Maidens of the Kaleidoscope
~Beyond the Border~ => Rumia's Party Games => Mystia's Stored Games => Topic started by: WHMZakeri on August 26, 2009, 10:28:00 PM
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Welcome, the to first Great Youkai Meeting!
Together, we have gathered from all across Gensokyo, the Stage six bosses of each game! There has been a World Wide revolt! it appears that humans a Youkai alike to overthrowing their Mistresses all at once! Word has it that This revolt would not have been so graphically and horribly violent if only the Gensokyo Worker's Union had pulled through! Oh, what a horrible horrible mistake that was! Many are gathered here today to discuss issues of how to deal with the problem!
This just in! I received word that a Crow Tengu has infiltrated the building it important news! We go live to the Scene.
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"Ayayayayaya!"
"Syameimaru!? What are you doing here?"
"I have bad news! Some of the rebelling humans and youkai have snuck into this very meeting hall, disguised as their respective Mistresses! You have to be careful!"
"COME BACK HERE, AYA! MY LEAF SHIELD HAS MORE TO SAY TO YOU!"
"Ahh! I Have to go, Momizi is chasing me!"
"Wait...!"
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And there we have it. How will the Youkai deal with this? only time will tell!
If we could just see through eye to eye, We wouldn't have to suffer like this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NE7-dWdxb8)
Living
6. Roukanken Chen Yakumo
7. Pesco
9. Kilgamayan
11. UncertainKitten
Leaving
0. Aya Syameimaru, Crow Tengu reporter Chased away night Zero.
3. Hizengar Byakuren Chiyuri Kitashirakawa - Mafia Goon Locked in a Spacecraft, Day one.
2. u? Someone, Something Was vagued all over the skull night one.
12. EX Na2O2 Syou Toramaru - Mafia Janitor Was ratted out, Day 2.
10. Alice Margatroid Suwako J. Moriya Kanako Yasaka - Vanilla Townie Ascended to the heavens, Day 3.
4. Kitten-4u Gengetu - Vanilla Townie Returned to the Dream world with a new dream, Day 3~
8. Serpentarius Kaguya Houraisan - Town Doctor Lost her mind, Night 3.
1. Khorneish Game Hen Sariel - Vanilla Townie was cast down from the meeting day 4.
10.5. Edible? Tenshi Hinanai - Vanilla Townie Was abducted by Orcs, day 4.
5. Kiro Shinki - Vanilla Townie Tasted like Jam~ Night 4.
?. Someone who would have been lynched Day 5 if the game continued.
7. Pesco Youmu Kompaku - Mafia Goon tried so hard, but in the end it doesn't even matter.
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Rules:
1. Nights will last upwards of 24-48 hours, depending on several factors. My whim being one of them.
2. Days will last exactly 72 hours.
3. Votes are to be marked in bold and with double #s. Example: ##Vote: Zakeri
3b. Unvotes will be marked similarly. Example: ##Unvote: Zakeri. Failure to do this will result in me ignoring your vote. Failing to unvote also means that you are unable to vote someone else.
3c. You may vote "No lynch" which will result in a no lynch if it has the most votes or holds a majority.
3d. All Vote Ties are resolved by Haiku. Most interesting Haiku will be graded by my friends, family, and people I don't even know. They do not need to be about anything in particular.
4. Once a majority is reached, I will ignore all subsequent votes and unvotes and the day will end with that person's death. You may talk during twilight.
5. Do not discuss this game outside of the thread unless your role PM lists the names of other people. You will be able to talk to others listed in your role PM. Daytalk is allowed.
6. Once dead, you are Dead. You are allowed one bah post, no more no less.
7. You may not delete or Edit you previous posts. If you must make a change, please doublevote.
8. Do not attempt to use the way my Role PMs are writen to prove someone's innocence. It probably wouldn't work anyway, since most of it is me rambling about the character backstory.
9. After 48 hours without a post, not counting night (But counting from the previous day if nessecery) They are open to being prodded. Please tell me if you wish someone to be prodded and I will do so if they need it. If they do not respond within 24 hours of the prod, I will replace them. Please post in thread if you expect to be gone for more than one or two days.
10. Likewise, you can grab my attention with bold. Example: Mod: I like Vanilla Icecream!
10.5. No posting Screenshots.
11. Any post claiming to break the rules will be treated as having broken the rules.
12. The Color Orange is mine. I can and probably will change colors if needed.
13. This rule will be released next year at Comiket.
Sending out Role PMs now.
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Nuke: Zakeri
/confirm
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/confirm.
dangnabbit, beaten
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All Role PM's Sent. Please Confirm in thread or by PM.
If you did not get a role, or if there are mistaking in your role PM, please contact me privately about it.
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confirstmed
FUCK YOU BOTH
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Wait how did Seniwac post in a locked topic
This topic shouldn't be locked anymore :V
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/confirm
All Role PM's Sent. Please Confirm in thread or by PM.
If you did not get a role, or if there are mistaking in your role PM, please contact me privately about it.
lolwut?
Shut up.
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confirstmed
FUCK YOU BOTH
But I don't like guys that much...
Sorry :(
m-maybe a hug? possibly?
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This topic shouldn't be locked anymore :V
It was locked when I posted both of my previous posts, which means both he and UK got in before you unlocked it.
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Which I did!
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Confirmed.
Mod: What happens if No Lynch is tied with someone else? Do you have to wait for it to submit a haiku?
No Lynch can't submit a haiku, ergo it automatically loses as long as the other person sends something in.
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Confirmed.
Mod: What happens if No Lynch is tied with someone else? Do you have to wait for it to submit a haiku?
I'd assume the townie automatically wins. That's how I'd handle it :P.
Also, Mod: so the haiku doesn't have to be amusing?
No, but it helps to prevent your lynch if it is.
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MOD: So are you saying that a majority lynch-mob cannot be changed by any player means?
Correct. Lynches cannot be unlynched after a majority is reached, nor can other lynches occur.
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/confirmed
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Magic happens, I /confirm.
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Confirmed.
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Confi-
Oh wait.
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No Lynch can't submit a haiku, ergo it automatically loses as long as the other person sends something in.
Mod bias! No Lynch-tan requires representation! ;_;
You're the ones lynching her in the first place.
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No Lynch can't submit a haiku, ergo it automatically loses as long as the other person sends something in.
Mod bias! No Lynch-tan requires representation! ;_;
You're the ones lynching her in the first place.
I breifly considered making it so the player had to pit it against a mod generated haiku judged by a third party, but that would just SCREAM bias.
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>mod-generated
>third-party
what
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Operation Make Everyone Confuse Serpentarius And Myself go!
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I breifly considered making it so the player had to pit it against a mod generated haiku judged by a third party, but that would just SCREAM bias.
Lynching the mod? I can roll with that.
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Operation Make Everyone Confuse Serpentarius And Myself go!
I can still read, you know.
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Mod bias! No Lynch-tan requires representation! ;_;
I think someone should draw No Lynch-tan now.
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Operation Make Everyone Confuse Serpentarius And Myself go!
Your plot has been foil'd.
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Damn you!
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I breifly considered making it so the player had to pit it against a mod generated haiku judged by a third party, but that would just SCREAM bias.
Lynching the mod? I can roll with that.
Been done in two of my prior games offsite. It's basically a glorified no lynch with me flipping as an unkillable neutral.
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Lynching the mod? I can roll with that.
Been done in two of my prior games offsite. It's basically a glorified no lynch with me flipping as an unkillable neutral.
But that's no fun at all!
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Lynching the mod? I can roll with that.
If I, as mod, die, you no longer have a game. Now what's no fun :P?
Been done in two of my prior games offsite. It's basically a glorified no lynch with me flipping as an unkillable neutral.
But that's no fun at all!
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Lynching the mod? I can roll with that.
Been done in two of my prior games offsite. It's basically a glorified no lynch with me flipping as an unkillable neutral.
But that's no fun at all!
If I, as mod, die, you no longer have a game. Now what's no fun :P?
Anarchy in a Mafia game.
Tell me you wouldn't like that.
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Lynching the mod? I can roll with that.
Been done in two of my prior games offsite. It's basically a glorified no lynch with me flipping as an unkillable neutral.
But that's no fun at all!
If I, as mod, die, you no longer have a game. Now what's no fun :P?
Anarchy in a Mafia game.
Tell me you wouldn't like that.
Sounds kinda like an intriguing theme. But I think it was done once. Worked reasonably well.
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In one my previous games lynching the mod ended up with 3 random dead players.
Not the best way to settle it, but oh it was funny.
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Confirmed! Excitement!
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In one my previous games lynching the mod ended up with 3 random dead players.
Not the best way to settle it, but oh it was funny.
Best not give me ideas. I'm a bastard mod, remember?
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In one my previous games lynching the mod ended up with 3 random dead players.
Not the best way to settle it, but oh it was funny.
Best not give me ideas. I'm a bastard mod, remember?
I don't see the wrong part in this.
How about a game where everyone has TWO power roles?
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In one my previous games lynching the mod ended up with 3 random dead players.
Not the best way to settle it, but oh it was funny.
Best not give me ideas. I'm a bastard mod, remember?
I don't see the wrong part in this.
How about a game where everyone has TWO power roles?
Played a game where everyone had two win cons. If I were to do an "everyone has two Power roles" game they'd be limited to using one per night.
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Bold text.
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Dangit other players, /confirm already!
i want to get mislynched ;__;
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Confirmed.
Suwako can't possibly be excited. She rolled Kanako Yasaka. Lying scum already.
##Vote Suwako J. Moriya
Will repeat when Day 1 begins if necessary.
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Syameimaru!?
Shameimaru!
Also, confirming in.
Again, a caution that I'm not going to be here for most of tomorrow. Thursdays and Wednesdays are busy for me.
i want to get mislynched ;__;
As the god of the Hakurei shrine I shall consider this a prayer.
Also, Genjii is absolutely not the god of the Hakurei shrine, even if gods like to hang out in ponds out back.
Last @Hizengar: We tried anarchy in a Mafia game before. That was... Zakeri's first game, Moriya Shrine Mafia, where Alice Margatroid got wagoned to L-1 on Page 2 as the co-mod. (Proving once again that we never go through with lynching A-Mo.)
Then the game actually turned into anarchy at the end :V
Speaking of which, I'm proud to announce that there is a second Moriya Shrine Mafia in the works. It will be less broken, have more twists and turns, and be just as bastardy.
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Quick guys let's get a majority on umu while he's gone!
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No, on a couple of levels.
Also @mod: Kitten4u has confirmed.
Also @Serpentarius: That song wasn't very interesting IMO. You need to advertise the orchestral version of Missing Power instead.
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Best Mafia game title everrrrr
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##Yuyuko Doll Drake
Oh wait
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*goes to YouTube and sees the first results are for Led Zeppelin*
I suppose I should feel bad that I thought of this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNcWpKRm_c4) when I saw the title instead...
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This is the theme for this Mafia game. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMczRJh_OeI)
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Edible I love you forever
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Edible I love you forever
This.
If we get the transient facts, Then we feel the info high~
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Don't be silly, Kanako was always my proxy in these affairs. If she perishes in the revolution, that's a win for me, and if she overthrows it, Sanae will come over to my side in tears~
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This.
If we get the transient facts, Then we feel the info high~
Who will get 2fast2furious'd first?
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Who will get 2fast2furious'd first?
The rapist, of course.
And that's not me.
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I'm not the rapist. I was defending her from the horrible likes of you!
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Shut up! I haven't forgotten how you broke my model plane!
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I see pesco is trying his new crazy master gambit plan of lurking through the confirmation phase.
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You know, I kinda like this avatar. I may just keep it after the game ends.
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Confirm
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Don't lie to me, I know you're a spy.
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##Vote Rou
##Yuyuko Doll Kikga
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With only one person left to Confirm, you may begin the day!
Dawn of the First day! 72 hours remain
Deadline is Sunday, Aug 30, 2:30 A.M. EST
Also, don't forget that you may request an Extension if needed.
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##Vote Sodium
Obvscum
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##vote to lynch someone today
Leave No Lynch-tan alone! >:|\
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##Vote Kilgamayan
Your attempts to confuse us are clearly scum behavior.
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Confirmed! Excitement!
Suwako can't possibly be excited. She rolled Kanako Yasaka. Lying scum already.
##Vote Suwako J. Moriya
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I went over this. Listen more.
##Vote: Kiro needs to read the thread, obvious noobscum.
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The "Mod is too excited to get the game rolling Votecount
EX Na2O2 (L-6): Pesco
Kilgamayan (L-6): Hizengar Byakuren
Suwako J. Moriya (L-6): Kiro
Kiro (L-6): Suwako J. Moriya
Everyone Else (L-7)
70.5 Hours left in the day
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I thought Rou was lurking, but oh wait he's not playing this time ;D
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##VOTE UMU
we must strike when the enemy's inactive!
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##Vote: Khorneish Game Hen (L-6)
In the words of many great philosophers on the Internet, Oh My God You Suck.
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##Vote: Zenger
Everyone else is OMGUSing. I want to be cool too.
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OMG Kilga is sooooooo cool now!~
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Pesco not being voted? In my RVS? It's more likely then you think
##Vote Pesco
Am I a cool kid now?
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##Vote: Khorneish Game Hen (L-6)
In the words of many great philosophers on the Internet, Oh My God You Suck.
You really want to lynch a Vanilla Townie that much?
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Pesco not being voted? In my RVS? It's more likely then you think
##Vote Pesco
Am I a cool kid now?
Nope. You're hot.
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/r/ catfight while we're here
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##Vote Edible
Obiviously No Lynch-tan is your buddy and you're just trying to defend her.
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You really want to lynch a Vanilla Townie that much?
##Vote: Khorneish Game Hen
Roleclaims? In my RVS? It's more likely than you think.
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##Vote UncertainKitten
I feel left out! Now I have someone to yell at!
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WHAT THE FUCK UK!? WHY ARE YOU VOTING ME! YOU EVEN KNOW MY FUCKING ALIGNMENT! WHAT THE HELL!? *INSERT STRING OF EXPLETIVES HERE!* I HATE YOU AND YOUR MOTHER! Y-YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE A GOOD REASON TO VOTE ME! YOU KNOW WHAT!?
##Vote UncertainKitten
See how YOU like it!
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U..u..umu...s-s-sorry UK...I-I didn't mean to hurt your feelings...
/me looks like she's about to cry
##Unvote, Vote Zakeri
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Okay this spread of votes is irritating. Only one person with more than one on them.
##Unvote: Zengar
##Vote: pesco47
Multiple people with multiple votes is always interesting, and I don't feel particularly inclined to vote for Seniwac anyway. Pesco is the most likely candidate to be a detriment down the line so sure why the hell not.
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##vote Nietz
Obvious choice.
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##Vote: Khorneish Game Hen
Roleclaims? In my RVS? It's more likely than you think.
And what's so wrong with roleclaiming early?
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It gives scum information they don't need to know.
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##Vote: Khorneish Game Hen
Roleclaims? In my RVS? It's more likely than you think.
And what's so wrong with roleclaiming early?
Why did you want to claim so early then?
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How did Kilga ninja my post with such a huge time gap ???
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It gives scum information they don't need to know.
The Day's still early. I would believe Scum would attempt to find Power-Roles before killing a Vanilla Townie.
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Which is why telling them you're a Vanilla Townie helps them because now they know where not to look.
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Which is why telling them you're a Vanilla Townie helps them because now they know where not to look.
This.
Yeah, I noticed seni's claim, but I kinda filed it away for future consideration. Apparently we are all going to discuss this now. As not to be left in the dust and such, I'll put my stance on it.
The initial claim was scummy. His challenges for why it was scummy make me lean slightly town...at this moment in time. I don't have a meta of him so I don't know his relative skill level, however. So I could just be being taken, so to speak.
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Yeah judging Seniwac by his future actions is fine for now.
Pre-emptive theory that Chen is Alice's alt.
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I don't see how offhandedly roleclaiming VT in RVS helps town at all. Why would you do that? Also, I like how you're pretty much putting the safety of yourself over Power Roles, assuming you're telling the truth.
Edible plops down a joke vote when there's stuff to talk about. Whoo!
UK: Why did you purposely ignore the roleclaim?
##Unvote
##Vote: UK for ignoring the roleclaim, and then talking about it only after other people started talking about it. Seems opportunistic. Her stance on it is pretty wishy-washy too.
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UK: Why did you purposely ignore the roleclaim?
Because it didn't matter either way. At best it was good for future evidence provided Seniwac was scummy. What could I have done with it? It was best filed away.
##Vote: UK for ignoring the roleclaim, and then talking about it only after other people started talking about it. Seems opportunistic. Her stance on it is pretty wishy-washy too.
Wishy washy? No, it's quite solid. He has slight town points, despite the initial scumminess.
Further, something feels off about your post. I WANT to say opportunism but it doesn't fit...but it gives me bad vibes beyond the vote.
For now I'll follow up with: May I assume that you find Seniwac less scummy than me at this time, despite your apparent stance on his roleclaim? Further, may I ask the purpose in reiterating the questions already asked and answered?
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How does Sodium not feel opportunist?
Vote staying.
For now I'll follow up with: May I assume that you find Seniwac less scummy than me at this time, despite your apparent stance on his roleclaim? Further, may I ask the purpose in reiterating the questions already asked and answered?
Agreed.
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I don't see how offhandedly roleclaiming VT in RVS helps town at all. Why would you do that? Also, I like how you're pretty much putting the safety of yourself over Power Roles, assuming you're telling the truth.
Edible plops down a joke vote when there's stuff to talk about. Whoo!
UK: Why did you purposely ignore the roleclaim?
##Unvote
##Vote: UK for ignoring the roleclaim, and then talking about it only after other people started talking about it. Seems opportunistic. Her stance on it is pretty wishy-washy too.
How are Power Roles threatened by my roleclaim? That is based on assuming that the Scum believe the claim, even if it was true.
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How does Sodium not feel opportunist?
No one else dancing to the tune first. He's pioneering the charge against me. I'm not sure if it can precisely be called opportunism.
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How are Power Roles threatened by my roleclaim? That is based on assuming that the Scum believe the claim, even if it was true.
Scum hope to hit a power role with their night attacks, and if they knew you to be vanilla townie, that would mean that they'd be less likely to attack you, and therefore more likely to hit a power role. Now, it's true that you could actually be a power role fakeclaiming vanilla townie so that scum are less likely to hit you (which is arguably self-defeating since everyone is aware of the possibility of that gambit anyway), but in that case you're lying to the town, too. There's no reason to draw attention to yourself like that when if you hadn't roleclaimed at all, you'd blend right in with everyone else anyway.
As always, those ignoring a fine exit from RVS get my suspicion (Kitten, Kilga, Edible), but as much as it bugs me, the flips after every game where it happens seem to prove that it's not a very reliable scumtell. Sodium's still justified for making it an early voting point, though.
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I dunno, you could've asked him about it?
I found your post wishy-washy because you worded it in a way that made it sound like "He did something scummy, but then he did some town like things afterwords, which makes me lean town, but could go back to being scummy in the future." Also, I didn't like the "I don't have a meta for him, so I don't know his skill level, so yeah". Why would meta or skill level make such a big difference? It seemed like a poor way of justifying you not putting a solid stance.
Sorta. I'd put you equal with Seniwac, but I voted you because he already has a number of votes on him. Well, of the people that actually posted non-joke posts.
Half the time, the stuff I write in a post is for my own benefit so I can see my thoughts written(typed out).
Seniwac hasn't answered "Why would you do that?". I want his thought process while he made that post.
Oh yeah, right. Forgot to ask about this.
So I could just be being taken, so to speak.
...What does this mean? >_> The "be being" doesn't help.
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Seniwac/Game Hen:
Scum knows where not to look then. You're claim gives scum a reason not to attack you, which means that they can ignore you, and have a smaller group of players to look at when looking for power roles. A lot of people have already said this. I don't think assuming scum assume it's true is much of a stretch, as townies don't need to lie, unless you're not a townie.
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As always, those ignoring a fine exit from RVS get my suspicion (Kitten, Kilga, Edible), but as much as it bugs me, the flips after every game where it happens seem to prove that it's not a very reliable scumtell. Sodium's still justified for making it an early voting point, though.
Hey, Sodium, you remember that wishy washiness you were talking about?
HERE'S a good example of it ^-^
I found your post wishy-washy because you worded it in a way that made it sound like "He did something scummy, but then he did some town like things afterwords, which makes me lean town, but could go back to being scummy in the future." Also, I didn't like the "I don't have a meta for him, so I don't know his skill level, so yeah". Why would meta or skill level make such a big difference? It seemed like a poor way of justifying you not putting a solid stance.
Ah, but you see, why should I solidly say he's town four pages into the game? And then I should just sit on it? No matter what he does? I...don't understand your logic sodium
As for skill level, at certain skill levels claiming vanilla is impermissible. However, meta makes exceptions to those skill levels. Having neither, I give him benefit of the doubt. Hence why it would have been useless to comment on at the time.
...What does this mean? >_> The "be being" doesn't help.
Taken for a fool.
Duh
Scum knows where not to look then. You're claim gives scum a reason not to attack you, which means that they can ignore you, and have a smaller group of players to look at when looking for power roles. A lot of people have already said this. I don't think assuming scum assume it's true is much of a stretch, as townies don't need to lie, unless you're not a townie.
Though it's arguable because of that very assumption a townie lie CAN potentially be advantageous, provided they STICK WITH IT and assume it's the truth.
but that gets into games players probably shouldn't play to maximize their team's chances of winning ^-^
Seniwac hasn't answered "Why would you do that?". I want his thought process while he made that post.
I thought he had. Especially since your post already has his answer incorporated into it. I don't agree with his reasoning, but if feels mildly justified in a slightly twisted view.
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##Unvote
I want to see Seniwac's reasoning before deciding if he's being scummy or not. I mean, he may be diverting the attention somewhere else, which is very suspicious, or attracting attention which would be... I'm not sure, I'd rather see if that's the case before thinking the implications.
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The Second "Things are heating up" Votecount
EX Na2O2 (L-6): Pesco
Suwako J. Moriya (L-6): Kiro
Kiro (L-6): Suwako J. Moriya
uµ(L-6): Khorneish Game Hen
Khorneish Game Hen(L-5): uµ, Serpentarius
Hizengar Byakuren (L-7): Kilgamayan
Pesco (L-6): EX Na2O2, Kilgamayan
Edible (L-6): Kitten4u
Kilgamayan (L-7):Hizengar Byakuren
UncertainKitten (L-5): UncertainKitten, Zakeri, Ex Na2O2
Zakeri (L-∞): Uncertain Kitten
56.5 hours left in the day
*italics are unvotes
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UncertainKitten (L-5): UncertainKitten, Zakeri, Ex Na2O2
Zakeri (L-∞): Uncertain Kitten
I see an interesting mechanic here. Let us discuss how to abuse it.
Voting the mod is a vote for yourself...hmm...
Nope, nothing comes to mind ^-^;
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Though it's arguable because of that very assumption a townie lie CAN potentially be advantageous, provided they STICK WITH IT and assume it's the truth.
but that gets into games players probably shouldn't play to maximize their team's chances of winning ^-^
Hey, guess where that got me last game.
I found your post wishy-washy because you worded it in a way that made it sound like "He did something scummy, but then he did some town like things afterwords, which makes me lean town, but could go back to being scummy in the future." Also, I didn't like the "I don't have a meta for him, so I don't know his skill level, so yeah". Why would meta or skill level make such a big difference? It seemed like a poor way of justifying you not putting a solid stance.
I see your angle. But what is arguing with UK about her methods going to prove?
Needs more posting from the guys with their status as hidden.
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Hey, guess where that got me last game.
Wouldn't know, I was MIA.
What happened? Cliff's Notes version please
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http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1128.0 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1128.0)
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Maybe wishy-washy isn't the right term, but you were going back and forth on what you thought of him. Unless I misread it, you said that he's scummy, then townie, then neutral within two sentences.
As for skill level, at certain skill levels claiming vanilla is impermissible. However, meta makes exceptions to those skill levels. Having neither, I give him benefit of the doubt. Hence why it would have been useless to comment on at the time.
...Alright then? Couldn't you assume what his skill level is, or even better, asked him directly. I'll give you the Meta thing though.
I mean generally the best thing for a townie to do is not lie. They can, but they'd have to know what exactly they're planning, doing, etc., and seeing as Seniwac is asking why claiming VT for no reason in RVS is bad, I doubt that he has a plan. Even if he did have a plan, surely he would've considered the negative effects on town.
[notgameaffecting]4 pages? Awesome people use 50 posts per page, so this would be page 2. =3[/notgameaffecting]
@Mod:No Fair, we need an infinite number of votes to lynch you.
Keeping vote for now.
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Well I certainly wasn't expecting that to be a huge deal. Anyway...
Seniwac said that he was a newbie in the sign up topic, so make sure all of you keep that in mind. Keeping that in mind I don't see it as all that scummy since roleclaiming early is a common newbie mistake (to the point that the more experienced players playing in newbie games on MS say not to do so their first post a lot of the time). So, I didn't see the claim as particularly unusual, hence my lack of commenting on it until now. And since he's posted more it looks like he really didn't know that claiming early was bad, so I still see the claim as a null tell.
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Maybe wishy-washy isn't the right term, but you were going back and forth on what you thought of him. Unless I misread it, you said that he's scummy, then townie, then neutral within two sentences.
If you read it properly, you'd realize the initial claim was scummy. But it wasn't something I wanted to bring up, prefering to see if future behavior supported this analysis. However, his subsequent questioning gave him slight town points. Slightly town is pretty damn close to neutral and up for revision if he decides to be scummy. Thusly, my stance is CLEARLY slightly town, but quite mutable. Perhaps elaborating the last part was unnecessary.
...Alright then? Couldn't you assume what his skill level is, or even better, asked him directly. I'll give you the Meta thing though.
If I wanted to get the most inaccurate, aggrandized, and biased view possible, yes, I could ask him his skill level. His answer will be affected by the situation at hand.
I have to basically work with a blank slate here.
4 pages? Awesome people use 50 posts per page, so this would be page 2. =3
I'd rather set it to 15-20 myself. We have that option?
I mean generally the best thing for a townie to do is not lie. They can, but they'd have to know what exactly they're planning, doing, etc., and seeing as Seniwac is asking why claiming VT for no reason in RVS is bad, I doubt that he has a plan. Even if he did have a plan, surely he would've considered the negative effects on town.
Well, the obvious plan has already been enumerated. But, either way, it's a pile of WIFOM. He has the advantage of not having a meta, so it's harder to determine layers or WIFOM.
Seniwac said that he was a newbie in the sign up topic, so make sure all of you keep that in mind.
He's also been banned from mafia games here in the past. He does have some experience. But it was before my time, hence my lack of data
Keeping that in mind I don't see it as all that scummy since roleclaiming early is a common newbie mistake (to the point that the more experienced players playing in newbie games on MS say not to do so their first post a lot of the time).
Intriguing. I didn't really run into that but I rarely play with a full set of newbies
So, I didn't see the claim as particularly unusual, hence my lack of commenting on it until now. And since he's posted more it looks like he really didn't know that claiming early was bad, so I still see the claim as a null tell.
Good call, overall
You SURE you're new?
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http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1128.0
I'm sorry, you must have missed the "Cliff's Notes version please" portion of my post. I have neither the time nor the inclination to read a game I had nothing to do with. Perhaps you can breifly explain the situation you alluded to?
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He's also been banned from mafia games here in the past. He does have some experience. But it was before my time, hence my lack of data
Hm, I didn't know this. But since it really looks like he didn't know it was bad to claim early I'm inclined to believe that the claim is a newbie tell instead of a scum tell.
You SURE you're new?
Yep
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Hm, I didn't know this. But since it really looks like he didn't know it was bad to claim early I'm inclined to believe that the claim is a newbie tell instead of a scum tell.
I'd just be careful of these assumptions. However, my current stance is one very similar involving such benefit of the doubt.
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Claim's dumb. Dude's probably town. Will be ignoring him for the rest of the day.
##Unvote, ##Vote: Serp This is kinda obvious, why're you voting him?
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##Unvote
I want to see Seniwac's reasoning before deciding if he's being scummy or not. I mean, he may be diverting the attention somewhere else, which is very suspicious, or attracting attention which would be... I'm not sure, I'd rather see if that's the case before thinking the implications.
What could I possibly be diverting attention from? This is the only topic in discussion, so I can't possibly divert the topic from itself to itself.
So explain this a bit more .
##UNVOTE
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EDIT:
S-Moriya: It may have been anti-town and scummy, but I did it to end RVS and promote discussion.
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EDIT:
S-Moriya: It may have been anti-town and scummy, but I did it to end RVS and promote discussion.
...
##Unvote, Vote Khorneish Game Hen
Doing something scummy on purpose to "end RVS" is RIDICULOUSLY useless. You actually get good data when something NATURAL happens to end it!
I'm not sure if you are just antitown or scummy, but with that you kinda trashed your newbie excuse.
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Anti-town, yes. Scummy, not really...
Although actually that makes me change my mind. ##Unvote, ##Vote: Khorneish Game Hen. That's a silly excuse, RVS ends on it's own, there's no need to rush it by giving up tactical ground to scum. Can't believe that was a conscious townie decision, ergo you're lying, ergo die.
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SUP UK
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SUP UK
Hai thar! Just passing through, taking your reasons to vote someone before you've actually posted them ^-^
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Something very familiar to the current situation happened when what's-his-name claimed Town Bomb in Yume Nikki early in the day, and we spent the rest of the day Benny Hilling him.
In short, it's a pretty pointless newbie tactic, but I'm gonna call it a null tell for now because it's not really setting off my scumdar.
UK bothers me. Maybe I'm becoming allergic to cats again... maybe not.
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...
##Unvote, Vote Khorneish Game Hen
Doing something scummy on purpose to "end RVS" is RIDICULOUSLY useless. You actually get good data when something NATURAL happens to end it!
I'm not sure if you are just antitown or scummy, but with that you kinda trashed your newbie excuse.
And how did this thrash the newbie excuse? Would an experienced player admit that consciously? Also why vote on me when you seem unsecure on your point. And why would this data gathered be unnatural?
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gorram, forgot my vote
##VOTE: UNCERTAINKITTEN
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A newbie probably would not know what RVS even stands for.
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/r/ catfight while we're here
mrow ffft
ITT UK hydras with herself?
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Serpentarius: Why is KGH worth voting for his roleclaim? (No, I did not just answer my own question.)
Pesco 84 is scummy too. Contrast Kilga 87 and UK 88.
As always, those ignoring a fine exit from RVS get my suspicion (Kitten, Kilga, Edible), but as much as it bugs me, the flips after every game where it happens seem to prove that it's not a very reliable scumtell.
...what? I'm reading this as saying that people are scummy for not dwelling on KGH's premature claim when doing so would be anti-Town in the event that some scum didn't catch it. Seriously?
Zengar 98 is a good example of "waffling". Pay attention, new players.
Kitten4u needs to post about something other than KGH.
Suwako Moriya (the player, not the character) is my hero for beating me to the vote that's going to come at the end of this post.
I don't think it's implausible for KGH to have deliberately claimed; this is not his first game and he's not completely inexperienced with Mafia (in fact, if this is Seniwac he's actually on the blacklist). I don't have a serious problem with the reasoning behind the wagon, but I don't buy it personally.
##Unvote: Khorneish Game Hen
##Season And Bake For 50 Minutes: Khorneish Game Hen
##Vote: Serpentarius (L-6)
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And how did this thrash the newbie excuse? Would an experienced player admit that consciously? Also why vote on me when you seem unsecure on your point. And why would this data gathered be unnatural?
Well, the fact that you are trying to WIFOM about what an experienced player would do when you are trying to pretend to not be one is one thing. Secondly the fact that you were intentionally trying to end the RVS with something you KNEW was anti town both damages your chances of being town as well as the odds you are a newbie.
As for data gathered, the idea is, if you WERE a townie doing something scummy to get us out of RVS, you just took a bullet for scum fucking up by accident.
Your OMGUS is appreciated and tastes like strawberry ice cream.
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Seniwac: Well, there may be no other topic, but it could encourage searching for someone else. At least that's a possible interpretation, I may be wrong. Now, doing this just for ending RVS quickly tells me you want to see a fast lynch. Rushed, even.
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ITT UK hydras with herself?
I should do this sometime on MS. TehVariable and forbiddanlight hydra!
Good point on Serpy, but I REALLY don't like Seniwac's apparent familiarity with mafia yet STILL making a "newbie mistake"
Seniwac: Well, there may be no other topic, but it could encourage searching for someone else. At least that's a possible interpretation, I may be wrong. Now, doing this just for ending RVS quickly tells me you want to see a fast lynch. Rushed, even.
This point is weaker, I doubt that was his intent as either alignment as a quickly ended RVS wouldn't necessarily have this follow. He'd also have to know that it'd be his lynched that was rushed if anything.
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I don't know why I bother posting at all when UK says everything I want to say.
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And how did this thrash the newbie excuse? Would an experienced player admit that consciously? Also why vote on me when you seem unsecure on your point. And why would this data gathered be unnatural?
Well, the fact that you are trying to WIFOM about what an experienced player would do when you are trying to pretend to not be one is one thing. Secondly the fact that you were intentionally trying to end the RVS with something you KNEW was anti town both damages your chances of being town as well as the odds you are a newbie.
As for data gathered, the idea is, if you WERE a townie doing something scummy to get us out of RVS, you just took a bullet for scum fucking up by accident.
Your OMGUS is appreciated and tastes like strawberry ice cream.
You still haven't answered why you voted while being unsure about my alignment. The only thing you are sure about is my apparent experience.
And what is there to say that scum won't make another mistake?
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You still haven't answered why you voted while being unsure about my alignment. The only thing you are sure about is my apparent experience.
And what is there to say that scum won't make another mistake?
Assumably, we'd all pass Turing tests. We are all human. Humans make mistakes by nature.
As for why I voted while unsure of your alignment, the only person who's alignment I know for sure is my own. While I was only leaning somewhat scum on you, your subsequent reactions to my vote lead me further to believe you are caught mafia.
So, if I may ask, are you voting me because you are 100% certain I am scum?
In which case, may I assume you will never unvote me?
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This point is weaker, I doubt that was his intent as either alignment as a quickly ended RVS wouldn't necessarily have this follow. He'd also have to know that it'd be his lynched that was rushed if anything.
Yeah, now that you point out that... Eh, I'm keeping my vote empty for now. It's still a possibility, so Seniwac's not fully clean yet.
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Serpentarius: Why is KGH worth voting for his roleclaim? (No, I did not just answer my own question.)
Notice that I hadn't had time to give the customary offering to the RVS gods when KGH made his post. I could've called him out on an anti-town roleclaim and then random voted on someone else, but since strictly speaking, RVS was over by that point, it wouldn't have been useful to do so.
As always, those ignoring a fine exit from RVS get my suspicion (Kitten, Kilga, Edible), but as much as it bugs me, the flips after every game where it happens seem to prove that it's not a very reliable scumtell.
...what? I'm reading this as saying that people are scummy for not dwelling on KGH's premature claim when doing so would be anti-Town in the event that some scum didn't catch it. Seriously?
I think my wording was pretty clear, but I have no idea what you're saying here. "saying that people are scummy for not dwelling on KGH's premature claim," yes. "when doing so would be anti-Town in the event that some scum didn't catch it," what? My point was that even though ignoring statements that could legitimately bring the town out of RVS is not a strong scumtell, it's still not a townie move. What did you think I was saying, and why was it voteworthy?
Actually:
Good point on Serpy
Before you answer, I'd like Kitten to say just what she thought your point was, 'cause I literally can't see it.
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Before you answer, I'd like Kitten to say just what she thought your point was, 'cause I literally can't see it.
Wafflyness
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Two cats in this shindig.
Please do not refer to UK as "Kitten", for sanity purposes. :|
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The "Omigosh! There's kittens EVERYWHERE" Votecount
EX Na2O2 (L-6): Pesco
Suwako J. Moriya (L-6): Kiro
Kiro (L-7): Suwako J. Moriya
u?(L-7): Khorneish Game Hen
Khorneish Game Hen(L-4): u?, Serpentarius, Uncertain Kitten, Suwako J. Moriya
Hizengar Byakuren (L-7): Kilgamayan
Pesco (L-6): EX Na2O2, Kilgamayan
Edible (L-6): Kitten4u
Kilgamayan (L-7):Hizengar Byakuren
UncertainKitten (L-5): UncertainKitten, Ex Na2O2, Khorneish Game Hen
Serpentarius (L-7): Suwako J. Moriya, U?
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Zengar is not just scummy, but awesomely scummy. 8)
KGH is doing an awesome job of validating his own wagon.
Notice that I hadn't had time to give the customary offering to the RVS gods when KGH made his post. I could've called him out on an anti-town roleclaim and then random voted on someone else, but since strictly speaking, RVS was over by that point, it wouldn't have been useful to do so.
One. Stop saying things like "RVS was over". There is no such thing as a clearly defined random voting stage.
Two. I don't care that you didn't get a chance to random vote.
Three. You didn't answer the question. As of that time, what was anti-Town about that roleclaim?
As to the second quote, again. The concept of a clearly defined random voting stage is a delusion you're clinging to at best and a prop for accusing three people who made some pretty Town reactions to KGH's trip at worst.
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@Edible: Don't just pop in like that and not comment on who's scum~
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@Zakeri: SUDDENLY, KITTENS! THOUSANDS OF THEM!
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Explain why you believe my roleclaim was not anti-town and RVS's non-existance.
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Explain why you believe my roleclaim was not anti-town and RVS's non-existance.
Before I answer the first one, I would like to know your motivation for asking.
As for the second one, notice that I said there does not exist a clearly defined RVS.
Nobody was under any obligation to post about your statement after you made it, especially in this case.
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Before I answer the first one, I would like to know your motivation for asking.
As for the second one, notice that I said there does not exist a clearly defined RVS.
Nobody was under any obligation to post about your statement after you made it, especially in this case.
Motivation is that why would you believe my statement to be not anti-town when there's been a clear reason and confirmation that the statement was meant to be anti-town.
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Please do not refer to UK as "Kitten", for sanity purposes. :|
...
Good point. Duly noted.
As of that time, what was anti-Town about that roleclaim?
If he's town, then that post is an attempt to divert night kills away from him - it's an attempt to look less useful to the town. If he's vanilla townie, then if he's less likely to get killed by scum, the town's power roles must be more likely to get hit by scum.
As to the second quote, again. The concept of a clearly defined random voting stage is a delusion you're clinging to at best and a prop for accusing three people who made some pretty Town reactions to KGH's trip at worst.
Firstly, I see no way at all that your second quote up there could be interpreted to mean this.
Secondly, you're completely wrong. When a person posts without commenting on any relevant points, that's called active lurking. In the beginning of the game, this is excusable, because there are no relevant points to discuss. Once a discussion-worthy point pops up, posting without weighing in on it is equivalent to just trying to slide by under the radar and let someone else expose himself to flak. As I said, this is more common than I'd like, but just because townies can and do make this mistake doesn't mean that it's not scummy.
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Please do not refer to UK as "Kitten", for sanity purposes. :|
This really. I'm getting confused.
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...And suddenly my opinion on KGH changes. The only reason I considered the claim a null tell was because it looked like you really didn't know that claiming early was bad. But you knew it was bad? Seriously? At this point I'm just repeating what other people have said, so I'll stop. Anyway, this quote stands out to me.
And what is there to say that scum won't make another mistake?
What was the other mistake(s)?
##Unvote
##Vote Khorneish Game Hen
Kitten4u needs to post about something other than KGH.
I haven't had much to say about other people, but okay.
Currently UK and Suwako look town to me. Only person besides KGH that made me raise my eyebrow is Zengar because just about everything he says sounds very non-commital to me. Everyone else looks nuetral to me.
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Okay, Serp. Do you contend that there was a duty to explain to everyone (scum included) that the Game Hen had written himself completely off the NK possibility list for the rest of the game as soon as possible?
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@KGH: My issue can be clearly seen here: If he's town, then that post is an attempt to divert night kills away from him - it's an attempt to look less useful to the town. If he's vanilla townie, then if he's less likely to get killed by scum, the town's power roles must be more likely to get hit by scum.
Notice that nowhere has anyone considered that you are scum based on your early roleclaim, which is the most important part of being a good lynch candidate in the first place.
There *is* motivation for scum to commit an intentional slip like that, namely that it would explain in the future why they are never night-killed. However, I actually would put it past you to do that. If I'm wrong on this, you win two Happy Smile points and whatever's left of my dignity on this site.
This is why I have said that while I don't disagree with the case on you, I do not think it will lead to a scumlynch.
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But they're not lynching me on the early roleclaim. Their case is more on the fact I did this to stop RVS and my hilarious attempts to defend myself after.
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Okay, Serp. Do you contend that there was a duty to explain to everyone (scum included) that the Game Hen had written himself completely off the NK possibility list for the rest of the game as soon as possible?
You seem to be implying that if I hadn't pointed out that scum should try to kill power roles, they wouldn't have realized it themselves. Anyway, to answer your question, yes, that falls within townies' duty to publicly analyze everything they see.
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But they're not lynching me on the early roleclaim. Their case is more on the fact I did this to stop RVS and my hilarious attempts to defend myself after.
And it sounds like you're enjoying every minute of it.
@Serpentarius: I disagree on a couple of levels. However, I don't think this discussion can go much farther than that.
I'd actually like for Kilga and Edible to say something on this subject. In the meantime, I'm going to go hunt the newbscum.
Unvote: Serpentarius
Vote: Hizengar Byakuren (L-6)
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Edit because Zakeri likes being pounded.
##Unvote: Serpentarius
##Vote: Hizengar Byakuren
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Whoa, Edible. 1/2ths of the posts you made are joke posts. The other 1/4 is saying something is a nulltell while mentioning vague suspicion. The other other 1/4 is telling people not to mix up UK and Kitten(I'll admit that this is important). You sure are being useful. When did you turn into Pesco?
Seniwac: ...Ending RVS early by doing something stupid is moronic. Usually, the guy who did said stupid thing is lynched Day 1.
I did a re-read, and combined with UK's most recent posts, I'm removing my vote off of UK because my case is sorta dead, and there are bigger fish to fry. There's Edible who's acting like Pesco, Seniwac who is in general, sucking, and then there's Chen who hasn't even posted yet. Oh, and Pesco, but it goes without saying, but this time, he doesn't seem outlandishly anti-town. Zengar is also pretty bad with his waffles on Seniwac, and he has little to offer aside from said waffles on Seniwac.
##Unvote
##Vote Khorneish Game Hen (L-2)
He's sorta like Pesco. Does something stupid early game, and then acts smug about it. However, we have added "lol I was endan RVS early" and "I'm newb, but I'm really not" and "askan questions people have answered". L-2 shouldn't be too much to worry about, as it's L-1 and Hammer votes that are the major steps imo.
##Cattle Prod Edible (person I would vote next as a prod)
Edible, are you going to say who you think is scum aside from extremely vague suspicions? Are you going to contribute? You can do better then this.
Where be the Third Cat Kitten, Chen Yakumo? This is getting into stupid territory.
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L-2 shouldn't be too much to worry about, as it's L-1 and Hammer votes that are the major steps imo.
Do remember that scum can daytalk. It's probably not as much of a problem now, but it will be in later days.
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Um... Sodium, why is KGH more likely to be scum than any of the people you just mentioned?
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I'd actually like for Kilga and Edible to say something on this subject. In the meantime, I'm going to go hunt the newbscum.
I already did. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1918.msg74438#msg74438) It smacks of newbtown attempting to generate discussion via silliness, but his mannerisms slightly indicate otherwise. Thus, null tell. It's something to talk about, certainly, but I feel we're barking up the wrong tree (it just happens to be the only tree in the park at the moment).
@Sodium: Nice hardline investigation of me for early day 1. Keep up the good work, soldier. You're scum, right?
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Seniwac: You saying you're Vanilla Townie just introduces a WIFOM that's unneeded. There's more Townies than Scum so you're just going to confuse Town more than Mafia. Hell, you introducing that could go as far as saying, because Scum have no need to attack me, it shouldn't be unusual if I never die. Which is problematic if you're actually Scum. Man, this whole thing is dumb, but not completely farfetched. And the problem was that it was willful.
Oh, umu just stated this right before me. I'd vote KGH as well, but this focus is getting too narrow so might as well branch out.
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Sodium is jumping out at me for saying UK is ignoring that roleclaim. It should be obvious that she's not going to ignore it completely. Also, there was nothing wrong with voting for KGH that early even if you saw KGH had more votes than UK and you thought the two were about equal in suspiciousness. You're a little too conscious of where your vote is when the wagons are nowhere near the limit.
Regarding Serp and his fascination with the boundary of RVS and srsbsns: he's did it last game and got hounded early. Well, he was the SK though. But I'd chalk it up to his personal play style. I don't disagree with his point about Townies duty to publically analyze things because we're all doing it, including you, umu, in #139.
But I'm going to vote Zengar. Call it bullying, tough love, or whatever, but take a stand on something, anything. You sitting back (twice if I recall correctly) is like trying to calculate the most opportune lynch to go for. And we can't have that lategame, so I'm getting on you for it now. No one is going to be quicklynched as long as you don't send someone to L-1 so let's see an original opinion of your own come forth.
##Unvote Suwako J. Moriya
##Vote Zengar
Goddamnit umu, why are you getting these words in before me?! Only Pesco was able to ninja me before.
Cut by Sodium: Umm, hmm. I don't want to be cut anymore. Let me get this out first and I'll think about your latest post.
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I already did. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1918.msg74438#msg74438) It smacks of newbtown attempting to generate discussion via silliness, but his mannerisms slightly indicate otherwise. Thus, null tell. It's something to talk about, certainly, but I feel we're barking up the wrong tree (it just happens to be the only tree in the park at the moment).
Oh right, now I remember.
I think I asked you earlier to talk about virtually anything else. Or maybe I'm just imagining I posted that.
Either way, please direct us to a better proverbial tree.
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Oh damn, forgot about that. There hasn't been daytalk in a while(last 4/5 games didn't have it, I think). Well, if anyone feels especially uncomfortable with L-2, then I'll remove the vote(although some people might just remove their vote).
Umu: Edible, while being completely useless, hasn't done anything anti-town/scummy except not posting. Pesco isn't being outlandishly anti-town as I said(one could argue that he's going against his meta, but I'm glad he's not sabotaging town efforts), and Zengar...well, what I said was mainly a warning to him to TALK ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE. But yeah, he's probably second in terms of scumminess actually, but I am giving him a slight newbie leniency. If he keeps up his tunnel waffling, then yeah. Edible is my secondary (prod) vote because he's experienced player... not doing anything. And he's seemingly ignored by other people.
Meanwhile, KGH is aggravating me somewhat(just like other Day 1 idiots, except this time I'm actually here for Day 1 and not replacing on Day 2), and he's somewhat proven not to be a newbie. Oh, and he's as smug as Pesco right now, after doing something similar to what Pesco does.
Oh yeah, just because I want to check something...
@Mod: Is there any role in this game that has dying as a victory condition(ie Jester)
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@SP: One could also argue that Pesco hasn't been awake for most of the festivities so far. I think he wakes up... in about half an hour, at the least.
What is the difference IYO between Zengar and Edible in terms of what they talk about?
Is your vote on KGH mostly because you think he's annoying and an acceptable loss, or because he's more likely to be scum?
Also, my signature is terribly out of my character <.<
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@SP: One could also argue that Pesco hasn't been awake for most of the festivities so far. I think he wakes up... in about half an hour, at the least.
What is the difference IYO between Zengar and Edible in terms of what they talk about?
Is your vote on KGH mostly because you think he's annoying and an acceptable loss, or because he's more likely to be scum?
Also, my signature is terribly out of my character <.<
Okay, I gtg sleep soon now, but I'll make some quick answers:
1. I guess you could argue that, but I can't exactly see his future actions, can I? Uh, if he starts acting like Pesco, then I'll put him up there.
2. Edible is useless in that he isn't posting anything that resembles analysis when we know he can. Zengar is useless in that he's... tunneling and waffling on his tunnel target. It just doesn't work, and it's horrible.
3. Both. I do think he's scum, but I'll admit that part of my vote is also because he's annoying, acceptable loss, etc. Mostly the scum part though(65/35 perhaps(although the annoyance part is still a bit big...))
4. Haha...Oh wow@your signature. XD
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Oh right this game.
One moment!
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Sleep will now commence. I will hopefully return in the morning and do my famous catch up posts.
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Seniwac makes a bunch of newbie mistakes and people train all over him. This sounds a lot like last game. (History lesson: Seniwac has never played a significant Mafia game here. He was Lynched for repeatedly trolling the night time minigames.)
Serpentarius places a lot of stock in the RVS transition and he catches flak for it. This also sounds a lot like last game.
Zengar suspicious for unvoting without revoting and trying to feel out the Seniwac situation rather than take a stance one way or the other.
Edible suspicious for saying little during actiony time.
Zengar suspicious again for useless waffling.
Edible suspicious more for saying nothing during more actiony time.
Zengar train has a chance to go somewhere and I like the people on it. Let's push it a little further.
##Unvote: pesco47
##Vote: Zengar
You're claim
Pointing this out because I love this mistake.
