Communication Breakdance (Game Over! Town win)

[Nachtwanderlied]

forgot to address that i've only been useless for 3 days

[Kilgamayan]

Bunch of clarifications, it seems.

Kilga never does give us that assessment of Rou's reaction to the Edible lie detector thing on page 16. He sticks on Sodium though.

Apologies, Edible's "result" completely threw me for a loop at the time.

For what it's worth now, my assessment was that Roukan was being an overzealous townie. It looked like he was a bit confused and aggravated at the Sodium/Seniwac build-up before that and once Edible randomly bounced out into the open with a fairly questionable roleclaim he took out his frustration there.

Curious who that was

It was Serpentarius, which I mention after Sodium hammered himself.

Random Alice push on page 22. Almost to giant space flea from nowhere levels.

I believe my switch to Alice was telegraphed by my Page 20 four-player assessment.

[UncertainJakutten]

I believe my switch to Alice was telegraphed by my Page 20 four-player assessment.

Might have missed it. You still only make sense as a partner, not a loner.

[Nachtwanderlied]

The whole 'Kilga jumping away from wagons' point is sort of weird. Swinging away from one buddy is risky. Two is suicidal. It's more glaring in the case of D2 - if he wanted to stay away from Sodium, why didn't he just keep up his attack on Seniwac from the day before? Thus I'm not really convinced by that line of reasoning.

What did you think of his justification on why Sodium was town? The D2 point was based mostly on that. It looked like a Last-Minute Desperate Scum Defense.

[Nachtwanderlied]

EDWOP: Assuming Edible and I DOES die at Twilight, who would you target?

[Nachtwanderlied]

slep time

please don't kill me yet

[UncertainJakutten]

So, pesco tiem

RVS vote on Sodium in 60. (Mindhax?)

me too ism as early as page 3

Page 4 is unnoteworthy

158 is me too etc.

160 feels like a fair post, but doesn't seem to implicate anyone...

Pesco's page 7 feels like what we've been accusing KGH of. Asking questions but not following through.

219 seems decent on Sodium

261s promise is noted

Page 10 continues decent one liners that don't fit 261s promise. Not sure what I think, but still leaning "Well, he's probably somewhat town"

Pesco is early on Zengar at end of day 1, so it's good.

354 me too etc.

384 is decent.

(I'd also like to state the big post 261 promised never came)

430's swing to Seniwac is not something I like. However...it is a reasonable post.

Don't like the pseudo percentage breakdown in 440. At all.

No pesco for two pages, and a sparse 567...but fair point...

Page 20 reflects well on Pesco I think.

Page 22 seems sparser...

Meh...Pesco seems town, if succint (which isn't necessarily bad)

He pretty much gets what needs to be said said, in a couple lines or less, and there's no real obfuscation.

Kilga and Pesco do not merit my vote today. I'm clearing Seniwac on vote history for the time being. That leaves Rou and Edible, who I've already stated are likely to be the scum.

I'm going to keep voting Edible since I'm not going to vote someone I think is town. Sorry about that.

[FinnKaenbyou]

What did you think of his justification on why Sodium was town? The D2 point was based mostly on that. It looked like a Last-Minute Desperate Scum Defense.

To have made that escape, he'd have had to predict that Edible was gonna pull that gambit, which is sort of absurd.

[Pesco]

Having to reread is such a chore right now .

Seniwac and Edible are kicking it today. Get it done and over with, we win or we analyse some more.

Obviously my options are between Kilga and UK. Rou would have proven himself twice already. Kiro cleared by Serp, even if one didn't want to believe that, any scumKiro theory that I can think of in the course of the game's events is far too convoluted to be considered.

Off the top of my head, faults with Kilga are the times he's appealed to meta. The issue here is that I don't recall Kilga using such things as acceptable logic. His cases on scum have been 'too perfect' if we we can call it that. He's homed in on Sodium and Zengar very accurately and although they were so obvscum, the strongest play for his own survivability as scum is to bus them without a second thought.

UK's MO is to play loner. Given how bussable the scum have been this game. It's not a strong indicator. I recall UK already calling Edible or Rou as buddies before Sodium was lynched. Sticking to Edible through day 3 in spite of Alice's wagon might be distancing.

