Mafia History Mafia - Game Over

[Kiva-la]

Extremely tired, my apologies if some things I say don't make sense.

First off, to address some of the things directed at me.

I could guess what a scum-Kyon would do. HE WOULD FREAKING HAMMER HIMSELF BECAUSE YOU PUT HIM AT L-1.

I'd never hammer myself, but whatever, that's up for you to believe. I don't care. Moving on.

@Mai in general: So, uh, you're attacking me for ignoring people accusing me of my behaviour being scummy. Well what the hell am I meant to do against that? People are stating that they think I'm scummy, so you want me to waste everybody's time arguing against that? I'd rather carry on trying to scumhunt kthxbai.

#465/467: MISREP. MISREP I SAY. Or whatever the appropriate word is. Seriously, what the hell do you want from me? People were expressing that I was acting scummy. There were no questions directed at me. So what's the best thing I can do? Carry on as I were. Would you seriously have rather seen me go around screaming "OMG I'M NOT SCUM YOU RETARDS SO STOP SAYING THAT MY ACTIONS ARE SCUMMY"? And seriously, #465 in particular. The fuck? The Comedian didn't like me, whatever. He said that he missed my questions, so I restated them for him. YES I AM TOTALLY DEFLECTING SHIT OFF OF ME BY RESTATING QUESTIONS WHEN ASKED TO. And #467, that was me stating my scumpicks for Monoe (or somebody else I can't remember) so uh... I was responding to Light apparently with that? Whatever you want, 姫様.

This is Kyon's play. I have yet to see him post a full blown case on anyone this game, that hasn't included the words "I Agree With..."

I have said "I agree with" ONCE throughout this entire game. And that wasn't even related to a case. Please point out any other times I said that.

Take for example his Day 1 voting. He starts the day on the Sailor Moon wagon with me. He then switches over to the Prinny wagon without even a qualm. No hesitation.

Uh, yeah. Because I thought they were both scum.

Also, I like the well thought out, original cases from Mai on people that aren't viewed by the rest of the town as the scummiest person.
In other words, I bellive Mai to be Scum. Screw the rest of you.

Anyway, other shit that's been happening!
People not thinking Mai is scum: To you I say "Screw you too."
Recent events haven't done much to change who I think of as scum. (Mai, Anon, Raito, CATS/Chitose (Goddamnit I need to get this reread done, like, now)
So, uh, I'll be rereading Chitose. Ask any questions and I'll try my best to answer them.

[Sasword]

Kyon's rage is reminding me of the Serial Killer from Darker than Black.

[Sasword]

(So we're clear, that was a joke based on a past post of Kyon's, not a serious accusation.)

[Decade]

If I'm being perfectly honest, I don't give a shit about this game anymore. ConfirmationBiasman can think what he wants, honestly. Though, really, I'd LOVE to see where I changed all my reads. I went into the reread suspecting Anonymous, Chitose, Kyon, and CATS. I came out suspecting all those except CATS, and instead Light.

I've already pointed out the quote where you were pushing a Mai/Kyon theory in the same post as your vote for Kyon. You weren't pushing for Crocker originally either. Crocker appears to have taken Mai's spot in your reads. You also changed from sounding confident and assured in your reads to unsure and waffling on who could possibly be bad.

Your response to my case comes off as someone who got caught red-handed and isn't sure how to react. You knew you were caught. You knew what you did looked bad. Instead of saying yes, I look bad and should try to explain myself, you said my case was 'uninteresting' and still wanted me to come to you. Your lack of trying doesn't come off as frustrated town. It feels like scum apathy. I did ask you questions, and if you would bother to read my case you could find them and answer them. And I will not take any god damn accusations that after constant questioning and huge cases with more content then the rest of you combined that I am being LAZY, and especially not from YOU.

As for what you should consider, let me think. Oh, maybe the fact that I could easily have NOT pointed out Kyon was at L-1, said in a hypothetical scum QT that Kyon should self hammer RIGHT NOW, and then :trollfaced: as you all lost discussion. I'm sure you'll call that WIFOM. I call it "do you really think I'm that much of a dumbass to pass that up?"

I call it you trying to look town while setting up the hammer. You could easily have not pointed anything out, and been looked at with suspicion the next day, but because you pointed out Kyon was at L-1 it gives the illusion there was town intent behind your action. If no one looked closely enough at you, it would have been passed off as not suspicious.

Cut by the Serial Killer from DtB? You should get on that reread Slave Boy, since you're still the likely lynch today.