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OK, looks like it's time to analyze everything a little further.
Seniwac: After some more thinking, I do realize that it may be a newbish stance (I kno rite?)... however my paranoid mind tells me that this is just to lift up some dust. I'll keep this in mind, but you're now more clear.
UK: I'm... not getting anything, really. No scum vibes over here.
Sodium: Seniwac being the new Pesco? I'm not quite getting you there. But then, I'm not 100% sure of Pesco's usual scumself, so yeah.
Serp: I'm not liking how your opinion is just grounded on what happened before and after RVS (And how is this wall defined). Like everything else, this is just a thought.
Suwako, Edible and Pesco: Poast moar plz
umu: Nothing here as well. I'd like to see what your definition of newbscum is.
Kiro: As I mentioned on 128, I already put down the Quicklynch theory. In fact, I'm realizing I can only see everything on the worse way possible. Fixing myself~
Kitten (NotUK) : I don't have enough material to say much. About the non-commital part, that's because I'm trying to keep my paranoid side at bay. I'll try to be more concise.
Kilga: You're openly bandwagoning me mostly for the people that are also voting me? That sounds opportunistic. However, I want to see what are the reactions to this post.
Thus, my vote remains empty, but not for long. And now, time to pop a pill, or something.
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Kilga: You're openly bandwagoning me mostly for the people that are also voting me? That sounds opportunistic.
Nope, but thanks for the misrep all the same!
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Oh noes! Pesco agrees with Kilga! The world ends
with you!
##Unvote
##Vote Zengar
More post will come in the duration of my day.
@mod: Prod status on Orange?
Technically not yet, but I'm worried since I have yet to hear anything. Sending Prod.
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The "On second thought, maybe we do need more kittens" Votecount
EX Na2O2 (L-7): Pesco
Suwako J. Moriya (L-7): Kiro
Kiro (L-7): Suwako J. Moriya
u?(L-7): Khorneish Game Hen
Khorneish Game Hen(L-2): u?, Serpentarius, Uncertain Kitten, Suwako J. Moriya, Kitten4u, Ex Na2O2
Hizengar Byakuren (L-3): Kilgamayan, U?, Kiro, Kilgamayan, Pesco
Pesco (L-7): EX Na2O2, Kilgamayan
Edible (L-7): Kitten4u
Kilgamayan (L-7):Hizengar Byakuren
UncertainKitten (L-6): UncertainKitten, Ex Na2O2, Khorneish Game Hen
Serpentarius (L-7): Suwako J. Moriya, U?
Khorneish Game Hen is at L-2
Hizengar Byakuren is at L-3
There are still 48.5 hours left in the day
@Mod: Is there any role in this game that has dying as a victory condition(ie Jester)
-There are only four possible win conditions in this game, only two or three of which will be active at any time.
--1. Town: You win once all Scum and the Serial Killer are out of the game
--2. Mafia: You win once you control a majority of the vote and the Serial Killer is out of the game
--3a. Serial Killer: You win once you reduce the town's numbers to yourself and one other person.
--3b. Survivor: You win if you remain alive at the end of the game.
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I see your angle. But what is arguing with UK about her methods going to prove?
I don't see Sodium's answer to this.
http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1128.0
I'm sorry, you must have missed the "Cliff's Notes version please" portion of my post. I have neither the time nor the inclination to read a game I had nothing to do with. Perhaps you can breifly explain the situation you alluded to?
Skip to the post-game talk. Stop being lazy.
Claim's dumb. Dude's probably town. Will be ignoring him for the rest of the day.
Why? To all three staements. Your jump on vote is a big turnaround in the space of 10 minutes and 3 posts.
Yeah, now that you point out that... Eh, I'm keeping my vote empty for now. It's still a possibility, so Seniwac's not fully clean yet.
Not voting Seniwac is fine, but not committing is scummy. You don't acually have a reason to keep your vote off.
Explain why you believe my roleclaim was not anti-town and RVS's non-existance.
Got to be honest, this does sound like crap I would say. Ultimately, null in worth and good enough for being hatelynched. And stop using double negatives. Linguistically bad senteces are now scummy in my book.
Breakfast
Um... Sodium, why is KGH more likely to be scum than any of the people you just mentioned?
@Sodium: Nice hardline investigation of me for early day 1. Keep up the good work, soldier. You're scum, right?
So yeah
Oh damn, forgot about that. There hasn't been daytalk in a while(last 4/5 games didn't have it, I think). Well, if anyone feels especially uncomfortable with L-2, then I'll remove the vote(although some people might just remove their vote).
What's the term for this here? Backtrack yes?
OK, looks like it's time to analyze everything a little further.
Seniwac: After some more thinking, I do realize that it may be a newbish stance (I kno rite?)... however my paranoid mind tells me that this is just to lift up some dust. I'll keep this in mind, but you're now more clear.
UK: I'm... not getting anything, really. No scum vibes over here.
Sodium: Seniwac being the new Pesco? I'm not quite getting you there. But then, I'm not 100% sure of Pesco's usual scumself, so yeah.
Serp: I'm not liking how your opinion is just grounded on what happened before and after RVS (And how is this wall defined). Like everything else, this is just a thought.
Suwako, Edible and Pesco: Poast moar plz
umu: Nothing here as well. I'd like to see what your definition of newbscum is.
Kiro: As I mentioned on 128, I already put down the Quicklynch theory. In fact, I'm realizing I can only see everything on the worse way possible. Fixing myself~
Kitten (NotUK) : I don't have enough material to say much. About the non-commital part, that's because I'm trying to keep my paranoid side at bay. I'll try to be more concise.
Kilga: You're openly bandwagoning me mostly for the people that are also voting me? That sounds opportunistic. However, I want to see what are the reactions to this post.
Thus, my vote remains empty, but not for long. And now, time to pop a pill, or something.
Words: Lots
Content: None
Sense: None
Vote: None
Why am I not on the list btw? I might not have been around when everyone was at peak, but I did say some stuff too. You can compile a list of waffling, but not point out who/where your strongest suspicions lie. Having a tough time finding scum when you're one isn't it?
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4 hours later, I'm ready to look at this thread again.
Sodium: No major opinion on your #144. Since you got it out before my post could see the light, you addressed some of my concerns already. Then... you say if anyone feels uncomfortable about KGH at L-2, you could remove your vote for them. That's NOT how it works man. And while you say you think KGH is scum, you tacking on the idea that he's also annoying or an acceptable loss makes me frown. Scumminess only. If you have to convince yourself with these other points, you're not scumhunting hard enough.
Edible: Yea, other than your null feeling about KGH, you're not taking the time to forge new ground. Bleh.
Zengar: Seriously, your outline in #156 may be an ok start for a newbie, but without a vote in place, I can't tell which point or person is the one you consider most important. So it sucks. You're not committing to anything so you can duck responsibility from a comment if it suddenly doesn't work in your favor. Words don't have as much weight to them unless you back them up with a vote. This is how scumhunting starts. You do that and I may remove my vote on you.
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Holy crap where the hell has that been the last 20 games.
Half-tempted to vote pesco because he's never done this as town.
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Holy crap where the hell has that been the last 20 games.
Half-tempted to vote pesco because he's never done this as town.
Bamboo Forest. So
(http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm272/pesco47/Tewi.jpg)
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umu: If you believe the wagon on me will not lead to a scumlynch, then why don't you disagree with it?
You believe that lynching me would be good for town? If so, in what way.
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You believe that lynching me would be good for town? If so, in what way.
Well, aside from bandwagon analysis that is always gotten from a lynch(null point really), there's how all you've been doing is trying to cover your ass(which is all scum needs to do!), and I see little to no scum hunting(which means you're not helping town look for scum). I consider that question open for anyone voting you, btw. Basically, if you're not scummy(I think you are), then you're at least Anti-town.
Zengar, those words are meaningless, especially because YOU STILL HAVEN'T VOTED ANYONE YET(RVS not included). You compiled a suspicions lists, and yet, I see no actual suspicions; all I see is "MAYBE, MAYBE NOT" and "NOTHING". Then there's no vote, which just confirms that you have no suspicions. You're pretty much at L-1 now. (Role)Claim.
My bad. >_> I typed those posts relatively quickly, so I missed some stuff.
Edible: Missed his post. It's just him repeating his view, and then asking me if I am scum because I was telling him to actually do something. To answer the question: No.
Pesco: One of the reasons I unvoted UK was because during the re-read, I realized that it wouldn't prove anything.
Kiro: Noted.
Kilga pointing out typo: Nyoro~n
So I'm keeping my vote on Heniwac(Hen+Seniwac), but I'm fine with and willing to vote for Zengar. No more newbie sympathy for him.
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I'm legitimately surprised - in a good way - that I'm only catching up on less than a page every time I wake up. Thank you~
---
Kilga's post looks like blah, blah, stuff happened, okay nothing that hasn't been covered already. Which usually reads as totally disingenious but that's kind of what's happened up to this point.
Also, if the same thing is called out in multiple games, wouldn't that suggest that said thing should stop being done?
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After some more thinking, I do realize that it may be a newbish stance (I kno rite?)... however my paranoid mind tells me that this is just to lift up some dust.
What does that last part mean, and does it have anything to do with being scum?
The bit about paranoia is not as endearing as you may think it is, and shying away won't get anything done for Town.
Fixing myself~
This is a bad, bad game for innuendo v.v
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The KGH wagon is bad and the people on it are worse off for it IMO. *waves at Kitten4u and SP*
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Pesco is making some amount of sense, which is a highly disturbing scumtell bothering me somewhat.
How likely is Suwako to be scum, Pesco?
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umu: If you believe the wagon on me will not lead to a scumlynch, then why don't you disagree with it?
You believe that lynching me would be good for town? If so, in what way.
You are validating the suspicion against you with deliberately anti-Town behavior and making yourself an ideal policy lynch.
However, policy lynches - which almost by definition will flip Town more often than not - are a last resort IMO.
I'm going to assume you're suspicious of me, since I appear to be the center of your attention?
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I see little to no scum hunting [from Heniwac]
Oh?
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How is Zengar "pretty much at L-1?" He's L-3 as of the moment and if anyone's "pretty much at L-1", it's me. Secondly, why did your vote remain on me when claiming the former?
I don't believe your accusation of "DEFENDING YOURSELF IS SCUMMY" is valid here because during the majority of the time I was on, the only topic was the bandwagon on me. Couldn't really scumhunt when I'm trying to prevent a mis-lynch.
So are there any other reasons why I seem scummy, Sodium?
Oh, and your point on Edible isn't valid because he was joking with you because you said he was suspicious from a few early-Day 1 posts. Can't take them all too seriously.
##UNVOTE
The gods demand a left bracket, a b, and a right bracket before your pounds!
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umu: Okay then. I'm an ideal policy lynch, but you claim that policy lynching usually isn't beneficial towards town. Yet you still keep your vote on me.
Explain this reasoning.
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Youmu's vote is on Zengar, not you.
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EDIT: hurrrrrrrrrrrrr
disregard the last statement completely
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umu: Okay then. I'm an ideal policy lynch, but you claim that policy lynching usually isn't beneficial towards town. Yet you still keep your vote on me.
Explain this reasoning.
...my vote's not on you. It's on Zengar.
The italicized votes on the vote counts are the ones that have been removed. Mods on this site like to include those so as to make vote counts as unreadable as possible.
Hey, don't blame me. It was the players of the last game I modded who asked for me to go through and make a brand new votecount with every unvote and vote on it after day one ended. And this was back when day ones usually have 10-12 pages of WoTs
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Yes, I was cut, I just felt like making that political statement.
Does that resolve your suspicion of me?
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Also, if the same thing is called out in multiple games, wouldn't that suggest that said thing should stop being done?
Maybe in Serp's case, but Seniwac is not 天使, so the lack of pattern recognition has to be shoved onto the train a bit more for that one.
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I was referring to Serpentarius anyway.
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Oh and Kilga, I wasn't banned for repetitive trolling of the game. It was only one instance and that was me trolling Ramus.
totally offtopic but WHATEVS
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I'd say null read on Suwako. This is pretty much the same as we've seen from the last game, nothing solid to pin on him. Of course, knowing who it is would make it a little easier to figure out how they think.
Cut: Okay, from the perspective of one that's been on the receiving end of similar, I'd like to say Seniwac is town. Mindhax, take it or leave it.
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I'd say null read on Suwako. This is pretty much the same as we've seen from the last game, nothing solid to pin on him. Of course, knowing who it is would make it a little easier to figure out how they think.
Cut: Okay, from the perspective of one that's been on the receiving end of similar, I'd like to say Seniwac is town. Mindhax, take it or leave it.
And this is what you think about the sudden u-turn from a viewpoint?
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Which part of my post is your question directed at?
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Anti-town, yes. Scummy, not really...
Although actually that makes me change my mind. ##Unvote, ##Vote: Khorneish Game Hen. That's a silly excuse, RVS ends on it's own, there's no need to rush it by giving up tactical ground to scum. Can't believe that was a conscious townie decision, ergo you're lying, ergo die.
I'm not quite understanding this squiggle of thought. Why does that move mean I am lying?
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Which part of my post is your question directed at?
The null read.
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He hasn't answered.
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Also, if the same thing is called out in multiple games, wouldn't that suggest that said thing should stop being done?
That depends on whether those calling out said thing are right to do so, of course.
Then there's no vote, which just confirms that you have no suspicions. You're pretty much at L-1 now. (Role)Claim.
Doesn't it seem a bit soon to call for that? We've still got half the day to go, and from here it looks like Zengar's just got a bunch of prods on him to produce more. I'd prefer that Zengar just weigh in with some real opinions and keep his role to himself.
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I'm going to have to leave for a bit to have a camera shoved down my throat, so this post is going to be quick. I'm going to be under anestheisa, so if I seem off later that's why.
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I'm not on the KGH wagon because I think we should policy lynch him, I'm on it because I think he's scum. Anyone that is on it because they want to policy lynch him should get off the wagon immediately. Lynches should be reserved for people you think are scum, not for people you think are playing badly.
I still want KGH to answer the question I asked here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1918.msg74517#msg74517). What is the other mistake that the scum made?
I'll outline my case on him once he answers that question.
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KGH: Preventing your own mislynch sometimes involves finding a case worse than yours. The problem is not that there isn't one, but that you don't seem to be trying to pursue one. By allowing the attention to be focused squarely on you, you're not doing anyone any favors, least of all yourself.
Pesco: Chiming in with the mindhax looks like vintage you. Problem is I never understand why you mention it when you don't bother to provide evidence for it. Stop throwing in unneeded WIFOMs! I don't see why you're sticking your neck out to declare that, it just makes things harder on the rest of Town (also vintage you).
Serp: I'll just clarify that my vote on Zengar is not a prod, but an intent to lynch. His choice to still not vote even after acknowledging other people's suggestions telling him to makes him unhelpful and potentially Scum. This is a Day 1 case and he is a new player so there is a reasonable chance for him to convince me to remove my vote, but he has to make the effort to do so first and I'm not going to let him pass on strictly a vote alone.
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I'm going to have to leave for a bit to have a camera shoved down my throat, so this post is going to be quick. I'm going to be under anestheisa, so if I seem off later that's why.
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I'm not on the KGH wagon because I think we should policy lynch him, I'm on it because I think he's scum. Anyone that is on it because they want to policy lynch him should get off the wagon immediately. Lynches should be reserved for people you think are scum, not for people you think are playing badly.
I still want KGH to answer the question I asked here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1918.msg74517#msg74517). What is the other mistake that the scum made?
I'll outline my case on him once he answers that question.
Oh right, that. It's confusing, but I will try my best to explain.
I believe my admitting of the roleclaim was a mistake on my part. UK says that this was taking a bullet for a scum mistake. I respond with "What's there to say that Scum won't make another mistake."
What I mean by this is that there is a chance of scum making mistake. Another, in this context, is referring to the entire course of the game. I meant to argue that just because my mistake could've took a bullet for scum, it does not rule out that scum will make a mistake later.
Oh, and nice loaded question by the way.
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It's an opinion and you guys get it for free. What's so WIFOM about it when I've taken a side?
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Pesco: Most possibly a joke about confusion. Kiro's point, that is.
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Seniwac makes a bunch of newbie mistakes and people train all over him. This sounds a lot like last game. (History lesson: Seniwac has never played a significant Mafia game here. He was Lynched for repeatedly trolling the night time minigames.)
The thing is, the way he talks implies more than average newbie knowledge, and using expertise WIFOM is always a bad thing to do.
Kilga: You're openly bandwagoning me mostly for the people that are also voting me? That sounds opportunistic. However, I want to see what are the reactions to this post.Kilga: You're openly bandwagoning me mostly for the people that are also voting me? That sounds opportunistic. However, I want to see what are the reactions to this post.
Could you elaborate on HOW precisely he's doing this?
Skip to the post-game talk. Stop being lazy.
Then link me. Oh yeah, why did I want this again?
And yes, Zengar is winning the waffle award of 2009...
Anybody got a dayvig?
Kiro reiterates what Pesco said. Not sure I like that
I'm legitimately surprised - in a good way - that I'm only catching up on less than a page every time I wake up. Thank you~
Page and a half for me. But I had to write a soap opera.
The KGH wagon is bad and the people on it are worse off for it IMO. *waves at Kitten4u and SP*
This will be remembered should he flip scum. You actually seem rather neutral on it in earlier posts. In the way that it tastes like waffles.
The italicized votes on the vote counts are the ones that have been removed. Mods on this site like to include those so as to make vote counts as unreadable as possible.
Yet you all complain when I don't...
Umu...discussing Suwako...I kinda didn't mention it earlier like I should have but his rampant agreement with me does not put me at ease. I hope to read a somewhat original post from him soon..
I believe my admitting of the roleclaim was a mistake on my part. UK says that this was taking a bullet for a scum mistake. I respond with "What's there to say that Scum won't make another mistake."
Ah, I misunderstood. In which case your behavior HEAVILY distracts from it. Odds are you'll be lynched for your RVS game and your subsequent missteps. Odds are that's because you're scum. In this case, scum made a series of blunders. Because you are that scum.
I...think I'm caught up. Kiro worries me slightly, Pesco is being somewhat useful, K4U is doing ok, Seniwac is still scummy, Zengar waffles are the breakfast of choice, umu waffles are becoming apparent, Suwako needs to post moar, so does Chen, and anyone else that didn't post over the last 12 hours. Excepting me of course :P.
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Pesco: Most possibly a joke about confusion. Kiro's point, that is.
Kiro doesn't joke.
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Umu...discussing Suwako...I kinda didn't mention it earlier like I should have but his rampant agreement with me does not put me at ease. I hope to read a somewhat original post from him soon..
Is that Player Umu or moe-moe sound effect?
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Umu...discussing Suwako...I kinda didn't mention it earlier like I should have but his rampant agreement with me does not put me at ease. I hope to read a somewhat original post from him soon..
Is that Player Umu or moe-moe sound effect?
moe moe. Sorry about that.
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UK: And how is umu being waffly here? He's stated his point on my case (that it was anti-town, but not scummy) and why he did not vote. There's also a legitimate reason why his vote's on Zengar (pressure to establish a vote/viewpoint.)
Also I'd like to know what your definiton of a newbie is.
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UK: And how is umu being waffly here? He's stated his point on my case (that it was anti-town, but not scummy) and why he did not vote. There's also a legitimate reason why his vote's on Zengar (pressure to establish a vote/viewpoint.)
He earlier stated that he didn't agree with the wagon, but was content to let it happen. He's basically implicitly agreeing with a wagon he things will be on a townie, while not being on the wagon itself.
Also I'd like to know what your definiton of a newbie is.
See the US Supreme Court's definition of obscene material I think it was?
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what how is obscene material related to newbies
Also: Good point there on umu. I'd like to know why umu considers the wagon "bad" (umu 166) but doesn't take a stance to stop the wagon itself. Of course, it could be an elaborate FOS.
but what do i know
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Waffles are delicious, but I ran out. Sorry~
##Vote Serpentarius
I find it weird that after everything that has been pointed out between your 141 and 182, your position hasn't changed not even a little bit, and on top of it, you haven't commented about it.
BTW,
After some more thinking, I do realize that it may be a newbish stance (I kno rite?)... however my paranoid mind tells me that this is just to lift up some dust.
What does that last part mean, and does it have anything to do with being scum?
It's not about scum, actually. My idea was that moving things a little bit would be beneficial for him.
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That depends on whether those calling out said thing are right to do so, of course.
*insert a loop of the previous conversation here*
@Kitten4u: Tonsillectomy?
Kiro 184 seems off. KGH is not directing attention at himself without using it to implicate someone else.
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This [pronouncement that Heniwac is Town] will be remembered should he flip scum. You actually seem rather neutral on it in earlier posts. In the way that it tastes like waffles.
No, I've been fairly consistent in believing Heniwac is Town. At least as far as I can recall the last 24 hours, my opinion on Heniwac's alignment has not changed.
The summary at the bottom is basically "I'm open to hate anyone at the drop of a hat except maybe K4U and Pesco", which is a waffle in itself.
Eggo should sue us by the end of this game for using and abusing that term so often.
I'll give them a call.
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He earlier stated that he didn't agree with the wagon, but was content to let it happen. He's basically implicitly agreeing with a wagon he things will be on a townie, while not being on the wagon itself.
Also: Good point there on umu. I'd like to know why umu considers the wagon "bad" (umu 166) but doesn't take a stance to stop the wagon itself. Of course, it could be an elaborate FOS.
For one, I don't FoS except in extreme circumstances.
For two, the wagon is bad because so far nobody has been able to show convincingly why you are *scum* and not *an unhelpful Townie*, yet you've been put at L-1... for pressure, apparently. Maybe they want a claim?
By opening your mouth and saying anti-Town things you invited a second look, which you got from UK and SJMoriya. Since then I believe you have demonstrated that you are trying to scumhunt and otherwise be useful, which begs the question of why there is still a wagon on you other than for a policy lynch, especially with SodiumPeroxide wondering how he wound up on the tail end of the train. To that end, I'm quite interested in K4U's case (or anyone else's case in a pinch) on Heniwac.
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It's not about scum, actually. My idea was that moving things a little bit would be beneficial for him.
Thhhhhhheeeeennnnn how does that involve paranoia on your part?
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I just tried unlocking UFO Stage 6 Hard for stage practice for three hours straight(and ended up ragequitting). I'm a bit tired(understatement), but I'll just answer a question.
Heniwac: Derp. I meant that I could change my vote to Zengar at anytime, so he should consider me having a vote on him. Then I misread which one of you were at L-2 and L-3(Thought Zengar was at L-2, and you were at L-3 >_>), so I thought that he would be at L-1 if I were voting for him, instead of L-2.
So basically, I misread something the mod wrote. =V
Uh, might as well answer a few more. Less for me to answer later after all...
Defending yourself isn't scummy, but if it's the only thing you're doing, then there's a problem. Also, Protip, the best way of defending yourself is to show how you're town by scumhunting. I don't see you doing that. Asking questions does not mean scumhunting. It's only a part of scum hunting, the other part being actual analysis of answers and posts. Have you actually come to any conclusions from your questioning?
Edible said his second joke vote after there was legitimate things to discuss. Now, he just isn't contributing to discussion, and active lurking. So yeah, my reason for not liking him changed.
Oh, and lastly, Bold votes/unvotes. You forgot to on your last unvote.
Zengar voted. I'm tired. Next post which will be in a couple of hours.
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EBWOP:Uh, I mean I'll comment it on my next post which will be in a couple of hours.
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It's not about scum, actually. My idea was that moving things a little bit would be beneficial for him.
Thhhhhhheeeeennnnn how does that involve paranoia on your part?
Because I've been thinking all the possibilities. I've already thought him being an SK, a Survivor, Townie with Power roles, Scum with everything scum can have, EVERYTHING. And not only him, but several other people too. That's why I was so waffly at the beggining. I need to focus more on what I'm seeing, not what I'm thinking.
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What's "actual analysis of answers and posts?" Why isn't analyzing a post and asking questions not considered it?
And please be wary that this is the middle of Day 1 and you shouldn't expect one to come to definite conclusions about who is who.
Also I especially like how your vote is not entirely based around my scumminess from 152. I don't really believe personal annoyance is an acceptable reason for lynching.
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Perhaps I didn't word it right, but KGH is acting too reactionary.
What could I possibly be diverting attention from? This is the only topic in discussion, so I can't possibly divert the topic from itself to itself.
All of his comments and suspicions are in relation to his earlier action and it's all framed within his own alignment which only he knows. And he was not making an effort to try to leave it behind, instead keeping it more relevant than it should be. It's a goddamn vanilla roleclaim, there are so many angles you can go with that which have been discussed so why can't he just drop it? All of his posts are hypotheticals about himself and other people voting him, does us little good when we don't know what his alignment is. It's easy to talk about oneself that way, but I want to see him discuss something outside of his comfort zone and talk about topics that are unrelated to his vanilla roleclaim. He is starting to get away from that beginning #167, but still refers back to it occasionally.
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Zengar: Not too sure what Serp's position on how people should be analyzing stuff or going from RVS to real discussion affects his scumminess. Explain more please.
Can't address some of these cuts, rushing out to lunch now.
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We've still got half the day to go, and from here it looks like Zengar's just got a bunch of prods on him to produce more. I'd prefer that Zengar just weigh in with some real opinions and keep his role to himself.
That's not the only reason my vote is on him. His approach to Seniwac has been "I'm not sure exactly what to do here so I'm going to hang back and ride the fence for a while". A townie's approach to Seniwac would be "Is this scummy or not?" whereas a scum's approach would be "How do I handle this weird situation?". Zengar has exhibited the latter more than the former.
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what how is obscene material related to newbies
Half serious joke. There was a case where a judge deemed something not obscene material and stated that obscenity can't really be given a guideline, it's more an "I know it when I see it" thing.
No, I've been fairly consistent in believing Heniwac is Town. At least as far as I can recall the last 24 hours, my opinion on Heniwac's alignment has not changed.
But your stance itself is, while not precisely a waffle, more of a not doing anything to stop what you see as a townie lynch, but divorcing yourself just enough from it should he flip town. You also initially were like "The wagon is ok, I just don't think it'll end well" to "If you are on the heniwac wagon, you look bad"
Since then I believe you have demonstrated that you are trying to scumhunt and otherwise be useful,
I do not see this. What I see is a lot of rhetoric and attempts to confuse the issue regarding the case on him.
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But your stance itself is, while not precisely a waffle, more of a not doing anything to stop what you see as a townie lynch, but divorcing yourself just enough from it should he flip town.
Do you think I should have immediately called out the people who voted Heniwac saying NO I THINK THIS GUYS TOWN YOU UNVOTE NAO because I did not believe that Heniwac's play was scummy?
I expected that you would come to that conclusion on your own. Heniwac then proceeded to open his mouth and make himself sound bad, which did not change my opinion of his alignment but certainly validated his wagon.
Since then, all of the problems I can think of caused by his vote-garnering commentary have been answered, which led to my opposition to the wagon. So...You also initially were like "The wagon is ok, I just don't think it'll end well" to "If you are on the heniwac wagon, you look bad"
...this is correct.
As for your side of the issue...What I see is a lot of rhetoric and attempts to confuse the issue regarding the case on him.
I don't know what exactly the case is on him. Please help a poor, innocent spirit out.
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Do you think I should have immediately called out the people who voted Heniwac saying NO I THINK THIS GUYS TOWN YOU UNVOTE NAO because I did not believe that Heniwac's play was scummy?
I think if you disagreed you should have taken a less middle of the road stance and backed it up
I don't know what exactly the case is on him. Please help a poor, innocent spirit out.
Anti town behavior, lack of scum hunting, attempts to confuse the issue by attack such things as his experience rather than actually addressing what he did, and what he did itself, with ADMITTING he wanted to do something anti town to break out of the RVS phase...
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A few notes.
Edible: Back in 117, you've stated that UK makes you feel uneasy. Has this changed? Please give a reason why or why not.
UK: What's so wrong with Kiro? His stance is focused on Zengar more than my WOOHOOwagon as seen from 161 and even more so from 201.
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UK: What's so wrong with Kiro? His stance is focused on Zengar more than my WOOHOOwagon as seen from 161 and even more so from 201.
No original thought really. It's a lot of parroting from what I read. I think his latest post was a little less of that.
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Then why don't you tell me those non-orignal parrot thoughts? And why does his latest post less worrisome?
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Then why don't you tell me those non-orignal parrot thoughts? And why does his latest post less worrisome?
More original thought. I'll point out the specifics when I feel like doing that and not watching Nadesico.
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Zengar: Not too sure what Serp's position on how people should be analyzing stuff or going from RVS to real discussion affects his scumminess. Explain more please.
In a nutshell, Hen's cleaner now that he has explained his motives and such. Since Serp's voting on him, he should at least address how this can affect his point of view, but instead, he decides to lurk actively.
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UK: Alright then. Where do your suspicions on Kilga lie then?
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UK: Alright then. Where do your suspicions on Kilga lie then?
Kilga may or may not be town at this juncture. But, I lean slight town. I think he's wrong to write you off though.
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I'm not "writing him off". There's no guarantee I won't vote for him at some point down the line in this game.
I just saw something happen in this game that happened last game, and last game the person flipped town. This makes me less inclined to think Seniwac scum. Player meta is one thing, situational meta is another entirely.
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I'm not "writing him off". There's no guarantee I won't vote for him at some point down the line in this game.
I just saw something happen in this game that happened last game, and last game the person flipped town. This makes me less inclined to think Seniwac scum. Player meta is one thing, situational meta is another entirely.
Nyeh...I don't think it's safe to just write him off even at the moment. But whatev.
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Now this is odd. You found Kiro suspicious because of "no original thought." Let's look at Kilga's posts then.
155: Parrot post. Stating what has already been said. Point on Seniwac was done by Edible and WOOHOOs onto the Zengar train because he believes information may be gained. Nothing new, really.
157: Telling Zengar that the WOOHOO was not due to the people on it. Not too relevant.
162: Joke post. Not relevant at all.
173: Confusion about umu's post. Not too relevant.
202: Claims that his WOOHOO was also because Zengar exhibited scum-like qualities. This is a strange post as his two distinctions are not quite clear. When is the line crossed between those two? In the end, another accusation of scummy due to waffling.
So why is Kilga slightly town again?
Also it would be superb if Kilga answered my qualms.
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At this point I probably require a reread of both K's in question.
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Although I really don't like your dodging, it would be best that you do.
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Although I really don't like your dodging, it would be best that you do.
But is it dodging when I have to refresh my reads in a more isolated way? Oh yeah, probably not gonna happen for a couple hours.
Blame TSO. Nadesico is involved.
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Waffles are delicious, but I ran out. Sorry~
##Vote Serpentarius
I find it weird that after everything that has been pointed out between your 141 and 182, your position hasn't changed not even a little bit, and on top of it, you haven't commented about it.
I read 141 and 182, so what about it made it voteworthy because I'm not seeing any sense here still.
Heniwac: Derp. I meant that I could change my vote to Zengar at anytime, so he should consider me having a vote on him. Then I misread which one of you were at L-2 and L-3(Thought Zengar was at L-2, and you were at L-3 >_>), so I thought that he would be at L-1 if I were voting for him, instead of L-2.
You know, using gimmicks that I've used as scum is really scraping the bottom for plays. And it makes you look even worse than you already do.
Still waiting on Edible and Suwako to check in. Maybe a vote count more often would be nice (get an ad hoc co?)
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Waffles are delicious, but I ran out. Sorry~
##Vote Serpentarius
I find it weird that after everything that has been pointed out between your 141 and 182, your position hasn't changed not even a little bit, and on top of it, you haven't commented about it.
I read 141 and 182, so what about it made it voteworthy because I'm not seeing any sense here still.
It's not that you see nothing voteworthy.
It's that you see Nothing at all.
That's my base. With that time difference, he should at least say why he's still in the wagon.
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Also Serp couldn't have responded to things addressing after 182 because he was not on that time.
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Also Serp couldn't have responded to things addressing after 182 because he was not on that time.
I said in between, not after.
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pesco actually feels somewhat town this time around, what with unusual levels of decent analysis. Usually when he's scum it's pinging off the walls.
I've stated my opinions on KGH already, he's not the right lynch for today. Zengar seems to be spending much of his time trying to direct people's attention away from himself, which seems amusingly scummy enough for a D1 lynch. What is he at now? If it's not L-1, I'll throw a vote down. I'd like a claim, too.
Edible: Back in 117, you've stated that UK makes you feel uneasy. Has this changed? Please give a reason why or why not.
UK's playstyle at present reminds me somewhat of the last time she was scum around here. I have no basis other than slight meta for my suspicions, and it's not really worthy of a vote. To answer your question, though, yes - gut still tells me UK is scum. Usually my gut is right about these things, but as I had evidence to go with gut-detecting Alice in GWU and pesco in Yume Nikki, I do not have any to go with UK. I'm keeping an eye on her.
Edible said his second joke vote after there was legitimate things to discuss. Now, he just isn't contributing to discussion, and active lurking. So yeah, my reason for not liking him changed.
Nice misrep. Active lurking would imply I've been here to lurk actively. You're trying too hard, bro.
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He is at L-3. You may throw your vote in now.
What have you to say about your sparse postings?
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Seniwac: 202 was a restatement of the first point in 155. This isn't an "also" situation because I've maintained it from the beginning.
I have no clue what the rest of your question regarding my 202 means.
Accusing me of "restating things" is a gotcha because I hadn't posted in several pages so of course I was going to say things that had already been said.
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The "Mod is getting lazy with votecount names" Votecount
EX Na2O2 (L-7): Pesco
Suwako J. Moriya (L-7): Kiro
Kiro (L-7): Suwako J. Moriya
uµ(L-7): Khorneish Game Hen
Khorneish Game Hen(L-2): uµ, Serpentarius, Uncertain Kitten, Suwako J. Moriya, Kitten4u, Ex Na2O2
Hizengar Byakuren (L-3): Kilgamayan, Uµ, Kiro, Kilgamayan, Pesco
Pesco (L-7): EX Na2O2, Kilgamayan
Edible (L-7): Kitten4u
Kilgamayan (L-7):Hizengar Byakuren
UncertainKitten (L-6): UncertainKitten, Ex Na2O2, Khorneish Game Hen
Serpentarius (L-6): Suwako J. Moriya, Uµ, hizengar Byakuren
Khorneish Game Hen is at L-2
Hizengar Byakuren is at L-3
There was only one change in voting since my last post. Stop whining about the votecount while I'm sleeping.
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Seniwac: 202 was a restatement of the first point in 155. This isn't an "also" situation because I've maintained it from the beginning.
I have no clue what the rest of your question regarding my 202 means.
Accusing me of "restating things" is a gotcha because I hadn't posted in several pages so of course I was going to say things that had already been said.
Oh. I want to ask for your thought process when judging Zengar's thoughts on me. Why exactly do you believe he falls into the scummy approach.
Also: "is a gotcha?" Is this a typo?
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His approach to Seniwac has been "I'm not sure exactly what to do here so I'm going to hang back and ride the fence for a while". A townie's approach to Seniwac would be "Is this scummy or not?" whereas a scum's approach would be "How do I handle this weird situation?". Zengar has exhibited the latter more than the former.
And no, "is a gotcha" is not a typo. "Gotcha" is a noun in this case.
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UK's playstyle at present reminds me somewhat of the last time she was scum around here.
Oh really? What, the competent playstyle in RWS (was it RWS? Or was it the one before that?)
Ah well, let's get to Kilga/Kiro since I got megablocked (fuck you megavideo)
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Anti town behavior, lack of scum hunting, attempts to confuse the issue by attack such things as his experience rather than actually addressing what he did, and what he did itself, with ADMITTING he wanted to do something anti town to break out of the RVS phase...
@bolded: Anti-Town, sure. Scummy, no. This is the basis of my read in the first place.
Lack of scum hunting, I'm not sure on. I think he was doing pretty well with pressuring me, minus the part about it being unfounded.
The main point is the "attempts to confuse the issue" etc., which I'd like to see some documentation about because I don't remember that offhand. (Yes, I'm being lazy.)
I'm actually finding myself mostly agreeing with Edible as of this five minutes.
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Let's see, Kiro 148 reiterates the Seni-roleclaim, However, the rest of the post does seem to be original positioning, though there is a Serpy waffle. Maybe the parroting was reading cuts.
Let's continue.
Kiro 161, Zengar observation is not new, and I don't think the Edible one is either. The sodium one is newer from what I can tell.
184 is good.
I think overall I was reacting to skims rather than direct reading. Sorry! Kiro seems a lot more townie with a reread.
Going to do Kilga next.
@bolded: Anti-Town, sure. Scummy, no. This is the basis of my read in the first place.
In this case I don't think there is much worth in establishing the difference between anti-town and scumminess. They are pretty close to one and the same at this juncture.
The main point is the "attempts to confuse the issue" etc., which I'd like to see some documentation about because I don't remember that offhand.
I have to reanalyze him too? Goddammit.
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@bolded: Anti-Town, sure. Scummy, no. This is the basis of my read in the first place.
In this case I don't think there is much worth in establishing the difference between anti-town and scumminess. They are pretty close to one and the same at this juncture.
Which brings us back to :objection: number one: How was Heniwac's VT claim more likely to be done by scum than Town?
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Huh...lots of jokes from Kilga for the first three pages, only getting slightly serious near the end of page 3.
Holy CRAP talk about IIoA in 155 :S
To be fair though, he is right that Zengar misrepped him. The reality just isn't much better
Jokes and more IIoA for the rest of page 6...
Kilga 202 is alright...but it doesn't appear to be doing much besides elaborating on Zengar
Accusing me of "restating things" is a gotcha because I hadn't posted in several pages so of course I was going to say things that had already been said.
Without any new insight or really much scumhunting?
Honestly, I see the point of "wagoning on Zengar cause it's cool" to an extent. Your reasons are alright when elaborated, but what else do you think and why?
Leaning more scummy on Kilga with a concentrated reread. Will reread Seni to determine how I feel about that given my shifts. This is what I get for skimmery :S.
Which brings us back to :objection: number one: How was Heniwac's VT claim more likely to be done by scum than Town?
Already explained. It's more a scum mistake, but it's a forced end to RVS whereas a more natural one is more likely to create a good case. The idea is that is shields other scum from making the RVS ending mistake at the expense of a wagon on yourself you expect to be able to beat off. As it stands, he seems to be succeeding. But why not, I'll do a reread.
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KGH wins the joke count in the first two pages. Sorry Kilga
72 is the roleclaim in question. I also hate how offhanded it was, a very smug way to start shit. But that's just my personal opinion
86 admits that he's basically redirecting kills off himself, great explanation for why you aren't going to die, as has been stated before.
I was mostly ignoring it at this point though, cause it did seem like a newbie mistake as you said.
93 is the WIFOM post. Facepalm worthy...
112 is what pushed me from bad newbie town to somewhat experienced scum attempting to use bad newbie town. He even ADMITS it was anti town and scummy, and that it was to end RVS artificially.
118 digs the whole deeper with the experience WIFOM
Oh, and 119 OMGUS, yay!
Oh yeah, a lot of refocusing on the experience issue as opposed to his actual actions that garnered my vote on page 5. Random poke at you I see, but it doesn't feel like scumhunting, just random questioning.
136 is just...WHHHHHHY! I mean, I almost see your point about him being anti town not scummy here, but it hurts so badly to READ that.
140 at least acknowledges why we are voting him.
164 is a fair point...but I again see it more as information instead of actual scumhunting.
167 is actually rational...
185 clarifies...
...
##Unvote
I'm going to reread Zengar now and choose between him and Kilga at this point.
Thank you Umu for having me reanalyze KGH.
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All jokes on page 2. I guess that's kinda expected at this point.
Remember 62 in the future, btw, depending on Zengar's flip. Y'all know what I'm implying.
98 feels like eggos. As has already been stated.
123 is not good either, but I more gave a pat the newbie response at the time.
128 waffles.
156 says less than that one Kilga post I was disinclined to appreciate. That would be less than a very tiny bit. As in nothing.
Kilga 157 is only being mentioned because I'm trying to figure out what it indicates. It could either be distancing strengthening Kilga/Zengar connections or trashing them. Sorry about the lack of conclusiveness yet here, I just want to point it out.
195 feels like taking a stance only because he has to. I also will say with more confidence that serpy is not likely scum if Zengar is.
210 is fair support on Serp. I don't really think one good post in a sea of fail means much.
Ok...honestly, I think both Kilga and Zengar are probable scum. But I wanna see Zengar's flip first atm.
##Vote Zengar
L-2.
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The "Mod is getting lazy with votecount names" Votecount
EX Na2O2 (L-7): Pesco
Suwako J. Moriya (L-7): Kiro
Kiro (L-7): Suwako J. Moriya
u?(L-7): Khorneish Game Hen
Khorneish Game Hen(L-3): u?, Serpentarius, Uncertain Kitten, Suwako J. Moriya, Kitten4u, Ex Na2O2
Hizengar Byakuren (L-2): Kilgamayan, U?, Kiro, Kilgamayan, Pesco, Uncertain Kitten
Pesco (L-7): EX Na2O2, Kilgamayan
Edible (L-7): Kitten4u
Kilgamayan (L-7):Hizengar Byakuren
UncertainKitten (L-6): UncertainKitten, Ex Na2O2, Khorneish Game Hen
Serpentarius (L-6): Suwako J. Moriya, U?, hizengar Byakuren
Khorneish Game Hen is at L-3
Hizengar Byakuren is at L-2
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Edible: It was an assumption based on how you had time to pop in to say something is a nulltell and such, but didn't have time to say who you thought was scum. I also assumed that you would say something about not being able to post much. Oh, and you said that you could post more on weekdays beforehand.
Seniwac: Who do you think is most likely to be scum and why? Your questioning of people hasn't led anywhere; you're just questioning whatever catches your eye. You haven't really stated what you think of other players. Oh, and to answer your question, analyzing posts and then asking questions is good, but you aren't saying anything much about the players themselves.
You know, using gimmicks that I've used as scum is really scraping the bottom for plays. And it makes you look even worse than you already do.
What? I actually misread what the mod wrote.
Khorneish Game Hen is at L-2
Hizengar Byakuren is at L-3
I miixed them up by accident. Hell, I didn't even know you've done that before. Which game was it?
Zengar's vote on Serp is...meh. Sorta came from no where(went from waffling Seniwac to voting Serp). Don't really know how to explain it. It's decidedly better then the waffles he was making before, but a single average post isn't going to save him.
PS Seniwac. You haven't unvoted yet because you didn't bold your unvote.
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Sorry, I guess I'm a bit late to the show.
Had some issues come up, sorry for the delay.
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Sorry, I guess I'm a bit late to the show.
Had some issues come up, sorry for the delay.
Yay! The three kittens are here! (also, that would be an AWESOME name for a bar)
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Every player has now confirmed. Please enjoy the rest of your day.
Which is 28 hours long, right now.
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I find it weird that after everything that has been pointed out between your 141 and 182, your position hasn't changed not even a little bit, and on top of it, you haven't commented about it.
What was there to change my position? His 164 was just pointing out a weird word choice by umu, his 167 is just excuses and non-scumhunting stuff, and... there's really nothing of substance beyond that. This is something that was pointed out to me last game - that asking lots and lots of questions is not by itself a towntell. It can be a distracting tactic by scum to try and cast a lot of doubt around and get the attention away from themselves without actually committing to anything.
This is on top of his early conduct. My initial vote wasn't much more than a prod based on an unusual move, but the way he tried to justify it after the fact sealed it for me. I don't think he went through all this reasoning about bringing the town out of RVS and WIFOMing scum and such, so he's artificially justifying his move after the fact, and that can't be called "merely" anti-town. I was distracted by the attacks on my initial vote and the scumhunting philosophy discussion, so I didn't point this out explicitly, but Suwako's point was what reaffirmed my vote on KGH.
On that subject, I'd like all you people who are making a huge distinction between anti-town behavior and scummy behavior to explain just what qualifies as a genuine scumtell to you. Without any flips to analyze, the only ones I can think of off the top of my head is prioritizing your own survival above scumhunting.
Anyway, regarding Zengar, factoring in newbie meta makes me think his vote on me looks more townie than scum. Newbscum would probably jump on the other big wagon, or at the very least pull an OMGUS. This point is extremely subject to WIFOM, but it's worthy of consideration. I'm still strongly preferring a KGH lynch over a Zengar one. I also realize that I've been overlooking Chen's lurking so far. If Chen continues to establish himself as a lurker, count me as favoring a Chen lynch over a Zengar lynch, but below a KGH lynch.
Yay! The three kittens are here! (also, that would be an AWESOME name for a bar)
A strip club, maybe.
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Couldn't address this the last time:
I meant that I could change my vote to Zengar at anytime, so he should consider me having a vote on him.
Don't like this statement. Put your vote on him, or don't say anything. You have some decent content, like pressing KGH to come to a conclusion and stick with it rather than just pecking at every little thing he sees like a game hen. But a lot of offhand things you say are pinging my scumdar. Since you do seem to be trying to decide which one of KGH or Zengar is worse right now, I'd like a more definitive confirmation of who you're set to vote for on your next post or if anyone else comes up.
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Zengar, For your explanation in #210, you're just guessing there was enough in that span of 40 posts to get Serp to change his mind about KGH. I didn't see any improvement until KGH's #167, but it was still minor at that point so perhaps it wasn't enough yet. After the fact... maybe. But I'll see what Serp says.
Cut by Serp: Ah there it is. Well, your opinion about KGH over Zengar is ok. It's contrary to what Zengar thinks so I'd like to see Zengar's response.
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Please give me a while to respond. Too much jibberish going on in such little time.
Also, I get to have 2 games with kitten4u. Yay.
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Please give me a while to respond. Too much jibberish going on in such little time.
Also, I get to have 2 games with kitten4u. Yay.
MS as well? This is getting fun ^-^
That's nothing. Right now I'm in another game that's being moderated by this girl.
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Please give me a while to respond. Too much jibberish going on in such little time.
Also, I get to have 2 games with kitten4u. Yay.
MS as well? This is getting fun ^-^
That's nothing. Right now I'm in another game that's being moderated by this girl.
Who is she?
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I'd like to see Zengar's response.
I'm going to wait Chen's post so I can adress both things at the same time. Is that okay with you?
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'rampant agreement'? uh if you're calling agreeing on early day one stuff rampant, I'd hate to see what 'tepid' is. Only so many stances to take on stuff, sooooo.
Don't like Zengar talking about roles or listing opinions on everyone. Feeling him to be kinda newbtown at the moment though. More interested in people bouncing between Hen and Zengar. Both are acting dumb more than anything, on reflection. Would still go for a Hen lynch. But...
UU and UK have both switched back and forth. Don't like UK much for trying to choose between Kilga and Zengar and then picking Zengar, that's a weaksauce choice and he's obviously easier to prey upon. Don't like her bringing up meaningless points. Don't like her talking so much and still essentially going for 'yep lynch the people who can't play'.
##Unvote, ##Vote: Uncertainkitten
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Uh huh. Yes, I used the more useful argument. There's also the fact that we have less than a day left. Do you HONESTLY think anyone will buy into a kilga lynch that quickly? The prevailing attitude would imply that's not so to me. I have to accept Zengar over Kilga for the time being.
Don't like her talking so much and still essentially going for 'yep lynch the people who can't play'.
I don't like you not reading and realizing it's quite a bit more than that.
'rampant agreement'? uh if you're calling agreeing on early day one stuff rampant, I'd hate to see what 'tepid' is. Only so many stances to take on stuff, sooooo.
hmm?
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I'd like to see Zengar's response.
I'm going to wait Chen's post so I can adress both things at the same time. Is that okay with you?
You should go ahead and say it right now. I probably won't be back on until noon tomorrow.
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sleepy time. Try to avoid lynching me in my absence ^-^
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...less than a day? We have, what, twenty-seven hours to go? Surely that is plenty of time to not lynch bad people for being bad, what are you talking about :/
You don't actually have cases or arguments to actually read, which is compounding the issue. That is, posts of 'I read all their posts and omgz look at all these catchphrases I can apply to them' aren't really cases.
Going "I must choose between (bad person) and (good person who I claim to find suspicious)" looks pretty stupid.
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To answer Sodium: My main suspicion is on UK. Despite common belief, the vote never left :V
My main qualm is that her so-called analysis. She backs up her observations and claims with... nothing. Why exactly did you get off the Senitrain? Why was Kilga scummy? And lastly, why claim that Zengar was the more useful arguement when you had no arguement at all?
Vote still stands on UK. Opinions on S-Moriya and others coming tomorrow.
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You should go ahead and say it right now. I probably won't be back on until noon tomorrow.
FFFFFFF- Okay then.
Cut by Serp: Ah there it is. Well, your opinion about KGH over Zengar is ok. It's contrary to what Zengar thinks so I'd like to see Zengar's response.
Well, while I see your points, I maintain my vote on you. Why? Because of your position in Hen not scumhunting. You see, when you're pressed so early, the first ting that comes to mind is to remove some pressure off yourself. While scumhunting efficiently is an excellent way to do this, justifying your actions is also somewhat valid, if suspicious. Maybe I may be wrong of using newbie meta on him, but given that I'm not the only one to do so, then I'm willing to believe it.
