Miscellaneous Questions Thread 3 - Ask Question, Receive Answer

[Drake]

Danmaku is danmaku. Spell cards are danmaku, but danmaku isn't necessarily in the form of a spell card. There's physical attacks and using gadgets and random objects as well; danmaku is basically just anything you can use as an attack.

Though, the rules are a bit conflicting throughout the series when you consider the games versus manga versus literature. In manga and literature, sometimes spell cards are explicitly declared while sometimes there aren't, but the actual spell card rules dictate that a danmaku game ends when you run out of predefined spells. If you really take everything at face value you could just say "why not use as many non-spell-cards as you want"?

[Ikari]

Well, in a way, it's not uncommon to see in many works the characters attack with magic and stuff (For example, Reimu throwing amulets) and then unleashing a spellcard later on. (Fantasy Seal!) I personally think of the spellcards as being especially powerful, so they limit them with nonspells; Kinda like the Yukari fight in PCB or Mamizou in TD; Imagine her battle with no breather nonspells.

[Kaze_Senshi]

danmaku battles are nonlethal, yes

http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Perfect_Memento_in_Strict_Sense/Reimu_Hakurei
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Perfect_Memento_in_Strict_Sense/Draft_of_Spell_Card_Rules

Whether there's an actual sense of damage or not doesn't really ever matter. Generally it's assumed that danmaku play hurts in a mostly slapstick sort of way, at best.

Aahhh, in my mind Reimu always had her body cut in two when I die with her in Ran's Ultimate Buddhist
Anyway thanks for the answer 

Well, in a way, it's not uncommon to see in many works the characters attack with magic and stuff (For example, Reimu throwing amulets) and then unleashing a spellcard later on. (Fantasy Seal!) I personally think of the spellcards as being especially powerful, so they limit them with nonspells; Kinda like the Yukari fight in PCB or Mamizou in TD; Imagine her battle with no breather nonspells.

I think that some of Ran's non-spell attacks are harder than her spellcards  :V

[AnonymousPondScum]

I think that some of Ran's non-spell attacks are harder than her spellcards  :V

Ditto with Udongein.

[Ikari]

I think that some of Ran's non-spell attacks are harder than her spellcards  :V

I think Marisa's spellcards in IN are a total joke yet I lose 2 lives per non-spells. You point is?  :wat:

[cuc]

Another question from the previous thread: What is Sanae's necklace?

Sanae is depicted with a necklace in two instances: UFO and SoPM.

UFO in-game portrait (ZUN) and promotional artwork (alphes) (Click to enlarge):



SoPM artwork (Masakichi) (Click to enlarge):


Sanae's necklace is probably inspired by necklaces commonly worn by people of Kofun period (3th to 7th century CE).

Man and priestess of Kofun period:


Masakichi may have added elements of African and Hmong necklace design to his artwork.

A Hmong necklace:

[Drake]

Just gotta mention that nobody would really ever even ask that sort of question if ZUN actually drew it in a way that didn't look flimsy and awkward :'D

[cuc]

No matter who drew it, people would ask "what the heck is that", because it's not something people expected to see on a shrine maiden, medieval or modern.

I've changed the Hmong necklace example to one that's closer to Masakichi's art.

[Goldom]

Okay I'm just full of questions. I don't know if anyone here can really speak to this one unless one of you worked on the translation patches, but I'll try anyway:

Why do the patches use such abnormal romanization of character names? The in-game titles give us Momizi, Huziwara, Syameimaru, etc etc. I know there are multiple ways to romanize Japanese, so they're valid enough I guess, but why go with such a non-standard method in the first place?

Oh, one other A patch question: I just recently remembered that wayyyy back when I patched everything, one of them offered two different translations, a literal and a localized version. I have no memory which game it was nor which I picked. Anyone know which that's for, and what differences there are?

EDDItttt: I'm an idiot and solved question #1 on my own. I suddenly remembered reading that that other romanization style (I don't recall the names right now, but the one that likes zi over ji and _ya over _ha) is often preferred by native Japanese speakers, and that made me wonder and go check... and yeah, those names are in English text in the original game, it's not the patch that did it. It's just been so long since I ever ran the games unpatched that I forgot. (In other news, good lord even MoF plays hideously without the vpatch! When I first put it in I thought it only really helped 6-8, but since I was just running the Japanese exe directly I discovered that now that I'm so used to it, it's quite noticeable even that late).

[cuc]

(EDIT: I see now you remembered.)

As a reference, the wiki has a list of all character name spellings.

The two most prominent methods of romanization are Hepburn (e.g. ja, tsu, sha) and Kunrei-shiki (e.g. zya, tu, sya).

Generally speaking, the Hepburn system is easier for Westerners to understand, while Kunrei-shiki is much easier for the Japanese to memorize.

The Japanese government has long established Kunrei-shiki as the standard format of romanization in Japan, except the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, which insisted to use Hepburn. That's why Japanese names are spelt with Hepburn on their passports. Despite the government's standardization effort, Hepburn is still very widely used in Japan even today.

In practice, this means Japanese people born post-war are first taught Kunrei-shiki in elementary school as part of compulsory education, and learn Hepburn later by themselves.