[Kick Hopper]

Then by all means, lynch me. I'm unlikely to be able to keep up with this game after Tuesday anyway. I'd claim scum right here if it wouldn't be tasteless (and a lie). But, whatever, string me up if you'd like.

If you feel like restating those questions I might give them a look. Maybe my flip will give you some magical ~*~connections~*~ you need.

Also, are you seriously stating that because I've concluded Mai can't be scum with Kyon that this is scummy? That's...just...amazing. That's really the only word I can come up with for that.

[Kiva-la]

Mai: Scum. Calling it now. I don't care what you think.
Anonymous: Little to no original content and whatever else I said before. His latest vote on Mai was pretty much a reworded version of my post before his.
Light: Also little to no original content as well as whatever else I said before.
CATS: Sparse activity, jumped on leading wagons D1/D2.

Chitose: Seemed really wishy washy in regards to me/The Comedian. Ended D1 with a jump onto the Prinny wagon.
Started D2 with this brilliant post.

I feel that Kyon look the worst D1

This suggests pretend scumhunting on Light's part in the most blatant and sure way, and I think he deserves the vote more than the other two above who I find strange.

##Vote: Light

Cheerleading yay?
Copying pretty much what I said about Sailor Moon in #157 is still weird to me.

Also, this sort of associative scum-finding is pretty dubious

:V

In other words, with CATS' D3 action so far, Chitose looks scummier than him.

Kyon's rage is reminding me of the Serial Killer from Darker than Black.

でしょう？

[OOO]

Apologies, having computer troubles.  Analysis from hurried read:  Disagree with Cage's claim that Mai and Kyon can't both be scum.  Mai's flipflop on Kyon makes no sense for scum or town regardless of Kyon's alignment, but as it's horrible and I have a hard time imagining a townie's opinion of another player swinging so drastically based on a townflip under the given reasoning, considering it a likely scumtell whatever Kyon's flip.  Such strangeness tends to indicate scum connection.  Mai probably looks worse with Kyon scum, not sure whether Kyon looks better or worse with Mai scum.  Still preferring Kyon lynch.

Protoman:  Kyon's case on Mai was actually the other reason I had for naming Kyon and Mai as likelier scum together than either of them and Anonymous, but I forgot to explicitly spell that out in my post.  The points he raises are true, and I believe he's right that Mai's scum, but I have a hard time seeing the rapid shift of opinion as town-minded.  A bad case on scum is really no better than a bad case on town.  The latter could be scum looking to bag a mislynch, and the former could be bussing for the sake of bussing.  Even if Sailor Moon had flipped scum, I'd be looking at Mai as a possible scumbuddy, so Sailor Moon's townflip shouldn't change much.

Basically, I see Mai and Kyon suddenly dropping everything in order to go at each other when both are looking like likely lynches and it looks like mutual hard bussing to try and earn town cred from the other's scum flip.

Anonymous looks no better, but Mai looks worse.  He's a more distant third priority.  After a short skim, CATS contribution looks decent, will have to comb over it during the night.

[Decade]

Comedian, tl;dr Protoman thinks Cage is scum and Cage has given up on playing. Please reread Cage and state opinions on that as soon as you can. Protoman will attempt to enter your computer's mainframe and delete the corrupted files.

Cage, I would like for that to happen. You deserve all the votes on you for your gambit. Sadly even now people hate Kyon more. Sigh.

[Faiz]

@Cage: I would assume that there are still at least 2 scum on the original Prinny wagon.
 
That is something the SM flip doesn't change for me.

[Kick Hopper]

Try to be more persuasive Protoman! I think you can do it!

Anyway, Mai, do you have a more specific number than at least two? Or is it still two, three, or four?

[Faiz]

Try to be more persuasive Protoman! I think you can do it!

Anyway, Mai, do you have a more specific number than at least two? Or is it still two, three, or four?

I won't and can't speculate that because I don't know how large a scum team is or how many scum teams there are.

[Kick Hopper]

Fair enough. Obviously I'm basing my assumptions off a 4:12 set up, and could be entirely wrong. Was just curious what you thought.

[Faiz]

That's a possible outcome, and with that setup anywhere from 2-3 scum would be on the wagon.
 
But this line of discussion is useless.
 
Any other more useful questions?

[Punch Hopper]

I am having better question to Mai.

Which two?

As it is standing, "Two algae on Prinny Wagons." Meaning nothing besides "I am believing Prinny is city." And such a observation is, to say least, late.

[Decade]

Mai can you please stop answering Cage's questions long enough to do a read of him similar to what you did with Kyon? Or give Protoman any hope that you have actually looked at his cases? Protoman would cry if he had the ability to. Same question for CATS since he's here now. And Protoman echo's CATS's question.