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I also realize that I've been overlooking Chen's lurking so far.
No access counts as lurking?
Please give me a while to respond. Too much jibberish going on in such little time.
Also, I get to have 2 games with kitten4u. Yay.
MS as well? This is getting fun ^-^
That's nothing. Right now I'm in another game that's being moderated by this girl.
Who is she?
I believe Zukari was referring to being in a game modded by you.
Also, Chen is a human-eating monster. Remember that.
I'm glad I'm not the only person seeing SP as scum who's not quite sure what to do with this game. *reading Kiro's post*
##Unvote: Hizengar Byakuren
##Vote: Ex NaO2 (L-6)
UU and UK have both switched back and forth.
Um... no, I've only switched forth. From my random vote. Try again.
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I also realize that I've been overlooking Chen's lurking so far.
No access counts as lurking?
My dad got remarried.
But then his fiance died on the way to the wedding.
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Chen, may I suggest you find a replacement? Or do you wish to continue to give yourself something to keep you mind on?
UK, I'd like an explanation of why you slap the IIoA label on my 155 when it's six opinions right in a row, the last four of which are pretty clearly opinions (_____ suspicious for _______) even if people couldn't read between the lines on the first two.
Despite earlier leeway, Seniwac bothers me by doing little besides ask questions, and then by presenting a case against me and putting an onus on UK to say something about it instead of actually following up on it himself. I may have to rethink the Remix comparison. Seniwac: I want to see less ????????????? from you and more "I think _____ is scum because _________". Asking questions does not give us your opinions.
Zengar's Serp vote is founded on some very shaky ground - that Seniwac made himself look better over the course of the day. I would guess that Serp did not comment on Seniwac because he disagrees with the notion that Seniwac got better as the game went on (and quite possibly feels Seniwac got worse). I tend to do this myself.
Aha, and that is indeed how Serp feels.
Voting staying on Zengar. The scummy approach to the Seniwac situation is still the worst thing I've seen all game.
---
I've noticed an issue with my recent games that I'd like to resolve right now, for the sake of clarity. I have recently adopted a posting style where I don't actually write what I feel are obvious conclusions (if I don't think a conclusion I've reached is too obvious then I'll post it). I do this because I feel like people shouldn't be insulted by spoon-feeding them - you're all (theoretically) intelligent enough to see where I'm going with such points. Apparently this isn't working.
Do people want me to start spoon-feeding them my conclusions? I don't like doing it because I see it as pretty damn condescending but if there's really as much confusion about what I'm saying as there appears to be I'll do it.
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No, fuck YOU, AutoSmilies.
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Oh hey, Zengar's Serp vote evolved. Not sure why Zengar thinks Seniwac is scumhunting when all he's doing is asking questions. Very not sure how Zengar can feel this so strongly as to vote someone for thinking Seniwac isn't scumhunting.
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So it was a random vote. Ok, whatever, full steam ahead on UK.
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Zengar: I have no idea what you're saying in your #253.
You see, when you're pressed so early, the first ting that comes to mind is to remove some pressure off yourself. While scumhunting efficiently is an excellent way to do this, justifying your actions is also somewhat valid, if suspicious. Maybe I may be wrong of using newbie meta on him, but given that I'm not the only one to do so, then I'm willing to believe it.
When you say "you," are you referring to Serp specifically or a figurative "you"? A person should do both scumhunting and justifying their actions when questioned about them. There is nothing extraordinarily suspicious about the latter; everyone has to justify their actions or reasoning in Mafia. And how should you using newbie meta (on KGH I assume?) affect what Serp thinks? In essence, I have no idea how this paragraph has justified your vote.
So to make your response to my concerns a little easier: what is wrong with Serp not going off of KGH in the span of #140~#180 when you even see/understand his reasoning?
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To Suwako regarding UK: Yea, she's pretty talkative, but I do think her points are reasonable. I always cringe when people want to rattle off scumpair suspicions so early, but it's a null tell. She does have an early enough suspicion of Zengar in #188 (but then again, several people do anyways) as well. I don't think her choosing Zengar over Kilga just on ease of lynchability (even if she admits it herself) is enough to be worth voting her on because the case and her points on Zengar are fair.
KGH: Not sure I'm following why your questions in #252 haven't been addressed already by UK's previous replies. I'm sure she'll reply to you more properly in the morning though.
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Do people want me to start spoon-feeding them?
I have a confession to make. I've always had a fetish of being spoonfed by Kilga a Forever 21 Yama. Oh baby, dallop that righteous justice onto your spoony instrument and shove it in my face!
...
...
...
In all seriousness, do it Kilga. I don't interpret innuendos very well. Condescend me. The Goddess of Makai probably deserves it. And see above regarding Seniwac. He might have trouble interpreting your replies correctly with the way he's just questioning, but not analyzing as much. And this section now makes up a solid 1/3 of this post. You should be honored Kilga. Also, I don't have a problem with your posts so far.
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Suwako Mafiya still hasn't answered my 3 Ys from my big post. Looking hot for scummy now.
Being spoonfed explanations should be a given. If not, why do you guys always say I'm being obscure? Blerrie idiots are afraid to think for themselves.
I feel Orange should have notified us of being away for an event beforehand. Since no replacing was asked for, I want to see more than delay posts.
With the amount if time left, we should be consolidating our lynches. Making bigger posts when I get home.
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The "Mod should probably put more effort on flavor" Votecount
EX Na2O2 (L-6): Pesco, Uµ
Suwako J. Moriya (L-7): Kiro
Kiro (L-7): Suwako J. Moriya
uµ(L-7): Khorneish Game Hen
Khorneish Game Hen(L-4): uµ, Serpentarius, Uncertain Kitten, Suwako J. Moriya, Kitten4u, Ex Na2O2
Hizengar Byakuren (L-3): Kilgamayan, Uµ, Kiro, Kilgamayan, Pesco, Uncertain Kitten
Pesco (L-7): EX Na2O2, Kilgamayan
Edible (L-7): Kitten4u
Kilgamayan (L-7):Hizengar Byakuren
UncertainKitten (L-5): UncertainKitten, Ex Na2O2, Khorneish Game Hen, Suwako J. Moriya
Serpentarius (L-6): Suwako J. Moriya, Uµ, hizengar Byakuren
God this must be confusing to look at... Here.
EX Na2O2 (L-6): Uµ
Khorneish Game Hen(L-4): Serpentarius, Kitten4u, Ex Na2O2
Hizengar Byakuren (L-3): Kiro, Kilgamayan, Pesco, Uncertain Kitten
UncertainKitten (L-5): Khorneish Game Hen, Suwako J. Moriya
Serpentarius (L-6): Hizengar Byakuren
Not voting: Chen Yakumo, Edible?
There are just a little over 22 hours left in the day
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@Kitten4u: Tonsillectomy?
No, I have ulcers and since nothing I was doing seemed to be helping they decided to take another look at my stomach. Sadly, I ended up being KOed longer than expected (or rather I woke up on time, but was so tired after that I literally went to bed at 2 PM). On the bright side I now have nifty, full color pictures of the inside of my stomach.
Also, I get to have 2 games with kitten4u. Yay.
Wait, who are you? o:
Real post will come in a bit because I haven't eaten in like a day and a half and I'm starving now.
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Okay, so here's why I think KGH is scum.
1.) I'll start with the big one. Post 126 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1918.msg74465#msg74465), more specifically this:
And what is there to say that scum won't make another mistake?
"[...]that scum won't make another mistake. That implies that scum has already made a mistake, and I only saw one thing that would qualifty as a mistake in the early parts of the game, and that's post 72 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1918.msg73872#msg73872) AKA his claim (and according to him that is indeed what he was refering to). In other words, I think he slipped and basically called himself scum. The fact that he called my question loaded when I was using his words isn't making me feel any better about him either.
tl;dr I think he slipped and basically claimed scum
2.) I doubt I need to say too much about the beginning of the game, but there's one thing that's seriously bugging me. He intentionally ended RVS with his claim, but between the time he claimed and the time he told us the purpose of the claim he acted like a newbie and asked questions that a newbie would ask (it's important to note that these were just questions on theory and did nothing to help with scum hunting). It sounds like he was trying to make himself seem more newbieish than he was because hiding behind "I didn't know, I'm a newbie" is really, really easy. He isn't even striking me as newbieish either.
tl;dr he lied.
3.) In the later parts of the game he actually decides to start pretending to scum hunt! Posts like this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1918.msg74487#msg74487) are not helpful. He started asking some decent questions (particularly when it came to UK), but he never really said anything about them. That and a large amount of his questions seem like he's asking questions to make it look like he's trying to scum hunt instead of asking good questions that would let him analyze people. I even feel like his case on UK (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1918.msg75343#msg75343) is pretty weak, and it does not explain why he was suspicous of her earlier in the game (assuming that unbolded unvote wasn't actually meant to be an unvote).
tl;dr it looks like he's trying to make himself look town without doing any real scum hunting.
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I'd like to see some actual analysis from you KGH. Outlining your entire case (including why you were suspicious of her at the beginning) would be a great place to start.
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Zak: I'm totally voting for uncertainkitten.
So you were. Fixed.
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Going "I must choose between (bad person) and (good person who I claim to find suspicious)" looks pretty stupid.
Wait what? No, seriously, you think one of Kilga and Zengar is good?
Bullshit
...less than a day? We have, what, twenty-seven hours to go? Surely that is plenty of time to not lynch bad people for being bad, what are you talking about :/
Then I thought a longer time had passed since Chen confirmed. Sorry. That's still pretty damn close to less than a day
You don't actually have cases or arguments to actually read, which is compounding the issue. That is, posts of 'I read all their posts and omgz look at all these catchphrases I can apply to them' aren't really cases.
Except, yanno, you must have, like, not read the posts because they PRETTY CLEARLY show how some people are more likely to be scum.
Yanno, I'm just going to assume this was a joke post. Anyone with an intelligence score above three who read my posts couldn't possibly believe themselves posting this.
My main qualm is that her so-called analysis. She backs up her observations and claims with... nothing. Why exactly did you get off the Senitrain? Why was Kilga scummy? And lastly, why claim that Zengar was the more useful arguement when you had no arguement at all?
huh? Um, Kilga was scummy for IIoA. I fucking said that. Senitrain, upon a reread of seniwac SHOWS he becomes a lot more useful in the later portions of the day and less anti town. He made a mistake initially. And Zengar is just...bad. I'm more sure of Zengar than Kilga, but it was a hard choice since Kilga really should know better.
I believe Zukari was referring to being in a game modded by you.
He's in SSK's subgame. Not mine ^-^
UK, I'd like an explanation of why you slap the IIoA label on my 155 when it's six opinions right in a row, the last four of which are pretty clearly opinions (_____ suspicious for _______) even if people couldn't read between the lines on the first two.
I'll reread it, but I know what I read wasn't a solid opinion or even really much analysis.
I have a confession to make. I've always had a fetish of being spoonfed by Kilga a Forever 21 Yama. Oh baby, dallop that righteous justice onto your spoony instrument and shove it in my face!
You spoony bard!
Kitten 264: I like that catch on the slip ^-^
2 was a point I was stuck on myself...
Point 3 is rather good as well especially given the fact I've never seen an actual case from him concerning me...hmm...
Damn I'm torn. That's quite a good case on seni but I got good vibes from him lately (with the exception of his last post about having a case on me about non explanation...). I also feel Kilga or Zengar would be a better play...
I guess I'll pull a umu and say that people on the KGH wagon probably aren't that bad looking, but I lean more stupid town at the moment. But, I would like him to actually follow up his questioning with results within, say, his next three posts. Another one of those posts should be a fully explained case on me.
Suwako, from him I expect an actual case not riddles with easily deflated points that even a child could defeat because they flat out aren't true.
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Suwako still pisses me off for not answering my questions. Reading his posts in isolation, I don't see any scumhunting at all. #247 might be telling of a connection to Zengar.
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Do people want me to start spoon-feeding them my conclusions? I don't like doing it because I see it as pretty damn condescending but if there's really as much confusion about what I'm saying as there appears to be I'll do it.
Sounding condescending never stopped me from saying anything, and people tell me so more or less all the time.
'Doesn't seem to be stopping some others ITT either.
Condescend me. The Goddess of Makai probably deserves it.
Mima fully approves of this statement.
On the bright side I now have nifty, full color pictures of the inside of my stomach.
That almost sounds interesting enough to be worth the ordeal. Except... well, not.
(I'm told I'll get ulcers later. Thanks for the advance warning of what I may wind up going through...)
I feel Orange should have notified us of being away for an event beforehand. Since no replacing was asked for, I want to see more than delay posts.
By not confirming I think it can be inferred that Chen didn't have the ability to notify anyone.
In addition, I don't understand why people are telling Chen to replace since that will only stall input from him further.
I guess I'll pull a umu
Once again, moe or me?
Unfortunately, each time I see the abbreviation K4U I have traumatic flashbacks to this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPWwM_Mh8o8).
I have no words to describe this feeling, but most of them would be stronger than "unpleasant".
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---Kitten4u point 1: Reading this quote in context...As for data gathered, the idea is, if you WERE a townie doing something scummy to get us out of RVS, you just took a bullet for scum fucking up by accident.
And what is there to say that scum won't make another mistake?
I think I can see how this would not be a slip - add "later, if not in the RVS" to the end. In other words, what Heniwac said in 185.
---Kitten4u point 2: While he asked why claiming early is bad, Heniwac never claimed to be a newb until 118: And how did this thrash the newbie excuse? Would an experienced player admit that consciously?
(The answer, btw, is yes)
So there may be something here.
---Kitten4u point 3: I disagree on the first linked post for reasons mentioned already. The second post you linked is weak, but I don't factor it highly in my read tbh. Judgment call.
I'm disagree with your case, but I think it's reasoned enough that it reflects well on you.
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Also, I see that Sodium's (in the 90s IIRC) vote on UK was for the same reasons as Serp's nonvoting suspicion that I hated earlier. Mmm, connections.
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I can look over SJMoriya while I'm here.
I really don't buy his flip on KGH in 114. The logic breaks down in "I can't believe that was a conscious Townie decision" when he just got done saying it was. I think I can see a possible logic bridge there, but I'll leave SJMoriya to explain that one for me.
After that, I don't see him until this page. I don't know what he's referencing with "rampant agreement", but if it's an accusation against SJM, I would have to disagree.
Naming me as someone who has flipped back and forth is pretty insulting. Similarly, isn't that what he did himself in that post?
And... that's all he's said unless I missed something.
I disapprove, but it's not enough to take me off of ScumiumPeroxide as of nao.
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Once again, moe or me?
Unfortunately, each time I see the abbreviation K4U I have traumatic flashbacks to this.
You. And Gpop will sue kill.
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@Umu
That almost sounds interesting enough to be worth the ordeal. Except... well, not.
(I'm told I'll get ulcers later. Thanks for the advance warning of what I may wind up going through...)
It's not, having ulcers totally sucks. In my case, I want to throw up every time I eat something, but I've been told they do different things to different people. The pictures just make my optimism happy.
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Even in context I see that as a slip. He specifically says that scum might make another mistake, which unless there's a language thing I'm missing means that scum had already made one mistake before he posted that. So if we change the quote to this:
And what is there to say that scum won't make another mistake later, if not in the RVS?
I still have the same problem. It still implies that scum has already made a mistake before he posted that and the only thing that looked like a mistake to me was his claim. Hence my belief that it was a slip.
While he asked why claiming early is bad, Heniwac never claimed to be a newb until 118:
Fair enough. I suppose I should have said he "was acting like a newbie" instead of "claimed to be a newbie." I have the same issue with both things becuase using a newbie defense is probably one of the easiest if not the easiest way to get out of doing scummy things.
And I'll say fair enough on #3. I still don't like it though.
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Anyway, reading recent responses is giving me the feeling that I have a bad case of tunnel vision. I think it's time for a re-read.
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@Kitten4u:
Even in context I see that as a slip. He specifically says that scum might make another mistake, which unless there's a language thing I'm missing means that scum had already made one mistake before he posted that. So if we change the quote to this:
And what is there to say that scum won't make another mistake later, if not in the RVS?
I still have the same problem. It still implies that scum has already made a mistake before he posted that and the only thing that looked like a mistake to me was his claim. Hence my belief that it was a slip.
...okay, I see what you're saying here.
I'm not sure if that's a poor word choice or not, but while I wouldn't overlook it I wouldn't drop a hammer for it.
I reread. The short version of my notes is:
*SP can possibly be Town, but is making a lot of wrong moves back-to-back-to-back if he is. I'm not buying it.
*I disagree with Serpentarius more or less entirely - in particular with his characterization of Chen as a "lurker" - but his positions are plausible enough to warrant not being voted IMO. He's curiously linked to SP too. In addition, Surely Serpentarius was not the first person to see KGH's roleclaim? Why didn't Serpentarius and SodiumPeroxide attack Pesco and Kitten4u?
And indeed, Kilga actually did reference KGH, albeit not the slip directly. And then addressed it after KGH did... as did Pesco and UK. Edible doesn't really have an excuse here.
*I have a shaky Town read on Pesco that I don't want to put stock in ATM.
*I have a slight scum read on Kiro on intuition.
*I have a notable scum read on Edible based on his last post and post 147, which both seem like weak and halfhearted participation.
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I'd also like Hizengar to clarify just what he's voting me for. If you think my case is bad, you should be pushing a better one, and unless you think my reasoning is scummy, that case should be on someone else.
No access counts as lurking?
Eh, call me cynical, but it seems like every game we get someone who says "I haven't shown up because of [valid excuse], just give me another few hours to catch up." The hours pass, there's no post. They get called on it again, they make an excuse the next day, the post still doesn't come. I consider them functionally equivalent because most of the time, they are. The fact that Chen's family's issue isn't going to just go away compounds the issue. I can see why he's being encouraged to ask for a replacement.
Kilga: If you're a yama, make every judgement you can! In fact, to not do so seems... lazy... hmm...
Kilga: I see where you're coming from, and everyone follows that philosophy to some degree or another. It's just a matter of knowing where the line is between "this is self-evident" and "I should explain my thought process." It's more pro-town to err on the side of the latter.
KGH's supposed Freudian slip is an interesting point. To be fair, I can see how it would make sense from a townie - he could be saying that a mistake was made, and scum might make another mistake on top of that townie one. I wouldn't jump on it unless I already had suspicion of KGH for more solid reasons, but since I do, it's worthy of consideration.
Kitten is extremely tsundere. The points she has among her vitriol aren't bad, though.
I'll do a full reread for everyone tonight.
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Which Kitten you dafgjmsjzxfgjxykit!
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Kitten is extremely tsundere. The points she has among her vitriol aren't bad, though.
Which Kitten you dafgjmsjzxfgjxykit!
I hope me because I don't see any vitriol from the other Kitten
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Alright, Listotime.
Pesco/Kiro: Strikes me as town from gut feelings. Decent analysis from Pesco. Kiro 201 is odd. I can see the intent of drawing away from the roleclaim and the prod for me to pursue real scumhunting. However, the fact that scumhunting can arise from that topic (as with umu's case on Sodium) is real odd. Kiro's prods on Natrium seem odd because it seems like he wants to get a quick lynch of either.
Kilgamayan: Leaning scummy as of the moment. As of now, alot of posts did not bring up many new ideas. 256 is nothing more than a prod on me and a comment on Zengar's post. No attemtps to scumhunt other than WOOHOOing onto the Zengarexpress. Point about posting style seems like an excuse to not give definite conclusions.
umu: Leaning neutral. as of the moment. Sudden change to Natriumdoubleo without giving much of a reason makes me feel queasy. Again, would really like an explanation to why Natriumdoubleo is suspicious. Focus on S-Moriya seems WOOHOO-like. More information may change this though. Will also be referred to as dongsig from now on.
S-Moriya: Scummy. No idea why his most recent post didn't address our concerns. Again, providing the answers to the questions may or not affect my opinion.
Kitten4u: Neutral. Seems townie at first with all the pressure on me but I am uneasy with the fact that I am all she's blathered about. Her points on me have been addressed in the past, which is another uneasiness morsel.
Natriumdoubleos: Honestly, no idea. He seems to have townie intentions with the pressure on me yet how he believes annoyance is a factor on who to lynch is odd. Pushing the roleclaim when Zengar isn't even near that stage also strikes me as odd. Another factor is how he hasn't addressed the defense of "Anti-town, but not scummy" on me. I would want the other's points on him before I make a conclusion.
Serpentarius: ahhhg no idea at all... 241 raises the question of why do you believe the justification was artificial. The reference to S-Moriya is curious though. Also tunnel vision is a pretty cool thing too
Edible: Slightly scummy. What really strikes me as unusual is that he asked about the votecount as a reason for him to throw him a vote. And doesn't do it after his parameters for WOOHOOing is set. Also the fact that he hasn't really pursued anything... The Zengar roleclaim push is unjustified and oddly related to Natrium.
Zengar: First stuck me as newbtown not knowing how to deal with a bandwagon. Vote on serp doesn't seem justified at all. Reasoning behind the vote is really WIFOMy. It's tempting to put more pressure on him but I'd like to see him back up the Serp vote before that.
UK: Vote was mainly a reactionary vote. Was really surprised at how quickly you unvoted me after a reread of my posts and votes Kilga after a prompt question. Feels like wishy-washiness in my gut. But I won't put too much weight onto that. 266 strikes me as odd because of the thought to WOOHOO back onto my wagon. Especially how most points in Kitten4u's case has been addressed already.
Looking back, the vote was mostly reactionary. A momentary madness, even. I'm leaning neutral for UK as of the moment.
##UNVOTE
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No vote despite having no less than 3 people listed as scummy, KGH?
You do realize that I posted before k4u's points were addressed (and their refutation is not something I precisely agree with), right?
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Seniwac, why do you continue to not vote for me? You put up a decent case against me when addressing UK's idea that I was townish, and you've maintained that suspicion through to your most recent post, and yet you now sit there without a vote on anyone. Are you afraid to vote for me for some reason?
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No vote despite having no less than 3 people listed as scummy, KGH?
You do realize that I posted before k4u's points were addressed (and their refutation is not something I precisely agree with), right?
Oh I realize that. It's just that your "ehhh Seni's town but maybe I'll vote again" that strikes me as odd.
Also, prod on Edible.
##VOTE EDIBLE
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Oh I realize that. It's just that your "ehhh Seni's town but maybe I'll vote again" that strikes me as odd.
Didn't say that. I'd said you are probably town but the wagon on you is rather valid.
Hence the umu reference.
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Yeah, sincerity isn't there when you don't have a vote to show for it. I think there's about 12 hours left and lynches aren't going to happen without votes.
Cut: well yeah already addressed and stuff...
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Sudden change to Natriumdoubleo without giving much of a reason makes me feel queasy. Again, would really like an explanation to why Natriumdoubleo is suspicious. Focus on S-Moriya seems WOOHOO-like.
The short answer is that
*his vote on you is horrible and thinly justified by tacking on others' reasons for calling you scummy
*his follow-up with the vote was apologetic "if placing this person I'm Not Policy Lynching at L-2 is offensive I can take it off"
*trying to sorta kinda not really maybe do exactly the same thing to Zengar "my vote isn't on you but if it were you'd be at L-1 so claim now"
I really don't know how one investigation tagged at the bottom of a post qualifies as WOOHOO focus, but whatever.
Also, Na is Nadium.
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Also, prod on Edible.
##VOTE EDIBLE
The prodvote is really weak at this stage of the game. Kilga makes a good point as to why you don't vote him when you present him as your scummiest suspect.
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...
##Unvote: Zengar
##Vote: Seniwac
That is SERIOUS weaksauce. A prod vote with less than 12 hours to go when you have a better case on me and more conviction about Suwako?
Stack this on top of the "asking questions" schtick you've used throughout most of the day and this recent Day 1 summary (Review: Day 1 summaries are bad because they're an excellent way to look like one is trying - there's never enough activity on Day 1 to get a summary-worth read on everyone) and you've pushed yourself ahead of Zengar for me.
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Having tunnel vision is fun. While I still think I'm hitting the right target I'm embarassed that I didn't notice more things.
I'd like Zengar to elaborate on Serp.
Edible needs to actually lay down a vote.
Suwako needs to actually answer questions.
Those are the only other people that are making me raise my eyebrow, but none of them are nearly as bad as KGH. I have a question for everyone that thinks he's town: why do you think he's town? I'd like more of an answer than "gut," and I don't mind if you repeat things you've already said in case I missed them.
Now back to your regularly schedualed Kitten4u tunneling on KGH.
Kitten4u: Neutral. Seems townie at first with all the pressure on me but I am uneasy with the fact that I am all she's blathered about. Her points on me have been addressed in the past, which is another uneasiness morsel.
Considering that was every reason I was voting for you I don't see why it's shocking that I repeated some things. If you want to refute any of them now would be a great time to do so.
UK: Vote was mainly a reactionary vote. Was really surprised at how quickly you unvoted me after a reread of my posts and votes Kilga after a prompt question. Feels like wishy-washiness in my gut. But I won't put too much weight onto that. 266 strikes me as odd because of the thought to WOOHOO back onto my wagon. Especially how most points in Kitten4u's case has been addressed already.
Looking back, the vote was mostly reactionary. A momentary madness, even. I'm leaning neutral for UK as of the moment.
##UNVOTE
*headdesk* Your questions on UK were basically the only pro-town thing I think you've done all game and you don't even think she's scum? Gah.
No vote despite having no less than 3 people listed as scummy, KGH?
That is SERIOUS weaksauce. A prod vote with less than 12 hours to go when you have a better case on me and more conviction about Suwako?
Instead of repeating them I'll just go ahead and say "this" since they beat me to the punch. Feeling even more comfortable with my vote.
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why do you think he's town? I'd like more of an answer than "gut," and I don't mind if you repeat things you've already said in case I missed them.
Gut is a part of it, but...when I did my reread his subsequent questionings and such seemed more pro town motivated, even if he wasn't using them properly. It's hard to explain really...But that's basically what I got from isolated reread. He's kinda sorta trying to find scum.
Tag fixed!
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I have a question for everyone that thinks he's town: why do you think he's town? I'd like more of an answer than "gut," and I don't mind if you repeat things you've already said in case I missed them.
So how do I explain gut then? Go beat Mokou a few times.
So before the game signups began, Seniwac asked to be allowed to play. In that convo, he asked how town would like it if he played like how I did (in reference to Umineko). I told him it wouldn't be acceptable.
I don't expect him to listen to instructions anyway since we know he's a troll. I'm rationalising that he might be setting up meta with this and from the PoV of being in similar situations plenty of times, he had made genuine effort (despite it going nowhere in particular).
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The text file for which this post is being typed out on is named: "argh"
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KGH: Argh. There are a lot of nitpicky things that I could point out, mainly how different people have pointed out Sodium and your different reads on them. But I'll stick with thinking about the ones you think are scum.
Your points on Kilga aren't really correct. Kilga can spoonfeed you on them fetish time!
if he feels the need to. As for Suwako, yes he should answer your questions but you do need to elaborate on what else he's done to make you think he's Scum.
Your case on Edible actually looks the best though. #223 is the reference. Edible can go back and do an informal vote count from the last official one so he's being lazy there, including not following through on putting a vote down yet. The asking for a claim is a bit impulsive if he bothered to actually check how many votes Zengar had, but I'll call it null because not all newbies know that if they're put at L-1, they're encouraged to roleclaim to see if we are potentially lynching a Town power role. And yes, he hasn't done as much pushing, evidenced in #147. Therefore, his relative lack of effort can be argued as a relative lack of scumhunting which is a decent case against him. Unfortunately, you not initially voting and then calling your vote for Edible a mere prod is a huge downer on your Townieness.
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KGH is definitely looking scummy. About the only thing holding me back is that the Edible case is ok even if he didn't follow through with it properly. Would like to see if Edible's impression of KGH (#117, #147, #223) has changed as a result of KGH's latest posts. And Zengar needs to reply to my questions. Not going to vote switch until these two things are done first. But I will switch if deadline is upon us.
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Post is late due to real life stuff.
I'm annoyed because there's always someone doing stupid things in Day 1, such as Nuclear Fusion's LOLSTUPIDGAMBITSANDI'MACOP.
Oh, and a list of suspicions without a vote is sorta useless. Example: Zengar's list of waffles, which was in this very game, and Zengar was attacked for it.
I can assume that you think Edible is scummier then Kilga and Suwako, seeing as you voted him over those two with 12 hours left, right? If it's true, you contradicted your list-o-suspicions.
---
Zengar needs to post. Scum trying to hide for the rest of the day? This isn't giving me good feelings, as when he made some half-decent posts, he disappears.
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umu: I said that I think he's scum for that beginning crap, and because he isn't scum hunting but just asking questions about every thing he sees. That's pretty much what I did in Touhou Remix when I was scum; ask an assload of questions without doing actual scumhunting.
Second point is valid, but I was rushing that post.
I said I put Zengar equal to Seniwac at that point, so naturally, I could switch at any time. Actually bringing him to L-1 with 48+ hours left would be stupid. At least, I thought it would be an L-1.
---
Chen's getting a free pass into Day 2 I guess, as he had real life issues and such. There's also the chance of him getting a replacement, so yeah.
---
Edible needs to post, vote, etc.
Between Seniwac and Zengar, I'm staying on Seniwac for now. Zengar is bugging me a lot with is absence though, as I said before. I'll give him until 6 hours before deadline.
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You can go ahead and find a replacement for me. I'm busy the next 3 days and I already have another mafia game as it is.
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You can go ahead and find a replacement for me. I'm busy the next 3 days and I already have another mafia game as it is.
Alright then. =V
And then there were two kittens.
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You can go ahead and find a replacement for me. I'm busy the next 3 days and I already have another mafia game as it is.
Alright then. =V
And then there were two kittens.
I hope this doesn't become "And then there were none"
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If Chen's dropping out, I'm willing to step in. Just send me the role PM.
Now I need to read this damn thread. SERIOUSLY PEOPLE HOW DID YOU COME UP WITH 10 PAGES ON DAY 1
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If Chen's dropping out, I'm willing to step in. Just send me the role PM.
Now I need to read this damn thread. SERIOUSLY PEOPLE HOW DID YOU COME UP WITH 10 PAGES ON DAY 1
posts like this one stating only one thing about how usually a day one goes to lock when I'm around. Or at least 15 pages.
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Roukanken has posted once in 10 pages. I find this highly suspect.
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Not only that, but it was to complain about the game.
If that's all you're going to do, you need to replace out.
Serious post to follow.
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Also, after so much time on ms I honestly don't mind this length for Day 1, considering the first two pages are spam.
This is not the aforementioned serious post.
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Not only that, but it was to complain about the game.
If that's all you're going to do, you need to replace out.
Serious post to follow.
And the fact he's trying to claim ignorance of his role PM? Why didn't he bring this up earlier!?
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And the fact he's trying to claim ignorance of his role PM? Why didn't he bring this up earlier!?
NOT READING YOUR ROLE PM IS AGAINST THE SPIRIT OF THE GAME
It also makes you one step closer to Pesco.
-----
I have a question for everyone that thinks he's town: why do you think he's town? I'd like more of an answer than "gut," and I don't mind if you repeat things you've already said in case I missed them.
His initial claim is anti-Town, but not scummy.
The things he has done since then are indeed scummy, but also could be attributed to being ineffective Town.
I do not believe that his lynch will yield a scum flip and have no plans to vote him, but I can see why others are voting him and don't have enough of a problem with it to question the wagon as a whole. Or in other words, I would rather be focusing on other people (Edible, SJMoriya, Serpentarius, to a lesser extent Kilga and Zengar) but if that can't be done, at the very least this wagon isn't an Outrage!.
I said that I think he's scum for that beginning crap
And as before, I'd call that weak.
and because he isn't scum hunting but just asking questions about every thing he sees. That's pretty much what I did in Touhou Remix when I was scum; ask an assload of questions without doing actual scumhunting.
With this last post from KGH I can see this a bit more clearly.
I said I put Zengar equal to Seniwac at that point, so naturally, I could switch at any time. Actually bringing him to L-1 with 48+ hours left would be stupid. At least, I thought it would be an L-1.
You know that this board stops you from posting if you get cut. There should be no accidental hammers on this site. Ergo, L-1 is perfectly acceptable for people you think are scum D1.
Also, 48+ hours? I don't think that's correct.
Last, toying with your vote like that "I could vote you, y'know" doesn't sit well with me.
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And the fact he's trying to claim ignorance of his role PM? Why didn't he bring this up earlier!?
NOT READING YOUR ROLE PM IS AGAINST THE SPIRIT OF THE GAME
It also makes you one step closer to Pesco.
Violation of rule 2 (in that other ruleset). DIE.
(Clicked modify instead of quote :P)
Last, toying with your vote like that "I could vote you, y'know" doesn't sit well with me.
That was the gimmick I said I used as scum.
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Looks like resting from Mafia for the morning got me in suspicion. :/
So looks like everyone wants to know why I'm staying on Serp's trail. The reason is simple, and now is more clear. The speed in which he switched metas on KGH was so sudden, it strikes me as being just because it was easier to say in his tail if he actually had experience.
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I don't expect him to listen to instructions anyway since we know he's a troll. I'm rationalising that he might be setting up meta with this and from the PoV of being in similar situations plenty of times, he had made genuine effort (despite it going nowhere in particular).
What do you mean by "setting up meta"?
His initial claim is anti-Town, but not scummy.
The things he has done since then are indeed scummy, but also could be attributed to being ineffective Town.
Can you name a single scumtell that couldn't be attributed to ineffective Town? If he's been doing anti-town stuff and scummy stuff, as you admit, then I don't follow your reasoning in deciding that he's probably town.
So looks like everyone wants to know why I'm staying on Serp's trail. The reason is simple, and now is more clear. The speed in which he switched metas on KGH was so sudden, it strikes me as being just because it was easier to say in his tail if he actually had experience.
I think you're going to need to explain this a little more fully.
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Uh, I probably won't be back until 8 EST, so yeah.
Quick Note: Zengar: It's not that you were away, but the timing of your disappearance. Also, that's not a lot you know. Who else do you think is scum and why?
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His initial claim is anti-Town, but not scummy.
The things he has done since then are indeed scummy, but also could be attributed to being ineffective Town.
Can you name a single scumtell that couldn't be attributed to ineffective Town?
Not offhand, actually.
If he's been doing anti-town stuff and scummy stuff, as you admit, then I don't follow your reasoning in deciding that he's probably town.
Motive and intuition.
Or, I agree with Pesco.
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Much in the same way that you always make an issue of where RVS ends, you've set up meta so that it doesn't seem out of place for you to make a case based on RVS interactions.
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Much in the same way that you always make an issue of where RVS ends, you've set up meta so that it doesn't seem out of place for you to make a case based on RVS interactions.
Well, yeah, but the difference is that I sincerely believe what I'm preaching here. I'm not doing it for the sake of establishing meta - I'm doing it to win. Are you telling me that you think KGH is purposefully screwing his own win condition this game so that he can breeze by with the same play in future games?
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You shouldn't put it past him to.
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Alright, Role PM received. I was about to post the next installment of my Community Fanworks thing when I got it, so I'll get to putting that up before I comment. Apologies for the delay.
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The "And then there were still thirteen" Votecount
Roukanken officially replaces Chen Yakumo.
EX Na2O2 (L-6): Pesco, U?
Suwako J. Moriya (L-7): Kiro
Kiro (L-7): Suwako J. Moriya
u?(L-7): Khorneish Game Hen
Khorneish Game Hen(L-3): u?, Serpentarius, Uncertain Kitten, Suwako J. Moriya, Kitten4u, Ex Na2O2, Kilgamayan
Hizengar Byakuren (L-4): Kilgamayan, U?, Kiro, Kilgamayan, Pesco, Uncertain Kitten
Pesco (L-7): EX Na2O2, Kilgamayan
Edible (L-6): Kitten4u, Khorneish Game Hen
Kilgamayan (L-7):Hizengar Byakuren
UncertainKitten (L-6): UncertainKitten, Ex Na2O2, Khorneish Game Hen, Suwako J. Moriya
Serpentarius (L-6): Suwako J. Moriya, U?, hizengar Byakuren
EX Na2O2 (L-6): U?
Khorneish Game Hen(L-3): Serpentarius, Kitten4u, Ex Na2O2, Kilgamayan
Hizengar Byakuren (L-4): Kiro, Pesco, Uncertain Kitten
Edible (L-6): Khorneish Game Hen
UncertainKitten (L-6): Suwako J. Moriya
Serpentarius (L-6): hizengar Byakuren
Note Voting: Roukanken, Edible?
By my count, there' seven and a half hours left in the day. Remember, since Haiku rule is in effect, you don't really need a majority for a lynch to occur, but it would make you feel better, wouldn't it?
-
I'll attempt to wake up early. No guarantees.
-
We could always make KGH and Zengar compete in haiku ^-^.
That'd be fun :P.
-
cya all. I'm goin to DnD. Prolly not gonna be back for deadline. bai!
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Oooooooookay. I was gonna start by asking for an extension, but apparently Zak doesn't play with exemptions. >_>
KGH seems like a well-intentioned new player. If he was playing the newbie card as scum, I doubt he would be making this much effort to actually play.
In comparison, Zengar's position is much worse. He's also making newbie mistakes, but I'm not getting the same feeling of, well, honestly as I did with KGH. He gets explicitly asked here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1918.msg74858#msg74858) to weigh in with some real opinions, and all he produces is 'Vote Serp for not changing his mind on KGH'. When KGH was at L-2, showing that obviously Serp wasn't alone in his opinion. And if not commenting on the previous cases is bad, then Zengar himself is probably even more guilty than Serp is.
Vote: Hizengar Byakuren (L-3)
I'm really sorry about the lack of content, I haven't had the time to read over the day in detail. I'll try to get up to speed during the night phase. -_-
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Oh, hello.
##vote Zengar as promised. I don't think my opinion of him will change between now and the end of Day 1, and I feel his lynch has a better chance of being beneficial (I.E. scum) than Tasty Chicken Man's.
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I sent out a PM to Zak, but I need to replace out due to hideous illness ruining my brain + uni shenanigans. Worst time to get sick ever. :/
This request has been noted. If you would like to replace Moriya, please send in a PM.
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Response to Kiro:
Your statement on my Kilga points is highly suspect. First of all, you claim that they're wrong without providing a reason. Secondly, you point me towards Kilga on why my posts are wrong. However, in Kilga posts 277 and 283, he has no objection against my case; in fact, he finds it strange that I am not voting for the person in my best case: him. Now why would you do this? His posts did come before yours.
The reason why S-Moriya is suspect is mainly because he hasn't answered the questions. But let's take a look again.
114: Claims I am anti-town but not exactly scummy. Concludes I am lying and then wants me to die. The reasoning, that it was a conscious anti-townie move, is not enough. Why does anti-townie mean lying?
oh goddammit what switching out
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So looks like everyone wants to know why I'm staying on Serp's trail. The reason is simple, and now is more clear. The speed in which he switched metas on KGH was so sudden, it strikes me as being just because it was easier to say in his tail if he actually had experience.
I think you're going to need to explain this a little more fully.
Ok. Basically you were treating initially Hen as newbie, but it wasn't until he explained himself that you saw the WIFOMess that was already touched before. Thus, I think that you changed you view just to see him as scum easier.
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Aaaaaaand I'm back(started this post at 7:40ish). I thought my real life business would take a bit longer, but I guess it didn't. So let's see.
Firstly, Hi Roukan, and welcome to my world when I replace at the end of Day 1(read:always).
Secondly, Zengar didn't answer my question. And his latest post is pretty bad. It was low on content, and seemed half-assed. It's actually worse then Seniwac's latest posts.
Let's see...
Zengar:
Tunneled on Seniwac
Waffled on Seniwac(lolwut, tunneling and waffling...XD)
Made a Wall of Waffles
Wall of Waffles didn't lead to a vote
Voted Serp for some awkward reasons, elaborates on it ineffectively
Didn't do anything outside of the above(...yeah)
Seniwac:
Beginning nonsense
Mass Questioning, semi-reactionary
No/Extremely Little Scumhunting
Suspicion Wall leads to no vote
Prod vote on Edible, badly timed and badly executed
...I wish they could both die, but Zengar takes the cake, especially after that lousy post(250). Point by Point, Zengar is actually worse now that I've made a list and compared them. Oh, and he has that point against him where he doesn't do anything noteworthy outside what I wrote.
Seniwac: Suwako voted you because:
You said that you were trying to end RVS in an outlandish way
Suwako believes that no townie would do that
You claimed VT
Suwako believes that the claim is a dirty dirty lie because no townie would do that, so you must not be town
Lynch All Liars(Basic rule, but there could possibly be exceptions)
Suwako votes you because he thinks you lied about being VT
Well, that's what I thought he meant. This is also highly simplified. Suwako, tell me if I got it wrong, because this is my best guess to whether you...wait. Fuck, you dropped out. Damit. Well, this is what I thought you meant. If I'm wrong, then sorry for misrep.
Edible: Elaborate? What else do you think? Do you have a post restriction or something? That post gives some justification to Seniwac's prod vote on you.
##Unvote
##Vote Zengar (L-1)
Zengar, Roleclaim, give some opinions, and state your thought process for the day. Or at least post something, if you're here.
Cut by Zengar. Read the above.
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There is still the fact that he believes an anti-town lynch would be preferrable to a scum lynch, implied by his reasoning.
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"So you must not be town", meaning he thinks you're scum/not town. The Lynch All Liars is just an extension of it(he did say "you're lying").
Zengar waiting games.
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And the first statement is "anti-town, but not scummy."
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Also urge to hammer rising...
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Don't hammer before a roleclaim.
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Don't hammer before a roleclaim.
Of course. Although it is tempting, I will hold off.
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If Chen's dropping out, I'm willing to step in. Just send me the role PM.
Now I need to read this damn thread. SERIOUSLY PEOPLE HOW DID YOU COME UP WITH 10 PAGES ON DAY 1
1. Khorneish Game Hen
2. u?
3. Hizengar Byakuren
4. Kitten-4u
5. Kiro
6. Chen Yakumo
7. Pesco
8. Serpentarius
9. Kilgamayan
10. Suwako J. Moriya
10.5. Edible?
11. UncertainKitten
12. EX Na2O2
Look at each of the player's profile's Total Time Spent Online
wait this coming from a guy who failed at mafia
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NOT IN THE GAME, DO NOT POST.
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oh hey so is this like random posting time while we wait for a roleclaim?
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Eh, probably either Kilga or Serp are hammering me so well, my thought process:
1) Hen looks weird... but it can be anything.
2) Hen does not look THAT weird actually... I need to rethink. (Or think less)
3) OK, Hen looks clean. Time to see the rest. posting about everyone.
4) Looks like not voting gets me into trouble, voting for the best case I have.
5) Serp looks suspicious with that pattern, I better vote him than anybody else.
And then it's just reaffirming my vote, while needing to explain myself constantly.
Cut by LOTS OF PEOPLE:
Also, Well, the role. I am Chiyuri Kitashiwakawa, Mafia Goon. Hammer away.
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Also, Well, the role. I am Chiyuri Kitashiwakawa, Mafia Goon. Hammer away.
k
##Unvote
## Vote Hizengar Byakuren
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NOoooooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOO
I WANTED TO DRAW HIS BLOOOOooooD
:<
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jesus christ Zengar did you actually claim Scum when prompted?
holy shit. I think the facepalm I just made could be heard from outer space.
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jesus christ Zengar did you actually claim Scum when prompted?
holy shit. I think the facepalm I just made could be heard from outer space.
What could else could he have claimed that might make him look better?
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Anything?
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It's no different than a self-hammer, really.
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Anything?
But how would you react if he claimed Cop and his reasoning for abstaining was that he wanted to investigate people over night?
how would you react to that?
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That's normally not what people mean by a roleclaim, but etc.
Actually, I'm tempted to call that one staged. Zengar wasn't good at blending in, but I would hope he knew better than that - especially with scum daytalk backing him up.
With that in mind I'm going to say something edgy and controversial. Kitten4u, I've seen you active fairly constantly tonight, but you only posted to hammer Zengar. What have you been waiting on?
Also, I see HAMMER SHUT UP has been abandoned. Oh well.
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Gah, I had a game related post ready to go, but it's now Twilight.
@Mod: Are we allowed to talk about ongoing events in Twilight? The rules don't make that quite clear as they only mention votes and unvotes not counting.
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Twilight.
My heart skipped for a second. Then I realized which Twilight you were talking about.
@Mod: Are we allowed to talk about ongoing events in Twilight? The rules don't make that quite clear as they only mention votes and unvotes not counting.
If not, there are a lot of modkills to be passed around.
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With that in mind I'm going to say something edgy and controversial. Kitten4u, I've seen you active fairly constantly tonight, but you only posted to hammer Zengar. What have you been waiting on?
I'm going to wait until we know that we can talk about game related stuff during twilight before I answer. If we can't I'll answer this first thing D2.
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4. Once a majority is reached, I will ignore all subsequent votes and unvotes and the day will end with that person's death. You may talk during twilight.
Go.
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Ah, alrighty. It seemed like the main reason the people that found KGH town was based on gut and that was very hard for me to work with. While some other reasons were offered I felt it really came down to that, so I basically had no idea what to say and I was trying to think of ways to get people to go for the lynch I wanted. Naturally, when Zengar claimed scum I saw no reason to not hammer since, while I didn't think he was as scummy as KGH, I did think he was scummy.
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I've got a query. Why was my not-case on UK the only pro-town thing I've ever done?
Are you implying that UK is scummy there?
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Ah, alrighty. It seemed like the main reason the people that found KGH town was based on gut and that was very hard for me to work with. While some other reasons were offered I felt it really came down to that, so I basically had no idea what to say and I was trying to think of ways to get people to go for the lynch I wanted. Naturally, when Zengar claimed scum I saw no reason to not hammer since, while I didn't think he was as scummy as KGH, I did think he was scummy.
That works for now. Thank you!
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The "You may shut up now." Votecount
EX Na2O2 (L-6): Pesco, Uµ
Suwako J. Moriya (L-7): Kiro
Kiro (L-7): Suwako J. Moriya
uµ(L-7): Khorneish Game Hen
Khorneish Game Hen(L-5): uµ, Serpentarius, Uncertain Kitten, Suwako J. Moriya, Kitten4u, Ex Na2O2, Kilgamayan
Hizengar Byakuren (L-0): Kilgamayan, Uµ, Kiro, Kilgamayan, Pesco, Uncertain Kitten, Roukanken, Edible?, EX Na2O2, Kitten4U
Pesco (L-7): EX Na2O2, Kilgamayan
Edible (L-6): Kitten4u, Khorneish Game Hen
Kilgamayan (L-7):Hizengar Byakuren
UncertainKitten (L-6): UncertainKitten, Ex Na2O2, Khorneish Game Hen, Suwako J. Moriya
Serpentarius (L-6): Suwako J. Moriya, Uµ, hizengar Byakuren
Hizengar has been Lynched. He was Chiyuri Kitashiwakawa, Of Gensokyo a Mafia Goon.
It is now Night 1. Please send in all night actions if you have any.
Alice Officially Replaces Suwako J. Moriya now.
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The Arguing, never ending, flowed back and forth between two suspects. The identities known as Seniwac and Zengar, the latter of which apparently is dressing up like the identity known as EX Na2O2.
Suddenly, Chen Yakumo, who had been sleeping in the corner all day snapped wide awake, Stood up, and pointed towards Zengar. In an Alien, Male voice, she spoke. "Vote: Zengar!" The tower soon toppled on him, as he was brought to L-1 and told to Claim. So he did.
"I ... Am Chiyuri! And it's wrong, what you're doing! Taking control of other humans, dictating their lives just for your own comfort! Do you even realize what you're doing to these poor people!? I saw myself. Another Me. From another world outside Gensokyo. She was being controled, manipulated by the Red Haired woman. I Could never stand living a life like that! I know how these people feel, and what you evil Youkai do to them is horrible! You. should. be. a-shamed."
The group took a step back. They looked upon themselves. Then turned back towards Zengar. Their only reply: "Umm ... no."
They took Zengar, marched him to the Ruins of the Gensokyo Danmaku Tournament, and locked him inside. The ruins glowed as the door shut, and the ruins floated into the air. They zoomed off into the sky, to some far away planet.
"Nooooo!" Another Chiyuri Cried. "And we had just found our ship!"
"This is your fault for taking too long!" Yumemi Shouted to her Assistant.
The two were left crying in the distance as the Group returned to the meeting hall.
"By the way, Chen, Thanks!"
Chen Yakumo looked down at her red dress. She felt her green hat. She then spoke in her alien voice again. "Ahh, geez. I need to go change. And my Name's not Chen, it's Roukanken." He stormed off in the other direction to find a new set of clothing.
-
Chiyuri Kitashiwakawa, Of Gensokyo
What is this Chiyuri Kitashiwakawa? I don't know any Chiyuri Kitasiwakawa. Perhaps you mean Chiyuri Kitashirakawa, Yumemi's Assistant, whom most of us would happen to know (and have recently sent back off into space~)
-
Everyone Woke up. That was an overstatement, however, since one person was missing this morning.
"Hey! Someone's not here!"
"Who is it?"
"Umu..."
