed all relevant info in the thread already.

All I'd like from Raikaria is a yes or no. Nothing more.
He revealed what's necessary to his case but that may not be related to his whole "all will be revealed tonight anyway" deal so if it's still on and will clear up the situation with certainty, I'd prefer to lynch rawr today.


Cut by Oarfish and Serela

If Oarfish's wagon hammers, it won't actually hammer because it'll need one more vote.

Uh, not certain now but at the time I thought he meant that Oarfish requires an extra vote to hammer, not that Oarfish himself can't hammer someone else so that should be a hammer?

[Polaris]

I still assert that the Zakeri wagon kind of disintegrated too easily, which would imply that at least one person on the wagon at the time of my replace has to be wagoning scum. Moridin is probably the worst, jumping from the Zak wagon to the Dorian wagon without too much contribution, but I dunno if I should be giving him a pass for being new ?_? Serela is the second worst.

Oarfish's vote won't count at the final votecount.

:V this would imply that the day isn't over, but idk.

[Serela]

if BT's power worked, and worked as he claimed it does, that shouldn't be hammer

[Sky_Paladin]

Vote count of the hungry caterpillar. 

Currently voting.
Conqueror ( 1 ): Animosity
Dorian ( 8 ): NNR, BT, Raikaria, Just/Bard, Moridin84, Zakeri, ActionDan, Oarfish
Zakeri ( 2 ): SB, Dr Rawr
Dr Rawr ( 4 ) Conqueror, Serela, Polaris, Dorian

Not voting.
Massaca

With 15 alive it takes 8 votes to lynch someone.  Somehow, the phase is continuing. 

6 hours left. 

Edit:  Fixed case of Dorian voting for himself, whoops.