[Faiz]

Prinny (: , CATS, , Mr. Crocker, Kyon, Chitose Karasuma, John Cage, The Comedian,
 
These are the players still alive on the wagon.
 
I believe I have named Comedian, Kyon and Crocker as my top suspects.
 

 

[OOO]

Protoman will attempt to enter your computer's mainframe and delete the corrupted files.

Huh.  It hasn't crashed at all since this post.  (Never mind, just did as I was previewing, and once more as I tried to open up the browser again.)

Anyway, your Cage case.  AtE and giving up are sadly nulltells, but I can give my opinions on the rest.

Alright, I think that voting Kyon to L-1 while telling folks not to hammer isn't necessarily scummy.  It'd make some sense if Cage strongly believes Kyon to be scum and strongly believes Mai to be town, because while it allows Kyon to hammer himself and deny the town the rest of the day, it's also possible that during the rest of the day, the town might come around to lynching Mai instead.  Requires a pretty strong read to be justified, and takes control out of the hands of the town, but it can still be town-intended.  Thing is, I don't see this line of reasoning from Cage, so it just looks like sloppy play, which is scummy insofar as bad play is always scummy.

As for the D1 wagon hop from Sailor Moon to Prinny, that's based on Monoe's wagon analysis, right?  Which, for it to have been a scum strategy, relies on a Kyon scum flip, rather than your other picks of Anonymous and Chitose.  Makes sense, and if you believe yourself to be in danger of NK tonight, it also makes sense to point it out and ask for others to acknowledge it so that the case can be carried after your death, but it makes a Kyon lynch a higher priority just to make sure the case is valid in the first place.

I can't find where Cage promoted a Mai/Kyon scumteam.  If he did, and then changed his opinion to believing that such a pairing was impossible without suitably solid reasoning, that would be an independent scumtell regardless of anything else.

This is the entirety of your case, right?

[Faiz]

My read on Cage has been fairly obvtown.
 

[Kick Hopper]

Hurm? Why Comedian, Mai?

Anyway, as for the Kyon to L-1 thing, I'm not even going to pretend that it was some great plan or anything. You're right, it was sloppy play, though I will state I had a strong scum read on him at the point I voted him. I also didn't know what I was putting him at lynch wise, but I went back and checked. Since I hadn't noticed I had put him to L-1, I figured others might not have either. I was PRETTY sure I wasn't hammering him, though. Still, sloppy as you said.

Anyway, I softly promoted Mai/Kyon when I saw Kyon posting his discomfort with Mai having a town read of him at the start of the day. I stated that this looked a lot like Kyon saying "don't DO that, scumbuddy". That said, their D1 interactions don't feel coordinated at all.

@Mai: What have I done that's obvious town? I've actually been fairly lackluster this game and it's been getting worse as of late. I'm still trying a little bit, but I really demotivated, and if I'm being cold about it, that makes me at the least a liability and also slightly more likely scum. Particularly since my demotivation is unfortunately timed closely with someone making a case on me, though I'll at least maintain the two aren't linked. Just lots going on.

[Decade]

For Comedian.

Kyon's post makes me feel nervous about a Mai/Kyon connection. It feels a lot like Kyon sees this coming and is trying to distance. Note that he seems most nervous about Mai calling him town "unsupported". This reads a lot like "Fuck, scumbuddy, don't DO that"

Also, for you, Protoman. So far D1 I'm not seeing a Mai/Kyon connection. ESPECIALLY not one compatible with Chitose/Kyon. Also, while I'm thinking about it...what's scummy about my conclusions being similar to Monoe's? Hell, I'm pretty sure I SAID OUTRIGHT they were.

These are things that happened. More case on Cage is here and here along with Kyon. No that is not the basis of my entire huge case. There is a slightly more tl;dr here.

Mai: That's great. You also had a scum read on Sailor Moon and a Town read on Kyon. Don't just give me a sentence. GO READ.

[Decade]

I have never felt so demotivated myself as right now. None of you are reading a god damn thing I'm saying. I pray the scum team actually kills me tonight.

[Decade]

Hurm? Why Comedian, Mai?

Anyway, as for the Kyon to L-1 thing, I'm not even going to pretend that it was some great plan or anything. You're right, it was sloppy play, though I will state I had a strong scum read on him at the point I voted him. I also didn't know what I was putting him at lynch wise, but I went back and checked. Since I hadn't noticed I had put him to L-1, I figured others might not have either. I was PRETTY sure I wasn't hammering him, though. Still, sloppy as you said.