"The person, or the Moe sound effect?"
It later turned out it was both. As uµ was later found fallen over, and white as a sheet. As if she had seen a ghost. Or was a ghost. You can't really tell. You search her body for belongings, except you couldn't find any. No Magic Spellbooks, No Magic Wands, No Brooms, not even a Giant Tank. You especially know there's no Giant Tank, because one would not be hard to spot. Most importantly, however, She was robbed of a Girl's most identifying icon - Her hat. Or Ribbon. Or Tank.
uµ was killed last night. He was A Person who had the ability to Do something ... maybe.
Day 2 officially begins, and will end Sept. 3, 11:00 A.M. EST
*brought to you 10 minutes earlier, because I'm nice. And Tired.
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Alright, I'm going to assume Umu got janned.
Well, the first thing I want to say is:
##Vote: Kitten4u
You were pretty adamant on lynching KGH yesterday, to the point where the Zengar case was pretty much entirely non-existent to you. Looking at it, I'm seeing one reference (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1918.msg75648#msg75648) to the Zengar case before the scumclaim. What made KGH so scummy and Zengar so uninteresting?
-
I actually need a reread.
I'll get to it some time in between writing my philosophy essay.
-
So there's a Janitor, huh? That's irritating. Hopefully it's limited-shot.
I have a sneaking suspicion one of Edible and UK bussed Zenger (if not both) but nothing in particular to support it beyond Edible's lurkiness and Suwako's prods against UK. Much as I hate to say it, call this one a gut feeling.
Reasons for disliking Seniwac have not changed.
Alice didn't post once before the hammer dropped. Obvscum.
##Vote: Sodium Peroxide
Holy shit this guy had a FUCKTON of "Zengar you're very suspicious!" and "oh hey I'm gonna vote Zengar soon!" throughout Day 1. It's actually pretty hilarious to go back and see just how much cheerleading he was doing for the Zengar train while sticking to Seniwac despite having better stated reasons to vote for Zengar (and the opportunity to be a swing vote late in the day! (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1918.msg75717#msg75717)). He only voted for Zengar when Edible pushed Zengar ahead of Seniwac while time is running out so he gets no town credit for that.
Also worth noting: Zengar's one comment about Sodium was in the dreaded Day 1 Wall O' 'Pinions (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1918.msg74594#msg74594) and it wasn't even an actual opinion about Sodium.
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I'm going to have to do some re-reading and thinking because Zengar's last post confuses me a lot. Question, is it possible to view people's posts in isolation? I'd like to do that, but I can't find anything that would let me.
I've got a query. Why was my not-case on UK the only pro-town thing I've ever done?
Are you implying that UK is scummy there?
Answering this now since Zakeri told us to stop talking before I posted before. It just looked like the only bit of genuine scum hunting to me. Most of your other questions felt extremely reactional and I still don't think you really did anything with them, so I still consider them "trying to look like you're scum hunting when you're really not."
Well, the first thing I want to say is:
##Vote: Kitten4u
You were pretty adamant on lynching KGH yesterday, to the point where the Zengar case was pretty much entirely non-existent to you. Looking at it, I'm seeing one reference (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1918.msg75648#msg75648) to the Zengar case before the scumclaim. What made KGH so scummy and Zengar so uninteresting?
I made one other reference (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1918.msg74517#msg74517), but yeah I was tunneling on KGH pretty badly. Zengar was on my scumdar since that post was made, I just found KGH a lot scummier for reasons I outlined here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1918.msg75492#msg75492). Overall, I considered trying to make himself look newbish (esspecially since it looks like he tried to use it as a defense once), what I think is a slip and just generally doing nothing that gave me any reason to think he was town made me want to lynch him over Zengar.
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Condescending explanation: Sodium Peroxide is scummy for repeatedly agreeing with cases on a flipped scum but never actually putting his vote down on that flipped scum until they were doomed despite having better stated reasons to vote for this flipped scum than the guy he was voting. This strongly suggests he was searching for townie credit by agreeing with a case on someone that would eventually flip scum if they died while holding out hope that the Seniwac case would push through in the end.
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I'm going to have to do some re-reading and thinking because Zengar's last post confuses me a lot. Question, is it possible to view people's posts in isolation? I'd like to do that, but I can't find anything that would let me.
Go into a member's profile and choose 'Show Posts'. You might have some people with stuff sticking out outside of mafia, but it's as close as you can hope to get.
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Or used the Advanced Search function to search for a given user's posts and restrict the search to this forum.
You may still get non-game posts but the litter will be far less prevalent.
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##Vote: Sodium Peroxide
Holy shit this guy had a FUCKTON of "Zengar you're very suspicious!" and "oh hey I'm gonna vote Zengar soon!" throughout Day 1. It's actually pretty hilarious to go back and see just how much cheerleading he was doing for the Zengar train while sticking to Seniwac despite having better stated reasons to vote for Zengar (and the opportunity to be a swing vote late in the day! (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1918.msg75717#msg75717)). He only voted for Zengar when Edible pushed Zengar ahead of Seniwac while time is running out so he gets no town credit for that.
True that. Using a move scumPesco used before is just plain stupid.
##Vote Sodium
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Hi there. Going to reread sodium before I hope of the wagon of AWESSOOOOOOOOME!
Further, I really hope it's just a janitor. There's a role I made once that was a great deal worse than a janitor that had a similar effect. The difference being it was passive not active. As long as they were alive people sent to the graveyard did not have role revealed. I used it on MS in a mini theme once. I don't remember if Zak was in it or not, so it might not be germane...I'm just putting out other possibilities (and giving future mods some ideas ^-^)
But yeah, Sodium, reread, GOOOOOOOO!
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First serious post is 90, the whole vote for me. Somewhat fair. I'd like to state it's not like he said anything about the roleclaim before that either. Though he might not of been around.
96 is more about me. Also where we get the "I didn't wanna vote seniwac cause he had votes already!"
So far, nothing overtly scummy, just observing.
144 is intriguing. He doesn't outright say anything like I'm less scummy, but he implies it, but in a way that allows him to switch back if he likes. At least that's how I read it. We get the usual L-2 disclaimer, vote for Seni...despite the fact he just called Edible suspicious in the first sentence? I wanna file that away for future futureness.
and Zengar...well, what I said was mainly a warning to him to TALK ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE. But yeah, he's probably second in terms of scumminess actually, but I am giving him a slight newbie leniency.
This isn't critical from 150 yet, but it's the start of what Kilga's talking about.
Also, Edible is more explained, so forget that earlier note.
2. Edible is useless in that he isn't posting anything that resembles analysis when we know he can. Zengar is useless in that he's... tunneling and waffling on his tunnel target. It just doesn't work, and it's horrible.
3. Both. I do think he's scum, but I'll admit that part of my vote is also because he's annoying, acceptable loss, etc. Mostly the scum part though(65/35 perhaps(although the annoyance part is still a bit big...))
Quite a condemnation but a nice poke against Seni to keep his vote alive...This is post 152
Gotta agree with Kilga on Zengar's post.
Post 165 is the L-1 thingy he got called out on plus an intent to vote Zengar without actually ever doing it...
237 is coming closer to "well, Zengar's scum but I still won't vote him, raaaaaaaargh Seniwac"
Zengar needs to post. Scum trying to hide for the rest of the day? This isn't giving me good feelings, as when he made some half-decent posts, he disappears.
I really wish I had noticed this earlier. WHAT half decent posts!?
Between Seniwac and Zengar, I'm staying on Seniwac for now. Zengar is bugging me a lot with is absence though, as I said before. I'll give him until 6 hours before deadline.
Uh huh...
288 is seriously "Focus...focus...try to pat Zengar while ignoring him...must kill Seni...not scumbuddy..."
It's a Miracle! In 317, Sodium! Votes! Zengar! AFter talking about him ALL GAME without action.
Also, anyone else notice most of his posts were about Zengar and seniwac, with a slight poke at Chen and answering a few questions Umu asked? Yeeeeeeah.
Ok...with daytalk, I'm half tempted to say that the claiming scum AFTER sodium voted was a gambit. But it really could have been a ridiculously newb mistake. In the end, I can't be sure, but Sodiums track record is really worth a vote at this point. Though I wanna reread one of my earlier posts before I do that. Don't worry, it'll take me like 3 minutes.
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As I thought, I saw connections to Zengar. However, I think Sodium's connections are far stronger than what I saw between Kilga and Zen. OF course, I do keep Kilga as a potential suspect just in case.
But with that, ##Vote Sodium
that's the third vote, and L-FuckifIknowGIVEUSAVOTECOUNTZAK
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Alright, since everyone's so against Sodium, I gave him a reread. Here's what I've got:
NOT TALKING ABOUT ROLECLAIM IS SRS BZNS. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1918.msg74101#msg74101)
UK is wishy washy, but KGH is just as bad. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1918.msg74208#msg74208)
You didn't ask KGH whether he was a good player. SCUMMY. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1918.msg74319#msg74319)
Edible is producing nothing but I WON'T VOTE HIM. Mentions Zengar looking bad at the end of his long list of suspicions. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1918.msg74541#msg74541)
Unaware of the fact that scum could daytalk in this game. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1918.msg74556#msg74556) This is, in my opinion, the most interesting excerpt from him, replying to UK here. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1918.msg74546#msg74546)
Firstly, why was UK so insistent on bringing up 'BTW scum can daytalk so putting KGH to L-2 is bad'? Secondly, can we determine whether Sodium honestly forgot about daytalk? If he did then he's pretty much clear because scum would obviously know, but unless I can get some PescoHax in here I can't be sure.
Admits that he's voting KGH partially because he's annoy, though he does think he's scum. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1918.msg74564#msg74564) Finds Edible worse than Zengar for not producing at all.
Calls on Zengar to claim and supports his lynch, but doesn't move his vote. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1918.msg74801#msg74801) Also worth considering, since if Sodium was actually scum, Zengar would probably take this as guidance and have claimed there and then; and I doubt that Mafiosi would be that keen on forcing their teammates to claim.
SCUMHUNT KGH, PLEASE (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1918.msg74940#msg74940)
Again, calls on KGH to produce some hunting. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1918.msg75236#msg75236)
SUDDEN MASSIVE CASE ON ZENGAR. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1918.msg76055#msg76055)
Overall, Sodium's reaction to Zengar is probably what's going to make or break this case. He could simply be a Townie tunneling KGH, since as well as Zengar he had plenty to see about people like Edible, or he could be making a deliberate effort to avoid voting his buddy. I'd like to see more from him before I make a conclusion, but the only thing stopping me from writing him off as a misguided Townie is his sudden turn on Zengar at the end of the day.
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Gonna be extra busy all through September, my playing time during working hours is going to suffer a bit. Although you wouldn't know it from the size of this post. :P But by next week for sure.
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To start off on Sodium, his reply to umu's questions in #152 is commentating about how terrible Zengar is while keeping his vote on KGH. There's a mention of KGH being like 65-35 scum/annoyance which annoyed me. If the annoyance factor is one of the few things putting KGH over a then-suspicious-but-now-confirmed Scum Zengar, doesn't look too hot especially if KGH flips Town.
Looking at the votecount fiasco:
Hizengar Byakuren (L-3): Kilgamayan, U?, Kiro, Kilgamayan, Pesco
Zengar, those words are meaningless, especially because YOU STILL HAVEN'T VOTED ANYONE YET (RVS not included). You compiled a suspicions lists, and yet, I see no actual suspicions; all I see is "MAYBE, MAYBE NOT" and "NOTHING". Then there's no vote, which just confirms that you have no suspicions. You're pretty much at L-1 now. (Role)Claim.
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So I'm keeping my vote on Heniwac(Hen+Seniwac), but I'm fine with and willing to vote for Zengar. No more newbie sympathy for him.
There's the early call out to roleclaim that I didn't catch earlier. I thought only Edible asked someone to roleclaim before they were actually at L-1 on Day 1, but yeah... And it's not like your threat of a vote to Zengar (which you weren't going to do at this time) would have taken Zengar to L-1. Unneeded, early rolefishing = bad. I did see you clarify that you misread what the mod wrote, but I already pointed out that the whole "he should consider me having a vote on Zengar" was a terrible thing to say.
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I am amused that KGH pointed the above out in #167, but unvoted UK and left his vote sitting nowhere. You're still high on the suspect list for this reverse waffle and for questioning more than analysis. You can find most of why I thought your points about Kilga were wrong in the following:
Seniwac: I want to see less ????????????? from you and more "I think _____ is scum because _________". Asking questions does not give us your opinions.
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Voting staying on Zengar. The scummy approach to the Seniwac situation is still the worst thing I've seen all game.
This was what I was going to post before Zengar got hammered in Day 1. It's true Kilga didn't stay on Zengar in the end, but I still don't see enough of a problem with Kilga to consider Kilga a top case right now.
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Serp also note Sodium's counting error as well in #182, but doesn't take specific action as he says most of the votes on Zengar look like prods. And in #241, says he would favor a lurking Chen lynch over Zengar, but under KGH. Meaning Zengar is 3rd under these two. A point of consideration depending on these other possible flips. And on a gut level, if you want to consider the Scum newbie factor, Zengar's almost nonsensical vote of Serp could be a weak bus attempt. I'm reaching a bit on that last point, but I think Serp's case as a whole is worth considering as well. I think umu mentioned something in his #271 about both of them being linked, I'll need to check it later when I can spare the time to do so.
For now, Sodium spends a lot of time criticizing Zengar, but stays on KGH for most of the day till the end. While he's actually been consistent in putting KGH and Zengar as #1 and #2, the fact that he switched a little awkwardly at the end has been noted along with a bunch of weird things he's said that are rather anti-Townie.
##Vote Sodium Peroxide L-2 by informal vote count
Cut by Rou: I wouldn't call Sodium's switch to Zengar "sudden." It was just him finally putting the money where his mouth was, but it's arguably when the lynch was looking more secure. Rou tied the wagons at L-3, Edible shifted Zengar to L-2, before Sodium made Zengar L-1 and KGH L-4.
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Firstly, why was UK so insistent on bringing up 'BTW scum can daytalk so putting KGH to L-2 is bad'?
That was more for future reference. I didn't say it was necessarily going to be super bad at the moment.
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The "Whoa, you guys don't hold back" Votecount.
Kitten4U: Roukanken (L-6)
EX Na2O2: Kilgamayan, Pesco, UncertainKitten, Kiro (L-2)
Not Voting: Khorneish Game Hen, Kitten4u, Serpentarius, Alice (J.) Margatroid, Edible?, EX Na2O2
EX Na2O2 is at L-2.
There are still 68 hours in the day.
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(and the opportunity to be a swing vote late in the day! (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1918.msg75717#msg75717)). He only voted for Zengar when Edible pushed Zengar ahead of Seniwac while time is running out so he gets no town credit for that.
I would've made that post(my post with the lists) earlier if I didn't have real life stuff to do(and thus, I would've voted earlier too). I did say that I wouldn't be back until 8(although I was back 20 minutes early, but whatever). Also, a mistake on my part, but I didn't make lists comparing the two until that post; I had assumed that Seniwac was worse, because of my stupid gut, and when I did a brief re-read for that post and made those lists, I found Zengar scummier.
Also worth noting: Zengar's one comment about Sodium was in the dreaded Day 1 Wall O' 'Pinions (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1918.msg74594#msg74594) and it wasn't even an actual opinion about Sodium.
I fail to see how this is noteworthy when another half of the list was "nothing" too.
Roukan: I swear I forgot there was daytalk. I'm always forgetful of t3h rulez(my Bah post in Remix, and other various incidents).
UK:Half-decent to me is "not shitty"(if it's half of "decent" it's still probably not good). They weren't as bad as his previous posts, so I just said "half-decent".
Also, anyone else notice most of his posts were about Zengar and seniwac, with a slight poke at Chen and answering a few questions Umu asked? Yeeeeeeah.
You forgot about me talking about how Edible was useless, and that early day thing ABOUT YOU. My poke at Chen was about a line long. -_-
Oh yeah, right. An error in one of my posts was the "I'm giving him 6 hours until deadline". Uh, that was stupid of me because 6 hours before deadline would've been when I'm asleep. DEEEERP.
So I still find Seniwac scummy.
##Vote KGH Seniwac might not be valid to the mod.
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You forgot about me talking about how Edible was useless, and that early day thing ABOUT YOU. My poke at Chen was about a line long. -_-
Hence the most qualifier. I did forget the Edible poke though. As it stands though, you focused mostly on KGH and Zengar.
UK:Half-decent to me is "not shitty"(if it's half of "decent" it's still probably not good). They weren't as bad as his previous posts, so I just said "half-decent".
When I asked I meant more specific examples.
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"Hey! Someone's not here!"
"Who is it?"
"Umu..."
"The person, or the Moe sound effect?"
Hahahahah christ.
Analysis of Zengar's flip pending until I'm less swamped at work. In the meantime:
Hence the most qualifier. I did forget the Edible poke though. As it stands though, you focused mostly on KGH and Zengar.
UK, there's a saying you like to use sometimes, concerning the flinging of poo and pointing out where it sticks. That's pretty much exactly what Sodium did all during Day 1.
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UK, there's a saying you like to use sometimes, concerning the flinging of poo and pointing out where it sticks. That's pretty much exactly what Sodium did all during Day 1.
Oh, using that old tell of mine? To be fair you have somewhat of a point. The speed he dropped the non KGH and Zengar cases was intriguing.
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Alright, first off, I should explicitly point out that Zengar's flip does nothing at all to make KGH look more townie. That Zengar was pushed as an alternative lynch when the KGH wagon was in good health doesn't mean anything, since scum would've had no reason to push for Zengar to be lynched instead of KGH, whatever KGH's alignment turns out to be. That said, now that we have a scumflip to analyze, it's irresponsible to just go on with our D1 cases.
Now, the impressions I get upon a full reread:
Zengar's reaction to KGH's roleclaim was extremely noncommital. This has been noted, but now we can look at it in the context of Zengar's flip. He looks genuinely surprised by it, which implies that if KGH was his scumbuddy, they didn't discuss it beforehand. His stance remains ambiguous until he ends up catching flak for it. After that, the two have very little to say about each other. Zengar claimed that my reasoning for going after KGH was bad, but went mostly silent about KGH himself later in the day. KGH summarizes Zengar along with everyone else in his 275, but only to waffle on him. I also notice that neither voted for the other, even though they each would've had the best chance to avoid getting lynched by pursuing a case on the other. This could indicate a scumpair, since they would've known that scum was going to get lynched either way unless a third player could be lynched instead.
Sodium's 237 includes a positive read on Zengar's recent posts with the admission that it wouldn't be enough to save him, even though Sodium himself wasn't even voting Zengar at that point. He could've been trying to air pro-town sentiment of Zengar in hope of influencing the town into agreeing with him, without connecting himself too closely.
Suwako's 247 avoided both KGH and Zengar, and placed what was essentially a throwaway vote that late in the day. I didn't notice this at the time, but it looks bad to me. Since he later replaced out, it could be that he just wasn't putting thought into it, but it's worthy of note.
As for stuff that's happened since my last post:
There's the early call out to roleclaim that I didn't catch earlier. I thought only Edible asked someone to roleclaim before they were actually at L-1 on Day 1, but yeah... And it's not like your threat of a vote to Zengar (which you weren't going to do at this time) would have taken Zengar to L-1. Unneeded, early rolefishing = bad. I did see you clarify that you misread what the mod wrote, but I already pointed out that the whole "he should consider me having a vote on Zengar" was a terrible thing to say.
If Zengar had flipped town, this would be bad, and it'd be a bad move for a townie-Sodium in general, but since Zengar was scum, scum-Sodium couldn't have been rolefishing here. It could still be an oversight by scum, not thinking through the implications of his actions if he were a townie, though.
Sodium's vote on KGH in his 362 is bad 'cause he doesn't even try to connect Zengar to KGH. He's basically just continuing with his preferred D1 case, which would be lazy if our D1 lynch had produced nothing, but is downright scummy since we ought to be looking for connections with Zengar.
Regarding Kitten4u, she did explicitly admit to some tunnel vision and made a stab at some other cases before she even got called out on it, which I guess could be scum realizing her mistake in ignoring her scumbuddy and trying to cover her tracks, but could also be a townie legitimately making a tactical error and admitting to it to air her thought process.
Anyway, I don't see any new cases to bring forward. Those who tried to swing the lynch towards Zengar generally look better for it, those who tried to swing it away generally look worse for it. There was very likely some bussing at one point or another. Sodium looks most scummy to me right now, but I'm not going to bring him to L-1 seven hours into the day. KGH is a strong second choice. I'll put my vote there with the understanding that Sodium tops my suspicion list, pending the other players' D2 posts.
##Vote: Khorneish Game Hen
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Notice how hilariously appropriate Sodium's attacks are on himself as of the moment (don't pay this too much heed; it's a joke)
But seriously Sodium. Why did you vote me again? What possible scummy connection do you see with me and Zengar?
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<Exclamation>, go <alignment>
Also, which of you wiseacres is responsible for my personal text <.<
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<Exclamation>, go <alignment>
Also, which of you wiseacres is responsible for my personal text <.<
Not I, but it's brilliant (Don't think I could do it anyway. Probably Edible or Kilga has something to do with it)
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I have nothing in particular to address regarding Sodium's post.
The personal text change must have been Edible (or maybe Suwako) because it wasn't me.
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I have nothing in particular to address regarding Sodium's post.
The personal text change must have been Edible (or maybe Suwako) because it wasn't me.
suwako has powahs?
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After seeing an explanation, I'm not convinced by the Sodium case. It's true that he tunnelled on KGH, but Kitten4u was a much worse offender. At least Sodium went on to mention people like Edible.
In other news, Alice owes us a post, and I'm still waiting on Edible to explain what's going on.
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After seeing an explanation, I'm not convinced by the Sodium case. It's true that he tunnelled on KGH, but Kitten4u was a much worse offender. At least Sodium went on to mention people like Edible.
In other news, Alice owes us a post, and I'm still waiting on Edible to explain what's going on.
But most of the arguements against Sodium were not because of his tunneling.
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Mafia: Good for my soul, bad for my grades. Probably won't be able to post again tonight due to homework, which I probably should have worked on instead of doing my reread.
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My top suspect is still KGH. I find him scummy for reasons I've outlined here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1918.msg75492#msg75492), and I've noticed some connections between him and Zengar in my reread.
First, Zengar spends a lot of time tunneling and waffling on KGH which is really weird and awkward. Seems likely that he didn't know how to react to his buddy doing anti-town (and later scummy) things.
Then his "paranoia" on KGH magically vanishes and it sounds like he views him as obv town. To the point he actually votes Serp because KGH is so obv town. It's important to note that neither Zengar nor KGH ever place a vote on each other. In fact, KGH dismisses early Zengar stuff as newbtown reactions in a waffly way (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1918.msg75609#msg75609). Once again, I find the exact wording note-worthy.
First stuck me as newbtown not knowing how to deal with a bandwagon.
The fact that KGH seemed extremely eager to hammer Zengar also makes me feel uneasy.
##Vote Khorneish Game Hen
With that said, since he is once again my top suspect, if I start tunneling please hit me over the head with the nearest blunt object.
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I noticed a few other note worthy things in my reread as well. First involves Serp post 241 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1918.msg75310#msg75310).
If Chen continues to establish himself as a lurker, count me as favoring a Chen lynch over a Zengar lynch, but below a KGH lynch.
At this point were you still okay with a Zengar lynch? If so, why did you favor what is basically a policy lynch over one that involved someone actually saying scummy things? Esspecially since Rou had said that he was willing to replace in the sign up topic?
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The other involves Suwako's 247 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1918.msg75334#msg75334).
Feeling [Zengar] to be kinda newbtown at the moment though.
I don't like that he was willing to dismiss that as newbtowness. Why was newbtown more likely to do that than newbscum? Not to mention he voted for someone on the Zengar wagon for switching to the Zengar wagon for valid reasons. Coupled with the fact that he didn't answer questions makes him the next scummiest after KGH. Unfortunately, he got replaced and it would be unfair to expect Alice to be able to read his mind, so I'll just wait to see what Alice has to say about stuff.
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Since Sodium is the current topic I'll put in my two cents too. Currently leaning town despite the Zengar connections for basically the same reasons as Rou. Only thing I have to add is this:
Oh yeah, just because I want to check something...
@Mod: Is there any role in this game that has dying as a victory condition(ie Jester)
That combined with the fact that he didn't know that daytalk was allowed makes me think that he really didn't read everything thuroughly (which makes the whole "you're at L-1, claim" thing make more sense too), and since if he was scum he would know that they are allowed to talk during the day in this game I find it unlikely that he is scum.
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But seriously Sodium. Why did you vote me again? What possible scummy connection do you see with me and Zengar?
I should explicitly point out that Zengar's flip does nothing at all to make KGH look more townie.
+
I think you're scum
=
##Vote KGH
Oh, and more opinions required, not moar questions. Poking holes in other people's posts doesn't matter when YOU DON'T SAY WHO YOU THINK IS SCUM. It's like making bread dough, but not actually baking it.
UK: You could say that a lot of people focused on Seniwac and KGH.
The posts between the Wall of Waffles and post 300 were the ones I was referring to.
I dropped my case on you because it was talking about pretty immaterial stuff
I never dropped my "case" on Edible; it's just that Seniwac and Zengar were a lot scummier.
Lastly, I doubt it's that role you described, as Zengar's role was revealed and he was sent to the SHADOW REALM graveyard.
Edible: Would've it been so hard to say that you were/would be busy on Day 1?
Alice: Fulfilling his Meta.
Pesco: Any other reason for voting me aside from blind agreement with Kilga and how I did something I never knew you did before?
Off Topic:
Yellow Members get access to the Mod Forum, so of course they'd get powers. And she's a goddess. So yeah.
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UK: You could say that a lot of people focused on Seniwac and KGH.
The posts between the Wall of Waffles and post 300 were the ones I was referring to.
I dropped my case on you because it was talking about pretty immaterial stuff
I never dropped my "case" on Edible; it's just that Seniwac and Zengar were a lot scummier.
Lastly, I doubt it's that role you described, as Zengar's role was revealed and he was sent to the SHADOW REALM graveyard.
Good point. Maybe modified for just kills?
As for the rest, fair on Edible, but while a lot of people talked about those two, it wasn't to the exclusion of all else, which by mid to end day yours was
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First, responses.
There's the early call out to roleclaim that I didn't catch earlier. I thought only Edible asked someone to roleclaim before they were actually at L-1 on Day 1, but yeah...
For what it's worth, it was Sodium's "YOU'RE AT L-1" statement that made me confused about the vote count in the first place, which caused me to not vote Zengar immediately.
Also, which of you wiseacres is responsible for my personal text <.<
:toot:
Edible: Would've it been so hard to say that you were/would be busy on Day 1?
I reserve my right to swoop down on mafia scum when they least expect it... like Batman. I had no real reason to defend or elaborate on my case any more than I did, because I saw Town heading in that direction anyway. And you can't really argue with the results.
Let's see.
Here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1918.msg74594#msg74594) is Zengar's D1 summary post. He dislikes Serp.
More Serp hate. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1918.msg74936#msg74936)
Serp misrep. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1918.msg75005#msg75005)
Serp hate. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1918.msg75345#msg75345)
Etc, etc. He spent the entire day on one guy. Increasingly weak logic for doing so, even for newbscum. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say he was being coerced to bus his partner. Serp is shrewd enough to pull something like that off.
Tricky! Also, interesting enough to pursue for now.
##vote Serpentarius
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The "Mod is way too sleepy for his own good" Votecount.
Kitten4U: Roukanken (L-6)
EX Na2O2: Kilgamayan, Pesco, UncertainKitten, Kiro (L-2)
Khorneish Game Hen: EX Na2O2, Serpentarius, Kitten4U (L-3)
Serpentarius: Edible? (L-6)
Not Voting: Khorneish Game Hen, Alice Margatroid
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Argh so bored why is Sodium not lynched yet
Edible raises my hackles for making a case based on what a flipped scum said about an unknown rather than the other way around.
After seeing an explanation, I'm not convinced by the Sodium case. It's true that he tunnelled on KGH, but Kitten4u was a much worse offender. At least Sodium went on to mention people like Edible.
This tells me you don't understand the case at all. Sodium's guilty because of all the cheerleading he did. K-K-K-K4U (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfdvdFwzGK4) only made a couple of offhand comments about Zengar, and while this is displeasing it's not nearly as scummy as what Sodium did.
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At this point were you still okay with a Zengar lynch? If so, why did you favor what is basically a policy lynch over one that involved someone actually saying scummy things? Esspecially since Rou had said that he was willing to replace in the sign up topic?
Yes, Zengar was my third preferred lynch. As for why I preferred policy lynch over him, this is a subject that has been discussed to death here at shrinemaiden mafia, but it basically boils down to the fact that town should lynch to win, not lynch to punish bad play. Furthermore, the case against Zengar was mostly based on his active lurking in the first place, so I saw the difference between him and Chen as more one of degree than of kind.
As for Roukanken being up for replacement, I hadn't notice that, but in any case, sometimes lurkers will deny an offer of replacement and post the minimum necessary to not getmodkilled, whether as bad town or lurkerscum.
He spent the entire day on one guy. Increasingly weak logic for doing so, even for newbscum. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say he was being coerced to bus his partner. Serp is shrewd enough to pull something like that off.
Tricky! Also, interesting enough to pursue for now.
If by "pursue" you mean "park a vote that's unlikely to require further discussion," you're quite right. There's obviously nothing at all I can say to defend myself from this, since it's based entirely on WIFOMing the dead scum's actions. I'm not saying you should completely disregard this point of evidence, since Zengar did tie himself to me pretty well, but unless you actually intend to lynch me, it looks like an excuse to squeeze by without doing any hunting. The fact that you've avoided mentioning anything about the other D2 cases sharpens this impression.
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Sodium's the obvious lynch. I'm just looking for alternatives.
I found it interesting enough to consider, which is more than I could say for other possibilities (other than our salty pal). This should speak volumes about our potential candidates for the day.
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Not as much to respond to as I would have imagined. Double checked umu's #271 and they are more suspicions than hard evidence. Don't think there's as much one can say about Serp's initial vote for KGH. Sodium got onto UK for "filing the roleclaim away for future consideration" per UK's words which Sodium interpreted as "ignoring the roleclaim." Since a bunch of people kinda brushed by it early on, at least Sodium was picking out a particular comment rather than just going for the first person to let it pass which would have been Pesco.
Other than semantics about "half decent and shitty," Sodium's defense is a rather token one. If there's one thing he could do, it'd be to put a stronger effort into explaining the case on KGH.
KGH: You going to vote anyone? If you're going to comment on Sodium and intended to vote him but don't want to take him to L-1, at least say so. Or just make a case in general. Bystander-ism is no good and I'm of a mind to switch to you because you cheerleadeded the Zengar bandwagon on as well. At least Sodium is putting a little more effort into his posts. In other words, stop being a distraction to the rest of Town. If you're Town, play to win, vote, and lynch scum. Do you honestly think if you're lynched and a Townie that we'd actually gain any real information from the people on your wagon with the way you've been acting?
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Catching up and doing a proper reread of D1. Case on Sodium Levothyroxine seems decent so far. Case on Heniwac also seems fine, but a lot of his actions can be explained away as Noob Town(TM), which makes me less likely to believe him. Not sure which way to interpret Roukan's tunnelling on Kitten4u. Dislike the case on Serpentarius quite a bit at the moment.
Will do a proper post with a vote in a couple hours (i.e. after I've gotten some sleep)
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Pesco: Any other reason for voting me aside from blind agreement with Kilga and how I did something I never knew you did before?
My post here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1918.msg74648#msg74648) Focused on you second after Zengar. Umu and Edible had brought stuff that I agreed with. Umu's point there is that you didn't vote where your main suspicion lay and Edible calls you for talking crap. Quite simply, you looked plenty obvscum yesterday already.
My alternative avenue for today is Suwako for the complete lack of content yesterday, ignoring my questions and a possible link to Zengar I mentioned here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1918.msg75513#msg75513). Alice needs to post.
Cut: Alice needs to post.
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Edit by way of Doublevote
7. You may not delete or Edit you previous posts. If you must make a change, please doublevote.
:V
But a master of english is I am?
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This tells me you don't understand the case at all. Sodium's guilty because of all the cheerleading he did. K-K-K-K4U (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfdvdFwzGK4) only made a couple of offhand comments about Zengar, and while this is displeasing it's not nearly as scummy as what Sodium did.
Why is Sodium guilty of anything more than tunneling? The case against him basically revolves around 'He found KGH scummier than Zengar', and he admitted himself that he was tunneling. Why is acting like another scum wagon exists (Sodium) worse than almost entirely ignoring it (K4U)?
That said, Kitten made a similar admission, so maybe I should at least give her some time to actually produce. Also Umu had her written off as Town when he died, so...##Unvote: K4U
Meanwhile:
KGH is a strong second choice. I'll put my vote there with the understanding that Sodium tops my suspicion list, pending the other players' D2 posts.
But doesn't the case on Sodium sort of revolve around KGH being Town? If Sodium was ignoring a scum lynch to press a second scum, that'd be outright suicide, wouldn't it?
Pesco's lack of content is sort of offputting, compared to his usual play. Alice seriously needs to exist.
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I reserve my right to swoop down on mafia scum when they least expect it... like Batman. I had no real reason to defend or elaborate on my case any more than I did, because I saw Town heading in that direction anyway. And you can't really argue with the results.
This feels SO wrong. It's just like "Well, here's my excuse for not doing any of the work, I totally knew town would pick right so why should I do anything?"
Not much else to comment on.
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Yes, Zengar was my third preferred lynch. As for why I preferred policy lynch over him, this is a subject that has been discussed to death here at shrinemaiden mafia, but it basically boils down to the fact that town should lynch to win, not lynch to punish bad play. Furthermore, the case against Zengar was mostly based on his active lurking in the first place, so I saw the difference between him and Chen as more one of degree than of kind.
As for Roukanken being up for replacement, I hadn't notice that, but in any case, sometimes lurkers will deny an offer of replacement and post the minimum necessary to not getmodkilled, whether as bad town or lurkerscum.
The reasoning behind policy lynches in general still doesn't sit well with me, but that might just be an immature outlook on my part. Anyway, we agree that town should lynch to win, but we disagree that policy lynches help with this. While I disagree this doesn't strike me as disingenuous nor scummy.
---
Edible's recent posts are making me want to do a reread on him. I have to go to class soon, so that won't come until much later.
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Assignments aren't over yet, Rou. I'll post when I've got my reading done.
And you make it sound like I normally post a lot of content. What the hell have you been smoking? Share it!
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This tells me you don't understand the case at all. Sodium's guilty because of all the cheerleading he did. K-K-K-K4U (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfdvdFwzGK4) only made a couple of offhand comments about Zengar, and while this is displeasing it's not nearly as scummy as what Sodium did.
Why is Sodium guilty of anything more than tunneling? The case against him basically revolves around 'He found KGH scummier than Zengar', and he admitted himself that he was tunneling. Why is acting like another scum wagon exists (Sodium) worse than almost entirely ignoring it (K4U)?
Because Sodium had better stated reasons to vote for Zengar than Seniwac.
S'pose this is "condescending spoon-feed explanation time".
Sodium has cases on Guy A and Guy B. His case on Guy A is better. He votes for Guy B and stays there for the vast majority of the day. Guy A is lynched and flips scum.
Think about why TownSodium would not vote for Guy A, his better stated case that turned out to be scum. Is this plausible? Almost assuredly not, unless he were a truly terrible player, and Sodium is not this. Now think about why ScumSodium would not vote for Guy A, his better stated case that turned out to be scum. Is this plausible? Most certainly, as he'd want to avoid voting for his buddy if at all possible. It helps that the guy he was going after would be his buddy's best chance of surviving the day, but this is a minor tack-on as he had been gunning for Guy B the entire day and would not have needed to make an opinion-swerve save.
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tl;dr Vote the scum in front of you.
Expecting to get home rather late :(
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Because Sodium had better stated reasons to vote for Zengar than Seniwac.
You're assuming that I knew that, but I didn't for most of the day. I only saw that when I made those two lists, as I said before. I didn't see it before because my judgment was clouded because I was tunneling on Seniwac. Those two lists were late by two hours too, because I had to go somewhere.
Edible: So not doing anything is fine as long as the majority(town) agrees with you?
Also, Zengar actually spent the day on two guys. The first was Seniwac, where he waffled, and the second was Serp where he voted for sub-par/bad reasoning(but at least it wasn't waffles!)
K4U: There are a couple of go-to Day 1 Policy Lynches here, which is why people usually don't bat too much of an eye at them. Pesco is one(more like Policy Dayvig) usually, and Wrathie(was town, got to lylo, selfvoted on lylo) is another.
Kiro: I already explained my Seniwac case, but...
Guy isn't giving his opinions, so he isn't scumhunting
Guy is trying to put up an image of scumhunting by asking a bunch of questions
I did the above as scum last game
Generally being Anti-Town
Weaksauce prod vote at inappropriate times
I did the above as scum last game
The Zengar flip did nothing to make him look better
Waiting for Alice
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I'm feeling things are a little awkward when the majority of the attention is on Sodium while KGH is continuing the exact same behavior on Day 1 and almost nobody has said a thing about his actions in Day 2 (which are none). I thought more people would take notice of that. The events today are looking almost too predictable, heck with some of the votes being half throwaways (like Serp on KGH and Edible on Serp) just because there's no room to put any more votes on Sodium. But KGH hasn't even taken that basic step.
The potential wrinkle with the Sodium case is that if KGH is also Scum, there's less of a concern with Sodium's slow awkwardness in switching from KGH to Zengar as he shouldn't have to go through the trouble of distinguishing either if he were Scum. He'd have just stuck on KGH and drawn less attention to himself by switching. And KGH isn't producing right now. How I see it, Sodium has a better chance of being Scum than KGH because he has actions and opinions to track, but at the same time, Sodium has a better chance of being Town for the exact same reasons. The latter is what is worrying me.
Kilga does not seem to mention the fact that if both Zengar and KGH were Scum, then the case on Sodium is weaker. And Pesco kinda pushes the early momentum on Sodium for a meta type reason. Feeling a little iffy on those 2 now. UK's analysis highlights that awkward switch at the end more and thus looks like more well thought out reasoning. Sodium for his defense, is pretty much giving it an as-is reply which technically does seem to be the only way he could defend it if he were Town or Scum. So there's nothing more to really talk about there. Let's all talk about KGH a little more and have KGH tell us who he thinks is Scum, with a vote as soon as possible. Heck, I'll vacate my spot on Sodium's wagon just for him if he wants to go there!
##Unvote Sodium
##Vote KGH
Rou: You waiting for someone in particular or do you have a case in mind now that you've dropped K4U for now?
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Rou: You waiting for someone in particular or do you have a case in mind now that you've dropped K4U for now?
Alice's silence is bugging me more than anything. All we have from him so far is 'I'll reread and post in a couple of hours' (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1918.msg78029#msg78029)...which he doesn't. And he's been online since. Add to this the concerns people had with Suwako giving Zengar a free pass and it's not looking very good for him.
Actually, no point just complaining about it.
##Vote: Alice LurkMargatroid[/s]
START EXISTING.
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Kilga does not seem to mention the fact that if both Zengar and KGH were Scum, then the case on Sodium is weaker.
So? This is a dumb line of thought to follow for not believing my argument, because it works the opposite way too. If Sodium flips scum, would you still think Seniwac is?
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Wait wait wait you feel iffy on me for not mentioning something that would be detrimental to my case?
Why on Earth would I bring up something like that?
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The "Rose Tribe" Votecount.
Kitten4U: Roukanken (L-7)
EX Na2O2: Kilgamayan, Pesco, UncertainKitten, Kiro (L-3)
Khorneish Game Hen: EX Na2O2, Serpentarius, Kitten4U, Kiro (L-2)
Serpentarius: Edible? (L-6)
Alice Margatroid: Roukanken (L-6)
Not Voting: Khorneish Game Hen, Alice Margatroid
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I'm not seeing Heniwac's RVS claim of VT as scummy as he either seems to be PLAYING the Noob, or IS the Noob. Considering he also asked a very obvious question to my post wherein I called Zengar an idiot for claiming scum, as well as some meta reasons, I'm willing to peg this action as NoobTown(TM) behaviour and not NoobScum(TM) behaviour at this point in time. Basically I second Suwako J. Moriya's opinion in #110.
@Pesco: sadly, Chen is not my alt.
Why'd Zengar unvote Kilga in #98 without revoting someone else? This is mildly notable.
Kiro #184 is slightly worrying for a loaded question.
Re: Sodium Levotriiodiothyronine: in #165 you claim that Zengar is at "pretty much L-1" when he's at L-3. With ~48 hours left in the day. What/why?
Why did Heniwac prod Edible with <12 hours left in the day? Granted I personally have done prod votes on D1 in the past as Town so I don't consider it automatically scummy, but it's notable that it was a transfer of a vote from Zengar to Edible.
In #246, Zengar waits for an opinion from Chen. Not notable, except...I'm getting scum vibes from Roukanken at odd times today. First off, I'm not seeing the Kitten4u case at all, especially not when compared to the Sodium 3,5-diiodo-L-Tyrosine wagon. Followed by a prod on me, followed by an unvote and some waffling, followed by a prod vote on me. And no, I haven't been online since: that post was made right before going to sleep, and I woke up about 4 hours ago and then had an optometrist appointment. FWIW, I'd consider 12 hours to be "a couple", but whatever.
Honestly, at this point I'm heavily leaning more towards the Sodium 3,5,3'-triiodothyronamine wagon. Cheerleading the Zengar lynch D1 is awful, none of his posts since have done anything to dissuade me of his scumminess, in fact they have a notable Scum In Front Of Me feel. Edible is my second choice right now for not really providing useful content the entire game. I still think Heniwac is Town at this point in time.
##Vote: Sodium Dextrothyroxine
This post brought to you by the letter "S". Followed closely by the letters "ynthroid".
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I'm still not understanding why the supposed cheerleading makes Sodium scum by default. I still attest that Kitten's ignoring the wagon is worse than agreeing with it, so why does Sodium get all the attention?
I sort of expected Town!Alice to do something beyond jump on a big bandwagon with a few side-notes for good measure. Seriously, in terms of typical Margatroid play, I'm used to seeing you post stuff a lot more useful than this when it comes time to deliver. You offer nothing new to the Sodium case besides bringing up the old 'pretty much at L-1' point which I'm sure has been covered already. Vote stays.
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...I...don't know how to make it any clearer than I already have.
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I've already explained that I think asking a scum to claim so early would be a bad tactic for a buddy, especially given Zengar's response when he actually DID claim. Add his lack of knowledge of daytalk ('I forgot that' instead of 'that's true') which seems like far too minute a detail for Sodium to throw in deliberately, and I'm very much unconvinced that this is anything more than tunneling.
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But doesn't the case on Sodium sort of revolve around KGH being Town? If Sodium was ignoring a scum lynch to press a second scum, that'd be outright suicide, wouldn't it?
When Sodium voted against KGH, there had been some complaining about Zengar, but no votes. KGH was looking like a very likely lynch, and so he'd have been extremely busable. When Zengar popped up as the popular alternative, scum-Sodium would have to choose between saying that he thought Zengar was town, or else he'd need to bus his other buddy. If this is the case, then what gave him away was his unnatural way of trying to distance himself from both of them.
Wait wait wait you feel iffy on me for not mentioning something that would be detrimental to my case?
Why on Earth would I bring up something like that?
Hopefully because you want the town to make the best lynch available to it, as opposed to just wanting the town to agree with you for town cred. :V
Why'd Zengar unvote Kilga in #98 without revoting someone else? This is mildly notable.
Note that the vote on Kilgamayan was from RVS.
I've already explained that I think asking a scum to claim so early would be a bad tactic for a buddy, especially given Zengar's response when he actually DID claim. Add his lack of knowledge of daytalk ('I forgot that' instead of 'that's true') which seems like far too minute a detail for Sodium to throw in deliberately, and I'm very much unconvinced that this is anything more than tunneling.
The thing is, those are both really really easy to fake. Clearing someone based on bad play is never a good idea.
The point that bumped Sodium above KGH on my list of suspicions was his 362 where he drops a vote on KGH without any attempt to look at the case in the context of Zengar's flip. He could've figured that he was going to get lynched anyway, so he might as well distance himself from KGH (or attach himself, I suppose - votes are funny that way), but the important thing is that he doens't look like he really wants to find scum.
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I'm still not understanding why the supposed cheerleading makes Sodium scum by default. I still attest that Kitten's ignoring the wagon is worse than agreeing with it, so why does Sodium get all the attention?
I'm not sure how ignoring the wagon and tunnelling on a wagon is somehow better than agreeing with it yet not adding support to it by means of a VOTE. The first can at least be seen as Town behaviour: a NoobTown(TM) tunnelling on someone. The second is much more horrible because it lets someone claim that "oh, no, I *DID* support $FellowScum's lynch, see! see!!!" while at the same time not bussing them until it finally became inevitable.
Anyway, I suppose this is beyond typical play because I have a lot of theories, but at the moment most of them depend on finding out Sodium Bromate's alignment. That and tbqh I kind of think that he's obvscum.
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The thing is, those are both really really easy to fake. Clearing someone based on bad play is never a good idea.
*puts on Pesco ears*
I'm having trouble believing Sodium would be able to pull something like that off, usa~.
The point that bumped Sodium above KGH on my list of suspicions was his 362 where he drops a vote on KGH without any attempt to look at the case in the context of Zengar's flip.
Alright, first off, I should explicitly point out that Zengar's flip does nothing at all to make KGH look more townie.
???
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The point that bumped Sodium above KGH on my list of suspicions was his 362 where he drops a vote on KGH without any attempt to look at the case in the context of Zengar's flip.
Alright, first off, I should explicitly point out that Zengar's flip does nothing at all to make KGH look more townie.
???
I explained why that was the case. Sodium didn't even consider Zengar's flip one way or the other.
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Alice: You have a lot of fun remixing my name, don't you? >_>
And his Edible vote was stupid because his suspicion list a post previous to his vote pretty much said that Kilga was the scummiest to him. He instead choose a prod vote instead of voting the guy who he thought was scummy. And he had to be prodded to even make a vote. And that's what I did in Rouhou Remix as scum.
I said that I was going to vote him, but I didn't want to bring him to L-1 with that much time left. Now, this is assuming he was at L-2, which I thought he was. I read the vote count wrong, so I thought Zengar was at L-2, and KGH was at L-3, but it was the other way around.
And lastly, I was simply looking at both Seniwac and Zengar at the same time. Would it have been better for me to not comment on the Zengar wagon, especially when he was acting the way he was?
Serp: Me saying that "I still think Seniwac is scum" implies that nothing has changed for Seniwac's situation, meaning the flip had no effect either way.
So Seniwac still hasn't scumhunted, owing to the fact he still hasn't posted since his second question post. Hell, he didn't even comment on my answer to his question.
And Alice's replacement catchup post has nothing new! But it's a replacement catchup post.
And Edible needs to either actually become The Batman, or start contributing on a semi-regular basis.
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Sodium's attacks against me are incredibly and hilarious suited to him right now. And that's not a joke. Looking awfully suspicious.
So why didn't you switch votes to Zengar earlier, especially when my wagon was dying down? If you found him very suspicious, why didn't you pursue the easier lynch?
Also I find it amusing that a portion of your case rests on "I DID IT WHEN I WAS SCUM." Just because you did it once and you were scum doesn't mean I am scum when I do it.
##VOTE EXNA2O2
Roleclaim, etc.
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And Edible needs to either actually become The BatmanGuess what's showing up in the next update of the crack fic?
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And that's L-1. I would hope no one hammers before stuff happens?
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And Edible needs to either actually become The BatmanGuess what's showing up in the next update of the crack fic?
umu?
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asdf
umu?
The person or the m- *shot*
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Sodium's attacks against me are incredibly and hilarious suited to him right now. And that's not a joke. Looking awfully suspicious.
Wat? I'm suspicious for attacking you? I'm suspicious for doing stuff that is in character? Holy crap, what sort of attack is that?
So why didn't you switch votes to Zengar earlier, especially when my wagon was dying down? If you found him very suspicious, why didn't you pursue the easier lynch?
Wat? I'm supposed to pursue the easier lynch? I'm supposed to pursue the lynch on who I think is scum, which was you at that point, although my judgment on whether you or Zengar were scummier at that time had been clouded by some tunnel bias. You seem to be misguided on WHAT TOWN IS SUPPOSED TO FUCKING DO, WHICH IS SCUMHUNT, NOT GO FOR EASY LYNCHES.
Also I find it amusing that a portion of your case rests on "I DID IT WHEN I WAS SCUM." Just because you did it once and you were scum doesn't mean I am scum when I do it.
Cool Story Bro. The two points that are backed by that float by themselves; you're asking a bunch of questions that go nowhere which IS NOT SCUMHUNTING, and weaksauce prod vote was BAD. You had said that Kilga was scummier to you, but then you vote Edible as a prod when there's 12 hours left in the day.
Nice garbage post, my good buddy.
L-1 Claim:
I am Byakuren Hiziri, Sealed Great Magician, Town Doctor. I only have 3 charges though. If you're wondering who I protected last night, it was Serp, but that seems to have missed the mark.