The main points against me is that I'm too much of a follower this game. Well time zones kinda suck don't they. If stuff's been said, then I state my side on it.

[Kilgamayan]

I've defended myself with meta only when I feel I've been attacked with meta. Really, as far as I can see it, the case against me is "Kilga saw two useless scumbuddies and superbussed both in order to win the game on his own". There's next to no in-game logical foundation for this, just an assessment of what I might have done based on the kind of player I am, and yet this assessment of me is somehow enough to override my ScumSodium slam at the start of Day 2 right after a scum flip where logic dictates that ScumMe would have been much better served to keep pursuing Seniwac or make a case on someone else. People will point at my moving to Seniwac late in the day, but, again, if I wanted to divert attention from scumbuddy Sodium, I just would not have nailed him down at the beginning of the day in the first place. Suggesting I planned a diversion also implies I predicted Edible would dance his dance, which is ludicrous as Roukan pointed out.

If there's a case against me founded in logic, then I'd be happy to hear it and refute it with logic (most likely the Sodium logic already presented in this post), but don't hold meta defenses against me when all I get are meta attacks and "heart says Kilga" conclusions.

[Kiro]

Thinking a bit about the Sodium wagon switches in Day 2, I guess one thing I'm overestimating is how bad Pesco's switch to KGH was. If KGH is also Scum, there has literally been zero chances for them to get a mislynch in. But if KGH is Town, that has been Scum's only chance to mislynch this game before going solo. But it never was really a strong factor in Day 1 where I think KGH only got to L-2 at varying points. As a chance to push a mislynch, Pesco's #429-430 in response to KGH's #407 was one of the 2 times in the game it could reasonably happen. KGH got ahead with my vote and while Alice and KGH brought Sodium back up, Pesco's switch reversed it. Thinking about it, would ScumPesco really have a choice but to try for the possible KGH mislynch anyways? His name would be on it, but then so would mine and whoever hammered as well as people who tunneled on Town KGH like K4U. If Scum could get a break, this would be the time. Pesco: do you still consider KGH to be a possible 3rd party, going back to your 33% argument? Is there any further justification to your vote on KGH today other than steamroll? And you don't seem to really provide a defense/response to KGH's case on you.

Course the KGH lynch didn't pan out this way in Day 2 and with Edible's roleclaim confusing things, I guess the main distinction between Pesco and Kilga is that Pesco stayed on KGH while Kilga lingered on Sodium for a bit before relenting and saying we could see whether Edible/Sodium could resolve itself (which is the second time a Scum could have tried for the possible KGH mislynch). I didn't consider this as much, but Kilga's #518 is the one where he hints at Serp being the possible Doc and at the same time runs counter with that assumption by unvoting Sodium and voting KGH. He says the possibility of them as a pair would be figured out and dismisses the idea that one is Town and the other could be Scum (no proof of that till possibly the end of the Day). He also worried that Sodium could very well be the Doc while throwing in the possibility Serp was the one. In retrospect, Serp voting Sodium back to L-1 after Edible's claim was a pretty strong sign that only you seemed to notice so why didn't you stick with it?

I'm starting to find it weird that both Pesco and Kilga are almost identical in voting history. Both voted Sodium early, both switched to KGH, and both think steamroll and vote KGH early in Day 4. I "don't think" both are Scum, but the rationale of those actions suggest it is one of the best courses of action for Scum to take this game. The suspicion is that one of them is Scum and the other is Townie whose actions while given by a  Townie, run parallel to Scum interests.

KGH finally got something forward and his case on Pesco isn't bad. Going back to why Sodium would try to bus a Scum KGH so early in Day 1 while hinting at Zengar before the case on Zengar really got going: Sodium explicitly mentions Zengar when he didn't have to and he did it periodically. So if he wanted to bus a Scum KGH, he shouldn't be keeping his other buddy halfway relevant in the day's discussion. And that end of Day 1 switch is once again, really stupid and unneeded if Sodium knew both of them were Scum. He might get some heat for ignoring Zengar, but it would be redeemed if KGH flipped Scum. I'm convincing myself Sodium's actions are a more classic example of trying to mislynch one and ignore the other. KGH may be late, but that by itself is not enough to just brush his case aside. So if I think about Pesco vs Kilga more, Pesco goes on Zengar after Kilga (with more minimal reasons than Kilga), but Pesco goes from Sodium to KGH before Kilga. Pesco is after Kilga on the idea of steamrolling today, but because it looked like it was the only viable wagon, it does seem more neutral. We can't quite do a steamroll this game, we're about a phase behind so I guess the point is to try to get it right. I'm managing to convince myself it's more likely Pesco than Kilga now so there's the vote. Still want Kilga to answer those specific concerns about his actions in #518, if it's not Pesco or Edible, Day 5 may shape up to be Kilga.