When it comes to Touhou, ZUN himself generally writes in Kunrei-shiki, but may slip into Hepburn from time to time.

[AnonymousPondScum]

Where the heck is Mystia supposed to be from?

We can pin down where the other European-sounding characters are from but Mystia is an anomaly.

[Delfigamer]

Where the heck is Mystia supposed to be from?

We can pin down where the other European-sounding characters are from but Mystia is an anomaly.

No.
Greek siren turned into a sparrow.

[Tengukami]

danmaku battles are nonlethal, yes

http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Perfect_Memento_in_Strict_Sense/Reimu_Hakurei
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Perfect_Memento_in_Strict_Sense/Draft_of_Spell_Card_Rules

Whether there's an actual sense of damage or not doesn't really ever matter. Generally it's assumed that danmaku play hurts in a mostly slapstick sort of way, at best.

At least strong enough to knock the ribbon out of Reimu's hair, or tear the dress sleeve of a mischievous fairy!

[AnonymousPondScum]

No.
Greek siren turned into a sparrow.

...!

That's just plain gnarly. :]

[Delfigamer]

http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Symposium_of_Post-mysticism/Koishi_Komeiji

And thats all? I thinked she's a bit more... existing. And now I'm wondered, how that transculent character can be an extra stage boss with more than 10 spellcards?
Didn't ZUN complicated it too much?

[Drake]

But she does exist. People just don't perceive her.

How the heroines managed to fight her is perplexing though. Sure, they might have known she existed because of Satori, and even Koishi having a danmaku fight is imaginable, but how she was even seen and communicated with (and then being able to remember it, possibly) is sort of uhhhh? Not to skip straight to lolakyu, but how she even gets the information about Koishi is questionable. The only main source she would have is Satori, but Akyu is a racist scaredy-cat and doesn't want to go down and talk to her directly either.

[Error]

I find that trying to make sense of such things causes headaches.

Well, I would think that either Akyu is an unreliable narrator, or Koishi's article in SoPM was originally written before the events of SA...or both?
SA hinted at the possibility of Koishi's 3rd eye opening again though, if that even means anything.

[Sagus]

I'd guess that Koishi actually heard form her sister (either by talking or through her subconscious thoughts about them, perhaps) about the humans that went to the underground, got interested (as much as she can be interested in anything) and dropped her "subconscious altering" field when facing the protagonists.

Akyuu probably knows about Koishi because Marisa, who helped with this edition of the book, knows about her and told Akyuu about her.

Also, I'd think that even if Koishi's 3rd eye is opening again, it hasn't really opened yet and it's mostly something only she herself would be able to notice, so it makes sense that it isn't mentioned in her Symposium article.

[Drake]

Akyuu probably knows about Koishi because Marisa, who helped with this edition of the book, knows about her and told Akyuu about her.

I just expressed how weird it is that nobody is supposed to perceive or communicate with her and/or remember an encounter with her, yet Akyu gets this information without talking to Satori. If Marisa was indeed the source, how she remembers this or suddenly knows all about Koishi is questionable. The only thing I can think of is that someone else learned of this information from Satori and then passed it to Akyu, or it came from someone else who knew Koishi before she shut herself off, or the information provided just isn't accurate (which is possible, but impractical and redundant as literature).

dropped her "subconscious altering" field when facing the protagonists.

If Koishi really has such a blank personality and just does whatever flows ("I saw you playing danmaku and I just had to join~!" etc), consciously dropping an ability that makes her unable to be consciously perceived sounds a bit odd. Not to try and shove the explanation off or anything, but it seems like it just answers a question with questions.

[Delfigamer]

Also, I'd think that even if Koishi's 3rd eye is opening again<...>

SoPM says that her eye isn't the thing being disabled. What is that is her soul, which is the core factor of youkai's existence.
So, youkai without soul is like human without body - barely existing.
That's what I've came to.

[Helepolis]

Another question from the previous thread: What is Sanae's necklace?

All this time I've been in Touhou, I just noticed it right now. Wow, I feel like smashing my head through 5 walls.

By the way on the topic of necklaces or similar: what is the key on Nitori's chest? I think I had asked this in the previous thread but it was never answered (most likely completely unknown).

[Tengukami]

Last time the question about Sanae's necklace was asked, I remember some digging turned up that it is mostly likely a rattle necklace - jewelry associated with those who work with the gods in many Asian cultures.

As for Nitori's key, the consensus seems to be that it goes to her workshop, but there's no evidence to support this; it's just a plausible explanation.

[AnonymousPondScum]

As for Nitori's key, the consensus seems to be that it goes to her workshop, but there's no evidence to support this; it's just a plausible explanation.

I think there's also a theory it's an all-purpose skeleton key, and that Mitori's matching key can do the opposite and lock anything.

Or maybe it was vicey-versey, I can't remember.

[Tengukami]

Uh, isn't Mitori a fan-made character?

[AnonymousPondScum]

Uh, isn't Mitori a fan-made character?

O rite. :V

Note to self: Do not attempt to be helpful before breakfast, especially while still in the throes of last night's turkey coma.