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L-1 Claim:
I am Byakuren Hiziri, Sealed Great Magician, Town Doctor. I only have 3 charges though. If you're wondering who I protected last night, it was Serp, but that seems to have missed the mark.
Why does this sound familiar?
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L-1 Claim:
I am Byakuren Hiziri, Sealed Great Magician, Town Doctor. I only have 3 charges though. If you're wondering who I protected last night, it was Serp, but that seems to have missed the mark.
Mind explaining why you thought Serp was going to be hit?
Waiting for a doc CC, if there is one.
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memes
ahahahaha
point 1: if "in-character" you mean going "YEEEP THAT'S A MISTAKE OR META IT'S MY PLAYSTYLE FOR IGNORING RULES" and not giving a crap about other points being brougt up/finding new cases it's totally in character.
point 2: i would assume that since you found Zengar scummy too and my bandwagon was dying off, you would attempt to get the other scummy person rather than wasting a vote
so yeah sodium
why did you protect serp again?
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I dunno. You tell me. I'm telling the truth though, so any familiarities are probably coincidences, or the mod screwing around with us.
Roukan:
1. Gut >_>
2. Serp is generally attacked at Night from my experience
3. I thought he was town(can't go around protecting scum)
4. WIFOM stuff (ie: I thought Kiro would be someone scum would think was protected, Seniwac wouldn't be attacked even if he was town, etc.)
Seniwac: Do you read what you type? You said that I was attacking you in a way "suited for me"(in character), I ask what the hell are you're talking about, and then you respond with...
point 1: if "in-character" you mean going "YEEEP THAT'S A MISTAKE OR META IT'S MY PLAYSTYLE FOR IGNORING RULES" and not giving a crap about other points being brougt up/finding new cases it's totally in character.
What do you mean exactly? I don't get it. Also, what other points? And I'm pursuing a case, so why should I immediately drop that case, and look for new cases?
So I heard you put a throw away vote on Edible on Day 1, instead of the person you thought was scummier(Kilga). Nice vote wasting.
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I dunno. You tell me. I'm telling the truth though, so any familiarities are probably coincidences, or the mod screwing around with us.
A VERY ballsy Alice claim from a couple games ago that fooled us completely.
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I'm going to give everyone a chance to CC before doing anything with Sodium.
Did my reread on Edible. It seems like the only really scummy thing he did D1 was not post much, but if he really was busy I think that's excusable. I don't like that he diliberately didn't say anything because it looked like his choice lynch was going to go through, but that's the only bad feeling I get from him right now. Still reading him as nuetral.
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A VERY ballsy Alice claim from a couple games ago that fooled us completely.
He was there. If you'll recall, Sodium WAS the doc that time. We lynched him instead of Alice. :V
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A VERY ballsy Alice claim from a couple games ago that fooled us completely.
He was there. If you'll recall, Sodium WAS the doc that time. We lynched him instead of Alice. :V
Oh yeah. Makes it more likely he might try it as scum IMO.
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...Oh right, that game. I brain bleached it because it made me very sad. ;_; I dunno how I messed up that badly in Worker's Union.
But I swear that's what it said on my role PM. It's either a coincidence or Zakeri is screwing with us.
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This denial and lack of attention is getting old. It's easy to say "oh I forgot" or "Oh, I didn't notice".
I don't like it.
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What? I said what my Role PM said(obviously not word by word, but you know what I mean). Did you want me to lie about it so it isn't similar to a previous claim in a previous game?
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Not sure I believe this claim. I would think DocSodium would have tried much harder to defend himself than he has today.
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I don't think anyone believes it. I'm just waiting for everyone to say their piece - otherwise, I'm prepared to hammer at any time.
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I'd like at least everyone to post before a hammer occurs, in case of a doc counterclaim. Otherwise, I'm starting to grow much more worried about Edible by the moment. An analysis of his posts shows that he is playing the almost stereotypical active lurker, and as much as I like my exploits reminisced about, it's quite telling that he had only four serious posts D1, and the only one of his posts that has content in it is his Serp vote post, which, while notable...is the only one of his posts D2 that's game-related. So I'm curious what you thought of Sodium 3-iodo-L-Tyrosine before his roleclaim (which, I will grant, is suspicious as heck, but I'd like to wait around for a possible CC first), of Heniwac, etc.
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I mentioned here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1918.msg77980#msg77980) what I thought of Sodium well before his claim (don't know how I can make my feelings any more clear than "he's the obvious lynch"). I haven't mentioned Tasty Chicken Guy because, as with Day 1, I think he's town and thus not worth wasting time on.
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The "Someone's apparently about the spill the salt" Votecount.
Kitten4U: Roukanken (L-6)
EX Na2O2: Kilgamayan, Pesco, UncertainKitten, Kiro, Alice Margatroid, Khorneish Game Hen (L-2)
Khorneish Game Hen: EX Na2O2, Serpentarius, Kitten4U, Kiro, Pesco (L-1)
Serpentarius: Edible? (L-5)
Alice Margatroid: Roukanken (L-5)
Not Voting: No one
Sodium is at L-1
There is still around 31 hours in the day, just incase anyone wanted to know.
Edit: Seniwac is now at L-1 due to voting changes below.
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Quick reply here. Sodium's claim is blarghargh. Seniwac's vote looks pretty suspect as a self preservation move. Both tied at L-2, he puts L-1 and we have the circus in town again.
##Unvote for now. I'll get some Sodium anal up in a moment.
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Individual anal
secks with Seniwac and Sodium
==========
First off; Seniwac's posts for day 2 are a load of defensive crap. 2 posts of nothing that do cheer on Sodium's wagon. I believe he could have done better than just short posts (more confrontation rather than sniping I mean) and declared his intention to vote. Contrast to how Serp played it here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1918.msg77746#msg77746). Even Edible's post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1918.msg77949#msg77949), although not voting Sodium, still shows that he's doing useful stuff. Kiro's comment (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1918.msg78017#msg78017) on this regard is also noted.
Sodium's attacks against me are incredibly and hilarious suited to him right now. And that's not a joke. Looking awfully suspicious.
So why didn't you switch votes to Zengar earlier, especially when my wagon was dying down? If you found him very suspicious, why didn't you pursue the easier lynch?
Also I find it amusing that a portion of your case rests on "I DID IT WHEN I WAS SCUM." Just because you did it once and you were scum doesn't mean I am scum when I do it.
##VOTE EXNA2O2
Roleclaim, etc.
Up to this vote post, Sodium had been making decent effort to post a bit more than obvscum waffle. Seniwac's posting the entire day gives off the feel of paranoid scum that's worrying about his borrowed time. Like I said above, L-1 puts in a big swing.
==========
The thing is, those are both really really easy to fake. Clearing someone based on bad play is never a good idea.
*puts on Pesco ears*
I'm having trouble believing Sodium would be able to pull something like that off, usa~.
The point that bumped Sodium above KGH on my list of suspicions was his 362 where he drops a vote on KGH without any attempt to look at the case in the context of Zengar's flip.
Alright, first off, I should explicitly point out that Zengar's flip does nothing at all to make KGH look more townie.
???
When I first read this, I was a little annoyed at Rou resorting to PescoLogicTM. That aside, daytalk coaching still makes it a liklihood. Tbh, I do kinda feel Sodium isn't that good to pull it off. It's not exactly a strong point for consideration, but it has minor influence.
The main point of this post was to look over Sodium's posts to check out the validity of his protection claim. There's nothing contrary to his choice from what I can see, but due to how open ended it is, this is no confirmation either. We've only got his word for it pending a counterclaim.
==========
Facts alone from this anal, Sodium looks slightly better because of consistency (his voting and night action). Seniwac has been playing a purely reactionary game. I would conclude from this, one of them is definitely scum. BUT, Sodium flipping scum does not make Seniwac auto town. Seniwac has a possibility of being Survivor. I would rule out SK at this stage because I don't think he would hold back on making kills. There's also that we didn't ask for clarification whether killing roles are obliged to kill or not.
I'm swinging ##Vote Seniwac. Waiting Cutting Kiro's post :P
@Mod: Confirm killing factions may or may not choose to forgo a kill?
Confirmed. They don't have to kill if they choose not to, and forgetting to send in one leads to a no kill.
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Kilga: My train of thought right now is:
If KGH flips Scum, Sodium is looking more like a Townie.
If KGH flips Townie, Sodium is looking more like Scum.
If Sodium flips either Town or Scum, I still have no clue what KGH would be and he's not doing a damn thing in proving any towniness.
If we're wrong about Sodium, we would have lost someone who has been trying to contribute his opinions since the beginning of the game. Since KGH wasn't doing crap and nobody bothered to mention it for awhile, he's much more of an enigma than Sodium and far less useful. Hell, call it more of a liability with the lack of scumhunting or even a case. His first post of Day 2 in #367 doesn't say shit about anything, whether it is saying who is likely scum or even if he intended to vote Sodium except that it'd take him to L-1. And suddenly in #407, he gets his vote in on Sodium to L-1; not sure what he was prompted by. But his reasoning is hardly involved and Sodium doesn't do a bad job in his reply to KGH in #412 and manages to reiterate his case on KGH at the same time. Would like to see KGH's response to #412.
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I'm leaning more on believing the doc claim. The way he's wording it seems to have a semblance of truth. Hell, if he were Scum and wanted to make it more believable, he probably could have said he protected me last night and there probably would be less of a fuss on whether it's believable or not since he's not mentioning that he has any particular suspicions about me. The fact that he's kinda unsure about why he picked Serp actually makes it more believable in a weird way as he considered WIFOM games and he believes Serp is Town.
All of the above is some roundabout logic and subject to heavy interpretation. But heck, if no one counterclaims, I can believe it as all of Sodium's actions can be explained from a tunneling Townie perspective. And in such a case, I'd rather see a KGH lynch who claims Vanilla Townie and only has suspicions on Sodium today along with an anti-Townie lack of contribution. I don't think any other case today would be more useful than either of these 2.
Pesco: Of course you're going to cut me, I haven't posted since the morning so I need to get this in before the following morning.
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Okay, looking at the vote count I'm very confused. Do we need 6 or 7 votes to lynch? Because if it's 6, how can people be at L-7?
The main reason I'm asking this is that I'm uncertain as to whether KGH is at L-2 or L-1 following Pesco's switch. If it's the latter, he'd better claim now.
Sorry, I was the confused one. The L-? on Seniwac and Sodium were correct, but I forgot to mentally update the ones labeled as sevens and sixes. Fixed them in the previous votecount, but too lazy to fix them in the rest.
I'm just seeing KGH as the latest incarnation of the clueless newb. The new Wrathie/Baity/NF/other new guy who got himself lynched fast, basically. That said, I am willing to admit that he is sort of useless in terms of actual content, and that I'm willing to hammer if necessary (since clueless newb and clueless scum newb aren't that easy to tell apart).
Not sure I believe this claim. I would think DocSodium would have tried much harder to defend himself than he has today.
That's a pretty general accusation. You're trying to say that, if he wasn't a Doc, he'd be more willing to let himself die?
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Not sure I believe this claim. I would think DocSodium would have tried much harder to defend himself than he has today.
That's a pretty general accusation. You're trying to say that, if he wasn't a Doc, he'd be more willing to let himself die?
This is called a strawman.
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I can't say I'd be unhappy with a KGH lynch, but I can't say I like some of the justifications I'm seeing. Kiro in particular seems to be a just a few steps away from "Policy lynch lol"...I agree a lot of information will be...revealed pending KGH's flip. But I can't shake the feeling Sodium is not what he says he is...it might be tunneling and confirmation bias, but I just don't think Sodium is a doctor. Or if he is, he's a scum doc.
Either way, I'm about to head out. I'll be back before deadline to further consider KGH and Sodium respectively...
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I believe the claim.
The claim itself and his comments after sound genuine, and while I don't think the case on him is bad I still have a hard time seeing him as scum. I don't think he faked that "I didn't know scum could daytalk" thing because he asked about something that the mod had stated in the sign up topic, and then he went on to misread that Zengar was at L-2 and not L-3. The last of which actually made him look worse, so I don't think he faked it.
I support a KGH lynch, but not a Sodium lynch right now.
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Kilga: My train of thought right now is:
If KGH flips Scum, Sodium is looking more like a Townie.
If KGH flips Townie, Sodium is looking more like Scum.
If Sodium flips either Town or Scum, I still have no clue what KGH would be and he's not doing a damn thing in proving any towniness.
If Sodium flips scum KGH is almost assuredly town.
If Sodium flips town then there's a fair chance KGH is scum. A very fair chance given KGH's play.
Not sure I believe this claim. I would think DocSodium would have tried much harder to defend himself than he has today.
That's a pretty general accusation. You're trying to say that, if he wasn't a Doc, he'd be more willing to let himself die?
I believe that, were he scum staring in the face of the case and vote pile against him, he would be more likely to half-ass a defense, whereas a town doctor would recognize their value and fight tooth and nail to avoid a lynch.
The scum precedent for defense effort has been set fairly low for this game.
Ultimately I won't object to a KGH lynch because he's been beyond useless and a good case in its own right exists against him, but I'd much rather work off the flip because most of KGH's indiscretions could be chalked up to noobplay.
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UK: If you say you're not unhappy about a possible KGH lynch, but don't like the justifications you're seeing, then what reasoning has been acceptable so far from the other people on his wagon? Also, it is not a policy lynch to lynch someone who has not taken the effort to form his own opinions or cases or to not throw down meaningful votes and coast by on both Days. That is scummy in its own right.
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So I looked at the Day 1 wagons again with the Doc claim in consideration as well.
KGH prods Edible in #278 while his own wagon is at L-4 with Zengar at L-3. By the time he posts next in #315, the gap is just tighter at L-3 and L-2 respectively. If KGH were Scum, he could have sent Zengar to L-1 and get some Town cred but didn't. In his #275, he was a little uncommittal about Zengar until Zengar posts, but 3 minutes after he does, Sodium puts Zengar at L-1, obviously being cut with his long post. In other words, KGH's actions are consistent of a Townie waiting for a response before putting a meaningful vote down. It may be the only thing he's done that actually follows a Townie playbook.
While with Sodium, he says he'd stay on KGH at #288 after Kilga switched from Zengar to KGH putting KGH ahead L-3 to Zengar's L-4. Would fit as Scum if KGH is a Townie, but could reasonably fit as tunneling Townie. When Sodium comes back, he takes Zengar to L-1 including mentioning "Zengar's lousy post #250" which he apparently did not consider as much at the time of his #288. So the selective choice of Zengar over KGH at the end still stands out.
I guess if I want to factor in traditional play with how a game starts, KGH would probably not intentionally draw attention to himself with a Vanilla roleclaim at the start AND just keep his play at a low level if he were Scum. Heck, somebody would be bound to check up on him power role wise if he stayed alive for awhile. I guess he'd also have made a stronger effort to pursue a different case if he realized Scumbuddy Zengar was also on the chopping block next to him.
Sodium on the other hand is reasonably aggressive and an active poster in this game which may be a little surprising if he were the Town Doc. Furthermore, he made a bunch of questionable comments, bordering on being overeager. And Scum Sodium would benefit more from a switch to Zengar than Town Doc Sodium when he had been on KGH all day and the Zengar wagon was ahead anyways and likely to have been secured without his help.
I think Serp is the only one who hasn't had the chance to counterclaim. While I would prefer if someone were hiding a protective role to counterclaim and give us a greater confirmation in determining if Sodium's claim is fake, I can understand why someone might not be willing to reveal their role when the mood seems to be we'd lynch Sodium anyways. I'm convincing myself a little more that at least some of KGH's actions have some evidence of a Townie trend while Sodium's still stands out awkwardly. And I shouldn't be conclusively saying that Sodium's explanation of voting Serp is strong enough to reverse all of the evidence that has been charged against him. So back I go.
##Unvote KGH
##Vote Sodium
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Bleh, this roleclaim comes packaged with way too much WIFOM. There's the limited charges (to explain why another claimed power role doesn't end up protected later in the game), the possibility that the doc would hold his claim since Sodium looks to be up for the lynch anyway (as Kiro suggests), and furthermore, there's a janitor out there to add to the confusion. Is it common for scum to get informed with the information they keep from the town by using their janitor? It's quite possible that umu was the doc, scum learned this when they killed him, and scum could therefore know that they can claim doc without any risk of a counterclaim.
KGH is still policy lynch material, but I think people are putting too much stock in Sodium's roleclaim. The lack of information provided by KGH's actions runs both ways, too - I don't think we'd get much information from his flip, whatever it is. I still favor a Sodium lynch over a KGH one, and I'm ready to hammer Sodium at any time.
##Unvote: Khorneish Game Hen
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The "like an ocean wave" Votecount.
Kitten4U: Roukanken (L-6)
EX Na2O2: Kilgamayan, Pesco, UncertainKitten, Kiro, Alice Margatroid, Khorneish Game Hen, Kiro (L-1)
Khorneish Game Hen: EX Na2O2, Serpentarius, Kitten4U, Kiro, Pesco (L-3)
Serpentarius: Edible? (L-5)
Alice Margatroid: Roukanken (L-5)
Not Voting: No one
Sodium is at L-1
There is still around 31 hours in the day, just incase anyone wanted to know.
Edit: Seniwac is now at L-1 due to voting changes below.
Nevermind, It's Sodium again
Also, there's 20 hours left.
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I'm hoping we can get a word in from Edible and Rou before anyone does hammer.
Simple numbers based on my post from earlier:
Sodium is likely to be scum or doc, 50/50
Seniwac is likely to be scum or VT or survivor/SK, 33/33/33
Overall Seniwac is less likely to be town. That keeps my vote.
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I believe that, were he scum staring in the face of the case and vote pile against him, he would be more likely to half-ass a defense, whereas a town doctor would recognize their value and fight tooth and nail to avoid a lynch.
Your logic is that scum won't want to defend themselves as much as a Doc would? EVERYONE should want to defend themselves equally because their death will harm their faction whatever they are (excusing Jesters but that's an exceedingly rare case). Saying that certain roles want to live more than others is somewhat paradoxical.
The scum precedent for defense effort has been set fairly low for this game.
Assuming that other scum will play like Zengar = bad.
I'm hoping we can get a word in from Edible and Rou before anyone does hammer.
Simple numbers based on my post from earlier:
Sodium is likely to be scum or doc, 50/50
Seniwac is likely to be scum or VT or survivor/SK, 33/33/33
Overall Seniwac is less likely to be town. That keeps my vote.
You honestly believe that the odds of him being scum/VT/third-party are equal? What is this, Bayesian probability? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayesian_probability)
Personally I get the feeling we're misshooting with both of these lynches, especially Sodium. KGH I will hammer if no other case arises, because he really isn't helping in the slightest, but the lack of a Doc CC makes me relatively certain that Sodium's just getting called out for tunneling.
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While with Sodium, he says he'd stay on KGH at #288 after Kilga switched from Zengar to KGH putting KGH ahead L-3 to Zengar's L-4. Would fit as Scum if KGH is a Townie, but could reasonably fit as tunneling Townie. When Sodium comes back, he takes Zengar to L-1 including mentioning "Zengar's lousy post #250" which he apparently did not consider as much at the time of his #288. So the selective choice of Zengar over KGH at the end still stands out.
Zengar didn't make Post#250. Post#317 by me meant Post#300, but I put 250 for some reason.
inb4ANOTHERFUCKINGMISTAKE? Yeah, I'm going take a long break after this game, seeing as I can't seem to properly read or write posts.
Sodium on the other hand is reasonably aggressive and an active poster in this game which may be a little surprising if he were the Town Doc.
I'm almost always "reasonably aggressive and an active poster in the game". Being a doc means you're not supposed to be an active poster?
Furthermore, he made a bunch of questionable comments, bordering on being overeager. And Scum Sodium would benefit more from a switch to Zengar than Town Doc Sodium when he had been on KGH all day and the Zengar wagon was ahead anyways and likely to have been secured without his help.
How would ScumMe benefit from a switch to Zengar? If anything, it was a stupid move for me in every single possible role(minus Jester).
Sodium's explanation of voting Serp
I'm pretty sure you mean protect, not vote.
Waiting for Edible, Alice and Seniwac.
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I believe that, were he scum staring in the face of the case and vote pile against him, he would be more likely to half-ass a defense, whereas a town doctor would recognize their value and fight tooth and nail to avoid a lynch.
Your logic is that scum won't want to defend themselves as much as a Doc would? EVERYONE should want to defend themselves equally because their death will harm their faction whatever they are (excusing Jesters but that's an exceedingly rare case). Saying that certain roles want to live more than others is somewhat paradoxical.
Think what you will - the empirical data I've gathered via my personal experience says scum are more likely to give up when hammered with a good case than town.
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I would have to say your empirical evidence lacks Alice samples.
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Think what you will - the empirical data I've gathered via my personal experience says scum are more likely to give up when hammered with a good case than town.
And you think Sodium has given up? He's still responding to points now, isn't he?
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I would have to say your empirical evidence lacks Alice samples.
That's because Alice is an outlier that knows how to play scum properly (which is a true art form that doesn't get nearly enough credit). Even then, he's not above stupid mistakes under pressure, but that's another discussion for another time.
I'm not saying scum will give up EVERY TIME, but the rate at which scum give up when smashed in the face with a good case and a bunch of votes is far higher than the rate of town giving up in the same situation.
And you think Sodium has given up? He's still responding to points now, isn't he?
He half-assed his defense of the original case and has since only been picking at what is easily picked at. His defense of the main charge of cheerleading amounted to "oops?" which does him no favors whatsoever. If Mafia allowed mulligans like that town would never win.
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I'm almost always "reasonably aggressive and an active poster in the game". Being a doc means you're not supposed to be an active poster?
The main point is not the "active" part, it's the "aggressive" part. Nothing is wrong with either, but you made questionable comments presumably because you were aggressive and it has hurt you.
How would ScumMe benefit from a switch to Zengar? If anything, it was a stupid move for me in every single possible role(minus Jester).
Well, Scum you knowing Zengar is also Scum just gets your name on the wagon. Admittedly, if it's a dumb move for any role you could have had, how would this make you more Townie than Scum rather than just being a null tell? The benefit arguably is Townie cred and if anything, I think Scum feel more inclined to earn it than actual Townies do because Scum knowingly plan mislynches and possibly feel more pressure to earn that credit. That's how I imagine it anyways.
Out to lunch.
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He half-assed his defense of the original case and has since only been picking at what is easily picked at. His defense of the main charge of cheerleading amounted to "oops?" which does him no favors whatsoever. If Mafia allowed mulligans like that town would never win.
I'm not sure how he could defend himself in any way other than 'I admit I was tunneling on KGH, I apologise', so I'm not sure what you would define as half-assed here.
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TownDocSodium would have seen my case and said "No, Kilga, you're wrong. I had better stated reasons to vote for Seniwac, and this, this and this are why." He would have done this because, since he was town, it would have actually been what he thought.
Sodium's reaction to my case was to initially ignore that part entirely and then later claim that he didn't know he had better stated reasons to vote for Zengar. This is notably not the approach described above.
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He half-assed his defense of the original case and has since only been picking at what is easily picked at.
What part of this doesn't describe KGH? The sentence after this quote can also easily describe KGH if you just change some words.
His defense of the main charge of not scumhunting amounted to "Ignore and ask more questions" which does him no favors whatsoever.
And I did say why I voted Seniwac. It was because of my TUNNEL BIAS. It was because of TUNNEL BIAS that I thought I had better reasons to vote Seniwac. It was this that made me think that I had better stated reasons for voting Seniwac compared to Zengar.
Kiro:
But it doesn't have anything to do with me being a doctor. It has hurt me, but it shouldn't matter more just because I'm a doc.
I didn't say it was a towntell at all. It's a nulltell.
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Let's try this.
I am Tenshi Hinanai, and through the might of the Hisou no Ken, I will reveal the divine truth.
##Hisou no Ken: EX Na2O2
Sodium, your next post must consist of the following statement:
"My role in this game is a Town-aligned Doctor."
I will know if you're lying. Type it word for word, without quotes, and absolutely nothing else. If you fail to do so or attempt to avoid doing so by changing the form of the statement, I will assume you are scum and hammer you.
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UK: If you say you're not unhappy about a possible KGH lynch, but don't like the justifications you're seeing, then what reasoning has been acceptable so far from the other people on his wagon? Also, it is not a policy lynch to lynch someone who has not taken the effort to form his own opinions or cases or to not throw down meaningful votes and coast by on both Days. That is scummy in its own right.
I think it was you who seemed to be skirting around the "I don't care if he is town or scum, lynch him". This left me uneasy. If he's town, I think you will gain more scrutiny.
/me reads the rest of the post.
Ok, not quite as bad anymore...scratch scrutiny comment.
Personally I get the feeling we're misshooting with both of these lynches, especially Sodium. KGH I will hammer if no other case arises, because he really isn't helping in the slightest, but the lack of a Doc CC makes me relatively certain that Sodium's just getting called out for tunneling.
So it is required there be a doctor in every set up? And also the fact umu could have been that doctor has also been brought up. I do believe you gain scrutiny if Sodium flips scum.
Super xray vision scrutiny...
And...Edible has an awesome role I will be stealing in a future game.
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##Unvote: Alice
Vote: Edible
Obvious fake role is obvious.
1. No warning of role madness.
2. Supposed role is massively imba - determine whether the next post by player X is true? Couldn't you simply ask a person to make the statement 'I am pro-Town' and then, if they're lying, simply lynch them? And in a game with a Doctor, it's pretty much a walking gamebreaker.
3. It's also pretty much a made-up role, so the odds of a CC are next to nil.
Cut by UK immediately assuming that the role is genuine. >_>
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##Unvote: Alice
Vote: Edible
Obvious fake role is obvious.
1. No warning of role madness.
2. Supposed role is massively imba - determine whether the next post by player X is true? Couldn't you simply ask a person to make the statement 'I am pro-Town' and then, if they're lying, simply lynch them? And in a game with a Doctor, it's pretty much a walking gamebreaker.
3. It's also pretty much a made-up role, so the odds of a CC are next to nil.
Cut by UK immediately assuming that the role is genuine. >_>
No, actually, I didn't want to give sodium an out, and actually edited my post before posting it.
I was going to say that (even if he doesn't actually have that role), but decided against.
But, ya kinda blew that. So yeeeeeeeeah.
Thanks Rou. I'd probably vote you if I weren't pretty certain Sodium was scum at this point.
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Response to Sodium's most recent post is pointless now. Waiting for Sodium to respond to Edible before I assess what's going on.
Ideas on Edible's claim itself and Roukan's reaction will follow that.
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Waiting it is.
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The "If the idea for this setup came from a song, should I be singing?" Votecount.
Kitten4U: Roukanken (L-6)
EX Na2O2: Kilgamayan, Pesco, UncertainKitten, Kiro, Alice Margatroid, Khorneish Game Hen, Kiro (L-1)
Khorneish Game Hen: EX Na2O2, Serpentarius, Kitten4U, Kiro, Pesco (L-3)
Serpentarius: Edible? (L-5)
Alice Margatroid: Roukanken (L-6)
Edible: Roukanken (L-5)
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here i am
Sodium: What I mean is that you've been tunneling on me just like Day 1. Did you really have nothing to say about any other points people brought up? Did you really find nothing else but me suspicious enough to warrant talking about it?
Also I like how you ignored my first point. Is it because it's true?
Edible: The roleclaim looks very fishy. First of all, you claimed that you would know if it was a truth or lie. And how would this happen? Modtell can't really work because Mod can't be on 24/7. Are you implying that you KNOW Sodium's alignment?
UK seems to be doing absolutely nothing from her WOOHOO as of the moment. Will require a reread later.
##UNVOTE
##VOTE EDIBLE
Don't trust Edible enough to allow him supreme hammer power.
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UK seems to be doing absolutely nothing from her WOOHOO as of the moment. Will require a reread later.
Well, we probably caught scum just now, either from Sodium or Edible, and we have ties to said scum if it's sodium, quite obvious in the case of Rou.
I don't think there's much for me to do now.
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MOD: How much time is there left?
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Like 16 hours.
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misdirection tactics will not work here, Edible
so yeah got any answers to the questions posed
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It was around four hours ago that Zakeri said there were 20 more hours in the day. What's 20 minus 4?
I'm not answering questions related to my role at this point in time, stop fishing for details.
Well, it's about 7:00 P.M., and the day ends at 11:00 A.M. the following day, so with five hours until midnight, plus the eleven hours afterwards puts it at 16 hours left.
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Homework is eating my life (and it doesn't help that I'm easily distracted). Quick post before I go back to doing it. I'll probably be back on before the deadline.
Edible's claim is just...Oh god what? That coupled with the "I didn't post anything because the town was going to lynch the guy I wanted to lynch" is starting to make me lean scum on him.
There's another thing bugging me too. Kiro, you stated that you believed the doc claim because the claim itself looked legit, yet in your next post you vote for Sodium. What made you change your mind on the doc claim specifically? If the claim is indeed true wouldn't that make Sodium town?
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Seniwac: Don't bother pursuing details about Edible's role, it makes you look worse than you already do AND given roles that have been used before his explanation for how things will work is a valid one.
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Also I would suggest everyone hold off on their assessment of Edible's claim until after Sodium has posted and Edible has returned his findings.
If people MUST be curious, Edible's claim appears to be some sort of daytime variant on the Lie Detector, which is plausible as a role. I care little for Sodium hearing this assessment because he has pretty explicit instructions that he can't dance around.
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My role in this game is a Town-aligned Doctor.
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EBWOP:
My Role In This Game
Town Aligned Three Shot Doctor
Haiku Format, YEEEAAAAAAAH!
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Thanks, Sodium.
*waits for Zakeri*
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EBWOP: Nice haiku.
Also, if you're scum dragging this out I'm going to light you on fire, and then have Alice change your nick every day to some different chemical forever.
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That was a nice haiku. (U)Kitten approved!
I will await the result.
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The "Wine Drinking Contest" Votecount.
Kitten4U: Roukanken (L-6)
EX Na2O2: Kilgamayan, Pesco, UncertainKitten, Kiro, Alice Margatroid, Khorneish Game Hen, Kiro (L-2)
Khorneish Game Hen: EX Na2O2, Serpentarius, Kitten4U, Kiro, Pesco (L-3)
Serpentarius: Edible? (L-5)
Alice Margatroid: Roukanken (L-6)
Edible: Roukanken, Khorneish Game Hen (L-4)
About 15 hours left.
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No result. :(
Well, I kinda think he's town now anyway, to be honest.
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...Whaddaya mean, "no result"? I was under the impression you'd tell us "he's telling the truth" or "he's lying".
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I was under the impression I'd be telling you that as well. My ability seems to have fizzled somehow.
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A PM may work?
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Assuming Edible isn't just BS'ing us, my guess would be that Sodium has some sort of ability that makes him impossible to target. Either way, the information we get from his flip just became a lot more attractive. It sure as heck doesn't make him look any more townie to me.
##Vote: EX Na2O2 (L-1)
As far as I'm concerned, he can be hammered at any time.
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I'm thinking he's looking town now for meta reasons. I think Scum-Sodium would have caved in some fashion.
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No, what transpired before your result is a null tell. ScumSodium had nothing to gain from not following to your instructions, and what would have caused your role to fizzle if he were a Doc?
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I'm thinking he's looking town now for meta reasons. I think Scum-Sodium would have caved in some fashion.
If he has a role that makes him immune to other abilities, presumably he knows as much, and so he'd have known he had nothing to fear from your ultimatum.
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If he had such a power, why didn't he include it with his roleclaim?
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EDWOP: Inevitable "WHOOOOOOPS I FORGOT" incoming.
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ScumSodium had nothing to gain from not following to your instructions
Think what you will - the empirical data I've gathered via my personal experience says scum are more likely to give up when hammered with a good case than town.
Pressed with the immediate and impending doom of a role investigation, I believe ScumSodium would have called it quits. I believe automatically assuming it was an ability of Sodium's that caused my LD to fail is a mistake.
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Then why did the LD fail then Edible?
Is it because
you don't have that ability? :V
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...Uh, What? You were telling the truth that you have an ability, right Edible?
Well, this makes me lean town on Edible actually, as if he were scum, I doubt he'd even do something so risky as to claim a lie detector. Then say he got no result, and while that is obviously weird and suspicious, I doubt scum would CLAIM LIE DETECTOR JUST TO SAY "lolnoresult".
I am not ability immune. Why would a doc be ability immune?
-
No result. :(
...What.
Okay, this can be read in one of two ways. Either Edible is lying about his role and is using 'no result' as a get-out clause, or Sodium has some sort of action immune power.
But would any role be immune to day-actions? What sort of role would that be? 'You are X, you're immune to everything'?
Edible's 'oh yeah, despite the fact that my power did exactly what it wasn't supposed to do I trust Sodium now' is also infuriating. I was expecting a 'truth' response, possibly a 'false' if Edible was lying or if I was wrong about Sodium, but I'll admit this caught me by surprise.
Personally I'm still leaning towards Edible being scum making excuses, but I'm thinking that if worst comes to worst Sodium should probably be lynched ahead of KGH for the sake of information here. This is pretty confusing, and it might take a few flips to figure out what's going on.
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Pressed with the immediate and impending doom of a role investigation, I believe ScumSodium would have called it quits. I believe automatically assuming it was an ability of Sodium's that caused my LD to fail is a mistake.
Your scenario is different from the one I was describing earlier.
What evidence do you have that we should not think Sodium has a scum role that makes him immune to whatever your ability does?
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EBWOP: I'll also add that this entire dilemma is leaving me suspicious of a potential Edible/Sodium pair, because Edible seemed to wait a little too close to deadline before asking the big question.
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Wait, were you trying to tie in the "he would have collapsed if he were scum" bit to that?
If he were scum with an ability that would cause your ability to fizzle, he would be under no pressure whatsoever to not do what you said, so he would have no reason to cave.
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But if he was scum with such ability, would it not be better for him to play along and not make himself even more suspicious?
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anyways this is a huge big pile of WIFOM that I may suspect Edible intentionally created to disrupt our reads
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No, because claiming a scummy role like "I can't be targeted by pro-town roles!" is not as good a claim as Doc to get people off your back.
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No, because claiming a scummy role like "I can't be targeted by pro-town roles!" is not as good a claim as Doc to get people off your back.
I was referring to Edible's proposition. Not abiding by it would cause quite the suspicion on him. Therefore, I would assume that he would go through with it.
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EBWOP: I'll also add that this entire dilemma is leaving me suspicious of a potential Edible/Sodium pair, because Edible seemed to wait a little too close to deadline before asking the big question.
This is obvious. One of them needs to hang. I think Edible realized we were likely to lynch sodium anyway, so if he gave a lying result, he'd be lynched next, and it'd be game. No result was the only SCUM move he could make.
I'm willing to lynch either Sodium or Edible at this point. Tempted to go Edible actually, since we lose less if we're wrong.
-
Is it because
you don't have that ability? :V
...Uh, What? You were telling the truth that you have an ability, right Edible?
What evidence do you have that we should not think Sodium has a scum role that makes him immune to whatever your ability does?
Usasasa~
Okay, gambit over. I'm probably not a lie detector. I did, however, manage to satisfy my desire to learn Sodium's alignment without actually lynching a potential Doc. Whether it satisfies anyone else's is up in the air.
Cut by UK: I fully expected to get votes for this, but why would I stick my neck out so far were I scum?
-
Okay, gambit over. I'm probably not a lie detector.
T_T
So if you're 'probably not a lie detector', what are you?
-
And what exactly did you learn, Edible? Sodium went with the obvious plan and went with his claim. What does this tell you?
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EDWOP: A little too early to push that, eh?
-
So if you're 'probably not a lie detector', what are you?
I'm a rolefisher.
Oh wait, that's you!
And what exactly did you learn, Edible? Sodium went with the obvious plan and went with his claim. What does this tell you?
Not so obvious. I explained why I think Sodium's town already.
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I'm a rolefisher.
Oh wait, that's you!
You just fakeclaimed. I think I have the right to rolefish.
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A few unknown meta reasons and a claim that he would've caved in. Reasons that were not explained or detailed.
What's there to hide?
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You just fakeclaimed. I think I have the right to rolefish.
Reasonable enough, I suppose. I'm still not telling. <3
A few unknown meta reasons and a claim that he would've caved in. Reasons that were not explained or detailed.
Meta reasons: Sodium is not the most patient player and would take an easier way out if offered, and he had plenty of time to stir between the time I made my fakeclaim and the time he responded.
What's there to hide?
Great leading question. Do you practice those often?
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Reasonable enough, I suppose. I'm still not telling. <3
...Vote confirmed.
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Edible: One of those Kilga Spoonfeed Fetish Posts (tm) would be greatly appreciated right now. I'm not quite understanding your line of thought. Are you implying that Scum Sodium would rather want to be lynched?
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Um ok.
So Edible is not really a lie detector. That means at the very least, his asking Sodium to say something and waiting for a response from Zakeri is somewhat of an elaborate charade to cover for something else. Although a daytime investigation that's not a lie detector is kinda new to me. He held off on it for awhile though, saying Sodium was the obvious lynch and pushing Serp as an alternative case. So Edible, who do you think we should lynch today after your determination?
---
K4U: I believed Sodium's roleclaim initially. Then I realized I should not to take too much stock into it. I decided to reread the voting patterns for KGH and Sodium and decided that there was a little right for KGH (which is an aspect I had not focused on before) which convinced me to go back onto Sodium. Although now, I'm still thinking about the best course of action. Currently leaning towards a brand new case. If both Edible and Sodium are indeed Town power roles, Night 2 might see some clarification with an NK and/or other power roles taking action.
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Kiro: Would pursuing a new case be that good of an idea? The day's end is coming soon. I know for sure I can't catch it (school) So are you determined that you can find another viable lynch target in that time?
oh wait dammit that target is most likely me
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My biggest problem with this is that Edible was fine with suspecting Sodium and decided his claim was bull, and then suddenly OH WAIT LIE DETECTOR. If he was so sure Sodium was scum before, why pull the gambit?
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Okay, gambit over. I'm probably not a lie detector.
T_T
So if you're 'probably not a lie detector', what are you?
It's an uncertainty gambit. Roll with it.
So, yeah, you do realize your result is colored by Rou, right?
Dammit, so many connections...you can't ALL be scum.
Sodium needs to be lynched at this point. If he's scum we can likely turn to either Rou or Edible for the final scum.
As for sticking your neck out, besides the WIFOM, consider this:
If you succeeded, you'd effectively have cleared you and Sodium to near endgame. FURTHER, if you decided to implicate So-bro with a guilty, you'd have a free pass. The problem is Sodium admitting it would be out of character for scum him, so you'd not quite avoid scrutiny.
Maybe I'm paranoid, but I don't like your excuse.
Cuts don't really affect my analysis.
-
Man I'd love someone to pop up as a Mass Dayvig right about now.
I'm already tired of this day and want it to end. There are three solid cases out there. Seniwac and Sodium for obvious reasons, Edible for, well, Lynch All Liars. If Edible is town he needs to learn that scum hunting is only 50% of the game and that convincing others you're right is the other 50% and he needs to do a hell of a lot more to convince himself Sodium is town to make people believe it.
I would not object to any of these people dying. I would not object all THREE of them dying. (Can some Nightvigges help us out? thx luv u <3)
Sodium's case is founded in a scum flip, however, so I'm most comfortable voting for him. Seniwac would be my #2 because he's been scummier than Edible for slightly longer than Edible.
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UK: I'm not quite seeing your arguements. How are you defining "success" within the parameters of Edible's roleclaim? And your "free pass" point is totally dependant on Sodium being scum. If he wasn't and flipped town, Edible is on a fast train to ropeland.
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Edible: One of those Kilga Spoonfeed Fetish Posts (tm) would be greatly appreciated right now. I'm not quite understanding your line of thought. Are you implying that Scum Sodium would rather want to be lynched?
I'm implying nothing - I'm stating that Scum Sodium would have called it quits under the pressure of the combination of a decent case and an impending alignment examination.
So Edible, who do you think we should lynch today after your determination?
And here is my problem. When I reread D1 earlier, the two cases that came to me were Sodium (which had lots of evidence and made him a fairly clear D2 lynch) and Serp (which was almost hilariously bad, but I figured it had enough mojo to warrant mentioning). When I pulled off this gambit, I was hoping Sodium would be scum so we could stop playing footsie about it and move on with the game. Instead, his responses have led me to believe he's town after all, which leaves me with... Serp's case, which sucks.
I no longer think Sodium is the correct lynch for the day, but I can't really hold it against anyone else if they hammer him. I'm still feeling Tasty Chicken Man is probably town, but in a similar fashion to Sodium, I wouldn't feel offended if he got lynched.
That leaves me with UK (who I had gut feelings on D1), Kilga (who I'm starting to feel is a little suspicious), Kiro (... rofl), and Alice (who?). None of these are getting lynched today, given the time we have remaining, unless I can find something absolutely golden during a reread I'm not sure if I'll have time for.
-
EBWOP: Oh yeah, K4U is playing. And I forgot to mention Roukan. :<
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UK: I'm not quite seeing your arguements. How are you defining "success" within the parameters of Edible's roleclaim? And your "free pass" point is totally dependant on Sodium being scum. If he wasn't and flipped town, Edible is on a fast train to ropeland.
The idea is Edible and Sodium are scumbuddies for the free pass.
Success as scum would be the idea that he gets a freepass by super bussing sodium. However, if sodium actually lied it wouldn't fit his meta as well, so he had to use a different tack.
Basically, if Sodium is scum, Edible or Rou has to be his partner. Edible for obvious reasons, and Rou for the fact that he brought up the fact Edible was probably faking and reasoning why.
-
I'm not quite understanding "Sodium actually lying." Are you claiming that sodium was truthful about the claim?
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KGH: Could you tell me why you're voting me again? You haven't said it in a straight-forward manner once. By straight forward, I mean "I think Sodium is scum because ______".
Edible: Dirty Dirty Liar. You should go die easy. Also, you should've used umu, the moe so*shot* But really, why would you do that? I demand your thought process.
Vote pending until answers.
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EBWOP: I mean I'll keep or change my vote depending on the answers.
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Edible: Dirty Dirty Liar. You should go die easy. Also, you should've used umu, the moe so*shot* But really, why would you do that? I demand your thought process.
When I reread D1 earlier, the two cases that came to me were Sodium (which had lots of evidence and made him a fairly clear D2 lynch) and Serp (which was almost hilariously bad, but I figured it had enough mojo to warrant mentioning). When I pulled off this gambit, I was hoping Sodium would be scum so we could stop playing footsie about it and move on with the game. Instead, his responses have led me to believe he's town after all, which leaves me with... Serp's case, which sucks.
-
Argh. The more I think about this the less sure I am of myself and the more people I add to my overall suspect pool. I think there's only one person in this game right now that's not me that I wouldn't vote for for some reason and that's pissing me off greatly.
No one should be voting for Edible. Voting for Edible implies you think ScumEdible/TownSodium and that's absolutely insane at this juncture. ScumEdible has zero reason to not just go ahead and say TownSodium was telling the truth. Worst case scenario for ScumEdible has TownSodium getting mislynched after ScumEdible flips and the remaining scum laughs in our faces for lynching the doc.
As much as I hate to admit it, ScumSodium/TownEdible also sounds ludicrous for the reasons Edible outlined about Sodium breaking down. Barring unbelievable bad luck for Edible (such as Sodium drawing some scum role that makes him immune to Lie Detection, like a mutant Godmother), Sodium probably would have thrown in the towel.
This leaves Double Town and Double Scum. would ScumEdible stick his neck out like this? Yes, so he could say exactly that, and it bothers me that he tried to raise this point in his defense. But Edible has inextricably tied himself to Sodium now, and suddenly and extra wrinkle has been thrown into the "do you believe the doc claim?" scenario.
Because of this pairing, I am willing to switch over to Seniwac, because Edible/Sodium as a scumpair is dead in the water at this point (they'll be rooted out by process of elimination before the game is over) and Edible/Sodium as two townies is a very real possibility. Throw in the risk of Sodium actually being the doc, and the fact that Edible was the Zengar swingvote...
##Unvote: Sodium Peroxide
##Vote: Seniwac
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So basically, you wanted to see if I were lying, but without having to go the full 100% way of discerning whether or not I'm lying, which is lynching me, so you started that gambit in hopes of catching me as scum?
...I can see the townie intent, but really, why bother? It seems like way too much effort and risk for that little of a return that can be achieved other easier ways.
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I'm not quite understanding "Sodium actually lying." Are you claiming that sodium was truthful about the claim?
I'm claiming from hypothetical scum Edible and Sodium.
If Sodium were scum, and Edible was trying to save the team by super bussing sodium, he'd get scrutiny since Sodium would be more likely to cave than try to flatly lie.
This leaves Double Town and Double Scum. would ScumEdible stick his neck out like this? Yes, so he could say exactly that, and it bothers me that he tried to raise this point in his defense. But Edible has inextricably tied himself to Sodium now, and suddenly and extra wrinkle has been thrown into the "do you believe the doc claim?" scenario.
I would like to state that the swing vote tell isn't as good anymore. Affinity used it in Touhou Remix.
As for this situation, I'm actually considering an Edible lynch as possibly best. His supposed power has been spent and he hasn't claimed anything else, and flat refuses to. Sodium is a marginally worse lynch in this aspect with being potentially useful.
The thing is, a Sodium lynch would also provide a lot of information. Namely, if he's scum, Edible or Rou is his scumbuddy. We basically win. If he's town, we can probably clear Edible and look more favorably on Rou. It's a good situation IMO.
-
Affinity used it in Touhou Remix on Day 3 when team scum had the manpower to afford a mislynch. Day 1 is a much different scenario.
-
So rather than lynch one of them in order to get information, you're willing to just jump on a different wagon and leave everyone in the dark?
Voting Seniwac is pointless unless you're convinced that
- Edible faked being Lie Detecor in order to suddenly flip the lynch he'd supported for entirely Townie purposes.
- Sodium was genuine with the Doc claim
Personally I severely disapprove of Kilga moving away from either of these lynches. >_>
-
Affinity used it in Touhou Remix on Day 3 when team scum had the manpower to afford a mislynch. Day 1 is a much different scenario.
But if we assume ballsy ediscum... which this WOULD presuppose, the Zengar thing is less of a tell.
-
Kilga, do you not recall that there were posts in between Edible's fakeclaim and Sodium's decision? These posts questioned the validity of the claim. Would you still actually believe ScumSodium would've caved in EVEN THOUGH there are arguments being made against the validity of the fakeclaim?
And what do you think about Roukanken? ScumRou has been considered; what are your thoughts?
-
Are you going to answer my question?
-
So rather than lynch one of them in order to get information, you're willing to just jump on a different wagon and leave everyone in the dark?
You say this like Seniwac's flip will be completely devoid of information. I'm very inclined to think Seniwac is the opposite alignment of whatever the Edible/Sodium pair is.
But if we assume ballsy ediscum... which this WOULD presuppose, the Zengar thing is less of a tell.
That's a huge "if", and it's not an "if" I believe.
Kilga, do you not recall that there were posts in between Edible's fakeclaim and Sodium's decision? These posts questioned the validity of the claim. Would you still actually believe ScumSodium would've caved in EVEN THOUGH there are arguments being made against the validity of the fakeclaim?
Yes.
And what do you think about Roukanken? ScumRou has been considered; what are your thoughts?
I see Roukan as possible scum because ScumRoukan tends to bus his buddies early on. His actions today, however - providing input in addition to asking questions (useful questions, too) and not taking things at face value - have me leaning town.
-
Man, let's put it this way. Edible made an effort to come out and say something. The only reason a Scum Edible would take the time to do this is if Sodium is also Scum and is a valuable Scum role worth taking the lynch for. And that's just dumb because it only speeds up their deaths when their weakness in the first place is low numbers. We were kinda set to lynch Sodium anyways so if Scum Edible knew Sodium was Town, why stick his neck out?
So if we follow that line of thought, Edible is likely Town. Now the next part is him saying his action used on Sodium did not give him a result from Zakeri. But Edible still feels confident in making the assertion that Sodium is Town. Edible's reasoning kinda sucks, but he's still making that assertion with confidence. I'm willing to give him stock in it.
Analyzing the possible Day 2/Night 2 outcomes is just ridiculous, but the best scenarios I'm seeing now is we let Scum deal with the Edible/Sodium WIFOM as I'm seriously doubting they are a ScumPair. Scum may choose to ignore them, but they run the risk of being foiled by one or both of their abilities. For once, let Scum's actions work in our favor.
And at some point, we have to address this damn issue with KGH. I take back what I said earlier about his wagon not really garnering any information because there have been a decent amount of vote switches and differing justifications for a KGH lynch. His recent posts have not done enough to still tell us what his actual opinion is. So KGH, do you think Edible and/or Sodium are Scum?
Numerous cuts: I am essentially agreeing with how Kilga wants to proceed with this. It is the most effective way to clear up the 3 loose ends so far in this game with trying to minimize the loss if it turns out all 3 of them are Town. The worst case would be lynching the Doc and Edible dies Night 2. The KGH lynch would mean lynching a Vanilla Townie and possibly only one or neither of Sodium or Edible die Night 2 with the chance they or someone else will have gained more information about them. And yea, it also has to be KGH because I'm now not seeing anything other than these 3 being lynch choices today.