##Vote Pesco

[Pesco]

Seniwac's play the entire game has been reactionary. When we don't prod him, he lurks. When we do, he comes firing with OMGUS cases. Have we seen him actually scumhunt without prompting? These things indicate someone that wants to stay alive, the only motivators are scum or third party.

On paper, Seniwac is the scummiest person alive and should be lynched by the facts of his actions. I can't quite recall my thoughts from day 3, but here was my displeasure at what Seniwac was doing.

I see his complaints as calling me TooTownie. There is no need to respond to such a case.

[Kilgamayan]

I didn't think Serp was the doc - I (mistakenly) believed he would have counterclaimed at his first opportunity. I singled out Serp because he was the only player in the game I couldn't find a reason to vote for at the time, and I was getting aggravated since every time I tried to reread Sodium and Seniwac I'd find something suspicious from someone else that wasn't involved and it was distracting me instead of helping me make a decision.

My switch to Seniwac was brought on by a combination of no doc counterclaim and Sodium calling Edible's bluff instead of rolling over and dying, assisted by a perfectly valid Seniwac case. I admit I may have made a mistake in thinking Sodium would throw in the towel when Edible did what he did, but I maintain the belief that cornered scum are more likely to give up than town, which implies cornered town are less likely to give up than scum.

You say I "dismissed" the idea of Edible and Sodium being opposite alignments. Do you disagree with the thought process I used in either case?

Anything else you want me to cover?

[WHMZakeri]

The "It's the slowest day ever~" Votecount.

Edible?: Uncertain Kitten (L-3)
Khorneish Game Hen: Kilgamayan, Pesco, Roukanken (L-1)
Pesco: Khorneish Game Hen, Kiro (L-2)

Seniwac is still at L-1 for those interested.
About 20.5 hours are left in the day.

[Kiro]

Kilga: It just seems with the way you said there was one person not worth voting for and then you patting yourself on the back after Serp's roleclaim and not wanting to "expose him to risk of NK" indicates you had a greater certainty about Serp and I tied it into you figuring out Serp telegraphed his role. Since you say it's different than that, that's a bit of a surprise and I'm not sure what motivation you would have to have made that comment as Town or Scum. While you as Scum could have caught on to Serp being the Doc and not said anything, it would have probably cost you a scumbuddy anyways so it would have been better to just keep shut about it and finish bussing Sodium and probably NK Serp without him knowing that you knew. The only reason I can see you as Townie saying that was out of pure frustration which is kinda useless. But I guess I'd still have to lean more towards the latter likelihood.

I disagree with the idea of clearing Sodium because he didn't cave to Edible's gambit, but I can see it as a Townie mistake and your reasoning for unvoting Sodium looked ok at the time. I actually thought Edible was hinting that he was a Cop who checked Sodium Night 1, got an Innocent on him and didn't want to see a mislynch while revealing his own role. So I thought Edible tweaked it to be a Lie Detector, lied himself to throw people off, and tried to clear Sodium in that fashion. Needless to say, after Sodium flipped Scum, I checked the entire thing, saw what you and Edible were banking on and double facepalmed IRL. I'd probably have chastised you then instead of now. So my conclusion is that the reason sucks, but the explanation for it is ok. Probably makes you look more Townie because Edible thought the same way and you couldn't be assured Scum Kilga would get a chance like this to jump off Sodium like that.

I think the clarification on the first point does make you look a whole lot better than before. With everything else that you've done, I'm probably willing to clear you completely at this point (unless someone else finds something of note). Kinda waiting to see what else happens now with KGH and Pesco.

Pesco: KGH isn't calling you Too Townie. He has some points against you I believe.