[Sagus]

I just expressed how weird it is that nobody is supposed to perceive or communicate with her and/or remember an encounter with her, yet Akyu gets this information without talking to Satori. If Marisa was indeed the source, how she remembers this or suddenly knows all about Koishi is questionable. The only thing I can think of is that someone else learned of this information from Satori and then passed it to Akyu, or it came from someone else who knew Koishi before she shut herself off, or the information provided just isn't accurate (which is possible, but impractical and redundant as literature).

It could be that some point after her encounter with Koishi Marisa talked with Satori again (Marisa does visit the underground from time to time, it seems, to go drink with Yuugi, and I doubt she wouldn't want to go borrow stuff from Chireiden while there), so maybe that's where she got the info. Although this is purely conjecture, of course.

If Koishi really has such a blank personality and just does whatever flows ("I saw you playing danmaku and I just had to join~!" etc), consciously dropping an ability that makes her unable to be consciously perceived sounds a bit odd. Not to try and shove the explanation off or anything, but it seems like it just answers a question with questions.

But since she'd have to do it do go play with the heroines, maybe she dropped her ability unconsioucly as well.
...I'm unsure on how much sense that makes.

SoPM says that her eye isn't the thing being disabled. What is that is her soul, which is the core factor of youkai's existence.
So, youkai without soul is like human without body - barely existing.
That's what I've came to.

But since she became like she is now by closing her eye, it seems both things are connected. Her eye opening might either be the cause of her recovering her old personality, or just an indicator that she's getting it back. Either way, it's a thing only she herself would notice.

[Delfigamer]

But since she became like she is now by closing her eye, it seems both things are connected. Her eye opening might either be the cause of her recovering her old personality, or just an indicator that she's getting it back. Either way, it's a thing only she herself would notice.

You didn't catch. Koishi hadn't even touched her 3rd eye. What she had done is disabling her soul ~= closing her mind.
Soul and body in youkai are connected differently from human, so, instead of becoming a vegetable, she have turned into an "imaginary companion".
I'be remembered an episode from "Doctor Who", when the Doctor descripes the perception filter (or whatever it's named). This device forces people to not pay attention to its target.
I think, soulless youkai is something similar. You don't pay to her more attention than to a rock beside a road. Thus, you won't remember encountering her as your mind won't count it as something worthing memorization.
However, this "filter" isn't absolute. As in "Doctor", one can specially watch this youkai, and eventually notice and memorize her. This youkai can do something attracting attention, and this increases odds of noticing her.
So, even Akyu, if told that, can revise her memory and notice an unknown girl. After all, Akyu cannot forget anything she had seen, even when she hadn't noticed what she had seen.
Something like that.

P.S. Man, it's a third time when instead of "quote" I press "report to moderator". ._.'

[Sagus]

Hm... both her article in SoPM and her profile from SA simply mentioned that she closed her eye/closed her own mind:

Profile: "Koishi closed the third eye that gave her the ability to manipulate the subconscious. As a result, she lost her ability to read others' minds, but in return she gained the ability to take action unconsciously. [...] Closing off that ability because it's hated is just running away, and is no different from closing off one's own mind. It's effectively pushing away others' feelings and shutting down."

SoPM: "However, she is a satori who had closed off her own mind, making her unable to read others'"

Doing that is what killed both her ability to read minds and her conscious thoughts. They never mention anything regarding changes on her soul, which I'd guess is something the omniscient game profile would mention if it was relevant. I'd guess that the reason she's not a vegetable is because she's constantly acting on unconscious impulses, not because she became an "imaginary friend". (SoPM: "Instead of considering her own actions before carrying them out, she often performs them on-the-spot. Just like raising your right arm, without realizing that you're doing so, she performs all of her actions unconsciously.")

I'm also pretty sure she's not soulless, specially since it seems that the process that closed her mind can be reversed, and youkai that actually lose their souls (like by being possessed by a vengeful spirit) have their unique personalities utterly destroyed and can never recover.

The way she disappears from other people's minds seems to be pretty much what you described, though; she can only be noticed if someone looks directly at her, and even then it's like she's just a small rock in the road (not worthy of attention). As Akyuu puts it, "Her presence cannot be felt by anyone unless she has entered their field of vision. Even if one can see her with their eyes, she would still be thought of as non-existent. When she disappears from the field of vision, she is immediately forgotten."

[Starxsword]

About Koishi: There is really no real contradiction with the protagonists being able to remember her and people not able to remember her. Koishi is a person who has no presence, so you cannot detect her. You can still see her, so it isn't like she is invisible. The explanation is that she is like a rock, you can see rocks, but you don't normally pay attention to them.
You can still remember her, but she would be a mundane memory, something that you would just forget afterwards. That said, if you were to fight her and there were some curious things she did, then remembering her is not difficult. I guess this can be similar to trying to remember what you did yesterday. Sure you did many things, but the ordinary events are all forgotten. Unless something special happens, meeting Koishi would not be memorable.

[Sagus]

Something that suddenly entered my mind and won't leave me alone...

Can Tojiko and Mima possess people? They are vengeful spirits after all...