KGH: Christ, I want to see what you think more than what anyone else thinks. The only thing you say about Edible when you vote him is you don't trust him with Sodium being at L-1. But that's not a stated case on whether you think he's scum or not. You don't provide shit for opinions. Draw your own damn conclusions first. That's why I'm willing to put you on the chopping block.
-
I won't be here for the Day's End due to school. I don't trust in my ability to wake early. So I'm going to post a bit of analysis before I go to bed.
Edible leans townie to me. The intent behind the fakeclaim does this. Also lynching him would be an information spout, I do not believe it would be the right course of action to pursue and I doubt it would push through.
Sodium still seems scummy. For reasons previously stated by others (cheerleading, etc.) and me. I do not believe Sodium would've collapsed upon pressure because of the posts doubting the claim's validity.
I have a shaky scum feel on Roukan. This is mainly because his pouncing upon Edible for Lynch all Liers. Probably wrong here, but Roukan did not seem to mind Edible's intents, only the fact that he lied.
Kilga feels neutral as of the moment. Raises good points about ScumEdible but I'm not believing his ScumSodium arguments.
Because Sodium is scummy and I believe he would be the most likely scummy person lynched...
##UNVOTE
##VOTE SODIUM
I'm going to plunk my vote down.
CUTS BY MANY BUT NOT REALLY CARE BECAUSE OF SLEEP
-
You say this like Seniwac's flip will be completely devoid of information. I'm very inclined to think Seniwac is the opposite alignment of whatever the Edible/Sodium pair is.
I'll note right away that Sodium was suspicious of KGH pretty much the whole way through while Edible said 'obvtown not worth my time'.
Still don't see why we shouldn't resort to Lynch All Liars and vote Edible. The biggest reason it sticks out is, again, until the big Lie Detector thing he was totally for the Sodium lynch. Why did he get the sudden urge to pull a gambit? I can't see a reason for Town!Edible to do it, and Scum!Edible has resons to do it regardless of Sodium's alignment. As is, though, I'm leaning slightly more towards ScumBatmanEdible/TownSodium, with him hoping to get cred for clearing Sodium late-day before he flips Town.
-
That's a huge "if", and it's not an "if" I believe.
Depends on how far Edible wanted to go. I don't believe the turning vote tell as much as you all do. Further, there is daytalk. Edible and Sodium could have had a lot more coordination. I don't like this entire situation, because the potential gain was VERY high.
...and was that the fucking hammer?
-
Nah. Would have been, had Kilga not unvoted Sodium.
-
No it wasn't the hammer. Informal vote count is now L-2 on Sodium since KGH moved off of Sodium earlier. I think KGH is also at L-2 with Kilga's switch, but I'll hold off voting until we get it from the mod.
##Unvote Sodium
-
Actually, hmm. I may have to rethink my initial assessment of Roukan.
Roukan, given you believe ScumEdible/TownSodium, can you explain why Edible chose "No Result" over "Sodium is telling the truth"?
-
Bleh, I was holding back with this in hopes that Sodium would get lynched anyway, but it looks like KGH is going to get lynched instead. While it's not impossible that KGH is scum, I have very good reason to believe that Sodium is scum either way, and I'm not willing to pass up the obvious scum lynch and possibly have my role information wiped by janitor just on the off chance that someone else will tie himself to Sodium tomorrow.
I roleclaim Kaguya Houraisan, Town Doc. More to come after I get back from dinner.
-
argh i hate every single one of you
##Unvote: Seniwac
##Vote: Sodium Peroxide
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Nyoro~n.
##Unvote
##Vote Sodium
-
I roleclaim Kaguya Houraisan, Town Doc. More to come after I get back from dinner.
*dies laughing*
-
For the record, Serp was the one person referenced at the top of this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1918.msg79180#msg79180).
I didn't want to say anything at risk of exposing him to NK but hey.
-
Kudos to Sodium for calling Edible's bluff, though.
For all the good it did you in the end.
-
I wouldn't clear Edible based on it.
I love you Serp.
-
Oh yar, bedtime. bai.
-
Bah, I missed all the fun. :( Homework sucks.
I'll second that ilu Serp.
-
Kudos to Sodium for calling Edible's bluff, though.
For all the good it did you in the end.
Indeed. You almost got away with it.
I wouldn't clear Edible based on it.
Me neither, almost. I am a huge retard. \o/
-
The "Mod enjoyed watching the day's events" Votecount.
Kitten4U: Roukanken (L-6)
EX Na2O2: Kilgamayan, Pesco, UncertainKitten, Kiro, Alice Margatroid, Khorneish Game Hen, Kiro, Serpentarius, Khorneish Game Hen, Kilgamayan, EX Na2O2 (Hammer)
Khorneish Game Hen: EX Na2O2, Serpentarius, Kitten4U, Kiro, Pesco, Kilgamayan (L-4)
Serpentarius: Edible? (L-5)
Alice Margatroid: Roukanken (L-6)
Edible: Roukanken, Khorneish Game Hen (L-5)
Sodium was Lynched. He was Syou Toramaru, Disciple of Vaisravana. Who is also able to Gather one person's Treasures, making him the Mafia Janitor.
Flavor to come when I'm not lazy. Night actions to come ASAP, please.
-
The Discussion Continues deeply into the night hours, and everyone is about to turn in. Suddenly, Serpentarius barged in and threw Nazrin onto the floor.
"Sorry ... Master!" The mouse squeaked towards Sodium. All eyes turned towards him, glaring with villainous intent.
"What's your connection to this rat?" Sodium stumbled over his words, trying to find an answer, but was not given the chance to think, as he was roped up. Sitting in the corner, tied to Nazrin, Sodium struggled.
"So tell me. I take it you're not Byakuren Hiziri."
"Hijiri"
"Shut up."
The Disguise faded to reveal Syou Toramaru, who commands her friend Nazrin to find treasures.
Syou spoke. "I admit, we were the ones who stole away all identification from umu..."
"The person or th-Ow! Don't punch me!"
"Tell us who he was!"
"Never!"
grumbling was heard all around.
"Tell us why you did it, at least."
Syou took a deep breath. "It's because Miss Byakuren has decided to fail us. We unsealed her, brought her back into the world and ... She refuses to help. For a Long time, We've imagined a world she preached. A World where Humans live equally with Youkai, instead of in fear of them. But she decided not to help us, and so we've taken this matter into our own hands. We've gone out, and fought you so that we could convince Byakuren that her cause was just, and to follow through with it!"
Both Nazrin and Syou were tearful at the end of Syou's speach.
The others however took sense with it. "So, basically, you're trying to overthrow Youkai's control over humans, so that You can force everyone to live on "Equal grounds?"
Syou was caught off guard. "Err, overthrow Youkai? But..."
"Well yeah. Almost everyone that attended this meeting is a youkai. We're all gathering here to figure out how to stop our own humans from Rampaging."
"Err, ... I-"
"On top of that, you should already be aware of the Spellcard rule, right?"
"Well, yeah-"
"So then you know the function of the rule, right? So that Youkai can freely cause phenomenon, and so that Humans can just as freely solve it. We've rarely ever had a death occur from a Danmaku fight ever since the Spellcard rule was invented, neither Human or Youkai. In fact, Youkai Hunting now a days is just Humans getting youkai to shut up just by beating them in a Danmaku duel."
Syou and Nazrin wondered about this for a while. "So, really, we never needed to worry about "Youkai Hunters" In the first place?"
"Not at all."
"Well, in that case, we shou-"
"Yeah, we're done talking to you."
"Wait, what are you doi-AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHhhhhhhhhh...."
They all looked off in the distance.
"That was a nice throw."
"Thanks."
-
Everyone wakes up to a brand new day, filled with new possibilities, new discussions, and of course, there was-
"AHHHHHHHHH!"
"What's the matter!?"
"I-It's Yuyuko! She's Dead!"
A Silence filled the air.
"well yeah. Of course She's dead. She's a Ghost."
"Oh, Right. I forgot."
The day continued as normal.
Day 3 will end Sunday, Sept. 6, 11:59 P.M. EST - 72 hours from now.
-
##Vote: Kitten4U
Completely ignored the Zengar train in favor of Seniwac, ignored/disapproved of the Sodium train in favor of Seniwac.
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DISlike Kitten4U for basically ignoring ALL of the scum trains so far and voting for someone else who I think is a likely Townie, furthermore also DISlike her for incessant lurking and not contributing much when actually posting, it gives her the feel of a classical Active Lurky scum.
##Vote: Kitten4U
DISlike Kiro for being on, then off, then on, then off on Sodium Azidotetrazolate (this chemical is awesome, btw (http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2009/01/07/things_i_wont_work_with_azidotetrazolate_salts.php)), also would like more input from him period.
DISlike Pesco for actually playing competently this game. Well not so much actual dislike, but it does unnerve me slightly.
Very much like and agree with Kilga that we could use a couple multi-shot dayvigs right about now.
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Should hear from Serp to see who he protected of course.
I see where Kilga is going with that angle and I think I can expand on that a little more. Looks like only ones not too touch Sodium were K4U, Rou, and Edible. And of those, Edible at least said Sodium was the obvious lynch.
I see Rou jumped on K4U right at the start of Day 2 for mostly ignoring the Zengar wagon which is a good catch it seems. Going back to her first post of Day 2 (#350), she references two of her earlier posts which detail why she thought KGH was more scummy than Zengar. One of the interesting things that stands out is she's going for KGH because she thinks KGH made a slip of the tongue. It's always possible, but in the grand scheme of things, that kind of evidence is weak. The rest of it are the usual points about KGH. But with the way he voted for Sodium twice near the end of Day 2 and just the attacks Sodium made against KGH, he is looking like a Townie.
And looking at her #350, she doesn't bother to vote anybody either. For just replying to points levied against you, you're strictly defensive and didn't put your vote out till #374, after Sodium and Serp. And it was on KGH again. I'm not sure what would have caused you to hesitate going after KGH earlier as nothing about him really changed. It does indeed look like you were avoiding commenting about Sodium as much with your justification that Sodium forgetting that daytalk existed probably looked like an honest mistake so he'd be Townie. Doesn't really address the actual evidence against him.
So yea, this looks like a good choice for today.
##Vote Kitten4U
Cut by Alice: Want me to address anything in particular? My reasons for changing my vote have been outlined earlier.
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I think it's pretty reasonable to assume Serp protected himself.
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Well I guess I would be the obvious lynch for today, but I'm not scum. I have no idea how to go about proving that, but I'll certainly try.
First, does anyone think my reasoning on KGH was bad? No one has told me that my case on him was bad, only that they disagreed with it, and since I thought it was a pretty good case and since KGH was doing basically the same things for the entire game I saw no reason to not suspect him (well until now, but I'll get into that later). The reason I didn't immediately vote for him was because I wanted to do a re-read on Sodium. Obvious connections were obvious, but I was just having trouble seeing scumSodium. Naivity on my part. Zengar wagon was basically ignored because of tunneling like I said yesterday.
Sodium flipping scum is making me considerably less suspicious of KGH now. After doing a quick re-read of their posts it seems very unlikely that both of them would be scum.
So I think Edible is the final one. He was very lurky on D1 and even stated that he did it intentionally D2. The whole thing with the fake lie detector looks like an elaborate gambit to try to save Sodium to me, and this makes sense because he had a very useful role. The entire claim felt off to me, to the point where I honestly couldn't tell if he was joking or not (then again, I had never heard of a lie detector PR, so maybe that helped).
##Vote Edible
...I'm getting the feeling that I'm focusing way too much on details and not enough on what's generally happening. I'll make sure not to do this in future games. Anyway, if any of you have any specific questions for me please ask them since I'm not sure what to say in my defense.
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Ah, this game is just full of deja vu. My first game here was GWU Mafia, where scum passed over killing me, the claimed power role, to attack Kiro. That's exactly what happened last night, too, unless scum deliberately gave up a kill to give that impression. Anyway, I protected Kiro both nights - N1 because I suspected umu's case on Zengar of having been a bus gone bad, and N2 because of my developing mindhax.
I'll do a full reread later tonight when I have time, I just want to get this information out there now.
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Oh, well then. That clears the lingering suspicions I had about Kiro's Day 2 weirdness.
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Kitten: After how Sodium played yesterday it's very unlikely you'll be able to argue yourself out of your own lynch. If you're town that simply made two very bad decisions then I apologize, but Sodium already tried pulling the "I didn't know" wool over our eyes and well yeah.
I do agree with you that Edible would be next in line, for whatever that is worth.
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Just to clarify to everyone since Serp has mentioned his protection, I did not get a notification that I was attacked last night.
K4U: Well, I can't really think of many questions for you and you've kind of resigned yourself to letting your actions stand as is, so let's see how your case on Edible stacks up. I also think Edible is a little suspicious, but the whole elaborateness put him in the spotlight and with a second Scum all but guaranteed to be lynched, I don't see why he would have gone to those lengths. Given that we have Sodium's flip now, the only reason I can see Scum Edible doing what he did is as a super extreme WIFOM to confuse Town, not because Sodium's role was THAT good. It would also assuredly hint that he's the last Scum and there are not 4 in this game (possible, but a bit of a stretch).
Him trying to save Sodium would have had to have him explicitly say that Sodium was telling the truth. That would still be suicidal because eventually, we would have been able to confirm/deny that and the 2 would be done. And doing the gambit and calling Sodium guilty would have sealed Sodium's fate and he'd still be a little suspicious anyways. Scum Edible choosing a "my role fizzled" actually could have been the best move he could have made as it just put doubt on people and forced Serp to publically roleclaim. I think the point is that it was a pretty dumb move either way and while it benefitted Scum more than Town, Scum Edible should have known that it could have been foiled by a Doc claim which means the risk far outweighs the rewards.
The remote possibility is that Serp is a Scum Doc and/or Scum knows that umu was the real Doc or took a chance that no Doc existed in the setup. But that's a pretty wild stretch and certainly not strong enough to worth lynching Serp over at this time. So with the above case, Edible at least looks more Townie than you (due to the relative stupidity of the whole thing) and with your latest lack of a defense, I don't see why I should switch from you to him at the moment. Kilga kind of summed it up for me as well. I totally cannot play Mafia succinctly.
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You guys make it sound like I should never play like this.
I'll need to reread K4U in isolation but I do see the concerns. I think Edible is the more likely scum right now from the party I slept through. IIRC Alice was also absent during the whole song and dance.
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Kitten: After how Sodium played yesterday it's very unlikely you'll be able to argue yourself out of your own lynch. If you're town that simply made two very bad decisions then I apologize, but Sodium already tried pulling the "I didn't know" wool over our eyes and well yeah.
Yeah, that's basically what I'm seeing at this point. Not my style to just completely give up before I'm dead though.
@Kiro
What exactly can I do to defend myself? Everything in the case on my except for the part about me being scum is completely true. I tunneled on KGH so badly that I literally didn't comment on anything else and I almost completely ignored Zengar's wagon. I believed Sodium was town and I thought the claim was real, so I was adamantly against his lynch. From what I can tell those are the two main points against me and they're both true, even if people are coming to the wrong conclusion from looking at them.
At this point the only thing I can claim is the "I'm a newbie" defense. I really didn't want to pull this card, but it's the only thing I can think of. This is the second game of Mafia I have ever played and the first game I have played as town if that means anything at all.
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K4U's posts are nicely condensed here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=320)
What exactly can I do to defend myself? Everything in the case on my except for the part about me being scum is completely true. I tunneled on KGH so badly that I literally didn't comment on anything else and I almost completely ignored Zengar's wagon. I believed Sodium was town and I thought the claim was real, so I was adamantly against his lynch. From what I can tell those are the two main points against me and they're both true, even if people are coming to the wrong conclusion from looking at them.
Rou is in a similar boat to you. Only that he didn't focus on Seniwac the way you did. How do you feel Rou should be judged?
Rate the likeliness of this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1918.msg79201#msg79201) post being a bus vote.
Him trying to save Sodium would have had to have him explicitly say that Sodium was telling the truth. That would still be suicidal because eventually, we would have been able to confirm/deny that and the 2 would be done. And doing the gambit and calling Sodium guilty would have sealed Sodium's fate and he'd still be a little suspicious anyways. Scum Edible choosing a "my role fizzled" actually could have been the best move he could have made as it just put doubt on people and forced Serp to publically roleclaim. I think the point is that it was a pretty dumb move either way and while it benefitted Scum more than Town, Scum Edible should have known that it could have been foiled by a Doc claim which means the risk far outweighs the rewards.
If it is scumEdible, then he's already got the profit of you guys giving him the pass.
Sodium was Lynched. He was Syou Toramaru, Disciple of Vaisravana. Who is also able to Gather one person's Treasures, making him the Mafia Janitor.
From the wording, I'd say the janitor ability was one-shot. Since it was already used, sacrificing a vanilla buddy is perfectly within reason.
The remote possibility is that Serp is a Scum Doc and/or Scum knows that umu was the real Doc or took a chance that no Doc existed in the setup. But that's a pretty wild stretch and certainly not strong enough to worth lynching Serp over at this time.
Hey guys. Remember that game where I claimed Sakuya, then Kerigis claimed Sakuya, then I claimed cop, which outed Zakeri the cop, then we lynched him and then scumKerigis won? If scumteam here is Serp, Sodium and Zengar, they wouldn't know it. It's just impossible for Serp to be scum at this point if you think about a lone scum trying to get to LyLo ASAP. They wouldn't be giving up on a NK to sow weak WIFOM. 2 confirmeds is good.
I remember that. I thought about claiming Sakuya as well.
I'm not 100% down with lynching K4U and rate Edible to be higher priority. If you're lining Edible up to be lynched tomorrow, why not today? Lastly, Seniwac is also not redeemed in my eyes by Sodium's flip. His actions are self-defence reactionary as I said yesterday and with the consideration that bussing Sodium was no loss, he shouldn't be ignored.
Off to class.
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Rou is in a similar boat to you. Only that he didn't focus on Seniwac the way you did. How do you feel Rou should be judged?
Leaning town on him since he was the one that tied the Zengar and KGH wagons D1. I think that's basically what sealed Zengar's fate. It looked like Chen couldn't get to the computer, so I'm hesitant to hold that against him.
Rate the likeliness of this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1918.msg79201#msg79201) post being a bus vote.
I find it unlikely mostly due to Sodium's D1 behavior. I think Edible is a much more likely buddy.
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Leaning town on him since he was the one that tied the Zengar and KGH wagons D1. I think that's basically what sealed Zengar's fate. It looked like Chen couldn't get to the computer, so I'm hesitant to hold that against him.
The question asks how you think Rou should be judged by others when he's in a similar position to yours.
I find it unlikely mostly due to Sodium's D1 behavior.
Do you consider Sodium's effort too concentrated to make it a possiblity of bussing?
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In terms of the Sodium case, I honestly have nothing to say other than that I honestly believed he was misguided Town as always. Given the lack of a Doc CC until after I went to bed, I saw no reason to lynch him first and foremost for anything other than information.
Roukan, given you believe ScumEdible/TownSodium, can you explain why Edible chose "No Result" over "Sodium is telling the truth"?
Scum!Edible would have wanted his magical Tenshi role to look authentic, and just saying 'oh yeah it works he's town' would have been too easy to fake. Saying that some scum role had blocked his action, while still claiming credit for having cleared Sodium, would have been easier to believe in my opinion (mainly because it requires more effort than simply stating the obvious).
Current opinions:
KGH - Oh God, where do I begin. At best, he's the new Wrathie, a stupid misguided Townie; at worst, he's a horrendous newbscum. Given that both Zengar and Sodium tried to get him lynched, though, I'm leaning more towards Town on this one.
K4U - Tunneled KGH D1, attacked him D2, clearing Sodium for more or less the same reasons I did. Tunneling the same guy and ignoring a Mafioso lynch on one day is questionable; two days in a row, it's outright suspicious.
Kiro - Voted Zengar pretty early on D1, and jumped on Sodium quickly before switching to KGH and back to Sodium. Honestly, I'm having trouble finding anything to disagree with in terms of his content, but that's because he's, well, Kiro. >_>
Rou - Probably misguided Town, was the swing vote on Zengar D1
Pesco - Okay seriously where the hell have you been
Was on Zengar D1, but chose Seniwac over Sodium on a hilariously terrible piece of probability. Also not posting anywhere near as much as he usually does. Neutral read at best.
Serp - Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Okay, went for KGH pretty heavily on D1, not switching to Zengar even after the latter started a (fairly terrible) attack on him. Goes after KGH again Day 2, and waits until nearly the end of the phase (and well after Sodium's claim) to CC. He's the only one to bring up the possibility that Umu was the doc who got janned.
This is really a case of paranoia more than anything, because Serp could potentially have claimed after knowing that Umu was the Janned Doc. Dangerous call, but I don't know if it's safe to ignore it. For now, reading as Town, but I'm paying attention to those night actions.
Kilga - Commandeered the Sodium lynch D2. Has been asking questions and generally been very helpful from more or less the start of the game. Very strong Town read.
Alice - Lists Sodium as obvscum on D2, really doesn't say anything besides that. As little as Alice ended up saying, I'll give him credit for actually hitting the mark. Slight Town read, but I'd like to see more activity.
Batman Edible - Well, we have the big bluff on D2 which ended in him clearing Sodium as Town until Serp's claim, and really not a lot of useful content before that. I'd prefer if rather than pulling gambits like that he actually just gave some useful posts. Neutral read.
UK - Again, on Zengar D1, on Sodium D2. Not really much to fault here. Town read.
Now, over N2 I decided to do a little research and look over K4U's Mafiascum game, where she was a goon.
I hadn't thought about PB's posts like that. I'll have to look at the stuff he posted before I make any judgements though.
Based on what I read on the site PB posted he probably is telling the truth. I couldn't see any of the games, but this image and a few other comments made in the Wiki made it look like role-heavy games were more common. The fact that he wanted to talk about PRs feels a bit less off to me now.
All I can really say is that he sounds like a really, really timid player. I see post 46 as consistant with that and while it feels weird I think it's just a null tell.
These all occured during the first half of day 1, and it wasn't until later in the day that she finally started aiming questions and suspicions at her scumbuddy (and even then, only as the potential buddy of the Townie she ended up voting for). Her own analysis on her play reads:
By the sounds of it I did reasonably well for most of the day until the end there. I didn't really want to buss Arxym/PO (hence my attacks on DDD, I was hoping you guys would go for a DDD lynch instead), but I couldn't find anyone better to attack and I was afraid that I would look really weird if I attacked no one. So yeah, I kind of panicked.
Putting all of this together, I'm willing to come to the conclusion that Scum!K4U is very, very bad at bussing. Consider also that she's missed both scum wagons thus far.
435 is setting off all sorts of alarms.
The claim itself and his comments after sound genuine, and while I don't think the case on him is bad I still have a hard time seeing him as scum. I don't think he faked that "I didn't know scum could daytalk" thing because he asked about something that the mod had stated in the sign up topic, and then he went on to misread that Zengar was at L-2 and not L-3. The last of which actually made him look worse, so I don't think he faked it.
Firstly, the 'it makes sense but I don't agree with it' feels slightly like cheerleading, which Sodium just proved is probably a scumtell. >_>
Secondly, using 'he misread Zengar's vote' as a defense makes no sense because she even admits it makes him look worse, yet not being able to read apparently clears him? The reason I held faith in the daytalk point was because I thought that if he was scum daytalk would be pretty obvious, i.e. it's a mistake that Town would be more likely to make. I don't understand where K4U's basis is on this defense at all - he made a mistake, therefore he's Town?
##Vote: Kitten4U
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EBWOP: Looks like Pesco's picking up on the posting now, at least. I basically wrote that whole thing during N2 and pasted it. >_>
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EBWOP: Looks like Pesco's picking up on the posting now, at least. I basically wrote that whole thing during N2 and pasted it. >_>
Damn right you *Purvis approved insult here*. You guys like shitting out 4 pages of stuff while I'm asleep and call me for not posting?
But this also means you haven't looked at today's posts.
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But this also means you haven't looked at today's posts.
Not much to comment on. K4U resorting to the 'I'm a newb, sorry guys' defense is bad. Lack of a scum NK is more interesting, since Serp's supposed protection didn't come into effect according to Kiro. GM, confirmation as to whether protected NK targets are informed of being hit?
Personally, I do not inform anyone of successful protects, should there be any.
And since we don't have a GM votecount, I'll throw up a quick one myself.
K4U - Kilga, Alice, Kiro, Rou (L-2)
Edible - K4U (L-5)
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Well, I was already planning to do this at daybreak and nothing changed. I'll actually read the preceding walls in a minute, then reread kitten, and Rou
But that doesn't matter.
##Vote: Roukanken
Do you all SERIOUSLY forget that nice little "I'm going to cover by sodium by pointing out how ridiculous this role is", as well as all the blatant defenses of Sodium yesterday? Rou had to give up Zengar. He didn't want to give up Sodium.
Doing those rereads now, then your walls.
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Rou had to give up Zengar. He didn't want to give up Sodium.
I showed up late Day 1 after a quick read of 10 pages. I would have thought that as scum that would have given me enough of an excuse to vote KGH ahead of Zengar, especially since at the time KGH was still the leading lynch.
And again, I can't say anything in my defense when it comes to the Sodium case. I screwed up, simple as that. As for Edible, I suppose I should've at least waited for Edible to produce a result before questioning his role, but quickly reading over the role it seemed too utterly broken and ridiculous to even consider believing, and I reacted. Nothing I can say beyond that.
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Your defense looks no different from what K4U is using. She's made her intent that she doesn't want to use being a newb as defense, so I'm disregarding that point.
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Your defense looks no different from what K4U is using. She's made her intent that she doesn't want to use being a newb as defense, so I'm disregarding that point.
The main difference is that I've done it once, and she's done it twice. One day tunneling and missing a scum wagon can arguably be put down to an honest mistake. Two days in a row, less so.
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Of course, as Rou was Chen, we have 8 pages of nothing.
But Sodium does kinda call out Chen, which is interesting.
Chen arrives with nothing to say page 8! YAY!
Rou comes in page 10. Ok, serious'd tiem
Rou's 312 begins to make me change my mind to be honest.
Rou 347 starts a K4U wagon. Or attempts to.
Rou 358 is where we start getting into "Ok, you have a case on Sodium, and you ignore it? wth hero". Further, isn't this how we caught Sodium? Well, one of the ways?
Rou 386 ignores most of the case on Sodium, about how the Zengar side was superior to KGH, and KGH was still being tunneled by Sodium.
(As an aside, if KGH is scum that both Sodium and Zengar were trying to bus, I am going to laugh my ass off, probably while crying)
Rou 394 is a lurker poke. I really don't like the "Sodium is a bad case, I'll ignore it" coming from him when...it wasn't
Rou 414 is another post that makes me wonder. It feels townie.
Rou's posts on page 15 feel weird. On the one hand, they are fair for pointing out Kilga's kinda bad logic, but on the other hand, they defend sodium, and some of his counterpoints are a stretch. It's like he's trying to poke at the things that can be attacked for sodium and hope the things that can't be go ignored.
Rou 453 has to be the most anti town post I've ever seen when it was pretty damned obvious Edible was doing a gambit or at least had a role in reduced capacity. Whether it was a scum or town gambit remains to be seen, but still.
The trouble is, was it scummy? Granted, it tipped off Sodium to the "yeah, this is probably fake" when he was probably still on panicky ropes. However, on the flip side...scum have daytalk. Why would Rou tell Sodium this in thread as opposed to PMing him?
This actually makes me wonder more about my initial guns blazing approach
(an aside)
But would any role be immune to day-actions? What sort of role would that be? 'You are X, you're immune to everything'?
Hi, Mafia Entrancer from Touhou Remix. I had to theoretically nerf it mid game, but the situation never came up. As written, it was immune to the dayvig, but I didn't intend that.
488, Rou starts to think!
496 rolefish. Edible really is right. You don't need to know. If you want to know, build a case on him and lynch him.
And yes, I failed to attack it before, but it really was bad in retrospect.
Ok, as an aside, having nothing to do with Rou, Kilga suddenly gained over 9000 suspicion points here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1918.msg79180#msg79180)
I'd like to take this opportunity to ask Kilga whatever happened to this? Shouldn't you be voting Edible?
Oh wait...Rou reminded me that Kilga started that push. Though it's not outside of scum Kilga character...ah hell...I dunno.
Rou 529 indicates there should be more Edible voting today as well.
Rou 561 explains the Edible flip, which is fair.
For now, I provisionally clear Rou, but not by much. A reread really does feel more like misguided town.
##unvote
Edible gets reread next, than K4U.
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She's been in the game longer than you so obviously she's got time to have screwed up twice compared to your once.
Nurupo Null point.
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Gotta love Edible 117. It's a nice set up if I start doing anti town things (like I usually do)
Edible 131 is useless
Sodium 144 does poke Edible but goes in favor of KGH. But there's also the fact that, for some reason he didn't want to vote KGH when he was voting me, but suddenly, when Edible is his second bringing KGH to L-2 is a-ok!
Nothing on page 6...or 7...
Edible 223 is more of that poking at me just enough to have basis for switching if I screw up even slightly...it's like he's trying to line up my lynch because he expects me to fuck up. There is a fair moving away from KGH and to Zengar, but even then there's a hesitance to vote.
Nothing on page 9...or 10...
Pops in for L-2 on 313. This is fair I guess.
Edible 364 is either a hard bus or a fair analysis.
I reserve my right to swoop down on mafia scum when they least expect it... like Batman. I had no real reason to defend or elaborate on my case any more than I did, because I saw Town heading in that direction anyway. And you can't really argue with the results.
This is still bad and you should feel bad.
Edible 381 is not happy either. Why look for alternatives with caught scum? A rival wagon to protect a buddy?
Edible 411 is useless
Edible 425 is the "Well, I'm prepared to hammah!"
Edible 451 is the amazing lie detector claim (I'm still using it in a game)
Let me put it this way. I already argued why scum Edible could use it. And why he couldn't outright say "OMG SCUM" if Sodium claimed town. Further, given previous stances, why waste it? Not liking it.
Edible 495 is just...TERRIBLE
No, seriously, did you HAVE to WIFOM like that?
Edible 511 is more poking me.
I think Edible is more like to be scum than Rou.
I'll reread K4U but expect to vote Edible.
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She's been in the game longer than you so obviously she's got time to have screwed up twice compared to your once. Nurupo Null point.
I disagree here. When you're around for the entirety of Day 1 and ignore the scum wagon for the entirety of the day, how does that make you less suspicious than someone who replaced in late and pushed the scum wagon into the lead?
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The "Frozen Tortellini" votecount
Kitten4u: Kilgamayan, Alice Margatroid, Kiro, Roukanken (L-2)
Edible?: Kitten4U, UncertainKitten (L-4)
Roukanken: UncertainKitten (L-6)
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K4U 105 is first serious'd post, reasonably charitable towards Seniwac/
108 still charitable
K4U starts the tunneling in 138
183 is more Seniwac...
264 is explaining the seniwac case, rather well
284 seems like lip service to be honest.
Oh hey, she votes the claimed scum.
374 reads like a fair post. You gotta admit she justifies her tunneling well
435 is a nice excuse to ignore sodium for reals.
Don't like 557...but yeah...
Ok...I actually lean horribly tunnelly town here...but I can't say I'd be too opposed to her lynch since she does look bad at some key points...
(Tastes like eggo...sorry)
But yeah, ##Vote Edible
Vote count updated to this post.
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Agh, you know what, forget it. I should've just said this at the start of the day.
I claim Remilia Scarlet, Phase-Delayed Nightvig. I shot Kitten4U last night, so she's dead at the end of the day. I did so because I expected a wagon on me after I ended up defending scum yesterday.
So unless she turns out to be GF or something and is NK-immune, we may as well be considering a different target. Edible and Pesco are the two I'm probably considering the most right now, but I want to hear a little from Edible before I consider it.
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Agh, you know what, forget it. I should've just said this at the start of the day.
I claim Remilia Scarlet, Phase-Delayed Nightvig. I shot Kitten4U last night, so she's dead at the end of the day. I did so because I expected a wagon on me after I ended up defending scum yesterday.
So unless she turns out to be GF or something and is NK-immune, we may as well be considering a different target. Edible and Pesco are the two I'm probably considering the most right now, but I want to hear a little from Edible before I consider it.
No reason to not believe you really at this juncture. It's not like gaining "one more day" as scum would help you much.
(also, I feel vindicated for flipping my read on you. Yay rereads!)
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A night vig eh? Just makes you wonder what Scum have got to counter that. If K4U is the only Scum left, she could be a bulletproof. But a Scum Doc suddenly seems like a decent possibility although I assume it would have to work at Night. And if we assume in this scenario that there are 2 Scum left and it is Serp and Kitten4U, the Night Vig is going to fail because Serp only has one target to protect which is Kitten4U (unless Scum Serp borrowed Scum Kitten's roleclaim which doesn't seem all that likely).
I'm not sure how much of this could be a Scum Gambit by Rou (please tell me it's not a Town gambit) as the only way for Kitten to actually avoid being killed without Rou flat out lying would be if they premediated a protect somewhere and assuming Rou/Kitten also have a Scum Doc between them which runs counter to Rou's Night Vig claim because it would assume someone else has to have a Night Vig or be an SK or something like that. Yay run-on sentences. It would just delay the inevitable and we'd almost lynch K4U for certain in Day 4.
Meh, to make sure though, we'd have to not lynch K4U today. And all this does make Serp a little suspicious as he came out quickly with the protection information, but has no case yet even though I'm sure he noticed the quick wagon on K4U. So I guess the point is that I'm leaning on Rou telling the truth, but maybe we should ignore his shot and just lynch K4U anyways and someone can check Serp at Night if possible if K4U flips Scum and the game doesn't end.
The other bit of unorthodox strategy just off the top of my head, is that we could lynch Rou today to confirm whether he is a Town Night Vig. And if K4U doesn't die with him at the end of Day 3, that means she's protected somehow and Serp already said he protected me. So then we'd know either there's another protective role out there, or Serp lied in some way. I'm not for lynching someone who looks Townie as this claim really doesn't seem to make sense from a Scum point of view, but we have a discretionary mislynch to spare and it reasonably could clear up the offchance of Serp being a Scum Doc. The whole point of doing this would be if we are absolutely certain K4U is Scum and to make certain that we can find out whether she has Serp as a scumbuddy and she will die either at the end of Day 3 along with Rou or we lynch her Day 4 and Serp Day 5 if the game doesn't end. Let's see what people think.
The safest method now that I think about it is to probably lynch K4U anyways as I still think her as-is defense is not enough to clear her. If she flips Town, then all of the above is invalidated slightly and we can start anew on Day 4 with more information about Serp whether he protected someone again or died.
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I guess I can also point out that Scum Serp could have protected himself rather than Scum K4U so K4U could theoretically still die from the Vig with Scum Serp still being a buddy. This depends on what a Scum K4U would flip. And all of the above is under the assumption that Scum were given a power to balance out the possibility of a Town Night Vig which we cannot assume is guaranteed in this setup. This whole thing could get quite confusing so yea, maybe it's best to go conservative and lynch a person for scumminess rather than setup shenanigans anyways.
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I'll point out that besides the fact that I have to wait a phase for the kill to actually be carried out, I don't seem to have a limited amount of charges.
I'm considering taking requests for a vig target tonight, but that might be risky given that people are suggesting there might be a scum doc.
I'd expect that since we've already got a vig and a doc at the least (whether the Serp claim is true, or in the unlikely case that Umu was the doc) that there are 4 scum in the setup for balance. There might be a GF, but that's usually only present for cop protection, so it's iffy. Suppose it comes down to how much we think the Jan is worth.
But anyway, I agree we should lynch people on scuminess alone. I'm still basically fuming at Edible for his end-day gambit. Given that Sodium was at L-1 for a while, and Edible had already explicitly said he didn't believe the claim, why did he even try the gambit? It feels like an effort from Scum!Edible to make something useful of the Sodium lynch by putting himself at odds with a flipped scum.
##Unvote: K4U
Vote: Edible
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Imma have to disagree with the DocYoumu theory and all the ScumSerp theories that stem from it. The Janitor role does not tell Scum what the killed party's role is; it hides the flip from everyone. With no Night 0, Scum would have no way of knowing Youmu was Doc unless one of two things happened:
- Scum have a rolecop, investigated him Night 1, and Zakeri screwed up and gave them the rolecop return before they made their NK choice. I find this highly unlikely.
- Scum were handed a list of who is what at the beginning of the game. Possible, I guess, but I would like to think any mod would realize combining this with a Janitor is obscenely broken.
Occam's Razor says Serp is what he says he is and that Kiro was attacked last night. There's nothing on the table to suggest otherwise, outside of the lack of a rule stating scum must kill at night. @Mod: Are scum forced to kill?
I've answered this before, but no, no one is forced to use their night actions and there will be no result if a person with a night action does not send one in. This includes the scum nightkill.
Similiarly I'm not inclined we're dealing with anything but a lone scum. Suggesting 9/4 is silly for reasons that are best described as "Day 3 LYLO". A doc and a claimed delayed vig are not enough reason for me to believe 9/4 is the case, especially since the vig can actually speed up the process to potential LYLO on Day 2.
Roukan was admittedly on my radar given he avoided both major cases yesterday and went to Edible instead of Sodium after the Lie Detector But Actually Not chicanery, but I'm willing to give his claim a chance to work itself out. ##Unvote: Kitten4U
Should we get a Night 3 and Kay Four Ewe survives is somehow, my vote gets slapped right back on her tomorrow.
Despite my belief that Seniwac shouldn't ever play again, I don't think he's scum given how the trains have shaken down. This leaves me Pesco, Alice, UK and Edible as viable vote targets for me today. I'm going to mull them all over and vote for one in my next post. Based on what I remember from previous thoughts, Edible is my most likely vote, but I'm having gutjerk reactions toward pesco and UK, so we'll see.
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The only times I've ever seen a Janitor role were during games over at one of those turbo-speed Mafia sites. There, Jans were the only ones to learn the role of the hit target, though it came with the disadvantage that they couldn't tell anyone until the next night. It was a 1-shot Jan, as well.
So I suppose it doesn't help that the role was sort of ambiguous. >_>
And Kilga, Pesco asked earlier (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1918.msg78570#msg78570). Scum are allowed to forego the NK if they so desire, throwing us into a wonderful world of WIFOM. >_>
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*Similiarly I'm not inclined to believe we're dealing with anything but a lone scum.
The only Janitors I've ever worked with were not told the identity of their target.
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I see I forgot to vote before I went to class.
##Vote Edible
Mod already confirmed that scum may choose not to kill. I asked that yesterday. Optimal scum play given the situation would still be to kill someone. That alone should be enough to clear doubts on Serp and Kiro.
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You have no charges on your Vig Rou? That's a ridiculous oversight by Zakeri if he forgot to mention it. Not sure the mod would actually answer a specific question about a person's role. Or your role is more powerful than I could have possibly imagined.
Otherwise, you sure you're not an SK??? But then, you going through the trouble of roleclaiming early like that and mentioning the fact you think you have multiple charges is pretty damn gutsy if you are an SK. Argh, confusion!
Cut by Kilga's post: Now that you mention it, 4 Scum in a 13 player game does seem kinda ridiculous. 3 Scum and 1 SK is worse. 2 Scum and 1 SK? Maybe... I think I need a fresh reread and a new pair of pants.
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Yea Occam's Razor again says Kiro was attacked last night over scum forgoing their kill.
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Kiro: SKRoukan would have been better served voting Sodium than Edible yesterday.
OKAY REALLY NEED TO DO THAT REREAD
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I've reread my role PM again to double-check, and the only reference it makes to any sort of limit is that I can only do it once per night.
Then again, considering that the last game I remember Zak running was Moriya Shrine Mafia AKA THIRTY SECOND LONG NIGHT PHASES this probably isn't too surprising. >_>
Would like to hear Edible actually comment on the case on him. >_>
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It was 6 seconds for the night phase.
The worse six seconds of my life, every time, too.
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I've caught up with the thread. As I said yesterday, I fully understand the case against me and there's very little defense outside of bad play.
If Kitten is dead tonight, and Rou has claimed to kill her by phase-delay (and you thought I had a weird role?), then I am far and away the obvious lynch for today. I'm not going to delay the game further.
I claim Tenshi Hinanai, vanilla townie. Town has nothing to lose from lynching me, and everything to gain.
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For what it's worth, though, I don't think Kitten is scum. She would have made a conscious, solo decision to lynch Kiro, who is a classic NK target for old-school scum around these parts. Either she's a much better judge of character than I'm giving her credit for, or someone with more experience here is scum.
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The "Ice Tea" votecount
Kitten4u: Kilgamayan, Alice Margatroid, Kiro, Roukanken (L-4)
Edible?: Kitten4U, UncertainKitten, Roukanken, Pesco (L-2)
Roukanken: UncertainKitten (L-6)
a little over 60 hours remains.
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You do know the old games are linked in the archive thread right?
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Edible: Roleclaim while nowhere near L-1? Check. No attempt to defend self? Check. Explicitly trying to get himself lynched? Check.
...Mod, confirm/deny the potential existence of a Fool/Jester, please?
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You're reading too much into it. It's D3 and Town has one loss thus far, even assuming u? was town. More information can be gleaned from me dead than alive, and they can stand to mislynch once or twice especially if something useful comes out of it.
@pesco: It's a moot point, if Kitten is Already Dead (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhjpsGS9hUM).
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Edible: Roleclaim while nowhere near L-1? Check. No attempt to defend self? Check. Explicitly trying to get himself lynched? Check.
...Mod, confirm/deny the potential existence of a Fool/Jester, please?
Are you an idiot? (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1918.msg74556#msg74556)
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If you're Townie, why not at least give some opinions on the other players while you're at it? Current reads, suspicions, anything, but don't sit there saying 'LYNCH ME PLZ'.
Pesco: Sorry, missed it. >_> It wasn't on the front page, and remember I wasn't really around until page 10. T_T
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The question asks how you think Rou should be judged by others when he's in a similar position to yours.
Sorry, I thought that did answer the question. I think he's town so he should be judged as such? If this is asking what people should do then questioning would probably be good. I don't think we should lynch him though.
Do you consider Sodium's effort too concentrated to make it a possiblity of bussing?
Yes. It also looks like he was trying to get KGH lynched instead of Zengar.
Firstly, the 'it makes sense but I don't agree with it' feels slightly like cheerleading, which Sodium just proved is probably a scumtell. >_>
How could I be cheerleading when I was adamantly against his lynch? Seriously, I specifically said that I would not support a Sodium lynch.
Secondly, using 'he misread Zengar's vote' as a defense makes no sense because she even admits it makes him look worse, yet not being able to read apparently clears him? The reason I held faith in the daytalk point was because I thought that if he was scum daytalk would be pretty obvious, i.e. it's a mistake that Town would be more likely to make. I don't understand where K4U's basis is on this defense at all - he made a mistake, therefore he's Town?
Not being able to read made me think that he did misread/not read the rules so he really didn't know that scum could day talk. The fact that he consistantly misread things made me think it wasn't faked. I thought I was pretty clear on that.
I shot Kitten4U last night, so she's dead at the end of the day. I did so because I expected a wagon on me after I ended up defending scum yesterday.
I'll be dying tonight then if I'm not lynched if you're telling the truth (which I think you are). I'm not bullet proof or anything.
Keeping my vote on Edible.
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Edible
Useless for most of Day 1, even going so far as to dick around in the middle of the day, dropping nothing more than a "null tell" assessment of Seniwac's claim before vanishing again. Swingvotes Zengar.
Day 2. Votes Serp for reasons I talked about not liking here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1918.msg77971#msg77971). Approach similar to Sodium's approach to Zengar on Day 1. Lie Detector But Actually Not shenanigans speak for themselves.
Ninjad by a defeated attitude and a VT claim. Changes nothing.
Pesco
To be honest, the only reason my gut is jerking toward him is because like half of the meaningful posts I've made have had him follow up right behind me with a "me too!" sentiment. Otherwise he's made quality posts pretty much all game. Can't really fault him for much of anything. Most likely town.
Really needs to stop reacting to people finding him suspicious for playing well, though. If you didn't want to lie in this bed you shouldn't have made it in the first place. >_>
UK
Has had a nasty habit of treading the IIoA line all game, but she's been right twice and her Roukanken case today is a good one, so. Probably town.
Alice
Irritating lack of posts is irritating. This is par for the course but that doesn't make it any better. Day 2 bus jump onto Sodium not very likely but certainly plausible. Overall null read and dark horse scum pick if all of Edible, K4U and Roukan flip town.
##Vote: Edible (L-1)
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EBWOP: Forgot to attach a "Potential bus" to that "Swingvotes Zengar" comment in the Edible section.
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@Kilga: Can I assume from that statement you going after Rou tomorrow? I'm pretty sure his claim is bogus - or specifically, I'm pretty sure he's not aligned with town. "Town nightvig with unlimited kills" translates to "scum or SK" to me.
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I've been in games with limitless vig kills before (though they were limited to one per night). In fact, I watched one once where 3 of the 4 vig kills were scum. It was a very impressive performance.
I would pursue K4U before Roukan.
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I guess I can also point out that Scum Serp could have protected himself rather than Scum K4U so K4U could theoretically still die from the Vig with Scum Serp still being a buddy. This depends on what a Scum K4U would flip. And all of the above is under the assumption that Scum were given a power to balance out the possibility of a Town Night Vig which we cannot assume is guaranteed in this setup. This whole thing could get quite confusing so yea, maybe it's best to go conservative and lynch a person for scumminess rather than setup shenanigans anyways.
Why does scum need a power to balance against a town night vig? Especially since Rou seems to be one shot (clarify?)
Hell, I don't give bonus protective roles when there is a vig around. It'd be like "What the hell"
Not sure if I like this from Kiro...
I'll point out that besides the fact that I have to wait a phase for the kill to actually be carried out, I don't seem to have a limited amount of charges.
Oh ok. No target N1? You people are too gunshy :(
I'd expect that since we've already got a vig and a doc at the least (whether the Serp claim is true, or in the unlikely case that Umu was the doc) that there are 4 scum in the setup for balance.
A vig and a doc? Geez that's a tame amount of power roles, vs. a janitor, goon, and god knows what else.
I'd argue 4 scum would balance it WAY too far in scum's favor. I mean, that's 9:4, you barely get two mislynches, and then we have a vig in the situation? Yeah no. I'm pretty sure we got three scum.
Similiarly I'm not inclined we're dealing with anything but a lone scum. Suggesting 9/4 is silly for reasons that are best described as "Day 3 LYLO". A doc and a claimed delayed vig are not enough reason for me to believe 9/4 is the case, especially since the vig can actually speed up the process to potential LYLO on Day 2.
Well, I recall lylo with nine alive in my game, but that was just crazy :P, and a situation where EVERYONE fucks up.
You have no charges on your Vig Rou? That's a ridiculous oversight by Zakeri if he forgot to mention it. Not sure the mod would actually answer a specific question about a person's role. Or your role is more powerful than I could have possibly imagined.
It's not really that powerful though. The first shot doesn't go off til N2, and odds are you are either in lylo or close to it by N3. Two, maybe three town directed kills at most. Vigs are swingy as hell. Hell, I've seen night repeating vigs in MS set ups, so I don't see it as far fetched.
Cut by Kilga's post: Now that you mention it, 4 Scum in a 13 player game does seem kinda ridiculous. 3 Scum and 1 SK is worse. 2 Scum and 1 SK? Maybe... I think I need a fresh reread and a new pair of pants.
I'm suddenly reminded of my game. 3:1:8. I don't think that's worse really, given enough protective roles and town advantages.
UK
Has had a nasty habit of treading the IIoA line all game, but she's been right twice and her Roukanken case today is a good one, so. Probably town.
The case on why Rou is town? And why Edible is probably scum? Really?
@Kilga: Can I assume from that statement you going after Rou tomorrow? I'm pretty sure his claim is bogus - or specifically, I'm pretty sure he's not aligned with town. "Town nightvig with unlimited kills" translates to "scum or SK" to me.
Am I the only one who would consider this plausible as a town role? (Despite the fact I probably wouldn't put it in a mini?)
I've been in games with limitless vig kills before (though they were limited to one per night). In fact, I watched one once where 3 of the 4 vig kills were scum. It was a very impressive performance.
I would pursue K4U before Roukan.
Thank you Kilga.
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Hurm. I missed you changing your mind on Roukan. Noted.
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Hurm. I missed you changing your mind on Roukan. Noted.
And the fact that I have a case on Edible...
But whatev. If it weren't for your early Sodium vote I'd probably be voting you.
I think you were early on Zengar as well.
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No, I didn't target anyone N1. I honestly didn't have enough concrete suspicions at that point to be confident about killing. >_>
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The "Mod does votecounts more often than he eats" votecount
Kitten4u: Kilgamayan, Alice Margatroid, Kiro, Roukanken (L-4)
Edible?: Kitten4U, UncertainKitten, Roukanken, Pesco, Kilgamayan (L-1)
Roukanken: UncertainKitten (L-6)
Edible? is at L-1
a 59 hours remain.