[Pesco]

Let him come in and make them clearer. It doesn't look like something I need to defend against.

[FinnKaenbyou]

Gah, getting one last post in before the phase change. Staying over at a friend's house and hijacking his computer. -_-

In short, still don't think KGH has done enough to be worth sparing today. One decent case against Pesco really isn't enough to make up for almost 4 days of uselessness. >_>

[Nachtwanderlied]

Preferrable to selfhammer a VT or leave only Edible dead?

LET's see

If I(Town) and Edible today die: 5 alive at end of D4.

4 Alive D5 (Scum kills)

ASSUME ROU SHOOTS AND WE LYNCH: 2 Alive. If Scum is alive, we lose.

ROU DOES NOT SHOOT: 3 Alive at End of D5. Scum Kills, Town loses.

More justifiable if Rou shoots to have a better chance of hitting scum if 2 die today.

If Only ONE Dies: 6 Alive at end of D4.

5 Alive at Beginning of D5 (Scum Kills)

ASSUME ROU SHOOTS: 3 Alive. Scum Kills at Night, we lose.

ASSUME ROU DOES NOT SHOOT: 4 Alive. Scum Kills at Night. Lylo then.


IF NONE DIE ( what )

7 Alive at End of D4.

6 Alive at Beginning of D5 (Scum Kills)

ROU SHOOTS: 4 Alive at End of D5. Scum Kills at N5, Lylo.

ROU DOES NOT: 5 Alive at End of D5. 4 at N5. Lylo.

I feel my death would best clear up suspicions. So I'm going to selfhammer. Rou shooting or not makes no difference in when we embark onto LYLO. Kiro made a note of this. Take note. Rou should shoot to increase chances of hitting scum.

Don't like Pesco for jumping off obvscum wagon for feels like paranoid scum. New point on UK is null because Alice/Edible were pretty much the same until I tied. Seems like the suspicion was the same too. Don't like point on Kilga for being Too Townie. Being a townie and voting scum is a stronger indication of town playing right rather than scum. If you made that point, why not focus that on UK?





##UNVOTE


##VOTE KGH


fun ride, but I believe we ll lose.

good day kids

i wish i could'vecontributed more but school is like AHHHHHG

[Edible]

y u do dis

[Nachtwanderlied]

y u do dis

for the greater town

[WHMZakeri]

The "Last possible votecount, I completely and honestly swear

Spoiler:

Not

!" Votecount.[/size]

Edible?: Uncertain Kitten (L-3)
Khorneish Game Hen: Kilgamayan, Pesco, Roukanken, Khorneish Game Hen (L-1)
Pesco: Khorneish Game Hen, Kiro (L-3)

Khorneish Game Hen was lynched! He was Sariel, Angel of Death.

Edible was the Victim of an unfortunate Accident! He was Tenshi Hinanai, Celestial Serving the Clan of the Earthquake.

Unfortunately, they were both Vanilla Townies.

This means that all of you lovely lovely people get to send in more nightactions~[/color]

[WHMZakeri]

One by one, everyone was dropping like flies. on top of the recent streak of townie lynches, more and more innocent youkai are being dragged into submission by these mysterious events.

They found Kiro, lying face down in a pool of strawberry Jam.

The four remaining people awoke, stressed that today might be the last chance they get to remove those who would undermine them. Much arguing was done, but in the end, it wouldn't matter.

For at the end of the day, no matter who they lynched, Pesco would find himself on the business end of a Rake to the Face.

Pesco will be the subject of an Unfortunate Accident by tonight. He was Youmu Kompaku, Half-Ghost, Half-Human, and Half-baked a Mafia Goon. Since it's impossible for him to reach Scum Win condition before the end of the day, The game is called in town's favor.

Role PMs are found in the document attached to the bottom of this post.

[Kiro]

Can...can I get up ye-

[FinnKaenbyou]

Third time's a charm, I guess. >_>

[WHMZakeri]

Whee~ First post entire thread that's not in some weird color~

First of all, it was obviously Pesco. Kilgamayan's meta tell of Pesco acting town = totally scum was actually true. I knew he was going to raise some flags the moment he took the game seriously. But then, think about it: You have a scum team made out of one complete newbie, one person who couldn't talk a paper bag into folding, and one person who is always scum, even when he's town. Someone has to pick up their game or it would be a landslide.