Anyway, I softly promoted Mai/Kyon when I saw Kyon posting his discomfort with Mai having a town read of him at the start of the day. I stated that this looked a lot like Kyon saying "don't DO that, scumbuddy". That said, their D1 interactions don't feel coordinated at all.

@Mai: What have I done that's obvious town? I've actually been fairly lackluster this game and it's been getting worse as of late. I'm still trying a little bit, but I really demotivated, and if I'm being cold about it, that makes me at the least a liability and also slightly more likely scum. Particularly since my demotivation is unfortunately timed closely with someone making a case on me, though I'll at least maintain the two aren't linked. Just lots going on.

THE SCUM IS TELLING YOU HOW SCUMMY HE IS AND THAT YOU SHOULD LYNCH HIM. Oh, totally still obvtown right? This is disgraceful. Towniness and scumminess is a continuum! You have to reassess your reads every day. You need to constantly be reading what they do and comparing it to what they have done. You can't just let yourself get sucked into clearing someone forever because they were obvtown once. THIS IS HOW TOWN LOSES SO MANY GAMES.

Mai, you need to stop just answering questions with statements and include your reasons why you think like you do. You need to rethink things through and post them as you're thinking them! No one can follow your thought process, therefore it looks like you don't have one. "This person is obvtown." WHY? "There are two scum on this wagon." OKAY, WHO ARE THEY? WHY DO YOU THINK IT'S THEM?! This is so that later we can look back and see "Oh, she did think it this way, therefore she is not just making things up!" STOP BEING SO VAGUE! AND REREAD CAGE DAMNIT HE IS SCUM.

[Sasword]

Protoman. Your vote implies that you want Anon lynched more than Cage, which seems odd considering how much conviction you have on Cage. Care to elaborate on your priorities?

I'm going to go re-read Cage right now.

[Sasword]

Yeah, uh. I pretty much got nothing out of the re-read, and I'm noting that there's less opinion disconnect than I previously thought. I don't think Cage is a very good lynch until we get more actual flips, since the only thing about him that has irked me significantly is his D3 up to so far (as compared to others who look horribad to me on all days).

[Decade]

Protoman used CalmShld! Protoman gained +50 armor!

Anonymous just hasn't been here to do any visible corrupting. He is still a lurking virus and his absence does nothing to change Protoman's feelings about him. Monoe can replace Headless 4chan's name with Chitose and the same applies.  They can both duck and try to get lose in Protoman's rage but Protoman doesn't forget that they are obvious viruses. What Monoe just added is why Protoman is not trying to lynch Cage now. Protoman sees you through piercing shades, he knows you can't see what he sees so clearly.

Sigh, now that Protoman rereads what Comedian was saying Protoman thinks he misunderstood some of his points. Cage may be more likely to be a virus if Kyon is a virus, but Protoman believes Cage to be a virus regardless of SOS Slave Boy. Protoman believed Cage was a virus before Day 3 began, based on the lack of night analysis and the way Cage handled his Day 2 wagons.

[Kick Hopper]

Oh, you spend all this time extolling everyone to call me scum but you...don't actually want me lynched now? Well, whatever, I guess if that floats your boat. I'll still note that you still seem to have been completely disinterested in anything except your rhetoric about how terrible I am. Is it truly that gargantuan an effort to restate any questions you have for me? Does this prove a point for you or something?

I'm admittedly having my curiosity piqued about this supposed disconnect everyone keeps bringing up. Anyone care to elaborate what that's about?

[Decade]

Don't taunt me. You can see very well that there aren't enough believers yet. Is it truly that gargantuan an effort for you to read what I've accused you of and defend yourself accordingly? I imagine the answer is yes since you expect everything to be handed on a silver platter to you. I don't have time to cater to your scummy whims. I'm busy trying to show the actual town where the scum are.

[Kick Hopper]

I honestly think you're just scared. Scared your case will fall apart if you restate it. Most of your extollations have been "REREAD CAGE" at this point. Most people aren't coming to the conclusions you are. If the actual town doesn't seem to see it, perhaps it's not actually there? How about this. At this point I feel decent enough to at least give your...ah..."case" did you call it? Well, I suppose if you're loose with terms. Anyway, this "case" a look. Give me a link to it and I'll answer whatever you like. Or is that too much of a scummy whim for you?

[Kick Hopper]

EBWOP: And before people get the wrong idea, "actual town" was a parallelism of Protoman's terminology. I should have probably put it in quotes.

[Faiz]

Can we stop this town on town shit, and focus on the real scum, Kyon?