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No, I didn't target anyone N1. I honestly didn't have enough concrete suspicions at that point to be confident about killing. >_>
I never let that stop me :P.
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Damn, this got confusing and perhaps a little too fast for my tastes.
So, Kitten says she's not bulletproof. So her not dying would definitely mean something's fishy at least in regards to her, Rou or maybe Serp. At this point, it is probably worth testing out Rou's claim along with the suggestion that 4 scum in the game is not likely.
##Unvote Kitten4U
I can see Rou trying to leave Sodium alive if he were SK because he may have figured out that with SK Rou in the game, there are probably only 2 Scum (gonna eat my words at the cut below) and he needs their help a little to whittle down Town numbers. It could also explain why there have not been two NKs this game yet because he could have held back Night 1 and by Night 2, he could have reasoned he's the only anti-Townie left alive and tried a kill. I'm worried mainly about his relative carelessness of not privately confirming with Zakeri if he was one-shot or not. I think Rou as a Townie vig would have been respected his power role and made sure first.
As for Edible claiming VT now and kinda throwing in the towel, that's kinda anti-Townie too. I can see the Townie benefit of doing such, but it just doesn't strike me as optimal play from either alignment. At least force people to take a stance on voting you even if you feel you have to die. You intentionally stuck your neck out with that Day 2 gambit and now you're just going to fold. I could see Scum giving up Day 3 after being foiled by a possible Town Doc claim, but if you're really Scum and not wanting to delay the inevitable, then I don't see why you're not willing to claim Scum now. You either have a buddy left or you're truly a Townie.
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Thoughts about others: Kilga is a bit odd for not being on the Zengar wagon at the end of Day 1 despite getting on that train early. Sure KGH did something idiotic, but not having a vote there is not having a vote there. He also switched off Sodium late Day 2 after Edible's gambit. Granted I did the same thing and pretty much agreed it was the best course of action at the time before Serp's roleclaim, in the end, it's still a vote off a Scum wagon. If anything, I think Kilga's the dark horse for Scum seeing the gameplay of his 2 buddies, almost forced to superbus both (without actually following through on it except for the very end of Sodium) and try to win it alone. Factor in his vote for Edible today and if Edible flips Town, there you go.
Pesco switched off Sodium for KGH near the end of Day 2. I don't really have much of a read on him, a bit of a follower for most of the game with the exception of switching to KGH at the end of Day 2.
UK is looking fine at the moment, her voting history and cases look decent. Alice's case on Sodium in Day 2 looks ok too, but he should post more and can't really be underestimated as possible Scum. KGH is... KGH, probably Townie. I'm not sure of my feelings on the Edible lynch primarily that even if he flips Town, I don't know how much we'd truly gain from it if he could have at least tried to pursue a case, any case with more gusto. All of the above was typed without a fresh reread or a new pair of pants.
Cut by UK: Lol. So I almost made the mistake in calling 3 Scum and 1 SK iffy again. Christ, I really do blank slate my mind in between Mafia games. Given all that, K4U, Rou, and to me, Kilga are definitely on the to-watch list for Day 4. I'll think about where to tack on my vote once I do a real reread of the non-primary targets today.
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I'm worried mainly about his relative carelessness of not privately confirming with Zakeri if he was one-shot or not. I think Rou as a Townie vig would have been respected his power role and made sure first.
I said it specified 'once per night'. 'Per' implies it can be used multiple nights and there was no mention anywhere else of a limit on charges.
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Kiro: You are suggesting that, as scum, I let one buddy claim scum instead of fakeclaiming anything and then turned around and slammed my other buddy with a solid flip-based case the next day. This is absolutely preposterous.
I refute the obvious response of "who would let their buddy claim scum" with "anyone that wasn't around when it happened, as well as lesser players who wouldn't think to cover that base".
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Kiro: You are suggesting that, as scum, I let one buddy claim scum instead of fakeclaiming anything and then turned around and slammed my other buddy with a solid flip-based case the next day. This is absolutely preposterous.
The first part isn't solid. Who said they were ALLOWED to claim scum. They could have said fuck it and done it, leading to facepalmage.
Second part is somewhat fair. Though you jumped off the wagon for KGH at some point.
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Well, things aren't always in your control as UK has mentioned. If you were Scum with Zengar and Sodium, it was also your judgment call to make if Zengar was salvagable by the time umu and I had dropped a vote on him in Day 1 and after the Day 1/Night 1 flips, whether Sodium was also salvagable. But you have some Townie points, mainly in that you got on Sodium right at the start of Day 2. Just gotta consider both the good and the bad. I see Pesco similarly, but you'd be the tougher one to catch imo so I highlighted it. *shrug* With Kitten, Rou, and Edible under some form of scrutiny/pending action, if none of them are Scum, then we gotta go from there.
I have past regrets in Mafia where I don't say everything that I could have so I just come out and say it whenever I can. I'm not going to get around to that reread till late tonight.
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Alright, let's go through this in order. I don't think that Khorneish Game Hen is at all clear. The only reason his own actions are hard to pin to either Sodium or Zengar is that they're so anti-town and full of WIFOM that it's impossible to connect him to anyone. When Sodium brought him to L-2, he was almost literally the only case out there - anything else would've drawn a huge amount of attention to Sodium if KGH had been lynched and flipped scum. On Day 2, KGH and Sodium were really the only two likely lynches, so if they were both scum, their only hope would be to distance themselves from each other as much as possible. Too much WIFOM to see through here as well.
Being on the wrong bandwagon only goes so far as a scumtell, so I'm not inclined to lynch Kitten4u based on that point alone. Heck, I preferred a KGH lynch to a Zengar one on the first day, and on the second, I may well have swung towards a KGH lynch too if I hadn't had my role PM to prove Sodium a liar. Her scumhunting looks sincere, so I'm leaning misguided town here, which puts her above some others on my lynch list, but not on top of it. If Roukanken can be believed, we should have her flip this evening anyway, so I wouldn't vote her now.
I don't see scum giving up a night kill at this point, so as far as I'm concerned, they tried to kill Kiro last night, and that pretty much clears Kiro to me. This is on top of his good position in getting Zengar lynched D1.
I was considering Roukanken suspicious going into D3, but his roleclaim changes everything. If we get Kitten's flip this evening, then he's at least telling the truth about his ability. A scum... delayed nightvig, or whatever, seems unlikely, but that leaves SK open as a possibility. If we get another scum flip and the game doesn't end, then that makes Roukanken a likely lynch.
Pesco looks good for his position on Zengar D1, but aside from that, there's not much to implicate him either way. Definitely not a priority lynch.
Kilga's in the same boat, as far as I'm concerned. He took a hardline stance against Sodium for most of the day, but then wavered the other way after Edible's gambit. Now, I don't think that Edible's gambit should've convinced anyone, so this might actually make him more suspicious, but I don't consider him a priority lynch either.
Suwako didn't do anything to prove his towniness on D1, but Alice was anti-Sodium for all of D2. However, the fact that he didn't get a chance to respond to Edible's gambit or even Sodium's roleclaim means this isn't as strong a tell as it could be. When a chronic lurker replaces an inactive, there's not much information to be had.
Edible wasn't particularly pro-town even before his gambit, and the gambit itself introduces tons of WIFOM. Keep in mind that it almost worked to save Sodium - the voting was swinging back towards KGH before my counterclaim, and that swing was led by Edible himself. If KGH is town, then I think Edible is almost certainly scum.
UncertainKitten is either crazy good at bussing, or else she's town.
##Vote: Khorneish Game Hen
I think he's our best lynch for today. Edible's giving up doesn't come across as a scum tactic to me, and if it is, then we'll probably lynch him tomorrow. Roukanken should use his delayed nightvig on someone else (and not tell us who that player is 'till tomorrow). There's no reason not to - as things stand, two kills tonight won't bring us to LyLo any sooner than one kill would.
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Alright, let's go through this in order. I don't think that Khorneish Game Hen is at all clear. The only reason his own actions are hard to pin to either Sodium or Zengar is that they're so anti-town and full of WIFOM that it's impossible to connect him to anyone. When Sodium brought him to L-2, he was almost literally the only case out there - anything else would've drawn a huge amount of attention to Sodium if KGH had been lynched and flipped scum. On Day 2, KGH and Sodium were really the only two likely lynches, so if they were both scum, their only hope would be to distance themselves from each other as much as possible. Too much WIFOM to see through here as well.
There is still one issue with that though, and that's that dismissing his behavior as newbtown was also a reasonably popular opinion. I'm just not sure why Sodium would want to bus his buddy when that was a valid option as well. Coupled with the fact that it looked like he was pulling for a KGH lynch over a Zengar lynch and he only switched to Zengar when it was clear that he was going to be D1's lynch is making me think that KGH really is town. Only thing that's making me think it could be possible (even though I still think it's unlikely) is that Sodium voted for UK for ignoring KGH's VT claim instead of voting KGH for making the claim.
Though, KGH hasn't posted at all today has he? Still leaning town on him, but that's kind of annoying.
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Well, things aren't always in your control as UK has mentioned. If you were Scum with Zengar and Sodium, it was also your judgment call to make if Zengar was salvagable by the time umu and I had dropped a vote on him in Day 1 and after the Day 1/Night 1 flips, whether Sodium was also salvagable.
Going down Theory Road once again and trying to examine Zengar's actions as if I was his partner.
Ignoring a case where Zengar would have flat out refused to listen to me and just give up on his own (which is possible I suppose but not something I think you guys should base a case on), what you're proposing is that I determined Zengar to be 100% unsalvagable to the point where I told him to claim scum instead of trying some last-ditch effort such as a cop/doc fakeclaim - that I had chosen no chance over a tiny chance. Do you really see me going this route? Even for a "just so I could produce this argument" path down the line?
Serp: I think I would much rather see Seniwac get targeted tonight by Roukan than a lynch of him today. I also don't think it matters if we publicize Roukan target ideas, because the remaining scum would have to give up their NK to be able to do anything about it if they even can. Alice would be my primary choice, though, with Seniwac at #2 (assuming an Edible lynch).
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There is still one issue with that though, and that's that dismissing his behavior as newbtown was also a reasonably popular opinion. I'm just not sure why Sodium would want to bus his buddy when that was a valid option as well.
That's true, but at the time, it looked like KGH was going to get lynched anyway, so scum might as well jump on to get town cred after the flip. Supposing a scum KGH, if Sodium hadn't jumped on when he did, and if KGH had still been lynched, then Sodium would be inviting the same sort of pickle that you're in now.
Ignoring a case where Zengar would have flat out refused to listen to me and just give up on his own (which is possible I suppose but not something I think you guys should base a case on), what you're proposing is that I determined Zengar to be 100% unsalvagable to the point where I told him to claim scum instead of trying some last-ditch effort such as a cop/doc fakeclaim - that I had chosen no chance over a tiny chance. Do you really see me going this route? Even for a "just so I could produce this argument" path down the line?
Couldn't Sodium have said exactly this in his own defense yesterday?
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Perhaps, but would you believe him?
Yes, this is appealing to reputation. No, I don't care, because honestly it's a bit insulting that people would think I'd let that shit fly. >_>
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@mod: Prod way overdue on Seniwac
If you're lining Edible up to be lynched tomorrow, why not today?
The people who piled onto K4U at day start didn't answer this. Do it now.
FTR
The "Frozen Tortellini" votecount
Kitten4u: Kilgamayan, Alice Margatroid, Kiro, Roukanken (L-2)
Edible?: Kitten4U, UncertainKitten (L-4)
Roukanken: UncertainKitten (L-6)
It's interesting to also note that Rou voted for K4U when he's claimed to vig her. What's going on here? The post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1918.msg80117#msg80117) reads like an effort to get a lynch. Why do that when you've guaranteed her death another way? My exchange with him sounded like he wanted a straight up lynch.
Noticed Alice's post at the start of today when following up on the votes. No opinion on Edible?
Being on the wrong bandwagon only goes so far as a scumtell, so I'm not inclined to lynch Kitten4u based on that point alone. Heck, I preferred a KGH lynch to a Zengar one on the first day, and on the second, I may well have swung towards a KGH lynch too if I hadn't had my role PM to prove Sodium a liar. Her scumhunting looks sincere, so I'm leaning misguided town here, which puts her above some others on my lynch list, but not on top of it. If Roukanken can be believed, we should have her flip this evening anyway, so I wouldn't vote her now.
Like I asked earlier, K4U and Rou shared similar faults. Both should be judged equally on that measure.
Ignoring a case where Zengar would have flat out refused to listen to me and just give up on his own (which is possible I suppose but not something I think you guys should base a case on), what you're proposing is that I determined Zengar to be 100% unsalvagable to the point where I told him to claim scum instead of trying some last-ditch effort such as a cop/doc fakeclaim - that I had chosen no chance over a tiny chance. Do you really see me going this route? Even for a "just so I could produce this argument" path down the line?
Delving into a bit of personality speculation, I'd say Zengar isn't like UK's temperment. UK is someone who would be more likely to ditch the plan, Zengar being new at this game too is more likely to follow whatever guidance he gets.
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Augh have been falling back in this game more than expected. Anyway, I'm very wary of an informational lynch at this point, it's not really needed when we can do a proper one instead. My opinion on Edible is actually that he's Town! Or at least I don't think he's scum for his gambit. I think some of the other shit he's pulled like active lurking and general suspicion is bad, but I can see Town-Edible thinking that such a gambit would have been a Good Idea(TM) of how to determine if Sodium Selenate was actually a Townie Doctor(TM) or not.
Not sure what to think of K4U. Going to do a proper catchup in the morning when I'm not falling asleep.
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Looped UFO's Stage 4 theme while doing the reread. I think it made it much more bearable, damn this theme is awesome. Will cut to the chase and:
##Vote Alice Margatroid
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To review Suwako first: Suwako votes Serp in #110 asking why Serp is voting KGH for the roleclaim when Serp's answer at the time looks like a joke vote. Seems a bit overreactionary. Also preemptively answers a question from KGH that's directed at UK. May be worth something, maybe not. Suwako's #247 with some flips on hand actually looks really bad as he dismisses Zengar as nubTown and would "still go for a Hen lynch" but votes UK for picking Zengar because he's the easier target. It's not about being the easy target, but being more likely to be Scum which UK said earlier. In other words, a bad case.
As for Alice, his only real contribution is #398. Lots of recap in it, but at the end of it all, votes Sodium with a relatively simple reason; that he cheerleaded the Zengar wagon on. It could be argued that others did to some extent as well. So mentioning that alone doesn't feel like it's strong enough as you don't expand on it much more despite your observations of Zengar above your vote. So, it looks like a lot of effort, but probably would have received more scrutiny if it was the first vote on Sodium and not the 4th or whatever. Actually, Sodium himself seems to sum it up the best:
Alice: You have a lot of fun remixing my name, don't you? >_>
...
And Alice's replacement catchup post has nothing new! But it's a replacement catchup post.
I'm not seeing enough effort from your case on Sodium. And hell, Sodium spent a few posts waiting for Alice to post and that's all he decides to say about Alice? I don't believe he ever mentions Alice again. Doesn't want to argue back with a possible scum buddy eh?
---
My notes on everyone else are kinda more limited. To address the non-Sodium voters first: K4U is worrying, but it seems we can wait to see if she dies first. Rou also shouldn't be lynched today as I just think his making that kind of a claim doesn't fit from a Mafian's point of view. SK maybe, but that can wait. And my opinion on Edible is still the same as earlier in that I'm uneasy about it. Giving up like that does increase the chances of him dying significantly which as the potential last Mafian is just gg. Maybe he still will have to, but I'll push the Alice case over his.
For the rest: KGH could still be Scum, but Sodium does go to some serious lengths to get him lynched, beginning in #144 voting him to L-2. He even mentions Zengar a bit while doing so; and it is not certain if he had noticed umu voting Zengar 4 minutes before his post. This of course continues into Day 2.
Concerns about Kilga are still there, but on reread, he makes a lot of good posts. It's really all agreeable and I mirror them in many ways so it does look unreasonable I could push this lynch at all. We'd have to be at or near LYLO and the rest of K4U/Rou/Edible/Alice cleared or dead for it to be considered. UK looks just as good if not better than Kilga for mostly similar reasons (good points and sticking on to the proper lynch wagons better).
Pesco is a follower on votes which is slightly troubling. But he gets decent points in for #160. Also one of the first to take a good look at Zengar's reasoning for voting Serp. The scumhunting effort does look like it's there although not quite as much as Kilga or UK, but more than Alice, especially at more swingy times in the game. The switch from Sodium to KGH is a blemish along with his reasoning using a numbers comparison that really don't make much sense. Probably put him in the middle of the pack after Alice and possibly Edible if Town ends up resorting to that.
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It's interesting to also note that Rou voted for K4U when he's claimed to vig her. What's going on here? The post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1918.msg80117#msg80117) reads like an effort to get a lynch. Why do that when you've guaranteed her death another way? My exchange with him sounded like he wanted a straight up lynch.
My initial thought wsa that if K4U was lynched anyway my vig might still stay quiet and I wouldn't have to worry about being a potential NK target. Later I realised that we probably had enough leverage to afford multiple kills and came out with the claim.
Augh have been falling back in this game more than expected. Anyway, I'm very wary of an informational lynch at this point, it's not really needed when we can do a proper one instead.
i don't like your lynch but im not going to bother suggesting anyone else
I'm not completely against an Alice lynch given his massive lack of content, but I will point out that he was actually present on both scum wagons. Sodium's attempt to discredit Alice's post also muddies the water.
More importantly, where the hell is Seniwac seriously
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The "Silly Sleep Schedual" votecount
Kitten4u: Kilgamayan, Alice Margatroid, Kiro, Roukanken (L-5)
Edible?: Kitten4U, UncertainKitten, Roukanken, Pesco, Kilgamayan (L-1)
Roukanken: UncertainKitten (L-6)
Khorneish Game Hen: Serpentarius (L-5)
Alice Margatroid: Kiro (L-5)
Edible? is still at L-1
@mod: Prod way overdue on Seniwac
Not really. According to my ruleset, he has until about 11:00 P.M. EST tonight before he needs to be prodded. A Quick overview of his recent posts shows he hasn't been on since before the phase change either. I will stay on top of this, however.
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I'm sure Seniwac has posted elsewhere and is ignoring this place.
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Delving into a bit of personality speculation, I'd say Zengar isn't like UK's temperment. UK is someone who would be more likely to ditch the plan, Zengar being new at this game too is more likely to follow whatever guidance he gets.
But if I ditch the plan it sure as hell wouldn't be to claim scum :P.
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Not much new to say before I head out for most of the day. I wouldn't object at all to an Alice lynch - he's my #2 choice today behind Edible given K4U is theoretically toast and Roukan's ability can be exploited to town's advantage (and will be really easy to call him on if he's lying).
Roukan: Alice was not on the Zengar train - Suwako's vote sat squarely on UK when Day 1 ended.
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Roukan: Alice was not on the Zengar train - Suwako's vote sat squarely on UK when Day 1 ended.
Agh, forgot that he replaced in for Suwako. -_-
For some reason I had it in my head that he was on Zengar. Never mind, I'm less nervous about targeting him now. Still think that since we've gone this far it's a pretty terrible idea not to lynch Edible, though.
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Roukan: Alice was not on the Zengar train - Suwako's vote sat squarely on UK when Day 1 ended.
Agh, forgot that he replaced in for Suwako. -_-
For some reason I had it in my head that he was on Zengar. Never mind, I'm less nervous about targeting him now. Still think that since we've gone this far it's a pretty terrible idea not to lynch Edible, though.
I hope you're not going to tell us at some stage that you forgot that you replaced someone too.
Looks like steamroll for the win at this rate.
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I'll stick my head in again after being out for most of last night and spending all day today waiting for new tires on my car.
Would it make more sense for Rou to target me tonight and lynch Alice, or lynch me and target Alice?
@Pesco: I don't really consider Rou having replaced for anyone, given Chen never posted.
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Would it make more sense for Rou to target me tonight and lynch Alice, or lynch me and target Alice?
Shouldn't make any difference unless one of you is BP/GF. Based on that I don't like how you brought it up.
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Shouldn't make any difference unless one of you is BP/GF. Based on that I don't like how you brought it up.
That is why I brought it up - I hate to introduce even more unnecessary WIFOM, but I know I'm neither bulletproof nor a godfather, yet my demise will assist town in the end either way.
Rou, does your ability work if you're NKed? Have you confirmed it with Zakeri?
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That is why I brought it up - I hate to introduce even more unnecessary WIFOM, but I know I'm neither bulletproof nor a godfather, yet my demise will assist town in the end either way.
Here's the thing - we don't. And we can hardly take your word for it.
Rou, does your ability work if you're NKed? Have you confirmed it with Zakeri?
I assumed so, but if you want I'll confirm.
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Here's the thing - we don't. And we can hardly take your word for it.
Reasonable point. I guess it doesn't matter in the end.
And thanks for confirming.
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Mod confirmation - people die when I am killed.[/shirou]
So yes, it still hits even if I die on the phase I use it.
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No Vote Change.
about 25 or 26 hours left in the day.
Seniwac has been prodded.
I'm giving him until day is resolved to announce intention to vote.
if natural deadline occurs without a post, I'm much more likely to modkill him than find a replacement, since replacements at this late in the game are headaches for everyone.
If I do wind up modkilling him, it will not come with punishments to his team aside from obviously having one less body on his team's side.
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Oh man Mafia
Don't like Edible case. Don't see why Scumdible would've said "no result" instead of superbussing. Feel he's town due to his intent on the fakeclaim, even though his conclusions were false. Tossing in the towel doesn't ring any bells on my totally deficient scumalarm. "LYNCH ME PLZ" doesn't seem totally scummy and not conducive to a Scum Victory at all. This is of course, assuming 10/3 setup.
Kitten does seem suspicious from Day 1 LOLTUNNEL and Day 2 "Hey I'm not going to tunnel so I'm not going to contribute" Not planning to vote for this one because of Rou's claim. As much as I hate to say this, I believe waiting until the next day would be the best course of action. If Kitten dies, we can clear Rou. If not, we can press Rou.
A-Mo hasn't been contributing much, so suspicion there. Whatever was contributed wasn't really original thought, just parroting others. Catch-up post incoming ,though. Want to refrain from voting A-Mo until this comes.
UK seems town, but I have this annoying gut suspicion that she's superbussing her other scummates. Perhaps this is because her reasons for voting others were pretty much the same as Kiro/Kilga/everyone else. Rationality tells me the opposite thought. She was right on both scumwagons.
Don't see why my lynch would be beneficial. If I am so full of WIFOM and difficulty to pin relations with, why would lynching me provide any information other than flip? Unless flip is the only information you want. Again, stating that I am a Vanilla Townie.
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EDWOP: I feel ambivalent towards the cases posed. Won't vote until a stellar reason presents itself. Even though I feel Edible is town, I may hammer if a good reason presents itself. Which it hasn't IMO.
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UK seems town, but I have this annoying gut suspicion that she's superbussing her other scummates. Perhaps this is because her reasons for voting others were pretty much the same as Kiro/Kilga/everyone else. Rationality tells me the opposite thought. She was right on both scumwagons.
Previous games of mine as scum would show this to be a valid concern. But, it's not accurate :P.
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So Seniwac posts a bunch of player assessments that end with no desire to vote for any of today's viable lynch candidates. That's wonderfully useless.
##Unvote: Edible
##Vote: Alice Margatroid
I find myself second-guessing myself on Edible, as I believe a larger percentage of his strangeness can be chalked up to zealous townie mistakes than Alice, who has next-to-nothing going in his favor right now. Suwako being nowhere near any important case in the later stages of Day 1 looks ugly and Kiro has already gone over the Alice/Sodium interaction on Day 2. Today...what is there to say, really? One contentless post. No vote, no suspicions, no nothing except for a promise for a real post that is closing in on 24 hours of being unfulfilled.
I think at this juncture I would rather have Roukan target Seniwac tonight and us lynch Edible tomorrow if everything shakes down as the surface suggests it will, though this is subject to change via discussion.
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Oh hey, it's almost 24 hours since I last posted. I don't have anything to add at the moment since there's the lack of Alice's promised post.
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the lack of Alice's promised post.
May as well make myself at least somewhat useful.
##vote Alice Margatroid
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The "uncreative title" votecount
Kitten4u: Kilgamayan, Alice Margatroid, Kiro, Roukanken (L-5)
Edible?: Kitten4U, UncertainKitten, Roukanken, Pesco, Kilgamayan (L-2)
Roukanken: UncertainKitten (L-6)
Khorneish Game Hen: Serpentarius (L-5)
Alice Margatroid: Kiro, Kilgamayan, Edible?, Khorneish Game Hen (L-2)
Edible is no longer at L-1, though he's still in first place.
Also, Seniwac is no longer in threat of modkill.
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Seconding (Thirding? Fourthing) the general rage at Alice failing to produce his promised post. Perfectly happy with either an Edible or an Alice lynch at this point.
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Seconding (Thirding? Fourthing) the general rage at Alice failing to produce his promised post. Perfectly happy with either an Edible or an Alice lynch at this point.
So who do you believe is more scummY?
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So who do you believe is more scummY?
Edible was scummier going into the day, with the gambit from yesterday followed by his immediate surrender. Alice has grown scummier as the day went on due to his severe lack of content throughout.
I'll admit that one of my big problems is that my scum-o-meter runs on Boolean - people are either scummy or they aren't. I don't really have any preference right now between Alice and Edible, because both of them are doing absolutely nothing to convince me that they're Town - Edible by dropping dead and Alice by not existing at all. The main reason I'd prefer to lynch Edible ahead of Alice, though, is that the latter's disappearance could be explained by circumstance - he literally hasn't been online since his last post. Hence I'd prefer to lynch Edible today and deal with Alice tomorrow. Or even tonight, if enough people support the idea.
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Well lynches don't happen without votes and Seniwac isn't putting one down.
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Well lynches don't happen without votes and Seniwac isn't putting one down.
I propose Haiku Off!
##VOTE ARI_MARGO
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Well lynches don't happen without votes and Seniwac isn't putting one down.
I propose Haiku Off!
##VOTE ARI_MARGO
I propose fuck no. Those only exist for the mod's amusement and effectively cut our chances of catching scum in half, and make it even worse if the scum IS up for lynch and sufficiently more clever than the townie.
I'd rather go all or nothing with an outright lynch and see if we can get any bandwagon analysis out of it.
Not sure what to think of AMo. I've kinda gotten used to him being...not there, so it's harder for me to read him well...I could do a reread later today, but I doubt it'd take more than 10 minutes or if I'd find anything of interest besides wastes of posts.
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Well lynches don't happen without votes and Seniwac isn't putting one down.
I propose Haiku Off!
##VOTE ARI_MARGO
Tonight we eat chicken kthnx
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I'm fine with either an Edible or an Alice lynch as well. They're scummy for basically the same reasons in my opinion (being lurky and defending now confirmed scum).
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Votecount above is updated.
There's a tie between Edible and Alice now. You've all got a little over 9 hours left.
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five and a half hours.
Everyone is modkilled for inactivity, no one wins If you all have nothing left to say, at least hammer someone so I don't have to stay up until midnight to host a Haiku contest.
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Serp, now might be a good time to vote for a train that will actually go somewhere.
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Taking final orders on who you guys want me to hit tonight.
Alice still hasn't been online since his last post. I'm more worried that he's inactive than lurking.
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Whichever of Edible and Alice doesn't get lynched.
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Whether Alice is inactive or not, I think the case on him is still the strongest out of people that we aren't postponing judgment on (K4U, and Rou to an extent). Suwako made some questionable statements and Alice has made almost no statements. His #548 in Day 3 has him voting K4U (fair target), and mentioning myself (arguably fair enough at the time, but also wanted MORE input from me, wat), and Pesco (looks like an unfounded gut suspicion without mentioning a few of Pesco's blemishes). Case on K4U is reasonable, although potentially hypocritical when you read the reasoning. Can't say I get a good vibe from that post now.
I really don't know what else to say except that I want to see Alice lynched today and I'm moderately hopeful the game would end right then rather than wait till Night 4 (or later if for some reason the nightvig doesn't work). Edible's actions are more likely to be that of a Townie than Alice's. Simple as that. For those of you still on Edible's wagon, you tell me why Edible is more worthy of being lynched than Alice. Giving Alice a chance to defend himself doesn't work anymore because we have. Over 24 hours. If Alice says he will commit yet doesn't, then the evidence stands as-is and I think it outweighs the case against Edible.
I concur with Kilga's post above me. Hell, whatever Alice's roleclaim is should not deter you because at this point, I have no more sympathy for his last minute roleclaims as Scum and it is reasonably possible he is inactive lurking to stay alive (I did that in that one game I replaced Scum Jan-san in, especially because I had that 24 hour post restriction).
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Edible's actions are more likely to be that of a Townie than Alice's. Simple as that. For those of you still on Edible's wagon, you tell me why Edible is more worthy of being lynched than Alice.
Neither of them are really producing any suspicions of use at this point. The difference is that there's a possibility Alice is doing it because of circumstance - assuming that he's deliberately avoiding conversation is a pretty big gamble when he could just be getting held up by real life. Edible has been posting and all he's been saying is 'yeah I'm sorry, mind hitting me tonight?' Leaves a bad taste of BP, RB or even GF in the mouth.
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##Unvote: Khorneish Game Hen
##Vote: Alice Margatroid (L-1)
I only have a moment here at the computer, and I might not be in again before the deadline, so I'll break the tie. Of the two, Alice seems more likely to be scum.
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Well Edible offered to be lynched first in #589 before the possible WIFOM regarding who would get targeted by you popped up. Unless he's unlynchable Scum (not fucking possible), that's about as extreme a WIFOM he could hope to pull as Scum. Pretty much, he'd have to hope a better case came up than his AND any sort of immunity he may have must also be active while he goes out and performs an NK attempt. I think that'd be pretty imba scum.
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Regardless, I still don't approve of how Edible simply gave himself up without a fight. He made pretty much no attempt to defend himself, which is not only anti-Townie it's also very much not like Edible IMO. I'm keeping my vote where it is.
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For those of you still on Edible's wagon, you tell me why Edible is more worthy of being lynched than Alice.
What it came down to for me was Edible's gambit. They both had similar issues, but I really dislike the gambit. I had a better reply to this, but since the deadline's getting close (~2.5 hours if I'm not mistaken) and since I also think Alice would be a good lynch I'll hammer.
##Unvote
##Vote Alice Margatroid
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Hopefully that's game.
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For those of you still on Edible's wagon, you tell me why Edible is more worthy of being lynched than Alice.
See my previous wall on him. AMo is always useless, until he isn't
Hopefully that's game.
I think you know better.
But, yeah, guess I don't have to say much at all now.
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The "The Final Countdown
Psyche!
" votecount[/size]
Kitten4u: Kilgamayan, Alice Margatroid, Kiro, Roukanken (L-5)
Edible?: Kitten4U, UncertainKitten, Roukanken, Pesco, Kilgamayan (L-3)
Roukanken: UncertainKitten (L-6)
Khorneish Game Hen: Serpentarius (L-6)
Alice Margatroid: Kiro, Kilgamayan, Edible?, Khorneish Game Hen, Serpentarius, Kitten4U (Hammer)
Alice Margatroid Was Lynched. He was Kanako Yasaka, Shrine Goddess of the Lake and Sky, a Vanilla Townie
Kitten4U was the victim of an unfortunate accident. She was Gengetu, Illusory Moon, Who was Posing as Yuka Kazami. This didn't stop her from being a Vanilla Townie
As Cherry Petals
Float long, long, into the night.
So do your Actions.
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For a While, people were talking. Then, all of a sudden, nothing happened. Finally, after a while of that, people began talking and slowly the conversation moved towards getting rid of Alice Margatroid.
"So, Suwako! Err, I mean, Alice! Just who exactly are you?"
"I am the most powerful Goddess in Gensokyo."
Kiro Cleared his throat.
"Oh be quiet."
Alice threw off her disguise to reveal She is Suwako Moriya.
"Oh that's right. I forgot I was still wearing this."
Suwako threw off her disguise to reveal She is Kanako Yasaka.
"I came down offering my help in the situation, but it seems my services are no longer needed."
"You never actually provided Services."
"I said be quiet! I'm returning to the Shrine. If you See Sanae, tell her to come home this instant."
And with that, She left.
Meanwhile, on the other side of the room, a torn page from a book blows in the wind into Kitten4U's leg. She grasped the page in her hand and read to herself the words on the page. A Smile shown on her lips.
"Aha! This is the cure I've been searching for!"
"Cure? Are you sick Yuka?"
Kitten4U tore off her disguise revealing that she was not the presumed Yuka, but rather some girl that's never visited Gensokyo before. She identified herself as Gengetu.
"Sorry everyone. I was mainly helping the cause behind this meeting because I was reading through Yuka's Mail and thought it would be interesting. But this ... "Haiku" It's called. I think I've finally found purpose in my life besides wondering around from one thing to the next. I apologize, but I must go!"
She dashes off, to be seen again like she was seen before - never.
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It seemed like a peaceful day. Everyone woke up and calmly walked out into the meeting room. Tea was prepared, and everyone took a cup.
"So, it looks as if everyone made it back from the night."
Everyone except Serpentarius nodded.
"In that case, once we finish our morning tea, let's resume our discussion on who we should remove next."
Everyone except Serpentarius nodded.
"By the way... did anyone else notice Serpentarius doesn't have a head?"
Serpentarius raised the tea and poured it carefully into his esophagus.
Everyone except Serpentarius nodded.
Serpentarius was the victim of last night's kill. He was Kaguya Houraisan, Lunatic Princess of the Moon. Questioning revealed that on occasion, she would ask to switch beds with someone, likely causing the mafia to accidentally kill her instead of the person she switched beds with. Normally a triviality for an immortal like herself. Thus, effectively she was the Town Doctor.
It is now day 4. Please enjoy the day, as it will end Sept. 11th, 12:00 p.m. Noon, EST.
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Wellp, hope you all are happy
##Vote Edible
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Oh...by the way, don't clear Rou. Would it be an AWESOME scum power for forgo your kill and instead just be all "yeah ,die next phase"? Screw with people's conceptions of lylo a bit...or maybe clear someone who is likely to be lynched, ne?
Basically, only person I'm clearing is KGH for prior scum interactions with him.
Was it confirmed whether anyone knew they got targetted for a kill or not?
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Damnit, Serp, why didn't you protect yourself? You had to know your death was the Mafia's only chance of not losing by attrition.
Okay. ScumRoukan can be all but ruled out. WackyDelayedKillSKRoukan is theoretically possible but very unlikely given how he has played (most notably the lack of a Day 2 kill and his voting Edible over Sodium on that same day). I am willing to call TownRoukan at this juncture.
Kiro and UK aren't worth pursuing. Edible has the Sword of Damocles hanging over his head, so he isn't worth pursuing either.
pesco is my outside shot at scum. He's made some good posts, but like I mentioned earlier, he's also had a couple bouts of me-too-ism, and he was sitting on Seniwac at the end of Day 2. I don't really think he's scum, but he's the least town of everyone still alive that isn't Edible or the last person I have to talk about.
I would much rather ##Vote: Seniwac at this juncture, however, because there exists a good case against him even considering the way Days 1 and 2 played out, and if he survives to LYLO he's going to be a monumental distraction that we can't afford.
Cut by UK, who makes a pretty bold claim on what might have transpired. I suppose it's possible, but...that seems very far out. Why not let Edible go to the end of the day to see if Roukan's power kicks in and kills him? Under your suggestion, Serp's death would mean that Edible won't die, and if that transpires we can turn around and lynch Roukan tomorrow. Even toying with the idea of a Roukan/Edible scum team, they wouldn't have enough time to escape a steamroll on Days 5 and 6.
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Cut by UK, who makes a pretty bold claim on what might have transpired. I suppose it's possible, but...that seems very far out. Why not let Edible go to the end of the day to see if Roukan's power kicks in and kills him? Under your suggestion, Serp's death would mean that Edible won't die, and if that transpires we can turn around and lynch Roukan tomorrow. Even toying with the idea of a Roukan/Edible scum team, they wouldn't have enough time to escape a steamroll on Days 5 and 6.
I like this idea. With Serp killed, the delayed kill mechanism, as I described it can't happen...
I'm on board. But I'm not voting Seniwac. Which leads me to have to reread you, Kiro, and pesco at some point in this game day. Probably not today as I'll probably be going out.
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I don't think you'll need to re-read Kiro, given Serp's flip and claim that he protected Kiro Night 2. The only way Kiro would be scum is if your delayed kill scenario was true and Roukan/Kiro was the remaining scum team (and I still sincerely doubt 9/4 is the case, especially with a flipped janitor and this proposed wacky delayed kill mechanism).
Obviously, if it comes down to it, I will vote pesco to save myself. I don't mind doing this anyway for reasons detailed in my previous post.
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I don't think you'll need to re-read Kiro, given Serp's flip and claim that he protected Kiro Night 2. The only way Kiro would be scum is if your delayed kill scenario was true and Roukan/Kiro was the remaining scum team (and I still sincerely doubt 9/4 is the case, especially with a flipped janitor and this proposed wacky delayed kill mechanism).
Obviously, if it comes down to it, I will vote pesco to save myself. I don't mind doing this anyway for reasons detailed in my previous post.
I actually forgot the protection thing. Good point. Saves me time anyway. So you and pesco get reread and I'd choose my vote targets out of that...interesting.
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I would believe Rou has shot Edible. Better to let him come and claim it.
Going steamroll it's ##Vote Seniwac.
I'm not particularly sold on clearing Seniwac based on the interactions. If a buddy has been acting obvscum to the extent that they're almost a guaranteed lynch, then there's little need to hold back on the bussing.
UK's use of this reasoning for a clear is weak to me considering her own play as scum. Your strat is to be oblivious of the team. If this is what Seniwac has been doing, voting pattern is not sufficient to clear him with.
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Just stating that I've seen the Night flip. Without doing a reread yet, I'm not seeing that much of a problem with the KGH train although I'd rather not vote anyone till I get that reread in.
I've gone over Pesco and Kilga a bit before, but off the top of my head for UK, she did vote both Zengar and Sodium, but she was not one of the first ones in either case. May need to doublecheck her a little more. If it's not KGH or Edible by the time we see Day 5, it's gonna get rather tricky.
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UK's use of this reasoning for a clear is weak to me considering her own play as scum. Your strat is to be oblivious of the team. If this is what Seniwac has been doing, voting pattern is not sufficient to clear him with.
He was playing with Sodium, and Zengar (a newb). Honestly, I think KGH was just a godsend to them. I'm not sure if they'd pick up the bus as early as they did in this case.
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I assume I'm toast, via Roukanken assassination.
It's really really hard to swallow a townie with unlimited vig capabilities. I can't see a scenario in which Rou is town - the only real question is if he's a SK/scum (in which case we need to lynch him) or a survivor (in which case we don't).
Flavor-wise, his power seems more Sakuya than Remilia, if you catch my drift. I'll try to roll a reread of him later when I'm at work.
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Flavor-wise Remilia could simply fate her opponents to die, so.
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Flavor-wise Remilia could simply fate her opponents to die, so.
So can I
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Also I'll be leaving for work soon so don't bum-rush Seniwac while I'm gone. A night-time action plan needs to be in place before we decide on a lynch (unless it's Roukan I guess) and I want to make sure I get in on that.
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Just say so now if you want in.
Also cutting Rou's post ;D
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The "First Votecount of the day" Votecount.
Edible?: Uncertain Kitten (L-3)
Khorneish Game Hen: Kilgamayan, Pesco (L-2)
Be careful. With Seven people left, you only need 4 votes.
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Edible: Omae wa mou shindeiru.
Oh...by the way, don't clear Rou. Would it be an AWESOME scum power for forgo your kill and instead just be all "yeah ,die next phase"? Screw with people's conceptions of lylo a bit...or maybe clear someone who is likely to be lynched, ne?
...You realise that if I had a role like that, hitting Serp and therefore not vigging Edible would be suicidal, right? Especially since Lylo hasn't been declared.
Don't like how UK's starting the day by voting Edible when it's already been pretty much set out that I vigged him last night. Think I'll give her a reread when I get the time, but life just threw me a MASSIVE screwball so I'm sort of out of it right now. -_-
For now, I'll admit that Seniwac is basically a walking WIFOM. The fact he seems to be making an express effort to say as little as possible now doesn't help him. I'd vote him, but it's a little early in the day to put someone at L-1.
Also. Given that we have 7 people left and no Lylo's been declared despite my vig shot, there's probably only one scum left.
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...You realise that if I had a role like that, hitting Serp and therefore not vigging Edible would be suicidal, right? Especially since Lylo hasn't been declared.
I'm not going to spell out anything I don't have to.
I'm just not clearing you. This is an outside possibility.
Don't like how UK's starting the day by voting Edible when it's already been pretty much set out that I vigged him last night. Think I'll give her a reread when I get the time, but life just threw me a MASSIVE screwball so I'm sort of out of it right now. -_-
Why win later when we can win now?
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Rou's shot only happens after the lynch. We'd still have to get there and clearing up more doubts is better than putting all our eggs in one basket.
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Rou's shot only happens after the lynch. We'd still have to get there and clearing up more doubts is better than putting all our eggs in one basket.
That's fair. I was just putting out my initial justification. Turns out I have time for that reread sometime eventually today if I feel like it.
But yeah, Edible becomes sub optimal as a lynch when I follow my current thoughts.
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So are we waiting on re-reads at this point? >_>
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So are we waiting on re-reads at this point? >_>
I really hope not. I hate doing them and I'm kinda out of it today -_-
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Question for Rou: What happens if a Doc protects your target? Would it still go off as a no-kill when voting time comes?
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So, my emphasis on the reread was: is KGH scummy enough to be lynched despite the fact Scum Sodium would thus have been trying to bus him since early Day 1. And to a lesser extent, another review of whether anyone else showing signs of bussing Zengar or Sodium or pushing any of the currently known Townies to mislynch in a bad way.
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Sodium #90, questions why KGH would roleclaim but votes UK for "ignoring it." UK asks Sodium whether he finds KGH less scummy than UK and Sodium in #96 says he'd "put them equal, but voted UK because KGH has votes on him already." In the very beginning of the game, this is the most likely time where scum may choose to avoid putting pressure on one of their own so I do think it stands out now.
After KGH says he intended to end RVS intentionally with the roleclaim, UK, Suwako (confirmed Town), K4U (confirmed Town) and Sodium (confirmed Scum) all vote for him. Man... that makes this interesting, but at this point, Sodium could have gone into bus mode. Also in #144, he mentions Zengar who waffled on KGH and didn't provide anything else about KGH except perhaps wondering why KGH didn't bother to talk about much else (#123). Sodium in #150 is going to give Zengar a little bit of newbie leniency, but is not going to extend that to KGH. In other words, Sodium is pretty much avoiding Zengar and going head on against KGH. Interesting dynamic if all 3 are Scum and a somewhat reasonable survival strategy for Sodium at that point. He might have gotten foiled because the Zengar wagon gained momentum and with his late switch (which I have now determined as bad judgement more than trying to gain Town cred), his actions contradicted themselves setting him up for the fall in Day 2. Sodium also kinda starts pushing Edible midway through the Day and KGH does as well so there's a possible link of trying to get a mislynch going although it's pretty weak and clumsy. The obvious and somewhat simpler counter to this is that KGH is a Townie set to be mislynched.
Another interesting thing is that KGH and Sodium start attacking each other reasonably early. For instance, KGH brings up a decent point in #200 about Sodium's vote on him. At this point, I don't think it changes for the rest of the game. Yet KGH is kinda clinging to an early case on UK and decides to eventually prod pursue Edible over either Sodium or Zengar and had plenty of chances to vote either of them. I am amused though that despite his voting UK and conversation with her, KGH's #206 gives UK the impetus to eventually switch to Zengar. Could be scumbuddies playing off each other, but that would require 4 Scum. I also think K4U summed it up in a funny way in #284:
*headdesk* Your questions on UK were basically the only pro-town thing I think you've done all game and you don't even think she's scum? Gah.
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In regards to UK: She's all against KGH early before going Zengar. If UK was solo Scum, she eventually would have chosen to forgo a mislynch on KGH to bussing Zengar when either could have been lynched. Pretty gutsy there if so. But from Town UK's point of view, she does gloss over Zengar's waffling for most of early Day 1 so it fits to some extent that she didn't consider him a top priority until she did her midday rereads and almost immediately voted Zengar. In her #188 before her rereads, she has KGH as scummy, Zengar as waffles, and doesn't mention Sodium (is a little surprised at my point on Sodium when she rereads me). Looks mostly like her focus at the time, but that's fair due to the eventual Zengar vote.
Zengar in #210 says "Hen is cleaner now." Interesting.
Edible: Any further opinion on whether UK is Scum by gut as you mentioned in #223. Should get your opinions in before you most likely eat it today.
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Conclusion: Reading KGH through the confirmed Scum does show possibilities he was bussed by Sodium and ignored by Zengar as an overall Scum strategy. As for KGH himself, he is way too hard to read because any votes he has made have been useless or in strict self-defense (Sodium in Day 2). No cases still. I'm ok to his being lynched today and he definitely would be too risky to leave alive during LYLO. The onus is on him to present a more compelling case on someone else because he has not done that once this game which is terrible, especially because he could be Scum himself. Furthermore, a lot of Pesco's and Kilga's actions (see below) make more sense if KGH is actually scum.
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If it seriously comes down to Rou/Pesco/Kilga/UK, it's gonna be a gut vote. Amusingly enough, let's assume we're in LYLO tomorrow with 4 of us alive. Pesco/Kilga/UK will be alive, either Rou or I will likely have been killed. Rou though, will get one shot off and we lynch one. That leaves 2 alive at the end of the Day and the game will end one way or another. Which means Scum would win if the one or two that die are both Town. Rou pretty much has to pick between Pesco/Kilga/UK/Kiro tonight and I wonder if he should publicize who it is before today ends so that Town knows who not to lynch tomorrow and let the shot off them. I am obviously partial to myself not being shot, but I think there is good outside evidence and some voting history that justifies me not being shot. I really do think UK is most Townie at this juncture in a 3 Scum setup, but all bets are off if we see Scum die and the game doesn't end.
So either Pesco or Kilga gets shot and the other is lynched Day 5. If KGH flips Town, then Pesco made the most blatant effort to get him mislynched in Day 2 when I switched to KGH and Pesco followed me and stayed on him. The reason kinda sucks too. Problem is that it's so blatantly bad that I can't see ScumPesco using it as a long term survival plan, especially when he was coasting along and got on Sodium early in Day 2. Kilga for what it's worth though, did the same thing on both days, but his reasons were better in both scenarios than Pesco's one time in Day 2. Also looks bad if KGH flips Town. It's more subtle in Kilga's case and subtlety is how Kilga would play as Scum making him far more dangerous. In this worst case scenario, head says Pesco, heart says Kilga. Tough call, but I still would choose Kilga because his action "fits" more with Scum making it to the endgame alive.
The whole worry though is that if the last Scum is bulletproof (no sign of a roleblocker on Serp or Rou or a Cop/Godmother in this setup) and we only shoot one and ignore lynching him/her in LYLO, we shot ourselves in the foot literally. So I don't think we can use the vig as a crutch. What I suggest as an alternative to the above, is to have Rou shoot who he thinks is most likely to be Scum AND we try to lynch who is most likely to be Scum on Day 5. If we overkill on one person, so be it, that means he/she was looked over twice and we can't fault our using the vig role as a reason Town loses if we fail. Now that I say it like this, should we not have Rou publicize who he hits so we don't color our cases the following day? Opinions?
On a random note as well, if we don't see Edible die today though, best explanation is either Edible is bulletproof and/or Rou is lying and is most likely a one-shot Vig (Delayed Night or End of Same Day). Definitely lean Edible for a lynch (Edible would be more likely Scum since a Town Doc and Town Bulletproof is not reasonable, than Rou who would either be a one-shot Scum Vig or a fluky SK) in such a case though and we'd not be in LYLO anyways (5 alive for Day 5). So if Edible doesn't die today, Rou shouldn't shoot anyone because if we're incorrect about the Edible lynch tomorrow, we don't automatically lose with 2 deaths and an NK tomorrow (better safe than sorry).
I'm set to vote KGH after we get more opinions in or if KGH can convince me to vote someone else, then I might do that. I seriously type way too fucking much and I don't even want to look at my own shit when I reread so I don't know how you guys can stand to do it.
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Rereading :/
If we're going into a 4 player LyLo, it doesn't matter if Rou shoots or not. Unless he shoots the right person, we win only if we lynch scum. I rate he keeps it to himself and think it out on his own. In other words grow a spine and think for yourself.
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I've just realised a problem that I should probably talk over with Zak. Does my kill work if I hit a GF? Because we've lynched a jan and a goon so far, so GF as the third role isn't unheard of...
I'll get down to that reread after this, but Seniwac's disappearance says quite a lot. I think we're so far into the day (and there's so little actual discussion) that L-1 is acceptable. Even if he does turn out to be Town, he isn't the sort of liability we want to take into Lylo.
##Vote: KGH (L-1)
Claim, please.
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Seniwac already claimed way back on Day 1.
I am for the "Roukan doesn't tell us who he shot" idea.
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Seniwac already claimed way back on Day 1.