Note on Roles:
I was thinking of a good scum role that hasn't been used before, and came up with Janitor. On night one, the scumteam almost hit Serpentarius, and with the Doctor Janitored, Day 2 would have been vastly different when Sodium would come to claim Doctor. Janitor for this game was a one shot ability, and Sodium would learn the identity of who they killed.

I laughed every time Pesco aimed for Kiro. The way Serp's role worked in flavor was that since Serp was an immortal, she protected others by switching places with them, causing Scum to accidentally and ineffectively kill him instead. This obviously wouldn't work protect himself, since then the scum team knows who they're targeting. In effect, Serp couldn't protect himself, which threw everyone for a loop when he died. This is why the doctor is never suppose to claim except in situations like the end of day 2.

Also, a Vig was nice, but we always use dayvigs, which completely clears whoever it is. Nightvigs never get that satisfaction, so I went with that. And yes, it was an unlimited shot, which helped prevent the metarole clear on him. though, I'm thinking next time I'll make the delay longer so that you can only shoot once every other night.

This setup was balanced! The only problem was that people on MotK like to lynch people for being bad players, and most of the scumteam was comprised of bad players. I'm surprized no one even gave a second glance at Pesco's switch from Sodium to Seniwac until the end of day four. You people had the ability to pin that on him day 3 to end the game there, but instead you steamrolled four vanilla townies before looking in his direction. I'm sort of disappointed at this, and it reflects mostly what I was saying at the begining of the previous game.

And No Kiro. You can't get up until you finish licking up that jam.

[Kilgamayan]

Oh thank God. I was almost set to vote Kiro on the final day because his arguments against me had been mostly crap and it seemed like he had been setting me up as a LYLO mislynch. >_>

Also the pesco meta thing was largely a joke. Some of his posts were legit good, too, so I expect that from him in every game from now on. Same goes for UK.

[WHMZakeri]

Oh thank God. I was almost set to vote Kiro on the final day because his arguments against me had been mostly crap and it seemed like he had been setting me up as a LYLO mislynch. >_>

On that note, I thought I was going to make it too impossible for Pesco to win when I told Rou my Ruling on if the Vig happens after he dies or not. Turns out it didn't matter anyway. I don't know why he was so deadset on killing Kiro.

Also, I'm leaving it to Pesco or the rest of the scumteam to post the scumchat quicktopic.

[Kilgamayan]

Also, since I don't have to worry about people going "Kilga is using meta! Get him!" anymore, my scum play is to put my ass on the line, not my buddies'. Look at PC-98, SWR and Bamboo Forest, three games in a row where I was scum. All three games I came under heavy fire on Day 2 whilst my buddies were allowed to coast on through to the victory. Thinking I would throw buddies away to win the game myself is silly. :V

[Nietz]

The only problem was that people on MotK like to lynch people for being bad players, and most of the scumteam was comprised of bad players.

That pretty much sums up the game. The obligatory irony being that the one good player in scumteam got found out exactly for playing well.

[Kiro]

The delicious jam of victory. *lap lap* *gets up*

Good shot Rou, heck there was only one good target at that point. Dang your role is beast in retrospect. 3 Town directed kills is no laughing matter and you surely got Serp's protect the Night he died especially since he couldn't self-protect.

Just wanted to say that my switching from Sodium to KGH in Day 2 was just trying to throw a curve into all the people voting Sodium. Cuz even if Sodium flipped Scum, we wouldn't be able to distinguish any bussing Scum from the Townies there. Course, I was putting myself at risk, but I thought we needed a bit of a jolt and unpredictability. Pesco switching off to go KGH surprised me and his reasoning was good and I did initially pass it off as too risky to be Scum before backtracking off of that on Day 4.

Kilga, I said what I said about you partially because I believed it and partially because I wanted to see if Pesco would react in any way and try to push harder on you. I was fishing for reactions, but by the end of Day 4, when I said I had cleared you, I really meant it then. It was finally something tangible in the sense that "even if Kilga were a superbusser, this sequence is completely illogical from a superbusser's point of view." I second guessed you for awhile, but you were very responsive and I found a point that I could deem satisfactory so if it came down to LYLO in Day 5, I never would have voted you.