I guess, but I was sort of hoping that wasn't serious. :V
Anyway, SERIOUSLY NEED TO DO THAT UK REREAD
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Initial drama for not taking interest in Seniwac's claim. Probably only relevant in the event of a scumpair, but that's more or less impossible right now so it's more or less a nulltell.
Then again it's Sodium that attacks her, and I'm not sure if scum would risk going at their buddy based on more or less the first real point of the game.
Switches to KGH here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1918.msg74425#msg74425) based on the 'I acted scummy to start discussion' point. I initially read this as weird, but looking over it again it does make sense - if he's going out of his way to act scummy then we're already in deep WIFOM.
Has a decent case on KGH, but drops it to go over to Zengar late in the day. If KGH flips Town this is probably noteworthy, though she did make a few points against Zengar in earlier posts.
Jumps on the Sodium wagon D2 almost immediately. Despite the potential to switch to Edible later on, she sticks with Sodium and lynches a second scum.
One thing I find more interesting is her opinion change between the end of D2 and the start of D3. Before the Sodium lynch she presses the possibility of a Sodium/Edible pair as hard as possible. Then when D3 comes around, she attacks me without giving any reason as to why the case on Edible had dissipated. She switched back to Edible afterwards, but I don't understand why she changed her mind.
This (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1918.msg82258#msg82258) offhand comment to Edible about D3 not being the end raises an eyebrow, but I can't really hold anything to it.
In fact, since changing her mind she's been pretty dead set on Edible to be lynched. May as well ask, what are your opinions on players other than Edible and myself?
To be fair, there isn't that much going against her right now. The only thing that really worries me about her is that she dropped Edible as a suspect during N2 for me, and when she jumped back onto him afterwards she basically never let go. Need an Edible flip before I try to look any further.
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The "Not First Votecount of the day" Votecount.
Edible?: Uncertain Kitten (L-3)
Khorneish Game Hen: Kilgamayan, Pesco, Roukanken (L-1)
Heniwac is about the fly the coop at L-1
About 43.5 hours left in the day
Also, I have limited access today until I get around to fixing my computer.
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One thing I find more interesting is her opinion change between the end of D2 and the start of D3. Before the Sodium lynch she presses the possibility of a Sodium/Edible pair as hard as possible. Then when D3 comes around, she attacks me without giving any reason as to why the case on Edible had dissipated. She switched back to Edible afterwards, but I don't understand why she changed her mind.
The out you gave sodium REALLY had me reasonably sure you were a pair after I considered the night.
This offhand comment to Edible about D3 not being the end raises an eyebrow, but I can't really hold anything to it.
Me being self assured. The implication was he was scum.
In fact, since changing her mind she's been pretty dead set on Edible to be lynched. May as well ask, what are your opinions on players other than Edible and myself?
Hell if I know. I think KGH will end up being a mislynch. I've flipped over and over on Kilga, and probably have to give him a proper reread. As well as read Kiro and Pesco. I might get to that later today.
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The out you gave sodium REALLY had me reasonably sure you were a pair after I considered the night.
I'm relatively sure I'd given Sodium the out before you said that your main suspicion was a Sodium/Edible team. That's why I'm uncertain what changed.
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the general consensus is that I'm scummy, annoying, and generally a good lynch even if I am Town, right?
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the general consensus is that I'm scummy
This is the only part that really matters, but the other two are sort of extras.
Still don't feel like roleclaiming?
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EBWOP: Or are you holding to your VT claim from D1? >_>
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EBWOP: Or are you holding to your VT claim from D1? >_>
Yes. If my death would really clear things up, I would be glad to selfhammer.
Also possibility that Serp may have Doc'd Edible up, considering his thoughts on Rou and Edible.
Or he could've Doc'd Rou up!
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The out you gave sodium REALLY had me reasonably sure you were a pair after I considered the night.
I'm relatively sure I'd given Sodium the out before you said that your main suspicion was a Sodium/Edible team. That's why I'm uncertain what changed.
I considered during the night.
I REALLY didn't like that out.
the general consensus is that I'm scummy, annoying, and generally a good lynch even if I am Town, right?
I'm not voting you am I? I wish you'd be USEFUL town though.
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Why in the world would Serp use a doc shot on me?
Thoughts and general ability to contribute pending not getting utterly swamped at work.
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KGH: You're scummy for not scumhunting. One suspicion is that you don't feel compelled to scumhunt because you are the last Scum and can't BS a case as well knowing this. Whether Scum or Town, you gotta go through the motions of scumhunting. Zengar didn't and was lynched fairly quickly for that. You do understand that you're doing the same thing right?
It's also not that you're annoying, but because you are not contributing meaningfully. That effectively makes you dead weight as a player, but you could be Town or Scum either way which is where you become a liability. If this were LYLO, this would be a serious problem. But Town essentially has one mislynch to give and you're the weakest link. I took the time to reread you and felt that little things that might go in your favor (Sodium attacking you early in the game) are not enough to clear your behavior of random questioning and weak voting history.
The hardest part about the whole deal is that with it looking like there are only 3 Scum in this setup and 2 have been dead for awhile, no one is noticably suspicious for wanting you dead if you're Town. The last scum only has to cover for himself/herself and can just as easily make an argument of wanting you dead (because you'd be dangerous to leave alive in LYLO) or defending for you (looks like they have good judgment when they see an expected Town flip). You're in the unique situation of being at the wrong end of the gun barrel, so tell us what you think about all of us who are wanting or waiting for you to die. Town will take your words into consideration afterwards if you are indeed a Townie. If you don't provide any insight, your death will have been nothing more than a waste of time.
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I also didn't really think about Rou's worry about UK, but it may be worth looking into. And I realized KGH flipping Town also would not make UK look that good given how she got on him early Day 1. I'm slightly worried that her actions from the middle of Day 1 to the end of Day 2 look too good, while her initial votes in Day 3 and Day 4 are kind of "huh" especially her Edible vote today when it should be reasonable to assume Edible was set to die by the end of today anyways. She missed a few things like Sodium in Day 1 and mentioned Zengar waffling twice, but didn't take action till she was conveniently prompted to do so.
Perhaps I'm clearing her too quickly. Need to reread some of these points again tonight.
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If KGH flips town I'll have fucking told you so. But whatever.
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Hi I'm Sariel,
Mafia Goon Angel of Death. I have the power to kill people when their votes are at a majority!
Only two players I am convinced of Town are Rou and Kiro. Kiro's playstyle seems very townie-like, especially with the goading of me to provide answers. Even more so now that Serp flipped Doc! Doubt Rou's a SK because of his lack of Day 2 kill.
Edible doesn't count because he is already dead.
Don't like Pesco for doing nothing and basically saying "WOOHOO STEAMROLL." So called good posts seem like bus attempts now that I read it again. Agreeing onto a bandwagon for townie intent, even! Switching to me when Scum wagon is WOOHOOING is really odd because he seems to blatantly follow. Scum move for self-preservation in the long run? Seems likely because it is obvious that a case will be built on me and he would not be suspicious for hopping on. But why no reasons?
Feel like clearing Kilga but the fact that he likes to switch to me out of Scumwagons is disheartening. Dislike the fact that he rushes to Sodium's defense after Edi's fakeclaim with IMO a pretty bad defense. I don't believe meta is the only factor there. The switch back seems like a preservation vote for ScumKilga, but it go either way. TownKilga would have every incentive to go there as well. Heart says yes, Head says wait a moment.
Don't believe Edi is a Bulletproof. If he was, he would've claimed that when it was obvious that Rou was going to shoot him the day before.
UK is really odd. ScumUK would want to keep Walking WIFOM Dispenser Alive. She's been right on both Wagons. Very gutsy Scum move but it has huge rewards in town cred form. Neutral right now. Point of interest is "previous scum interactions." Wouldn't know what those are because I'm a Vanilla Townie, but maybe the one who said it could elaborate?
In conclusion
##VOTE KHORNEISH GAME HEN
HAHA PSYCHE
but really ##VOTE PESCO
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UK is really odd. ScumUK would want to keep Walking WIFOM Dispenser Alive. She's been right on both Wagons. Very gutsy Scum move but it has huge rewards in town cred form. Neutral right now. Point of interest is "previous scum interactions." Wouldn't know what those are because I'm a Vanilla Townie, but maybe the one who said it could elaborate?
Obviously, how the flipped scum have handled you and interacted with you. Duh.
So, yeah...I guess I'll do that reread of Kilga and Pesco now.
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Um, so is Angel of Death with "the power to kill people when their votes are at a majority" an actual power role or are you still claiming to be Vanilla Townie at the bottom of your post?
Condescend me, this one's a little confusing to me.
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Um, so is Angel of Death with "the power to kill people when their votes are at a majority" an actual power role or are you still claiming to be Vanilla Townie at the bottom of your post?
Condescend me, this one's a little confusing to me.
Vanilla Townie~
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...And with that one post, you've produced more of use than every other post you've made in the game so far.
Still, I'm wondering if this is a case of Too Little, Too Late. This post proves you're capable to displaying logical, well-thought out opinions, so why did you fail to show any of this for the first four days?
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Ok. Saves me the trouble of typing something about power role balance that would have been irrelevant.
Rou: *shrug* It's not like he's cleared. But he's not going to roll over and die now and if the discussion leads to the correct lynch today, Town can't complain.
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UK: The way you worded it was strange, but I can see your thought more clearly now.
Rou: Mind telling us who's more scummy instead of poking about my playstyle?
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EDWOPPO: Should be "who is the scummiest"
Sorry Rou-chan~
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The "Another" Votecount.
Edible?: Uncertain Kitten (L-3)
Khorneish Game Hen: Kilgamayan, Pesco, Roukanken (L-1)
Pesco: Khorneish Game Hen (L-3)
Heniwac is about the fly the coop at L-1
also, Computer fixed~
[/quote]
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Is Pesco really at L-1
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I am going to hate doing this. But, Kilga:
Kilga talks about the VT claim for page 3...
No Kilga til page 6...
Rereading Kilga's first analysis post, it's not as bad as I thought it was.
But it's interesting at this point KGH is making newbie mistakes according to Kilga
Joke about pesco, defending attack on Zengar. Pretty normal townie stuff.
213 is funny
So far as of page 10 I'm seeing a fairly townie progression.
(Which is hilarious cause I thought it was scummy before, and that Kilga was scum with Zengar :S)
349 is intriguing. Starts wagon on Sodium. Which is good townie cred.
More sodium die as of page 14...
If Sodium flips scum KGH is almost assuredly town.
More previous stance fun. This is 436.
Kilga never does give us that assessment of Rou's reaction to the Edible lie detector thing on page 16. He sticks on Sodium though.
509 pokes Seniwac and Edible but stays firm on Sodium. Of course, he could be riding the bus he started at this point, not expecting it to lead this far. Overall it feels like he's town so far though.
Argh. The more I think about this the less sure I am of myself and the more people I add to my overall suspect pool. I think there's only one person in this game right now that's not me that I wouldn't vote for for some reason and that's pissing me off greatly.
Curious who that was :P
(518)
but the problem with 518 is it feels like a last minute protection of Sodium to kill the easily mislynched Seniwac...I don't like it. He also never followed through on it.
535 is the only possible answer after Serp's claim.
547 starts the day contradicting 518
554 doesn't jibe with future actions.
Dammit, this series of posts practically has me paranoid about 4 scum with a Kilga Edible pair. ARGH.
580 jumps off KGH again.
610 WIFOM irritates me
615 as well
Random Alice push on page 22. Almost to giant space flea from nowhere (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GiantSpaceFleaFromNowhere) levels.
669 is interesting, and a flip from Seniwac is misguided town (again)
Ok, I'm leaning Kilga town. The distressing posts of D3 and D4 only make sense if Kilga is tied to someone, impossible assuming three scum.
So, that leaves a pesco reread.
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I dislike the increasing number of cases involving me that mention what the heart says. How the hell am I supposed to defend myself from the heart I mean seriously <_<
Seniwac's post is noted but it's a Too Little Too Late sitch like Roukan said.
Cut by UK which I'll address in a moment.
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If I had to call it now, it'd probably be KGH followed distantly by Pesco. I agree he's been uncharacteristically quiet this round, but on Day 1 he was already going for both of the confirmed scum.
The whole 'Kilga jumping away from wagons' point is sort of weird. Swinging away from one buddy is risky. Two is suicidal. It's more glaring in the case of D2 - if he wanted to stay away from Sodium, why didn't he just keep up his attack on Seniwac from the day before? Thus I'm not really convinced by that line of reasoning.
Kiro is, well, Kiro. Nothing to complain about, really.
So yeah, still pretty happy with a KGH lynch right now. One good post doesn't really make up for FOUR DAYS of uselessness - in fact, it makes them look even worse.
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forgot to address that i've only been useless for 3 days
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Bunch of clarifications, it seems.
Kilga never does give us that assessment of Rou's reaction to the Edible lie detector thing on page 16. He sticks on Sodium though.
Apologies, Edible's "result" completely threw me for a loop at the time.
For what it's worth now, my assessment was that Roukan was being an overzealous townie. It looked like he was a bit confused and aggravated at the Sodium/Seniwac build-up before that and once Edible randomly bounced out into the open with a fairly questionable roleclaim he took out his frustration there.
Curious who that was :P
It was Serpentarius, which I mention after Sodium hammered himself.
Random Alice push on page 22. Almost to giant space flea from nowhere (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GiantSpaceFleaFromNowhere) levels.
I believe my switch to Alice was telegraphed by my Page 20 four-player assessment.
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I believe my switch to Alice was telegraphed by my Page 20 four-player assessment.
Might have missed it. You still only make sense as a partner, not a loner.
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The whole 'Kilga jumping away from wagons' point is sort of weird. Swinging away from one buddy is risky. Two is suicidal. It's more glaring in the case of D2 - if he wanted to stay away from Sodium, why didn't he just keep up his attack on Seniwac from the day before? Thus I'm not really convinced by that line of reasoning.
What did you think of his justification on why Sodium was town? The D2 point was based mostly on that. It looked like a Last-Minute Desperate Scum Defense.
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EDWOP: Assuming Edible and I DOES die at Twilight, who would you target?
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slep time
please don't kill me yet
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So, pesco tiem
RVS vote on Sodium in 60. (Mindhax?)
me too ism as early as page 3
Page 4 is unnoteworthy
158 is me too etc.
160 feels like a fair post, but doesn't seem to implicate anyone...
Pesco's page 7 feels like what we've been accusing KGH of. Asking questions but not following through.
219 seems decent on Sodium
261s promise is noted
Page 10 continues decent one liners that don't fit 261s promise. Not sure what I think, but still leaning "Well, he's probably somewhat town"
Pesco is early on Zengar at end of day 1, so it's good.
354 me too etc.
384 is decent.
(I'd also like to state the big post 261 promised never came)
430's swing to Seniwac is not something I like. However...it is a reasonable post.
Don't like the pseudo percentage breakdown in 440. At all.
No pesco for two pages, and a sparse 567...but fair point...
Page 20 reflects well on Pesco I think.
Page 22 seems sparser...
Meh...Pesco seems town, if succint (which isn't necessarily bad)
He pretty much gets what needs to be said said, in a couple lines or less, and there's no real obfuscation.
Kilga and Pesco do not merit my vote today. I'm clearing Seniwac on vote history for the time being. That leaves Rou and Edible, who I've already stated are likely to be the scum.
I'm going to keep voting Edible since I'm not going to vote someone I think is town. Sorry about that.
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What did you think of his justification on why Sodium was town? The D2 point was based mostly on that. It looked like a Last-Minute Desperate Scum Defense.
To have made that escape, he'd have had to predict that Edible was gonna pull that gambit, which is sort of absurd.
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Having to reread is such a chore right now :(.
Seniwac and Edible are kicking it today. Get it done and over with, we win or we analyse some more.
Obviously my options are between Kilga and UK. Rou would have proven himself twice already. Kiro cleared by Serp, even if one didn't want to believe that, any scumKiro theory that I can think of in the course of the game's events is far too convoluted to be considered.
Off the top of my head, faults with Kilga are the times he's appealed to meta. The issue here is that I don't recall Kilga using such things as acceptable logic. His cases on scum have been 'too perfect' if we we can call it that. He's homed in on Sodium and Zengar very accurately and although they were so obvscum, the strongest play for his own survivability as scum is to bus them without a second thought.
UK's MO is to play loner. Given how bussable the scum have been this game. It's not a strong indicator. I recall UK already calling (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1918.msg79183#msg79183) Edible or Rou as buddies before Sodium was lynched. Sticking to Edible through day 3 in spite of Alice's wagon might be distancing.
The main points against me is that I'm too much of a follower this game. Well time zones kinda suck don't they. If stuff's been said, then I state my side on it.
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I've defended myself with meta only when I feel I've been attacked with meta. Really, as far as I can see it, the case against me is "Kilga saw two useless scumbuddies and superbussed both in order to win the game on his own". There's next to no in-game logical foundation for this, just an assessment of what I might have done based on the kind of player I am, and yet this assessment of me is somehow enough to override my ScumSodium slam at the start of Day 2 right after a scum flip where logic dictates that ScumMe would have been much better served to keep pursuing Seniwac or make a case on someone else. People will point at my moving to Seniwac late in the day, but, again, if I wanted to divert attention from scumbuddy Sodium, I just would not have nailed him down at the beginning of the day in the first place. Suggesting I planned a diversion also implies I predicted Edible would dance his dance, which is ludicrous as Roukan pointed out.
If there's a case against me founded in logic, then I'd be happy to hear it and refute it with logic (most likely the Sodium logic already presented in this post), but don't hold meta defenses against me when all I get are meta attacks and "heart says Kilga" conclusions.
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Thinking a bit about the Sodium wagon switches in Day 2, I guess one thing I'm overestimating is how bad Pesco's switch to KGH was. If KGH is also Scum, there has literally been zero chances for them to get a mislynch in. But if KGH is Town, that has been Scum's only chance to mislynch this game before going solo. But it never was really a strong factor in Day 1 where I think KGH only got to L-2 at varying points. As a chance to push a mislynch, Pesco's #429-430 in response to KGH's #407 was one of the 2 times in the game it could reasonably happen. KGH got ahead with my vote and while Alice and KGH brought Sodium back up, Pesco's switch reversed it. Thinking about it, would ScumPesco really have a choice but to try for the possible KGH mislynch anyways? His name would be on it, but then so would mine and whoever hammered as well as people who tunneled on Town KGH like K4U. If Scum could get a break, this would be the time. Pesco: do you still consider KGH to be a possible 3rd party, going back to your 33% argument? Is there any further justification to your vote on KGH today other than steamroll? And you don't seem to really provide a defense/response to KGH's case on you.
Course the KGH lynch didn't pan out this way in Day 2 and with Edible's roleclaim confusing things, I guess the main distinction between Pesco and Kilga is that Pesco stayed on KGH while Kilga lingered on Sodium for a bit before relenting and saying we could see whether Edible/Sodium could resolve itself (which is the second time a Scum could have tried for the possible KGH mislynch). I didn't consider this as much, but Kilga's #518 is the one where he hints at Serp being the possible Doc and at the same time runs counter with that assumption by unvoting Sodium and voting KGH. He says the possibility of them as a pair would be figured out and dismisses the idea that one is Town and the other could be Scum (no proof of that till possibly the end of the Day). He also worried that Sodium could very well be the Doc while throwing in the possibility Serp was the one. In retrospect, Serp voting Sodium back to L-1 after Edible's claim was a pretty strong sign that only you seemed to notice so why didn't you stick with it?
I'm starting to find it weird that both Pesco and Kilga are almost identical in voting history. Both voted Sodium early, both switched to KGH, and both think steamroll and vote KGH early in Day 4. I "don't think" both are Scum, but the rationale of those actions suggest it is one of the best courses of action for Scum to take this game. The suspicion is that one of them is Scum and the other is Townie whose actions while given by a Townie, run parallel to Scum interests.
KGH finally got something forward and his case on Pesco isn't bad. Going back to why Sodium would try to bus a Scum KGH so early in Day 1 while hinting at Zengar before the case on Zengar really got going: Sodium explicitly mentions Zengar when he didn't have to and he did it periodically. So if he wanted to bus a Scum KGH, he shouldn't be keeping his other buddy halfway relevant in the day's discussion. And that end of Day 1 switch is once again, really stupid and unneeded if Sodium knew both of them were Scum. He might get some heat for ignoring Zengar, but it would be redeemed if KGH flipped Scum. I'm convincing myself Sodium's actions are a more classic example of trying to mislynch one and ignore the other. KGH may be late, but that by itself is not enough to just brush his case aside. So if I think about Pesco vs Kilga more, Pesco goes on Zengar after Kilga (with more minimal reasons than Kilga), but Pesco goes from Sodium to KGH before Kilga. Pesco is after Kilga on the idea of steamrolling today, but because it looked like it was the only viable wagon, it does seem more neutral. We can't quite do a steamroll this game, we're about a phase behind so I guess the point is to try to get it right. I'm managing to convince myself it's more likely Pesco than Kilga now so there's the vote. Still want Kilga to answer those specific concerns about his actions in #518, if it's not Pesco or Edible, Day 5 may shape up to be Kilga.
##Vote Pesco
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Seniwac's play the entire game has been reactionary. When we don't prod him, he lurks. When we do, he comes firing with OMGUS cases. Have we seen him actually scumhunt without prompting? These things indicate someone that wants to stay alive, the only motivators are scum or third party.
On paper, Seniwac is the scummiest person alive and should be lynched by the facts of his actions. I can't quite recall my thoughts from day 3, but here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1918.msg81746#msg81746) was my displeasure at what Seniwac was doing.
I see his complaints as calling me TooTownie. There is no need to respond to such a case.
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I didn't think Serp was the doc - I (mistakenly) believed he would have counterclaimed at his first opportunity. I singled out Serp because he was the only player in the game I couldn't find a reason to vote for at the time, and I was getting aggravated since every time I tried to reread Sodium and Seniwac I'd find something suspicious from someone else that wasn't involved and it was distracting me instead of helping me make a decision.
My switch to Seniwac was brought on by a combination of no doc counterclaim and Sodium calling Edible's bluff instead of rolling over and dying, assisted by a perfectly valid Seniwac case. I admit I may have made a mistake in thinking Sodium would throw in the towel when Edible did what he did, but I maintain the belief that cornered scum are more likely to give up than town, which implies cornered town are less likely to give up than scum.
You say I "dismissed" the idea of Edible and Sodium being opposite alignments. Do you disagree with the thought process I used in either case?
Anything else you want me to cover?
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The "It's the slowest day ever~" Votecount.
Edible?: Uncertain Kitten (L-3)
Khorneish Game Hen: Kilgamayan, Pesco, Roukanken (L-1)
Pesco: Khorneish Game Hen, Kiro (L-2)
Seniwac is still at L-1 for those interested.
About 20.5 hours are left in the day.
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Kilga: It just seems with the way you said there was one person not worth voting for and then you patting yourself on the back after Serp's roleclaim and not wanting to "expose him to risk of NK" indicates you had a greater certainty about Serp and I tied it into you figuring out Serp telegraphed his role. Since you say it's different than that, that's a bit of a surprise and I'm not sure what motivation you would have to have made that comment as Town or Scum. While you as Scum could have caught on to Serp being the Doc and not said anything, it would have probably cost you a scumbuddy anyways so it would have been better to just keep shut about it and finish bussing Sodium and probably NK Serp without him knowing that you knew. The only reason I can see you as Townie saying that was out of pure frustration which is kinda useless. But I guess I'd still have to lean more towards the latter likelihood.
I disagree with the idea of clearing Sodium because he didn't cave to Edible's gambit, but I can see it as a Townie mistake and your reasoning for unvoting Sodium looked ok at the time. I actually thought Edible was hinting that he was a Cop who checked Sodium Night 1, got an Innocent on him and didn't want to see a mislynch while revealing his own role. So I thought Edible tweaked it to be a Lie Detector, lied himself to throw people off, and tried to clear Sodium in that fashion. Needless to say, after Sodium flipped Scum, I checked the entire thing, saw what you and Edible were banking on and double facepalmed IRL. I'd probably have chastised you then instead of now. So my conclusion is that the reason sucks, but the explanation for it is ok. Probably makes you look more Townie because Edible thought the same way and you couldn't be assured Scum Kilga would get a chance like this to jump off Sodium like that.
I think the clarification on the first point does make you look a whole lot better than before. With everything else that you've done, I'm probably willing to clear you completely at this point (unless someone else finds something of note). Kinda waiting to see what else happens now with KGH and Pesco.
Pesco: KGH isn't calling you Too Townie. He has some points against you I believe.
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Let him come in and make them clearer. It doesn't look like something I need to defend against.
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Gah, getting one last post in before the phase change. Staying over at a friend's house and hijacking his computer. -_-
In short, still don't think KGH has done enough to be worth sparing today. One decent case against Pesco really isn't enough to make up for almost 4 days of uselessness. >_>
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Preferrable to selfhammer a VT or leave only Edible dead?
LET's see
If I(Town) and Edible today die: 5 alive at end of D4.
4 Alive D5 (Scum kills)
ASSUME ROU SHOOTS AND WE LYNCH: 2 Alive. If Scum is alive, we lose.
ROU DOES NOT SHOOT: 3 Alive at End of D5. Scum Kills, Town loses.
More justifiable if Rou shoots to have a better chance of hitting scum if 2 die today.
If Only ONE Dies: 6 Alive at end of D4.
5 Alive at Beginning of D5 (Scum Kills)
ASSUME ROU SHOOTS: 3 Alive. Scum Kills at Night, we lose.
ASSUME ROU DOES NOT SHOOT: 4 Alive. Scum Kills at Night. Lylo then.
IF NONE DIE ( what )
7 Alive at End of D4.
6 Alive at Beginning of D5 (Scum Kills)
ROU SHOOTS: 4 Alive at End of D5. Scum Kills at N5, Lylo.
ROU DOES NOT: 5 Alive at End of D5. 4 at N5. Lylo.
I feel my death would best clear up suspicions. So I'm going to selfhammer. Rou shooting or not makes no difference in when we embark onto LYLO. Kiro made a note of this. Take note. Rou should shoot to increase chances of hitting scum.
Don't like Pesco for jumping off obvscum wagon for feels like paranoid scum. New point on UK is null because Alice/Edible were pretty much the same until I tied. Seems like the suspicion was the same too. Don't like point on Kilga for being Too Townie. Being a townie and voting scum is a stronger indication of town playing right rather than scum. If you made that point, why not focus that on UK?
##UNVOTE
##VOTE KGH
fun ride, but I believe we ll lose.
good day kids
i wish i could'vecontributed more but school is like AHHHHHG
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y u do dis :(
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y u do dis :(
for the greater town
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The "Last possible votecount, I completely and honestly swear
Not
!" Votecount.[/size]
Edible?: Uncertain Kitten (L-3)
Khorneish Game Hen: Kilgamayan, Pesco, Roukanken, Khorneish Game Hen (L-1)
Pesco: Khorneish Game Hen, Kiro (L-3)
Khorneish Game Hen was lynched! He was Sariel, Angel of Death.
Edible was the Victim of an unfortunate Accident! He was Tenshi Hinanai, Celestial Serving the Clan of the Earthquake.
Unfortunately, they were both Vanilla Townies.
This means that all of you lovely lovely people get to send in more nightactions~[/color]
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One by one, everyone was dropping like flies. on top of the recent streak of townie lynches, more and more innocent youkai are being dragged into submission by these mysterious events.
They found Kiro, lying face down in a pool of strawberry Jam.
The four remaining people awoke, stressed that today might be the last chance they get to remove those who would undermine them. Much arguing was done, but in the end, it wouldn't matter.
For at the end of the day, no matter who they lynched, Pesco would find himself on the business end of a Rake to the Face.
Pesco will be the subject of an Unfortunate Accident by tonight. He was Youmu Kompaku, Half-Ghost, Half-Human, and Half-baked a Mafia Goon. Since it's impossible for him to reach Scum Win condition before the end of the day, The game is called in town's favor.
Role PMs are found in the document attached to the bottom of this post.
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Can...can I get up ye-
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Third time's a charm, I guess. >_>
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Whee~ First post entire thread that's not in some weird color~
First of all, it was obviously Pesco. Kilgamayan's meta tell of Pesco acting town = totally scum was actually true. I knew he was going to raise some flags the moment he took the game seriously. But then, think about it: You have a scum team made out of one complete newbie, one person who couldn't talk a paper bag into folding, and one person who is always scum, even when he's town. Someone has to pick up their game or it would be a landslide.
Note on Roles:
I was thinking of a good scum role that hasn't been used before, and came up with Janitor. On night one, the scumteam almost hit Serpentarius, and with the Doctor Janitored, Day 2 would have been vastly different when Sodium would come to claim Doctor. Janitor for this game was a one shot ability, and Sodium would learn the identity of who they killed.
I laughed every time Pesco aimed for Kiro. The way Serp's role worked in flavor was that since Serp was an immortal, she protected others by switching places with them, causing Scum to accidentally and ineffectively kill him instead. This obviously wouldn't work protect himself, since then the scum team knows who they're targeting. In effect, Serp couldn't protect himself, which threw everyone for a loop when he died. This is why the doctor is never suppose to claim except in situations like the end of day 2.
Also, a Vig was nice, but we always use dayvigs, which completely clears whoever it is. Nightvigs never get that satisfaction, so I went with that. And yes, it was an unlimited shot, which helped prevent the metarole clear on him. though, I'm thinking next time I'll make the delay longer so that you can only shoot once every other night.
This setup was balanced! The only problem was that people on MotK like to lynch people for being bad players, and most of the scumteam was comprised of bad players. I'm surprized no one even gave a second glance at Pesco's switch from Sodium to Seniwac until the end of day four. You people had the ability to pin that on him day 3 to end the game there, but instead you steamrolled four vanilla townies before looking in his direction. I'm sort of disappointed at this, and it reflects mostly what I was saying at the begining of the previous game.
And No Kiro. You can't get up until you finish licking up that jam.
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Oh thank God. I was almost set to vote Kiro on the final day because his arguments against me had been mostly crap and it seemed like he had been setting me up as a LYLO mislynch. >_>
Also the pesco meta thing was largely a joke. Some of his posts were legit good, too, so I expect that from him in every game from now on. Same goes for UK.
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Oh thank God. I was almost set to vote Kiro on the final day because his arguments against me had been mostly crap and it seemed like he had been setting me up as a LYLO mislynch. >_>
On that note, I thought I was going to make it too impossible for Pesco to win when I told Rou my Ruling on if the Vig happens after he dies or not. Turns out it didn't matter anyway. I don't know why he was so deadset on killing Kiro.
Also, I'm leaving it to Pesco or the rest of the scumteam to post the scumchat quicktopic.
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Also, since I don't have to worry about people going "Kilga is using meta! Get him!" anymore, my scum play is to put my ass on the line, not my buddies'. Look at PC-98, SWR and Bamboo Forest, three games in a row where I was scum. All three games I came under heavy fire on Day 2 whilst my buddies were allowed to coast on through to the victory. Thinking I would throw buddies away to win the game myself is silly. :V
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The only problem was that people on MotK like to lynch people for being bad players, and most of the scumteam was comprised of bad players.
That pretty much sums up the game. The obligatory irony being that the one good player in scumteam got found out exactly for playing well.
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The delicious jam of victory. *lap lap* *gets up*
Good shot Rou, heck there was only one good target at that point. Dang your role is beast in retrospect. 3 Town directed kills is no laughing matter and you surely got Serp's protect the Night he died especially since he couldn't self-protect.
Just wanted to say that my switching from Sodium to KGH in Day 2 was just trying to throw a curve into all the people voting Sodium. Cuz even if Sodium flipped Scum, we wouldn't be able to distinguish any bussing Scum from the Townies there. Course, I was putting myself at risk, but I thought we needed a bit of a jolt and unpredictability. Pesco switching off to go KGH surprised me and his reasoning was good and I did initially pass it off as too risky to be Scum before backtracking off of that on Day 4.
Kilga, I said what I said about you partially because I believed it and partially because I wanted to see if Pesco would react in any way and try to push harder on you. I was fishing for reactions, but by the end of Day 4, when I said I had cleared you, I really meant it then. It was finally something tangible in the sense that "even if Kilga were a superbusser, this sequence is completely illogical from a superbusser's point of view." I second guessed you for awhile, but you were very responsive and I found a point that I could deem satisfactory so if it came down to LYLO in Day 5, I never would have voted you.
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o
k!
For the record I probably would have voted pesco in the end, but I was giving you serious consideration, including the idea that you'd guess Serp would protect you (because it's you) and forgo the NK to make it look like you were attacked and saved. >_>
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For the record I probably would have voted pesco in the end, but I was giving you serious consideration, including the idea that you'd guess Serp would protect you (because it's you) and forgo the NK to make it look like you were attacked and saved. >_>
I would have done the same thing if I were in your shoes. Hell, if I were really Scum, I might have taken that chance. Which is why I was worried about superbussers because from my own point of view, I saw how reasonably easy it could be for one to win.
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i must now say i was the credit to team
my excellent gambit somehow worked
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Nice shot Roukan. But you're not a true bro anymore(Quicktopic stuff.)
Edible is now the sole TRUE BRO.
I'm pretty sure it's alright to post this, seeing as this is the point of the thing.
http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/3y4bdEbbfj7
Yeah, most of my mistakes are actual genuine mistakes. My performance in this game can be described as "Being Dumb and Getting Lucky". Also, I was going to switch to Zengar earlier, but for various reasons, I didn't. =V
And yeah, Serp should've been the target for N1. I was pretty useless after Day 1 anyways, so umu's suspicion of me wouldn't have made much of a difference, and it would've opened up a lot of doc claim shenanigans.
And I still don't get why Pesco didn't do the N2 NK. =V
Oh, and MVP goes to Kiro.
What Gambit? All you were was an easy target. And don't say "BY SUCKING, I WILL ATTRACT SCUM", because that's a shitty gambit in the first place.
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What Gambit? All you were was an easy target. And don't say "BY SUCKING, I WILL ATTRACT SCUM", because that's a shitty gambit in the first place.
can't really be called shitty if it got both you and zengar
not to mention i started the pesco mini-thing on day 4
:smug:
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...What? Zengar was just waffle waffle waffle the whole time.
Also, you forgot that part where it attracted a bunch of town.
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...What? Zengar was just waffle waffle waffle the whole time.
Also, you forgot that part where it attracted a bunch of town.
uhh yeah and that's what got him called out
of course it'll attract town. gambits aren't perfect you know
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Your "gambit" didn't catch me. It was the switch to Zengar late, Zengar stuff, doc counterclaim, etc.
If it attracts town, then lynching everyone that attacks you will probably fail horribly. Once again, it was a shitty gambit because... it didn't do anything. Attacking you was a null tell.
And Zengar waffled on everyone.
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Dammit, 2 out of 3 and managing to look townie and I completely miss the last scum.
Honorary scum is obviously KGH.
UK is easier to mislead? Yeah, nice try Pesco, I was on Sodium like hell even after the doc claim.
Oh, and I'm saying 3 charges just for the Alice fakeclaim doctor reference. =3 Although it might make it more believable...
You did that on purpose? What the hell, that was fucking retarded.
And you honestly thought I'd get wagoned pesco? After how well I was playing it was almost impossible.
And NK K4U over me? What the hell Pesco? That would have been like, auto lose for you since I wasn't voting Seni.
Well, glad to know you have such a high opinion of me, Pesco
/me rolls her eyes.
KGH, your gambit was bad and you should feel bad. I even gave you the BotD and you broke that. It's amazing I realized you were town...
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The only true Mafia bro is a man named smodge13.
Also Zengar and Sodium would have been busted without your "help", thank you very much. There's a reason no one wanted to see you in LYLO.
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it all stems from the D1 claim
also i'll stop being smugnoxious now
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OH YEAH! Why did everyone and their mother have some "gut read" on me? I mean, seriously, it's not like I was doing anything scummy for once!
it all stems from the D1 claim
also i'll stop being smugnoxious now
Well, what it actually did was nothing except cause your eventual mislynch. we can't know if we would have caught Sodium and Zengar without you doing that, but given we didn't catch them because you did, I'm leaning we would have done fine.
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Nyeh, I wasn't expecting anyone to believe it. I was hoping the doc would be eager to counterclaim, and do so immediately. Unfortunately, that failed, but I got lucky by people somehow believing it, and then Edible's gambit. Serp then counterclaimed, and yeah. I thought Pesco would immediately shoot Serp(or Kilga), but...
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Nyeh, I wasn't expecting anyone to believe it. I was hoping the doc would be eager to counterclaim, and do so immediately. Unfortunately, that failed, but I got lucky by people somehow believing it, and then Edible's gambit. Serp then counterclaimed, and yeah. I thought Pesco would immediately shoot Serp(or Kilga), but...
I figured as much. Serp played it smart. I'm not even sure if he had to claim at the end of the day, but it helped that he did.
I just wish Edible had been scum...I would have had perfect accuracy T_T
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Bleh, I am not happy with the way I played at all. I'm glad it worked out in the end though~ Good game everyone.
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OH YEAH! Why did everyone and their mother have some "gut read" on me? I mean, seriously, it's not like I was doing anything scummy for once!
I have a gut feeling this is part of that "UGW first impression" of yours that I mentioned before (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=2083.msg80368#msg80368).
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And I still don't get why Pesco didn't do the N2 NK. =V
He did. It was Kiro.
Night Actions~
Night 1:
Kill: Umu
Jan: Umu
Doc: Kiro
Vig: No one
Night 2:
Kill: Kiro
Doc: Kiro
Vig: Kitten4U
Night 3:
Kill: Serpentarius
Doc: Kiro
Vig: Edible?
Night 4:
Kill: Kiro
Vig: Pesco
Yes, Serp Protected Kiro Every night. Partially because Kiro was the most likely NK target, Partially because He couldn't protect himself if he needed to. I remember somewhere in the Scumchat, Pesco said that if it weren't for Rou's Vig kill, He would have targeted Kiro Again night 3, which would have made his inevitable defeat justified by bad night play. :V Serp's play really was top quality given the situation he was in.
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Hmm? Don't tell me I have an always scum template...
I thought I was just more erratic than anything.
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I like how "top quality doc play" has been reduced to "target Kiro every night".
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OH YEAH! Why did everyone and their mother have some "gut read" on me? I mean, seriously, it's not like I was doing anything scummy for once!
*shrug* I say a lot of shit at times, but it only really means anything if I have the vote to back it up. I dunno, I'm trying to not let anyone slip under the radar (like having the tiniest bit of suspicion on Serp even after he said he protected me), but at the same time, I'd hope it wouldn't actually degenerate into paranoia and I banked on it with at least Kilga and UK snapping back at me. And I think people taking the time to debunk or ridicule those theories gives me their take on it which helps convince me one way or the other.
[X] I'm an indecisive prick that needs to be punched in the (testicles/ovaries)
Cut: Whoa, I was protected Night 3??? That makes no sense to me. Rou's value as a Vig outweighed mine and if we got Rou announced as the protected one, it would at least eliminate any lingering worry he was Scum with a tweaked killing role.
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But it wasn't just you Kiro. It was Edible, Pesco (who was scum but still), Kilga, KGH...everyone really.
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Cut: Whoa, I was protected Night 3??? That makes no sense to me. Rou's value as a Vig outweighed mine and if we got Rou announced as the protected one, it would at least eliminate any lingering worry he was Scum with a tweaked killing role.
Yeah, but who ever nightkills Rou?
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This was the worst I have ever played in a Mafia game. My sincere apologies. Grats to the people who actually enabled Town to win.
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Finally got time to read through the quicktopic. Sorry Pesco, I was indeed busier, but only in spurts so I did manage to get stuff in during working hours (blame it on the economy). I think you guys reflected well on most of your mistakes in there and the planned mislynches looked good except for Rou's ability blowing through half of them quicker than you would have liked.
umu deserves some huge cred for nailing Zengar and Sodium correctly as Scum as well as saying KGH was probably Town. Very good stuff all by the mid of Day 1. For the amount of time he was able to play this game, I say he deserves MVP for getting those votes in first.
KGH: If you played it straight, there would have been far less doubt about you and your case on Pesco in Day 4 would have gotten more support instead of it being considered Too Little Too Late. Just look at that aspect of your game and you can see where you fowled
up. Also, don't self hammer if you're Town with no minimum requirement for a lynch. If there happened to be other Scum out there, you have to make them vote for you for a particular reason which Town could analyze the following Day.
Sorry I had Kilga and UK popping veins for a bit. Not the optimal way for me to be playing Town, but with the early going relatively smooth, I figured we couldn't get complacent so I jacked up everyone's anxiety to keep everyone relevant and prepare for the worst case scenario (which we almost got to). But you guys were admittedly solid through the entire game and I was half trying to find chinks in that gameplay when there really weren't any even when I said that several times during the game. Chew me out a little if you feel that's a terrible way for me to play.
I still think the Alice lynch was a better case to pursue than the Pesco lynch Day 3 after I found that post Suwako made in Day 1 voting UK. Sorry Suwako/Alice. *shrug*
Lol Edible, you should have seen that double facepalm I did after Day 2 ended. I just leaned back in my chair and cried out, OH MY GOD!
That being said, kudos to Serp for getting 1 successful protect in. It gave me the clout to fool around a little like I mentioned above. But I'll try not to do that again next time. And we seriously missed that hint about your Doc role when you revoted Sodium after Edible's gambit. That was smooth and your reason was good too. Gotta store that one for future reference.
K4U: Well, you did tunnel a bit and you asked us to smack you if you were, but we didn't because we can't coach you on how to play during the game. It never hurts to look around early on as it's obvious there are multiple Scum targets around to be found. I've made mistakes with assuming Scum accidentally slip a word out, but I got burned on it before (PC-98 Mafia) so I never use it as a primary reason anymore.
Rou had his role to clear him, but hey, if you have a virtually unfakable, unblockable, and unambiguously Town role like that, I can't see how a little tunneling and going by your gut instincts doesn't hurt. It worked out for us though and you made the right call in shooting Pesco in the end.
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Sorry I had Kilga and UK popping veins for a bit.
You did? I don't recall this
I'd also like to mention I at least called Alice town as well, despite the fact I didn't mind his lynch.
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I thought you were frustrated at us by Day 3, Day 4. We did it the dirty way and cleared Edible through a delayed Vig so you can't help but be frustrated for sitting around while who you think the last remaining Scum is gets to breathe for a little longer.
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I thought you were frustrated at us by Day 3, Day 4. We did it the dirty way and cleared Edible through a delayed Vig so you can't help but be frustrated for sitting around while who you think the last remaining Scum is gets to breathe for a little longer.
Mildly but I wasn't letting it get to me. I mean, it logically made sense. It was just a minor annoyance.
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N2 I might've protected myself if I had been allowed to, but I was well aware that scum might want to take the opportunity to NK Kiro since they'd expect me to cover myself. Plus, there's a lot of WIFOM when the claimed doc claims to have protected himself and then there's no NK, especially when scum aren't obligated to kill. If he claims to have protected someone else, then that at least produces confirmed townies after his flip.
As for N3, I figured that if scum didn't attack me, they weren't going to attack Roukanken. As far as power roles went, I figured that the doc was more dangerous to scum than the vig, so if scum went after a power role, it was going to be me. On the off chance that scum went after a player rather than a role, it would've been Kiro, so that's where I put my protection. Had I been allowed to protect myself, I definitely would have done so.
Anyway, while I'm thinking about it, I should point out that these weird gambits that are getting a lot of hate right now aren't all bad. As Kiro has said, his switch off Sodium D2 wasn't entirely sincere, and in my first full game here, I played scummy as the cop to fend off an NK, and got approval for it after the game. Granted, some gambits are better than others, and there's no better way to judge that than seeing which ones work and which ones don't, and maybe Edible's and KGH's were bad, but using some ploys to shake things up help make the game less formulaic and put scum off balance.
Also, reading the quicktopic and seeing Pesco and Sodium speculating about a doc claim was hilarious.
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Wow, they thought I was a SK?
That's odd.
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I gotta say
After I looked at this game and saw Zengar flip scum
I cried inside at myself. :(
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Hm, just thinking, but do you guys think that Pesco would've been able to pull the win if he wasn't killed by Roukan?
Oh, and we forgot/should've told Zengar to cop claim(Pesco expressed disappointment at himself when he realized this). Well, more like I said "PREPARE T3H FAKE CLAIMZ", and then Pesco said "lolno, just say VT". He did neither. =V Oh, and in some other chats I had with Pesco, he said he was a "bad team mate". Isn't it sad, Pesco? ;_;
Suwako:Blame Kanako. Simple Easy Solution.
KGH: You're an SK the same reason Edible is a Jester;it makes no sense, so it MUST be true. See how that works?
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Oh, I do that for everything anyway.
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Anyway, while I'm thinking about it, I should point out that these weird gambits that are getting a lot of hate right now aren't all bad.
Not all weird gambits are bad. Ineffective gambits that confuse the town are bad (if you're a townie)
Which is what KGH did.
Hm, just thinking, but do you guys think that Pesco would've been able to pull the win if he wasn't killed by Roukan?
No, even if I had been fooled, I doubt that Kilga would have been, nor would Rou. It might have ended in Kilga vs. Pesco haiku off, but honestly, I'd probably have swung to pesco anyway. Especially since Rou probably would have killed Kilga if he didn't kill pesco.
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people here will label as any kind of anti-town role if you're not playing well enough. Almost every game, someone has to ask if Jester was an included win condition, usually on day one, even if it's stated in the rules which win conditions actually do exist. Even if you have absolutely no ties to flipped mafia, there's still the Serial killer option.
In short - MotK Players will always like to punish bad players over finding alignment.
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Bah, UK. All gambits confuse town at som point or another!
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Bah, UK. All gambits confuse town at som point or another!
Not good ones. Or rather, good ones resolve that confusion BEFORE a townie is mislynched because of the gambit and also provide some other benefit. Which yours did not.
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In short - MotK Players will always like to punish bad players over finding alignment.
In fairness, there did exist a legit case against Seniwac.
It should also be noted that, through most of Day 4, my vote was on Seniwac more because I didn't trust him to make an important LYLO decision than any other reason.
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In short - MotK Players will always like to punish bad players over finding alignment.
In fairness, there did exist a legit case against Seniwac.
It should also be noted that, through most of Day 4, my vote was on Seniwac more because I didn't trust him to make an important LYLO decision than any other reason.
Not a good way to play. It'd be better to avoid LYLO altogether in the position we were in as opposed to stop someone from getting there.
In fact, Seniwac would have been better as an N1 vig Rou.
Seriously.
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Eh. It would've been very hard to drop the case on K4U. Besides, last-minute cases on Pesco were made because of his actions regarding what I did as a Walking WIFOM Dispensor.
I've got plans for the next game too~
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Eh. It would've been very hard to drop the case on K4U. Besides, last-minute cases on Pesco were made because of his actions regarding what I did as a Walking WIFOM Dispensor.
I've got plans for the next game too~
Lovely.
For your sake, I really hope I'm not a vig.
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In hindsight, of course.
But Rou did state that he felt nobody was suspicious enough to warrant death.
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Suwako:Blame Kanako. Simple Easy Solution.
Fuck you. >:[
(Oh yeah, good job town, that game was fun to watch.)
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Four notes and I'll leave.
1 @Pesco - The comment I wanted to make earlier turned out to be false anyway.
That comment (already touched on by now :( ) was--
This is the first game I can remember where Kiro-Town was still alive by D3 regardless of how well he played.
From where I was sitting this wouldn't have been a bad game to suspect Kiro-scum tbh, but that doesn't ever seem to matter for scum other than me.
2 @donut - You said you were going to watch how some people were going to play. Did you keep up with it?
3 @Heniwac - Thanks for helping me keep my site dignity ^.^
4 @Zakeri - You're very good at writing enjoyable flavor. gj
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Seniwac: Your gambit was a load of crap. If it was effective, I should have been lynched on day3. Anything later just shows how much you costed town.
Kilga: Frack you. Playing pro-town like this does nothing for ME.
Regarding night actions, if the vig kill was only flipped at day instead of lynch, I would have shot Kiro again. If he was protected, Rou get called SK. After his flip, Serp get doubted.
If I wasn't shot at LyLo, my play was to call Kilga for his congrats doc and doc ffffff comments. Serp telegraphed that he couldn't self prot and I was going to hold that against him.
Sodium did a fine job on his own this game. Give him the credit he's due.
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Dropped in for moments or two, so I guess I have to congratulate town. It really was an interesting game to watch; I think K4U played pretty nicely too for a partial first.
And I think the flavour in this game was the most enjoyable since Kiro's Night Festival, good job Zakeri.
And I have never been lucky enough to witness a successful town gambit first-hand; come to think of it 2 out of 4 times I have played as scum I made gambits at the very end only to cover up silly mistakes. So yeah, KGH, playing normally would actually be better.
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UK: I admit alot of the gut read could be called Too Townie. First day play seemed too perfect such as the moment you made a 180 regarding my case. D2 seemed like a case of really hard bussing. And I never saw the Edible case. Really weak points all around but I didn't want to use it so I said "gut."
Pesco: You would've been lynched if it weren't for that meddling Edible!
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Therefore you fucked it up. Don't do it again.